>>723876776
>just play for fun
Idk it still works for me

tbf cheaters would not exist if sweats and meta gamers didn't exist and sweats wouldn't exist if meta gamers didn't exist and meta gamers wouldn't exist if the devs simply just made a good and balanced game.

>>723876776
That's why I stick to PvE co-op games.

>>723876776
I don’t understand why this is drawn as a triangle can you put something in the middle and add “is/is nots”

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>cheaters
>bad

>>723876924
>tbf cheaters would not exist if sweats and meta gamers didn't exist
??
people cheat in peggle
it's a mental illness, hence why chinese, jewish and brown people do it the most

>>723876776
People hate League of Legends but it solves OPs picture perfectly. Cheating is extremely rare, meta exists but is never too oppressive and at higher level of play pros take less optimal comfort picks all the time, sweats exist but there's enough room to play for fun

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>>723876776
MW2 solved this 16 years ago by making every gun meta

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>>723877234
here we see why league of legends faggots are mocked more than all other demographics online

>>723876924
People cheat in single player games.

This is stupid. Only cheaters shouldn't be there, but "meta" and "sweats" are just part of playing to win. If the goal of the game is to win, you can't blame people for playing to win.
I'm in my mid 30s so I'm way past that point in my life where I play hard to win anymore, but I'm not stupid enough to pretend that playing to win isn't normal.

>>723876776
you could solve the cheating problem very easy and its not by enabling secure boot
region lock asia and you instantly eliminate 80% of all cheaters

>>723877372
>you can't blame people for playing to win
unless you're getting paid to win like some e-sport player then it's completely pointless, and your try-hard sweaty style of play ruins it for everyone else.

>>723877515
Nta but taking an “anti meta” attitude just results in an endless race to the bottom as the next best option becomes the “acceptable” option, if a game isn’t fun when people try it’s just not a fun game

>>723876924
>meta gamers wouldn't exist if the devs simply just made a good and balanced game
Every game has a meta no matter how balanced it is

>>723877515
No, not really, you don't have to be an esport player just to play to win in a game where the goal is to win. I don't know where you got this idea from that you shouldn't play to win in order to have fun, but if that's what you truly belive, you will never have fun in an online competetive PvP game.

>>723876924
>meta gamers wouldn't exist if the devs simply just made a good and balanced game.
You will ALWAYS have a meta. If they made a balanced game do you think it'll go away?
>We already have this class, we will pass on you
In a MMORPG you wouldn't be included into a party because they already have a class that does your function thus they'll be looking for someone else that does something different that they need. In a team based death match you'll squabble with teammates on who gets vital roles because people don't enjoy the play style but the role has to be fulfilled to be an optimal team. That's metafagging while being balanced. Do you think there will be a world with one team all using automatic rilfes and another team using snipers will be a balanced game?

>>723877330
You didn't refute his point. It's still going strong. I haven't played in years but it's all pretty much in check like they said whenever I watch a match.

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>>723877802
>You didn't refute his point
your point*

>It's still going strong.
like a cancer tumor

it's one of the worst videogames of all time, everyone who plays it hates it, you're a gigacasual stockholm syndrome faggot

>>723877686
i personally hate matching with retarded idealistic 20 year olds on my team with ambitions of becoming some big star esport player like their favorite streamers. it's almost every game now where you will have players that are completely sweaty toxic retards with temper tantrum problems.

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>>723876776
violating people online is my "playing for fun" baseline
bitsh

>>723876776
Your problem is matchmaking.
Without matchmaking the metafags don't exist, since they don't form parasocial relationships with esports slop.
Without matchmaking the sweats are sweating in their own dedicated sweatboxes.
Without matchmaking the cheaters just get kicked, because the game can actually respect your time and doesn't need to spend 30 minutes to arrange a fucking 5v5.
>>723877234
League exacerbates every single one of those issues other than cheating.
>>723877295
Like a lot of late 2000s slop, MW2 caused this shit with its fuckawful lobbies.

>>723877893
>I hate playing with people who play to win
This is literally what you are saying, everything else is formulated in such a way to protect your ego from the truth.
Again, if you don't like to play to win, you're not going to have a good time in a competetive multiplayer game where the goal is to win.

>>723878569
>Without matchmaking the metafags don't exist, since they don't form parasocial relationships with esports slop.
False. Quake and Unreal Tournament was played on a highly competetive level and none of them featured matchmaking. Matchmaking has nothing to do with it.
>Without matchmaking the sweats are sweating in their own dedicated sweatboxes.
False. Nothing stops a "sweat" from joining a random server and absolutely obliterate everyone. In fact, this largely contributes to why Quake and Unreal Tournament died out, the "sweats" pubstomped everyone and they stood no chance. Matchmaking has nothing to do with it.
>Without matchmaking the cheaters just get kicked, because the game can actually respect your time and doesn't need to spend 30 minutes to arrange a fucking 5v5.
I think you went full retard here. Matchmaking doesn't need 30 minutes to arrange a 5v5, it takes 5-10 seconds. Cheaters existed before matchmaking too, and you relied on luck whether someone with admin rights were around to kick them off the server, if not, you had to leave and find another server. Not even sure what you were getting at with this point, but anyway: Matchmaking has nothing to do with it.

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>>723876776
already solved ages ago, moving everything to no oversight matchmaking turned it all to shit
games that still have admin/servers dont have nearly the same amount of issues
>>723879726
literal shit eating peasant detected

>>723879435
I also want to win but not as hard that I would get angry over team mates making mistakes or that the enemy is better than me.
Playing to win isn't a binary, there's degrees of emotinal investment and many people are way too invested nowadays.

>>723880210
But that's all there is to it: you don't want to win as hard. Everything else is just cope. You are angry at people who are willing to further than you to win. That is just unreasonable that people should stop at your arbitrary line what is too far and isn't, when the goal is to win.
>>723879965
Great argument, fagtron, that really convinced me.

>>723876776
replace "cheaters" with "Chinks"

>>723879726
>False. Quake and Unreal Tournament was played on a highly competetive level and none of them featured matchmaking.
metafags =/= compfags

>erm... are you trying to win?
>like actually trying
>dude... you're ruining my vibe bro
faggot

>>723876776
>forfeit right to arbitration
>kernel anticheat
>no official mod support
>you agree to have your voice recorded to train ai that will ban you or other players
The online gaming experience was ruined before I even touched the game

Why do /v/troons seethe endlessly about people being better than them?

>>723880984
Quake had a meta.

>>723877234
>Cheating is extremely rare
lol
>meta exists but is never too oppressive
lol!
they literally had to introduce a different drafting system to force people to stop picking the same handful of characters every game in pro play
just stop

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>>723876776
>Game has amazing balance and is completely comfortable to play.
>Game most popular streamer said that he is not happy with this, and things must change.
>Retarded community manager heard about this.
>«Thank you, our dear community, we HEARD your wishes!»
>A global update is released that breaks everything and making the game unplayable.

>>723881474
I fucking hate it when this shit happens. Never balance a game around an e-celeb.

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>>723881441
>Hey players, we specially go to shooting ranges and test weapons in real conditions to bring their characteristics as close to reality as possible.
>What do you mean, the weapon is too unbalanced, but... but it's realism.
>In each update, the balance of almost every weapon is changed.

What’s wrong with sweats? Since when is doing your best a bad thing?

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>>723876776
Literally just do whatever you want, no one is stopping you. You sound like the guy who only buys Nikes before your dad told you Adidas were for faggots. Guess what, faggot? Adidas are better.

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>>723882350
>I don't want to sweat and tryhard.
>I'm going to play multiplayer.
>the PVP multiplayer
>In a game where the main goal is to play better than the enemy team.

>>723882350
Something you'll learn is that the "I play for fun" crowd actually do care about winning.

>>723881474
>>723881536
>any game with an esports scene
>patches only adress some weird edge case balancing that only affects the top .01% of players

Statistically speaking, most players are casuals, even those that would love to be more. I wonder why they accept balancing for the top few % while the devs don't care what happens in most lobbies.
>oh no we can't buff this gun/move/character, that would upset the esports scene!!!
kek

>>723876776
>competitive environment
>people want to win
i mean you have to know what you're getting into

>>723876776
Sweaty players running the neta wouldnt be a problem if the devs had more forsight into the long term competitive scene. But remember, these people literally want you to get tired of the game and drop it so that youre forced to pick up the new one.

>>723883208
>>competitive environment
That exists only in your head.

>>723882930
what they hate is not getting to play the game because the other guy is too good.
how can you have fun when you don't even get to play?

>>723888379
Simple by learning and adapting.

>>723876776
what are the sweats?

>>723877657
There is no proof of that, since a perfectly balanced game doesn't exist.

>>723888817
NTA but there's not much to learn if your opponent flies in out of nowhere at mach 5 and immediately deletes you with a perfectly placed shotgun headshot or sniper rifle driveby or whatever while b-hopping like a Quake player on crack, or they stunlock you with a series of busted CC abilities so you can't do jack and/or shit. Like what in the hell are you supposed to take away from that? What lessons are there to be learnt?

>>723877743
If the game was perfectly balanced, playing off-meta would be an advantage because you would be just as strong as a metafag, but less predictable.

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>>723877234
>>723876776
Because the holy trifecta in the center of OPs pic is missing the most essential thing:
>Being a dick for no reason
Take that away, and all the cornerstones won't matter shit.
>Hackers who aren't dicks?
Hackers that instead of boosting themselves for shit to ruin everyones day for some egotistical shit, make shot interesting instead (increase everyones head size for the lulz, change gravity out of nowhere, force everyone to have a melee only round in a shooting game, give people resources for no reason so they can fuck around).
>Metafags that aren't dicks?
Find something that helps everyone, not just you.
>Sweaties?
Throw them into their own category so they can compete with other sweats so they eat each others ego without needing to go so low as to prey on casuals just to make themselves feel better.
Its all about not being an asshole. Enjoy your day without ruining everyone elses day.

>>723876776
SBMM is good for everyone except those that dont play fair

As long as a game has options and a win state, people will make the most optimal choices in order to get a victory. A metagame is literally unavoidable.

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>>723877234
>meta exists but is never too oppressive

>>723889082
The lesson to learn is how to also fly at mach 5, bunny hop, and be accurate.

But also this more about how all games mainly have skilled based match making while also no longer allowing for community hosted servers. The biggest problem is that the most zoomers that are the "have fun gamers" don't even realize what they have lost with absence of community servers. If only fags could have seen what counter strike servers were like in the 00s (hint: it isn't like CSGO2 with nothing but esports tryhards farming loot boxes)

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>>723890008
Yeah.
Most cheaters, sweaties, metatards are genuinely shitty people. They don't believe in fun, good sportsmanship, improvement etc. They will closet cheat, they will smurf, they will abuse mechanics, they will exploit, they will become admins and abuse their powers. Their primary motivation is always the reactions they get from victims.
Very rarely you get a cool cheater, an actual non cheating good player, a good admin, a good micspammer etc.
It's a mental illness.

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>>723876776
>ruins you thread

>>723879965
>games that still have admin/servers dont have nearly the same amount of issues
except just like real life most admins/owners etc are terrible people
they don't care if everything is shit they just want to shit at their thrones on a pile of shit and get off to kids sucking to them
multiplayer genre is a lost cause outside of very casual games like 100% orange juice

>>723889323
It would be unbalanced because then there is an inherent weakness for including everything. Why build a team that way if this off meta continually wrecks it? Then comes into question other classes/weapons viability compared to others if a balanced team is toppled with something more specialized. Now you've created a metafag arms race.

Isn't meta and sweats the same thing? Only tryhards would use meta.

>>723889323
That just makes the off-meta meta based on surprise factor. Which makes the meta based around how fast you can swap/switch up on your oppenent rather than a single characters setup.

>>723888965
Then autists should stop talking out of their ass about game balance then.

Exactly why i'm not playing online games at all. Vidya time is "me time" and i want to play a game at my own pace. That means if i want to stand around and look at a chair for 10 minutes i will do just that and i don't want anyone to tell me to hurry up. Just like i don't want anyone in my game that impedes my progress. But most importantly i don't want the game(or the players) punishing me for playing my favorite class fantasy. If i want to play a sword/board warrior i don't want anyone to tell me i should switch to axes because they are just better or that ARs suck ass and i need to use SMGs.

>>723876776
I only cheat in non-competitive games for fun. Cheating in competitive games is only fun if you’re facing tryhards who will scream on the mic and send you hate messages, otherwise it just feels soulless.

>>723895136
Not really. Could be you stumbled on a build trying things out and it works really well and feels good to play and it turns out its meta.
Play any game long enough youre going to find out what works and feels good and what doesnt, and the things that are meta tend to be the things that seem to work for a reason even if you didnt aim to be meta.

>>723890008
>Throw them into their own category so they can compete with other sweats so they eat each others ego without needing to go so low as to prey on casuals just to make themselves feel better
But people hate SBMM
Also, a really good player could probably kick your ass 10 times over without even trying. Should they be in the casual pool or the sweat pool?

Is it meta, cheating or sweating if you emulate a mobile game on PC to own kids playing on tablets?

>>723895938
Its kind of sad mostly

Why did sweat substitute tryhard?

>>723876776
>meta
agree
>cheaters
agree except for when you use it as a baseless excuse when losing
>sweats
you are just bad

>>723877295
Nobody used most of the guns and almost everyone used the UMP because of
>retarded 40-35 damage guaranteeing a 3 hit kill at any range (strongest ARs had 40-30)
>32 round magazine for some fucking reason
>SMG mobility
The UMP could lose on paper only against faster firing ARs and SMGs up close, but it was the best gun in the game literally 90% of the time

>>723895938
sad, but i did the same thing with pubg mobile like half a decade ago

>>723876776
>sweats
Warrior
>cheaters
Magician
>meta
Rogue

>>723877657
A perfectly balanced game, in which any choice you can possibly have has the same choice of success, would be one where the choice itself would be pointless.

The only comparison I could make is a game where there is a perfect coinflip that is always 50/50, and you and the opponent just choose which side to bet on, each betting on 1. There is literally no difference in the sides so the only "choice" you can make is entirely meaningless.