How much of this series would you say is an (true) "adventure" game? (Adventure as in a strong focus on one of: Puzzles/Problem Solving, Exploration/Navigation, Platforming/Traversal)
b-bump...
lol.
>>724186203There’s always been a focus on puzzles, even in the new ones. That’s why it was always better than DMC and Ninja Gaiden.
>>724187936>That’s why it was always better than DMC and Ninja Gaiden.If somebody had told me that. I would have played the series earlier. Because all action games feel virtually the same, almost barely like cohesive experiences, and more like the effective equivalent of fighting against bots in a fighting game training room. Even something like Ninja Gaiden which I actually consider better than the average action game, has some annoying what I call "typical action game annoyances" that make it so that, an action game can almost never carry itself on its action gameplay alone. Its not deep enough and by "depth" I dont mean how much time you can spend with something or learn something new. You could spend 50 years counting sand on a beach and find something new in the sand, or find a new type of grain everytime.Im talking about the base level decisions and actions you have to make in an action game on a moment to moment basis. It doesnt matter how many combos you can pull off in DMC. Enemies dont fight back, so the combat is already fundamentally simpler on one end, but on the other end, generally doing different kinds of combos doesnt matter. Do whatever the fuck you want that you can get away with, because combos are the equivalent of running you combo script in a fighting game training room, but without any of the depth of a fighting game combo, such as whether it gives you oki, whether it corner carries, and how much damage it does. Its just why ill never understand DMC dicksuckers. They love the most superficial aspect of videogames, how cool something can look for how much effort a no life can put in.With Ninja Gaiden, I can unironically reduce the combat to "Hold block (and sometimes roll) until the enemy stops spamming, then spam your highest damage combo, and sometimes dont because if you attack more than 3 times sequentially, youll get stunlocked by another enemy.So having some variance can really increase the interest of an action game.
>>724187936>There’s always been a focus on puzzles, even in the new ones.I know for sure theres a decent focus on puzzles in the new one. Id argue 2018 is more along the generic AAA "here have a 10 minute puzzle every 2 hours hours, in a 20 hour game". Ragnarok is better about this I thinkHow frequent are they in the old games though? I heard the 3rd game basically abandoned puzzles completely no?
>>724188614>t. actionlet
>>724186203First two, then it went to linear slop, with braindead puzles
>>724188614grok what is blud yapping about?
>>724188614you want rhythm games. your goal is to reduce the game to a joyless sequence of inputs. play with the sound off to fully remove any semblance of fun.
>>724188981>you want rhythm games.what? what about anything i said remotely implies that? i just think action can be done in multiple different interesting ways than "spam your scripted training room highlight combo when the enemy stops attacking"would you call sin and punishment a rythm game? and you cant even use the "but you shoot stuff in dat game its different!" because theres melee there too and its fun.what about something like re4? i love crowd control in games, and it saddens me immensely how rare it is to find games that demand smart control of space in melee action games.
God of War was always the Zelda of the playstation
>>7241887652 is the most puzzle heavy, but 3 still has its fair share. Most of it is moving stuff though.
>>724189254the point is anything can be boring if you intentionally make it as boring as possible >sin and punishmenti can reduce the combat to "move in a circle until there's something in melee range, then spam your only combo, and sometimes don't because if you attack more than 3 times sequentially, you'll get shot by another enemy" >re4i can reduce the combat to "get a headshot, then a kick, except sometimes don't because if you run up to kick, you get hit by another enemy"
>>724188614You should actually try out Darksiders if you haven’t already. That game is, in my opinion, the perfect blend of combat action and puzzles, including some platforming. It’s like Zelda if combat in Zelda was actually decent.
>>724189739I have tried out DarkSiders. Interesting game, but wouldnt necessary call a good game. Lots of flaws and problems. Has the typical action adventure game problem of a puzzle essentially being "use fire to burn away webs" or something akin.
>>724189941What? There’s an entire level with portals. It’s more than just “shoot arrow to burn fire.”
>>724188614this is truei prefer guilty gear xrd or +r over any hack n slash game
>>724189626theres nothing reductive here. youre not understanding and engaging with the criticism, youre just framing it.heres what i mean.>i can reduce the combat to "get a headshot, then a kick, except sometimes don't because if you run up to kick, you get hit by another enemy"I didnt just "describe" the actions in Ninja Gaiden. I synthesized the two described phenomena into a conclusion.Enemies in Ninja Gaiden spam attacks. They cannot be interrupted. Some enemies, even worse will do shit like ride horses where the entire hit box of the horse can damage you. Some enemies will even randomly grab you with no indication. A lot of this action games borrow concepts from fighting games. In street fighter you can "tech a throw". There are a number of factors where it would be the "right" play or "expected" play to throw because youre fighting another human being who actually has a strategy. For example throwing in the middle of the screen when your opponent is full health doesnt really make sense. Another example, if your character doesnt have an overhead or mixup, throwing IS your mixup to open up the opponent etc.I also gave contrasting examples with fighting games about how combos in DMC are shallow and hollow. Nobody is saying theres anything fundamentally wrong with combos (although there is lmao) But DMC doesnt even do anything interesting with it. Theres no further depth of engagement because enemies can barely do anything to you, so theres no advantage to fish for or gain. Just do whatever combo wont get blocked and have fun.You cant just reduce this criticism to "youre reducing these games to THIS".
>>724186203the first one was full action adventure the second one less so and the third one is a straight up action game like NG2
>>724186203I would never call GoW as a series an "Adventure series". You just walk forward, there's no exploration or choice
>>724193372>or choice>Adventurelol what
>>724188614I played Dante's Inferno last year and while it didn't blow me away your post reminds me of how it would often use the environment or a timer or some sort of hazard to make the combat encounters feel a bit different from each other (a part near the end where you fight 2 tough flying enemies on a small icey arena with a big dude constantly blowing you off comes to mind). Action games are way too focused on pure combat encounters and they leave a lot of gameplay possibilities on the table and feel kind of samey. Even within the pure combat gameplay itself it feels like they explore a pretty narrow spectrum and most of the fights are resolved by basic dodge/block and counter tactics and you're expected to "make your own fun" with combos or w/e. It just gets stale after a while.
>>724194902Yeah. Ive been looking for this "difference" not just in action games. But all games, even for a genre like metroidvanias, if they are completely combat focused with little to anything else other than the most basic of "jump over some spikes" platforming. Ill almost dismiss it immediately. There are too many of the same types of games. Its not even about a game being "unique" its like videogames fundamentally ignore aspects of the games that have already always been available to them. Its unbelievable how rare puzzles and platforming is, in what is essentially the "adventure platformer" genre in metroidvania. Everybody just copies some other games combat, because combat is seemingly the simplest, easiest and most common thing to present in videogames.As for action games. The "difference" i look for isnt enemy design/variety, or even combos or blah blah blah.I look for "encounter design". How does the combination of enemies or the position of enemies in the enviroment and level contribute to the decisions and actions you take in a scenario.Its why even though to action fanatic retards, Dark Souls is a "simple" game. Even "simpler" apparently than something like Elden Ring or DS3 (i disagree because complexity to me isnt mechanics). Ds1's encounter design is so consistently thoughtful and engaging, that youre engaging with the game, not just on the level of "how do i beat this enemy" but rather "how do i approach this enemy considering X factors" I personally think thats more interesting, as it produces a situation where you almost want to "solve" combat. Because you have far more factors to consider that legitimately add to what you have to do.
>>724186203It has adventure game elements, yes
>>724195343but how significant are they is the question
>>724190676>I didnt just "describe" the actions in Ninja Gaiden. I synthesized the two described phenomena into a conclusionyou described a strategy that is by your own admission ineffective, and then complained that it's ineffective and boring>Hold block (and sometimes roll) this is already two decisions which is more than s&p or re4 usually have on defense. ninja gaiden grabs are often unreactable too. it's not like you can tape down block in the middle of an enemy horde and wait for an unblockable, except maybe in sigma 2. pure defense is never a good strategy. >until the enemy stops spamming any time you block a normal enemy, you could've gone for counter-attack which usually interrupts or dodges their string. >then spam your highest damage combothis is deliberately boring, an oversimplification and ineffective. "best combo" is enemy dependent. you also have crowd control combos, gap closer combos and high commitment combos among others. again, the fact that you have different strings useful at different times is more depth than literally shooting the gun in re4 or swinging the sword in s&p. if ninja gaiden is too repetitive then you must hate those. >and sometimes dont so that strategy actually doesn't work. you're supposed to be proactive. you have overtuned offensive options like GT, FS, wall jump attacks and UT. just playing passive is a poor approach and will get you killed eventually.>because if you attack more than 3 times sequentially, youll get stunlocked by another enemy.you can block during a string, which interrupts your combo but makes most moves safe. you can also go into an air combo or invincible option like a throw to defend yourself while dealing damage.i said you would prefer rhythm games because i don't think you like having complex options. i think you want to do the objectively correct thing in every situation without having to experiment or guess what that might be. that's ddr.
>>724197050yeah. you dont know how to make an argument. didn't engage with anything i said.
>>724197695not that anon but you sound like a fag and your shit's all retarded
>>724197695i responded to every phrase in your synthesised conclusion in detail.
>>724186203GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOODS
>>724200213Yeah thats why your dumb. You think responding specifically to things is a proof against something. In that case Flat Earthers are PHD physicists.
>>724200368they taught you in middle school that the evidence supports the conclusion, and disproving the evidence is a form of arguing against the conclusion. they also taught you what synthesis is, but you forgot that too.
>>724186203Less than Zelda or Sands of Time, but more than Devil May Cry or Ninja Gaiden Black. Those elements got downplayed over time though. God of War 3 and Ghost of Sparta are more combat-centric than the first God of War.
>>724200678None of this is relevant to anything. Whatever Logic is taught in school has nothing to do with truths and proofs. Its not even a matter of truth in this case. Your response simply doesn't even possess the capacity yet to be true.
>>724200720Yeah. This is what I thought. Im looking for 3D adventure games more along the lines of Zelda and Sands of time, but I cant find any, and have already said why Darksiders doesnt count, and thats even ignoring the multitude of flaws the game has besides its shallow "adventure elements".
>>724200907Soul Reaver.
>>724201072Ah fuck. Already played. Man there really do not seem to be a lot of these type of games, let alone good ones.
