Do some LSD, you'll have one of the greatest 3d adventures of your life

>>724238898
What does this have to do with videogames and why does it feel like youre being indirectly mean and dismissively disrespectful?

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>>724239053
don't be such a downer dude

Does ANYBODY here play videogames?

>>724239053
NTA but your criteria is so specific I can't fathom a serious answer any time soon

>>724240205
No. Why would you even ask

>>724240380
I need some shit to play asap. My faith in videogames is literally crumbling, everything is the fucking same and nothing is interesting or surprising anymore.

>>724240372
>NTA but your criteria is so specific I can't fathom a serious answer any time soon
My Criteria HAS to be so specific because ive played so many empy, hollow games, that are more copied of other games, than anything with any semblance of structure, design, intentionality, purpose.

When you play hundreds of advenrure games and either all of them have "push forward platforming", "avoid dangerous spike, laser, water you arbitrarily cant swim in", "shoot target to progress, bomb cracked wall to progress", "press contexual button at grapple point to grapple" INSTANCES OF "GAMEPLAY" and almost NO OTHER SUBSTANCE, DEPTH. when you learn that videogames are more concerned with invoking the feeling of INTERACTION FOR INTERACTIONS SAKE, and NOTHING ELSE because everything else is about appearances. "atmosphere". invoking a feeling, a sense of something, "rewarding" the player with more and more gameplay full of meaningless interactions for its own sake so that they feel like theyre progressing, but theyre not really doing anything...

Then that conclusive set of facts leads one to me. And my OP. Which is both a stance on videogames. And a desperate reaching out for it to be saved.

yo dis nigga (op) yappin doe fr

>>724239053
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/xngBF-sWsLg

Horizon Forbidden West, God of War Ragnarok, Luigi's Mansion Sequels, Outer Wilds
Anybody who disagrees correct me if im wrong.

>>724238818
I can hear the fat in this mush mouth autist's voice.

>>724238818
I've been looking for this too, recently finished Evergrace and it was okay I guess. Definitely unique but not always in a good way. At any rate it doesn't have any platforming worth mentioning and the puzzles are slightly more complex than a resident evil game.

As for your question, the only game I can think of is La Mulana, but it's 2D and I'm not sure you'd like the way puzzles are implemented in it.

>>724243814
im actually skinny

>>724244086
>and the puzzles are slightly more complex than a resident evil game.
that sounds like a good thing not a bad thing
>and I'm not sure you'd like the way puzzles are implemented in it.
weeelllll..."hold down to press weight to open random thing" and "hit arbitrarily breakable wall, or walk through arbitrarily passable solid wall" are not things ive been known to find intelligently designed...

>>724240380
Because once upon a time this board was actually about discussing vidya instead of posting ironic shitposts and low-effort bait. The guy laid out a pretty solid thesis on how mechanical depth and intentional design have evaporated from modern games, and y’all treat it like he farted in church. If you can’t name a single game that meets his criteria that doesn’t fall into "3 hours of filler, one 10-minute 'puzzle dungeon'," then maybe that’s the point.

bump to save videogames

>>724245285
Also this guy gets it. But I have a weird feeling this is a slyly mocking post. Its rare I'm understood or agreed with on /v/ let alone anybody defends me.

final bump

evergrace it is...

american mcgees alice and its sequel
conkers bad fur day
drowned god if you want to put your thinking cap on for puzzles
kao the kangaroo on ps2
i-ninja
deblob
rocket robot on wheels

>>724245285
it's because OP is a schizo who makes these threads constantly and all he does is autistically argue about things not fitting his hyper specific definitions, these threads practically belong on Kfarms lmao

>>724238818
tell me 3 games you like deeply and I'll help you out

>>724250723
How will that help if only one of them has puzzles?

Anyway Ill give you Outer Wilds, Tomb Raider and Dark Souls.

>>724238818
Sable is only platforming and puzzles. No combat.
>No "floaty" platforming. What do I mean? I mean the type of platforming where youre jumping across giant platforms, and you have a convenient ability where you can always just glide enough to close that gap incase you misjudged distance.
It's kinda this though. The literal floating gimmick is a big part of the platforming.

>>724251671
>It's kinda this though. The literal floating gimmick is a big part of the platforming.
Ah fuck. I really dont have much opens do I?

If the puzzles are good enough, I guess I can tolerate it
Ive heard sable is like a BOTW clone though. Is it another huge swaths of empty terrain open world game with little to no structure?

I appreciate the reccs so far btw.

Will definitely check out Evergrace, and this. Hopefully I find more reccs and the thread doesnt die. Dont have it in me to make another right now.

i like videogames

>>724252458
>Dont have it in me to make another right now.
lol
essayfag pls

pity bump

>>724250171
>conkers bad fur day
really? this one has puzzles? interesting...
as for platforming, ive never heard this game talked about for its platforming
>american mcgees alice and its sequel
yeah ive kept my eye on this one, the sequel mostly, dont remember why i didnt want to pull the trigger, i think i asked a diehard fan of the games if the gameplay is good and even he admitted its meh
>drowned god if you want to put your thinking cap on for puzzles
never heard of this one so this is interesting.
>kao the kangaroo on ps2
didnt this one get a remake because it was such a "failure"? i think i saw the steam page for it and it looked typical. maybe the ps2 game is different.
>i-ninja
>deblob
>rocket robot on wheels
okay, ill look em up?

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>>724252458
I wasn't exactly recommending it, but if you go ahead and ty it, make sure to get a pair of these. Also try Shadow of the Colossus if you haven't already.

>>724253758
>Also try Shadow of the Colossus if you haven't already.
nooooo...bad recommendation...horrible even...arguably the worst recommendation possible in this thread that isnt ocarina of time, but atleast even OoT would be understandable because of its enviromental interactivity and...NOT BEING A GLORIFIED BOSS RUSH WITH ZERO GAMEPLAY INBETWEEN AND THE MOST SHALLOW OF MECHANICS POSSIBLE, WITH A LITERAL BUILT IN "FOLLOW THE LINE" MECHANIC, AND GLOWING SPOT WEAKNESSES THAT GET EXCUSED BECAUSE ITS OLD AND LE ARTSY, AND SUDDENLY VIDEOGAMES BEING BRAINDEAD, AND SIGN POSTED DONT MATTER UNLESS WE CAN TURN IT INTO A NARRATIVE ABOUT MODERN GAMES.

sorry, excuse my outburst. i appreciate the attempt nonetheless. better to disagree and understand eachother than to disagree and dismiss one another.

>>724253696
I have a lot of nostalgia for Conker but idk why that anon recommended it in this context. The whole gimmick of the game is the “context sensitive button” aka “stand on circle and press B to make thing happen/equip needed item.” There’s no real brain busters I can remember and you’re basically playing to get to the next cutscene or punchline and see what movie they’re going to spoof.

>>724254424
I see...yeah this is what I thought. I want to believe games with contexual inputs can be good adventure games let alone good games, because Outer Wilds actually doesnt have that much direct interactivity, but theres also so much more of a dynamic world in OW, and I find it hard to believe any ps1, ps2, or fuck even ps3 era game could pull that off based on the ones ive played. But I want to keep an open mind so if anyone can justify that conker suggestion with a simple argument im all ears.

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Didn't read OP but the answer is northern journey.

>>724254965
>Didn't read OP
The OP is essential. I admittedly have had interest in Northern Journey, but 1. Doesnt seem to have controller support. And 2. Not sure if it has any actual gameplay besides combat. I never hear people talk about puzzles or navigation or puzzles, its mostly about the atmosphere and fighting spiders or whatever.

So, can you elaborate?

>>724255405
Didn't read the op or your reply but northern journey is modern kings field

>>724255636
Kings Field are bad games. And incredibly low on interactivity, puzzles, and platforming. Id even go as far as to argue its navigation is overrated as its just walk forward till dead end, then check for the next dead end and rinse and repeat till theres a way forward again.

....

luigis mansion

“Adventure” is too broad a category, and “puzzle” and “platforming” are two extremely distinct elements and you’re either/or-ing them which makes it unclear what you want. Your description would apply well to
>Outer Wilds
If you want puzzles and not platforming
>Super Mario Odyssey
If you want platforming and not puzzles.
>Portal
Satisfies both your platforming expectations and your puzzle expectations but it’s hardly an adventure game. Maybe Portal 2 qualifies as an adventure game?

You need to be more concrete anon. Name some games you’re looking for similar titles to.

>>724260230
It didnt seem too hard for others in the thread to understand. I didnt give a full indepth explanation of "adventure" because thats even harder for retards to understand than just telling them what I dont want.

It doesnt take that much thinking for oneself to figure out what is implied though. Obviously a Sudoku puzzle wouldnt suffice as an adventure game even with a "strong focus on puzzles". I used "focus" for a very specific reason. To imply that I dont just want a PUZZLE game or a PLATFORMING game. But something that has almost equal focus or RESPECT of either or in its game
>and you’re either/or-ing them which makes it unclear what you want.
also this is a stupid retort to make. when i ask for an action game i dont need to say "I WANT BOTH SHOOTING AND MELEE!!!!". if im looking for a fucking action game and appealing to the concept of action, then either or suffices aslong as both appeal to the same principle.

In this case the platforming and puzzles have to appeal to the principle of not being filler, but also not being straightforward in CONTRAST to "simple". Outer Wilds is a simple game with simple mechanics. It is NOT STRAIGHTFORWARD

Mario ODYSSEY IS ONE OF THE MOST BRAINDEAD STRAIGHTFORWARD GAMES EVER.

I will give you that my outline of the game im looking for is predicated on negatives (without) rather than positives (within).

But the question is. Would you really have even bothered with the thread or giving a suggestion if I made the OP even longer? Aslong as two whole posts where I outline not just what I dont want to see in an adventure game, but also what I think are the fundamental pillars and parameters of adventure?

If you say yes. Then I will treat you honestly and give you that. If you dont waste my time. Then i will believe you wont waste mine. I CAN do it. I just dont cuz people have already implied that this thread isnt specific, or people still end up recommending shit like Shadow of the Colossus when I do define adventure

when will this thread die...

poor thread, its actually just about videogames

>>724261176
Nobody is going to read your treatise on any of this shit. It’s very simple.

You make thread.
You say
>I’m looking for more games like [X], [Y], and [Z]
>adventure games with a focus on movement mechanics and puzzles

Look at that, 5 lines. You let the games you choose as points of comparison serve to explain the specifics of what you’re looking for, instead of waiting around for answers and then going
>NO NO NOT LIKE THAT
An anon ITT recommended Shadow of the Colossus; based on your criteria, that’s a GREAT recommendation. It’s a game entirely about puzzles and platforming, since climbing each colossus is a combination of solving environmental and navigational puzzles and precise movement with very unforgiving jumps. And it’s absolutely an adventure game, being a non-abstract game with a character, story, and grand stakes told through both dialogue and environmental worldbuilding.

But you shat all over that recommendation because it didn’t satisfy the specific autistic criteria you’re too medium-illiterate to articulate. So how about you do what every other person on /v/ does when looking for recommendations and name the types of games that DO fit your criteria and ask for more, so we don’t have to waste our time guessing at all your gay ass hidden rules

>>724262882
>climbing each colossus is a combination of solving environmental and navigational puzzles and precise movement with very unforgiving jumps.
you might be unironically retarded.
the only one that can even arguably count as platforming, is the last colossus. and none of the Colossus are puzzles. You dont understand what a puzzle means. Which I already clarified what a puzzle is in OP. A trial and error "Pull X amount of levels in an arbitrary order to open the door" (which btw is a real puzzle in a real zelda game lmao) is the effective equivalent to every single "puzzle" in SOTC. Theres no actual interactivity beyond combat, every interaction is contexual, most colossi can be "solved" accidentally and most solutions either make zero sense, or are as simple doing whatever is the equivalentof "hey let me have you attention" to a colossi

>>724263358
Which, okay, that’s fair. But you didn’t say any of that in the OP. You only said “no burn the web with fire” puzzles AKA the “puzzle” is remembering that you have an item and then using that item. SOTC is more complex than that, and involves things like running through tunnels so the AI will bend over to look inside and let you hop on it, getting the enemy to smash floorboards to fling you to a higher level where you can reach it, getting the enemy to strike a stone in the ground to get its weapon stuck so you can run up it, etc.

SOTC isn’t the kind of game you’re looking for. Fine. But none of us knows what type of game you ARE looking for and everyone else has already long since lost the patience to play 20 questions with you, so nex time name some fucking example games and maybe your thread won’t die with no useful responses, idiot

>>724262882
>So how about you do what every other person on /v/ does when looking for recommendations and name the types of games that DO fit your criteria and ask for more, so we don’t have to waste our time guessing at all your gay ass hidden rules
Retard. If I was looking for a game that already existed as far as I could tell. I would ask. If I say "Zelda" I dont get the game Im looking for because every fucking zelda like has the exact same shitty flaws as zelda. If I say "Outer Wilds". I dont get anything like Outer Wilds, because people dont understand outer wilds, instead I get this arbitrary made up genre grouping of puzzle games that have secrets and hide facts about things you can already, which a billion games already do but dont get called metroibrainias because its a genre without substance that is supposed to fulfill an aesthetic. Not an essence. Hence nearly every single "metroidbrania" game can be NOTHING like Outer wilds, can be blends of other kinds of shitty genres that would have ruined outer wilds, or made it other than what it was. And yet still be considered the same.

If I saw Outer Wilds Ill get recommended shit like Tunic and The Witness.

Im smarter than you, im smarter than most of the people who would reply to this thread. I see far ahead of all of you. I know what im fucking doing, and im not even "smart" because im "intelligent". Im "smart" because I have willingly put myself in the situations to argue over these games, these definitions, these concepts and have been wrong enough about what i expected people to think, to understand, to conclude that I know how most will misinterpret me. Or choose to understand themselves over understanding somebody else if that makes sense.

I will get called all kinds of names for being open and honest about this even though its context, not self aggrandizing.

>>724240205
You've asked before and I'm assuming have yet to get a satisfactory answer considering you made your thread again. I read it and just felt you were being so specific it would be an impossible task to answer. Good luck. And stop capitalizing words so much for emphasis. That's my move.

>>724263678
>Which, okay, that’s fair. But you didn’t say any of that in the OP. You only said “no burn the web with fire” puzzles AKA the “puzzle” is remembering that you have an item and then using that item.
Are you kidding me retard? Thats not the implication of the problem wirh "Burn the Web" puzzles. Oh my god im too tired to do this.

What kind of stupid shit is this? How fucking arbitrary would it be to dismiss a puzzle for making you remember to do something? That is LITERALLY EVERY SINGLE OUTER WILDS PUZZLE. REMEMBERING SOME PAST INFORMATION TO USE IT.

This is why I used to always say "rock paper scissors" "puzzles". Because the implication by framing it that way...IS THAT ROCK PAPER SCISSORS OBVIOUSLY ISNT A FUCKING PUZZLE. THAT is the problem with those type of "puzzles" theyre not real puzzles. Theyre about identifying what you need to do to "BEAT" the obstacle. And they often involve no mechanical or skillful action. So theyre mechanically empty. They have no point no substance.

This is why I dont like "is a puzzle easy or hard!" because it is VERY easy to arbitrarily make a type of puzzle like that "hard". All you would have to do is make it unclear what type of item youre supposed to use, or HOW youre supposed to use the item. Basically break the rules of the game. If somebody watches a rock paper scissors game for the first time, with no explanation of the rules, and is expected to play next, and they make a weird hand sign that isnt part of the game. They would "lose" or be "disqualified" from the game because they arent playing it right.

This is the essence of almost all my criticisms of any puzzle in any game. If it cannot be solved logically. If it must be solved by simply KNOWLEDGE. KNOWING rather than understanding. Then it is not a puzzle. This is why trial and error sequences are bad and not puzzles. This is why Shadow of the Colossus isnt a puzzle. You mention "omg so complex you have to go under tunnel so colossi follow"

BUT YOURE STRICTLY AND SIMPLY LOOKING AT THE CAUSE AND EFFECT. Not the actual process. When you get to the second colossi. Do you know why I went under the bridge or tunnel or whatever the fuck? BECAUSE THERE WAS FUCKING NOTHING ELSE TO DO. The range of interactions and the dynamism of the actual levels and world is so fucking little but ALSO so out of your control in how you can directly affect it. That you cant do anything other than run around the place, looking for something to do, or someplace to go, until the fucking colossi does what you want. Because the stupid fucking game is a retarded shallow mess of thoughtless mechanics. It is a SHIT game. Its "platforming" isnt PRECISE. OR HARD. YOU CAN HOLD THE GRAB BUTTON BEFORE YOU EVEN GRAB, WHILE IN THE AIR. CLIMBING THE COLOSSUS IS LITERALLY THE DEFINITION OF PUSH FORWARD GAMEPLAY. THE ONLY REASON ANY OF THE PLATFORMING CAN BE CONSIDERED "HARD" IS BECAUSE I HAVE PLAYED THIS GAME TOO MANY FUCKING TIMES AND THE CHARACTER WILL RANDOMLY FUCKING STUMBLE ALMOST EVERY FUCKING SECOND BEFORE AND AFTER A JUMP AND ITS EVENE WORSE WHEN A COLOSSI STOMPS 5 FEET AWAY FROM HIM

FUCK YOU FOR EVEN APPLYING THIS GAME IS EVEN CLOSE TO ANYTHING ADVENTURE OR ANYTHING GOOD

>>724263989
>I read it and just felt you were being so specific it would be an impossible task to answer.
I thought the problem before was actually that i wasnt being specific enough, now it's being too specific. i cant win.

yo this thread kinda gawdlike people actually talk about videogames on /v/?

People can really drop paragraphs about videogames without talking about trannies, woke politics, graphics, narratives, multiplayer and more?

>>724265615
Yes. If youre passionate about videogames and respect videogames as a medium.

>>724265615
its all chatgpt output

>>724239053
>Using the word "mean"
NGMI

>>724265727
This makes no sense. Chat GPT wouldnt all caps like that. Nor would it make the rock paper scissors analogy, because it copies directly from the most popular perspectives it sees online on places like reddit, and such analogy is never used there. Reddit doesn't even talk about videogames any other way than how it affects their feelings.

>>724261176
>>724238818
platforming is literally the worst part about "adventure" games you are talking about, hell technically the braindead uncharted games fit your criteria
You should either play something for platformings sake, something that's a 3D platformer first and foremost, or you should play some other kind of adventure style game.
>>724240681
the things you complain about here are literally a systemic issue with this genre, you're simply not going to escape it because in any 3D game I can think of they have contextual actions, they have interaction for interactions sake, they have shallow platforming or whatever. Every game made in this genre was intended for mass appeal.
there are simply better adventures to be had in other genres like some sort of advanced dungeon crawler or something.

Skyrim. And if you don't like an aspect, mod it.

>>724266982
>technically the braindead uncharted games fit your criteria
In what fucking way does Uncharted "push forward to platform" technically fit my criteria??
>You should either play something for platformings sake, something that's a 3D platformer first and foremost
No, because you dont understand im criticizing them too. When I talk about "floaty" platforming or "gliding platforming" or "huge platforms you can basically not miss" im also talking about shit like Banjo Kazooie, Spyro, Ratchet and Clank, and even some Mario games. Mostly Galaxy and Sunshine, but even 64 applies with its "barely use any move but longjump and double jump".

Then theres shit like Rayman that I was accounting for. Where the game is designed around slowing down platforming so much that its a wasting game. Whether its "waiting for platforms to appear" or "Waiting for laser grids to come to you with onr safe opening to stand in". Or "jump over laser grids where the lasers are all on the bottom half of the screen, and you have to jump up". Or whether its "slide down this slippery slide like youre snowboarding and avoid all the spikes!" it shares a lot of similarities with another game you wont know called Kya. Where there are multiple points where wind will blow you off so you have to wait for the specific safe area you can climb to, to not blow off".

I call this "hazardous waiting platforming" where the threat of the hazard is more significant than the mechanical difficulty of what you actually have to do.

I want to make it clear. Not EVERY game with spikes. Or every game with some obstacle you have to jump over is like this. Something like Celeste could easily be pidgeoned down this hole by a retard, but it has far more depth, and even variety than that.

Anyway this entire thread and crusade was spurred after I played a bunch of PS2 games and realized how simialrly shallow they are.

YOU think 3D platformers are the answer. I think videogames as a whole are likely just shit.

>>724266982
>the things you complain about here are literally a systemic issue with this genre
I probably agree with you here. Although I wouldnt reduce it to just this action adventure genre.

>Every game made in this genre was intended for mass appeal.
This is a stupid thing to say after you just suggested me 3D platformers as an alternative answer.

>there are simply better adventures to be had in other genres like some sort of advanced dungeon crawler or something.

Like what? Seriously? not trying to be hostile. But so god help me if you say kings field.

bumping this thread because i'm curious. do any pre 2000s games fit this description?

also i'm playing luigi's mansion 3 rn because its halloween and it's kind of a decent adventure/puzzle game but it does fall into the "use x here" habit often. anyone know if the other luigi's mansion games are like this?

Consider Okami

>>724268702
>do any pre 2000s games fit this description?
Most games dont fit this description at all but some definitely do. I havent played too many pre 2000 games. But of the ones I have.

All of pre 2000s Tomb Raider fits. Resident Evil up to 3 fits. Super Metroid, and ONLY super Metroid. Not SOTN. Fits.

I know people are expecting me to say OoT. But I think OoT is so bad for videogames that to me it is borderline the single source of all the "Use X here" "puzzles" in every subsequent adventure game. No item epitomizes this more than the Bomb and The Cracked Wall. Although every single other item follows the same rule. The Hookshot and the Hookshot point. People will say "but you can hookshot wood too!" Okay (this isnt even necessarily true there are some wooden things that you cant Hookshot, cant remember for exmaple if ladders are hookshottable but I know some wooden stuff isnt) how does that do anything other than make it so that Scissors not only beats rock, but some other mysteriously added finger sign?

I have a love and hate relationship with zelda though (mostly hate) because it also sparked my interest in puzzles in adventure games) as theoretically the concept of a "dungeon" or rather "temple" since zelda levels are unique even compared to dungeon crawlers. Is theoretically the perfect storm for every pillar of what i consider adventure (Platforming/Traversal, Puzzle/Problem Solving, Exploration/Navigation) to come together into a beautiful cohesive whole. I mean tomb raider has this too, but it doesnt have the enviromental interaction. Its puzzle is the navigation + platforming combined together. So its less cleanly dileneated as zelda. In the sense that puzzles are often seperate from the platforming (partly because the platforming is so simple its literally push forward to contexually jump) and the navigation, since it leads to one another, rather than is a mix of one another if that makes sense.

>>724268702
I dont seek out 2D games, so I cant really give you anything before the ps1 era that isnt super metroid. And it should be pretty obvious why i dont bring up any of the past 2D zelda games. I will say that Minish Cap is like the only good zelda game in the entire series if youre not a retard.

I will say too that. Banjo Tooie specifically, not Kazooie. Also meets my criteria, although that game has its own host of problems besides failing as adventure that hold it back.

>>724268990
Maybe you didnt pick up based on my criteria that almost every zelda game would automatically be disqualified, but Okami isnt just a "zelda game" its a "zelda game" that exemplifies the worst of zelda. Took me 6 hours to get to the first dungeon. Need i say more?

please stop writing essays about videogames nobodys going to read all that we prefer our simple twitter screencap narrative baits where we can comfortably circlejerk

Retry tomorrow?

>>724255636
any other modern king's field like games?

>>724267813
I played grimrock blind last month and it was great, fantastic mega dungeon with lots of secrets and puzzles. I was playing Hollow Knight around the same time and dropped it because all the indie metroidvanias don't scratch the exploration itch the way this game did.

>>724271265
dude grimrock 1 is so much fun. I liked grimrock 2 as well, but there's something about one massive dungeon that just hits better than multiple smaller dungeons

Dragon's Dogma: Dark Arisen

>>724267704
I DON'T think 3D platformers are the answer I said you should avoid platforming altogether and if you wanted it pick a game where that's the only focus. I don't personally know any 3D platformers other than like Mario 3D world that don't have this adventure game focus since most of the ones that got made are some scrimblo mascot shit, so don't ask me for suggestions. I think any "platformer" makes for a shitty action adventure, it's always the worst part of every single action adventure, platforming has always been a tighter and better experience in 2D games and modern 3D platforming is streamerbait ragegame shit like Get to Work

>>724271371
great choice

>>724271562
>platforming has always been a tighter and better experience in 2D games and modern 3D platforming
I mean I get it. But Platforming has so much more potential with the addition of navigational complexity on top of mechanical precision. Celeste is one of my favourite games ever. Its much easier to make a good and most importantly CONSISTENT 2D platformer.

But if every single level in Tomb Raider 3 was the exact quality of Aldywhch then it would probably be my favourite game of all time. Not just my 3rd or top 5. I could explain it to you, but you wouldnt get it. There is something fundamentally different about being able to have that much control of a character in that much space (3D) truing to figure out how to get around a level. Typical 3D platformers are designed too openly, with platforms too big, where every direction is the right direction because its not really about platforming, its more akin to a treasure hunt, and whats the point of tight precision platforming in a collectathon? There are only so many way you can place a collectible that doesnt destroy the platforming, or just make it the equivalent of a linear 2D game where you just get the collectible at the end of the obstacle course. (think something like Rayman 2)

>>724271371
>>724271595
Is there something im missing about this game? Did i play it wrong? Because it just felt like an incredibly slow open world esque game where you just run around fighting the same enemy/enemy camp.

How should I play it to appreciate the adventure (assuming any of you even read my criteria rather than just retardedly recommending any game you think FEELS like "adventure")

>>724238818
majora's mask

>>724271265
Hm. Interesting, ive been recommended this one a lot. It really does not seem like my type of game, but ive seriously been recommended it so much that I guess I have to try it out at this point. I tried looking up gameplay and couldnt see any puzzles. Unless the puzzles are "hitting switches"? Idk, im so desperate at this point that fuck it, ill try it anyway.

Portal 2 mods dipshit
Portal Reloaded if you want a challenge

>>724272081
refer to
>724269448
where i criticize OoT briefly.
funnily enough, if i had never played past the 1st dungeon, and engaged with the shit side content then Majoras Mask almost felt like a top 5 games ever contender. Thats how much fun I was having before the game revealed its true colours. MM was actually the game that sent me down this entire crusade and my crusade against zelda, because I saw a potential in zeldas gameplay I never saw before. And hoped that the other zelda games could fulfill it more consistently, and once I learned they couldnt. I looked for other adventure games similar to zelda that could. And once I couldnt find anything there. I started looking for any adventure games at all that could fill that hole. left by woodfall temple

>>724238818
metroid prime 1/2

>>724272412
you have to be joking. in a game where you literally scan things to identify whats interactable? really? really? even without the scan, lock on does enough of the job most of the time. also MPs jump is floaty as fuck, even if it wasnt, the double jump alone plus the giant platforms would trivialize platforming. and dont get me started on the overrated brainless exploration...

>>724238818
I think having both pure sandbox platforming and complex / freeform(? whatever the opposite of "burn the web" is) puzzles is a tall order, especially in 3d, but iiuc I would also like to find those games. (Maybe you're not asking for both genres at once?)

Does Journey fit your criteria?

There are also the trendy sandbox platformers where the actual traversal takes the role of the "freeform puzzle" (if you squint) - see all of the climbing games like Getting Over It, Peak, more recently Baby Steps as a 3d adventure.

Venineth is very lock-and-key, so closer to "burn the web" but the mechanisms you're dealing with are alien, so it feels fresh; and the platforming is consistently fun and freeform.

>>724273301
>I think having both pure sandbox platforming
Thats not what im asking for or else I wouldnt criticze Mario 64, Mario Odyssey and virtually every "3D platformer" ever.
>and complex / freeform(? whatever the opposite of "burn the web" is) puzzles is a tall order
Also not what Im asking for. I never said anything about puzzles needing to be "complex". *sigh* i did do a bad job explaining what I wanted in the OP of the thread then. I should have used the rock paper scissors analogy from the get go.

Also Im not looking for "platforming" per se. Outer Wilds is basically the quintessential game I am describing as the opposite of everything bad in my OP. Theoretically it would actually be a zelda game if good, and there is a romhack I could refer to as an example. But not only is it not close to perfect like OW is, but its also basically unknown to the average anon so theres no point in bringing it up.

Outer Wilds is not a "complex" game with "complex puzzles" (not like thats a concept that even exists but thats another point entirely) I dont have the time to go into what makes Outer Wilds and its puzzles good. But if you understand that going underwater and swimming into a jellyfish to bypass an electric barrier underwater isnt remotely "complex", either mechanically or intelligently then thats sufficient. You could argue theres an intricate or interconnected web of information that led to such action, but thats not necessarily complex.

When I say "burn the web is bad" I am saying it is NOT a puzzle. Not that its tol "easy".

I really dont think what im asking is difficult for game designers to do. Its just that theyre lazy (about the right things (design) and hard working about the wrong things (appearance)) and uncreative so they just copy eachother or what came before.

>>724238818
How about you give examples of pre-2000s stuff you like (and don't like) because your criteria seem oddly specific and vague at the same time. Also you seem slightly insane. Are you essayfag?

>>724273301
>Does Journey fit your criteria?
probably not. nobody ever talks about the gameplay in this game, and just giving a cursory look, i dont even know wtf the gameplay is about
>where the actual traversal takes the role of the "freeform puzzle" (if you squint) - see all of the climbing games like Getting Over It, Peak, more recently Baby Steps as a 3d adventure.
ehhh...i really dont know what you mean by "freeform" i feel like youre injecting words and concepts that i would never use based on your interpretation of what you think i mean.

for example i despise the word "free" and "freedom" in game design talks. I dont have the patience to get into why. It just doesnt refer to anything about a game, it refers to an arbitrary external "ideal" imposed after the fact onto the game. It doesnt matter whether its "intended" as a generic descriptor. Words carry implications with it that obscure what its actually referring to. The best example I could give would actually have to be with a word other than "free" like "repetitive" or "unambitious"

Anyway im getting off track. The games you described are not what id call "puzzle" anyway. Their level design requires no navigation, and in my head I dont understand how platforming can be "like a puzzle" without having to figure out how to get to X spot. You can call this a fault of mine. But id need to hear the argument then.

>Venineth is very lock-and-key, so closer to "burn the web" but the mechanisms you're dealing with are alien, so it feels fresh; and the platforming is consistently fun and freeform.

Ill check it out.

>>724273969
>Also you seem slightly insane.
Retard.
>How about you give examples of pre-2000s stuff you like (and don't like)
I already did. I also already explained why that wouldnt work. Also I have no idea why youd think pre 2000s specifically rather than any other time. The reason I said from 2000 to 2025, is because ive played enough pre 2000s games to know that they dont got what I want for the most part, and ive already found enough of what i want from that era that i dont want to bother with it anymore.

>>724238818
Chess

>>724273953
*le sigh* complex doesn't mean difficult, it just means that the puzzle isn't a "simple" puzzle, i.e. lock-and-key. but i see that your example of OW isn't what I'm calling a complex puzzle. this is what I'm talking about by "freeform" puzzle, which I said in my op (if you think of lock and key as drawing a line from lock to key, a freeform puzzle is seeing an image in a dense field of points - i'm being poetic here but idk, makes sense to me.)

>>724274460
>nobody ever talks about the gameplay in this game
I think if you're asking for people to help you find stuff, you should try a little harder in your own evaluation. but it's all fun and games anyways

>I dont understand how platforming can be "like a puzzle"
I think about this talk from Celeste dev https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RlpMhBKNr0 and the "B game" design of games like Getting Over It (where the level design is more chaotic and tries to let the player find their own routes) makes these even more like a puzzle. which is just how to get to X spot, as you say. but that's still meaningful

>>724274613
Ok, you are essayfag.

>>724275004
>*le sigh* complex doesn't mean difficult, it just means that the puzzle isn't a "simple" puzzle, i.e. lock-and-key.
This is completely arbitrary and makes no sense. Youre defining that into the concept, by presuming a valid "lock and key" framing beforehand. There is a very important reason I use "rock paper scissors" and not "lock and key". The fundamental basis of your judgment is flawed. Youre retarded and dont know what youre talking about and are using words stupidly without thought. Not for the purpose of elucidation. But convenience and usefulness.

Im not reading anything else you have to say related to that because it all rests on fundamentally baseless grounds.

>I think if you're asking for people to help you find stuff, you should try a little harder in your own evaluation.

You know nothing of what effort ive applied to my evaluation. You made the positive claim. The burden is on you to justify what youve asserted. Not on me to prove for myself how something I havent experienced or have no reference for is valid when I have no reason to. Its like somebody saying "Ive read up on sitings of ghosts, nobody ever talks about something that cant be explained scientifically by other factors, internal or external, so i have no idea wtf they could be referring to by ghosts that is objective" and then you retardedly going

"lol! i think if youre asking people to provide evidence for ghosts existing, you should try a little harder in your own evaluation!" Do you now understand how retarded your entire reply so far has been? Do you? Do you have the capacity to think beyond what you think and feel to be valid or reasonable or right, and actually have a standard to appeal to independent of the arbitrary whims of your perceptions?

>I think about this talk from Celeste dev
idk why youd link an entire video instead of just giving a brief overview or explanation but yes if maddy or whatever says theyre game is like a puzzle ill say theyre wrong

>>724272043
sorry to say anon, you got filtered

>>724276437
okay but by what? what did the game have to offer adventure wise besides what i laid out?

>>724276892
sorry I don't read posts longer than a couple sentences

>>724276958
how many words is a sentence?

its rare to see so much super dense discussion about videogames games here nice even if i didnt read op

>>724277767
>its rare to see so much super dense discussion
what discussion? It's just one guy essayposting to himself

>>724278001
>It's just one guy essayposting to himself
Im trying to find anybody intelligent to talk to, some dude linked me an entire fucking youtube video like i was just going to go watch it in the middle of doing shit

>>724278207
Anon...
Nothing about your thread says "intelligent" whatsoever.

>>724278671
just cuz im not intelligent doesnt mean everybody else has to be too.

try again tomorrow?

>>724279728
tomorrow :D

decent attempt at discussion op

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>>724238818
>essayfag
i got here a little bit late, but just in time to call you a dumbass. fuck you.

sad thread

if you want a game with puzzles and creative puzzle solving in ways that don't really get old, you should just learn to play limited on magic arena or MTGO. draft and sealed and cube are endless fun with loads of puzzle solving throughout the deck building process and the actual matches when you play with the decks. it might not be adventure, it might not 3d, it might not have platforming or action, but it is some of the most interesting "puzzling" you could be doing.

have you played blue prince? you'd probably hate it but give it a chance.

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>>724238818
skyrim

>>724283001
reminds me that i have to play sabatu tomb raider one day to maybe find out what a consistently good level design Tomb raider feels like

>>724283048
>but it is some of the most interesting "puzzling" you could be doing.
I appreciate the recc but if i just wanted puzzl games id just rinse and repeat baba is you.

ive never touched magic the gathering but i can check it out one day i guess