Why do immersive sims always flop?
>>724020219Normalfags lack critical thinking to complete an open-ended game without checkmarks.
>>724020219Brainlet filter.they need checkpoints, quest markers and tutorials
Because the only people who like immersive sims are 200IQ godlike gigachads and there aren't very many of them.
>>724020628
>>724020219>tfw Redfall was made by retard devs in the present instead of good devs 15 years agowe were robbed
because they re flawed? mankind divided is a really good game in many ways but holy shit the hub music is probably the worst track in the game, the leftist writing is bland and boring, excess dialog, some lacking in design in general here and there, wasting the rest of the gameprey had a shitty cartoonys texture style marketing prolly lacked a rifle wand wa smanaged terribly. instead or releasing the game again or remastering they just sold it for 2 bucks, retarded editordishonored was not that great , thief and deus ex these games were kidna scary and not known + back then the gameplay in these games was pretty subpar a bit like gothic deathloop wa spretty flawed too. they dont have to flop but now that immmigration had a lot of lower IQ ppl in the western market its goign to fuck any high iq genre so RTS etc
>>724020219This is the objective ranking of Immersive-sims Follow this list and you won't be disappointed.
>tfw the only new imsims we're getting are indie memeshits like picrel
>>724020858>Gloomworld1.0 never ever
>>724020219this genre should be called sexlike (short for deus ex-like)No I don't care if deus ex wasn't the firstimmersive sim doesn't mean anything on its own
>>724020219>immersive simsthats not a thing that exists
>>724021360Your first mistake is thinking this is a genre, clearly you need to be educated.Sadly /v/tard like you can't be educated through the internet, you need to be punched until your nose becomes flat, then you will learn.
>>724020219Bad marketing. That's all there's to it.
>hobbies to escape reality>muh realismgo outside, faggot
>>724021778Not everyone's into your toddlerslop, nigger. I can assure you that Dishonored is better than your favourite slop.
>>724020858>Thief 2 over TDPYikes.
>>724020219Didn't Thief, Thief 2, Deus Ex and Dishonored do well? The original SS as well. And I think the new Deus Ex games did pretty decent.
>>724020858Move Dishonored and Prey down one but otherwise accurate.
>>724021860nah nioh 2 is better. dishonored is easy baby shit for mall ninjas larpers
>>724022308Dishonored 2 flopped because the engine was shit and no one could run it well on an affordable card for 5 years. Same with Mankind Divided
>>724020219Immersive sims are generally FPSes where the shooting mechanics don't work. The devs are so retarded that, instead of fixing the shooting mechanics, tack on a bunch of bloat to it for "emergent gameplay." The only emerging you're going to do playing these games is emerging from the closet, faggots.
>>724022520>Nioh 2Lmao
>>724022075Arguments, lets hear them.
>>724021043That and Neverlooted Dungeon are my never ever indie games. I want to play them so fucking bad.
>>724020606>>724020626not to mention trophies, achievements, good boy points
>>724020219Didn't dishonoured, thief and Deus Ex + HR do pretty well?
>>724020858invisible war and hr are in b tier, bioshock 2 and infinite is in not immersive sim tier. Never played consortium or eye. any good?
>>724020858>HR below MKNice ragebait.
>>724022845The undead levels in TDP were good for breaking up the monotony, and 2 was designed bottom up (they made the levels first and then tried to fit them into a story, hence the nonsensical submarine level) rather than top down.
>>724020219Dishonored did fine didn't it?>>724022308I've never agreed that Thief or SS1 are immersive sims. They favor one playstyle too much.
>>724020219I don't know but I tried playing Thief and was bored out of my fucking mind. I think I played some shitty remaster or something, though? No idea
>>724020219They're a proof 3 digit IQ requirement filters the vast majority of gaming population.If you don't have at least 1 immersive sim in your gaming top 10 you're almost certainly a low intelligence person.
>>724023190SS1, sure I agree. Thief is an immsim. It's a stealth game, but it's built on emergent gameplay and approaching things in different ways.
>>724023314Why not just play a good cover shooter?
>>724023323I never played Thief 2, but to me T1 was a strictly stealth game with multiple options (arrows) to change how you approach stealth, where you're punished for taking a direct approach.
>>724024250>but to me T1 was a strictly stealth gameYes, and? Immsim isn't a genre. It doesn't mean "Game where you can stealth, fight, run or talk".
>>724021562They are not very straightforward to market I guess. The genre is too much of a blend of different genres
>>724020219I like stealth games more than I do Immersive Sims. Thief is considered to be an 'immsim' yet it feels like a different game genre to me. I don't find any other games quite as appealing as I do Thief. Except for the early Splinter Cell games because of their emphasis on both shadow intensity and sound. The winning formula for awesome gameplay. Dishonoured just didn't get it right. I play most games that have been grouped into this general idea regardless, sometimes because they allow for lite stealth gameplay like in Deus Ex. But for me being someone that likes this very methodically paced gameplay it's like I'm on a different planet to those who enjoy immsims. I like games like Intravenous that are not Imsims. You know real stealth games are unpopular too right? probably more unpopular than the general grouping of games that you like.
dragons dogma is an immersive sim
>>724020219what do you immerse yourself as in deathloop?
>>724020219Normies cannot into them. Too much freedom, too many unclear goals.
>>724026747>freedom>to be chained to shitty mechanics
minecraft is arguably a immersive sim
A lot of great historical thinkers believed that true democracy was fundamentally impossible and a flawed concept because the average citizen is either not educated enough for their vote to be weighed the same as someone who knows what they’re talking about, or that the mass majority of the population is just naturally stupid and by allowing them to have the same vote a society will inevitably fall apart.that’s your answer but extrapolate that to your videogame question. People vote with their wallet.
>>724023072>De-emphasising the stealth from a stealth game is breaking up the monotonyWeird logic.
>>724022585yeah that's why it flopped
>>724026881no one ever denied that
>>724020767I don't think even older arkane could have made redfall good
>>724020858Prey is one of the most boring and stupid games I have every played in my entire life. Holy shit what a snooze fest, garbage story, garbage world design, garbage ending. Dishonored was good tho.
>>724027117So buy games that are only unknown? Got it
>>724024250Thief II is really just a continuation of the first, it's very good.
any good recent immersive sims? completed games preferably
>>724030583Gears of War Reloaded.
>>724020219How are these basic FPS games immersive sims?I would say something with little to no HUD and a heavy rely on atmosphere like Little Nightmares are way more immersive
>>724020219Looking glass studios said it best. "We make games by MTI grads for MIT grads. The production costs of all the systems is inordinately high yet the actual audience for it is slim.
That System Shock remake was pretty damn good.
>>724030583Ctrl Alt Ego kind of leans far too much into it but it's still fine
>>724030750Genre names barely mean anything once you get out of the big widely known genres. Roguelikes basically take nothing from the original identity of rogue yet still calls themselves that quite frequently. It's more about having several ways to solve a problem in an open-ended level
>>724030583ea sports fc 26
>>724026472DD is absolutely an immsim with regards to combat.
>>724021778none of these games are realistic
>>724020219>Dishonored Successful, got expansions and sequels.>Dishonored 2Death by woke.>PreyStupid ass name. Bland story and setting. Literally no reason to care.>Deus ExPretty successful for its time, kept the studio afloat after the failure of Daikatana. Won a bunch of GOTY awards.>Invisible WarKilled by consolization, but sold decently.>Homosexual RevolutionIt was actually quite successful in terms of salsa and critical acclaim.>Mankind DividedKilled by Square Enix's gay and retarded business decisions. >ThiefIt got three sequels stop pretending it's a fucking flop.>System ShockSuccessful, got a sequel and a remake.>System Shock 2Also a big hit, allowed Irrational to keep making games including BioShock and its sequels.>DeathloopNiggers.
>>724020219That sre some great games, are you shilling death loop?
>>724020858Imagine putting Dark Messiah at the same tier as BioShock fucking Infinite. Prey is total garbage but your S tier is otherwise good.
>>724020219When I think of Prey, I think of Prey 2006.
>>724030750In this context 'immersive' means that it's in first person so that you feel like you are inside the game.
>>724020858shit listHR and MD should be in>not immersive simthe gameplay is more linear than IW's, with simpler level design and less route options and abilities.>>724023220You probably played "Thief" 4, the reboot, which is a really boring version of Dishonored with better graphics, the same way HR and MD are boring versions of IW with better graphics.
>>724030583Skin Deep
Fellow ImmSimfags, if you haven't played the Bunker I'd highly recommend it. I didn't even know what it was before going in and I was pleased and surprised. After a ~10 minute tutorial, it is nothing but gameplay for the rest of the duration. It's got a pretty small but very dense map with a shit ton of different ways to tackle most problems, especially when everything is randomised on NG+. I finished my second playthrough today and I am absolutely certain I'll be starting a third soon.Only real complaint is that fire doesn't burn down wooden objects, what the fuck guys??
>>724020628amen
I don't know what an immersive sim is. Is HL2 one? Is Doom 3 one?
>>724035193>Is HL2 one? Is Doom 3 one?No and no.
>>724020219Because 99% of the world's population has shit taste and they dominate the market audience now.
Some of them are successful.
>>724035193Immersive sim doesn't have a super clear definition, but I think of it like this:There are some genres that are based in aesthetics, like western or fantasy.Some genres are based in mechanics, like first person shooter or racing.Some genres are based on how several mechanics interact with one another, like simulator, RPG, or immersive sim.It's more or less intended to be the digitization of the kind of off-mechanic solutions to problems you can come up with in tabletop RPGs. In most games where you see a crate, you can normally only break it and maybe get an item out of it. In an immersive sim, the crate would ideally have multiple uses. Sure you can smash it to get an item, but it'd be just as good to use that crate as cover to hide behind for stealth, use it as a platform to move to a new part of the level, block a door with it, or pick it up and throw it as a weapon. Maybe you could even set it on fire and use it to melt a block of ice.Half Life 2 isn't far off, but it's a bit too linear and scripted to have that proper sandbox gameplay.
>>724020219gameplay feel is garbage
>>724030583KCD2
>>724020858Bioshock 2 is the best bioshock
>>724020858>Bioshock 1 A tierThis genre is gay.
>>724020628Explain this.
>>724020858Prey is not that good
>>724020938PEAK is a better imsim than what this turned out to be, or any other independent 'imsim' marketed game so far.
>>724020219pacing is boring. there, I said it. no, I don't want to revisit place for a tenth time to find some lousy door unlocking code.
How would YOU make immersive sims popular /v/?
>>724020219>immersive simsYou mean RPG?
>>724020858No UO2? FILTERED
>>724039009I don't know :(but I'd like them to be.
>>724020219Those games barely have anything to do with one another and the term is retarded.
>>724027846>>724032795>>724032998>>724038838serious question but why do you guys think prey is terrible? i played it and i find them to be enjoyable enough. while i think the game kinda gets worse (it kinda drags around when i reached that zero gravity hallway) i wouldnt call the game total dogshit or anything
>>724039009More dishonored (fast paced)More bishock (great presentation)
>>724039009Pay a bunch of twitch streamers to shill them.
>>724020219Despite the pretentious “im-sim” branding, they are just boring stealth games. Why aren’t stealth games more popular? Because they are boring.
>>724022660t. sexually insecure brainlet dude that can't handle vidya if it gives him a right turn option in his hallway on rails sim.
>>724040519Prey is a mediocre 3D metroidvania for stupid Americans who need a gun to shoot or they get bored.
>>724020858What the fuck kind of definition of Immersive Sim are you using where the Bioshock games count but Stalker and Bloodlines don't?
Slaves only play streamlined over the shoulder narrative games. Immersive sims make their buttholes tingle and they start uncontrollably shitting and farting at the thought of a game that doesn't have 42 indicators on screen telling them EXACLTY what to do at every single step.
>>724041343Have you actually played Dishonored or Prey? Every arkane game holds your hand and tells you where to go and what to do every step of the way.
Is prefering SS1 to SS2 makes me a contrarian?
>>724020858I did not care for Prey.
>>724020858>Bioshock Infinite>immersive siminto the trash this goes
>>724041481Neither did Bethesda lmao
>>724020219Immersive sims always flop because they suck.>Hey want to play this game with ass combat and ass stealth?>You can stack boxes to jump over a wall! Aren't you excited?
>>724020858>Deathpoop is an immersive simWat? Someone played that?
>>724020219immersive sims that overcome the limitations/flaws of the genre aren't generally recognized as being immersive sims anymore--i'm thinking of the nu-hitman trilogy in particular, which allows for creativity and player agency without being a an unfun, directionless save scum slog like prey et al
>>724041476No as SS1 is the better game overall
Should i add swat or ready or not?
>>724041595>t. idiot middle manager
Doesn't dishonored and deus ex and thief and system shock have 4 games or something?Can't be that much of a flopPrey was also good but had poor marketing and people chimped out it was unrelated to the IP
I didn't like Skin Deep.It's a 2 hours repettitive poorly balanced game stretched into 9 hours. And I didn't find the humour humorous.
>>724042028Yeah that was a total wash for how long it was in dev for. Guy should've just made Quadrilateral Cowboy 2: no story edition.
>>724020219Dishonored 2, prey and death loop are trash. Add arx fatalis and gloomwood instead
>>724039009Make the "your choice actually matters" and the "immersive" key points of marketing, many people write off immersive sims as generic shooters because they just don't understand they are more than that
>>724020219Because this genre tend to be pretentious. Yes i can kill enemies by turning on the oven to burn them alive instead direct combat, but for all that fun, i get to experience a boring, nihilistic and cynical storyline that leaves no long lasting impression or memorable characters.
>>724043214Immersive sim should be low budgeted games so the small but faithful fanbase can keep the franchise alive.
>>724040450The thing about immersive sim is that it allows you to break away from that boring stealth gameplay and exploit the mechanics. It is not as smart as youtubers make it out to be, but it is engaging.
>>724043328>good immersive sim >low budget but a short-lived game>autistic tranny dev but the game lives longerchose 2 and only 2
>>724043229>deus ex >a boring, nihilistic and cynical storyline that leaves no long lasting impression or memorable characterslol
>>724039009I'd just make one with optional friendslop so you and 3 buddies can all be secret nano-agents and stack boxes, kill NPCs and otherwise fuck with a world that takes itself seriously otherwise.
>>724041812Replace Skyrim with Morrowind, gothic or archolosReplace nuhitman with BM or contractsRemove mgsv and deathloop
>>724043914>Stack boxes>MultiplayerThat's just Fortnite
>>724030750It's immersive because the dev give you gameplay tools so you can do what you want instead of what traditional games allow you to do. They try to break this gameplay brick wall (back then, invisible walls, only a single way to finish a quest or to kill a mob), with gameplay systems that can lead to "emergent" gameplay, behaviours not planned but possible to achieve. The target moment is when the player realize "wow, I can do that? So cool!" And forget it's a game for a moment because usually a game would have just said "no". They are called immersive sims, not immersive games.My own simple definition, grounded in history is that they are game that are attempting to achieve the illusion of freedom you get playing trpg.
>>724044009>they are game that are attempting to achieve the illusion of freedom you get playing trpg.Immersive sim takes alot of inspiration from Might and Magic, which allows player to exploit without any built in prevention.
By design they aren't pick up and play 15-30 minute time wasters.This alienates the majority of the market, especially console gamers who are very casual players and I'm not using that term derogatorily.This means they are a bad pick for a AAA massive budget in dev and advertisement since the market for huge return just isn't there unless you get lucky and become the game of the month, a risky gamble to say the least.So you've got a genre/game design/vibe that by aligning itself with the game has less market appeal and it's also a unsafe investment for soulless shareholders that have a chokehold on the companies that finance normie market trends.
>>724039181Learn the difference, it could save your life.
>>724020858>underworld ascendant>above anythinghas to be a bait list.
>>724044398Looks rad. Game?
>>724044991Underrail 2. Not out yet.
>>724044991Underrail 2: Infusion.It's not out yet and probably won't be for years.
>>724045041>>724045060Aww. Well, looks cool.
>>724039009Skyrim
>>724023314What if I didn't like Deus Ex 1 at first and got filtered by it, but then tried it again later and loved it? Did my IQ increase?
>>724020858How is VTMB not an immersive sim? and why is Dark Messiah that low
>>724043214The problem is that with any kind of larger budgets, the executives barge in and tell you "you can't put that many systems in a game! Only a fraction of players will engage with them all, and that means that you are wasting my money on things that will go unused!"That is the real reason this design philosophy isn't used for making games. The idiots in charge think that if a game has infinite possibilities and a finite audience, they are not making infinite profit and all that potential is pearls to swine.
>>724047250>How is VTMB not an immersive sim?Well, firstly it's not a genre at all because then it would be easy to define. It's the reason and the way you make a game, not the sum of its features.But since you asked, no. VTMB was not made using the imsim design philosophy. It's a big pile of manually added options for the player to choose from. Level design isn't built around facilitating emergent gameplay using systems that the player can interact with but instead has a select few manually added routes, and sometimes only one linear path with a singular officially accepted gameplay that goes with it. Dialogue trees comprise a large number of those options and they certainly have no systems-based interactivity. And the rest are the RPG stat elements where you just tweak the few gameplay systems there are.Hell, you don't even have mantling in that game. All of your movement was decided in advance by the level designers. If something looks like you could get on top of it, you can't, because the dynamic interaction systems to make that into an improvised solution do not exist.
>Okay, explain again what you want this development budget for. What will your players experience?>I have no idea. That's up to them. The design is complex and elegant, and anything you imagine might be possible to do.>Budget denied. You will make linear cinematic slop instead. And don't you dare make it difficult. Every player must be able to consume the full product or my money goes to waste.
>>724048214I hate how true this shit is. Imagine a world where this design choice becomes the norm.
>>724020219PREY 2017 MENTIONED I AM CUMMING AUGHHHH OGHHHH AHN~
>>724020858Underworld Ascendant is completely unplayable.
>>724043962Retard.
>>724048214serves you right for littering btw
>>724020219Imsim design philosophy is the pinnacle of what is achievable with video games. Unfortunately, the label has been appropriated and bastardised for marketing purposes so that it now means "you can either kill people or crawl through vents".
Prey would've hit critical acclaimed success if it was called literally anything else but prey
>>724020219Dishonored 1 didn't flop and Deathloop doesn't count as an immersive sim
>>724020219Because they're not open world.
>>724050383>you can either kill people or crawl through ventsCruelty Squad in the nutshell. I played it and couldn't believe how shallow the game was.
>>724050448It is a game for autistic rpg nerd who only want to exploit the game's mechanic and capable of ignoring ugly niggas.
>>724045673Your iq didn't increase but your attention span did.
I spent a lot of time in Dishonored just sitting and taking in the ambience, whether it was the dank sewers or drafty abandoned apartments. Distant fireworks, dogs barking, clattering trains, the chilly breeze. Loved it.https://youtu.be/fESDDLfSNkM?si=fmbnSA-GiWhIczZa
>>724050696Weepers are annoying.
>>724050696iirc this mission was designed by someone who used to make Thief fan missions
>>724020219>system shock 1 remake>flopnot according to Nightdive but hey, random /v/aggots always know best. As for the rest big names always fall for the age old trap of publishers not recognizing them as niches as thus going way overboard with budgeting (dishonored, prey, deus ex MD). Making them guaranteed financial flops no matter how well they sell As for thiefs looking glass had the same misfortune as all the other extremely early innovators: trying to survive in a micro market with brick retail being only way to sell the actual damn game. Both them and other talent like Troika would have survived in the era of Steam and the power of word of mouth good will alone
they're just kinda shit
>>724051270Yeah, CoD seems more your speed
>>724038663whoever accused Skyrim of being an imsim?for that matter, whoever accused Skyrim fans of being 200IQ gigachads?
>>724051270
>>724020938Imsim Die Hard is a cool concept, sadly poor choice of an MC so I shall be getting this on sale.
>>724020219Because they're built like normal games.They have to build them similar to Daggerfall but with Skyrim physics, a heavy reliance on randomisation and small things.It's impossible to be immersed in a world that you can know for certain where small objects are, where the environment doesn't feel like it reacts at all to you and where characters don't feel alive.There's a direct correlation between the visual fidelity and how much of the less noticeable details are important.Take 2 games, both trying to be an immersive sim but one with Daggerfall graphics and one with Skyrim. In the scenario you're outside in a city and it gets so dark that street oil lanterns are turned on. In the Daggerfall game the players imagination will fill in the gaps with them turning on, if they happen at the same time it'll kill immersion but all you need to do is enable a light source and change the texture to be "bright". In the Skyrim game, that approach is completely immersion breaking. Now you NEED to see NPCs approaching each individual post and setting it on because the level of immersion they're expecting is increased by your graphics. What is tolerable in a more lower detailed game isn't tolerable in a higher detailed game.One of the big problems these developers have, is that they start at the end. Their first "immersive sim" game is at a higher level of detail, they're not learning the medium of video game by starting at the basics, they're starting at the end. It's like trying to make an MMO with a team that has doesn't know what a packet is, you're out of your depth.Either they need to build games slowly increasing in fidelity and release them or build them internally as learning experiences but they should be 100% finished products.
>>724022459FFFFFFFFFFFFFFUCK NO
>>724020858>EYE above DXHR and Dark Messiah>Dark Messiah considered a immersive sim above any of those in the bottom row>DXMD above DXHRweak bait
>>724020219DX and niggerloop have no place on that prestigious table.
>>724052218Sorry, I meant dxmd not dx1.
>>724020219is deathloop worth playing if I liked everything else in that image?
>>724052063>DXMD above DXHRMankind Divided does the game design of Deus Ex not just better than Human Revolution, but it does it better than Deus Ex 1. You can whine all day long about how you think the story was cut short because you followed the Skyrim Arrow from beginning to end in 90 minutes, but Warren Spector's concept of depth over width is realized better in MD than in any of the other games. The best example probably being the city hub level. They use that as much as it's possible to use, in three different times of day and threat level as well. Instead of trying and failing to have three different city hubs likein the first game, they just have one, with all the detail and interactivity possible crammed in.
>>724051270>I got another job set up for me by my fence Cutty. Seems like some fat nobleman has his eyes set on some art that he can't buy himself. As usual, the place will be heavily guarded. I'll have to make this a quick get away if I want to walk out there a free man.
What even is an imsim?
game development got extremely costly and immersive simms (single player games in general) can't exploit players with loot boxes and skins and such and make profit.
>>724053064>followed the Skyrim ArrowIts mere presence is a betrayal
>>724053335it's when the game offers you multiple solutions to a particular objective. it's that simple. you can stealth your way through, you can go guns blazing, you can do the diplomatic approach, etc. the important part is that this is a DESIGN PHILOSOPHY so that means the game mechanics should encourage this sort of play. BOTW and skyrim are often times called imsims but they're not really, because they usually have a set approach to a particular problem. they may be "immersive" but they're missing the "sim" part. in a game like deus ex, you could use LAMs to blow open a door blocking your progression, pick the lock to get through, or talk to some people and figure out how to get a key. that the devs took the time to make physics for the door at all and allow it to be destroyed is an example of "imsim" design.not every game that is called an imsim is going to have these sorts of game mechanics, but as long as there is some effort made to allow the player some flexibility in how he plays the game, then people will tend to apply the label more or less liberally.
>>724053564The potential of the medium will not be realised under capitalism
>>724053335fps games that focus less on shooter part but more on story & setting
>>724020219How the fuck did they make him do that
>>724021778maybe you missed the "immersive" bit
>>724020606tf you mean, nigga?immsims are the games that require the least ampunt of critical thinkingsee Deus Exanyone can finish that piece of shit even with suboptimal skill investmentlmao"ImMsImS nEeD CrItIcAl tHiNkInG"only brainlets who are wannabe intellectuals think immersive slops are decent in any sense of the word
>>724020849>Dishonored was not that greatThe game lives and dies on its setting. If you enjoy the pseudo-victorian style and Lovecraftian elements it's the best shit since sliced bread. Otherwise I imagine it's hard to get invested. Most story heavy games are like that to some extent.
>>724053716>it's when the game offers you multiple solutions to a particular objective. it's that simple.No, it's not. Or at least, it shouldn't be.The point is that the developers look at the world as a set of interacting systems, leading to emergent gameplay. THAT is the "sim" part. In Deus Ex you can destroy the door because it's made of wood and an explosive can destroy wood.
I thought about replaying arx fatalis while drunk. Would I be able to follow quest lines or know where I was going in general? I'm not sure if the rudimentary journal is enough
>>724053678It is absolutely fitting though, considering how the story in MD was structured. The game literally turns the unobservant and over-trusting players into Useful Idiots for the regime, and when they complain about the game's simplistic anti-terror plot, they are just outing themselves. The real story of the game is entirely written between the lines, and you have to play like a paranoid conspiracy nut and dig aroung every place you're not supposed to be in, to piece it all together. You find out that all of the terrorism was just a regime-orchestrated smokescreen and the actual story of the game is about how globalist regimes are capable of manufacturing consent by manipulating populations into working against their own interest and then lying by omission in colluding news coverage.Even the BLM parallel in the game is about how those advocates resorted to riots and terrorism, emboldened by the media selectively covering them, so that the movement could die by its own hand and the population could be divided against itself, while the establishment consolidates even more power to keep the common man in line.Deus Ex 1 wanted to pretend that all of the stereotypical conspiracy theories are true. Mankind Divided's conspiracies are just happening in reality, right now. They just put a futuristic spin on it.
>>724054054>a set of interacting systems, leading to emergent gameplaytrue, I didn't mention that part. to use skyrim as an example, it doesn't feature these sorts of systems. If you cast a frost spell on the water, it doesn't create an ice surface. you can't set houses ablaze with fire magic, nor can you use it to melt ice. hilariously, they added a survival mod to the anniversary edition that adds various survival related status ailments, among them the need to regulate one's temperature. there already existed a spell called fire cloak that wreathes your character in flame; it can be used to prevent freezing while in the water, but they didn't think to allow players to use it to regulate their temperature outside of it, so the only way to stay warm while trudging through the tundra is to bring certain foods that stave off the cold or dart between sources of fire.in comparison, botw does have the physics, but I don't think they're ever really used in any meaningful way. relatively deep systems, shallow application. a game like dishonored doesn't have these sorts of systems, either, but it generally offers a few ways to lethally and non-lethally deal with your target, so the design begets the aforementioned flexibility, and the tools and abilities offer players the ability to kill foes in myriad ways.emergent gameplay is sometimes, but not always, a feature of these games.
>>724051430As soon as I saw the MC I decided not to buy it. It also looks cartoony as fuck which is missing the point of IMMERSIVE sims
>>724020219I refuse to believe that Mankind Divided was a full game and that we weren't scammed. >finished human revolution and the missing link dlc>excited to see what adam will do in MD>nothing ever happens except for some clone breadcrumbs, a single boss fight and a cliffhanger endingI never asked for this.
>>724020219Immersive Sims are just a type of ARPG.
>>724054952Imsims do not get their immersion from graphics. Dishonored is also highly stylised.
>>724055247Square took resources away from it to invest into that flopped Avengers live service and then got mad when the rushed and unfinished game they forced out didnt sell a bazillion copies and killed Deus Ex.DONT YOUR FUCKING LOVE OUR CORPORATE OVERLORDS?
This thread just goes to show that "Immersive Sim" is a stupid term that doesnt tell anything about the games its describing. The anons posting here cant eve agree on what games are and arent imsims
>>724055704the sad thing is that I don't think any single game has truly realized a pinnacle of imsim design. most of the games held in high regard as great examples of the genre/design philosophy are usually flawed in various ways, and it just seems like we'll never get the piece de resistance, the citizen kane of imsims. so yeah I don't blame you for thinking it's a stupid term, it's sort of poorly defined, and nobody's really trying to make games like it anymore. hell you might even argue that certain concepts like "emergent gameplay" are themselves pretty fucking nebulous.
>>724055572it's not the graphics exactly, more that it looks like LE QUIRKY VIDEOGAME instead of a real place that could exist. Dishonored didn't have that problem
>>724030583I don't understand how you can train a cat to do that.
>>724047250if it has rpg faggotry then it's not an immersive sim (this includes System Shock 2)
>>724020219>immersive simfuck off
>>724053335>>724039181>>724057640>>724055704brainlets filtered by the genre name before they even get to the high IQ gameplay contained therein
>>724030583Seconding this>>724038217>>724035057I'll check that one out, thanks anon.
>>724020858>>724044898>>724050072Underworld Ascendant is WAY better than people give it credit for. Yes it's got some jank and was very bad on launch but after updates and a few mods it's pretty good. Being able to burn literally any object made of wood, even if it's an entire fortress is something no other immersive sim has attempted. It's got some really clever design held back by poor execution
>>724054002>world runs on whale oil>whales are also linked to the occult/spirit world in some way, no telling what their rapidly being hunted to extinction will portend>world is also weirdly empty, only one empire made up or a collection of smallish islands>only other landmass is a massive continent full of heinous shit that hardly anyone comes back from>the "church" is a cult of militant anti-deists>victorian british aesthetic but everyone has american accents, also Roger Sterling is in it for some reasonDelightfully weird kino for me
>>724060025Yeah Dishonored is great.
Why does Dihonored 2 got so much hate anyway?
>>724035057thanks, gonna pick it up in the halloween sale
>>724020606This.Fuck the mainstream sheep who can't appreciate these games. I do and will keep playing them
Is Peripetia a good immsim?
>>724020219>games with multiple sequels>flopsThe only ones that flopped in OP deserved it.
>>724053934did you finish deus ex?
>>724062965No.
>>724020858This is the best tier list i have ever seen. Wow
Prey was kino. How could anyone find it was bad? Bet it was normalfags who tried to shoot every phantom and nightmare without even thinking of alternate solutions
>>724062965>PeripetiaPeripeteia
>>724052772depends, niggerloop has one solution you have to figure out. just get the prey dlc instead, there you have one optimized run, but other runs are possible too
>>724033537>with simpler level designGood job outing yourself to not playing them, MD has objectively the best level design in the whole franchise.
>>724062965It's pretty decent from what I've seen so far. Just try it out yourself anon.
>>724063463>get Typhon psychic superpowers>game is a literal blast now>but turrets all try to kill me>which also doesn't matter because I just blast them instantly
>>724063609>early accessNaaaah. A game needs at least a complete SP campaign before I play it.
>>724063463unironically filtered, it's that simple
>>724063796Then just pirate it and you like what you see, support the dev. I do that all the time/
>>724063893That's reasonable enough.
>>724063893Even pirating it would be out of the question. I'm not going to ruin the first experience by playing the game in an unfinished state. Hell I'm still waiting to play CP 2077 because I'm holding out hope for a moon level update.
>>724020219>tfw almost done through Prey and have Mankind Divided next on my listReally good gaming time. Also dropped CP2077 because it wasn't what I thought it was
>>724064104haha that looks like my peepee when I wiggle it
>>724039009The answer is you can't be cause mainstream audiences are NPC cattle who can't ever use their brain
Is Deus Ex MD worth playing despite being an incomplete game?
>>724064056>unfinished stateI don't know anon, I've been playing Gloomwood and Ultrakill and they're fantastic games even if they're still in EA. Peripeteia is like that too, even though I might have some complaints for it.
>>724020219imsims need a new fresh setting to reinvigorate the genreif you're thinking of making one and it's sci-fi make it something else instead and even if it isn't fantastic people will still be interested
>>724040070I dropped the game around when you get the magic helmet and I'll tell you why. The gameplay was not interesting and there was just no reason for me to be interested in or care about anything going on. The little shapeshifting spiderthings are not interesting enemies since I just walk into a room, get sneak attacked to take unavoidable damage and then I hit them with a wrench to kill them and that's it. The bigger enemies just instantly teleport right on top of you if you aggro them so there's no fun in choosing an advantageous location or trying to set traps to slow them down or anything. If you say "well then just avoid them" then the game becomes the shittiest most boring stealth game imaginable where literally anything else is more worth your time. And after walking up and down the prescribed hallways with nothing but these two enemies for no reason other than because the objectives say I have to and collecting trash to turn into cubes I just dropped it since I had no desire to keep playing and there was no narrative draw either. All the components that make up a game in Prey are bad and it never does anything to make itself more than the sum of its parts.
>>724053934Just from my friend group I can tell you people who don't play imsims see the amount of options they have to solve every problem and get choice paralysis then drop the game. Its not about it being to hard to play, they don't want to think past whatever the game tells them to think.
>>724064690Imsim in an ACME Looney Toons town about pranking people. 50€ + tip for the consulting.
>>724064136The best aspect of C2077 is that it has very few invisible walls and a pretty good movement system. So, unlike games like Hitman, you can just go anywhere and climb anything.Other than that, it's overly scripted cinematic slop. About half of the quests you can just accidentally break by making the mistake of thinking that you can choose to play any way you want.
>bro periepteia is le goodFuck no. It's fucking awful. Shit level design, broken mechanics, r*dditoid writing, it's got it all.I was hoping for a good indie deus ex like but I got a total piece of shit instead.Rip Core Decay, that seemed promising.Guess we're literally never getting a good indie deus ex like.
>>724064842Sorry but level 4 is so good that it's goated forever.
>>724020858All of the BioShock games are not imsims, there is only one way to compete every objective.
>>724064832>About half of the quests you can just accidentally break by making the mistake of thinking that you can choose to play any way you want.Holy fuck this is exactly my sentimentI wanted actual freedom and to interact with most things like an immsim instead I get a movie game that isn't even close to good as actual movies
>>724064690MacGyver: The Official Video Game. Game is crammed to the brim with interacting systems and a non-recipe-based dynamic crafting system where you can just put things together and the way those things interact with each others' properties and systems are what constitute the gadgets that are produced, not what some game designer decided would be craftable.
It's time to accept that stacking 10 boxes on top of each other to enter a destructable air vent is just not fun in itself. Deus Ex games are good because they're fun, they have a cool setting, they have a cool aesthetic and vibes, imsim crap be damned. System Shock games aren't good because they're fucking boring, the gameplay is a drag and the setting is the most generic shit of all time.
>>724064963>but level 4 is so good that it's goated forever.Sure if you're a retard with no taste.
>>724065234Uh huh
>>724065234Stop crying anon.
>>724065002The most annoying thing about Cyberjunk is that all the objects and clutter have physics because they like to randomly explode or fly around the room when you walk past them but you still aren't allowed to touch or pick up anything. One might think it's a poor but deliberate design decision but seeing all the rest of the problems with the game I genuinely think they were just too incompetent to figure out how to do it or couldn't figure out how to animate it correctly or something.
>>724040070NTA but it's got a solid premise that's wasted on mediocre execution. Enemies become a non-issue after speccing things like neuroshock or upgrading the stun pistol and shotty. Even the supposed 'Nightmare' can be dealt with fairly easily using combat reflex and spamming recycler charges. Repeat playthroughs only really exist for ending paths because keeping all your neuromods renders you absurdly powerful, even on higher difficulties. Sure, you can do the various challenge achievements by gimping yourself in one aspect or another. I'll give it that. Also who's idea was it to basically fuck the mana limit by making a sidequest that gives you free refills anywhere after you finish it?
Cyberpunk absolutely suffers from how fucking lifeless it is. You've got this brand amazing world and you can't do anything except shoot random spawns and do quests.
>>724065365>noo why can i not pick the empty beer bottle up so #unimmersivesim
>>724020219Deathloop has got to be one of the biggest disparities of journalist reviews vs what it actually is in gaming. It's just so convoluted and jank and not really enjoyable to play, especially when several early hours you are constantly bombarded with tutorial screens.
Goddamn this thread is a rollercoaster. I should replay thief, or maybe arx or ultima. It has been a while
>>724064460Yes, go in knowing it's essentially half a game and give the story a fair shake past "aug lives matter." and actually read the notes of plot relevant characters. MD has the best gameplay of any modern ImSim and feels fucking amazing once your maxed out until the final mission that shit is just boring.
>>724065486Yes? Why can't you?
>>724065079Stacking 10 boxes to get over an obstacle and thinking you're smart for it when actually the developers planned for that all along IS fun. Deus Ex is elevated by its setting and story definitely but it would be worse if it didn't have the options it has. Just makes games that have have good level design, good gameplay, good music, a good setting and a good story all at the same time. Simple as.
>>724065597I wondered for a while why the final mission feels to shit to play and I figured it out. It's very arbitrarily linear in its structure. It feels like Resident Evil 6 or something. The level doesn't feel like a place, and so it's difficult to get your bearings on where you are, where you're trying to get to and what could be the possible routes to get there. It's the polar opposite of levels like Vandenberg in DX1 or the Criminal Past expansion.
>>724065621Why would I? Do you pick them up IRL too like a fucking homeless drunkard? It's called immersive sim because you immerse yourself into the game's world, not because you do fucktarded shit like a faggot.
>>724065486Imagine being proud of being worse than 20 year old games. Even being worse than Bethesda games.
>>724065962I immerse myself by doing immersive things like picking up shit.Can't believe we have literal retards here defending having less of a game.
>>724065869>Stacking 10 boxes to get over an obstacle and thinking you're smart for it when actually the developers planned for that all along IS fun.Wrong. Stacking 10 boxes to get over an obstacle and the developers never thought that's possible is the fun bit. Especially when they then later release a patch that adds ladders outside the intended level geometry because players who were too curious got out of bounds and got stuck.imsim design philosophy is about implementing dynamically interacting systems, and then everyone being surprised about how much freedom that gives you. Looking Glass never thought that it would be possible to block someone shooting an arrow at you by throwing an object at the arrow mid-flight. They never thought that you could rocket-jump by drinking a slowfall potion and shooting the ground with a fire arrow. But those are the things that are possible because the systems can produce those results. Nobody put that there on purpose, and that's the magic.
>>724066050>a game is less of a game if you can't pick up useless objects to throw them aroundSure, buddy, if that's your definition of fun then go on.
>>724064460
>>724066652Kek
>>724030583I think Rain World is kind of underrated game among immersive sims because most people think it's just some sort of metroidvania which isn't exactly true.
>>724020219imsims are fundamentally flawed because they are expressly designed to allow any player to access their content somehow regardless of skill investment or whatever, which means in reality you need nothing to progress in them. like in Prey (2017) which is probably the best game the genre has to offer, they can't expect every player to be able to hack into a room so they put a convenient vent nearby every single time. these games never just lock you out completely and go like "deal with it" the way they should.
>>724066895how about you keep your shitty tranny game within its own thread
>>724067346>these games never just lock you out completely and go like "deal with it" the way they should.I did find one instance of the game locking me out. I did a zero neuromod playthrough and there's a cage with some stuff inside it, and the entrance is blocked by heavy crates. So, I collected all of the gas containers in the level and piled them near the crates, then detonated the pile. The force was enough to move the crates and I was able to squeeze inside. So, I didn't have access to any of the intended mechanics meant by the devs for me to use to get inside. Like super strength or object mimicry. I could only use physics.
>>724068012>I did find one instance of the game locking me out. I did a zero neuromod playthroughI did too. and that anon clearly did not. the fun is make several playthroughs with different skills & tools. not something simpletons get
>>724051430I'm searching on google but can not find. Link plz?
>>724068098lol dumb robot
>>724070961>lol dumb robotThat's not a robot.It's a woman.
>>724053934you didn't beat the game.>niggaseething brownoids aren't the target audience
Hhhmm sweaty, there's one that didn't flop.
>>724030583It was mentioned once but Ctrl Alt Ego is pure kino in terms of gameplay. There isn't too much story and I hope you're alright with bri'ish humor but it's genuinely great and it pains me the game doesn't get mentioned very often.
>>724072073I think i ruined it for myself because after a while i just started doing suicide runs to learn where items were and how the monster AI works
>>724040070It's got a good ship design and a few cool powers, but ultimately it feels less like emergent gameplay and more like "Hint hint wink wink, here are 2 options to get into this room but also you're super clever so there's a clearly scripted third option." Also the writing was abysmal. And no, before the pseuds get mad, I'm not talking about the ending. I'm talking about everything that happens during the game.
>>724039009I wouldn't design with popularity in mind because that would mean trying to appeal to the functionally retarded masses.
>>724020219>immersive simWhy do limp-dicked faggots of your likes either coin or use senseless terms such as this? It's like other failed catchphrases/forced memes around here like "Safe xxxx" or "xxxx Adult", only it's journo pundits the first to use those terms.
>>724072784A lot of games are much better for players who have no idea how games work, what game design is and how to exploit the limited nature of programming game mechanics.
>>724073046Because four syllables is easier and faster to say and everyone knows what you're talking about very quickly. Nobody wants to constantly specify "games made with the design philosophy of maximizing dynamic systems-based interaction between mechanics and properties which facilitates emergent gameplay, rather than intention-based design where developers manually implement an enumerated array of hand-crafted choices."What's really the problem is when retards misuse a term so it no longer means what the fucking words mean. Like Roguelike. A game that isn't like Rogue is described as a Roguelike. Good job.
>>724062431>somehow... delilhah has returned, and she was dishonored, toofiring the outsider over his xbla gamertag being trannydestroyer
>>724073368>Because four syllables is easier and faster to say and everyone knows what you're talking about very quickly.And... what are you talking about, then? "Immersive sim" as a descriptor for anything is the most vague way to describe anything. 'Sim' in the term stands for 'simulation', so it's even redundant as a descriptor since being mersive is one of the inner qualities of what a simulation strives for. It's as descriptive for a video game genre as to say"Video game genre".
>>724053934>youtube comment writing>slopYou're brown.
>>724053934Unfathomably incorrect
>>724072073It was a great horror game regardless.
>>724066157Nah, he's right. More interactive elements make game worlds better.
>>724020219deathpoop is considered an imsim? i never found it compelling to play it was mostly boring =/
>>724020219Deathloop is a fun 8/10. It's not even remotely imm-sim
>>724020849>leftist writingr/pol retard detetected>prey had a shitty cartoonys texture style muh realism retard detected
>>724027162Only faggots don't like a good ass supernatural tomb level>stealth gameIt's a THIEF game first and foremost, and stealing from the undead is way cooler than robbing random niggas with golden buckets on their heads
>>724020219Immersive Sims don't exist. There is no common list of traits beyond, "made by Looking Glass Studios or people connected to Looking Glass Studios".
>>724030583Baldur's Gate 3
>>724076941This. All these games are different. I can accept deus ex being an "immersive sim" as it's genuinely that unique from other games that it could have it's own genre. But shock games and dishonoreds are just action rpg, thief is a stealth game, vtmb is just an rpg like fallout 2, but in first person.
>>724044382More than that the genre was built directly out of the Ultima franchise.Warren Spector got his real start working for Origin, and Ultima 5/6/7 saw the concept of a game world that was actually simulated start to mature more than anywhere else.
>>724020219The fuck are you talking about, most of those were either successful? Dishonored series & Deus ex were massive successes.
>>724020219>immersive simsthe most immersive sims has always been 2 but 1 is also good
>>724023072The nonsensical submarine level was about the only time the devs were trying to have some fun in that game. And the second half of Life of the Party goes full James Bond, so it's not even that out there.
>>724069357Filename: Skin Deep.
>>724020858I'm not sure Bioshock Infinite counts as a Im Sim, especially if games like Alien Isolation and Pathologic don't count which I don't think they do, but they are closer than Bioshock Infinite
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2waerLTRhg
I never played thief before is it good?
>>724078501Janky like few things are, but once you get into it, it's really good. One of my favorite games and I played it first time in 2017
>>724020219>caring about old gamescounting to potato
>>724079801Zoom Zoom
>>724078501It's a fantastic game, but keep an open mind. You'll have much more fun if you don't try to 100% force yourself into a stealth playstyle. Be sneaky where it makes sense, dungeon crawl where it makes more sense, and go nuclear on your enemies where that is what the story calls for.
>>724079801You sound like a giant faggot.
>>724020219Deathloop good?
>>724039009Fantasy setting with shit tons of classes like in ToME
>>724020858Who the fuck thinks STALKER is an imsym to begin with?
>>724072073A boring buggy mess, no idea how anyone found it scary when the monster's AI was incredibly predictable and it's just a scavenger hunt.
>>724081508Me GAMMA enjoyer
>>724063463Yeah, Prey was kick ass... Shit had me viewing office supplies and coffee mugs with paranoid suspicion for days after I first played it.
>>724072150I second thisIt's one of those games that you keep in your library for months if not years and when you eventually pick it up curse yourself for putting it off for so long
>>724081508the same people who think fallout and skyrim are imsims.
>>724081287It's fine, not as good as Arkane's classics though.
>>724020219Bad marketing + them going against industry trends in one way or another.Dishonored 1 was a rare example of an immersive sim that was actually a huge financial success, and that was mainly due to the fact that it had outstanding marketing. Dishonored 2 had dogshit marketing and it translated to dogshit sales despite it being almost as good as the first game.
>>724020858The Bioshock games are immersive sim adjacent, but not true immersive sims.The Nu-Hitman games are genuinely better candidates for being called immersive sims.
>>724043962Nu-Hitman is more of an immersive sim than the older Hitmans. Nu-Hitman is the only Hitman where you can turn on sinks and use vending machines, and these actually have mechanical functions rather than just being cool details.
>>724020219They require a brain
>>724055897>if it has rpg faggotry then it's not an immersive simUltima Underworld is absolutely an immersive sim and directly influenced games like Thief and Deus Ex
Something I always found funny about immersive sims is that in every single one of them, stealth is objectively the best and most rewarding way to play.They really are just stealth games with RPG elements.
>>724053934Why would you lie, nigger.
Mankind Divided was awesome but was kneecapped by that microtransaction fiasco and dumbass reviewers who rushed through everything and claimed the game was only 15 hours long.
>>724084537>dumbass reviewers who rushed through everything and claimed the game was only 15 hours longReviewers basically have to play games like that due to the nature of their job. They have to rush to the credits to get their review out on time.This is usually why story driven cinematic games do so well with reviewers, but games that require you to engage with the side content or are more gameplay and replay value focused do worse.
Are immersive sims just stealth games where youre also good at combat?
>>724085795Kind of a vague descriptor since lots of stealth games have combat be an option too.Probably the best way to describe them is that both stealth and combat have to be equally valid, and the game has to have RPG elements like upgrade systems, choice and consequences, and attention to detail in lore and world building.Other big aspect of im sims is realistic level design. Levels have to be designed to feel like actual functional places people could inhabit rather than just feeling like video game levels. It’s why bathrooms are an immersive sim staple.
>Thread alive this long without anybody mentioning Gothic Nigga do you even im sim? Supposedly Archolos now has proper mages guild plot path as well.
>>724077524Thank you. Not quite what I was expecting, what makes it Die Hard?
>>724086532Why are thirdies so hairy? nasty
>>724072073>release what is essentially a proof of concept techdemo that absolutely worked>2 years later not even an announence of the new gameokay but what they're doing?
>>724020219Deus ex, dishonored, thief and bioshock were huge successes
>>724087170Deus Ex and Thief were only modest successes financially. They weren’t games that everyone and their mother was playing.Bioshock is an FPS rather than an immersive sim.Dishonored 1 was a huge success, but the other entries flopped.
>imsims need stealth!I have not once needed to stealth in either System Shocks.
>>724086645worse, he's sh*talianx
>>724020858>BioShockwhats it like being a turbo normy faggot?
bros I'm gonna play the system shook series this weekend. Do I lose anything if I just play the enhanced edition of SS1 over classic?
To be fair you need a high IQ to play immersive sims
>>724087416Not don’t “need” stealth to beat any immersive sim, but the point is that every single immersive sim has stealth as an option. It’s usually the better option too since you get to overhear more conversations and stealth usually produces better outcomes.
>>724044009Dishonored fails at that very hard, the only choice you have is to stab people in the back or choke them out which is essentially killing them because they never wake up, it's faux choice
>>724086616It's pretty much Die Hard in spess, your ship gets boarded by bad guys and you have to go around barefoot taking them out, there's even a mechanic with you being barefoot. Although if you're an action flick connoisseur if we forget the no shoes thing, it's closer to Under Siege (Seagal kino) than Die Hard.
>>724030583Is this fucking real?
>>724087853It's not that "stealth is an option". That makes it sound like some designer sat down and thought: "We're going to add stealth gameplay mechanics to this game" No, that's not why imsim design includes stealth. It's because "seeing" and "hearing" are systems. Making noise is too, and being seen is as well. You implement all of the main ways that humans interact with the real world as part of your game world's simulation, and to make that simulation feel immersive those systems need enough depth. And so, naturally, stealth simply emerges out of that design, via the natural synergy of the player's freedom to avoid being seen and heard by enemies that are able to see and hear.
>>724086513magic was always shit. it's just a power trip
>>724020219Low IQ Society
I need someone to come up with an actual Die Hard insim, you need to infiltrate 30 randomly generated floors with limited ammo and a set of objectives
>>724020606>>724063331>>724064795>>724071574>>724073678>>724084530do imsim niggas seriously believe their games require thought to complete? quick saving alone makes them super brute forceable and even then most of these games aren't that hard to begin with, they are made so any retard could beat them, literally
>>724037001It's an interesting point.It explains why sandboy games like Minecraft are a hit, AAA cinematic experiences are a hit, but in-between games like immersive sims are harder to sell.Ambivalence getting in the way of marketing.
>>724020626they actually need checkpoint/limited use save stations (could be items too) because quick save quick load isn't real game design and destroys the decision making process
>>724088131>Under Siege>goodin fact>Any Seagal movie>good
>>724088549It may not require thought thought like you think but it's still more thought than the mainstream NPCs plebs are capable of that why they don't play themI spit and look down upon the normalfag cattle
>>724088936I know it's hip to bash on Seagal but denying he had some good flicks is pure contrarianism.
>>724089007the older ones maybe, all the newer ones like Arkane/Eidos games have waypoints that show where to go and tell what to do, it's not that hard at all
>>724089276nigga fuck you the only reason anyone likes Under Siege is the cake stripper sceneIt's a dogshit movie through and though and it's like Seagal saw die hard and thought "yeah I can do that better my character just has to be literally perfect I'm sure the audience will enjoy that more if I just walk into random rooms and karate slap a few thousand people without breaking a single sweat"
>>724089584>it's a dogshit movie>lists all the reasons why it's good
>>724088082Knocking people out is less convenient because you can only do so by either choking them out or hitting them with a sleep dart. You have way more options when it comes to killing. That’s the trade off.
>>724087416since when did they even have stealth
>>724088268True, but a lot of immersive sims incentivise stealth. Thief literally decided to turn itself into a dedicated stealth game late in development just because they realised that the stealth mechanics were the most fleshed out aspects of the game.
>>724088771Personally, I think more games should do what the Hitman games do and make it so that higher difficulties limit the amount of quick saves you can make per level.
>>724053716That is probably the single best explanation of the concept I've seen, thanks anon
>>724020858Underworld ascendant is an F and bioshocks are not imsim. Invisible war probably deserves C. You're missing Hitman, cruelty squad, and picrel which are all at least A-tier.
>>724086513>Archolos now has proper mages guild plot path as well.Huh? When did they add it?
>>724088771The problem is, no one wants to restart a level when they jump off a rope arrow and the mantling mechanic bugs out. Checkpoint systems mean the game mechanics either need to be simple enough to avoid jank, or forgiving enough that mistakes aren't too punishing. An imsim is like the opposite of that, you need to be able to experiment.
>>724020219First 3x3 here where I love all the games. Basado.
>>724041631I played it recently and thought it was pretty good, better than Death of the Outsider by a long shot.
Here’s a question:Would it be accurate to call the Hitman games or MGS games immersive sims considering how much attention to detail they put into their worlds and how many options and different approaches you’re given in gameplay?
>>724048214this can't be right, Breath of the Wild invented burning objects and electricity
>>724076823The weird supernatural stuff is great. The zombie crypts suck.
>>724090951According to the official youtube channel approximately 8 months ago.
>>724088771>>724090669Hi.
>>724020219All of these games are top tier, except for deathloop, which i haven't played
>>724020858can someone give an explaination why each game in the bottom tier isn't considered like an immersive sim?
>>724059703Yes, the game promised some exciting things on kickstarter. Unfortunately the execution was insultingly bad down to the bitter end. Every single system was completely undercooked, it performed terribly, and it didn't even look good. It felt like an unfinished unity proof of concept more than the final installment of a legendary franchise.
>>724021043Gloomwood doesn't allow a 100% no kill run, therefore it's terrible
>>724091215...You love Deathloop?
>>724091714I feel like this has been on my wishlist for 10 years now.Is it ever coming out of EA?
>>724092063FACT: it is coming out before Project Zomboid.Hope this helped!
>>724084156GRP gun says high.
>>724092117>GRP gun says high.
>love immersive sims>can't play dishonored 2 because it crashes on startup>can't play thief because it crashes when I try to climb a ladder in the first level being an imsim fan is suffering
>>724092063Many imsims have suffered due to rushed development to meet a deadline, I welcome one that takes as much time as it needs.It's already great, and every update so far has made it better.
>>724091929I want to like it and it looks very cool granted but I'm not sure if the dev is just being lazy or something because updates are even slower than UK but at least for ultrakill you see brand new mechanics and updates being applied retroactively, while Gloom kind of just seems like>new gimmick, an hour long level expansion>enjoy
>>724091453not first person = not an imsim
>>724090951>>724091667It's not out yet, this anon is lying to you because he doesn't know what "Teaser" means.
>>724092253Doesn't thief have a billion patch versions to fix that issue? I think the dishonored problem might be caused by the startup parameters being a mind boggling 4k default
>>724091938I like it more than Thief, Deus Ex, SS and Prey.
>>724084156I'm playing Prey for the first time right now and while I think stealth is the most fun way to play it seems a lot less effective than just investing in combat abilities and shooting everything to death.
>>724078501Thief 1 and 2 are still among the best stealth games ever made, which is shocking considering their age. But making stealth games is hard, so that's probably why.
>>724088549That's cool and all, but you're brown and "carefully curated" challenge just means railroaded trash for retards.
>>724092405I'm pretty sure when I tried thief I had a community patch installedI'll have to double check
>>724092556Stealth games might be the ones that suffer the most from casualization to increase normie appeal I think, casualization towards being able to circumvent targets easily by eliminating them just makes the game worse
>>724092556IMO, they’ve aged in some ways. The AI is really exploitable and dumb thanks to how hypersensitive they are to noise. I know all stealth games have exploitable AI, but it feels too easy when you can lure them just by walking on a specific surface.
>>724091453The nuHitman games are pretty immsim adjacent, as is MGSV. No other games in either series is. The guy who said they need to be first person is wrong and retarded.
>>724092703>being able to circumvent targets easily by eliminating them just makes the game worseLethal stealth can work. The Tenchu games are full blown lethal stealth, for example.Personally, I feel as though killing enemies should be viable, but come with some kind of risk or catch. Also, it’s nice in stealth games where you have assassination missions to be able to kill the target in creative ways using the tools you’re given.
>>724092556They aren't among the best, they are the best. Nothing else really reaches that level, especially when you factor in all the FMs.
>>724064690but anon, sci-fi is just fantasy with sufficiently explained magic.
>>724093097I think games have to be built for lethal, if they're originally a thief-like where they give you ways to permanently get rid of guards on the cheap ala dishonored the stealth component ends up taking a backseat to the other systems, like the cool power combos you can use in dishonored. Dishonored handles it fine, something like Assassin's creed not really. And to clarify I don't mean eliminating as in you kill everyone but just ways to easily get rid of enemies like knocking out
>>724094790Killing and knock outs are always going to exist as a crutch until you get good enough to ghost. Ghost runs are always exclusively for the most dedicated players.
>>724092362Yeah this, you're not fully immersed to the setting unless you're seeing it through first person.
what do you think about this?
>>724096943Who wrote this and why should I care what they think?
>>724097130some rando on reddit and you don't have to care about what he thinks but ponder if you will for the sake of sparking discussion because very few times do I come across something I think worth sharing on fucking reddit of all places, but this popped up when I searched for opinions on what even is an imsim.
>>724087416SS1 is a dungeon crawler buddy
>>724091714I beat the demo for you and decided to wait till full release
>>724097271>some rando on redditThen nothing he says matters.
There's nothing immersive about Deathpoop.
>>724092603>you're brownI am asian>"carefully curated" challenge just means railroaded trash for retards.You have a false sense of superiority because you play games that let you go either left or right and you think this insane high iq player momento, in reality any moron can solve this slop, especially if it's a modern release
>>724097729>I am asianChinks, gooks and SEAmonkeys are honorary browns, just like nips are honorary whites.>You have a false sense of superiority There's nothing false about it. I'm smarter than you and have better taste in games than you.>slopYou will never be a real person with an opinion that matters.
>>724020219Gamers dopamine receptors are totally fried by social media.Immersing yourself in another world requires some effort on the side of the user. That is why imsims will always be a niche genre, for the elite.
>>724083968It doesn't even have fps mode.
>>724098514gibs a copy of this book pls
>>724098576Being first person has nothing to do with being an immsim by design.
>>724098731Ok retard.
>>724097271go back
https://youtu.be/vCRjaONyWuY?si=mHImIU9JlFJ3bhtc
>>724099145Immsim design philosophy is about interacting mechanics to create emergent gameplay, not about being a first person stealth-ish game.
>>724020219it's the type of game that only appeals to people who care a lot about video games, and despite everything you heard on here, many vide game developers do in fact care a lot about video games.
>>724098690Literally just google "the shallows pdf"
>"immersive sim">it's not immersive, nor a sim
>400 posts in and anons cant even agree on what is or isnt an immersive simAbsolutely worst name possible for a genre. It doesnt mean anything. Its like you just put two random words together
>>724020219because boring people get bored
>>724100225It's not a genre.
>>724020219they are niche, but require lots of attention and work to make good so making back what they cost is usually hard
>>724044398I just bought first game because of you and becsuse i found out redditors crying about main developer being full blown alt right nazi l*---*l
>>724020219>system shock demaster cover>deadloop>dishonored 2jesus christ i wish normalfags would stick to hero shooters gachas and battle royales
>>724039009>make it popular >the genre goes to shit>don’t let it be popular>it’s forgottenThis hellish middle ground is probably the best for it, let some studio make a 8/10 then promptly die after it sells fuck all
>>724101281>greg coomer>coomer
>>724020858>Bioshock InfiniteWhat the fuck is this?First Bioshock is already puishing it a lot, but fucking Infinite?
>>724041476Having played the Remake and then 2, I liked System Shock 1 more. I didn't like the RPG mechanics added in 2
>>724053064Fucking this!
>>724020219Is a level based structure key to be included in the genre? I always liked when elements of imsim were tied into more sandbox style games. I'm looking forward to PVKK
>>724064460Yes. Its best deus ex game in terms if gameplay/graphics/world design.
>>724086875Actually..there is a video teaser on youtube and it looks like its gonna have scifi elements like SOMA?
>>724020858isn't fnv an immersive sim?
>>724106861No.
>>724022964Yes.What typically happens is the first entry does well, then they overbudget and overscope the sequel so it doesn't do as well then the corpo overlords say it's a failure and the series gets shitcanned until the cycle begins again
Iunno but system shock 2 aged poorly as fuck, I went to play the remaster with a friend and I could only think just how bored I was the entire time of the level design meanwhile my first experience with the game was fantastic closer to its original release and I had many fond memories of the game.
>>724020938What's wrong with picrel? I liked it and 100% it.
>>724078501I wouldn't play Thief Gold if I were you, too much bloat in the way of extra levels that drag on. Thief TDP is the way to go
Gloomwood is crap compared to the Dark Mod. It's not even a Thief like really. I wish it would just be canned and instead Thomas Porta would work on Serpens Eternal Thievery. It's barely stealth oriented, but more survival horror kind of stealth oriented. It's a betrayal of the concept of Thief entirely. I don't hate tactical stealth action or anything like that either. But I would like the concept of Thief to remain true to its nature. The less focus on action there is, the more clear the vision becomes.
>>724038663>>724051392God I would have fucking loved to see bethesda at their peak around oblivion/skyrim time make an immersive sim
>>724111058Song of The Caverns is the only great addition in Gold. The two other levels are bad, and the changes to the Lost City just make it worse and introduce plot holes.
>>724111535I thought Gloomwood was just its own thing. It only took the visual aesthetic from the Dark Engine didn't it?
>>724111058You'd have a point if not for the Opera house which is far and away the best mission in the latter half of the game, and the only good mission in the latter half besides undercover.
>>724111535>Gloomwood is crap compared to the Dark Mod. It's not even a Thief like really.Despite the marketing, that's not what it's supposed to be. It takes some inspirations from Thief, but it's also an action horror game and it has way more going on mechanically than Thief. It's awesome for what it is, and I can't wait for it to come out.>>724111546Bethesda design philosophy is basically the opposite of immsim design philosophy, so I don't think they'd make anything good.
>>724102461This.
>>724111058>I wouldn't play Thief Gold if I were youI played it and I came out not being able to distinguish something that people apparently hated. Now I just think of Gold as if it was the intended whole game and I even do Thieves Guild playthroughs every time I play Thief. Weird, just apart of the experience for me now.
>>724110349If SS2 is dated then what exactly surpassed it? please don't say Prey 2017. Because no.
>>724113678System shock 1 remake for me was what did it for my 3x3 and I did the switch. I think theres things I like from both games but I will be guilty honest that I really loved the pixel poly aesthetic of the remake.
>>724040070>it was all just a dream bro
>>724064460HR and MD have mediocre level design and boring AAA gameplay. Even IW has more ways of approaching objectives and more tools to use.
>>724106861If the piss Deus Ex games are B and C, then FNV is a top tier imsim. Fucking Sonic, Infamous, CoD, LBP, all belong in A.
>>724020219Deathloop is not an immersive sim and it fucking kills me because it easily could have been an open playground but it's actually an extremely linear mission based game.
>>724039009>>724043914Capitalizing on friendslop seems like the best way yeah, but actual mission based friendslop seems hard to make and keep people interested. I know that void game is friendslop with a focus on completing an open world level thing but it seems much less popular than short 2-3 hour rogueish games ala Lethal
>>724076823>stealing shit from brainless corpses that don't give a shit about the item you're stealing is cooler than stealing from a guarded manor or castleWhat kind of logic is this?>It's a THIEF game firstAnd thieving is defined by taking someone else's personal property. The zombies, ghosts, burricks and craymen have no personal property.
does blood west count as an imsim? i beat it a few months ago and it was one of the most 7/10 games I've ever played. Competent but not something I'd replay annually like DX or Thief.those guns sure felt and sounded nice tho.
>>724116094Hard to say. I feel like it's a more open-ended quest based stealth action RPG. It's somewhat inspired by games like Bioshock I feel but I just don't see the imsim design
You guys convinced me I’m going to play thief gold over the weekend
>>724020938Immersive Sims is a rather niche genre which averages 4 games per decade but that number has been dwindling because Arkane is the only AAA studio still developing them. They were pressured to develop Redfall due to Zenimax chasing the live service fade and their next game is Blade which is confirmed to be a immersive sim hybrid, not fully. The future of this genre is bleak if you exclude indie slop.
>>724020858>EYE at the same level as bioshock 2 and system shock>Dark messiah lower than EYEcom the fuck on, I am full cycles of guilt memelord but you can't really compare EYE to normal games
Things are bad. Could the state of imsims get any worse?
>>724039009Mandatory down time to edge and goon for 5 minutes feature the girls and creatures in the game in an extremely sexualized manner, pumping dopamine to keep you glued to the game.
I kinda suck at vidya, how hard is thief?
>>724116094You should check out Gone Rogue if you like stealth action RPGs. Except it's not an FPS, isometric view and closer to real time tactics I suppose.That one fails to be an 'immsim' but it's still decent enough regardless. I just wish there was more freedom in how to complete levels. Definitely not TTLG design in that sense, maybe the sequel Deserter will improve on making it less linear. The prologue of that one has a free demo by the way.
>>724117084EYE is unique
>>724118590you just have to sneak around enemies, but it's a real stealth game because if you get caught you're fucking dead if you can't get away. the combat is ass so that means every combat encounter is potentially life threatening. according to oldfags, this is a good thing because it means you can't rely on combat to circumvent the stealth. while they have a point, it's also true that the combat is fucking ass and that's a major downside. just don't ever fight, stay to the shadows and you'll be fine.
>>724030583who cares about sims how can that cat do that wtf???????????
>>724119281that's not a cat that's actually the pokemon ditto in the form of a cat, using the move swords dance to increase its physical attack power.
>>724020219normalfags don't actually like videogamesthey don't engage with themimmersive sims are peak video games as opposed to movie"games" or dopamine darkpattern hamsterwheels like gachas, mmos, esportslop
>>724119239>according to oldfags, this is a good thingI'm still torn about whether intravenous got it right. Because it's definitely still in the purist direction by being focused on shadow intensity and sound. But you can practically just Hotline Miami levels which just still feels like a net negative on the experience at the same time. I loved intravenous 2 and consider it far better than SC Blacklist. But I just believe in player punishment for being less careful is all.
>>724020219Get woke go broke
Dishonored didn't flop
>>724111671Even Filcher is more true to Thief than Gloomwood. Doesn't mean it doesn't have it's own set of flaws. But It's the only one I played that's not the Dark Mod that made me think that I was playing something close to Thief.>>724111801I'm not totally a snob to games that do the gameplay of Thief but with an altered approach. For example Noirmancer looks like an interesting alternative way to make a Thief game, it uses super hero powers but not enough to trivialise the stealth gameplay like Dishonoured did. I mean I gotta wait for the demo on that one to form opinions but I'm already seeing real Thief DNA within it and Gloomwood is just entirely alien from that experience all together.
>>724122870Gloomwood isn't actually trying to be Thief. It's not a Thief-like or a Thief clone. Its name is not a synonym for Thief like Filcher. You can pull inspiration from a game without trying to completely copy it.
>>724114183> it's actually an extremely linear mission based gameThen it’s like every other arkane game.
>>724088549Uh ohh meltyyy
>>724020858I know the plot sucks, but do people really see Dishonored 2 as inferior to 1? I remember the missions feeling pretty open ended to me (aside from the witches breaking the rhythm of the gameplay)
>>724022585Nah, Dishonored 2 had horrible marketing and was terribly optimized, yes, but Mankind Divided was killed by marketing, controversies over DLC and the word-of-mouth on the game literally being only -and literally- just half of an actual game.
>>724088549im-sims allow white people to jerk each other off about how clever and sophisticated they are for playing boring stealth games. Think of it as self-congratulatory identity formation through a targeted marketing campaign. The problem is that marketing campaigns are supposed to sell product, but im-sims are boring and the genre is highly stagnant since it consists of clones of 2 games made in the 90s. Therefore, unlike, for example, Apple’s marketing campaign it has failed miserably to sell enough to sustain the genre. Apple products sell because they are good products with a use case. Cultivating a consumer identity is not enough.
>>724020219Tears of the Kingdom is unironically the most successful immersive sim ever
>>724098274>Chinks, gooks and SEAmonkeys are honorary browns, just like nips are honorary whites. I am central asian>>You have a false sense of superiority >There's nothing false about it. I'm smarter than you and have better taste in games than you. >>slop >You will never be a real person with an opinion that matters.You have indian tier delusions
>>724125194This is one of the brownest posts I've ever read on /v/.
>>724126697I’m glad I’m not the only one who sees through this charade.
