What's the fastest you've refunded a game?>Friend told me that this was like MMO dungeon running>For some reason figure that they meant classic MMO dungeon running>It's actually modern "aggro everyone in the room and AOE, mana is barely even a mechanic, the boss fight is the only thing that matters" slopI don't know why I didn't figure this right of the bat, but I'm glad I caught on to it within the refund window.
>>724218014It wasn't exactly a refund, but I installed Retail WoW back during the launch of Classic WoW, just out of curiosity, got a bunch of flashy pop up screens when I logged into my old level 16 warlock, was informed that talents weren't a thing anymore and now I apparently just pick one of the old trees like its a class and just get fed abilities, decided to check out Orgrimmar and learned that they had gotten rid of the Zeppelins and now you just use a mage portal, saw that they had turned Orgrimmar into Barad-dur and that no one was was there and the few other players that were around were just hovering on their flying mounts, and promptly quit and uninstalled.
Fellowship would be such a great game if they added raids. Retarded to only make dungeons. Dungeons are only fun to gear up for raid
>>724218698Maybe great for you. It's probably what the "modern MMO community" should be playing since it gets rid of the things they don't openly don't care about.
>>724218014From what I heard this game is basically a M+ simulator without needing to level up and gearup a character.
>>724218876They already said they're adding raids. The game just isn't finished. I might give it a shot when they add a raid if it's actually good
>>724218014what was classic mmo dungeon running like?
>>724219056Fun and social. But also a grind.
>>724219056CC played a huge parts of pulling mobs, it was a lot slower, and more tactical.
>>724219056Slower and more based on group coordination and dealing with enemies on a group basis with plans for crowd control and threat management, not pulling the whole room and AoE.
>>724218014>hear its an mmo dungeon simulator>think that surely means fun dungeons that are gigantic and with random packs all over the place inside an area that feels lived in and not just a series of corridors>it actually meant an M+ simulatoroh
>>724219389Yeah, basically. A bit disappointing when dungeons are literally the only thing they're doing.
>>724218014woke wow clone with hero characters instead of classes
>>724221074>wow cloneIf only. It gets rid of the open world and leveling. Which, to their credit, is a good thing if we're talking about Retail WoW.I did think it was funny that they have mounts in this game. You'd think they'd be completely redundant since its a game entirely about dungeon running, but players constantly spam them when they have to walk more than five feet.
>>724219056honestly infinitely simpler.
>>724218014its a pretty good game.too hard for /v/ most likely.
>>724221454Difficulty isn't really the issue, though I didn't really find it difficult.It's more that it isn't very fun, much like the modern MMO dungeons its copying.
>>724221538you evidently didnt even play it past the tutorial difficulty if your complaints are >aggro everyone in the room and AOE, mana is barely even a mechanic, the boss fight is the only thing that mattersits m+. all of those things matter way more than in le traditional dungeons because you are on a timer and are forced to interact with the dungeon.
>>724221810I refunded it within the refund window. I did quickplay matches to see what the gameplay was like. I checked videos of other people playing the game and it was the same, so I felt that I could go ahead and rule out the typical claim of most modern MMO players that the game suddenly changes at some point.
>>724218014>Make a game about the worst content in nu-wowWho thought this was a good idea?
>>724222139sure man
>>724219056Slower and dumber. Tank would pull aggro on a pack of mobs and then party would spam their 1 on them for like 5 minutes. The whole coordination is either when you ask to neutralize some really dangerous enemy in the group, or when your party is clinically retarded and you need to use CC abilities to survive. Also, sometimes even normal group can fuck up and pull a bigger pack or whatever, then everyone would actually try no to die.
>>724221538>Difficulty isn't really the issue, though I didn't really find it difficult.I'm sure it wasn't super hard at Contender 4 or whatenever the fuck you quit at.
>>724219056Snail-paced, obnoxious and simplistic.
>>724222646I don't really give a shit if it was or was not hard. The gameplay wasn't fun and that wasn't about to change with difficulty.
>>724222641You can tell the later MMO shitters from the fact that they don't even know what threat is and certainly cannot conceive of gameplay centered around it as a mechanic.
>>724223009You can put your projection back into your ass. I've returned to classic wow and realised that I was just dumb back then, 5 players who know what they are doing have 0 problems in dungeons. Unless one if them fuck ups of course.
>>724222641It was dumber but also more punishing. wipe once and then its a long ass corpse walk or enemies respawn or whatever.But then again these modern timed dungeons are plenty punishing too. fucking up once or twice on a higher difficulty usually means you wont time it.I think older types of mmo dungeons wouldnt work in this framework anyways. They worked well when they were embedded in a world surrounding it. When traveling and preparation is involved. They would be utterly unimpressive in a vacuum.Likewise I think that modern MMO dungeon design doesnt fit into an MMO framework. This lobby based approach here feels more sincere and fitting for the mythic+ type of gameplay.>>724223009Threat management is trivial in literally every mmo.Woah the DPS have to stop when they reach the arbitrary number mind boggling hard to wrap around impossible to master.
>>724219056Don't listen to the rose tinted glass wearing faggots. Old dungeon running was all about the tank knowing how to abuse the line of sight so he can pull everything into one pixel sized stack.
>>724223171Classic WoW's dungeons were nerfed in some way. They were harder than the overworld in proper Vanilla. They were easier than the overworld in Classic.That said, the old formula centered around threat, crowd control and resource management was fun. The new formula is not.>>724223221Most games are ultimately about "arbitrary numbers."
>>724223581>Most games are ultimately about "arbitrary numbers."nice halfwit reply, retard.
>>724223630I would go further. "You have to stay under the number" is an inherently more interesting mechanic than "the number go up."
>>724219056funner, vastly more immersive, infinitely more satisfying, and just all around encapsulated everything i miss in modern gaming. it will never be the same again, but ive made my peace. private servers will be around forever for whenever i get the itch
>>724223695it really isnt because it takes away any form of optimization for DPS as they have to play around a threat cap which is where all the interesting gameplay for that role comes from.
>>724223581>Classic WoW's dungeons were nerfed in some wayLOL the cope
>>724224548They were. I know this.I know it because they DIDN'T nerf the overworld. The overworld was the exact same difficulty as it was back in Vanilla. But in Vanilla, dungeons were harder than the overworld, while in Classic, they were much easier.In addition, I distinctly remember in Vanilla that crowd control and threat management became critically at least by Zul'Farrak. In Classic, you didn't have the CC anything in Zul'Farrak and players could go ham with the damage and not have to seriously worry about pulling. It was ingrained in everyone in Vanilla that you waited for the tank to get three sunders down before you started laying in the damage because tanks needed at least three sunders to reliably hold aggro. I never heard anyone say anything about sunders in Classic and it seemed like they could hold pretty decent aggro just with a thunderclap.
>>724218876I absolutely loathe these people. The same people who love retail wow are the same people just standing around in GTA RP for 14 hours a day pretending to be a gas station attendant. They ruin everything, I even tried to play The Isle recently and there they are - all sat around playing a fucking chat sim. How is there so many of them? This never used to be a thing.
>>724218014>zero white males allowed>yet for some reason they feel they have the right to steal astetics and designs that were created by white men for white male characters mmhh
>>724224516If you find playing Dance Dance Revolution with cooldowns fun, more power to you. God knows you have enough MMOs and this new game that all cater to your tastes.I don't.
>>724224943And it was always different every time instead of feeling like a job. I don’t want to do the same thing again and again and again with zero hiccups because literally everything about the entire experience has been compiled into an autistic meta.
>>724224943yeah man its totally you not remembering being dogshit at videogames like everybody else was at the time.> I distinctly remember in Vanilla that crowd control and threat management became critically at least by Zul'Farrak.LOL
>>724224943le three sunders was a raider meme in vanilla and it turned out to be inferior to just letting the tank go hard on aggro while dual wielding.its better for threat to let fury warrior DPS in the raid open up with one sunder each instead.
>>724225441People weren't any fucking better in Classic. You just got away with shit in Classic that you wouldn't have in Vanilla.>>724225508>dual wielding fury warriors>VanillalmaoIt remained a thing in TBC, by the way.
>People weren't any fucking better in Classic.this is the kind of comedy you can only find on >>>/v/
>>724219056The dungeons in wow are a lot better now in 2025.
>>724223894>its immersive and satisfying for enemies to have no mechanicslol
>>724218932Yeah this is correct.Fellowship devs were very explicit in being inspired by WoW's M+ dungeon system.
>>724218014>mythic+ was never fun>only works as content padding between updates for wow>mfw they make an entire game with only that
>>724218698but raids are just bigger dungeons you talk as if it's something completely different or you're talking about more people in a group? because that just creates problems and doesn't work in modern age plus they already have raid-like dungeons
>>724218014>vanilla andy cannot handle actual mechanics that are not "drink for 30 seconds to refill your mana"
>>724218014Star Citizen in 20ish minutes. The latest was VTMB2 after 40ish.
>>724218932you gear up by doing said m+ dungeons.its basically a lobby like PSO or monster hunter and then you queue into WoW m+ dungeons.you unlock shit like talents by timing dungeons.
>>724227642raids are usually boss focused. dungeons are way more trash pack focused.when people ask for raids they usually mean longer and intricate encounters and more players are a part of that because it increases the complexity.they could easily do 8man raid fights desu.
>>724219056Check out a video of a Blackrock Depths run. A full run
>>724228049oh true I've been doing some trash-heavy raids recently and forgot it's supposed to be boss focused problem with that is that bosses are rather static, while trash is dynamic in its nature, because different people take different routes, you can ninja pull, chain different packs etc I don't think it would be smart to insert more people into the group, it would just disturb the current groups people already have
>>724218428There are still zeppelins you have to go to the top part of the ridge or the one tower outside of Orgrimmar.
>>724222641>Tank would pull aggro on a pack of mobs and then party would spam their 1 on them for like 5 minutesThis is exactly what happens in Fellowship except nobody has to worry about threat or CC, to say that it's dumber sounds a lot like shilling.
>>724224516>having to maximize dps within a limited threat window is less interesting than just mashing your buttons in the order youtube told you toYou're stupid. Like, very stupid.
>>724218428Blind and retardedGG
>>724218014The best part or mmos was the leveling, end game has always been shit. Why would people make an mmo thats JUST the end game?
Both retail Wow and Fellowship are made and played by trannies, it's honestly quite repulsive.
>>724219056Just easier overall. Boomers found comfort in that.
>>724219056Tedious and boring
>>724228415sitting on your hands isnt interesting you fucking retard, thats the """""""""optimization""""""" you make to not rip aggro when the tank cant keep up
>>724228415yeah man being told to just do nothing in the middle of the fight to wait for tank threat to catch up is super interactive and complex.threat based gameplay is just braindead and limiting.
>>724218014I can't believe I was gullible enough to think this had sovl
>>724227159wow has never had a dungeon better than BRDwow dungeons now are filled with stupid mini games and people just brainlessly aoe down everything
>>724228857not a single good fight in BRD>and people just brainlessly aoe down everythingretarded shitter has never done a real key lmao
>>724228743Having limitations to play around is what gives the games some semblance of depth, without them you're just mindlessly spamming your rotation which is infinitely more braindead.
>>724218428absolutely nothing in retail wow matters except for the 8 dungeons in the m plus rotation and the raid. The open world isn't relevant after the first 2 weeks of any season, you only do delves for 1 week on the first week of the season.
>>724218014same here, thought it was going to be actual dungeons that you explore and interact with in meaningful ways, and were even the trashmob-fights are somewhat interesting. But it is just tunnels and mindlessly pulling and AOE'ing everything. Classes aren't even fun to play. It takes mmo-slop and makes it worse somehow. At least in Final Fantasy 14 or WoW, at least some of the classes have fun to play rotations, but not even this is provided here.
>>724229054There is no depth to afking you retarded nigger
I played first open beta test and had decent fun second beta test I uninstalled after testing out new classes, because I was frustrated with how shit the UI was, like you can't track your own buffs properly, you have to move the whole buff bar with all the other dogshit such as healer dots and random party buffs etc. also was annoyed by the fact that game runs like shit despite looking like it's from 2010
>>724229276Knowing when to not push buttons requires thought, continuously pushing buttons without a care in the world requires zero thought. You're obviously not very good at thinking or you wouldn't be opposed to the idea.
>>724224943Or, consider the following, players were fucking retards in 2004 and did not adequately understand the game. You have this moronic, rose-tinted glasses view about how everything was so much more complex and better, when 99% of the time the truth is that things only seemed that way because people fucking sucked at the game, and it turns out if you actually have a halfway decent spec and press your buttons everything in vanilla WoW is braindead easy.
>>724224516>approach *number*>stopso challenging and fun>try to max *number* by doing rotation flawlessly while managing mechanics at the same timeyeah, so boring
>>724229478>Knowing when to not push buttons requires thoughtNo it doesnt, it requires you to look at a threat meter>continuously pushing buttons without a care in the world requires zero thought.if you arent playing mindless dogshit like vanilla WoW there are a thousand more optimizations youre doing each gcd
>>724224516"threat management" was just a sympthom of tank not knowing what they were doing back then. They were playing protection because that was the obvious choice for a tank, not realizing how badly designed the prot-tree actually was. Two-handed arms-tanking was actually better during leveling, and in raids with full world buffs, dualwield fury-prot was the way to go. The problem with protection was that it only gave some mitigation options but almost nothing to increase threat generation.
>omg I'm such an MMO expert I would NEVER play Fellowship>classic classic classic classicNobody in here even played vanilla WoW; it's all newfags chirping about how they're god gamers over playing a poor copy of vanilla emulated through a Legion client.
>>724230062to clarify, by "threat management" in this case I mean threat management on dps-side
>>724230203>n-no vanilla wasnt a joke that just wasnt REAL vanillayour game is mindless goyslop boomer
>>724230308>no I'm NOT a newfag I just goy goy goy slop slop BOOMERexactly
>>724230349holy seethe
>>724218428Based>>724228427Cringe
>>724230386holy newfag nigger
>>724219056pulling one pack too many was a death sentence so it was slow, which was more fun
>>724229478>looking at an addon that shows when you are at 90% threat requires thoughtvanilla spergs are truly brain fried
>>724230062there were always ways to lose aggro, especially in AoE scenarios, but the complexity of it (fingers off the keyboard for some time) is vastly overrated by idiots who see old WoW as more than it was.
>>724230545>pulling one pack too many was a death sentenceNo this is the case in retail where the other packs have lethal casts that will gun you downin classic you can kite entire dungeons worth of mobs, so theres no danger in overpulling if you play properly
>>724230038>muh rotationThis is what's so horrible about it, they removed the mechanics that required some coordination within the group like threat, CC and mana management and gave all the complexity to rotations. Now you only ever have to worry about yourself and how optimally you're pressing your buttons instead of team play, it's the opposite of what MMOs should be about.
>>724230590No but doing the proper target order while maintaning CC and interrupting shit does.I liked wow better when rotations and CDs weren't that complexNot him btw
>>724230761lol
>>724230761you still need to coordinate bashes and the tank always checks mana between pulls
>>724230761>threatafking is not depth and does not involve coordination with other players>CC removing entire mobs from the pull isnt depth. Theres 100x more CC coordination now than there ever was before>mana managementabsolutely 0 depth involved in afking between pullsCrazy how half the mechanics shitters defend involve LITERALLY just afking.
>thought it would be a thread about legit concerns regarding followshit>its just a delusional balding vanilla grandpa sperging out for hours telling you that dead mines was the peak of difficulty
>>724230769hit the target the tank is targeting also does not require thoughtin fact you can target any mob and just mash a target-of-target macro a few times and it will automatically put you on the right target
>play once>spend lots of time waiting in queue>can't refund the game now since I have more than 2 hoursepic
>>724231006quick play queue is like 5 seconds why are you lying
>>724231092last time I checked it was a 8000 player queue that disconnected you mid queue due to innactivity
>>724231136oh the log in queue, then you can easily refund, there is no 2 hour limit after that you just need a valid explanation
>>724230886>Tank: "I'm stunned and can't generate threat, someone take aggro or hold dps">"you, you and you keep X, square and triangle CCd">Healer: "hey I'm running out of mana, please give me an innervate"This is the kind of shit that makes the game interesting, not how well you can press buttons in order.
>>724231191tried refunding twice specifying that in the refund attempt, they refused them
>>724231195not pressing buttons does not make the game interestingfighting one mob at a time because everything is perma CC'd does not make the game interestingusing innervate on CD is not interesting
>>724219056>>724218014Wait for Monsters & Memories
>>724231195no what makes the game interesting is doing all that while doing boss mechanics while pressing your buttons in order.
>>724230961Tanks used to change target all the time to build aggro on different targets, stun/disarm, interrupting etcIf you blindly change to his target you're going to fuck up half the time.
>>724233462You dont need to keep building aggro on different targets if people arent hitting themYou dont need to targetswap at all for a stun or interruptHave you ever actually played the game?
>>724218014>It's actually modern "aggro everyone in the room and AOE, mana is barely even a mechanic, the boss fight is the only thing that matters" slopThanks. I almost regretted not buying it.
>classic dungeon running>WoW
>>724234140its nothing like that desu.
>>724234493Dungeons were the best part about vanilla PvE, raids were a literal afterthought. Shame they made the endgame all about raids instead of just making progressively harder dungeons.
