>>723791140I played this when I was 4All I remember is that the War Cry sounded like they were screaming BEER!
The best genre no one knows about, even how to properly make one.
Four years of age? How far did you get?The game is fine, and still holds up, just know there's no automap unless you use external tools.If you want a challenge run it with just 1 hero, it's doable.
>>723791140How do we feel about Dungeon Master 2?
>>723791605I remember getting to the part where you had to move really fast to get through a load of doors, failing and slamming myself to death
>>723791580In my opinion the genre kind of peaked with Dungeon Master. Not too many Dungeon Blobber captured the same joy I had playing DM 1. Something about it is so unique and well done. It's sad because I've been dying to find a good DM clone lately. I played the DM 2 and somewhat enjoyed it but it was too rished and flawed to capture the same high
>>723791140Play Madou Monogatari Honou no Sotsuenji
ok this is a shot in the dark but:Are here Legend of Grimrock fans that have also played Tower of Mask?I played the ToM demo and it feels very much like LoG, not sure if I want to buy though.Also LoG1>LoG2
>>723791637it's more "cartoony", and there's that one nasty bottleneck once you actually get in the tower, but if you like the first game it's worth a try for sure
>>723791637Rushed and flawed but good if you're looking for some more Dungeon Master gameplay. It's weird because the first half is nothing but combat and the 2nd half is mostly puzzles with the odd enemy or two
How is Chaos Strikes Back?
>>723791140Irrelevant genre without a single good game
>>723792424>OP posting from his phone trying to bump the thread by posting bait.just say "bump" like we used to, faggot
>>723792312CSB is amazing and hard as fuck. It's a Silksong type situation where it started as a DLC (sorry, "expansion disk") so it assumes you're the world champion at the first game before it even begins. Anyone who beat DM should definitely try CSB too - but only those people.
>>723792312Should be renamed to CBT
>>723791918LoG1 was just tighter, 2 just has too much content, I wish they would have made another one, but I remember them stating that costs were higher and sales were lower.>no gog version for tower of maskWhat is with this trend, I would have purchased Blue Prince if it launched on GOG but no, they keep doing this shit, just give me a GOG version I buy this shit day 1.
>try Lands of Lore for the first time>surprisingly fun>try Wizardry 8>feels clunky as fuck
>>723792847>different games from different companies are differentHow strange
How would you make a Legend of Grimrock 3?
>>723792939there is no excuse for a younger game to feel shittier to play
>>723792979Elven women have hairy cunts
>>723792847I find that blobbers suck unless it's full tile based. Lands of Lore was surprisingly good, I wish someone made a new one, and by that I wish I had a good idea for a new one, do you even need a good idea? the story didn't really matter, the game was carried by it's visuals, it's real time gameplay, it's puzzles and it's cool character designs.
>>723793010Those games are barely even in the same genreLoL is an action RPG specifically designed for beginners so it has barely any stats or abilities to worry aboutW8 is an autism simulator where you're literally supposed to spend the first 5 hours just making your charactersApples and door hinges
>>723792312It's an expert challenge.
>>723791918Yeah I played it a couple weeks ago. I didn't like it as much as either Grimrock games, but it was still pretty good. Combat was more involved and the controls were almost like a FPS game hybrid. Kinda hard to describe.I got a bunch of weird framerate drops near the end of the game though which was annoying
>>723792979Just make 2 again but try to balance it somewhat so that there isn't one god race that's infinitely better than the rest (lizardmen, who can get elemental immunity for every element in a game where all the dangerous attacks are elemental)>>723793124>blobbersKill yourself sweetie.
>>723792781>2 just has too much contentI just didn't like how "open world"y it was.This style of first person, tile based movement doesn't mesh well with lots of backtracking and wide open exploration. Also there was just way too much open sky for what I want in a DUNGEON crawler.It's still a pretty good game, LoG1 was just better.
>>723793191Yeah I felt that FPS thing in the demo. How were the puzzles?LoG had some real cool brainscratchers that made you feel like a genious for solving them.
>>723793124The story of Aeon of Sands was so bad that it completely ruined an otherwise competently made game.
>>723793317I only felt mildly clever one time in the entire game. Most of the puzzles were very simple, definitely the weakest part of Tower of Mask for me
>>723792979Scrap the "open world" thing with branching paths, just make one long linear dungeon again with maybe one or two side areas that are well hidden behind riddles. Like on level 8 of the dungeon you should find clues that there's a secret door on Level 4 and how to open it.Take the combat/perk system from 2.And then just make more of the same, really. The formula works and is very far away from being played out since it isn't exactly something like dark souls/metroidvania where everyone and their mother is making games in this style so there is no need yet to reinvent the wheel.
as long as we dont talk about THAT game, made by THAT GUY
>>723793142explains why one is fun and the other is not
i kinda want to make my own Dungeon Crawler, but i really don't know where to start.My retarded ass couldn't even make a floor and ceiling in godot (i tried i swear)
>>723793638spoken like a true sape
Why do I see the Shin Megami Tensei games come up so little in dungeon crawler discussions?I've played a good variety and think they're pretty great, 1-3 that is.
>>723792979Tighten the graphics up on level 3?Well you'd start by removing the semi open world, and go back to having a full dungeon, the dungeon doesn't need to be completely linear like the first game, but the non linearity of the second was just a bit much, someone else already pointed out too, but the world should take place in a dungeon, not above ground.The motif of Grimrock being a prison and having the characters shackled to eachother was great, and the puzzles in the second were also still great, the devs need to reduce complexity in terms of cost and just shit out a new entry.Not that any of this matters, it's been 11 years it's a dead IP.
>>723793842dunnonobody seems to mention Phantasy Star 1 either
>>723793842Because they get entire SMT discussions, shame that they have completely dropped all of that legacy stuff, no more grid based movement, no more first person view, it's all done for, my favorite is of course SMT II.
>>723794108>>723794164I've always meant to ask this because I've wondered if there is some stigma against them.I mean I guess you could argue the first 2 have some broken stuff and maybe not a ton of depth, but SMT III is literally one of the best dungeon crawlers ever made imo and possibly my favorite. I do of course think the Etrian Odyssey series is the better Atlus dungeon crawler overall though
>>723794108Phantasy Star 1 quite frankly does not hold up anymore, and the good Phantasy Star (4) does not have 3D dungeons.
>>723793638Was it really that bad?>>723793762I want to do the same, make something in the Doom engine with grid based movement and pre rendered sprites, but I'm just an artist, I can't code for shit.
>>723791637It was first bigbox game I got as a kid. Still have it.
>>723792312Brutal
>>723794498It is that bad, the dude is literally a conspiracy psycho
I played Wizardry 8, Grimrock 2, MM 6,7,8 what other BLOBBERS should I play?
>>723793762>>723794498I actually have a thread open here right now for this, you might find some info:>>723791679
>>723794642Final Fantasy 7. It belongs in your retarded ass fake genre because all the characters travel inside Cloud's butthole on the world map.
>>723793638which one?
>>723794404I played it for the first time a few years ago and I liked it.I used a fan translation that let you use the original FM music though. The shit they replaced it with for the official English releases kinda suckshere's a comparison: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7MwSs7DpQQhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eoZNL6f7_mI
>>723793673well you know what they say; fun is in brain of the bystander
>>723792682>>723792742>>723793184>>723794561How do-able is it? I want more Dungeon Master after playing the first 2 but I'm worried I won't be able to finish this one or that'll get softlocked somehow. I only played like the first area of CSB and it was crazy hard and it took me like 3 hours of save scumming to truly master it. What am I to expect?
>>723794583I got that part I was just kind of hoping that his insanity would create something so exotic that it's amazing.
>>723791140I had a ton of fun with Undercroft back in the day after Jagex bought it to slap a Runescape advertisement to the front, I remember playing through it multiple times, my two favorite guys were one who transformed into a werebeast and tore enemies to bits and a guy who summoned an angel to smite his foes. Iirc you could get a busted ring in the barrels in the first town if you were lucky, good times
Why are there so many dungeon crawler threads lately is a schizo doing this
>>723795094kinda? it's like, the pottential to be the greatest Dungeon Crawler of all time, limited to the mind of a autistic freak. Certainly a exotic expirience, not a good onei speak as someone who played 250hs, but i'll let you make your own conclusions about grimoire heralds of the winged exemplar
>>723795132It's clearly not just one schizo or else there would barely be anyone replying in the thread
The Quest sucks
>>723791918> chink chong ding dong bing bongNo thanks.
Isn't the genre kinda dead? There's barely any new games coming out, and the ones that do come out are either the same safe formulaic stuff we've seen for decades or just shit.
>>723795630that's why i want to make my own DC, to satisfy my own nigga needs
>>723795549>newfags can't even get their racism straightJaps aren't chinks, retard.
>>723795969arr rook same actually
>>723795969that's what they say but they look identical and they stole culture from them
I'll never understand villains that get their mcguffins from adventurers who just went through a massive amount of shit and then betray them instead of paying them and letting them fuck off (or even just hiring them instead).Like these guys just went dungeon crawling and have a now huge arsenal of garbage they could potentially kill you with on top of the experience gains they made, and you decide to try to backstab them.
>>723791140for me it's 2D sprites over 3D background
>>723796435fuck that looks awesome
>>723796435Dorohedoro meets final fantasy
>>723796435What's this?
>>723792506He's not the OP, I am!
any upcoming games in the genre? Why is it so dead
>>723794361Well SMT3 isn't a First person grid based dungeon crawler, which is what the thread is theoretically about despite the fights over the genre name. Old SMT games are but no one in the west played them when they were new so no waxing nostalgic for them.
>>723794753You sound upset.
>>723795132God forbid we a thread that's not a thinly veiled excuse to image dump.
>>723798537>Old SMT games are but no one in the west played them when they were new so no waxing nostalgic for them.What about Strange Journey?
>>723795094Before you can judge if it is or not, you have to figure out the comically unintuitive UI. It was years later that the manual came out, too, so keep that in mind.
wish Legends of Lore had a remaster
>>723798502In general the concept of dungeon crawling is dead for multiple reasons:- People are bored of megadungeons and would rather have an open world with multiple small dungeons in them- Attrition play is no longer popular within the RPG space, games like SMT V/ Baldur's Gate 3 /Elden Ring are all play at your own pace games. Death of random battles in JRPGs is also a huge contributor as losing that element of unpredictability makes it much harder for dungeons to be scary. - Rise of Soulslike and King's Field like means you can get the dungeon crawling experience in a more exciting package.- It takes more skill to make a robust RPG system for a dungeon crawler than for a more causal, narrative driven RPG. And the amount of people who can make these systems are getting less and less.
>>723798502Where do you go after Legend of Grimrock 1 & 2?
>>723799173the games are not modern enough. The only good drpg i've seen do anything new is a dam gacha.
>>723798097google image search says it's Cinnabar Nights
>>723798502It's not notable enough for new games to be advertised much in advance. The fabled Etrien Oddysey Next Stage is theoretically releasing at some point between now and the sun blowing up, but other than that the only one I can think of is Algolemeth, which is a game where you program a team of automated dungeon crawling golems.
>>723800185>the best the genre can offer nowadays is an autobattlerGrim.>>723799331What's "new" about it other than gachashit? How is it "good"?
>>723794108i've been playing the gamecube PSO lately if that counts as a dungeon crawler it's fun but kind of slow, i play at 150% speed usually
>>723800576everything including party members and your pov attacks have animations. Auto mapping, great main quest, all the old wiz spells, debuffs work. It will suck you in if you like the genre.
Replaying Valbrace in UFO 50 and having a blast. Punch Out combat on top of traditional dungeon crawling is great. It helps that I already have hand-drawn maps and the couple of navigation spells memorized to make this go quicker
>>723800932Nothing about it is really "new" though.
>>723801219okay then offer me some alternatives. Oh wait, you can't.
>>723801271When was it about alternatives? You said it did something new, and it didn't.
>>723800185>>723800576>grimmore like great. How am I only now hearing about this? I'm a huge fan of both dungeon crawlers and programming games (mostly zachtronics') so it feels like this game was made specifically for me
>>723800761It doesn't count.
>>723801383full 3d is new.
>>723802068Only in terms of party members actually existing as models, but in the grand scheme of things it's just presentation that does nothing for the gameplay.
>>723800976Valbrace's combat is based more on Crossed Swords than Punch-Out. If you want a dungeon brawler with actual Punch-Out style combat then you should play Fight Knight. It's really good, might even be in my top 10
I actually like walking around dungeons. Fuck open fields.
>>723802461whatever you're looking for doesn't exist. I suggest you make it yourself.
>>723802461Wouldn't that be outright a JRPG.
M&M 1-5. If picking one, World of Xeen should be the one to try out? I've played mandate of heaven and it was pretty gud
>>723805172Anything from 3 or above are pretty easy to get into. I really like 1 & 2, but the way they're structured requires a bit more time commitment.
>>723802623Look neat, but I had never even heard of it before. It continues to absolutely shocking the sheer volume of games out there, so many not only could you never play them all but also you'll never even hear about all of them either. The market really is oversaturated.If a new indie Dungeon Crawler did come out, how would you even know?
>gachatrannies trying to convince genre regulars to play their shit game because it has character models>they're convinced it's revolutionary because it has higher presentation values than the games that they've only seen screenshots of and never played anywaysYou guys (gatchatrannies) are worse than vegans. Literally play other games in the genre before coming into these threads speaking with misplaced confidence.
>>723805953Fight Knight got a lot of threads when it came out. Even without, there are a few decent crawlers that have been coming out the past 3-5 years. You have to look for what you're interested instead of waiting them to blow up in the mainstream (they won't) for the mongloids on /v/ to make anything other than FOTM, gacha, steam charts, and porn threads. You have to do your own research--there are good games out there if you look for them.
>>723806091I got into Daphne BECAUSE of these threads nigger.
what are some non blobber dungeon crawlers like Monomyth?
Has anyone played Mime for the PC-98?I tried it some time ago, but the language barrier makes it kind of a pain in the ass to go through. I got up (or down?) to level 4, then I got stumpedI'm not sure if I missed a way to get the final party member or I'm supposed to talk to the NPCs in a correct order/pick the right optionsThere's very little footage of the game so I couldn't just do follow someone else's footsteps to get past that point either
>>723807494Lunacid
I finished Lands of Lore last night. Good experience although a little frustrating, couldn't find one key I needed in the mines for a good hour or so. Otherwise thumbs up.
>>723806851Probably because of them coming en masse and glaze the shit out of each other's posts. Then people that want to talk about other crawlers get chased out of the thread when these same posters are like "that game looks like ass, you should play Daphne" they circlejerk and pretend that the image dumping, waifuposting, and bannertalk was the original intent of the thread.
>>723808334>unironic xe/xer pronounsno thanks
>>723794642Eye of the Beholder 1-3.Dungeon Master 1-2
>>723808551The artsyle and pronouns shit is what it is, but it's a very competent game if you like dungeon crawling and the game doesn't preach to you or make tranny politishit part of its narrative. You'll miss out on some great games with that mindset.
play Anvil of Dawn too
>>723808491No, you guys reccomended me Tales of the Forsaken Land and that lead me to trying out Daphne because it had similar gameplay.
>>723795132It's a group effort of blobbers. Discord clique organizing drive by raids on /v/.
>increase of dungeon crawler threads latelyyippee i'm all for it
>>723809008Meds
Dungeon Master on Amiga or DOS?
the Ishar trilogy is good fun too. like most of the old crawlers though, have a manual/hintbook/map at the ready if you get stuck. things can be obtuse
>>723809261Dos with adlib/soundblaster. Amiga is good but DOS just edges it for me. art is a bit better on Amiga but otherwise fine
>>723809261>>723809346wait my comment was for DM2.This is good too, modern port that has 1, 2 and CSB.http://www.ragingmole.com/RTC/
What do you consider the best features of a Dungeon Crawler? Could a hypothetical best Dungeon Crawler be created by combining the best features of many different series?
>>723807494Arx FatalisDread DelusionHand of DoomFlyKnightQueen's Domain>>723808713iirc none of the characters even use your pronouns, that selection screen was only added to the game to the game because the dev thought it was funny which is kinda based if you ask me
>>723791918>>723792781LoG2 > LoG1First game was fun, but the second one I love, you feel like your traveling trough an entire word with varying biomes. Because it's not linear, it also has more replay value. I get why people like LoG1 more, but to me LoG2 is like 5 LoG1's in a single package. LoG2 is way harder so maybe that is one of the reasons.
>>723809494top 2 best features for me definitely have to be:1. dungeons 2. crawling
>>723809346>>723809465I'm going to emulate it. Usually for such old games it's the Amiga version that wins over DOS with the sound and graphics, but I'll check out both.It's important to note that when it comes to the DOS version of Dungeon Master 2 you need to patch the game with a soundcard fix otherwise you won't have sound effects playing, only music.
Blobber is our word, but you can say blobba
>>723809494Imo, best dungeon crawler would be Wizardy 6 that plays like Wizardry 8 but the battles are 10x faster. Also, the level progression would make sense and the puzzles are made by the LoG guys.
>>723809736>you need to patch the gameran it fine here with no sound issues, dosbox staging
>>723809519Dread Delusion is open world slop
>>723809658crawl on the dungeon floor and fight like a baby. can you do that for me? it would be so beautyful
>>723809852I did a fresh install of DM2 and had to use the fix.
>no mention of Elvira, Waxworks or Abandoned Placesfor shame
>>723810126Waxworks is kind of dogshit even for the time. Literally only worth playing for the death animation. Which are now on youtube
>>723810126I'm actually playing Elvira during October.
>>723810639very good, enjoy!
keep an eye on this alsohttps://store.steampowered.com/app/2789020/Hibernaculum/
Wizardry 8 aged like shit
Hired Guns baby
https://store.steampowered.com/app/2958790/Cyclopean_The_Great_Abyss/thoughts?
>>723811765a bit of a fuckin' eyesore but otherwise neat
MM7 has too many fucking enemies thrown at you it feels like fantasy Serious Sam
>>723812161I think it looks cool
Which games have sourceports to make them more accessible?
>>723811414Don't you control and take care of 4 different people in real time? Isn't this a bit too much?
>>723812535Dungeon Master has a sourceport but I forget what it's called.Eye of the Beholder 1 and 2 work in ScummVM which is easier than using dosbox.the Bard's Tale Trilogy has a PC port with added features like an automap, you can't switch back to the old graphics though and the new ones are very mediocre looking unfortunately
>>723812602eh it's not too bad. you're not always in combat so you can take your time. you could play it back in the day with 2 players! so you controlled 2 people each. great times
>>723812778>easier than using dosboxit's not THAT hard to use. plus you can use All Seeing Eye with the 3 games that has an automap which really helps. I don't think you can do that with the scummvm version, but worth a check.
>>723812778oh I also forgot to mention System Shock Enhanced Edition (not the shitty remake). Adds mouselook and more resolution options so it's definitely the best way to play the first game. It's a dungeon crawler in space so it counts. The sequel isn't really a dungeon crawler though
I just want a Lands of Lore remaster
>>723812997RIP Westwood, my beloved.
if you had to introduce someone to the genre which game would you pick? Hard mode: no grimrock
>>723802623>>723806572This is gonna be a bit off topic but I have been somewhat intrigued by the story behind this game and its dev. Anyone correct me if I'm wrong but this was apparently made by someone from here, yes? All I heard last was the guy got fucked over or something but its been YEARs since I last heard about it.
>Finally got my windows emulator to not be complete dogshit on my retroid because I want to play some older Japanese wizardry clones >font is completely broken even if I install it.I refuse to get a god damn deck and I hate this android fluff. I wish my DS was strong enough for emulation sometimes.>>723810335This.Also for whatever reason the inputing is leggy as all hell. The mines and the mobsters were a bit frustrating. >>723806572Thanks for the FK recommendation.I actually saw your pic rel on some youtube dudes list and I was tempted so i might bite. I think it got a sequel too(?). I wish the guy actually went back to dungeon crawlers instead of "I'll play this Japanese game for you" shit.
>>723813489Fight Knight? Yeah some derranged bitch tried to cancel him because "He used psychic powers to make bird attack [her]". Honest to god that's what she said, and it almost worked till what she was actually saying got spread around enough. Same bitch who effectively killed Jack and Casey too, apparently. That dev was too nice to realise he was working with a psycho and blamed himself at the cost of the game.
>>723814365>I refuse to get a god damn deck and I hate this android fluff.wwwwwwwwwwwww
>>723814365Cheating yourself. Deck is cheaper than most umpcs and I haven't had any trouble with dosbox or most other crawlers that I want to play steam or not. You let /v/ third worlders scam you out of a good time.
>>723791832I didWonder if there's anything else nice like it
>>723814492>blamed himself at the cost of the gameDamn that's sad. I remember seeing posts of the guy talking about how he wanted to make this game for a long time now and it always felt a bit bittersweet to see while the game did eventually get made it just really went under the rader and guy somewhat went off the deep end.
>>723815528is that the puyo girl
>>723815982Puyo is a spinoff of Madou Monogatari, which is a dungeon crawler series with the gimmick of never giving numbers for anything (except money). Mana is represented by how tired Arale looks, Health is described based on how she feels and how the enemy looks, EXP is represented by dots filling in around the UI, etc.
>>723795041CSB is in "tough but fair" category. Everything is hard. Enemies are hard, puzzles are hard, navigation is hard. Unlike DM which was mostly linear, CSB sprawls in all directions and holds nothing back. But with persistence it's completely beatable.There's also a built-in hint system in the game if you get really stuck (on the Utilities disk, "consult the oracle").
>>723813349Wizardry: Labyrinth Of Lost SoulsVery bland, but very good, if they like it they will be interested in trying out other games like it.
>>723811414>>723811256>>723810126>>723811002These look interesting and different because they're not the typical fantasy setting.How much is the setting part of the appeal for games like this?
>>723817789initially a large part of the appeal, I would say. However if the gameplay or story are shit, interest quickly dries up. >>723793357case in point.it's all subjective though. just play what you like and stick with what you enjoy.
>>723817789Evidently not much, since most seem to be happy with the same old stone walls and swords. It's not like there's a crowd to stand out from so a unique setting usually only comes about because the devs want to make that setting. It can draw the eye if you're a rare scifi crawler, or you've got a non-medivial fantasy, but ultimately simply being a DRPG in the modern day is enough to get the attention of DRPG fans. We're just a bit desperate. After that you have to rely on game quality.
Kowloon is still the best for my money.
>>723820753Impreasive how it's like the 7th entry in a series i didn't even know existed.
>>723791918tower of mask was neat. it tackled the challenge of trying to modernize blobber movement. did a decent shake at it too.
>>723813349first ones I played were Dungeon Master and Eye of the Beholder
>>723791918I liked it. And way more than Vaporum.But I think that guns did not belong here, Not just thematically but mechanically as well. They do too much dmg, there's too much ammo and with since the game designed with a free aim and not just 4 side like LoG guns triviliazed fights way too much. Guns and staffs.I removed 90% of final boss' health without even approaching it.He should have made the game without guns and rebalanced stuffs so they're just as breakable as every other weapon and can be found only in secrets.
>>723823627but they aged like shit
>>723824123skill issue
>>723813349I have yet to play it but Bard's Tale IV seems rather modern in terms of audience appeal with fancy graphics and quirky talkative characters.
I wish I could fully enjoy Fight Knight but I lost the will to play it once I reached the swamp level. If I had to guess it's random encounter nature of enemies that turned me off.
i shill it every time grimrock is brought up but try the trio of custom maps made by that one giga autist in the grimrock 2 community hub. they are pretty high content and quality. if you start at the first, be aware that its rougher in the sense that some of its mechanics and puzzles dont get presented well or explained at all. he sorta gets better by each adventure pack.
operencia is a surprisingly good modern one.
>>723824648it has mostly positive on steam where even AI ridden slop has very positive, not a good look
>>723791140Favourite Dungeon Crawler enemy?for me its iron crab
>>723824730its a solid game. has some interesting puzzle mechanics. the combat balance and build variety is well done. hard to really say anything bad about it other than one puzzle in the final level and one fucklong attack animation a common enemy has in a middle level. its got a weird dreamworks face aesthetic too but its mostly unintrusive.
what do we think about Legend of Amberland sisters?
>>723824648I pirated it like two weeks ago and couldn't stomach constant yapping with subpar voice acting, especially the woman that is supposed to be the mc guy's wife. The guy is at least trying to sound excited and interested in his character, the woman is just bored and halfasses 50% of her lines.So I dropped it near the demon pit at the beginning.
>>723825143Interested in /v/'s opinion as well.I find visuals charming but demo bored me. So wonder if it's worth to have patience with it.
>>723825324its probably for the best. it mellows out by the midpoint but at the final boss, it skyrockets as you meet the super cool edge dark dragon vampire korean boy band villain 10 mins before the end of the game where his intentions are like someone speed reading their deviantart oc's bio then ends on a cliffhanger where kpop man is banished to the super dark evil realm where he meets the TRUE evil for the sequel thats never going to happen.
>>723825871its shit
>>723826835How so? Isn't it just M&M for nostalgiafags?
>>723812952I don't know why they don't update the gog versions of the gold box games, because the steam copies have ASE and GBC already included and have launchers for bringing up the manuals and hintbooks. It's nothing huge but I assume it's the same company selling them and including that is nice
>>723820753this was one of a kind for me
Hypothetically if someone were to make a roguelite dungeon crawler what would you like to see in it?
>BIND>BIND>BIND>BIND>BIND>try to fuse for elementals>slime>consult the spreadsheet>pay out sign-on bonuses like you're a college football recruiter>consult the spreadsheet
anyone played phantasy star 1? hows it?
>>723791580How do you properly make one? I'm genuinely curious. The genre seems pretty dead and I've been wondering what's the actual cause. Even when there's some relatively high effort game release in the genre it doesn't sell very well.
>>723829264The idea of making a roguelite dungeon crawler is a bit controversial in itself. People like their twisty little passages, all alike to be handmade. Starcrawlers caught some flack for that even though they have handmade main story missions alongside the procgen sidequest dungeons.
>>723793762>>723794498I don't know if there's an engine that caters to DRPGs but Unity is pretty easy to pick up. Though you'd want to learn programming.Something to maybe get started withhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTSWm1RsvzY
>>723795132>people talking about video games in /v/oh heavens no!
>>723800932Shining Holy Ark had animations way back. Though it is a bit surprising it took this long to see that done again. The genre has slipped into this sort of budget sphere where the people still making them are partly making them because they can cheap on the visuals.
>>723829598I played it a few years ago and I liked it (I played the fan translation by SMS Power because it lets you use the japanese soundtrack)I thought it was pretty good. It's the only Phantasy Star game besides 4 that I didn't hate playing. But don't expect it to play like a modern rpg or anything
>>723831523I pirated the switch version so am going to try it out tomorrow, thanks non
>>723825143The visuals kill it for me. I don't want cartoony style in my crawler.
>>723830765Honestly if it's a square grid you can procgen it quite easily. Of course if you want a focus on puzzles then handmade would be better but imo the puzzles were never that good.
>Features:>Allies you can't trust
>>723829264Have you played Dungeon Hack?
>>723795132I have zero proof but my suspicion is some indie dev is making them and sneakily recommending their game in each one
>>723833342I actually haven't but I am aware of it. It's more like a proper roguelike. I've been thinking what could be done with the first person grid based dungeon crawler formula mixing into it some roguelite ideas to possibly appeal to the roguelite audience. Sort of an attempt to make the formula more appealing to the modern gamer.
only the best one
>>723834059Dude not cool you made me coom
>>723831178How do people feel about traps in dungeons?
>>723834059WHICH GAME JESUS CHRIST
>>723834216They are not gay.
I miss ps2 smt when it was a dungeon crawler. Nothing quite scratches that itch
>>723834216They can be really annoying if there's too many of them. But sometimes being extra cautious and/or managing your health in an area with an overabundance of traps can be an interesting puzzle in itself
>>723834297Words Worth
>>723834402I never played the 3D SMT games but I liked the old ones. The dungeons were cool and they weren't too grindy unlike Strange Journey (only newer one I've played). There was a snes SMT inspired Toohoo game that came out a couple years ago that I've been meaning to play
>>723812952believe it or not I beat eotb without a map and I didn't draw my own either
>>723825143I played the first one about a month back. Would recommend playing it, at least try before you buy. I ran a somewhat minmax'd build so there was little overall difficulty after about 35% of the way through and there were a shitload of places to explore if that's your thing (I can't complain).
I really should play the PS1 port of Ultima Underworld.
>massively improves on the entire genre while remaining true to its core>forgotten
>>723810126for me, it's Black Crypt by Raven Software
>>723809269Which emulator are you playing them in?
>>723837117damn dude, very nice. all 3? I'm going start playing them soon. Hear great things about 1 and 2 but everyone seems to shun 3. Thoughts?
>>723840209my man. great mention>>723840892winuae or you can go GOG
>>723839749decent story and wall breaking aside the game was pretty shit
>>723800185Is it any good? Programming dungeon crawler sounds like a weird enough concept I'd be willing to poke my head into it.
>>723832815that would be a genuine selling point in most modern rpgs
>>723841735>winuaeThanks. I guess the Amiga version is better as often used to be the case. I don't remember PC version very fondly.
>>723791637>dungeon master
>>723798502It's a beloved genre by those who like it, which guarantees sales to those people BUT those same people are famously conservative gameplay wise. The hardcore players don't want QOL features, they'll even be upset if they're in and optional. Conversely, a pure Wizardry like needs a lot of compensating factors to make them worthwhile to newbies if they're going to have the classic difficulties
>>723841659nah I only played the first one like a decade ago. I never played dungeon master 2 either. I was thinking of replaying them and playing the ones I skipped right after I finish playing the bard's tale games
>>723843051wizardry is a shit series
>>723843237>t. Never even got the blue ribbon
>>723795132VIDEO GAMESOn my vidya boardHow dare they
i had this for ps2 and liked it :)
>>723843237/wizardry/ is a shit series, into the dregs it goes, I'm a big bard, for thou.
i WANT to look into wizardry, ultima 4 and maybe etrian odysseybut i don't know which release of each is the best to play
luv me might and magicluv me grimrockh8 wizardry clunky piece of shit where you have to spend 3h in character creation alone
>>723844264Labyrinth of Lost Souls is about as approachable as Wizardry gets. Main things to note is that certain classes require certain alignments and good and evil characters can't be in the same party. On character creation you get a random amount of bonus points. The value has a stupidly large range so you wanna roll for a bit to get a decent amount.
>>723844352If you can't get a 20+ roll in five minutes or less, you're a lucklet of baffling proportions, anon.
>>723845182are there any mods for it that always make it roll the highest bonus points, but then allow you to choose how many to take?
>>723843237Thanks for your opinion
>>723807494>MonomythThe genre needs more hyper violence. Good thing those devs realized this.
>>723844264>wizardrydigital eclipse remakedon't let the troognards tell you anything else>Ultima 4probably xu4, even though I still prefer the original sprites>etrian odysseynever played it but I'd assume emulation
>>723845856>never played it but I'd assume emulationgot 1-3hd on steam from a sale but don't know if it's good as is or better in the originalare any of the other ultima games any good? i gravitated to 4 cause it looked like the most open-ended, "make your own story" kind of title in the series
Why did I have to like the Wizardry gacha, man? Its pretty good but the gacha aspects of it are so bad
>>723811414the music in Hired Guns is so good
>>723846317>are any of the other ultima games any good?>U1-3skip>U4xu4>U5Dungeon Siege: Lazarus mod/total conversionI never found a good source port for the original that would restore the music>U6Nuvie source port>U7Exult source port>U8Pentagram source port, even though last time I tried it had some debug shit turned on>U9Pretty much runs out of the box. Question is if you really want that (it's a pretty game tho and the bugs can make for a couple good laffs)In these versions the ranking is probablyU7 > U5 > U6 > U4 > U8 > U9In their original version itsU7 > U5 > U4 > U6 > U9 > U8as far as open worldiness goes U7 is probably the best. Nuvie is solid, but Lazarus probably beats it
>>723842203I can't tell you how good it is, it's not out yet
>>723844264Play Etrian Odyssey starting from the first one. Going back to the first after mapping quality of life improvements kind of sucks. It's probably re-release transfered quality of life butI don't know what other changes it would have. Just emulate the originals you didn't beat the game.
>>723794164What are the protips for 2? Go full agility but don't take any stat over 30, and you need 10 mag for some door.
>>723799173>People are bored of megadungeons and would rather have an open world with multiple small dungeons in themFucking citation needed. SMT5 was the worst one by far. Absolutely hated by all. The quality graphics really hurt demon variety which could be excused if they were used and added to in future games but that hasn't happened.The platforming collectathon was complete aids compared to actual useful treasure like equipment.
>>723838583God, the PS1's graphics were so shit.
>>723847345I only played the first Etrian Odyssey and I hated it for a variety of reasons that I've forgotten. But I heard the remasters fixed them. So I think he should play the remaster instead because fuck the original
>>723846478gacha not even once
>>723849645Original is missing really basic mapping stuff like colors to indicate damage tiles, differentiating the gathering node types, marking hidden passages. You can't move sideways either.
>>723849645The remaster PROBABLY didn't fix what you were upset about, there were some small balamce tweaks such as respecs costing 5 levels instead of 10, but for the most part it's the same game with a better mapping system. What really fixes the issues people have eith EO1 is EO3
>>723812952Using a map or mapping tool in Eye of the Beholder removes all challenge from the game.
>>723852176graph paper is a mapping tool thoughbeit
>>723833774I can only think of this as a good thing.
>>723799331I started playing recently and I really like the dungeon crawling, but the intersection of hardcore gameplay mechanics with gacha monetization leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
>>723852674Yes. If you can't memorize the dungeon you're a casuallmao
>>723853304yeah, the gacha part is fucking greedy as shit, but it does seem to be working for them.imo as long as the actual game part continues to be as fun as it is for a F2P player, i'm happy with it even if they scam the fuck out of japanese salarymen playing this.
>>723853459But memorization is a mapping tool too thoughevertheless.Come talk to me once you've beaten the game while afflicted with topographical agnosia, until then you'are simply a casual gamer.
>>723853304>>723853573Would you be willing to spend $40 on a full version of Wizardry Daphne once it was complete, if they removed all the gacha and Devuno and just made it a standalone complete version?I haven't been interested in installing a spyware rootkit onto my computer and so haven't played the Steam version, but the game looks really nice with the dynamic character shots during combat. And some walking sections, apparently. I'm curious how the dungeon bit holds up when it's not just pushing you to play every day for gacha rewards.
>>723792312>Stamm with a swordAbsolute heresy
>>723853743Sorry but if you aren't gaming with late-stage dementia then you're playing on easy mode.
Has anyone tried Path of the Abyss? I see complaints about Machine Translation but I can get past that
>>723853759i'd say i do enjoy playing Daphne even without the concept of a gacha reward hanging over my head, considering i just spent four days just advancing the story and grinding shit from the (now permanent so i didn't actually have to do it) first event, and i actually really like the artstyle and the story.the real problem are that the game is still fucking buggy as shit one year in, this isn't like other gachas, this is pure japanese code folded 1 thousand times, you WILL see this game crash or start loading like crazy at some point.also on the gacha side, you can absolutely enjoy the game with just the normal characters as the main grind of this game is equipment, but the Legendaries do have very clear advantages, and as of now none of the post-launch legendaries have been added to the regular pool, so the only way to get them is through the greedy, salaryman-eating gacha, or the special free gacha stuff we got recently for the anniversary.
do you guys recommend Demon Gaze by Experience Inc.?it's the only one of theirs that i haven't heard anyone talking about
>>723853759Yeah obviously but that wont happen, thats what I thought the steam version was going to be
>>723856939Steam was always going to be the gacha just on PC. They aren't going to make a better version you can just buy for $40, when the gacha version is asking $60 for 10 pulls.We have seen Mega Man X Dive and some other gachas transition to an offline version for a purchase price, so people could continue (or at least start over and play) and give more money without paying for the server overhead anymore. I don't think it's that common, but the Daphne devs seemed interested in making a game (using the gacha method to pay for it) so I could hope that they'd be interested in making it available even after server shutoff.
I have a memory of a dungeon crawler game (might have been one of the dungeon master games?) with a skeleton that says I-I G-GOT Y-YOU in a digitized voice when you die. Anyone remember what is it?
>>723791140I wish they translated some japan only ones already
>>723859065I wish they translated Busin Zero. I think someone wrote a guide for it, but I doubt it'll ever get a full patch.
>>723856602it's alright
>>723859065Aren't there like an actual uckton of japanese-only Wizardry games?
How big is too big
>>723859695Wizardry has been a japanese series longer than it's been an american one, and the vast majority of the games made in that time are JP only. That's not even counting the JP only ports of the sirtech games
>>723859838>grimrock custom campaignsAre any of them good?
>>723810126Elvira had better be about the mistress of the dark. I'm warning you.
>>723859695Yes. And a lot of them are really cool looking PS2 games.
>>723859695There's at least sixteen JP Wizardry games that I know of, divided among the Gaiden, Empire, and Busin labels. Most of them have gotten translations over the years, though there's still some holdouts. And that's not even counting the innumerable knockoffs.
>>723810126>>723859938Alright, it was actually an Elvira themed dungeon crawler. I did not expect this outcome.
>>723859695They had an MMO for a little while - one with actual permadeath. Apparently there's a fan project to try and make a private server, but I have no idea if anything will come of it.
>>723794505It was my first game ever and also first big box. Naturally my mom threw it away. Bought it anew years later. >>723791637Do you have any idea how often I mentioned this game on here and have not gotten a single reply so far? Naturally this being my first game ever, I'm biased, but I love it to death. First thing I install on every new device. Great on steam deck btw. I love the atmosphere, music and small things like lightning being able to hit a tree or your group.
>>723853759Well, the daily thing is about 2 minutes and gives lots of xp which is hard to come by. As for the game's merits, there are quite a few anons in the general with over 1k hours of manual grinding. It's easy to burn out but it's also easy to fall in.
>>723859695Only like 10
>>723809736>>723809852>>723810024You have to install gravis ultrasound. It's been this way forever and will always be, otherwise you get a sub-par experience. The difference is ridiculous
>>723859896That one is Final Adventure. Positive experience overall so far but it does have some new systems that might not to everyone's liking. Better balanced overall. Guns are better, alchemist is gone (but you do have an item with similar functionality anyway) and it's not easy to become immune to elements. Food management is more important. You need to cook them or you get diseased/poisoned. This is pretty brutal in the early game. Puzzles are more on the logical side and being perceptive of the environment (e.g. notice a hidden pressure plate far away that you can throw a rock on) instead of checking every wall for a button (these still exist but they are rarer and you also have a skill that highlights them but it's not worth it). Then you have mining (which increases character's hunger) and sapping (clearing cave-in with fire bombs). Mod also has some small "towns" that you can go to and trade shit but the interaction is pretty barebone though. I like that the ratlings in this mod are somewhat similar to the ones in Wiz 8 where they can act like thugs and use fucking dollars to trade with you. The maps are very vertical by themselves too, not just simply stacking 2-3 maps on top of each layer. This actually makes the map screen pretty useless to use in some levels. The only real bad thing for me is how some "traps" feel pretty cheap. There's one for example, forces you to step on a pressure plate which triggers a fireball trap on one end of the hallway so your option is pretty much running to the other side to progress and when you run to that end, the door behind you closes to block the fireball but the room is full of skeletons that can murder you quick at low level and there are spike traps in the room which makes it near impossible to tile dance. I get that this is supposed to be a "go explore somewhere else until you get stronger" but damn it still feels cheap.
>>723791140if you remember this song, I appreciate you. https://youtu.be/liqZkanz4K0?si=pUEV6sm6CpESpfey
>>723861087based ukranian autist, I played all his mods. 127 hours in grimrock 2 and probably like 90 of those are just from his stuff
>>723860259It's actually more of a point and click but details. Waxworks is a sequel to her game but they didn't get the licence to use her again. Elvira was everywhere back in the day, she even had 3 diffrent pinball machines.
>>723793010>there is no excuse for a younger game, that was made over 20 years ago, to feel shittier to playFTFY because all modern games feel shittier to play than older ones.>>723853759Yes I would. The gacha is 100% the reason I stopped playing it.
>>723831178This game might have been good if it wasn't one that was made to look like shit on purpose.
>>723791140Remember Stonekeep?
>>723830765>even though they have handmade main story missionsThat's not true. At least half of main quest levels were procgenned as well, it's just that they were saved afterwards by the dev. There are way too blatant artifacts of generation to ignore them and pretend like it was all handmade. Artifacts such as completely empty 1 tile rooms.
>>723861087theres alot more "locked in a room with enemies pouring in" situations in this game so that might be a bit rougher but the puzzles are very fun with some autism tier mixed in.
>>723798537Funnily enough, new game + lets you play the dungeons in first person with as close to the super famicom feel as they could manage. It's definitely clunky, but neat
>>723798502There are plenty. Like 4 at least that I'm personally anticipating.
any recc for one without too complicated class setup?
>>723865589turn based or real time?
>>723865589Potato flowers
>>723865835turnbased
>>723865589I've found Paper Sorcerer to be rather easy building wise and I'm a self-admitted buildlet. Basically every character that you'll meet and can get into your party has a set class that can be later upgraded to one of two different options. Mage into battlemage or pure mage for example.
>page 10
>>723865589A lot of them aren't too complicated. Most don't have class switching and a lot don't necessarily benefit from class switching. Just as long as their isn't a huge decision skill tree (i.e. not Etrian Odyssey) you should be fine.I've mostly been going thru older ones and more unusual concepts, so I don't have a title for you. I guess Cryptmaster might qualify if you're good with words. I'm not sure how complicated the Legend of Grimrock games are with class setup, especially since you're mostly moving around and clicking on attack icons.
>>723823802>there's gunsok just bought it, fucking based
>>723791637I remember it playing like a flat out action game. You are supposed to be flying around like it's stepwise Doom. I've heard Chaos Strikes Back is like that too but I never played it.
>>723809603I didn't find LoG2 any harder than 1 but I played them back to back in like 2 weeks so maybe I was just in the "zone".
>>723865589Might and Magic 1-5 always had default parties you had to actively decide to kick out if you wanted to do character creation.
>>723868882Same, I would even say that LoG1 is harder due to your unfamiliarity with its puzzles logic and combat.Yeah, in LoG2 enemies are faster and "dancing" around them is harder but at this point I as a player is experienced in combat so it can be considered some sort of meta autoleveling - the game progressed along with the player.
>>723791140Thoughts on this?I played the DS version but the game was actually broken and trivially easy due to one very simple exploit.How is the GBA version?
>>723795969They are literal diaspora. Anime isn't real. Get rekt faggot.
>>723829440I think I played like 5 megami tensei games before I really understood what I was looking at with fusion charts.
>>723809165Yes please. You got any of those pink ones?
>>723862638I will now become an Elviracore gamer
>>723869023Also in LoG2 you kinda get more options with the perks and I remember some items/weapons/armor having a profound impact on your combat capabilities. But I suppose party composition and the order in which you explore makes a big difference as well.
>>723859065>>723859695Post some untranslated gems.t. moon speaker
Opinions on this?https://store.steampowered.com/app/2332240/Beyond_Shadowgate/I like the way it looks. So I'm curious if it's worth the try.
>>723869083What is this ESL retard trying to say here? Can a brown person help?
>>723794404I beat it for the first time this year and thought it was really good......
>>723869221Also note there are TWO dungeon crawlers to play. Elvira: Mistress of the Dark and its sequel, Elvira II: The Jaws of Cerberus!
>>723869427It's really not a dungeon crawler in this sense, it's an adventure game
I want to enjoy Grimrock but tile dancing is just so fucking ass.
>Game comes with grognard modehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIXedqHyWNYhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGJOAlXFkBE
>>723870705>Lookhuh?what does look do?
>>723870759I guess something like "analyze and spot enemy weaknesses"
>>723870759examine the enemy
Play Undercroft: https://www.rakeingrass.com/games/undercroft/
>>723795132I've been playing all EO games recently so it's kind of nice to be able to discuss them
>>723869427This had a Kickstarter and a demo, if you want to check it out. It looks pretty good, but it's not so much a dungeon crawler as much as a point-and-click from the first person perspective.>https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/zojoi/beyond-shadowgateScroll down to the GAME DEMO spot for the demo download. It's still available.>https://grahfmetal.itch.io/Here's the guy who worked as the main programmer for Beyond Shadowgate. They have two of their own, similar games they made before they worked on it: Infested, and Spectacle. Check them out and the demo if you want to know what Beyond Shadowgate plays like, altho Beyond Shadowgate has some timed encounters (like in the demo) so it isn't all passive.
should I give Untold story mode a go?I was thinking of doing story mode until final boss>NG+ classic mode for post-game
>>723870918>>723870936Do people like these mechanics? aka wasting turns to get more info on the enemy but you only ever need to do it like once because from then on you know so even on a new playthrough you will never use it again.
>>723871750It's a pre-battle option.
>>723871750yesway better than having to look them up, even more so for hard enemies that you might lose against first time without said knowledge
>>723871750Definitely tot me.
>>723871623The party is pretty cookie cutter but nothing wrong with it. Personally prefer a custom party but I also genuinely think highlander is one of the more fun party members so I'd go for it if you've never had one in your party before
>>723871821ok that's fine then, I thought it would be like the JRPG "analyse" skill that some characters get in older JRPGs like Final Fantasy or Chrono Trigger>>723871834Why would the alternative be to look them up online? The reasonable alternative is to provide this info to the player either for free or after having defeated a few monsters. An auto updating beastiary that gets more granular the more often you fight an enemy is the best solution for me personally.
>>723794785Taking a wild guess here, but I assume anon is talking about Grimoire.
>>7238051723 is the perfect oM&M kickstart experience for me.Like the other anon said, Xeen has almost too much content for a beginner.
>>723872634It’s not that bad if you don’t go to the Darkside before finishing Clouds.
>>723872479>Why would the alternative be to look them up online? The reasonable alternative is to provide this info to the player either for free or after having defeated a few monsters. An auto updating beastiary that gets more granular the more often you fight an enemy is the best solution for me personally.then having the option to immediatly fill this bestiary entry at the cost of an item/skill would be a much better solution in the case of stronger enemiesunless the game is piss easy but that's a whole different can of worms
>>723873765Kinda depends on what the game is going for. I think if it's about mechanical mastery and strategy, obscuring mechanics from the player is a dickmove. Like you try a move and only then find out the enemy is resistant to it. That's like a one-time trick and just prompts people to look shit up online anyway.And if it's an already challening game where wasting a turn can mean life or death or severe resource depletion the powergamer will look up enemy info too instead of using an ingame turn to get that info. It only really works for immersion heavy games I think. Otherwise it's just a cheap knoweldge check and forced trial and error - which some people like but I don't.
>>723865589The New Tokyo Legacy games give you preset teams.jy
are there any games like the MM6 trilogy? the other dungeon crawlers just dont give the same feel
>>723875626Legend of Amberland series. It's shit.
>>723875707Wizardry 8 and Wizards & Warriors (2000) are the only ones that come even close, unfortunately, I don’t know of any other similar games.
>>723876197meant to >>723875626
>>723793762You can try your hand in RPGmakerIt'll probably run like shit like all the other DRPGs made in it but it'll give you a good start
Wizardry 8 seems too autistic for me it's a populaar game yet I can't find any solid beginner party build guides and the game is too autistic to try on my own
>>723809494The ability to make maps ingame
>>723807536I can understand Japanese but it doesn't look like it's in the big collection I grabbed off of archive.com way back when. Google says there's a fan translation though.
>>723813349Wizardry: Tale of the Forsaken Land
>>723791140I like the idea of Dungeon Crawling but I dont like how the majority of these games are turn based or roguelikes. I prefer real time action adventure but I cant think of 3. I was hoping Notch would deliver but he failed again. Sigh.
>>723876197>Wizards & Warriors (2000)I have been watching this.How good is it? Is it worth playing in 2025 as an RPG and medieval genre fan?
>>723829598its neat for its time but I wouldn't say its worth playing nowadaysTheres a remake on the PS2 and a remaster on the Switch which fixes a lot of issues
>>723877264LoG1&2 and Tower of Mask
>>723877414>MaskHey this looks exactly what I am looking for but>gunwtf
>>723855035Yeah its pretty goodThe post game felt half baked last I played it but the developer actively added some suggestions I made on their forums while I was playing it so who knows maybe they updated it to be more fleshed out
>>723877392Sure, it's a great game, made by the same person who did Wizardry 5, 6, and 7. The only issue is that it doesn’t run very well on modern PCs, but maybe the GOG version helps with that.
>>723853759>I haven't been interested in installing a spyware rootkit onto my computerI might have tried it otherwise. If they sold a standalone version without the gacha yeah I probably would've bought it.
>>723855035>Path of the AbyssThis looks pretty good but going from the videos I don't get how the combat works.
>>723860134>Most of them have gotten translations over the years, though there's still some holdouts.Where can I find the translated ones?
I beat Ultima Underworld 2 some days back, but the combat theme is still stuck in my head. Games had held up really well though.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1gf_-HujyQ&t=220s
games that aged like shit>Underworld>Wizardry 8>Eye of the Beholdergames that aged surprisingly well>Lands of Lore
>>723791140Anything like Grimrock 2, i feel like dungeon crawlers finally evolved with Grimrock 2 and no one paid attention, unironically one of the best games ever made.
>>723791918>Also LoG1>LoG2You are sick in the head, seek mental help.
>>723809603This. LOG1 was a good dungeon crawler LOG2 was one of the best games i have ever played, it was such a joy to play and there is unfortunately nothing else like it.The exploration, the graphics, the puzzles, everything was just wow.
>>723877060Yeah I found out about it later, so I started playing it with it and I made steady progress so farAlso the big collection definitely has it if it's the same one I got. It's under the StudioTwinkle folder, it should have multiple versions, both fds and hdi.
>>723808713NTA and dont care about the retarded pronoun shit but if its a good game its a good game. With that said, we need to separate grid based movement, vs kings field inspired games. They really are two different things.
>>723810126I've never played Abandoned places, but I have played Waxworks, fuck the Waxworks remake, I'm a better 3d artist that whoever butchered that games visuals, I'd loved to have recreated all the games iconic gore scenes.>>723880684Lands of lore looks really good, the artist was amazing, shame about that. I can't say I was a fan of some of the overworld maps though.
>>723880872>le open world meme in a fucking tile based dungeon crawlerkill yourself
>>723793081Please elaborate, and provide examples.
>>723791918Unreal engine slop that runs and looks like shit, thank god for the free demo
>>723791140What dungeon crawl features or mechanics you ok with not having in the game to still have fun?How simple the game can get to still be enjoyable?
>>723879764Art an UI is so nice.
>>723882373I'm a fan of the interface, so I'd enjoy a puzzle game or effectively a VN using it to show a sense of space. I feel like the Shadowgate setup is going a bit too far, as I'd like to walk around and figure out where I should be going.I'm not sure how much of this is just my nostalgia and how much is a better sense of scale and positioning. I'm not a fan of games that just take the 3D sandbox style like Skyrim, so it's not just purely having the environment to walk around.The weirdest DRPG games I've played have been Fight Knight and Das Geisterschiff, which are definitely not the standard that most people expect.
>>723860473It's more than that, neanderthal.
>>723882373honestly you can make the most barebones dungeon crawler imaginable but as long as the oresentation is good it'll be enjoyablepresentation is king for this genre
>>723881069that's why we have the term blobber
>>723883341It's funny because it's one of the most budget genres when it comes to presentation.
>>723883564>95% of the games in the genre have a party taking up one square with grid-based movement>let's come up with a term to differentiate those from the remaining 5% which won't have their own termNo you use the term blobber because you're retarded. The most common of something should be the default and the things that stand out but are small in number need terms to differentiate them.
Good morning sirs!Are there any dungeon crawlers similar to ToME but first person? I mean>shit tons of classes and builds + good itemizationOr something with class promotions like in Ragnarok Online.Bonus points for similar to Dark and Darker combat
Because we all love Dungeon Crawlers we should make our own and form a studio to make them, it shall be known as Blobber team.
>>723886082it would dissolve in less than 48h
>>723886148Nevermind I already dissolved it.
>>723886082Ill be the idea guyPut female goblin enemies that dont wear a bra
>>723877516>>723877264Also, Vaporum games.
>>723879764Is Unity port only for UU1?
>>723886082how will you please the blobber investors from the Blobber Reserve firm
>>723885325dungeon crawler is far too generic to only mean first person turn-based grid-movement games where you dungeon crawl while in control of a party but sometimes also open world and sometimes not grid based and sometimes real time and sometimes only one characterblobber perfectly describes a first person game where the party moves as a blob
>>723885697>>shit tons of classes and builds + good itemizationThis is quite rare in RPGs overall.>Bonus points for similar to Dark and Darker combatNot really that I'm aware of. The ones that come to mind are Ultima Underworld (has classes and builds but they don't have a massive impact and the combat is real time but archaic), King's Field series (no builds, clunky real time combat) and recent KF-likes. Elder Scrolls is probably the closest to your description.First person games like that tend to have a rather open-ended character building system.
>>723886082Blobbers dont get enough sales to run a studio.>>723886502As far as I'm aware the Unity port was never fully finished so even for UU1 it's not really a proper way to play it.
I like dungeon crawlers because they strip down RPGs to the basics of its fun gameplay, they remove almost all story and dialogue which is something I dont care about because it almost always sucks in videogames anyways. It plays to the medium true strenghts
>>723795425Does it or are you trolling? I was about to buy it on the next sale
>>723882373I'm an exploration fag so I' be okay with simplified combat and building as long as they aren't a focus.
>>723795425I know why you're saying it but I still loved it and will but the sequel on day 1.
I wish somebody would make a Daggerfall clone.
>>723887601Why is he saying it, I need to know
>>723887787It's too much work even if you do it with similar visuals.
>>723887814Very simplistic and shallow combat. Like VERY simplistic and shallow. You basically left click your enemies. Dungeons are few and short, puzzles are few and easy.Still, loved it enough to do 2 playthroughs. The game is hard carried by its music and artstyle. And there are some fun quests here and there.
>>723888129Thanks
>>723887787would people really play a game with daggerfall's combat released in current year?
>>723869347busin 0 is pretty good. kinda unbalanced though.
>>723794164>no more grid based movement, no more first person viewPlay SMT fangames
Gadzooks!
>>723887787Isn't that what The Wayward Realms is supposed to be? However they run into another problem with development, kek.
>>723888267>>723888129Another thing I forgot to add. Character building is also super simple.
>>723887105>Ultima Underworld>King's Field series>TESI know about them of course. Damn can't believe this is unironically unexplored ground in the genre. First person ToME/Adom style dungeon crawler can potentially make you $$$. Take notes indie dev anons.
>>723889258>First person ToME/Adom style dungeon crawler can potentially make you $$$.It will probably cost as much.
>>723886693Blobber is a derogatory term though.
>>723889340agreed. we call them blib-blabs down here and that works fine. sometimes blibbys or blibbers, but never blobbers.
>>723877392it didn't age well because it was never that goodI would recommend it only to the most dedicated genre enthusiasts >>723878326>maybe the GOG version helpsit doesn'tI mean maybe it could have been worse, but there are certain critical path places in the game that are glitched due to the amount of CPU cycles or whatever and you will pass and not bounce back through an opening that looks like you can pass it only with sheer luck
>>723875626Monsters of Mican is by a weird fucking nerd and looks that way, but it does have a system reminiscent of MM6
>>723886219AAA studios, give this anon a job asap!
Betrayal at KrondorSpace WhaleMight Magic XI'm playing Wizardry Daphne>>723795132there's 6-8 of them standing in one square>>723811414the grey/beige stuff reminds me of Xcom's art style>>723793842I've only played strange journey, which other ones are better?
>>723886219just so that we know if we should investwould the female goblin enemies wear skimpy jeans shorts with no panties and pubes sticking out?and which level of sweaty are they?
>>723791140if you haven't seen it, there's a full fledged dungeon crawler designed for japanese language learning called shujinkouthey update it very frequentlythe price is stupidly high but maybe there will be a good sale eventuallyI haven't had much time to get far into it, but it's cool so faryou use kana characters to empower your hits based on guessing the names of the monsters
>>723889754I don't know if I should just check out the first 10 hours and then move on.
>>723889613blibbers for the bouncy explorers, blobbys for the squishy squads, blim-blims for the rhythmic roamers, glibbers for the glossy grid-hoppers, gloobers for the gooey group ventures, and glob-globs for the globular gang escapades.
>>723886219Put sexy half naked witches for ryona enjoyers too!
>>723890198Then further into the more experienced player, we have more respectable ones. Zibbers are the high-energy, fast-paced crawlers—think games like Etrian Odyssey, where your squad zips through labyrinths. Zlimzlobz capture the slow, sludgy, atmospheric crawlers, like The Bard’s Tale (the OG ones), Zappers meanwhile, spark up the hybrid crawlers—games like Legend of Grimrock
>>723890484finally we have the master level dungeon crawler terms. Flibberflops – These are the lighthearted crawlers, like Dungeon Travelers 2Gloozlegobs – grim, gooey, horror-tinged crawlers like Eye of the Beholder.Twizzletrots – These are the speed-demon, reflex-heavy crawlers, akin to Dungeon Hack.Plompers – Think chunky, grind-heavy crawlers like Might and Magic II, where your beefy band of adventurers plods through sprawling dungeons, hoarding loot and crunching numbers. my personal fav.
>>723886693Ask your relatives what a blobber is and see if they'll know what you mean. Dungeon crawler is self-explanatory.
>>723890943Not every dungeon crawler is a blobber.
Caught this nerd stalking me, then she tried to jump me. Lmao.
>>723891216Thanks for reminding me that I need to finish downloading DT2-2.
>>723871750Here's a new class, the Looker. They look at enemies and find tells for enemy attacks so you glean more information on what kind of attack they are about to do and where it could be directed at so guards will be needed to mitigate damage.
>>723871750Yes. But to best use it you need to have a shit ton of things and not just give all information with 1 look.
>>723890051>I've only played strange journey, which other ones are better?For me it's SMT4 and SMT4A, people give them shit for picrel, but they're easily my favorites despite smirk fuckery
>>723892027>new class: Psychic>you use their abilities to predict enemy actions, to know when to defend and when it's safe to attack>also which targets are vulnerable and which are resistant>they also use their powers to detect traps, and so are used to open chests instead of thieves
>>723892240SMT4A is unironically one of the best jrpgs out there and one of Atlus' best games
Don't know if it fully counts, but I've picked up Phantasy Star Online again.
>>723888780There's like a 1% chance that this is any good.
>>723889258First person RPGs have been dominated by the Elder Scrolls for so long that there's barely any competition in the market. Of course making a full 3d game like TES pretty much requires a team but maybe indies could explore it in more limited scopes. We've started seeing some attempts in recent years but they tend to fall a bit short in various ways.
>>723889258>dungeon crawler>making moneylol, lmao
>>723891216basedhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzMENjzkTH0
>>723889340you might think that but in current year it is a practical genre name because dungeon crawler could mean all kinds of games that aren't blobbers>>723890943>Dungeon crawler is self-explanatory.except it isn't, it only implies that dungeons are part of the gameplay and there are blobbers that have gameplay way beyond dungeon crawling>>723891045>Not every dungeon crawler is a blobber.exactly
>>723893067it counts as a dungeon crawler but it is not a blobber which is what this thread is about
>>723889258If you reeeealy lower the scope and play for strengths I guess indie dev can make a one. These kinds of games requires solid mechanics and systems and then a lot of unique, custom made content. Even doing random gen world/levels isn't enough. So many moving parts require playtesting and fixing too. Add tes style interactivity, physics, npcs, quests and it's ogre. Actual dungeon crawlers have very rough streamlined parts, to reduce friction as much as possible.
>>723791140How RNG heavy is Legend of Grimrock 1? I want to play it but I don't want to spend 15 hours on a single run only to find that the room with the very important item you need to win the game didn't spawn or something like that.Is it one of those games or is it a more traiditional/linear game with a clear end that you can finish?
>>723791816>>723791140Dungeon Master on the Atari ST was the first game I played in this genre, and I have never felt the enjoyment I feel playing it, despite dozens of attempts. I thought maybe it was nostalgia, played it again a year or so ago, still incredible. Star Raiders, on the other hand, didn't age nearly as well. Still like it, but my love for it was definitely heavily boosted by nostalgia.
>>723894659Nothing in the environment is randomly generated. You're fine.
>>723894659It's more traditional and linear. The puzzles aren't too cryptic either, there was only 1 near the end of the game I had to look up.
>>723894659I don't remember any "gg start over" moments. It's quite straightforward. 2 is much bigger and complex.
The best blobber.
>>723895158>>723895195>>723895228Thanks anons, it's gaming time then. I'm gonna turn off the internet, get something to drink and just dive in.
I liked Starcrawlers. So few scifi dungeon crawler, very sad. Plenty of them in boardgame and book form, but barely any actual vidya.
>>723895889Why are the puzzles so gay thoughAnd is the faction grinding that long? I figured rushing the social club was the right call but it wasn't good enough
>>723895971Yeah, hence liked and not loved. I'm a space scifi nut willing to forgive a shitton more flaws for space than I would other places. I even played through Mars: War Logs.
>>723889008That doesnt make it bad though... if anything that makes it a good entrypoint if you want to recommend the genre to a friend
Someone in my Steam Family had Class of Heroes 3 and it was fun enough for a couple of weeks at work.
>>723893879Examples? It'd be interesting to hear what's out there and how they fell short.
>>723897262Tokimi takanya?!
>>723898347>takanya?
>>723882373Story and characters
>>723899381>charactersYou'll have to explain this one to me. How do you have an RPG-type game without characters?
>>723894659>Legend of Grimrock 1There is an exploit that trivialises the game.Won't say how to do it here but just so you know.
>>723899459Use your imagination dumb nigger
>>723899459>charactersMake a dungeon crawler where you are a robot, but not a self aware robot and just a robot coded to kill everything and get to the end of the dungeon.
>>723899498Even if I name my fighters Dude1, Dude2, etc. they are still characters.
>>723899580Robot is a character.
which dungeon crawler has the best waifus
>>723899873Potato Flowers has a dark elf that waves at you whenever she sees you.
>>723899929dats cute
>>723899671Robot has no personality and is just a mindless murder machine with some tactical programming.No backstory, no relationships, no motivations, just following code.
Wizardry Daphne is the 1st time I've been excited to play an RPG in a while.The only issue I have with the game is the sound design, which is fixed by playing without it.
>>723791918I tried it, thought it interesting until I got stuck in an area and just couldn't bother because I didn't realize movement would be so tight.https://store.steampowered.com/app/2871520/Deep_Dish_Dungeon/Anyone following this game?
Man, I love these threads.
>>723901603I love the designs but whats up with the colors in that game, games in that era didnt look like that
>>723901603probably the best threads on /v/actual game discussion, game design discussion and recommendations with little to no shitposting
I need a DARKgeon cawrler. And I need it to be great, for the best first impression of the genre.What am I looking for?
>>723902525the dark spire
>>723902130That is a game "from that era"Wizardry 6 had a lot of technical debt and thus didn't make use of VGA graphics
>>723900472I wish I could have japanese voices
Is Stranger in Sword city a good dungeon crawler for a newbie? I'd like something with some style.
>>723901603MILWSMan I love wizardry 6
>>723903273Acquires DRPGs are all pretty easy so yeah
>>723902130This game was released in 1990 so yes it actually looks much better than other games released at the time.
>>723898273Well, Monomyth is probably the closest to being a good game. It's still a bit jank, especially the combat but it has potential. I played it around the EA launch so I don't know how much has changed since then.There's Lunacid, Northern Journey, Dread Delusion and Verho that are sort of in that loosely KF-like category if you don't look too closely. All of them are varying levels of jank and weird. There's a couple others that I don't remember the names of that could be lumped into this group. All of these seem to lack depth in the character building side of things.Then there's Tainted Grail: The Fall of Avalon that's sort of a higher budget attempt (an AA game I suppose) that's trying to compete with TES I guess. It's open worldish but doesn't have the interactivity of TES and it feels a bit hollow. All the focus went into the visuals and the rest didn't get as much attention. I feel like there's a game sort of similar to this one that I'm forgetting right now. There's some low poly asset flip looking games using THAT ONE UGLY ASS style that are surprisingly popular but the graphics turn me off so I've never tried them. There's at least two, one more TES-like another more dungeon crawler. I can't remember the names.And lastly there's some roguelite-y extraction-ish games like Witchfire and Daimon Blades. Good if you're into that type of stuff. Not so good if you don't want a run-based game.I'm probably forgetting a bunch but all these came to mind. Quite possibly there are games that I haven't even heard of.
I whined last thread that there was no translation patch for pic related. Turns out I am an idiot and the game is almost completely in english, you just need to turn the first four options in the menu all the way to the right.Game's pretty cool, but brutal as shit.
>>723904495Great version of Wiz 1-3, great sprite work and music. I still make my own maps when I play this one though because the automap is zoomed way too far in
>>723896134>That doesnt make it bad though...Overall - no. Complexity doesnt make the game automatically good but from a standpoint of a seasoned player it can be a serious downside.
>>723901517>Anyone following this game?Yeah, it's up there for me with Neverlooted Dungeon and Monomyth in the most anticipated free movement crawlers.
>>723904903Monomyth was alright.. I was expecting more oh and I forgot that there's this one toohttps://store.steampowered.com/app/2520400/Nox_Mortalis/https://x.com/MrGemezl/highlightsvery fun demo if you want to try it out, plays like a ps1 game but something about it just makes you spend time exploring it
>>723894131first game's BGM was pure greatnesshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wd5UCk518JY
>>723904903>>723905281>Neverlooted Dungeon>Nox MortalisI had never heard of these. Thanks anons.
>>723905281Yeah, I've found Momomyth somehwat underwhelming and dissapointing. Can't say that Neverlooted Dungeon blew me away as well. But there's nothing else and beggars can't be choosers.>https://store.steampowered.com/app/2520400/Nox_Mortalis/https://x.com/MrGemezl/highlightsThis looks like another indie KIng's Field. And for some reason I can't get into those.
Here're the ones that I'm waiting forhttps://store.steampowered.com/app/2411200/Underkeep/https://store.steampowered.com/app/1174510/Call_of_Saregnar/https://store.steampowered.com/app/2513200/Mystic_Land_The_Search_for_Maphaldo/
>>723886693But that's what dungeon crawler meant when games like you described needed to a genre, anon.
are there any interesting sci-fie ones? i liked strange journey
>>723907015Wizardry 6-8
https://youtu.be/MQ5bp6tGMj4https://youtu.be/_tuxJSO25r8https://youtu.be/mxHDdFcRElA
>>723907015Can't think of any besides StarCrawlers.
>>723907015I played one called Silent Debuggers on the PC Engine.
Does System Shock 1 belongs to the genre? What about remake?
>>723907352They call those with an emphasis on story "immersive sims" kinda stupid name to be honest
>>723907352SS1 sure. SS2 no, it's an immersive sim
>>723906449it's like calling an fps a shooter yeah it's a shooter but fps is a lot more descriptive you gotta consider that the old time genre names aren't being used the same today because of how devs add tags to their games on steam and that slowly changes what the tags meanif you look under dungeon crawler in steam you'll find all sorts of games
>>723900326That's basically what Algolemeth (upcoming) is. It's golems instead because of the fantasy setting but the party are just mindless automatons with simple programming to go in dungeon, kill shit and take loot. You're actually playing as the alchemist who's making and coding the Golems, though, the golems are controlled automaticlaly based on your code.
Wouldn't an appropriate name be grid fighter?
>>723908543isn't a grid-based strategy game also a grid fighter?
>>723908543but you don't fight grids in theseyou're describing TRON
>>723908543Lots of games use grids to fight on HoMM, FF Tactics, Fallout 1-2 were fully on grid. Should be grid crawler, but dungeon crawler is still more evocative, and blobber faster and iconic.
Who coined the term "blobber"? I want to find this man and have an eye to eye talk with him.
>>723908896Dungeon crawler evokes Diablo for me
>>723909103its a term from the early 80s
>>723909110That's fair, since it's started as a turn based crawler and then morphed into action.
>>723909190AI disagrees.
>>723832815On the contrary, most of Werdna's allies are pretty trustworthy, they just suck butts compared to the enemy parties
>>723908043Immersive sim doesnt refer to the story.
>>723909856then what
>>723908386Anon publishers having absolutely no shame about tags on steam doesn't change the meaning of genres, it doesn't mean shit. They call their games everything and there is absolutely no meaning to it.
>>723909878The gameplay obviously
>>723909975what about it, cant be specific about your made up genre?
>>723910017https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=what+is+an+immersive+sim
>>723910087I accept your concession
>>723909401AI is constantly wrong even about the most basic things
good thread, see ya next time
>>723909916you don't get itit affects the modern gamer's perception of genresyou gotta speak about games with specific terms so that people don't get confusedmake a thread about dungeon crawlers and you get all sorts of games in there that aren't blobbers because dungeon crawler is such a wide term
Are the blobbers in the room with us right now?
uuugh i'm blooobing
farewell blobbers!
Why not call them Dungeon Masterlikes?
>>723910815because they're wizardrylikes
grid scrollers
>>723910975more like cringe smellers, am i right?heh, got em
What happened to this thread?>4pm on the American east coast, kids are getting home from schoolAh
>>723910815Weren't they started with like Wizardry
Wizardryvanias
>>723911078Wizardry and eye of the beholder
blobcore
