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File: Redguard.jpg (61 KB, 637x358)
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What did the Redguards to differently compared to the Nords that led to them defeating the Thalmor?
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>>724256505
pity for negroids by the american devs
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>>724256505
curved swords
>>
we wuz sword dancers n shieet
i can't imagine they will have that in the next elder scrolls unless its something lame and gay like a slow time button
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>>724256505
They have own gods and don't share them with the Thalmor.
>>
>>724256505
The AD had an army in Hammerfell. Skyrim never suffered from that ignominy.
Hard to beat an army that can't even show up.
>>
It might be because the Great War and Treaty of Stros M'Kai are historic events as of the latest TES game (Skyrim) chronologically, whereas the Civil War—which will likely determine whether or not the Nords defeat the Thalmor in the future—is an ongoing event.
Why are you such a retard?
>>
>>724256505
They have curved swords
curved swords
>>
>>724256505
I look forward to the rhetoric about separation from the empire suddenly being good when its the negroids doing it
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>>724256505
They had three legions (If I remember correctly) help defend their desert while the other half of the thalmor army was distracted with the imperial city.
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>>724256505
Nords would curbstomp the knife ears, the problem is that empire is holding them back. Everyone realized this and left except Breton cucks and retard orcs.
>>
>>724259313
Nord's can't even beet the fucking dunmer
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>>724256505
ah, the redguards... the nortubel of skyrim races
>>
>>724259313
>nords would curbstomp
Nords couldn't even do that when their talos "god" walked the earth and controlled a god robot.
>>
>>724259680
They weakened the dwemer enough at the battle of red mountain for the dunmer to become brave enough to backstab them.
This treachery directly led to the disappearance of the dwemer and dunmers current woeful situation.

Even when Nords lose they win. One gone and one circling the drain. Not a bad payout forfor a loss.
>>
>>724257310
CURVED SWORDs
>>
>>724256505
Talos was a Breton
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>>724260231
Pretty sure he was a sload.
>>
>>724260231
Talos is chimmed up. He can be whatever he wants now.
>>
>>724260067
>One circling the drain
Kek yeah, because thats not what skyrims busy doing right now. Fucking morrowwinds in a better state.
>>
>>724257310
memes aside, this line makes no sense
Nords already have Axes that are curved and use more sophisticated methods to craft their own weapons and armour
>>
>>724260981
> The province living off of Nord largesse or providing a massive guest worker program to the Hist Lickers is doing well.
Denial ain't just a river in Egypt.
>>
By my honour I pledge to rid Tamriel of Wypeepo.
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>>724263030
As woke as Bethesda has become you will probably get your wish.
>>
>>724256652
>>724259170
Obsessed
>>
they just dropped that BBC on em knowmsayan
>>
>>724263030
WE
>>
>>724256505
Imperials left Hammerfell on their own.
>>
The next game could be cool if bethesda decides to keep a separate pantheon and bring some strange yokudan elements into it. I hope they don't try to win easy political points by equating Redguards to black people. Hopefully they can portray their culture in a much more interesting way.
>>
>>724256505
>dude, don't drink the milk it makes you a wuss
Have strong bones. Probably also not stabbing each other in the back like retards, too. As much as people love to jerk off muh nords they were really really stupid in general.
>>
>>724256505
Taqiyya.
>>
>>724256505
elven wenches were very impressed by the size of an average curved sword
altmer men are pretty modest in that regard
>>
>>724260231
Talos is three niggas in a trenchcoat, and one of them is a Breton.
>>
How are they going to call this game's Grey Beards? Surely not Black Niggers, right?
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>>724256505
I dont remember precisely but the Thalmors objectives are a bit distinct from Aldmeri as a whole.

You see, thousands of years ago, before the world began, the world was nothing but disparate spirits. But one of them, Lorkahn, tricked the others into dedicating themselves into the creation of the world. Now the Altmer resent this, because they believe they are closer related to these spirits than they are to mankind, and that mundane, corporal reality, is dragging them down.

Lorkahn is venerated amongst the Nords, but not the redguards.
You must also remember that the Altmer are still seething over being conquered by Tiber Septim, who later became Talos. He used the big ass robot numidium to ravage the summerset isles, and the strange unpredictable machine destroyed everything, but also didnt. But still is to this day.
Its a sort of quantum thing, I think its a metaphor about the Holocaust.

Anyways, thats how it is. The Thalmor are an occult group trying to destroy the fabric of reality, and they really hate Lorkahn and Tiber Septim.
>>
>>724256505
My assumption is that just like with real life desert shitholes, the Thalmer weren't really that invested and the locals were just too much of a pain in the ass to deal with. At least until they finish dealing with the empire.
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>>724264468
Big Black Caliphs
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>>724264565
Woah, I didn't know Bethesda was this antisemitic.
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>>724256505
jihad
>>
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>>724264734
>khajeets
>race of notorious thieves and scammers
What did Todd mean by this?
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>>724264979
>there's this powerful isolationist empire to the east
>its people are literally a hivemind
Bit on the nose, eh?
>>
I do not look forward to a modern Bethesda game about Redguards.
I mean - modern Bethesda haven't done a single good thing even before Skyrim, which itself is a lazy piece of shit game. 100% they won't be able to help themselves from inserting some bullshit, especially even moreso now with Microsoft attached to them.
>>
>>724265187
I think the only thing that can save Bethesda now is Skyrim 2, but they are too arrogant to see it.
>>
>>724256505
They have the biggest fleet in Tamriel so the Thalmor couldn't even reach their shores most of the time.
>>
considering bethesda's writing style in which the new writer just doesnt learn anything and makes shit up on the fly.
I will simply imagine that the nords have won and now all elves are dead. It is canon
>>
There's little to nothing about blacks in Glorantha for them to steal from so it'll be 100% american black worship brainrot.
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>>724265440
Arent the thalmore an island?
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>>724265573
no they are elves you goof troop
>>
>>724256505
>Empire not in Hammerfell
>Hamerfell kicks out the Thalmor
>Empire still in Skyrim
>Thalmor patrol random events only stop when Stormcloaks win civil war
Really makes you think.

No but jokes aside, that is the answer. They had a possibility for victory because they weren't the client state of people who have a non-aggression pact with the Dominion.
>>
>>724265630
Exactly! No MAN is an island...
>>
Thalmor got sick of having their moonstone sneakers constantly stolen.
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>>724265797
you are so fucking smart
>>
>>724263772
Well, see its funny.
Bethesda deeply regrets this but I think it's based as fuck. The original idea for the Redguards was a Black Panther-esque (both Wakandan and 1960s Panthers) style black ethnostate where finally they were the colonisers.
Of course the new lore of there being two distinct cultural groups who worship different pantheons and have political strife is also interesting.

For legal reasons, it has not been confirmed to anyone by any employees or Freelancers at Bethesda, especially not Michael Kirkbride, that the next game is taking place in hammerfell. So for legal reasons it is pure speculation. So when ES VI comes out I really hope they explore both these aspects of Redguatds.
>>
>>724265549
With chim all things are possible.
If it is Hammerfell my game will be about a Nord bearing the White Mans Burden and saving a lesser race.
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>>724256505
I know this is just racebait but I will bite anyway because there is good lore discussion.
>The Nords
You mean the Empire. The Empire had an incredibly weak Emperor. He sued for peace too soon. One of the biggest criticisms of him was that the Empire could have held out and eventually beaten the elves. The Redguards proved it.

Hammerfell had the advantage of the Aldmeri Dominion being greatly weakened during the Great War. The AD "won" the great war but it was at a great cost and they did not have enough time to replenish their losses before the Redguards rebelled against their occupation.

That is why the Empire bootlicking cucks who say "Skyrim needs the Empire to defeat the dominion!!" are retarded smoothbrains. The Redgaurds proved that the Aldmeri Dominion was too weakened to actually conquer anybody.
>>
>>724265329
It is going to be Skyrim 2. Sword singing will be shouts. The thalmor will be the Imperial equivalent(but with Nazi themes instead of roman). The redguards will be the stormcloak equivalent. There will be Nord/Imperial/Breton refugees living in migrant camps. There will 100% be dragons in the game again, even if it's not the main focus.
It's literally going to be the same game, but everything will be race swapped. Of course reactions will be different because of the race swapping.
>>
>>724266143
Why would Kirkbride have an opinion on the matter. He hasn't worked there in over two decades.
>>
>>724256505
Well, they got invaded for starters.
Can't defeat someone who never fights you.
>>
>>724266339
> I don't like the point you made so I shall argue a random one.

You do you bro.
>>
>>724266359
>It is going to be Skyrim 2.
no it's going to be avowed 2 or starfield 2

just a bunch of cringe shit with niggers, bethesda lack the talent to make even skyrim at this point
>>
>>724266036
>>724266073
Why were these posts deleted? What rules did they break?
>>
>>724266359
The information we've got is that it's taking place in hammerfell and daggerfall, I doubt the aldmeri dominion is going to be the main antagonist in both regions.
There's also a focus on fort building autism and shipbuilding too.
>>
>>724266567
What posts?
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>>724266386
He did some writing for Skyrim, the shouts, dragon tongue and Paarthurnax are his stuff. But he said he wasn't contacted by anyone from BGS about TES 6 yet, and then his long time friend Kuhlmann was fired and Kirkbride was really upset about it. He'd turn down any offer now.
>>
>>The fucking retard
Probably because they're linking to CP. Are you a fucking retard?
>>
Tell me what rule forbids quoting posts breaking the rules.
>>
>>724266701
> They are quadrupling down on having the player build the world.

They really have given up haven't they?
>>
>uhhh well akshually I should be allowed to link to child pornography
Violation of US law. You really are a downy.
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>>724266978
You are a massive faggot
>>
>>724266731
He says lots of shit. He hasn't been credited with anything since the Knights of the Nine.
Don't forget he claims credit for Morrowind getting nuked. Claiming Keyes work is not out of character for him.
>>
>>724266359
I mean literal Skytim 2, accounting for that I don't think a nigger-centered game will be well received.
>>
First of all, it's a quote, not a link. Quoting a deleted post to be exact. Even less harmful than linking a long defunct cheese pizza site.
Second of all only possession and production are illegal under US penal code.
Now what rules did those posts break?
>>
>>724267174
4chans.
>>
>>724256505
Didn't the Empire leave an entire legion of """invalids""" to help take back Hammerfel?
>>
>>724256505
Didn't they sink their island by sword-fightan too hard?
They're shit characters, but their lore is strong.
Unlike Bretons who are top tier characters but have shit lore.
...
Wait, why are the Thalmor a problem? They're fucking elves, send your convicted rapists after them as it is known that elves lose to rape everytime.
>>
>>724267282
Which ones? I certainly don't see any 4chan rules that forbid quoting posts breaking the rules.
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>>724266731
He's been involved with the design documents for the Hammerfell Project. I have two corroborating sources, one of which is a quest designer and one of which does armour textures.

Once Khuulman was asked to resign, Kirkbride pitched a tantrum and demanded they lose his work, to which he was ignored and not invited go any further Zoom sessions.
Whether they are gonna keep his work? I hear a lot of "Um, ahhh, I don't know" so I assume undecided.
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>>724267082
it will be shit on regardless of race because it will be a terrible soulless lazy game, and i hate black ppl desu
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>>724267304
No. They left some veteran "invalids" behind to assist.
Over time the number grew in the retelling. Kind of like how Torygg gets younger each retelling of his duel with Ulfric. I believe the latest version had Ulfric shouting the zygote King apart.
>>
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>>724263772
*rerorerorerorerorerorerorerorerorero*
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>>724267347
You lacking reading comprehension is not surprising.
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>>724267371
> Dude trust me.
No.
>>
>>724266143
>The original idea for the Redguards was a Black Panther-esque (both Wakandan and 1960s Panthers) style black ethnostate where finally they were the colonisers.
>Of course the new lore of there being two distinct cultural groups who worship different pantheons and have political strife
These two came about at the exact same time.

The Black Panther colonizer thing was Michael Kirkbride's idea for the Redguards, not Ted Peterson's or whoever else's. And Crowns and Forebears were introduced immediately in Adventures: Redguard, Michael Kirkbride's very first writing role where he wrote The Pocket Guide to the Empire.
>>
>>724267609
It seems that you lack reading comprehension if you're hallucinating rules that don't exist.
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>>724267516
Kek
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>>724267516
Even if it was just some veterans, they could train new soldiers
>>
>>724256652
fpbp
>>
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>>724256505
When I first heard about Sword Singing I imagined a line of Redguards throatsinging and summoning giant ghost swords that would spin through the battle field cutting atoms and causing explosions like one of those Anti-Minefield Tanks.
I was later disappointed to find out that it just means being really good at sword fighting.
>>
>>724267680
Yes. Don't trust me.
In fact for legal reasons I'm making shit up and have not spilled any secrets. For legal reasons I don't even know what a Bethesda is.
>>
>>724268008
Sure thing bro. Does your dad work at Nintendo as well?
>>
>>724256505
Actually fighting them, for one. Skyrim was never invaded, and the Nords that did partake in the great war took back the Imperial City from the knife ears when they showed up to reinforce Cyrodiil. I'm pretty sure Nords would fare about as well as the Redguards in the event of a defensive war in Skyrim.
>>
>>724267048
Paarthurnax talks about the kalpa cycles and Alduin being sent to devour the old world so that a new world can be born. That's distinctly part of his cosmology.
The thu'um, Greybeards, Alduin and Nordic deities such as Stuhn were originally mentioned in Five Songs of King Wulfharth and Varieties of Faith, books from Morrowind for which Kirkbride was properly credited.
The official Skyrim guide by Prima Games has a section about Nordic totemic religion written by Kirkbride, it explains the murals found in tombs.
What very likely happened was that he had some brainstorming sessions with Kuhlmann, who filtered and refined his ideas since the Redguard days. Kuhlmann could very easily incorporate some of his ideas and pass on various concept scribbles.
>>
>>724267914
>I imagined a line of Redguards throatsinging and summoning giant ghost swords that would spin through the battle field cutting atoms and causing explosions
But thats pretty much exactly what it is
>>
>>724267914
>When I first heard about Sword Singing I imagined a line of Redguards throatsinging and summoning giant ghost swords that would spin through the battle field cutting atoms and causing explosions
But that's what sword-singing is, though I'm pretty sure Daggerfall describes it as pleasant-sounding.
>I was later disappointed to find out that it just means being really good at sword fighting.
Lmfao where did you get this from?
>>
>>724268492
>>724268542
NOW I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO BELIEVE ANYMORE!
>>
>>724268389
Kalpic cycles are from the Hindu Vedic teachings.
Is Kirkbride claiming 4000 year old texts as his now?
That tracks actually.
>>
I caught a week ban on eso because I said "ooga booga redguard go back to yokuda"
>>
you are the swordborn
>>
>>724268693
Wokeness still isnt dead
>>
>>724266731
The worst shit about skyrim lol, why would I care?

Dragon shouts were gay and an excuse to simplify magic customization amd variance. They forced its use by puzzles and getting dragons to stop flying.
>>
>>724268693
Do they ban for n'wah posting too?
>>
>>724267325
>Bretons who are top tier characters but have shit lore.
Daggerfall has some crazy shit that was just ignored in any later games. High Rock is full of druids, niche local deity cults, daedric shrines everywhere, masonic lodges with sex parties, coomers who move into the wilderness to jerk off to nymphs, faeries, spriggans and other spirits. Many knightly orders which are tyrannical and murderous as fuck. The whole province is built on debauchery.
>>
>>724269049
I've heard people say ironic racism isn't funny but I doubt it with the n'wah stuff
>>
>>724263030
Great news, bgs hired the failguard writers. Are you ready for White guilt and quirky chungus? I cant wait for the strong black woman equivalent of Martin septim
>>
>>724263772
Aye yo you be saying we wuz mer an sheit?
>>
>>724259170
This, troons to this day still compare stormcloaks to heckin evil white supremacists or maga
>>
>>724265165
>>724264979
Thats how a lot of fantasy writing was back in the 90s and 80s. Check out the pygmies from warhammer
>>
>>724266092
Makes since to me
>>
>>724269191
In Battlespire there's a part of High Rock that was transported to Oblivion in ancient times. This area has a still-functioning hot air balloon. In Shadowkey, the only area that's located in High Rock has an ancient crash-landed airship in it.

Canon or not, I like the idea of High Rock being having prominent air transportation in the distant past, or even in the present. It would give the province a lot of much-needed flavor. Also the guy who makes a makeshift airship in Morrowind is a Breton, go figure.
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>>724269841
>being having
Bruh. Meant to say *having had.
>>
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>>724256505
>What did the Redguards to differently compared to the Nords that led to them defeating the Thalmor?

They didn't care about their credit score so the Thalmor had no power over them.
>>
>>724269312
They are loading up on self hating Whites aren't they?
>>
i like how redguards originated from different plane like warcraft orcs and settled to remote islands near hammerfell until they used some forbidden technique that destroyed their homeland then they sailed to that wack ass desert and noticed white women then rest is history
>>
>>724269450
>in the First Era the science god of black people blew up Yokuda because he was fed up with the color gang wars
>it din du shit, Hammerfell settlers divided into two new gangs right away
>Yokudan scientist Yakub ran an experimental, now lost and forgotten island
>by means of selective breeding, alchemy and a mysterious school of magic, he created the Aldmer, the ultimate weapon to destroy both crackers and the niggas who bullied him in childhood
>Yakub died before he could finish his great work
>fucking Aldmer spilled out of their island and settled on Summerset
>they forgot their origins and created a whole ancestral cult to cope
>Trinimac, Veloth, Syrabane, Phynaster and several other venerated ancestors were Yakub's vilest specimens
>Aldmer were destined to rule over Nirn for 6000 years
>to this day, the Thalmor carries out Yakub's will
>>
>>724270323
sheet
>>
>>724256505
redguards kept their edge. nords became imperialized milk drinkers.
>>
>>724266359
Its going to be a merry band of PoC leading an insurgency against thr thalmor. Except the thalmor will absolutely be representative of western ideals
>>
>>724267347
What did he quote?
>>
>>724271123
see >>724266567
>>
>>724265768
There was an entire conveniently retired Ex-Legions worth of Legionnaires in Hammerfell
>>
I feel like TESVI: Hammerfell missed the boat. If they released it closer to the 2018-2020 Black Panther George Floyd shit it could've done huge numbers. Now the American zeitgeist is tired of race baiting, black people are starting to get more self-aware and Bethesda's reputation is down the shitter because of Starfield.
>>
>>724270323
Sheeeit
>>
>>724271183
What was in the deleted post?
>>724271385
It would have worked then, now people are tired of that shit. Look at ass creed, they were working on it in 2020 and modeled their main character to look like Floyd, no way that was a coincidence. Then they released it after the masses moved right, and it bombed hard.

Hopefully they are early enough in to change direction, because if not, I think this will be the final nail.
I have a feeling the central story will have the main character working with an insurgency group of redguards attempting to throw off the "oppression" of thalmor/empire. Im afraid this will be full of White guilt
>>
>>724259170
Pretty much.
Stormcloaks le bad
Le magical jumping kalpa negros le good
>>
>>724271646
>What was in the deleted post?
How can you use 4chan without 4chanX in almost 2026?
https://arch.b4k.dev/v/thread/724256505/#724266567
>>
>>724271970
eh, i dont care 4chanx
i prefer to keep it simple and its not like I lose out on anything of real value
>>
>>724272286
That's because you don't even see how many good posts the jannies delete.
>>
>>724271646
Cheese Pizza
>>
>>724271970
Oh yeah that dumbass was posting that the other night to the catalog
>>
>>724256505
Snownigger infighting.
>>
>>724272343
r-really...?
>>
>>724272489
Well I was merely talking about the posts quoting him.
>>
>>724272343
>child porn
>says its good
Explain
>>
>>724272562
It's organic, fair-trade CP created without any suffering incurred.
Or I could be talking about other posts. We'll never know.
>>
>>724256505
Cannibalism
>>
>>724272562
It is just an anon that hates Bethesda. He usually just starts rambling about one of his myriad boogeymen to derail the thread.
He apparently has a new tactic.
>>
>>724261349
>curved axes
ngmi
>>
>>724272706
>without suffering
How can you verify that? Even if that were true, that just opens the door to a ton of other issues down the line. If you dont believe me just remember that gay marriage ran on the question:
>why do you care what two consenting adults do in the privacy of their bedroom
And now we are chopping kids dicks off and shooting them full of hormones
>>
>>724273069
Yeah I'm starting to understand why so many trolls switched their tactics to pretending to be the faggiest globohomo leftists ever.
No matter what outrageous satire you write someone will still reply in earnest.
>>
>>724269841
And the elves had skynet and mechas and shit
whats your point?
stop comparing previous kalpas to the current one
this one is akatosh's favorite for being the most interesting so just care about this one
>>
>>724273226
I don't think anon realized there is an anon that lives to derail Bethesda threads.
The CP is new. He usually just posts an infographic about one of his boogeymen and starts samefagging.

We all need a hobby I guess. If he is willing to risk jail time for his then that is on him. There are many far less risky ways to derail a thread.
>>
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Dune but high fantasy
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>>724273614
Ghey
>>
>>724260050
that is literally
what happened though
the aldmeri dominion folded in a single day
>>
>>724256505
Central monarchist rule.
>>
>>724260231
The cool part of Talos was an Atmoran warlord.
>>
>>724274721
so not a nord
>>
>>724271416
Reddit is gonna freak
>>
>>724271416
>experimental breeds of Falmer were ordered to purge snowniggers
>Yakub underestimated just how evil and bloodthirsty Atmorans were going to be
>Ayleids conducted an early test run of systemic cracker slavery with Nedes
>Nedes unsuccessfully tried to become black gods, instead their bestiality spawned minotaurs
>white demons concentrated their primordial evil energies which gave birth to Pelinal
>Ayleids fled to another cracker province and put Yakub's plans on hold
>the Chimer option was activated leading to a three-way war aimed at purging the white demons
>it got so bad that daedric princes had to intervene and subjugate Yakub's creations
>Akaviri forces led by Yasuke steamrolled Tamriel
>Yasuke personally abolished the dragon cult of Skyrim, a fact Nords erased from their history with tricknology
>the remnants of Blades still keep shrines to Yasuke under their beds
>Ayleids successfully gained control over entire Tamriel through the puppet Septim dynasty
>Mankar Camoran, a descendant of the Aldmer, received telepathic instructions from Yakub to unleash the Oblivion crisis
>Yakub crashed Baar Dau into Vvardenfell, causing Skyrim and Nibenay to be overburdened with ashskin refugees
>>
>>724274825
Atmorans are like Nords on Steroids so it's all cool.
>>
>>724274914
the nords we wuz more than the fucking dungmer
>>
>>724274959
They Wuz literally Atmorans though. It's literally the same people one just lives in Atmora and one lives in Skyrim.
>>
>>724275042
cope
COPE
>>
>>724275118
Calm down son, It's a videogame. White people aren't real.
>>
>>724275192
that makes me sad
all the nice people who make shit exist only in my fantasy world
>>
>>724256505
They're an actual warrior race. Nords were that too, but they gave up that status and therefore their prowess after rejecting magic, their tradition of Tongues, and any semblance of strategy. The most feminine Bosmer could take down the burliest Nord right now not just in a fight because the modern Nord is a fucking disgrace compared to their forefathers.
>>
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>>724267914
Bethesda is never going to be able to match the hype for Sword Singing I've developed in my head.
>>
>>724256505
black kangz won't be ruled by no one cuzz, know what I mean
>>
>>724275431
This is why I always pick the Stormcloaks despite everything, in the vain hope that they'll somehow return Skyrim to form and give us real Nords again
>>
>>724256652
this
>>
File: KhajiitAlfiq.png (921 KB, 1216x832)
921 KB
921 KB PNG
>>724275431
Should have kept fucking Khajiit. They've disgraced their ancestors.
>>
>>724273226
Its the most baity bait.
I wonder just how much of this type of shit is foriegn governments.
>>724273612
Really? I dont think ive seen him before, I usually stick to a few other boards, but then my skyrim itch came back
>>
>>724275192
They wont be soon, followed by everyone else very shortly afterward.

>>724274850
Lmao keep going ill compile all of it later and post it
>>
>>724278756
>Really?
anon... i'm pretty sure the person you're replying to is actually a schizo. he's known as rolstonfag and he's a well-known emil dicksucker. when people tell him to fuck off, he says that he's just a "boogeyman" and he pretends those people who dislike him personally are all the same person. he does this every time because he is severely autistic, now he's just saying it preemptively. lmao i wish i was kidding. he'll sperg out at me for pointing him out
>>
>>724279724
>Lmao keep going ill compile all of it later and post it
I forgot one crucial piece right after Alessia's rebellion. Can't think of much else to add.
>Yakub created the Imperial religion with 8 fake divines to make the lesser races forget about real gods who could help them in a time of need
>>
>>724280579
Kek thanks anon
>>724280314
Trolling is a art, maybe thats what he's doing? Wait who likes emils writing? I didnt think anyone did like it other than tolerate it



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