>>724218516
Locking on is a complete trap in the earlier DS games, completely fucks up your movement.

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>>724218516
True
>>724218639
Also true

>>724218516
Explain to me how burning a windmill to drain the poison makes any sense

>>724218516
elden ring was lazy slop that's why

>>724218947
The windmill powers the mechanisms that are used to draw out poison from the depths, when it gets destroyed the flow of poison stops

>>724218516
Careful. You can't just drop kino nukes like this in public areas. Elden shit eaters might get seizures. We wouldn't want that now, do we? That'd be such a shame.

>>724218947
its powering the poison distribution system
think of it as a pump. the windmill gets turned by wind, turns the cogs, when controls the pumps to run the poison wherever

>>724218516
DSII is the only white-coded game in the franchise
DeS (PS3) is also great but it's hapa-coded

>>724218516
The chariot boss in DS2 is one of my favorites.

>>724218516
This is all true, but I still think elden ring is closer in spirit to ds2 compared to the rest of the series.
While it has less interesting environmental shit and little puzzles and details like this, it didn't pull a ds3 and get rid of it with nothing really in return. The boss movesets are genuinely complex and intricate with lots of ways to creatively play around them and punish the boss. The amount of shit you can stand under, low profile, jump over, strafe, or avoid with an offensive weapon art is insane, and you don't have to be a giga autist sweatlord speedrunner to figure it out either, you just gotta have balls and some persistence.
I think it's a lot of fun to learn a boss, exploit status effects, fuck around with my build with different ashes of war, talismans, flask setups, buffs, ect.
I would hope the next game they do bridges the gap between elden ring and ds2. I'd like more of the creativity of 2 with the complexity, variety, and skill ceiling of elden ring.

>>724218639
Controls in earlier DS games are quite shitty overall, I watched a lot of gameplay back in the day and new players that didn't used lock-on also sucked because they were missing their targets a lot and waste their stamina. Although for several boss battles in Demon Souls it's better not to use lock-on.

>>724218516
While I much prefer DS3 to DS2, DS2 does have a lot more of those "lost soul arts", as it were.
Just about the only neat thing DS3 does with its bosses is that most of them have alternate death animations if you kill them with a riposte or by performing some other condition.

>>724219407
>beat chariot
>immediately bonfire ascetic for that cloranthy +2
>proceed to struggle for the next two hours to beat chariot ng+
SOVL

>>724219283
I love when some brown thirdworlder tells people what is white and what is not.

>>724219623
3nigger is mad lol

>>724218516
Not the biggest DS2 guy but I do admit having stuff in the exploration portion of the map carry into the boss fight was neat. I think ER had a few things like the shackles for the twins, blasphemous claw for maliketh, patches being eligible for summon for radahn, raising the platforms to fight lake of rot dragonkin, etc. but I don't think it was ever as major of an advantage as the things you did in DS2

Also my memory might be failing me but I'm pretty sure you can light up the room of the lost sinner

>>724219474
Elden Ring is largely identical to Dark Souls 3, in mechanics and design. There is absolutely no way you played both 2 and 3 and concluded that Elden Ring is closer to the former, ER is a DIRECT EVOLUTION of 3.

>>724219582
The Abyss Watchers were pretty cool. A free-for-all gank. And technically being able to fight Dancer as your second boss was neat. But yeah that's as experimental as DS3 gets

>>724219715
I'm a Sekiroyasuke actually.

>>724219735
>I think ER had a few things like that
Obviously it does, so does DS3. It's pretty clear that those games are going in a direction further away from a level design/gimmick focused approach to the game though, it definitely feels different.

>Also my memory might be failing me but I'm pretty sure you can light up the room of the lost sinner
You can light the room up by lighting the two oil sections outside the fog gate if you got the key from the previous area (at least in sotfs, don't remember where it was in base game), but it doesn't entirely light it up. Not that you really need any gimmicks to fight Lost Sinner.

>>724218516
>>you can't lock onto the Lost Sinner without a torch, forcing you to one-hand
You can if you're not a dumb nigger and lit the fires on either side of her room before entering.

>>724219792
It's all surface level stuff. ds3 bosses are far less complex and rolling is far too powerful, there's cool punishes and shit but there's way less player expression, freedom, and viable ways to engage the boss. In spirit elden ring is closer to 2, encouraging more styles of play, having superior build variety, and encouragement to fight bosses in ways that aren't reaction rolling.

>>724220110
Don't forget power stance

>>724218516

weird way to tell us you can't beat a boss without cheese op

>>724219830
>The Abyss Watchers were pretty cool
Conceptually. The actual fight is incredibly underwhelming and easy. There should have been way more of them active at once at the very least.

>>724219283
with how ugly it is I would say "brown-coded" is more suited

>>724220293
Weird way to tell us you enable and encourage formulaic repetitive slop

the movesets of the bosses in DS1 and 2 are somehow limited because of limited performance of the platform
so you have to add these fancy gimmicks to make the fight less boring
especially in DS2 except the DLCs, most of the bosses move as if they are paralyzed

>>724220293
This is pretty good bait, but only because it's sadly the average opinion of fans.

>While it has less interesting environmental shit

-You can use crystal darts on the watchdogs and imps to make them fight each other.

-Lightning damage is boosted when it rains.

-Golden Order incantations prevent Those Who Live in Death from coming back once felled (like DS1's Divine weapons).

-The Nox use a spell to ride their ants, and if broken, the ants turn on their rider and you can watch them fight to the death.

-The demihumans gain red eyes at night and become more feral/harder to fight.

-Morgott and Mohg can be incapacitated if the player uses the very shackles that kept them imprisoned below the capital.

-Full scale wars can be witnessed between multiple factions in real time, makes the world way more believable.

-The world actually has a diverse fauna, and not every animal is an undead dog trying to eat your face.

-The addition of interesting status effects like sleep.

-The Godskin nobles can wake their buddies up if you make them fall asleep.

>The addition of jump attacks, shield counters, crouch attacks, dual weilding.

-The addition of unique weapons that shake things up like the perfumer bottles/Dryleaf martial arts, etc

-Armor can be altered.

>inb4 reddit spacing

>>724220418
repetitive like beating a boss by moving around him ?

>>724220519
I do think soulsborne series are more action-oriented after Bloodborne.

Does nobody actually know you can light up sinner's arena. Back in base ds2 you had to beat the belfry gargoyles to get the key but in scholar its on a random body i forget where

>>724220562
>-The addition of interesting status effects like sleep.
did anyone ever bother with sleep? most of the time it literally does nothing but a mini-stagger and the opportunity cost of it is so big it's pretty much never worth it
it's a useless gimmick if anything else

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>>724218516
Pulling levers before boss fights doesn't make said boss fights any interesting

>>724220621
It's found right after the Ruin Sentinels in Scholar. Kind of lame really. It felt like a reward for not being a little pussy and smashing some bellfag skulls in the original.

>>724220587
Yes. You do realize making it sound simplistic and shallow only proves my point, right?

>>724220519
>limited performance of the platform
Surely you are not implying that 7th gen consoles prevented them from making a dynamic action game

>>724220562
Anon, the only environmental or level focused thing you posted was lightning damage doing more damage when the target is in water and that's been a thing since at least DS2.

>>724220418
The people that put all the focus on boss fights, and how challenging they are while acting like the rest of the game is inconsequential are insufferable faggots.

>>724220110
DO YOU READ THE SHIT THAT COMES OUT OF YOUR MOUTH
LIKE "PUNISH". THIS IS TWITCH SKILL BABBY LANGUAGE, FOR CHILDREN WHO BELIEVE IN POWERING THROUGH EVERYTHING BY REACTION SPEED RATHER THAN INTELLIGENCE
DARK SOULS 2 ALLOWED YOU TO BE A COMPLETE LARD ASS AND WIN. THIS IS WHAT A GOOD GAME DOES. IT GIVES ROOM FOR BOTH THE TRYHARDS AND THE MORE TACTICAL PLAYERS
ELDEN RING IS A GREAT GAME BUT IT'S 100% GEARED TOWARDS THE TRYHARDS. THERE'S LITTLE TO NO ENVIRONMENTAL ADVENTURE STUFF TO BEATING A BOSS. JUST +STATX -STATY, AND TWITCH SKILL BABBY ARCADE. ABOUT THE ONLY COOL THING I COULD EVER FIND AS A CASUAL PLAYER WAS KILLING THOSE BIG FAT ROUND LATE GAME TRASH MOBS WITH HEALING SPELLS

>>724220746
I'll admit that the levers are the lowest form of gimmick, since it just adds another step. But the Dragonrider is especially cool, since the pits can serve as both a detriment (he knocks you off) or a benefit (you knock him off), so it lets the player weigh their options. Why are you only addressing one gimmick though?

>>724220756
elden ring and ds3 bosses are infinitely more interesting and engaging fights than ds2 which won't get redeemed by cute gimmicks.

>>724220562
None of this is an interesting environmental/lore gimmick except the Omen shackles, and even then that's pretty cheap. You're just describing basic game mechanics, retard

>>724220893
But why can we have both? Why can't we have a boss that A), has a complex moveset, and B) has a unique environmental gimmick that breaks the monotony? Oh wait, we do have that. It's called Nioh.

>>724220562
All of this just to end up with the player rolling through a 20x combo

>>724220562
>reddit spacing

>>724219283
dogshit2 is literally a brown turd

>>724220715
The point of gimmicks isn't that they should be the most viable way to play the game. The point of gimmicks is that they make the game world feel more believable and complex. The mere fact that all enemies have sleep animations is commendable. The same goes for the boosted lightning damage when it rains or the fact that throwing oil urns on enemies makes them more vulnerable to fire.

It's just neat little details.

>>724221019
You can smell this poster through the scren.

>>724218516
yeah, but elden ring has bosses that are actually challenging. i replayed dark souls 2 a couple of years ago, i didnt die to a boss a single fucking time. what's the point of interesting design for bosses that are complete shit? it sounds like someone scrabbling for any praise they can find.

>>724220110
>DS2 PvP doesn't allow invaders or summons to heal with flasks. DS3 and ER do.
>DS2 allows players to be invaded at any time. DS3 and ER don't.
>DS2 doesn't feature level or weapon upgrade based online matchmaking. DS3 and ER do.
>DS2 doesn't use the FP system. DS3 and ER do.
>DS2's combat system includes full left handed movesets, mixed weapon class powerstancing, animation chains between different attack inputs, and different animation speeds for the same inputs depending on whether they're done from neutral or as part of an attack chain. None of this exists in DS3 or ER.
>DS2 restricts buffstacking. DS3 and ER don't.
>DS2 doesn't restrict infusing weapons that already carry an element, ranged weapons, or special weapons that use different upgrade materials. DS3 and ER do.
>DS2 doesn't provide animation invincibility for interacting with doors/levers/fog gates. DS3 and ER do.
>DS2 adds new enemies and items in NG+ and features a method to access NG+ contents without beating the game. DS3 and ER don't.
>DS2 roll iframes are tied to a stat and equip load affects roll distance. DS3 and ER don't feature this.
>DS2 durability is a major mechanic. DS3 gear has practically infinite durability and ER doesn't feature durability at all.
>DS2 torch is a special item that has to be lit from a fire. Torches in DS3 and ER are a weapon type.

I could go on but surely I have made my point.

>>724221053
elden ring artificially inflates game time

>>724220946
You pedantic nigger, OP used examples such as
>>when you get Sif down, she'll limp pathetically towards you
>>the Old Hero is blind
I merely provided the Elden Ring equivalents of what he posted

>>724220854
Caps lock is cruise control for cool

>>724220946
how bad faith this post it. You can smell the Elden ring derangement syndrom

>>724221119
is*

>>724221029
>The mere fact that all enemies have sleep animations is commendable
Yeah too bad they forgot they were making a dlc to a video game

>>724221108
First of all, I AM OP, so I'm pretty fucking sure I know what the topic of the thread is. And the topic of the thread is boss design. You didn't list anything unique to any specific boss except for the Omen brothers. You just listed general game mechanics like lightning damage being boosted in water. Which is cool and all, but it's not what anyone is talking about

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>>724220864
They are all the same trash
All the shit Op described is garbage detatched from the actual fight and a low form of gimmick desperately trying to add depth and variety where the gameplay design failed
Dark Souls 2 boss roster is boring and made of overlapping and samey bosses that don't push the player nor focus on any kind of positional strategy and overall combat tactics, so B team felt the need to add this crap.

But even then those fights OP described are dudes doing slow basic swings. It's not actually unique like hitting Greatwood weakspots, using a crossbow to drop the King of Storms, charging the Stormruler against a giant, giant butterflies firing lasers or a giant skeleton Lord dropping deadly gas and summoning minions.

If you have to go through a checklist of shit you do outside of boss arena to claim a boss is unique, then maybe said boss is not actually unique.

Look at Loyce King or whatever he is called. He is only memorable for a shitty gank fight but nothing about him is unique. It's a dude with a sword and NPC summons. Now compare it with Nameless King fought in a Storm as it uses wind attacks from range and lightning strikes, and you see it has an actual identity.

Dark Souls 2 has the least inventive and soulful bosses and is the least engaging and interesting Souls game.

>>724220946
>I define what qualifies as an interesting environmental/lore gimmick!!!!
Sit down, Timmy.

>>724221053
I'm among the ds2 haters of the thread but ds2 bosses can be very challenging if you don't cheese them.

>>724218516
I said this before and il say it again: 3 got better polish and overall sloppier then anything they've put out even er and its game modes
2 is most flawed and incomplete and somewhat soulful
also 3 is very spiteful to its core founding fanbase

>>724221108
That's not what you did. You quoted this from the OP,
>While it has less interesting environmental shit
And then replied to that quote while specifically leaving the second part about the lore details out. At the very least you're at fault for quoting the wrong part.

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>>724221224
No they can't
Dark Souls 2 bosses are a downgrade from Artorias of the Abyss
Nothing about them is unique or mechanically throws off and surprises any player except the size of their hitboxes

>>724221119
>>724221219
Learn reading comprehension, mongoloids

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>>724221213
Ds2 has one of the coolest bosses in the series

>>724221012
I agree

>>724221314
Abyss Watcher is a downgrade from Artorias, a fucking washed up dorkwraith nodiffs the entire squad

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>>724221384
Which western MMO raid boss is this?

>>724221414
No it isn't. Abyss Watcher is actually an impressive mechanical upgrade from Lady Maria, with fire after-effects that are actually balanced and with proper hitboxes.
Loopine showed the two and explained how much Dark Souls 3 improved over Bloodborne

>>724221426
What? Not gonna post a clip for darklurker?

>>724220715
No but its very cool addition to the game

>>724221426
>er tard yaps his mouth about westie mmo bosses
the jokes write themselves

>>724221213
The problem is that you reduce a boss down to nothing but a moveset. A boss is more than just a moveset. Even those dorks who jerk themselves off over "muh spectacle" have more of a soul than you, because they at least recognize that a boss is worth more than the sum of its parts. Feeling bad over having to finish off Sif when she's limping and struggling to raise her sword is an infinitely more memorable and stimulating experience than fighting Anime Sword Nigger #517, even though it makes the fight easier. Mastering the Fume Knight's second phase by practicing with the Velstadt helmet was an infinitely more rewarding experience than bashing my head against a wall until I mastered Mr. Delayed Attack Ninja. You clearly hate video-games and play them only for clout

>>724221209
>And the topic of the thread is boss design.
Oh really? Because I could have sworn the word the OP post mentioned nothing about boss design. In fact, you clearly stated that it was about "environmental or lore-based gimmicks".

Also,
>The demihumans embracing their beasthood at nigh and becoming more feral
>The ants rebelling against the Nox once the control spell is broken
>The multiple in real time civil wars taking place in the game world
>Watchdogs and imps being controlled by darts that aren't normally supposed to control enemies (but that were crafted by a golem maker)
If you don't consider these lore-based environmental gimmicks then you're beyond help. Then again, I am taking to a DS2 fag.

>>724218516
The thing about Velstadt's helmet is pretty cool. I remember all the fags crying about how awful his second phase is so I was expecting it to happen during all of my attempts, only to find out that I've been running phase 2 only all this time, lel

>>724221330
rain and night aren't environment ?

>>724221064
>>DS2 doesn't feature level or weapon upgrade based online matchmaking
No, it has Soul Memory instead which was an absolutely fucking retarded system that was universally despised and destroyed co-op to "solve" PvP problems (it didn't do that either).

>>724221384
Looks generic and edgelordy. Like something you'd find in an MMO.

>>724221475
What mechanics, upgrades, effects and hitboxes? He gets just staggered and dies. Are you delulu?

>>724221537
>nothing about boss design
Every single sentence in his post mentioned a boss, or the word "boss". It's still up there, you can go read it again if you want.

>>724221574
>looks
Not gonna show us a clip where
>Nothing about them is unique or mechanically throws off and surprises any player except the size of their hitboxes
you disingenuous faggot?

>>724221537
If you notice, literally every single fucking example I gave was a BOSS.
>Elden Ring would never have neat environmental or lore-based gimmicks like this. All the bosses have the exact same strategy
I am explicitly talking about bosses. No one was confused but you. But it's okay buddy, you realize your silly mistake and we can all move on now :)

>>724221475
What a faggot you are. You can't even form your own opinion. You need someone to 'show' you their opinion and explain it to you, so you can mindlessly regurgitate it.

>heard bosses in elden ring are great
>margit was pretty cool
>but then there's another margit, and another margit, and another, and--
repetitive. slopified. boring.

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>what if
>thing
>but on fire
how the fuck did they get away with bland shit?

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>>724221520
You are nothing but a dickwad that is desperately trying to suck off Shart Souls 2 by trying to bring down better games.
Nobody is saying that bosses are just movesets, but them being a unique challenge is extremely important and something at which Dark Spuls 2 fails.
The fact that the only example of a boss you felt compelling lore behind was from Dark Souls because everything about Dark Souls 2 is nonsensical gibberish or a bland copy of the first game is hilarious.
Yes, bosses are both interesting movesets with unique combat stats and unique arenas AND the story and lore around them, and Dark Souls 2 fails at both.

>>724221537
Also to add to the other anons, DS2 and earlier games focus more on the boss being the conclusion to a level rather than being the point or a payoff anyway. The level design and gimmicks often tie directly into the boss design as well as a result, OP's examples demonstrate this pretty well. This is a different concept than the boss being thematically appropriate to a level, enemy AI fighting each other for lore reasons or them being affected by some items for lore reasons.

>>724218516
>Maliketh can be parried with a unique tool you find through exploring
>Mogh and Morgott can be bound by using their shackles
>Miranda flowers can be set on fire, and thus stunned
>land squirts explode when poisoned
>some black knife assassins are completely invisible, unless you use the sentry torch, which reveals their form
>animals and beasts don't attack you if you use the beast repellant torch
>you can stun fallen star beasts out of their charge if you time your charged r2 well
>royal revenants get stunned and damaged by healing
>furnace golems can be heavily damaged by throwing furnace pots into them
>Latenna can ride enemy wolves if summoned nearby

DS2 had some cool interactions, but pretending that ER somehow doesn't is just disingenuous

>>724221758
Still waiting on that darklurker clip

>>724221758
>makes fun of Dark Souls 2 for relying on DS1 lore
>while calling Dark Souls 3 (the game where literally every boss is a memberberries reboot of a DS1 boss) "kino"
Sorry, I don't waste my breath on retards. Goodbye

>>724221414
Abyss Watcher difficulty is night and day depending on if you did Cathedral first and can kill one before more show up.

>>724221784
Damn that's like.... 1 unique boss you mentioned

>>724221784
the problem with er is that all those things you listed dont stand out at all, even a little bit, well not unless you are lorefaggot
game's just too flashy

>>724221784
Only 2 (technically 3) of those examples actually count

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>>724221784
All games have those kind of interactions, Dark Souls 1, 3 and ER have actual unique boss items and various mechanically unique interactions
Dark Souls 2 actually fails at those.

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This series peaked with demon souls. The sequels are just about killing bosses.

>>724221849
>>makes fun of Dark Souls 2 for relying on DS1 lore
Yes, the game that reincarnated the Great Ones and sends you to fight them because there's some chest high rubble has shit lore
The actual sequel to Dark Souls does not

>>724221651
I bet that gotcha made your dick hard. Since we're taking about bosses, I'll add:
>Demihumans yielding and raising their weapons above their heads if you defeat their Queen.
>The revenants can be harmed by healing spells (the only enemies in the game to have that feature)
>Chariots can be destroyed by dropping giant explosive jars neatly affixed on the roof (inb4 Chariots don't have a boss health bar)

What I have mentioned so far exceeds whatever DS3 has to offer in terms of environmental details, be they related to bosses or not. So here's my question: why does DS3 get away with it when ER gets all the shit?

>>724222057
It doesn't, they're both shit

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Darkwraiths would make a better gankfight boss

>>724221941
>I decide what counts!

>>724222105
I think they should go back to good invader NPCs again and have a bunch of gimmicky dark wraith invaders who invade throughout the game with purposefully annoying and unfair tactics instead.

>>724218516
Wow, already wrong on the first point. Good job, faggot. Not even reading the rest.

>>724221889
And the details in DS2 stand out?

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>>724221967
Cmon buddy, just one clip. Back up your claim.

>>724222172
yeah since there is nothing else besides

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>>724218516
>you should raise the platforms in the Dragonrider's room first so he can't hit you off

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>>724221849
>(the game where literally every boss is a memberberries reboot of a DS1 boss)
The irony of saying this to a game that introduced hitstun and bosses with variable or even zero poise while shilling for a game that mechanically straight up lifted bosses is just too much
Dark Souls 2 was literally the most conservative game where enemy design took a major step back from Artorias of the Abyss.
You can tell the combat designers were busy with Bloodborne

>>724222172
Ds2 had best covenants, hands down. Nothing came close to darkdelvers or covenant of champions.

>>724222057
>Demihumans, revenants
Field and dungeon bosses don't fucking count. They're just enemies with health bars. It's actually hilarious watching you ER fanboys desperately rack your brains trying to scrounge together even the tiniest bit of cool details in ER bosses, only to fail miserably and slowly realize that your game's boss design is the worst in the series
>Chariots
Bruh
>DS3
I assume you meant DS2. But something none of you faggots understand is that I'm not even talking about DS2 explicitly. I'm talking about DeS, DS1, and DS2 collectively. The soulful gimmick boss era, before Fromsoft sold out with Bloodborne and just reskinned Artorias ninjas and rampaging monsters ad nauseam

>>724220562
Most of what you posted doesn't even remotely qualify as ''interesting environmental shit''

>Lightning damage is boosted when it rains.
This was done in DaS2 a decade earlier
>-Golden Order incantations prevent Those Who Live in Death from coming back once felled (like DS1's Divine weapons).
This is hardly interesting
>-The demihumans gain red eyes at night and become more feral/harder to fight.
Amounts to a small visual change
>-Full scale wars can be witnessed between multiple factions in real time, makes the world way more believable.
NPC's fighting each other isn't even remotely impressive for an open world game released in 2022, especially with how primitive their AI is
>-The world actually has a diverse fauna, and not every animal is an undead dog trying to eat your face.
Same deal here, the ''fauna'' is a joke, you have sheep and birds with static spawns that just run away when you get near
>-The addition of interesting status effects like sleep.
That's not an interesting detail
>The addition of jump attacks, shield counters, crouch attacks, dual weilding.
>-The addition of unique weapons that shake things up like the perfumer bottles/Dryleaf martial arts, etc
>-Armor can be altered.
Neither is any of this

>>724222172
It's a shit fangame with Dark Souls 1 assets so we take what we can

>muh bosses
is this an actual bot? and if not then who is gonna tell him?

>>724222172
When the game is such crap, yes

>>724222285
>I decide what's interesting
>I decide what qualifies
Very well. And I decide that all the points OP made aren't interesting and that none of them qualify. What are you gonna do about it now?

>>724222235
Are we gonna act like literally every game doesn't both 1, straight-up reuse assets (Erdtree avatars = Asylum demons), and 2, intentionally make thematic references to previous bosses? I'm not gonna defend Belfry Gargoyles, the Royal Rat authority, and the other rat boss, and the scorpion boss was pretty lazy too, but Freja is literally just a big spider and that's where her similarities with the Armor Spider ends, you're really stretching there. And DS3 reused Ornstein too

>>724220715
Don't speedrunners use sleep a lot?

>>724222514
yeah they put me to fucking sleep

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>>724222285
>>Lightning damage is boosted when it rains.
>This was done in DaS2 a decade earlier
Dark Souls 2 has no weather effects and time of day retard
Making bosses a bit weaker to lightning is not the same as water effectively spreading lighting and fire staggering beasts and insects and wiping off leeches

>>724222235
This imagine is pure delusion lol

The gargoyles literally have a different design and a different mechanic to their fight (the reused music was lame tho), might as well mention how the Gargoyles in DaS1 copied the Maneaters

The rats are literally just the most generic rats imagineable

The giant rat in the sewers looks and functions nothing like the RRA boss

The Armored Spider looks and functions nothing like Freja

Najka has a completely different design and moveset than Quelaag, DaS1 didn't invent half-monster ladies

The Leechmonger isn't anything like the Rotten

Ornstein is the worst actual reuse from DaS1, and he's the exception not the rule

>>724222235
it's not irony though. they're both like that because fromsoft only has three games, armored core, demon's soul and sekiro. the entire souls series+elden ring is just a remaster of a remaster of a remaster of king's field.

>>724222506
>but Freja is literally just a big spider and that's where her similarities with the Armor Spider ends
It's a huge spider that fires beams from its mouth that is also the only weakpoint
>And DS3 reused Ornstein too
No it didn't

>>724222482
>OP is wrong
So if the basic parameters of the entire discussion are fundamentally flawed, why are you even participating in the first place? Play by the rules or stop wasting your time

>>724222627
It's impressive how much retardation you managed to squeeze into such a small post. How did you do that?

>>724222578
>Dark Souls 2 has no weather effects
It literally has sections where it rains and increases lightning damage when you're in it, retard. It also literally has lightning damage spread in water and deal more damage in the same way, even DS1 had these mechanics. ER only added a day/night cycle with weather effects.

>>724222285
>This was done in DaS2 a decade earlier
Whilst true, lightning was just OP in DS2 anyway since almost no enemies have a resistance to it, unlike every other infusion. A lot of DS2's systems were neat on paper, but rendered ultimately pointless by the poor balancing of the game. Scholar didn't really fix anything, since their idea of adding "difficulty" was to just spam more enemies everywhere.

>>724222578
>Dark Souls 2 has no weather effects and time of day retard
That's not really important. Being wet reduces lightning resistance in DS2, so areas like Drangleic Castle where it's always raining always have that effect.

>>724218516
don't forget every game except ds3 and elden ring has cuttable parts on certain bosses

>>724222627
>that is also the only weakpoint
Huh?
Freja couldn't realistically be damaged outside of that. Not true with armored spider.

>>724222721
>It literally has sections where it rains
Yeah and when does it stop raining? Oh right it doesn't because the point is that weather changing affects elemental resistances, retard

>>724222645
I'm merely giving you a taste of your own medicine.

I you think the details I provided don't qualify because they don't adhere to (You)r subjective tastes, then I'll do the same.

>>724222779
You can cut the tentacles of the Giant Land Octopi in ER. Have you niggers even played the game?

>>724222824
Yes, we know you're wrong. You don't have to confirm it. Don't try to act like you didn't also claim DS2 only gives enemies low lightning resistance to pretend that water affects enemies and also that lightning doesn't spread in water.

>>724222935
>bosses

>>724222824
>Oh right it doesn't
Thats better though, makes for meaningful difference in build synergy between locations

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>>724218516
>All the bosses have the exact same strategy: memorize their moveset
good. there's a reason to that
every time they tried to make a gimmick boss they failed, every gimmick/puzzle boss in fromsoftware games is complete not even mediocre utter shit that would leave you unsatisfied and confused about what just happened

>>724222951
the octopus is a boss in dungeon number #162

>>724222779
im still mad they didnt include it in 3

>>724221967
>fools idol rehash

>>724222876
The premise of the thread is that I'm simply lamenting the loss of boss gimmicks in post-DS2 Fromsoft games. It's a fact that DeS, DS1, and DS2 have boss gimmicks, while Bloodborne, DS3, and ER (and maybe Sekiro idk I haven't played it) don't. If there's a disagreement between us, it's because I like boss gimmicks while you don't, and you think the omission is an improvement. But don't sit here and lie and say that there's still boss gimmicks. There's nothing of the sort

>>724222953
>ACTUALLY LESS DETAILS ARE BETTER
lmao

>>724221213
>bosses that don't push the player nor focus on any kind of positional strategy and overall combat tactics, so B team felt the need to add this crap.
you're describing DS1 and DeS too, idiot. Stop trying to reframe DS2 design in a ER(faggot) influenced lens. DS2 was never focused on overly challenging bossfights, it wasn't its design goal

>>724222951
>erm, akchually
pedantic as ever

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>doood lol
>ds3 and er are le good lmao
NGAAAAAAAAAAH

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>>724222876

>>724219283
>>724219623
>>724219715
>>724221019
All of you are white

>>724223053
less is indeed more

>>724223076
nobody on this site post 2020 is white

>>724222235
>the most conservative game where enemy design took a major step back from Artorias of the Abyss
>implying AotA was a step forward and not the first sign of design rot taking over miyazaki's brain

>>724223053
>LESS DETAILS
>than a game that came out 8 years later
damn nigga you're cookin

>>724223120
post hand

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>>724222954
>Every boss is either Bed of Chaos or Consort Radahn, how DARE you attempt nuance!!!

>>724223067
>misses the discussion of the entire thread
>haha nerds
We've been talking about bosses for 140 posts anon. Get with the program

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>>724221967
>throwing knives pop clones
Well now I feel silly.

>>724223118
What does this mean?

>>724223225
Have you ever seen a donut

>>724222482
Yeah, things that were already done in previous games a decade earlier like certain enemies not reviving if you're using a specific thing, aren't really worth mentioning
And again, if you've ever played any open world released in the last 20 years, enemies fighting eachother and static fauna with basically nonexistent AI aren't even remotely interesting

>>724222578
>Dark Souls 2 has no weather effects and time of day retard
So? It's the same detail of making lightning stronger under certain parameters, it was done in DaS2 and isn't impressive to see it in ER. Do you think ER having rain is impressive? Lol

I could also bring up details from DaS2 that are still missing in ER, like how when walking in a pool of poison your character will get coated in poison up to whatever depth you sank, and if you roll you will be completely covered. Or how your character has different stances for being out of breath or low on health, etc.

>>724223025
>But don't sit here and lie and say that there's still boss gimmicks. There's nothing of the sort


>Demihumans yield and raise their weapons above their heads if you defeat their Queen (a boss)
>The revenants can be harmed by healing incantations
>Maliketh can be parried with a unique tool you find through exploring
>Mogh and Morgott can be bound by using their shackles
>some black knife assassins are completely invisible, unless you use the sentry torch, which reveals their form (some of them are bosses)
>furnace golems can be heavily damaged by throwing furnace pots into them (the furnace Golems are field bosses)

Then what do you call these, nigger?
>inb4 they don't qualify because I don't like them.

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>>724223196
there cannot be any meaningful nuance in a game designed to be played on consoles by definition
>y-yeah you have to stay in this one point for like 3 seconds, use this random item or pull this lever! here's your mechanic bro

>>724223325
>like how when walking in a pool of poison your character will get coated in poison up to whatever depth you sank
i remember ER adding this back in, although visually it's not as obvious

>>724223341
Enemies are not bosses. Bosses are bosses

>>724223024
Fools idol but good
Meanwhile Dark Souls 2 boss roster is
>Giant but bad
>Gwyn but bad
Gwyn but bad
>Gwyn but bad
>Gwyn but bad
Gwyn but bad
>Gwyn but bad
>Gwyn but bad
>Covetus Demon
>Gwyn but bad
Gwyn but bad
>Gwyn but bad
>Gwyn but bad
>Queelag but wastes your time
>Gwyn but bad
>Gwyn but bad
>Sif but bad and with random dogs (and is called rat???)
>Gwyn but bad
>Gwyn but bad
>The actual Gwyn but bad

>>724223356
In ER, the poison buildup continues as long you clothes as covered in poisonous muck, but it stops if you use soap to cleanse yourself.
Yet another neat detail.

>>724223341
>Then what do you call these, nigger?
Reused assets (in the same game), excepting maliketh of course

>>724223459
>erm, akchually

>>724223461
>Crystal Sage
>Good
Meanwhile Fool's Idol is a much more beloved and iconic boss than that garbage. I honestly had no idea you people (DS3 fanboys who are so deluded they dare call Crystal Sage good) even existed

>>724223461
>still no darklurker clip
I accept your concession

>>724223525
>I wish ER had boss gimmicks.
>It has enemy gimmicks!
>Okay but I wish it had boss-
>'ERM AKSHUALLY' MUCH??? OWNED

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>>724223219
Dark Souls 3 bosses allow a lot of actually cool unique strategy without random ass levers somehow magically connected to the boss arena 300 meters away

>>724223580
Ok but show me a clip of you fighting darklurker

>>724223341
>Maliketh can be parried with a unique tool you find through exploring
>Mogh and Morgott can be bound by using their shackles
These are neat, but they're not gimmicks of the fight itself. The Furnace Golem one is fair enough I guess, but the rest are just regular enemies.
I don't even know why you're struggling here, ER does have some gimmick/puzzle bosses even if there's not many. Like the snake guy or renalla.

>>724223580
No it's just me being retarded and not seeing something obvious.

>>724223579
Maliketh: is a boss
Royal Revenant: is a boss
Invisible Black Knife Assassin: is a boss
The Demi-human Queen: is a boss
Mohg and Morgott: are bosses

All bosses with boss health bars.
But you already knew that you disingenuous faggot.

>>724223580
webm unrelated?

>>724223713
Snake guy was a third rehash of stormruler. Renalla was pretty neat not gonna lie.

>>724223759
Revenants, Black Knife Assassins, and Demihumans are not bosses. They're enemies. Arbitrarily slapping a health bar on an enemy doesn't make it a boss. Is Soldier of Godrick a boss? I already admitted that Maliketh, Mohg, and Morgott are the closest things to the thing I'm talking about. But even that's pretty one-note and shallow. And 3 examples in a game with "muh 238 bosses!!" (it's closer to 30 or so actual bosses, maybe 40 counting the DLC) is pathetic

>>724223713
>I don't even know why you're struggling here, ER does have some gimmick/puzzle bosses even if there's not many. Like the snake guy or renalla.
OP asked for "neat environmental or lore-based gimmicks", and these examples might be dismissed a being too obvious. It's the same reason no one mentioned Deacons or Wolnir in defense of DS3 either.

>>724223824
Rennala herself is a rehash of Deacons and Rom, but yeah, she's a gimmick boss done right

>>724223759
See:
>>724223494
>inb4 pursuer in ds2, cuz that's like one dude used as a boss maybe 3x

>>724223890
I appreciate the attempt with Deacons and Wolnir, but they just fucking suck. Literally no one likes them. And even then, they aren't "gimmicks" in the way the thread is about, they're just bosses with atypical designs. We're talking about environmental gimmicks that the player can optionally apply through gameplay, as a reward for exploration and thinking outside the box

>>724223880
>But even that's pretty one-note and shallow.
And are you honestly implying DS2's boss gimmicks are any less shallow?

And if we decide to keep it at remembrance bosses then I'll add Rykard and Rennala.
>But those aren't interesting
And are DS2's gimmick bosses interesting?

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>>724224020
Deacons was enjoyable for me, it had a small twist in the ds2 ones

>>724223890
>OP asked for "neat environmental or lore-based gimmicks",
In the context of the boss fights, yeah, as in using those gimmicks to create a unique encounter. Maybe OP sucked at explaining it, but that's what he was talking about as I understood it. Mohg shackles are a neat lore tidbit, but they don't impact the dynamic of the fight or change the tone of the encounter once you see it.
Would you really put Mohg Shackles in the same category as the Maiden fight in DeS? Whether we're talking about the tonal shift after the "reveal" or the different ways you can approach the boss encounter.

>>724223580
What was the "cool unique strategy" here?

>>724224098
Yes. Darklurker, chariot, dlc bosses, to name a few

>>724224143
>roll

>>724224102
There's this DS3 mod that actually makes Deacons cool. In the first phase, you need to kill as many Deacons as possible, because in their second phase, they summon Aldrich, and Aldrich's health depends on how quickly you killed the Deacons. That's exactly the sort of cool shit modern Fromsoft games are missing

>>724224195
Wait a minute, I've been rolling since DeS!

>you should raise the platforms in the Dragonrider's room first so he can't hit you off

Wrong, you should not raise them and instead bait his first lunge so he falls to his own death. Combine with Ascetics for effortless souls at any point in the game.

>>724224160
Then I simply disagree.

>>724224210
Eh I'm easy. Ds2 had the rat bosses that weren't much better, but I don't believe every boss fight has to blow my pants off. Makes you appreciate the ones that do.
Though locale is important. Rats fit the theme of their location, deacons was a little underwhelming for being the big bad of the mondo cathedral.

>>724224098
The shackles are as simple as "find item, use item to get some easy hits in". I appreciate it, it's neat, it's a lore-based gimmick that rewards exploration, but it's not as mechanically dynamic and supportive of player agency as, say, having to either change your playstyle by two-handing for Lost Sinner, or go out of your way to beat an optional boss. And yeah, I know SotFS trivializes the fight, but we're talking base game.
>Rykard
That's a bad gimmick. That's why I didn't mention Storm King.

>>724224378
Darklurker alone beats any ER boss. Optional covenant boss with some cool spoopy environmental storytelling, and is still one of the most unique in the series. Pretty difficult too.

>>724224517
*one-handing

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>>724224535
It beats any boss in being boring DOGshit in a shit game and with awfuk art direction
>Muh donut steel OC super dark storytelling maybe he is the Dark ending first game protagonist *wink wink*
Insufferable

>>724224517
You have to one-hand your weapon to fight the invisible black knife assassin boss since you'll have to hold the Sentry Torch in your left hand to be able to see the enemy in the first place.

I you claim that the black knife assassin isn't a boss, then neither should the pursuer be considered a boss.

Mind you, I don't claim that Elden Ring implemented gimmicks in some mind blowing way. I'm merely arguing that ER doesn't have any less gimmicks and environmental details than its predecessors.

The Lost Sinner and the invisible Black Knife fights are nothing to write home about.

>>724219283
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/xngBF-sWsLg

Elden Ring has plenty of boss gimmicks you can use like the omen shackles or

>>724224898
1, the Black Knife Assassin is an enemy that was turned into a boss, not a boss that was turned into an enemy like, say, Capra Demon or Taurus Demon. 2, the Pursuer being a recurring boss (sometimes with a proper health bar, sometimes without) like Nemesis from Resident Evil is one of the coolest gimmicks in the franchise. 3, the Lost Sinner and the Pursuer are required fights, while almost no players ever encountered your shitty Black Knife boss. 4, the dungeons of Elden Ring are an abomination. They're the worst part of the game and should be ignored, and ARE ignored by 90% of players. I don't care about your dungeon bosses, and neither does anyone who can actually appreciate art.

You're creating a disingenuous false equivalency. Come up with an argument that holds water

>>724219156
>>724219256
okay but does this have any repercusions for the area below now that the poison is no longer being drained and is instead left to back up and overflow

>>724225224
Pursuer isn't a required fight
Stopped reading there

>>724225079
Yeah, okay, but did you know that you can use an item on Margit and he'll stop for a second?

>>724225429
>argument is literally so strong it's a memetic hazard that you must cowardly shield your eyes from
I accept your concession

>>724224884
Dark Souls 2 does this shit all the time
The description for old dragonrider purposefully implies that maybe he is Ornstein but also says "maybe not" because they clearly had no clue what Drangleic would even be at that point of development

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>>724224884
Where did everything go so wrong?

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>>724224884
Everything about Dark Souls 2 is just visually uninteresting to me.
Every time I watch an enemy or castle it's like I'm looking at "StormWatch" or something, the new MMO from ex-Blizzard developers
Darklurker really shows how bland the game can look

>>724225480
That's not his name or what it says. It says he's reminiscent of a legendary knight, in a game where the entire premise is souls being used to create new/artificial beings that are also eventually influenced by the very same soul.

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>>724225480
>at that point of development
It isn't implied anywhere that it's actually Ornstein. The actual description of his soul is:
>Soul of the Old Dragonslayer. The Old Dragonslayer is reminiscent of a certain knight that appears in old legends.
He's an Ornstein LARPer, likely from a long line of Ornstein LARPers who guarded the cathedral. Heide as an area has elements of Anor Londo's aesthetic and even statues that are Gwyn with a bird's head, implying there were worshippers there at some point who revered Gwyn and his knights, even if some of the details were lost. Which fits in with DS2's general theme of fading memory and half-forgotten legends.

>>724226473
And where does it say that those are Gwyn-statues?

what are some funny builds in DS3?
i always wanted to play with miracles but it feels like you only get good ones at the end of the game which forces you going into NG+ which i don't wanna do

>>724228484
Nonsense, you get good miracles 20 minutes in by killing dancer and in 40 minutes in Cathedral
>>724226646
A youtuber who over-analyzed Dark Souls 2 to make it fit the canon told him so

Would you believe me if I told you that Jori is my favorite boss from the ER DLC? Reminds me of old souls bosses where shit just happens and you gotta deal with it.

>>724219792
oh great now im not really looking forward to elden ring now cause i really didnt like dark souls 3

>>724228739
im not autistic and good enough to go and kill dancer just like that

>>724229410
If I could do it at SL1 surely you can also pull off that feat

One thing I wish DS3 kept from DS2 was how unique the summons were. I liked how all of the NPC summons had unique gimmicks and even personalities. ER kind of fixes this with Spirit Ashes playing differently, but the DS3 summons were pretty much just damage sponges.

>>724218947
The real question you should be asking is how the fuck anyone would think to bring the torch to the METAL shaft of the windmill to burn it

>>724229596
It's covered in oil

>>724225380
The fact that anyone puts this much thought into it actually says more about DS2 than anyone trying to detract from it by parroting all the common talking points from various YouTubers.
Nothing in the game actually upsets you, you're just looking for reasons to be mad at and hate it for some reason. Move on. It's time to let go. Matthew won't suck your dick.

>>724221209
nah i'm with this guy, your post starts with one topic and then you jump to another? pick a topic to discuss, accept that topics may shift over time, or stop treating every bit of discourse like a game you have to win and quit moving the goal posts

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>>724218516
stop questioning
you will roll in the slop

I can't wait for Miyazaki to retire. FromSoftware needs to go back to its roots.

>>724229869
It's pretty telling that of the 6 DS1 bosses shown, 5/6 are recycled normal enemies. Meanwhile the bottom image chooses to ignore ER's minor bosses because a lot of them are fought in the open world where the terrain matters.

>>724225380
Of course not. A windmill that far at the bottom would also not even really work in the first place and hilariously, the wind is blowing in the wrong direction judging by your capes and the rags around the windmill.

>>724230227
theres zero level design in the open world, retard

>>724222057
there's no answer, just ds2fag seethe

>>724229410
Dark Hand let's you punch her to death

>>724229103
Well, you can ride a goat. That's something.

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>>724219283
>>724221019

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>>724218516
>Elden Ring has no gimmicks
Baseless accusation.
>Maliketh parry
>Morgott seal
>Mohg seal
>Miquella's rune
But beyond that
>Invisible Black Knife assassins you can only see with a torch
>Physick that nullifies you to the Blood Ritual that Mohg casts on you
>You can literally summon a Black Hole of Eternal Darkness that makes the Gideon fight invalid
>Obligatory Storm Ruler moment
>Patches fight gesture gimmick
>Healing AoEs heavily damage one of the most aggressive boss enemies in the game
I could keep going OP. But I hate you. I hate you fucking stupid Ds3 worshippers and your filth. Elden Ring is the best game in the series next to Demons Souls and I'm glad you tryhard """fans""" that watch Vaatividya and that other lore tranny as well as the pvptards you get all your opinions on fucking hated the game at first while I was bathing in gold.

>>724232061
You realize he's shitting on ds3 as well, right?

>>724232061
I agree with you and I love all these games, but you gotta admit they are nowhere near as consequential as knocking bossess off their arenas with alternate methods. They are mostly things that give you a slight benefit in the fight which will play out as intended.

>>724218516
I didn't do any of those.
Smack boss, win.
Elden ring is better.

>>724229832
I shouldn't be blamed for your terrible reading comprehension. "Moving the goalposts" lmao shut the fuck up with your flagrant misuse of buzzwords

>>724232061
I can only assume "Ds3" is a typo

Elden ring was fine but shadows of the turdtree killed it dead holy fuck what a mess

>>724232161
>I agree with you even though you're a retard and objectively wrong by my own admission

>>724230227
You have too much nigger blood in your veins so you can't understand the nuance of the discussion. A recycled entity in DS is a formerly challenging boss becoming a common enemy as you progress through the game. A recycled entity in ER is a common mook you've already encountered by the dozen in the open world turned bullet sponge with a more prominent hp bar.

>>724220746
But it makes exploring the world more engaging, and that's a good thing. No other game does it like DS2.
>>724221213
>All the shit Op described is garbage detatched from the actual fight and a low form of gimmick desperately trying to add depth and variety
But the "gimmicks" don't add anything, they're a part of the fight.
>Look at Loyce King or whatever he is called. He is only memorable for a shitty gank fight but nothing about him is unique. It's a dude with a sword and NPC summons.
The ganks are what is unique about the fight.
>Now compare it with Nameless King fought in a Storm as it uses wind attacks from range and lightning strikes, and you see it has an actual identity.
OP lists a bunch of unique interactions, you list what, a moveset? It's still just rolling through every single attack. What identity? The camera will just obscure 90% of the VFX that are supposed to be the essence of the fight.
This is your brain on Dark Souls 3.

>>724232150
He could be shitting on ds1 and still be as braindead as a ds3 fan. When Ds3 came out the series was flooded with a bunch of cheating, lying chinks, trannies and ESLs thinking that getting gud was the only point of the game. I'm glad Elden Ring made the game accessible to normies because the developers know how to make a palatable, responsive game for people that do their own research rather than just look up a guide.
>>72423216
You're half right.
Elden Ring was made and marketed with Multiplayer in mind. It's entirely an intentional thing they did, it's not like they're being dishonest that bosses can't be killed due to an easy Out-of-bounds gimmick (even though Margott and some other bosses actually can). Demons Souls beats Elden Ring in that department, so it still ages the best out of virtually every other game they've created. It's "tied" with Elden Ring in that ER has so much replayability especially with SOTE that it would be crazy not to rank the enjoyment that much higher.

>>724232442
How is the former better than the latter? Let's use cara demon as an example. How is the reuse of capra more justifyable than ER reuses.

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Maybe this is ignorant to say, but I never 'get' the debates between games. Everyone acts with such vitriol, like the mere existence of the other games than the one(s) they like is an insult, when Fromsoft by their nature are always adjusting and trying different things

I especially don't get it when the core elements of the games are so similar. Like, I'd get it if you went from a turn based game to real time or something, but the core elements of the games are so similar I don't get why you all get so angry at each other. I've played pretty everything except Kings Field and thought they were all pretty good even if different.

I just don't get it

>>724232732
We're mentally ill here.

>>724232732
Thats, like, the essence and the core of internet arguments. No real point in typing anything other then rage ofc noone is going to convince anyone in anything

>>724232590
>>724232161
Sorry for you
>>724232364
Japan said this

>>724232726
Because it shows the player how much their character has grown within the context of the game world by pitting them against enemies that were considered challenging enough to gatekeep new areas and items. One of the countless generic demihumans you encounter in every field of Elden Ring turning into a tank because he was in an arbitrary cave makes no sense.

>>724220746
>footage from tranny speedrunner with optimal build and pattern fishing
woah

>>724232590
>He could be shitting on ds1 and still be as braindead as a ds3 fan
What the fuck are you saying?

>>724218516
>forcing you to one-hand
ah yes, the lost art of figting without a lock on.

>>724233056
I'm sorry, but I'd rather deal with a bunch of enemies turned field bosses than with the throng of borderline T-posing Capra and Taurus demons od DS1. Both aren't ideal, btw.

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>>724233230

>>724233056
>One of the countless generic demihumans you encounter in every field of Elden Ring turning into a tank because he was in an arbitrary cave makes no sense.
When did this happen?

>>724233430
>When did this happen?
/v/ once again proving that they don't play video-games

>>724233056
The caves in Elden Ring are meant to be the equivalent of the chalice dungeons from BB (even down to having to pull a lever to unlock the boss). Both the caves and the chalice dungeons turn regular enemies into bosses (brain-sucker, merciless watcher). Except BB gets a pass for doing it, and not ER.
This is yet another example of:
>old Fromsoft games does seomthing: no one bats an eye
>Elden Ring does the same thing: everyone loses their minds!!

>>724233430
Dunno, 10 minutes? after you leave the tutorial area if you explore instead of following the grace.

>>724233430
He's talking about the DLC (which I think is shit, unlike base game).

>>724233583
BB chalice dungeons are universally considered shit by literally everyone. Every criticism of the game starts with them because not even the most diehard golems can bring themselves to defend it.

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>>724221314
my God, DS2 is trash.

>>724233583
Literally everyone shits on the chalice dungeons, you disingenuous faggot. And even then, at least the chalice dungeons are cleanly segregated from the rest of the game and have original bosses. Imagine if the chalice dungeons were woven into the actual game. That's what Elden Ring is like. Of course, it's easy to avoid them, but it's still an ugly blight on the game that you can't ignore

>>724233720
>BB chalice dungeons are universally considered shit by literally everyone.
Not by me.

>>724233784
I am so, so sorry about what they did to you.

>>724233818
kek

>>724219283
only browns and mutts have an obsession with being white. it makes so much sense now. DS2 is a jeet game.

>>724233963
tsmt real white want to be black

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>>724218516
Just here to complain about SOTE being a pile of dogshit, how can redditors defend this garbage?
>open world filled with nothing, areas that are completely empty like finger ruins, cerulean coast, hinterlands
>reused bosses that were already reused 50 times in the base game
>bloated loot pool filled with useless shit like smithing stone 3s in an end game dlc
>bosses are either spastics with 500 string combos or so big and unwieldy they break the camera every 5 seconds
>mauseoleums are just a generic npc fight but they have 20k hp now
>final boss is worse than fanmade bosses
>every single boss is the same rollslop spectacle shit
I could think of more, but this is what comes to mind.

>>724218516
>>you can't lock onto the Lost Sinner without a torch, forcing you to one-hand
How the fuck do people still not know you can turn the lights from outside

>>724218639
Not in dark souls 2 because that’s when 8 way lock on movement was added

>>724234163
>>every single boss is the same rollslop spectacle shit
I was thinking people were exagerating when they said the combat was too anime... until I played it. And let's not even talk about the Miquella/Radahn faggotry.
Base game is still the best Fromsoft product in my eyes, with BB and SEK being close seconds.

>>724222285
There isn’t rain in dark souls 2 what is this chatGPT slop stopped reading there

>>724218516
>you can't lock onto the Lost Sinner without a torch, forcing you to one-hand
You mean like how you can't lock onto or even fucking see the invisible Black Knife in the Altus cave or the curseblade in the frozen gaol that also literally fills the arena with smoke until you light up the other torches?
>if you wear Velstadt's helmet, the Fume Knight will skip straight to his second phase
Like how you need the Lion Dancer's head to interact with Grandam at all?
>when you get Sif down, she'll limp pathetically towards you
In ER you can give demihumans permanent PTSD by baiting ballista shots towards them and they'll stop doing anything and just cower
>you have to kill the revival mage outside of the boss arena before killing Fool's Idol
you mean like all the fights that involve spiritcaller snakes which will keep summoning shit at you until you find them and kill them?
>if you're skilled enough, you can two-shot the Pursurer with the ballista
Is this supposed to be impressive? You can also bait enemies that use ballistas to kill their own in ER, ER has a much higher skill ceiling by default.
>if you're skilled enough, you can slip past Garl and kill Maiden Astraea
Skilled enough? Just run nigger, same thing with the spiritcaller snake fight where it summons a crucible knight ghost, you just run towards the visual signs and whack the snake, big deal
>you should drain the poison in Mytha's room first
You should also get Eleonar's flask before fighting Mohg, so?
>you should raise the platforms in the Dragonrider's room first so he can't hit you off
And? I can also backtrack onto the tree branches in Elphael so the Ulcerated Spirit in there can't hit me.
>the Old Hero is blind
And Mohg and Morgott can be be cheesed by slamming their face down with their seals, just liks Gas Coin, do you think "use item for special interaction" is something only DeS did?

It's been FOUR YEARS and you're still peddling easily detectable lies and nonsense, when will you learn?

>>724234163
>oh my science the heckin rollerinos
The most common and easy way to solo the final boss is with a shield blocking everything

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>>724234163
consort radahn had a straight up broken attack that was undodgeable without either using specific ashes of war or the backstep iframe talisman until they patched it. shows how much they gave a fuck about the dlc if they accidentally put an attack like that in the game, the expansion was clearly rushed as evident from how empty the map is

>>724234480
>Black Knife
That's an enemy.
>Grandam
Uh... that's a fucking NPC lmao
>Demihumans
That's an enemy.
>Spiritcaller snakes
That's an enemy.
>ballista enemies
...That's an enemy.
>Spiritcaller snake w/ crucible knight ghost
Again, that's an enemy.
>Ulcerated Spirit
That's literally an enemy.
>Mohg and Morgott
Okay yeah the shackles are cool but why did you attach that to Old Hero? There's no special items involved in Old Hero, he's just blind. I'm guessing that was a typo or something.
>Four years
Take your meds, schizo

Congratulations, you are officially the stupidest person in this thread, which is really saying something

>>724234870
>>Black Knife
>That's an enemy.
by the same standard Taurus and Capra demons aren't bosses, right?
>inb4 yes

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>>724234870
>That's an enemy.
They are bosses, with a boss health bar and a name above no matter how much cope and cry about it.
If those aren't bosses then neither are things like Pursuer, Capra Demon, Asylum Demon and whatever bosses get turned into common enemies, viceversa or are simply early mobs that are promoted to boss status.
Not to mention, a fight is a fight regardless of whether you have a health bar with a name attached to it.
>yeah the shackles are cool but why did you attach that to Old Hero
Because apparently you never played DeS either so you fail to mention that Old Hero's blindness gimmick is about equipping the Thief's Ring to muffle your steps so he can't hear you and his actual blindness gimmick sorta kicks in, it still really doesn't because you have to play cat and mouse and get away from him to deaggro and trigger the gimmick again after each engagement, without the Thief's ring Old Hero is literally just a generic boss

>>724235090
This point has already been discussed several times in this thread. I'm not spoonfeeding, lurk moar, faggot

>>724235142
>a fight is a fight regardless of whether you have a health bar with a name attached to it.
These disingenuous niggers can't comprehend this. Or perhaps they do, and chose to hide behind pedantry and semantics.
>erm, *adjusts glasses* akchually, that's not a boss

>>724235282
>it has already been deboonked!
tranny mentality

>>724235142
I had the Thief's ring equipped for most of the game so I never noticed. The Thief's ring is practically essentially for the Old Hero's runback as well, due to the persistent skeletons. But anyways, your equivalency is still retarded. Using an item to get a few cheap hits on Morgott and Mohg isn't comparable to completely changing the boss's AI and pathfinding by blinding him

subhuman spic hours already huh.

>>724235335
>it's tranny mentality because... BECAUSE I SAID SO, OKAY??
Why are you this mad over something so trivial? You know someone's mad when they start throwing out insults that make no sense

>>724234813
>Whine that the game is roll slop
>But also whine when you can't just roll though something easily

>>724235523
>tranny meltdown
like clockwork.
I accept your concession.
Better luck next time.

>>724218731
Yeah, learning from the mistakes and bad ideas so as to never repeat them is having those ideas carry and shape the rest of the series.

>>724220746
>the gaping anus shield
really hate that they replaced grass crest with this

Reminder that >>724235661 is a grown man

>>724235605
where was i whining that the game is rollslop, retard? if the game fundamentally revolves around a universal mechanic, then it would be nice if the mechanic would work 100% of the time if your timing and direction is right.

>>724235806
It might not be a woman but that doesn't make it a man.

>>724235806
>can't hadnle defeat well
Sir, this is a Wendy's. Please calm down.

>>724235917
>hadnle

>>724236015
You just ended my ENTIRE existence.
Well done to you, sir.

>>724236167
Yeah, it's very tragic you ruined your otherwise bulletproof argument of "you're a tranny" by making a minor spelling mistake. You were doing so well

>>724236231
>You were doing so well
I was so close... Yet so far...

>>724235812
>if the game fundamentally revolves around a universal mechanic
Good thing that ER is not designed solely around rolling. 9/10 starting classes come with a parry shield. A fresh character can block, parry and jump and if you chose to make your build worse than a starting class that's entirely your fault.

>>724230054
roots of what? outdated mech games, first person dungeon crawlers that make TeS games look like masterpieces, and slop ninja games? there's a lot of room to grow and improve from where fromsoft is now, and they are getting a bit stale with the dark fantasy ARPG stuff, but to say they need to go back to anything they were doing before is retarded.

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>>724218516

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>nobody mentioned using frost pots to cancel waterfowl dance

>>724234417
there is, its literally how you bug Brightbug's to keep the buff on you without it running out

https://youtu.be/XfIJFjTTz-s?t=644

and it LITERALLY needs to rain to do it

>>724218731
>brooo ds2 was so good
>*Doesn't bring any of the cool mechanics it had for any of the subsequent games*
There's literally no reason to not bring back bonfire ascetics

>>724218516
All pointless gimmicks.
Devs should spend more time on what players actually care about, the combat encounters and world aesthetic.

>>724233107
>standing still and rolling to the right is cheese
You people are genuinely fucking retarded.

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>>724218516
>the player's idle animation changes both when low on health or out of breath when low on stamina
>a weapon's moveset changes when you break its durability for the first time
>getting wet by rolling on water lowers your defense against lightning and increases it against fire
>wearing Vendrick's ring prevents the statues in Drangleic Castle from attacking because they recognize your royal authority
DS2 is like the most polished janky mess I've ever played

>>724237193
Now try replicating it

>>724237307
You defended the fight, post your gameplay of that strat not working.

>>724218516
>if you're skilled enough, you can two-shot the Pursurer with the ballista
but I used the ballista because I was not skilled enough :)

>>724237386
I'm not the one that posted it. Try replicating it.

>>724233107
thats not a speedrun build subhuman-chan

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>>724234163
Turdtree was a complete waste of time, how the fuck From's captive fanbase could stomach killing the same fucking dragons and the same fucking shrimp bugmen and soldiers and beastmen and generic shadow hollows over and over and over is beyond me. And it's not like the main dungeons like the shadow keep were even any good either

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>>724236857
>nobody mentioned that you can turn the entire game and all boss fights into sekiro for 5 minutes at a time with nearly any weapon or shield, and it either trivializes or enhances everything

>>724237752
hurrpty durrpty it has pretty colors *drools*

>>724224357
One of the annoying things about Elden Ring is how bosses just glide on invisible walls instead of going over edges.
Only field bosses can be tricked off edges.

>>724218516
>Slip past Garl and Kill Maiden Astraea
That's a hilariously bad idea.

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>>724234813
I was actually dodging it around 50% of the time with proper positioning and a roll
positioning being a counter seems to be a lost art nowadays
the damage was unreal though, an extremely hard-to-evade attack can't also be dealing such damage

>>724229869
>maliketh springboards off pillars in his room
>placidusax spawns a lightning storm around him making you dodge bolts as you fight him
>morgott creates two types of area denial attacks, falling swords and geysers
>mogh spreads flames around his arena
>malenia's fight is flooded in the center which dynamically changes resistances
Modern FromSoft design is about dynamism and the play adapting to changing circumstances.

>>724234163
>>bloated loot pool filled with useless shit like smithing stone 3s in an end game dlc
This is intentional.
It was designed this way so you could go from 0 to +25/10 entirely in the DLC.
"Stranded in the Land of Shadow" playthroughs are common because Fromsoft accommodated that type of campaign.

>>724238390
Area attacks aren't dynamic
What would've been dynamic:
>being able to destroy Maliketh's pillars to stop his combos
>draining the water from Malenia's arena to make her stronger but make her rot more severe causing her to continously lose HP
>destroying trees in Fire Giants arena would cause a landslide breaking his leg and skipping to phase 2
etc.

Dark Souls 2 and 3 are both dogshit in their own ways and can't stack up to any other games in the series

>>724238678
>dynamism is skipping half the fights
No thanks

>>724238778
This, but dark souls.
It was just a shameless des ripoff, with zero originality or quality of original

>>724232732
You are right. For this reason I don't believe the vast majority of critique and complaints given to one title or another are done in good faith and genuinely honest.

>>724235462
>>724218516
You can do the Old Hero thing with Assassin's Gambit and Unseen Form in ER.
Multiple bosses will be unable to detect you if you use them together, so you can sneak up on them.

>>724237247
90% of the random bullshit in 2 got added in Scholar because they had to find some way to make up for how the level design wasn't going to be getting better (which they never really did)

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>>724234813
>undodgeable without either using specific ashes of war or the backstep iframe talisman until they patched it
if you're talking about the cross slash, it was dodgeable with light roll, and dodgeable with medium roll if you were standing to Radahn's right side. it def should have been patched because the average player was never going to figure out how to roll it, but you're making it sound worse than it was like people always do when talking about pre nerf bosses.

It's actually embarrassing how Fromsoft decided that people only want to fight Artorias and made him a baseline for all their modern bosses, pushing their outdated combat mechanics to their limits and losing all the soul in the process.

>>724239209
>outdated combat mechanics
No action game does them better.

>>724238958
It's funny because for Maliketh specifically you're already rewarded by the game for finishing most of volcano manor before the fight with Bernahl's drop, you just still have to actually be able to properly time the special rune of death parry during the fight instead of having some random bullshit that inherently makes the fight easier