>says that orcs are evil>provides multiple examples of them being violent monsters>peacefully asks his daughter not to make contacts with them or allying with them>his daughter unironically alligns with the race that destroyed multiple human kingdoms >even when she alligns with orcs, he still doesn't want to kill her>she fucking kills her own father>later he is proven right since the same orcs destroy his daughter's city and continue killing humans, just like they did many years ago>despite that, humans STILL want to make peace with orcs since "there are some good orcs"I feel like Blizzard tried to tell something with Daelin's story
>>724267214I really don't know the details of your story, but it would be hot if the daughter got pregnant with the orc's child even after that. That is all I wanted to share.
>>724267214women can do no wrong in modern blizzard. just look at jaina and sylvanas
They can't be trusted. It's a simple message.
the only reason why the Horde still exists is because the writers for warcraft want a Antihero faction but because they are shit at writing they just end up with what you see ingame today. a hogpog of shit that makes no logical sense, like "the horde is honorable"
>>724267214It's not fair to use nu wow lore against Jaina here. Blizzard retconned the shit out of everything and were amazigly retarded handling new storylines.Also Thralls orcs would have left theramore alone if they werent provoked, and Proudmoore was not a witness to the events at the world tree or was willing to hear about it from Jaina
>>724267214BOC ( big orc cock)
>>724267214Orc'd
>>724267332Ok Chris Metzen
>>724267214Jaina killed her father because he had a cute half-elf daughter (Finall Goldensword) that was MUCH cuter than her. >Finall isn't cannon! Metzen said so!!!!!That only happened after Jaina rose to power and began manipulating everything behind the scenes. She's trying to erase Finall from existence
Reminder that Theramore broke the peace treaty with Orgrimmar first by allowing the Alliance to use them as a staging ground for aggression into Horde territory. They were a valid military target.
>>724267214https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xL0cUChDKF8
>>724267332Thrall is super gay tho
jaina died in the theramore nuke and was replaced with a dreadlord imposter
>>724267214I find it really distracting how shit the hat he wears looks. The fact that it barely even shows up on the portrait and looks like the model spazzing out is the cherry on the cake.
>>724267978Literally did nothing wrong.
>>724268439He lost, which is the worst thing you can do in a war.
>>724268439suffered from the same flaw as Hitler, he lost and became a pissbaby
>>724268439He escaped the WoW universe. Garrosh won.
>>724267214To fair to Jaina, he did roll up into the city she formed with an army and took it over.
>>724267214>>724267332Hot eroge idea.
>>724267932Finall is the key to all of this
>>724269089Yes a slow burn is what I was thinking of.
WoW is not canon.
>>724267214Daelin is my favorite character. The reason why is that, not only is he an accomplished commander and leader in his own right, but despite objectively being wrong about Thrall, he was still right according to all the things he's had to live and fight through. The orcs invaded his world, attacked his allies, his kind, his kingdom. They killed his son and he and the Alliance barely managed to save Azeroth from both the demonic Horde and Orgrim's Horde. Then he finds the orcs on another continent as Lordaeron and Quel'thalas are imploding and the Alliance is basically no more, so what else could he have thought but to instinctually just fight them? And why would he believe his young daughter than doesn't have one third of the years under her skin. In the end he was proven right on two more occasions, first with Garrosh and then with Sylvanas. The Horde's races simply can't be trusted lorewise, they're too volatile. If the orcs, tauren, trolls and ogres made the New Horde with no Forsaken and Blood Elves in it, the Horde would've made sense, but the moment the Forsaken got added it was game over for any reasonable peace because the Horde accepted walking corpses of former humans into their ranks, while taking their formerly mightiest city as their own base where they experiment on humans. BfA's intro absolutely made sense to me, I was simply hoping that the Alliance would retake Lordaeron and that the Horde would take most of Kalimdor and then just remove the undead from their ranks.
>>724268439Could anything stop a Garrosh + Arthas team?
>>724269782Finall + Garithos team
>>724269738If you need Wow lore to back up Daelin then I don't think thats a strong defense. Forsaken with the horde is not hard cannon for wc3.Daelin should have trusted his daughter. She is a hugely powerful mage that stood up to fucking archimonde and she founded the city that Daelin took by force. I don't really remember the dialogue between them but my faint memories tell me Daelin wouldnt listen to anything Jaina was saying
>List of Warcraft Characters that did nothing wrongIllidan(Human) ArthasGarithosKael'ThasMalygosDaelinGarroshYrel
>>724270431Kel'ThuzadGromLittle Timmy
>>724267214SEVEN HELLS GENN
>>724270431Justice for my boy Archimonde who played perfectly and lost due to an exploit
>>724267214*hits pipe*
Thrall was the only peaceful Orc and even he doesn't want to put up with the Hordes shit anymore.
>>724270506I dunno drinking demon blood a second time was pretty dumb.
>Pre-WOD Orcs>Harsh living peoples fucked over by their leaders to become raging green monsters>Post-WoD Orcs>They were always bloodthirsty monstersWhat the fuck was blizzard thinking? Gas the Horde
>>724270431>doomed his kingdom by blowing off Medivh and then proceeded to revengetard himself into becoming the instrument of its destruction>was both literally and figuratively a massive tool who surrendered his free will to become a glorified puppet >ceased banging Jaina to do all of the aboveArthas did literally everything wrong
>>724271198>I was just following ordersDo hordies really?
>>724270506>Little TimmyMotherfucker had it coming.Get captured once, shame on them. Get captured twice, shame on you.
>>724267214Daelin's perfect run got ruined by a f*maleShould have industrialized and established a human empire
>>724271262I don't eat pork
>>724267214Daelin assaulted Orcs and Trolls minding their own business in territory they controlled and which was half a world away from any Human kingdom after an alliance with them had literally just saved the entire world and everybody in it, creating the best chance for lasting peace in decades, and all they had to do was leave each other alone. He got what he deserved.>NOOOO YOU CAN'T KILL ME EVEN THOUGH I ATTACKED YOU FIRST!!!Imagine taking the side of the obviously vengeful retard who led his troops to their deaths in a blind rage.>b-b-but garrosh!!Yeah, he got deposed for his trouble, and later killed. Turns out when you're a warmongering idiot who cannot be reasoned with, people show up to kill you.
>>724270315Not him but common. Why would he trust anyone about how race that pillaged your lands and killed your brother are good guys? Especielly when part of them FUCKING WENT BACK TO BE SLAVES TO DEMONS AGAIN. And it's me not using WoW lore. Those savages were slaves to demons twice now. And not like he simply took it by force. He came and people were more than glad with a literal king of a great human kingdom who is also a father Jaina and came with a great fleet to help them in what is still wild and dangerous land. You don't really understand how respected Daelin was for them.
>>724271107Because he was raised by humans. The SECOND he was no longer there to tard wrangle the orcs they chimped the fuck out
>>724270553SEVEN HELLS GENN, THOSE WERE THE DAYS
>>724271429Its actually insane how racist the writing for warcraft is hahahaha
>>724270553CAREFUL JAINA, CAREFUL
>>724270553START THE DAMN EXPANSION BEFORE I PISS MESELF
>>724271173It unironically went better the second time, and he probably would have died to Cenarius if he didn't gulp the blood.Really this is medivhs fault though for sending the orcs into NE territory without fucking warning either side about eachother
>>724270553THRALL? GODS WHAT A STUPID NAME
>>724271574Are you retarded? What exactly is 'better' about being used as a meatshield against the night elves? Then afterward fighting his own people
>>724267214blizzard doing a nortubel
>>724270553GET IN HERE ARTHAS, WE'RE TELLING HORDE STORIES
>>724271361Raise the black flag on these orcs and trolls, is what I say.
>>724267214WoW Lore post wrath isnt canon, Daelin is a retard who ignored lordaeron and the scourge, and got FAFO trying to reignite a war with actors that were never part of it.>>724267978Reminder that before Blizzard RAPED the lore, Theramore and Stormwind weren't on good terms.Stormwind called the Kalimdor colonists traitors and Theramore called Stormwind Alliance dead, only the dwarves were on good terms with jaina as the nelves and horde races because of the third war.Also Stormwind was literally being mind controlled by the black dragonflight.
>>724271657It directly lead to Mannoroths death and he wouldnt have had to do it if Medivh didn't setup everybody up in the most retarded way possible
>>724270506>>724271782>>724271574I thought you were joking. Grom literally has an entire mission in the campaign where he fucks you over by being a retard and running it down mid attacking humans who did nothing to him
>>724267932Damn, so that's to be expected, he was a race traitor and so is his daughter.
>>724271262Agree. It's nonsense.Kill all Germans.
>>724271749>Also Stormwind was literally being mind controlled by the black dragonflight.Didn't a black dragon interpose herself as Anduin's mentor when he was a child?
>>724267214BNWO propaganda
>>724267214>alternate Mag'har orcs come to Azeroth>have no claim anywhere>hmm where should we set up>Durotar, with our prime universe orc brothers? nah>Feralas, the lush untamed wilderness? nah>oh I know, the Arathi Highlands, so we can go to war with the humans there!
>>724271889>got raped as a kid>Became gayTale old as time.
>>724272020Oh my fucking god, did they really make him gay?
>>724271861In gameplay terms Grom is very helpful in that mission.
>>724271889Yes, Deathwing was Lord Daval Prestor, and Onyxia continued the Fluke, she created the Defias, mindcontrolled the nobles, had Varian being kidnapped til the Azshara decided to shit in her plate by sending her naga to Alcaz to take over the island.And she was Anduin's mentor because Bolvar was also being mindcontrolled.Reginald Windsor discovered all of that and she arranged the ambush at burning steppes where he and moira were kidnapped.
>>724272004Shoulda claimed Gilneas that's free real estate.
>>724271889>"tutoring" with prime katrana prestor
>>724272069No, but him and Wrath... something being a thing is a common joke.
>>724267214His daughter got lured by BGC.Once you go green, you're never again seen.
>>724267214>I feel like Blizzard tried to tell something with Daelin's story
>>724270431>>724270506Edwin VanCleef
>>724271407As somebody else said, the state of the world after the world tree event was the best option for longterm peace there had ever been. Daelin wasnt even willing to hear about how his daughter saved the entire world by allying with thralls orcs. Daelin inserted himself into a situation he had no context for and refused to hear any context.
>>724267214>Orcs help stop the enslavement of their world to Demons >batshit Daelin comes in and demands intimidate war with the newly established Orgrimmar confederation after their landing party massacres a nearby orc camp giving Thrall zero recourse >Jaina simply does nothing with her forces and neither impedes nor opposes her father and allows the war to play out There's a pretty clear difference between what you think happened and what actually happened.
>>724268084this, of all the orc bitches, he managed to find the ugliest one to marry, wtf.
>>724272730He also starts calling himself a gay name.Seriously, Thrall went from a main character to an irrelevant NPC that no one in Azaroth cares about to love or hate.
>>724267214>Daughter realizes you were right and orcs are murderous psychos completely incompatible with her existence>Everyone calls her a Nazi and expects her to die every expansion as a result>Trie to reconcile with her family and admit she's wrong and sorry>Has visions of you as a shadowy villain that sounds like a rapist as you warn her not to trust the murderous psychopaths>She says you are wrong and your wife calls you a dickbag
>>724267214WoW made Daelin 100% right.
>>724272285>No chest hair.OUT OF HERE, NIGGA!
>>724272730>>724272940if it's any consolation she vanished into the void after Cata.
>>724272541VanCleef biggest mistake was falling for black dragon pussy and let her mind control him>>724272696The moment Daelin showed up, every man who was serving her joined him.Again, Kul Tiras gave ZERO fucks to lordaeron during the third war.Only the Dwarves, remnants of Quel'thalas and Lordaeron survivors were trying to survive.Only for Stormwind send Garithos, who already had a retarded beef over farmland with the elves and lordaeron to come and try to take the land for himself under the alliance banner, ti didnt help that many of the survivors were livid that stormwind only sent help after they were down in a ditch and the kingdom was burned into the ground.Also Garithos literally had Kael join the Burning Legion and create a Schism in his own race.it wasn't even racism, it was George McClellan Levels of incompetence and sheer greed.>>724273013Orc Murderhobos happened under Garrosh, a retard who grew on the lies of his own father and the old horde and ignored the veterans telling to his face that to never go full retard as Blackhand with Gul'Dan, and he went full retarded as Blackhand with his own Gul'Dan being Malkorok, and he even got his own Shadow Council with the Dark Shamans who were former shadowmoon orcs.Thrall's own nepotism trying to help Grom's legacy and sacrifice only tainted it even more.Grom Hellscream died for nothing.
Rememder:The orcs were enslaved not because they were innocent and misunderstood, but because they committed the world's worst atrocities, including pillage, rape, torture, corruption, mental destruction, and everything else of the worst that a sentient being can do to another.People don't just "forget" simply because some of them are good now.
>>724273414So we can take Daelin off the list >>724270431 since he didn't kill all the orcs when he had the chance. That means he DID do one thing wrong.
>>724273414>bunch of them off minding their own business>not a threat to you in any way shape or form>they're even leaving humans that are nearby alone>attack them>they kill you>somehow this is an undeserved outcomeI don't get it. Well, I guess it isn't called Warcraft for nothing, the setting would be pretty boring if anybody thought things through.
>>724273414>NOOOOO THE PAST DOESN'T MATTER... except when it matters when it's about humans, elves, dwarves, night elves... BUT NOT TO THE ORCS! THE PAST DOESN'T MATTER ONLY TO THEM!
>>724273376Garithos had nothing to do with Stormwind. He was a homegrown Lordaeronian nobility and the last high ranking one of note. His beef with the elves was that they let his family estate on the border with Quel'Thalas get scourged without lifting a finger to help
>>724271407>FUCKING WENT BACK TO BE SLAVES TO DEMONS AGAIN.But anon they HAD to drink the demon blood those elves were being such meanies and not giving them free forests
>>724273830>His beef with the elves was that they let his family estate on the border with Quel'Thalas get scourged without lifting a finger to helpIt makes even less sense that he would trust an UNDEAD elf after this
>>724274001The thing is that the Warsong clan was the most corrupted of the clans and with demonic corruption in their veins.Nelves and Cenarius felt the legion's taint in Grom and the Warsong Clan.
>>724267214What's the likelihood that was all intentional though? Pretending to play along with wokeness while making it satire seems like a good way to not get retaliated against by the woke crowd while still writing a good story, but would people get it? Soviet writers used a similar strategy of writing books criticizing America but they were actually critiques of the Soviet Union under the surface.
>>724274347Or maybe because Grom is a FUCKING RETARD that can't stop being a warmonger asshole?Remember the third mission of the Orc campaign? Where he couldn't park his ass in the base and you had to help him attack, otherwise he'd suicidally throw himself into the enemy base alone and die?
fel orcs>green orcs
>>724274624That too, but also in said mission he said that his blood was boiling again as if it was the old days once more, and all due to Mannoroth's presence in Azeroth.
>>724274001He had to do it Grom wasn't about to have retreating from an army of mostly women on his record.
>>724272672>Listen father, I know orcs killed half of human population, burned Stormwind, killed my brother but they really helped being meatshields for elves to stop demons so you need to respect them
>>724267534>Antihero factionThey were always supposed to be anti-heroes? I thought they were plain evil back in the early days.
>>724267332It's funny because you can tell at one point Blizzard might've been gearing towards it before they abandoned the idea entirely.
>>724268547Kind of hard to win when all the Alliance and the rest of the Horde that isn't on your side is fighting against you. Get the rest of the Horde to team up with him and they get to have their prime real estate wherever on Azeroth.
>>724275681Shit that's on him for pissing everyone off.
>>724270315>he should trust his daughter>she is a powerful mageShe was an errand agent for Antonidas and this is sometime after they defeated Archimonde. There was absolutely no reason why Daelin should've or would've listened to a young girl, especially knowing the history his family has with the Horde.>If you need Wow lore to back up Daelin then I don't think thats a strong defense.What else should I use but WoW lore? Especially the oldschool one? Should I use the gameplay? I mean if we're arguing about things not related to lore and to the game only, then he outclassed Jaina by a mile because his hero character was much more powerful than her's.
>>724271407You summed it up really well. Daelin Proudmoore was the second most important person in the Alliance, second only to Terenas.
Why was Garrosh even made Warchief, he had nothing to do with the new horde he was chilling in Nagrand during the founding. Was it just nepotism by Thrall?
>>724275798>Thrall assigns Garrosh to being Warchief>no one wants this, not even Garrosh>Cairne challenges him to Mok'nathal, has to accept for honor, Grimtotem poisons the axe without you knowing, Tauren are pissed off at you>Vol'jin just wants Garrosh dead even before this, Garrosh has to tell him you know he wants him dead, so now he has to try to steathily plan his death>Sylvanas is worse than the Lich King and is making more undead and dialing up the plague up to eleven>The Blood Elves don't get to do anything until MoP so who cares>Thrall assigns the worst possible candidate to be Goblin leader. This means the Goblins wants to kill GarroshIt doesn't make any sense. No wonder Garrosh took extremes.
>>724271261Ah yes, he should've trusted the raven transforming into an old dude with a cane that he meets on a crossroads while going around his kingdom trying to fight the undead. That would've totally made sense for a prince to do; hoof it away sailing to the West and a continent nobody in the Alliance ever heard of because a raven grandpa told him to.
>>724267336Kerrigan also never faces any justice
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AK4WaIO19KE
>>724270315>Forsaken with the horde is not hard cannon for wc3.And to add to this, you can't really cherry pick from the lore. I mean we can find a point past which we can treat Warcraft lore as grade A slop, I agree with that, but overall Daelin was proven right by Garrosh and later by Sylvanas too. Saurfang didn't mind fighting night elves in their ancestral lands and killing them left and right until they got to the firewood called Teldrasil.
>>724272069nah he's just effeminate and submissive.just like Onyxia groomed him to be.
>>724273414I was kind of amazed how they weren't just summarily executed, which would've still been a fitting and just end.
>>724272069>>724272265>>724276479Anduin is clearly zesty with that black dragon jeet.
>>724267214You are about 20 years too late to this argument lil' bro
>>724273376>Again, Kul Tiras gave ZERO fucks to lordaeron during the third war.That is not correct. They searched Lordaeron and saw it fell into complete chaos, so they naturally couldn't do anything. There's some quest texts and dialogue pointing to this. That's where the Kul Tirans first looked for Jaina and it was explained that Daelin despaired for her, but then found out she sailed West.
>>724267214You have no idea how bad it's gotten.
>>724272696Truth is that Daelin would've won if Jaina didn't betray him, not to mention if he stood by him. She never, ever stood by the men that were most important in her life, from Arthas to her father.
>>724267214The mana bomb that destroyed Theramore Island wasn't the because of the orcs you tard and Garrosh was pissed about it happening same as he was pissed about the the Night Elves being slaughtered in Ashenvale.
>>724276737
>>724276737This is atrocious. You can tell the story department is full of retards who conflate the Light with religious zealotry and are trying to send a message how it is bad or something because of real life [insert something something]. Or it's just retarded millennials with blue hair and different genders.
>>724276854This only makes sense though, wasn't this nigga tortured under the Garrosh regime?
>>724276737total takeover
>>724268772Not only that, he left on his own terms.
>>724277109>le jewsjews made the company in 1995 you absolute retardgod I fucking hate you morons
>>724276556he is pretty zesty but I don't think he's full blown gay. I know HotS is dubious canon-wise but he's clearly horny for Nova from starcraft. Gets all nervous and stammery.
>>724267336>in modern blizzard.
>We never got Punished Jaina massacring the HordeI'm still mad.
>>724267214>I feel like Blizzard tried to tell something with Daelin's story"Control your writers room, don't make the same mistakes we did"
>>724277357He also was infatuated with a female Draenei in one of the novels. But I could picture modern Blizzard just turning him into a fag or saying the black Paladin girl should be the real leader of the Alliance.
>>724277357a lot of people wont admit it but hots was the last good thing blizzard made.
Was it any good?
>>724277228just because 1 guy was a decent jew doesn't mean the others that control everything now are, you stupid faggot while mike was at the helm, warcraft basically never had any browns, at all
>>724277616That one scene of her and Thrall together where she touches his bicep for too long sort of cemented her character. Also it's really fucking funny how she's treated in Legion>don't let the Horde into Dalaran, I'm going to teleport away and scream>that was weird. Anyways, champion...
>>724277856The video itself is good. The story in game? lollmao
>>724268026>wc3 dota>fraps watermark>bring me to life>5 fps>uploaded 15 years agoSOVL OVERLOAD
>>724278040Take me back dotards...
>>724277856The video was awesome. It was such a callback to W3 for me, I loved it.
>>724267214A human literally opened the Dark Portal, allowing orcs onto the planets. Humans are evil too, perhaps even more so.
>>724267214just like real life but orcs are niggers
>>724279294posessed by literally satan, you forgot that part, you disingenous beastman kneeler
>>724278040wc3 dota was soulless turd worlder shit tho
Orcs are jomons in warcraft, not niggers though.
>>724267214wow...so orcs are muslims then
>>724280079Jomons are related to niggers
>>724278040For me it's>ssman xboy>3 subscribersGod I miss actually getting to see shit not pushed by some fucking cyberjew's faggot algorithm
>>724267214It ain't easy being 'green' Read: nigger
>>724277937Mike Morhaine became a huge faggot after WoW became a quick success, there is even stories of him harassing interns and new people to NOT speak with him at all and even have security on them, at the fucking campus.The retards at blizzard weren't ready for the success they had, they never had struggles as bethesda did.They don't even trust on their most loyal old fanbase who gives a fuck about the lore, they mock them like the slimeballs they are, at least todd has UESP and the community to remember them of the lore and other shit to keep tabs of it as archivists and loremasters, Blizzard openly mocked their own community and fanbase and told them to eat shit back in TBC, and they all ate it.>>724276951Is retarded millenials aka barneyfags using it as a reference to "urhhh Christ and religion is le bad, philosophies about our asshole and how gaysex is good for centaurs is feedom u religious bigot" as the mentally ill parentless sickfucks those cuntlifornians are.
RELEVANThttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DghGagr3udA
>>724280079orcs are niggers, nagrand is a savanah, they are brown and live in mudhuts
>>724281775I prefer a heroic and competent racist like Daelin Proudmoore to a caricature joke character like Garithos. Even if he's funny, it doesn't make for a good story
>>724267214>Fucks off after the 2nd war never to be seen again>Does nothing to help Lordaeron during the plague>Turns up out of nowhere to mooch off his daughters' wealth>Starts a fight with the orcs who helped save the world>Gets his ass beat by a half ogre >Orcs are magnanimous in victory and leave the rest of his army in peace and shame them allWhy is /pol/(Ivan) trying so hard to psyop about wc3 right now?
>>724276178>Garrosh: YOU MADE ME WHAT I AM!>Thrall: Nuh-uh
>>724281857WE RACISTS NEED TO STICK TOGETHER
>>724267534when and what would have destroyed the horde?The closest I can think of offhand is during the siege of orgrimmar, but if the alliance decided to become aggressive at any point beyond the end it would been extremely messy, costly, and exhausting, and at best would have been a pyrrhic victory.
>>724277062He was made into a max level elite after being a lv1 retard anyone could stab and mug when Thrall was king
>>724272171I will never not be upset they turned the moira plotline into some stereotypical story about a racist dad/grandpa not accepting his daughters mixed child.It's such a terrible fucking idea for so many reasons.
>>724271361The Horde also attacked the alliance In icecrown btw
>>724283421>>724281857
>>724267214What I find funny is how when she regrets it and tells the story again she tries to paint Rexxar as a monster who took glee in butchering her father as if he was a Warhammer Ork and not Horde Batman.
Jaina was right at the time of WC3. her dad was a cunt but justifiably so, but the shitty thing is WoW writers retroactively made her dad correct cunt because they can't right for shit.
>>724277856The video brought more entertainment than the expansion>Azerite lmao
>>724284137This.
>>724284137Exactly, and you can blame Metzen and the other retards for giving too much power to fucking Tom Chilton.
>>724267214its wrong to deny your daughter green meat
>>724267534If it wasn't for the fact that WoW allowed people to play as Orcs and they've established their identity around the faction, I'd have loved to have seen an alternate universe where Orcs were rehabilitated after the Dark Portal incident, served as valued citizens and soldiers in the alliance, and were sent to war to civilize their cousins beyond the dark portal.
>>724267214>FUCK YOU DADDY!Realistically, how do you respond and deal with this?
>>724288828Welp, okay..*surprise sex*
>>724267214N
>Wow is released>Three factions instead of two>Any race can be part of any faction, though alliance is primarily human/dwarf/gnome and horde is mostly orc/trollWhat would the third faction be?
>>724267534The funny part is that aside from Tauren and the varaious shades of elf/furry, your average Horde player does not give one fuck or actively plays into the idea they are meant to be the bad guy faction. Garrosh was loved, and Salvanas was hated not because she was committing warcrimes, but because she was cringe.
>>724284137lmao imagine thinking an alien race that willingly drank the blood of a pit lord isn't going to fuck with you, if it doesn't look like a human you can't trust it
>>724271361>after an alliance with them had literally just saved the entire world and everybody in it,After of course destroying the whole world.A world without orcs would easily be enough to stop the burning legion by themselves.
>>724291614Zerg invaders as teased by WC3 campaign
>>724267214Ironically keeping him alive would've been better for the plot. Anit horde.
>>724267214This guy was badass, he had like the highest damage ever. It wasn't chaos damage but it was still super high
>>724291614Scourge/forsaken, probably, and maybe blood elves if they tried to keep some of the TBC lore where Sylv was basically strongarming them into joining the horde.
>>724291835>garrosh was lovedafter the fact. a lot of people hated how retardedly aggressive to his own detriment for a long time. He became revered after his death for a variety of reasons, and in some ways he became a symbol for old-ish wow as wow turned into being a friendship is magic marvel fantasy MMO with shit villains like J'lor.
>>724283441The horde should not exist after the siege of orgrimmar.>but if the alliance decided to become aggressive at any point beyond the end it would been extremely messy, costly, and exhausting, and at best would have been a pyrrhic victory.What sort of drugs are you on anon? The horde only continues existing because Blizzard protects them with copious amounts of plot armor.
>>724288828At that point it's too late. The seal is broken and the cockthirsty demon spawn has fully taken her mind.In that case you have to go with the Stratholm solution.
>>724295756Yes, attacking the fortified capital of the undead whom we know for a fact possesses chemical weapons and isn't shy about using them is a fantastic idea.
Its funny how the Alliance ended up being proven right. Every major calamity is related to orc or Horde shenanigans.
>>724297232Literally a better idea than what was done for all the reasons stated, retard>Nooo people might die so you should never go to war
>>724297676It doesn't happen because the faction system has to be held in stasis for the game to work
>>724267214>The Orcs may have kept Varian Wryn hostage as a gladiator for years but you're a fucking bigot for judging all orcs based on the actions of a few
Alliance is just globohomo that doesn't even differentiate between human races.
>>724267336Unless they are comically ugly -in a old Disney fashion-. Like the fat lady from Kul Tiras.
>>724297747It was meant to mirror Thrall's origin story, I think.
https://youtu.be/Jtnz9v4HWi8?si=zmQOahpv-ofPrzmz&t=3925
>>724291894>imagine thinking an alien race that willingly drank the blood of a pit lord isn't going to fuck with youThe entire plot of the orc campaign was that Thralls faction didn't do it. Grom's faction was the retarded part of the orcs.>Oh hey, here's a fountain that reeks with demon shit, let's drink that lmao.>What do you mean we're enslaved to the demons again, we're supposed to be free ;(And then green orcs ALLIED WITH HUMANS to genocide the red orcs. There were 0 problems at that point, until Daelin rolled in, unaware of the fact that his daughter literally saved the entire planet, when he was sailing around chasing orcs for no reason instead of helping Lordaeron.
>Be Alliancefag>Think Garrosh is the best Warchief
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Nb3q1oROOgHell yeah
reminder that wow humans are actually the mutt children of retarded larpagan giants whose only contribution to civilization was raiding and pillagingbut it's bad when orcs do it
>>724299360Even vikangz figured out agriculture
>>724270431Billy Maclure
>>724299360vikings were intelligent, contrary to the belief.
>>724299708by the way, orcs are NOT fucking vikings. Horned helmets mean nothing
>>724297348I'd argue elves are just as guilty, if not more so. both night elves and blood elves have been catalysts for drawing the legion to azeroth, and now the void. other than garrosh, the orcs were mostly just pawns, while elves were instigators.
>>724299708>raping and pillaging is okay when we do it because...because it just is ok???
Grom: Thrall! I've got to go with you!Thrall: And where would I lead you, old man? Destiny is at hand! Lord Mannoroth is your master now.Grom: I know him, you're talking sense!Thrall: Ah, Grom. You always believed that the demons corrupted our race, but that's only half true. You gave yourselves up willingly on Draenor! The other chieftains and you... they drank Mannoroth's blood, Grom. You brought this curse upon yourselves!Grom: I did this... to our people... knowingly? Arrrgghh
>>724298693>And then green orcs ALLIED WITH HUMANS to genocide the red orcsBased. Next IRL version of this when?
>>724298267that's logical from a 'storytelling in a two-faction game' sense.
>>724299792Someone pointed out that the WC3 -> WoW making nelves do a 180 degree flip on their foreign policy, actually kind of makes sense.The spent 10 000 years in isolation and what do they have to show for it? They had no idea that an off-shoot of their race spread arcane magic to a different continent and summoned Legion, until AFTER their red orc servants had ALREADY killed Cenarius.
>>724299837yes, niggers and muslims rape and pillage but add nothing else to it
>>724297708Perhaps if you need a perpetual faction system to stay in stasis you should write it so that one faction doesnt have to get saved by another faction twice(?)
>>724291835they could have done so much more with that in the both story and gameplayhorde faction splintersone side as the muh misunderstood noble happy colored sunshine and rainbow friends >can group with Alliance or be killed by Alliancethe other side, which players can join, as the evil faction filled with cruel shitskin savages whose goals are to rape and pillage>can be killed by all other factions but can group with NPCs like Elites and bossesimagine having wpvp battles that influence the fate of the world. imagine the player agency. being the evil faggots that permanently wipe out quest hubs and safe zones. stopping the evil players who try to usher in the apocalypse. imagine an imagination where you can imagine a scenario containing a blizzard that isn't full of niggers and faggots
Elves were made for BGC. Nobbel will make a video of the lore surrounding that fact soon.
>>724299840Kek
>>724299962Tangent: Western Bloc has saved Russia at least twice.First time is pretty indisputable: WW2 lend-lease and Western Front.Second one is bit more debatable: after the Cold War, a "natural" path would've been for Russia to as their de facto Eurasian colonies would seek independence. US and Europe propped them up, mostly out of consideration for all the Soviet nukes falling into the wrong hands if Russia became Yugoslavia 2.0
>>724299920>spend 10k years in isolation>just chilling and sleeping all day>get woken up by foreigners>suddenly can't sit down for 5 fucking minutes because of their stupid self caused problems>lose your immortality>every other week a new big bad appears out of nowhere to bring doom and chaos to your worldStupid hippie liberal elves. Should have built an arcane wall around Kalimdor.
>>724299962Yeah, the faction system was a mistake, the game would have worked better if players were adventurers who could affiliate at will and the various races worked like they did in WC3
>>724276241He was the motherfucking guardian of tirisfal, the area right at the front doorstep of his castle. If they had of turned around and said 'hey we don't trust you because of the stormwind thing' it would have made sense but the royalty of the northern kingdoms 100% knew about the guardians.
>>724300106Do people try to argue Russia is the equal of the entire western bloc? China maybe could try that claim but Russia?
>>724267214Humans did betray Thrall orcs though
>>724295359In Cata he was reasonably well written, being an expansionist, but still honorable. Only in MoP he started being portrayed as an absolute retard.
The Horde tolerating the Forsaken never made sense to me. They are all honorfags and hippies but the Forsaken have repeatedly shown themselves to be utterly dishonorable, even with their own "allies" and have ruined countless entire lands with their bullshit. Tauren with their reverence for Nature and all that would stomp them back into their graves for some of the shit they've done to the land for example.
>>724299956what did vikings add to the cities they raided?
Would anything ever happen on Azeroth if Orcniggers never arrived?
>>724300295Wouldn't that requires him to reveal his identity as Medivh, the guy who opened the Dark Portal in the first place?
>>724295756>>724297676This is idiotic. Attacking Orgrimmar was the right decision, Undercity is worthless blighted land. Garrosh was also experimenting with the elves and destroyed Theramore. The true poor decision was letting the horde survive after Garrosh consumed the heart of an old god. They should have purged the city and murdered Garrosh on the spot then unified the continent under the night elves.
>>724300501The faction system was a total mistake because it required goofy writing like that to make it work, and it was primarily pushed by a single guy during development as I recall.
>>724300768Except it was obvious he was medivh, he even rocks up to Antonidas and says he is the Guardian. They both just go 'damn this weird bird nigga who is the only guy who can turn into a crow is insane'. Though Blizzard's lore is obsessed with going insane so it was probably their wisdom that led them there.
>>724301074I thought they were going for three factions and it got cut. They cut so much shit out of the early development that was properly good then just said 'no we need to mainstream this shit hard'. I think pvp almost got cut at one stage.
>>724291835>your average Horde player does not give one fuck or actively plays into the idea they are meant to be the bad guy factionAbsolutely delusional. The Horde quickly become the cool faction because women and fags wanted to play Nightelves or Humans. So people very consciously picked the evil ugly faction to get away from them. Back in the day the Horde basically never lost a battleground because all the Alliance players were keyboard turning.
>>724301179Incredible it became as popular as it did despite it all
reminder
>>724301456>(You're welcome Alliance)LMAO
>>724267332Stop hornyposting
>>724267332BBC cuck ameirshart mind
>>724301963european posting hours
>>724302590>23:15 CET>euro hours
Perhaps he should have learned to be a better man like Danath Trollfriend.
>>724302889>no european ever stays up late. all shitposting is done by americans.
>>724301074>it was primarily pushed by a single guy during development as I recall.Of fucking course. It's still that way today. You can't have cross-faction dungeon finder because the larpers working there sperg out>I DO NOT CONSENT TO PLAYING WITH HUMANS REEEEThe faction divide is baffingly stupid. The more you think about it the more insane it is that they decided to make the game like that and have stuck with it for 20 years.
>>724303419They do. Doesn't mean it's euro hours.
>>724300016always wished we'd gotten a neutral team, mix of gobs tauren pandas, nelfs and undead that remember their past life and aren't total race traitors be default, plus odds and ends of every race.think an odd combo of mercenaries, pacifists, and people like jaina and thrall who want to try and link the sides.then you can make the horde full of murder hobo tribals like centaurs, ogres and either gnolls, you do warmongering between factions of each, like in that one zone in classic, make the clans the strongest, and bring together a huge warband like rexxar in WC3, then go on raids into the alliance lands, murdering villagers and steeling their animals and resources.Make the alliance full of racists and extremists, scarlet crusade are just a faction you can quest for, entire zones where you just murder orc babies to "keep them from outbreeding the weaker tribals", a questline where you raise garathos from the dead because he has inside info about what those filthy undead did to Lordaeron, and if you bring that information to the neutrals you can demand they assist in purging the forsaken from their ranks, despite garathos now BEING a forsaken, and having helped them fuck over Lordaeron.i want the horde the be ignorant savages, the alliance to be braindead PTSD zealots, and for all the reasonable people to have fled both sides and only exist to push the story along by teaming up with both for the greater good, and every time getting fucked over in the end for not picking a side
>>724303419We don't. We all collectively love our sleepy time.
>>724275365Undead? Yes. Orcs (including Trolls, Tauren, etc) absolutely not.
Orcs always win thanks to their charisma (bgc)
>>724291614Your options are probably Illidari (blood elves, draenei, naga), Kal'dorei (night elves, furbolg, dryads/keepers), or Forsaken (various stripes of undead).
I heard that the story of this game is a parody of itself now and all the male characters are either dead, hilariously incompetent, or outright subservient to the women.
>>724300501Pretty much 100% of the reason why the Forsaken got into the Horde is because Magatha got into cahoots with the apothecaries and saw some kind of benefit to her clan from their whole "death to the living" routine, while spinning everything into a "no they're just trying to find a cure for undeath!" narrative to get the hippie-est taurens on board and the rest of the horde to tolerate them. The entire alliance all kind of depends on the rest of the Horde not really knowing exactly what the Forsaken are actually up to, and there are plenty of quests about this throughout vanilla, some of which are even race-locked because they amount to flat out spying on the Forsaken or the Forsaken covering something up.Things only got stupid once the Forsaken went mask off during WotLK and they pretty much didn't do anything about it except replace some NPCs in UC with Orcs, and it just kept getting dumber from there.
>>724304531Full of furfaggotry too
>>724300501There is a ton of contrived and stupid writing early on in WoW. It gets way worse later, but the entire roster of the Horde is a little insane. The Forsaken and blood elves have no business joining them or being involved with them at all. Orcs, trolls, and tauren shouldn't put up with any of their shit, and vice-versa. It's also just a spit in the face to WC3 because the blood elves were already part of the Illidari, but the writers decided to make the Illidari villains, I guess. But the writers openly admitted to the blood elf thing being a total contrivance to push more Asians to play Horde.But the retcon to add tauren druids winds up making the tauren look like fucking retards, honestly. They've apparently been friends with the night elves for thousands of years (long enough to have druidic traditions in the night elven Cenarion Circle, which implies they were given the gift by Cenarius), but don't fucking warn the orcs about the night elves in Ashenvale. And then they stick with the orcs after those fucking retards kill Cenarius. And then they DO SUCH A PISSPOOR JOB at negotiating peace between their two friends after Hyjal that the orcs are now committing environmental war crimes on the Ashenvale forest that's held sacred by all druids, and the tauren (who have druidic religious traditions) just don't give a single fuck about it and help them do it. The tauren come across as insane traitors that just fucked over the night elves for no reason.It's obviously just all born of contrived writing to force the faction conflict, but it shows how having to stick to that rigid formula and force it into place has made basically every Horde race seem like total fucking dumbasses at one point or another. The tauren look like fucking idiots because they just placidly put up with their faction's insane bullshit. And that's not even getting into Cata and beyond.
>>724304531Yes except it went full circle with the female hero turned villains being so nonsensical proves the old chuddie villains right.Garrosh was the most liked because he is for the most part consistant in a world where everything else is rectroactively turnes for out of touch virtue activism
>>724304531>I heard that the story of this game is a parody of itselfWoW has always been like that. You could even see the cracks in Wc3:tft (Sylvanas the yaaas queen slay, malfurion/tyrande/illidan retardation, Orc campaign being about Horde being cool monsters teaming along vs da nazi human dad)
>warcraft lore after wc3
>>724304531Thrall is basically a background character. Anduin, Varian's kid, is onions incarnate and has no agency except what the female characters offer him. Lorthemar is probably the only male leader left that still does anything and even he plays second fiddle to fucking Liadrin these days.
>>724304891Jesus I never thought about the Tauren shit in that light but you're right. They do look absolutely insane and retarded.
>>724304891I thought that tauren didn't become druids until after Wc3, partly as a result of the horde and ne allying for the defense of the world tree.
>>724304895Speaking of Garrosh, there's a quest in the Midnight Alpha that sends you to piss on his grave pretty much. They honestly cannot stand that people still like the character.They are also turning Turalyon into an insane rage beast as well as Lor'themar to a lesser extent. All strong males will be eliminated eventually.
>>724267332fpbpAdequate amount of respect blizzshit stories deserve
>>724304531
>>724305315
>>724304531The Horde is basically out. It's an alliance game now. You help Anduin and the one armed gorilla paladin fight spiders with friendship and pronouns no matter what faction you are. Undermine was a single patch goblin zone, but completely neutralBFA was shitty, but the factions were still split. Different quests, different warfronts, different story. Faction felt like it mattered at least a little. I imagine someone who just started in Shadowlands (horrid), Dragonflight or War Within doesn't really have a concept of what the Horde is. There is zero difference in the stories of those expansions from a faction perspective.They're completely out of narrative and they literally did not know what to do after Afrasiabi decided that Teldrassil burns down because they shot at it with a catapult FROM DARKSHORE.
>>724267332FPBP
Look man i just want to fuck Pandarens.
>>724305492BFA was the first expansion with split stories since vanilla. In TBC half the zones were about druids or aldor/scryer shit, in WotLK, Cata, MoP and WoD only the starting zone were different, and in Legion factions didn't matter at all.
>>724305492>Muh red vs blue teamkys mmo troon
>>724267214no way Kunkka say shit like that fag
>>724306414I guess in MoP patch content was slightly different for aliance and horde
>>724270506>Little Timmysomeone post the lore dump meme
>>724270431>YrelIsn't that the psycho goat bitch who got brainwashed by Light demons in alternate future Draenor?
>>724305315retail wow is written by women for women and it reeks like cat shit
>>724267214>>later he is proven right since the same orcs destroy his daughter's city and continue killing humans, just like they did many years agoBut it's specifically not the same Orcs. It's an Orc raised entirely separately from the Orcs on Azeroth.Like that's one if the big splits between Thrall and Garrosh; Thrall was raised on Azeroth while Garrosh was raised on Draenor. Garrosh doesn't care aboht Azeroth or the people there because it's literally not his planet, and all the other Horde leaders completely disrespected him so he never grew to respect them.
>>724307749He used the Orcs from Durator to achieve his goal. They follow his orders. Then even slaughtered and tortured refugees from Theramore inside Orgrimmar for fun.
>>724309093>Then even slaughtered and tortured refugees from Theramore inside Orgrimmar for funMay I see it?
>>724267214The entirety of Warcrafts story is just failed reddit libtard argument techniques. Not all X are like that, I have black friends too, Jesus is just as bad as Satan, etc..
>>724267332get off /v/, Metzen
>>724269782Yeah, an obese female writing team.
>>724271749WoW after WotLK is a walking corpse.
>>724307625>brainwashed by Light demonsonce they started pulling the "good is also evil" shit in legion I completely checked out on this game's lore
>>724299360Jewish fingered typed this post.
>>724299360>>724299837>Christians conquering pagan villages, slaughtering their priests and burning their sacred grovesHaha get fucked>Christians when their monasteries full of stolen gold and wealth extorted from their forced converts get hit back by the sons of odinNOOOOOO THIS IS LIKE WHAT NIGGERS DO (that we also brought in to your countries and supported because it was the christian thing to do)
