Any game similar to Stronghold where you build your castle AND defend it?
>>724272645what the fuck happened in 1535
>>724272783Cannon. Now, can you answer my question?
>>724272645YeaIt's called Castles and it was released in 1990 or somethingAlso SiegeAnd Castles 2 and Siege 2Do your own research from there
>>724272960Castle and Siege. Thanks.
>>724272783they got sued by disney
>>724272783Same reason trump tore down the white house, to build a child sex dungeonNow someone post the PDF to that incredible cross section for castles if we're really doing this.
>>724272645what if you just surrounded the castle and stop them from getting food?
>>724273292Damn why didn't anyone think of this back then??
>>724272645That game that just left early access.
>>724273292That's called a siege and normally a castle has enough supplies stockpiled to hold out for a long time and they also have internal water supplies so it's a lot harder to just try to starve out an enemy. Also, for youhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege
>>724272645Haven't played it yet, but Cataclismo
>>724272645This has been on my radar for a while. Might be what you're looking forhttps://store.steampowered.com/app/2086680/Castle_Craft/
>>724273979This? >>724274306>>724274532>EAWill keep an eye on it.
>>724274694Nah, Becastled.
1215 is the most kino year and if you disagree you're a fag.
>>724273292What if they have more food than you?
>>724275001you pray that your noble friends will come to help you before that happens
>>724274797>recent reviews: mixedWhat's wrong with it?
>>724273245this one?
>>724273292Like anon said, they did, and it's called a siege.As a general rule period-appropriate strong fortifications are unassailable. That is, fortifications provide such a high degree of defender's advantage you need something in the order of tenfold (or more) advantage in manpower in order to take them quickly (with ladders and such), and it's generally difficult to convince the first 900 of your guys to die to take out the hundred defenders. So you do stop them from getting food.The problem is, if you ever stood any realistic chance of taking the site anyway, your soldiers need at least ten times as much food (and pay and other supplies), and before railroads there's a logistical problem for land transport: everything (mules, oxen, humans) that can transport food also eat food, and so there's a finite distance from which an army can be supplied: there's a decent chance your guys starve first, especially if the fortification (or fortified city) is built adjacent to waterways you don't necessarily control and from which it can be supplied, or if the perimeter is too long to be strongly manned all the way: the fortification may have multiple gates and a supply run may be able to punch through by having local superiority.
>>724273292>>724276163So usually you can't starve the defenders, and need to employ some siege tactics. There generally are ways to take fortified sites that don't involve suicidal assault or starving the defenders that high state capacity societies can employ. But these tend to be *EXTREMELY* labour-intensive (and so, expensive), typically equating to building something bigger and better than the original fortifications. Romans and Assyrians for example generally favoured building a covered siege ramp so they could just walk on top of the walls. Alexander III of Macedon constructed a kilometer long mole to attack island fortress of Tyros. Often sieges also involved building a "circumvallation" (so the defenders couldn't sally out, protecting your camp and siegeworks under construction) and "contravallation" (to prevent reinforcements). A bit of geometry shows these necessarily have to have greater perimeter than the walls originally being sieged. Curiously, the lack of state capacity following the fall of Western Roman Empire is related to decentralization during the European Middle-Ages: if had the resources to construct a castle like in OPs 980 example, nobody could really tell you what to do, since nobody could muster the manpower required for these sort of construction projects.
>>724272783Bombards becoming mainstream. Tall castles get fucked up way too easily from gunpowder so you gotta build them lower.
>>724275665>the mod in Oblivion where you could have a private castle looking over the sea just out from Anvil and the Colovian HighlandsPeak comfy
>>724275665Same guy, but it was an entire book
>>724278976Are there castles in Mongolia?
>>724273292thats a violation of human rights, the icc would issue a warrant for your arrest and everyone would call you a genocider
>>724281515>Geneva Suggestions
>>724276163>a bear trap for autismI think everyone understands what a siege is here
>>724272783>what the fuck happened in 1535Guns. Cannons. The old circular thick walls would get demolished by cannon fire, but the pointed pentagon-pentacle-shaped fortresses had a chance to deflect or dissipate the kinetic force of cannon fire. Putting corners in a castle wall also decreased blind spots/spots where an invading guy could hug the wall and not get a rock or boiling oil thrown onto him. *I don't know if this is completely true, but most "old" ranged weapons (crossbows, firearms, bows, slings) also couldn't actually fire directly below, they had to fire at an angle or the munition would fall out of the bowstring/barrel. So having slanted paralleled walls circumvented this issue. >>724273292>what if you just surrounded the castle and stop them from getting food?Then it becomes a battle between who has the larger food stock: the people in the keep or the people invading. This isn't a "slam dunk" strategy though as the invader has two massive penalties: they have to rely on long, vulnerable, supply lines to keep the men fed and in position and a siege is a lengthy time consuming process and who knows what will happen in 3-4 months.
>>724272783They realized that it was stupid to live inside a stone hut and actually started building homes.
>>724282645>they have to rely on long, vulnerable, supply lines to keep the men fedwhy wouldn't they just forage from the land around them? also there were often villages and farmland nearby castles so the peasants could flee to the castle for safety if an invading army came along. so they could just pillage those places, or if it's going to be a very long siege actually work the fields themselves to produce food for their army.
>>724276476>There generally are ways to take fortified sites that don't involve suicidal assault or starving the defenders that high state capacity societies can employ. But these tend to be *EXTREMELY* labour-intensive (and so, expensive), typically equating to building something bigger and better than the original fortifications. Romans and Assyrians for example generally favoured building a covered siege ramp so they could just walk on top of the walls. Alexander III of Macedon constructed a kilometer long mole to attack island fortress of Tyros.And then there is the War Wolf way.
>>724272645It's called Cataclismo (they just threw Italian words into the story and called it magic).It isn't very good, but you do construct castles and little towns brick-by-brick and then defend it against a horde of braindead zombie blobs.Levels range from fuck-huge zombie blenders to small puzzle maps. This is more of a puzzle map, trying to fit in a barracks and enough houses to keep it stocked.
>>724272645>that one time someone built a massive fuck off trebuchet during a siege>took 3 months, 5 engineers and 49 labourers to make>the guys in the castle saw how comically huge it was getting and gave up>attackers accepted the surrender>on the condition they get to use their trebuchet anyways>’sent a single stone through two of the castle's walls, "like an arrow flying through cloth"’
>>724281181More like Border Forts built by Chinese engineers during the Yuan Dynasty
>>724283435>why wouldn't they just forage from the land around them?>so they could just pillage those placesThey did. They were. They were part of the "large vulnerable supply chain". They wouldn't last and were almost immediately consumed though. The caloric demands of a besieging army were often quadruple the amount of the area they were immediately besieging, as mentioned by that other Anon saying you need *at least* x4 the men to besiege a place. >or if it's going to be a very long siege actually work the fields themselves to produce food for their army.Not even remotely practical. What you've just described is typically referred to as "*absenteeism": men that are farming aren't fighting. You also need to think about the demoralizing aspects of telling the boys they're going to be here so fucking long that they should pick up hoes and start planting crops. FURTHERMORE, time is a resource into itself: the longer a siege goes on for the more expensive it becomes and the less valuable the victory. Men fighting are away from their homes, not paying taxes, demanding wages, the defenders consume their stocks, treasure, etc.. If you're there for like a year there's a chance you crack the egg and there's fucking nothing inside. A total waste. *The best example of this I can name is the Japanese positioned in Paupau New Guinea completely stopped receiving supplies/rations after the American Naval Blockade, so they began to farm. They were positioned there for almost a decade and after the first couple years of radio silence they ended up converting most military infrastructure to service their agrarian commune. The Americans stopped bombing them because they thought they were locals.
>>724272645>From SOVL to soullessMan guns really did make everything gay
>>724272783Gunpowder. A tall castle that juts high above the surrounding wall is practically begging to get torn down like an Angry Birds level. It's not too bad, hundreds of years of architectural engineering made it so mansions are both easier to maintain and superior in getting the various facilities up and running compared to castles.
>>724282645>I don't know if this is completely true, but most "old" ranged weapons (crossbows, firearms, bows, slings) also couldn't actually fire directly below, they had to fire at an angle or the munition would fall out of the bowstring/barrel. So having slanted paralleled walls circumvented this issueBows have trouble aiming directly down, because of the obvious biomechanical disadvantages and angles, but not crossbows. The bolts are held firmly in place. But also stones, boiling pitch, javelins, darts, hurlbats, etc don't have any issue being thrown directly downwards. Early firearms also did not have this issue, if for nothing else that the wadding held the powder and ball in place if there was any issue with the size of the ball, which sat very snugly in the barrel.
>>724272645Going Medieval but it's also a village sim
>>724283435"Just eat as you go" had already long since stopped being a thing even before Sun Tzu's time.
>>724282645>I don't know if this is completely trueIt's obviously not true for bows because you can pinch the arrow to hold it in place.As another anon says, wadding in older guns would seal in the gunpowder but also the bullet/ball/shot was by nature jammed into the barrel to be slightly tight- a tight seal is needed to resist the pressure of the initial stage of the powder burning, until it's burnt enough, produced enough gas and therefore enough pressure to launch the bullet at a good velocity.I actually don't know how they stopped quarrels falling out of crossbows pointed down.
>>724275665I own all these Usborne books. Castles, Vikings, Medieval life.
>>724285348not so. star forts are built for canons and are very cool
Man I loved stronghold 2, shame 3 was so god awfulI wish something scratched the same itch. There's something so kino about making a castle town, watching villages go from hovels to orchards and pastures. Nothing has ever really come close to it for me sadly
>>724291913What about Stronghold Crusader 2?
>>724272645I just really love the wooden palisade with a central stone keep. Especially with some wooden towers.
>>724275665lol look at the guy pooping!
>>724275665What would stop these guys from poisoning the whole castle with their piss
>>724272783guns
>>724292887having to drink the water they're going to piss in
>>724273292what if you just surround the surrounding army and stop them from getting food
>>724293108countersiege, really funny
>>724292887Drinking piss doesn't kill someone. Unless it's sitting for a long time, and at that point, any liquid is just as dangerous. Besides that, water collected in cisterns is not for consuming, it's for washing clothes and such or watering plants.
>>724293108build 2 sets of walls and fight both at the same time?
>>724277549Is this Age of Empires? I've been meaning to play that game.
>>724293108this guy has histories of a lot of sieges including a few countersieges.https://www.youtube.com/@SandRhomanHistory/videos
>>724293326Yes, Age of Empires 2 Definitive Edition.
>>724278976portuguese is my favorite castle. too bad i prefer to play bohemians and constantly wish for handcannoneer buffs.
>>724292887>>724293096>Need to capture an enemy castle>Luckily you anicipated this and sent in several sleeper agents two years ago to get recruited as guards>When your army arrives you send the signal to activate your agents>They immediately begin pissing and shitting in the cistern every day>The castle was captured in a month with zero friendly casualties
>>724293224To add more, IF the water was going to be consumed, it would be boiled thoroughly to clean it. It wasn't really piss you had to worry about, it was more so stagnant water or dead animals. That's much more dangerous, and they'd know that by seeing the remains or smelling it. Piss also just contains a lot of salt, so you'd die of dehydration before you did of any form of toxins.
>>724293408downright devilish
Play rimworld with mods.
>>724284434Based
>>724292887>What would stop these guys from poisoning the whole castle with their pissThe lead pipes doing the job for them probably.
>>724292887>*Enemy starts assaulting the walls*>*The King is dismayed*>King: "Woe be thee, that we shall cease to exist">*The Jester appears, jingling and jangling, carrying with thee lard, prunes and spices galore*>Jester: "I shall eat of these laxatives, and take a shit on them most foul thy' lorde'!">*The Kings heavy set furrowed brow raises in horror*>*Hot liquid Jester ass spray shoots out like a fire hose, as the Jester howls in a cacophony of pain and amusement, dousing one hundred and fifty men in a filthy greasy filmy foul concoction of forbidden clown juices**The plague spreads throughout the army as men vomit, and their eyes swell over*>King: "You did it my Jester! You saved us all!">*The Jester jumps in joy, clicking his heels midair as he lets out a fart, only to realize he shit his pantaloons instead!*
>>724294575
>>724284434>attackers willfully destroying a fortification they want to occupy >trebuchet launching in a flat angle and punching through a castle wallCool story, bro
>>724278976It's like they realised they'd started their alphabetical order from G half way through!
>>724272645
>>724272645https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fmutyrc2os4
>>724296541No way someone made this...
>>724283435>dont rely on foraging for your troops you stupid nigger>t. sun tzu
>>724285813>Bows have trouble aiming directly down, because of the obvious biomechanical disadvantages and angles,They really dont, one of the most common ways to start a draw when a kid is too weak to draw in the standard fashion is pointing directly down.
>>724283435>Forage nuts and berries for an army of 5,000 for a quarter of the yearThere better be some fertile asf does' in the surrounding woods.
>>724293224>Unless it's sitting for a long time, and at that point, any liquid is just as dangerous.Actually, it's the other way around. Stale piss is commonly known as "Lant" was used for all kinds of practial and medical purposes. Most commonly for laundry and curing furs and leathers, but sometimes even added to drinks. It's high in amonia so it smells awful, but it isn't harmful to the body unless you drink gallons of it. It was all around a valuable resource back in the middle ages. Also, while urine itself does not present an immediate danger to a person, it does dehydrate you. It's just slightly better than drinking salt water.
>>724283435>why wouldn't they just forage from the land around them?Hunter-gatherer bands usually consisted of between 4-10 people at max, and they would normally exhaust the local supply forageable and huntable food within the region in a month or so. Now imagine an army of several thousand people.As for looting, yes. But that won't last you long either. In fact, even while on the move, the army would ransac whatever village on their way to top up the supplies. Again, this will last you for a few weeks. A siege can last for months.
How's Stronghold and Stronghold Crusader Definitive Edition?
>>724272645Cataclismo. https://store.steampowered.com/app/1422440/Cataclismo/+>build your castle brick by brick>actually challenging>build deisgn matters>terrain awareness matters>puzzle like problem solving>cool theme>rewards exploration between waves>replayable->enemy variety is meh>metaslaving removes half the fun but is very powerful so is incentivised
>>724297223incredibly fun.
Crazy how people outside of the UK or half of europe think castles are cool and interesting, but to people inside the UK theyre just normal, everyday things you see on the way to the shops.
>>724275562>sees mixed reviews>comes here to ask whymaybe read the reviews you dumb nigger.
>>724272835>>724272783>>724272645Reminder that Leonardo Da Vinci designed the first bunker fortification AND first tank (apart from his flying machines and other gizmos)
>>724294575kek
>>724297227going to have to add to the cataclismo shilling because not enough people are talking about this fucking gem.too add the the + / -+>atmosphere is great>different enemies while lacking in visual or mechanical variety do force you to consider different build designs and of course, encourage you to evolve and research instead of just turtling>limited resources forcing expansions and swapping of defences matters more than in most games like this>enemy hives seem well implemented, the idea being that keeping them makes the night hordes harder but fighting them can itself be a time sink consideration>deleting walls is free and lets you refocus elsewhere when expanding, so you arent punished for early defence nor are you encouraged to not build walls "to save resouces for later use">this also leads to strategic outpost building to thin the horde that can then easily be replaced later->the campaign features too many walk and shoot levels that IMO just shouldnt be there, we're here for castles. Granted its minor as 90% of the playtime is in skirmish mode>tech tree seems needless, everything in there should be in game and research locked at worst>powers seem like a bad idea, id rather the game be balanced around not having them, but later game seiges outright require their use. certain powers are objectively better than others too>trapper seems mostly pointless, their slowing ability only works if theyre in outposts pre-wall, which are prone to being slaughtered, otherwise better to save resources on more AoE damage>oxygen system feels bad, why even have it?
>>724297223DOUBLE RATIONS, THATS GREATWOOD NEEDED WOOD NEEDED WO- WO- MORE GOLD IS NEEDED YOU HAVE BEEN PLAYING A VERY LONG TIME M'LORD
>>724297227>>724298226show me your comfiest motte and bailey in the game
>>724298479I'M SCARED ME LORD!
>>724272783Niggers. Niggers happened.
>>724272645I've never played a single game where you build castles that would be even remotely satisfying to me. Yes, including both of the "good" Stronghold games. If you grow up in a country with a lot of actual castles, you'll quickly realize how horribly limited all of these games are. Castles weren't symetrical collections of flat walls and flat towers sitting on a flat fucking surface.I understand that back in the days of Stronghold 1 there were limitations and need to adhere to some grid, but even then. You can't even build fucking bridges in that game.
>>724294575thumbnail looks like an extremely fat guy wearing a Batman mask, or Blasto lol
>>724297353>>724298479How are they compared to the HD versions?
>>724299650I agree. The best I've gotten is minecraft, especially older versions with a lot of weird terrain to take advantage of. No plains biome, you want a castle? Either build it into and around the terrain or dedicate half your life to clearing out a flat surface for it. That's not everyone's cup of tea, but I like it.I've played recent versions and the terrain is actually quite nice now, adventure update terrain was godawful and the new caves are a bit much but you can actually get cool mountains and overhangs and shit. So new minecraft is also a good castle builder game.
>>724275665I rember that book from schoolIt'school
>>724297223They need to scale this game up to Age of Empires.
>>724272645it's still in early access, but bellwright does something similar. let's you customize your own mini army and raid bandit camps. I think battlements are coming in a near future update.
>>724278976It's missing some castles I think
>>724272645Kenshi
>>724278976>Wei Shu WuHuh? Didn't know it got a three kangdoms dlc
>>724272645Yu-Gi-Oh Master Duel
>>724272783Start Forst, they were invented in Italy and spread around Europe.The reason why they became common is due to canons.The point of the weird shape is that it's hard for cannons to hit the walls at a 90 degree angle, which would allow for the projectile to do maximum damage.
>>724275665>all staircases spiraled in one directioninteresting
>>724281181I'm sure there are some forts. Castles aren't just to protect strategic areas they're also to shelter garrisons who could threaten an enemy that bypassed them
>>724283435Every army did supplement with foraging but when you've got five thousand men camped out for three and a half months you run the place completely dry, into an actual wasteland, by the end of month one. You need supply lines. Most deaths in a siege were from disease (and subsequent desertion because many armies were mostly voluntary) since having 5k guys all shitting in open trenches right next to where they sleep lets plague run wildfire
>>724303101It also allowed for much greater visual control of the surroundings.The one trade-off that Bastion forts had to do, is to lower the actual walls of the fortification. This was because instead of actual walls, they used thick embankment made out of soil, with only a relatively thin layer of bricks on the surface. This allowed the fortification to absorb the impact of the cannon shells, but it meant they had to be lower, and sloped, making them actually much easier to scale for foot soldiers, who would often not even need ladders anymore.Controlling the sight lines and making sure the soldiers aren't climbing over became much bigger concern. And anything like towers and watchtowers had to be basically ditched because it just became an easy target, so your perimeter wall was all sight you could get. Thus the star shapes, which prevent having blindspots along the perimeter. It also meant much more effort went into additional earthworks, namely moats, to further stiffle the march of infantry.it is kinda ironic that these fortresses became vulnerable to the exact thing that older castles completely solved: people just climbing in willy-nilly.
>>724285348Just artilleryGenuinely nothing worse for the quality of war and life of the average soldier than the invention of cannons/mortars.
>>724272645Going Medieval.It's Rimworld, but you are stuck in the Medieval Age and it's in 3D. So you can't just work with infinite food freshness because there is no AC, you need to build an actual cooling cellar.
>>724272783Gunpowder. Notice the Star Fort design starting to take shape and slender, tall towers are now replaced with fortified, reinforced shaped, more robust stubby towers.
>>724272645Dwarf fortress just got a seige update
>>724283894>cataclismo mentioned>swell with apartment complexes and backbreaking laborI love the building system, just a shame the enemy variety and overall feel of the game is rather mid.
>>724283894>>724304238Mid?I think the game is incredibly fun. It does what it does really well, and what it does is castle building and defending.The only major complaint I have is the oxygen system feeling totally tacked on for the sake of it. I get why its there mechanically, to essentially limit expansion by requiring oxygen expansion - but the way to overcome it is just build more OG buildings. It wouldve been better IMO if the building upgrade modules worked better for it, because as is it just feels like an annoyance that pops up from time to time that makes you roll your eyes and forces you to spam another batch of generators.As for the enemy variety, id agree it looks too same-y and there are some obvious monsters that are missing (digging worms that go under the walls, fliers, enemies that climb up and over walls, seige monsters etc) but what there is, while visually similar, do offer mechanical depth to how you set up your defenceI played something like diplomacy is not an option and found the usual issue of "its either melee or ranged enemies, you deal with them the same either way"Cataclismo actually punishes you for not considereing chitin enemies, or swarms, or brood carriers properly... though it would be better if you had to contend with fliers and climbers for sure
>>724303745how much has this improved?played about a year ago and after like four hours i'm getting bumrushed by a full army of bandits in plate and crossbows
>>724293326This promotional screenshot is just of looks, though. You don't really build castles Stronghold style in this game.
>>724304660>Cataclismo actually punishes you for not considereing chitin enemies, or swarms, or brood carriers properlyDoes it?A lot of the specialized units don't fulfill their purpose well enough. You're better off just spamming.. what are they called again? The ones that has a multi-function crossbow and a grenade special attack. They do a better job at sniping shit than the Hunter because the Hunter can't penetrate the enamel-armor and even if he could his damage isn't that much higher than the multi-function crossbow dude.You can generally get away with spamming 1 unit and sprinkle in bombardiers for flavor.
>>724305368maybe if you only want to live for like, 15-20 waves kekThat unit is expensive and while its effective, spamming them wont work for long because you cannot afford many of them and deal with the whole horde, their snipe is powerful but the fire rate is low so they need a solid position to keep shooting from, while other units pick off the gruff so they dont attack the wrong guythe rapid fire mode is great too, but it has no AoE, youre going to need to invest in AoE regardless.You also see massive value from status ailments like fire an poison, even slowing if set up rightthe thing is the rewards of playing better arent seen right away, playing efficient in wave 10-20 means by the time you are at wave 30, you are much, much better set up. Investing in spamming those guys in the short term means less expansion, which means less resources, which means less upgrading, which means less longevity.You wont get to see the late game thousand enemy hordes you see in clips by playing fast and loose like that.Though, I dont disagree it needs better balance in general, the net thrower guys feel useless on 8/10 maps, the heavy artillery guys dont feel worth the cost even when positioned well, especially since the guy who hits in a line just works better in most cases yet consumes the same rare resource, honestly making the AI move in zig zags would just fix this.But I dunno, I stopped spamming the hunter quickly when I realised better strategies existed.
>>724272645Robin Hood awoke medieval architecture and weaponry autism within me. I still remember making a woodden shield as a 8yo.And to answer OP. Besides stronghold there really are no games that scratch the same itch.Gonna dump few images of vidya castles now
>>724305783
>>724305837
>>724305880
I loved that Robin Hood game, precisely because of the beautiful castles.Was disappointed to learn they're not based on how the actual castles looked like.
>>724305924Same, but I still appreciate the game for what it was. Sure it was campy and easy game for kids but it still has some of the best looking castles in videogames since then
>>724275665Rub-a-dub-dub!
>>724272645Play Robin Hood: The Legend of Sherwood for sovlfull castle burglary
>>724306086You could at the very least fix your fucking aspect ratio before posting screenshots, you stretched-out cuntbag.
>>724278976>shu wei wuThree kingdoms are in AoE?
>>724306143You cant be serious.
>>724306225I am always serious.
>>724306143Ok, I'm sorry, I won't post itt anymore.
>>724302924>>724306185Yes.
>>724305752You're getting confused.I've gone ahead and actually wiki'd the name. It's the Partisan that you can and should spam.High dps, good range and an AoE attack that shreds enamel.I specifically said the Hunter was SHIT because his niche of sniping high priority targets is better filled by the Partisan.Also I don't get your hate for the cannoneer, in my experience the cannoneer is superior to the ballista. A single shot from the cannoneer paired with the fortification upgrade causes an absolute chain reaction removing all chaff from the field. Very satisfying.But perhaps it's because I don't abuse the AI pathing and thus don't get the benefits of the ballista.
>>724306462youre right I got the units crossed in my mindid just bring it up with the dev and see if they have plans to change the balance
>>724305783>>724305837>>724305880>>724305918This is a very pretty game.
>>724275665It is easy to spot propaganda. They can't help themselves:>Unguarded well out in the open, with a normal rope pulling mechanism. (In reality, the wells were inside and depending on the situated hight of the castle, needed a pumping system or at least had some kind of hamsterwheel contraption and a chain attached to the bucket to be able to get water from the depths. There were also reservoir systems, but I can't recall reading about one in a castle.)>MUST mention at least on one occasion, that something is primitive or smelly. (It's part of their programming, trying to underline how unhygienic our ancestors were. In reality there was a prominent bathing and washing culture. People were of course not as clean as we are nowadays, but they were definitely cleaner than indian and niggers nowadays.)>MUST mention the court jester and the dungeon. Jesters.. not that prominent or important. Dungeon. Did exist, but rare.Other dumb things that can get mentioned are:>Duuh all food was bland because only the rich could afford spices. (Muh wypipo don spice they food)goes hand in hand with>they had to overly salt their food, because their meat was spoiledRetarded.>Thanks to the dark ages we didn't advance in civilisation! We could've colonise mars by now!Reddit take. In those 1000 years a lot has happened in Europe. More and better steel has been discovered, art has advanced, warfare, building, medicine etc. But they try to discredit everything, saying that everything positive came from the mudslimes and that we were wild savages who invaded their lands, while they were noble heralds of good and justice. Completely twisted narrative. The middle east used to be Christian. The mudslimes invaded and conquered them one by one in their weakened state, as Rome was starting to collapse due to kikery and weakened by mongol invasion.Also, if Christianity held us back, why did nobody else advance? chinks, mudslimes, indians, aztec, niggers?
>>724307784Based and whitepilled.History is not theirs to steal. We had hearts of gold, dont let them take it from us.
Gosh darn it I love me castles. I'm lucky to live in Europe
>>724303679>foot soldiers, who would often not even need ladders anymore.That's new to me. I have seen many such forts and I can assure you, that it is impossible to climb up those walls, much less with any kind of armor or weaponry.
>>724302924>>724306185Yes and it's the most hated DLC precisely because it's 3K.
>>724307784I always find it curious that whenever people laud arabian academic achievements they always conveniently leave out how much of their knowledge base came from studying at western places of learning
What is the modern equivalent of a castle? A bunker inside a mountain?
>>724312981honestly really nothinganywhere important is protected by layers upon layers of sensory defenses that reach for miles and those aren't going to be your first warning of enemy movement of meaningful size in the age of orbital monitoringmodern doctrines are about blasting something before it ever comes into visual range with the 5000 methods of hitting things without being in the same area code we've developed over the years
>>724307784>meat was salted to preserve itHow do you get 'they overly salted meat because it was rotten' from that?
>>724307784Christikes came from the middle east and when Rome fell mined the Colosseum for rocks as a quarry because they couldn't build anything of their own.
>>724312981I think the closest were the flak towers.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flak_tower
>>724307784>Dungeon. Did exist, but rare.Dungeon literally means donjon.
>>724314069>almost 100 years old>modern
>>724314069>NEVER AGAIN!I hate hippies so fucking muchalso as an aside, old warefare was so fucking cool, shame modern warefare is all homo auto pilot missiles and cuckdrones.What are those brackets on the side for? Theres one below each balcony so it couldnt be for cranes to lift up munitions.
>>724313673They just try to make the medieval times look bad and backwards. On one hand, they overseason their food, to mask the taste of spoiled meat and on the other hand they say, that it was bland, because only the rich could afford salt/spices in general.That's what I meant.In reality, they were curing their meat with salt to make it last. That meat was then used to make soup/stews etc. i've eaten meals like those and they are delicious.Other ways of preserving meat, besides storing them in salt, were drying, smoking and a rather seldom mentioned one, I find, potting. Potting is slowly cooking meat in lots of fat until it is done. Then it is stored in a large pot. The fat keeps the meat from spoiling and it can be kept for months. It is just important that there is lots of fat, so that the meat is completely covered, submerged in fat.
>>724314359that is LITERALLY the modern era, retard.1800's-1945 is probably the most accurate, since 1500-1800 is usually referred to as early-modern.1945 onwards is the contemporary era.
>>724314661So why aren't they used anymore nigger fucker?
>>724314694Because Germannia is no longer at war.
>>724314694because we dont use flak cannons anymore you retarded niggerfaggot. Why would we need flak or artillery towers if we dont use them anymore?You asked for a modern thing, got given a modern thing, highlighted "modern" as if to imply it isnt modern, and was educated that it literally fits right into the modern erayou illiterate retard.You are the kind of retard who thought going from 2019 to 2020 was the turn of the decade, and not 2020-2021, because you cannot comprehend a decade starts at year 0 and therefore you have to complete year 10 to have lived 10 years.You are the kind of retard who goes on 9 because you forgot the second between 0 and 1.
>>724314929>because we dont use flak cannons anymore so it's not modern. Shan't be reading the rest of your seething post. Protip when someone asks about "modern" they mean present day.
>>724272783canons got strong enough to destroy traditional castle walls easily. star forts were the solution, angled walls to deflect cannonballs instead of absorbing the impact.
>>724314992>I was wrong and poorly educated, that is youre fault!>I will now be bowing out like a coward and pretending im not retarded, and pretending its everyone else thats retarded, thank youkek, what a pathetic limp wristed twat you are. And its amazing, despite reading a post predicting youd respond with >b-b-but I think the modern era means todayyou still respond with exactly that... Truly low IQ to walk into a trap you were told was there.
>>724314212I was talking about the modern word, which is used synonymously with "prison". They didn't have many prisons/dungeons back then. It was something rather special, since most punishments were monetary, corporal or honor/fame related. Oubliettes/dungeons came more towards the end of the medieval times and were more prominent in the renaissance. I know there are accounts of women being burried alive, but that was after 1500, as punishment for killing their newborn.
>>724314992NTA but you are a retard, you lack of education isnt the fault of anyone else.>>724315380>Truly low IQ to walk into a trap you were told was there.I dont get how you can read>>724314929>You are the kind of retard who thought going from 2019 to 2020 was the turn of the decade, and not 2020-2021and then actually double down that the modern era is forever and didnt end over EIGHTY years ago because muh feelings.
>>724314432My man it is a book to help kids understand some basic concepts about castles and life in medieval times, you're jumping at shadows.
>>724315584yeah they would never try to target kids with their propaganda
>>724315558>the modern era ended over EIGHTY years agogoddamn...
>>724315584Why can't they be accurate? It's history, not fantasy. Besides, take a look in a recent kids book about the middle ages, or watch a documentary. They are all twisted and false. So why should it not be accurate?
>>724315812ignore him, you are right, there is a deliberate attempt to villainise and demonise white peoples history at every single point and its obvious.
>>724312981Bunker, defence line, caponier.You can see all of them being used in ukraine by both sides, it slow down russian advances significantly and make it impossible for ukrane to gain any ground. Trenches, caponiers, underground bunkers and minefields with barbed wire replaced walls and towers.Trench warfare is modern form of castle, fortifications evolved much after widespread use of guns and later evolved even more with advance of mechanized warfare and airforce.Now you dig holes in the ground instead of building tall wall.
>>724272645Diplomacy is Not an Option.
>>724315978drone strikes are kind of destroying trench warfare, ultimately its kind of pointless to have boots on the ground at all now beyond the fact its simply too expensive to fight with nothing but missiles and drones, the boots are just meat into the grinder at this point. And theres nothing to shoot down drones easily that doesnt affect your own side, yet.Flak ironically could find a use as a of mini flak, its cheap and doesnt get interfered with, spotting drones is the harder part.being in a trench is just an excersise in sniper dodging while hoping a grenade isnt dropped on your head. Grim times.
>>724315941Thanks, mate.
>>724313673Salt is a spice and spice was used to cover the taste of poorly preserved meat. Of course, salt is also a preservative so it's an exception to the rule.
>>724316265I want to like the game... I just cant get into it.I dont know why, its just... meh?maybe its because the fort building is so basic.
>>724316430this is obviously false, the fact it can mask the taste of spoilage is clearly secondary to its preservative affectsever wonder how so many ancient people discovered wine?
>>724316430>cover the taste of poorly preserved meat.If it was spoiled, they didn't eat it.
>>724316294>And theres nothing to shoot down drones easily that doesnt affect your own side, yet.Shotguns.
>>724295108Probably ment the inner and outer wall of the outermost fortificationActually making a hole in the fortifications seems very tactically unsound, perhaps it was an annex fortification?
>>724316430you ignorant fucking retard. salt removes moisture from meat, thus preventing bacteria and mould from proliferating.and it's not a spice- it's a mineral!
>>724316294>drone strikes are kind of destroying trench warfare,Not really, since both sides are engaged in trench warfare. It's kinda simlar to WW1 but with less soldiers but better artillery and drones acting as early planes dropping light bombs from low altitude while real planes drop heavy stand off bombs.War got static because neither side can get any real advantage(numerical, air supperiority etc) Russia have slight advantage in some places so it slowly crawl forward.>the boots are just meat into the grinder at this pointBoots are ones who fight, all this fancy fiber wire fpv drones need someone to controll it, and it's done from bunker/underground shelter on frontlines.>And theres nothing to shoot down drones easily Shotguns, machine guns and SPAAG do work well, but hand weapons require soldiers to hit and more advanced SPAAG are in limited numbers when you consider how streached frontline is.>Flak ironically could find a use as a of mini flakThat's literally SPAAG and aa cannons that are used by both sides in form of ZS-23-2, Pantsir or Gepard. Problem isn't lack of "technology" to shoot down drones but frontline being streached too wide for any resonable coverage.
>>724295108>spent 3 months making a comically huge trebuchet>guys give up as soon as it’s doneI’d want to use it atleast once too
>>724316430Why would the meat be poorly preserved? They knew what they were doing. You think they'd waste condiments on spoiled food?Oh yeah, another thing that I missed:>Beer was stronger back then.What? If anything beer was less alcoholic back then. That's why children would drink it, too. It was very mild and people would drink it, because it's just different from water with a sweet, smokey taste, depending on the herbs of the region.No, it was not consumed, because water was dirty. Their water was not dirty, they had strict laws for that, even separated their water supplies between potable water and water used by craftsmen. Also, you can't brew beer with dirty water.. doesn't work. One more thing, meddling with drinking water would get you executed. Ironically through drowning.
>>724295108The thing >>724284434 is talking about was The Warwolf, also known as the Loup-de-Guerre or Ludgar, built on orders by the Lord of Ireland (who was in his 60s at the time) and it was the last holding out stronghold during the war, nobody died from it and basically signalled the end of the war
>>724317073interesting, fascinating to see where warefare is going and how its also the same.Im out of touch with modern warefare so im talking out of my ass, didnt think a shotgun would make a good counter but, thinking about it more it does make more sense than I imagined.I miss the concept of artillery cannons all the same, though. WW2 era technology is just more appealing to me I guess.
>>724317390>No, it was not consumed, because water was dirty.This myth never made sense to me, "no we can't drink water because it's dirty, we will drink beer that was made from same dirty water instead".Beer was popular because it taste good and have funny side effect, same as today, depite most people having acess to clean, fresh, cool drinkable water beer consumption is very high.
>>724305783>>724305837>>724305880>>724305918Good taste (but not what OP asked for)
>>724317047>>724316537Y'all only read my first line, didn't you. >>724316551Poorly preserved, not spoiled.
>>724318332There's no need to address anything else because your entire conceit was wrong.
>>724318021>interesting, fascinating to see where warefare is going and how its also the same.Yes. It was funny to see all the "internet experts" confidently announcing that tank is obsolete because it get blown up by ATGM, despite same thing happening all the time since 60's and ATGM is just next step in evolution of anti tank gun, and somehow they forgot how many tanks were lost during WW2, mostly by infantry or that anti tank weapons appeared in WW1 when tank was introduced.Despite all flashy stuff drones didn't changed how warfare is fought, just you now use less shells to hit your target because your survilance and strike capability got better.There is no large armoured advance in Ukraine because of crazy ammount of mine, you have minefields so wide that mine plow is destroyed before it reach any resonable distance, only if it won't get blown up by drone or atgm.The more things change the more they stay the same.
>>724295108>trebuchet launching in a flat angle and punching through a castle wallThat's how trebuchets work, anon.You drag your trenches as close to the walls as humanly possible and let the thing practically punch the wall to see if it breaks.The idea and physics behind it are identical to firearms and cannons. Hopefully you don't need convincing that a gun pointing at a wall will do more damage than a gun pointed above the wall and fired from far back enough that the shell/ball still falls into it.
>>724317886>>724295108>>724284434To add to this, The Lord Of Ireland straight up refused accept the surrender till he got to test it, they gave up way before it was ever ready and they practically begged to let them give up but the old man just kept going “nope we’re doing this, already got the parts shipped and the engineers are here, not leaving till I see a 300 pound rock get thrown”
>>724302795I like this one the most.
>>724317390Properly preserving meat was expensive. Salt was used for everything and smoking took time and fuel. Butchers would cut corners were they could, chopping off any bit that was clearly rotten but leaving the rest. This resulted in meat that wasn't necessarily toxic but had a funny taste.
>>724318641Nope, you know you leapt to conclusions and now you have to live with the knowledge that you're just as bad as your moral watchdog parents.
>>724319112Seeing as my pop was a literal judge, thanks!
>>724272783Despite looking cool castles aren't that fun to live in compared to manors. Once the need for defensive stone was over they stopped.
>>724272783Now post the modern age fortress
>>724319038>Properly preserving meat was expensiveIf you can't preserve meat you can just you know, eat freashly killed animal. Commoners didn't eat meat on regular.Nobles had money bo buy salt and castles had cold basements often filled ice that was collected from river during winter, to act as freezer.If you could afford spices then you could afford proper meat preservation.
>>724319038>preserving meat was expensiveWhat?Smoking is expensive? You hang lots of it in a shed and smoke it. Very popular with sausages nowadays. Done in 3 to 4 days, depending on how you want it. Can preserve meat in a pot of fat.Salt wasn't THAT expensive, unless you lived in some tiny village with nobody around, where trading could happen.Butchers had to follow rules and standards or else they had to pay large sums or would get kicked from the guild.Besides that, meat would sell very well and was the basis for most of their meals. They ate more meat than we do nowadays.
>>724275665me bottom left
>>724319038>smoking took time and fuel.Anon, smoking comes from putting the meat in the right place. Chimneys and other ways of getting smoke out of your shed only start being used in late medieval period, and even then only for the richest of people.Normal people don't need to give a fuck, their kitchen is a permanent smoke room since the smoke has to blow somewhere inside the house.>https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rauchk%C3%BCche
>>724318853no offence meant by this but are you american and did you learn this on a trip to Ireland? you just phrased that in a weird waythe warwolf was built by Edward I, who was Lord of Ireland officially but it was build outside of Stirling Castle during the war of scottish independance in 1304.
>>724319865During wartime, salt could be as valuable as gold. Wood was also valuable as it was the primary means of keeping homes warm in the winter. Seeing as most homes were as porous as a prostitute's undergarments, fuel wood had a price. Guilds did regulate butchers but as long as the meat didn't make anybody sick nobody cared. >was the basis for most of their meals. They ate more meat than we do nowadays.The Nobles, maybe. The commoners were lucky if they ate meat every couple days.
>>724320074If you put meat in the chimney it would burn. If anything, that proved you needed spices to cover the taste of ashen steaks.
Someone post that one German castle that got split between four different families.
>>724319038>Properly preserving meat was expensiveWe have been doing it since before we were officially human, you blithering idiot. Salt is not expensive if you live near the coast. Smoking has been available since we mastered fire.You're looking at the entirety of human history and outright dismissing it.
>>724320602>wartimeMost people didn't experience war and it was not a constant state, also, why would salt be more expensive during war time? And why wouldn't they have provisions and always have cured meat? What are you talking about?>WoodEveryone had wood. It wasn't rare at all. They often had parts of the forest in their backyard which they would tend to.>Guilds>as long as the meat didn't make anybody sick nobody cared.Lies. Those people took their jobs very seriously and had a reason to, which is credibility. If a guild is shit and has low standards, nobody wants to trade with you and your town . The last thing a lord wants is to lose trade. They had to make sure that the market is clean, safe, fair and of high quality.
>>724272645I think stronghold have near monopoly in this niche and rts games are alredy small market.Unpopular oppinion Stronghold 2 was good.
>>724296541Nice channelhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=duUxirCYwQs
>>724321647.Most people didn't experience war and it was not a constant state, also, why would salt be more expensive during war time? And why wouldn't they have provisions and always have cured meat? What are you talking about?Curing meat was EXTREMELY salt dependent. You basically had to bury the food in meat to keep it from rotting.>Everyone had wood. It wasn't rare at all. They often had parts of the forest in their backyard which they would tend to.Most people didn't own land. They rented the land which was often clearcut for as much farmland as possible. Anybody that did have trees had Orchards which meant they couldn't cut down the trees without losing income. >They had to make sure that the market is clean, safe, fair and of high quality.Again, as long as nobody got sick nobody was going to complain if the taste was off.
who is pic rel of medieval shit?
>>724307784it's literally a book for children retard lmao
>>724323523>Curing meat was EXTREMELY saltYeah and? That salt isn't lost and it wasn't THAT expensive.>They rented the land which was often clearcut for as much farmland as possible. Anybody that did have trees had Orchards which meant they couldn't cut down the trees without losing income.Forest. They had a literal forest that they tended. Alternatively they could buy wood. It's like saying "you can't drive that car because you rented it AND diesel must be used."As to people not owning land, it depends. Free people could have their own stuff, but they had to go to war. Unfree people didn't have land, but didn't have to go to war.>>724323523>Again, as long as nobody got sick nobody was going to complain if the taste was offIf the taste was off, they would complain.They were normal humans with standards, not some shitskins.Then the guilds would fine the butcher. There was no cutting corners and they were butchering fresh animals daily.
>>724324260I care. Kys fag
>>724311463>that it is impossible to climb up those walls, much less with any kind of armor or weaponry.Dude, we used climb those walls as kids for fun. There is a lot these fortifications where I live, one of them was literally enclosing the park in front of my highschool.They are incredibly easy to climb on. And it's not like the soldiers wore full plate fucking armor either, that shit was long gone for the same reason why classic walls were gone.
>>724272645It's amazing how architectural engineering has evolved that 550 years to build an oversized fort could be done in only 5 years as a government side project.
>>724320209I wrote it up really quick using vague memory towards it, appreciate the clarification tho
>>724319038Literally a retarded take. We've been preserving meat for thousands of years, dipping meat into a hot vat of water in winter and hanging outside willl cause it to freeze instantly
>>724319038Worth noting that in many places in the world you can literally dig a hole in the ground and line it with something and you have a natural fridge. It won't keep meat good in perpetuity but it will keep it good for a day or two while you source some salt to preserve it
>>724288817>>724296914>>724297043>>724283435>>724285201>Eating from the landbut he did it
>>724272645There was one called Castle Strike, its alright
>>724329445Sherman did what he did as a punitive action and as an attempt to break the will of the Southern population. It was much more like chevauchee or modern terror bombing than an actual practical forage method. Though no doubt his army did obtain supplies by raiding.
>>724324473>Yeah and? That salt isn't lost and it wasn't THAT expensive.Actually, some salt Was lost and it could get THAT expensive. Some of the salt would soak into the meat and there wasn't an economic means of getting it back. Likewise, some of the salt was lost from handling, spilling on on the ground or disposed of after being so thoroughly contaminated with meat juices. >Forest. They had a literal forest that they tended. Alternatively they could buy wood. It's like saying "you can't drive that car because you rented it AND diesel must be used."No, I'm saying preserving meat was expensive.>As to people not owning land, it depends. Free people could have their own stuff, but they had to go to war. Unfree people didn't have land, but didn't have to go to war.Irrelevant. Salt was a trade good so if there was a demand for salt it would affect prices for everybody. >If the taste was off, they would complain.No they wouldn't. They'd just throw more spices on it. Medieval cooks already used spices as a way of showing wealth so nobody was going to complain that the meat had more pepper than normal.
>>724330453>Medieval cooks already used spices as a way of showing wealth so nobody was going to complain that the meat had more pepper than normal>can't afford salt>but can afford pepperOh come on. Pepper was fucking imported from asia.
>>724319610You forget that meat was a trade good and nobles bought and traded food like anybody else. Rather than slaughtering one of his own animals a noble would simply buy smoked or salted meat from local butchers and merchants. The merchants, of course, were always looking for ways to cut expenses so they'd shorten the smoking process, use less wood or less suitable wood for smoking. They'd use the bare minimum salt and sell meat that looked and little strange but was not yet rotten.
>>724330961>Can't afford saltNow who said that? It wasn't about using No Salt, it was using the Bare Minimum Salt that a merchant could get away with. The meat was still edible but had a weird taste to it.
>>724324473>>724330453Just wanted to let you know that both of you are complete fucking retards arguing about shit neither of you understand in the slightest, and you should probably chose a different subject of debate. Neither of you have any ideas about basic aspects of medieval life. One of you does not think water contamination was a problem in middle ages while the other does not know that forests were the solemn property of the nobility and commoners were not allowed to cut them under the strictest penalties imaginable.Both of you are cretins. Stop embarrassing yourself.
>>724305270>You don't really build castles Stronghold style in this game.you perfectly can, unless of course you're playing against other players, but why would you do that with such a comfy game
>>724275562it's shallow as hell for one thing.the only game mode is killing 4 enemy towers, victory is killing the four towers and the game fails to scale up outside the scripted red moon nights that come after killing a tower.there's no speed up so it takes hours just to pass through 20 days.unit and economy caps are way too low, you break it without even trying and then you're just kinda there with your dick in your handit's highly derivative of Settlers combined with a 4x tile system but it's lacking several things that makes playing Settlers better, mainly informative UI elements. They have a pop counter, but no counter for how many are workers or how many are idle. I've played 20 hours and still don't know if troops count against your population limit or not. I've noticed idle workers get turned into troops but I've also noticed with max pop buildings my pop count isn't at max and never reaches it with no explanation. the game tells you when you're at barrack troop limit(somewhere around 200) but never if training numbers requested are larger than available workers. Nothing shows you collection radius on sawmills, I'll catch some sending workers 2 squares out and others just having their workers do nothing.a bunch of buildings and tech seems useless. Tech tree is also bad, you unlock caravans before you unlock the building that can create them.On top of that I'm seeing some bad shit like suicide enemies that just instant blow up and murder your melee units, , no way to react, and training times to build an army are already long.
Since we're tangential, I just want to say I have no idea how drone warfare and to a lesser extent mega-minefields that kids are going to be getting blown up in 30 years time in haven't been added to the "shit we banned in warfare because literally nobody wants to deal with it".Drones fucking scare me man, it's turned the draft from a solemn duty to literal genocide against your own civilians; you're just standing around, waiting to be executed by the enemy for no other reason than you were born in the wrong place at the wrong time. There's no real counter to it, no skill involved, definitely no honor / dignity, it doesn't gain land and increasingly the case where there isn't even a human on the other side, it's just some AI robot recognizing the heat of your breath from 2km away and homing in on your. Your counters is a choice of olympic-level reaction times and skeet shooting (to a silent machine out of your field of view) or nets that are easily snipped and impractical to cover everything with. Headbutt it if you're that one guy. And if you survive, the main drone from above way out of range of even a sniper, that you don't have) keeps sending them until you're dead. The fact ukies and ruskies are both bragging about drone kills on social media just makes me want to see both dead; not out of any real hatred, but in the same way you'd be uneasy around a grenade with the pin out, you'd want to throw it far away from you as quickly as possible. Like, some core primate instinctive "get this the fuck away from me" response.It's not even subhuman, it's flat out inhumanIf you were to ask me to choose between laser weapons (banned by the Geneva convention) or drones, I'd stare at the sun to blind myself for you every time. Fuck, give me mustard gas, give me anthrax, whatever.>inb4 ummm there are no rules in love and war sweetie :))))Then nuke everything and get it over and done with. Anything but those fucking drones.
>>724333292no, you don't want mustard gas.I'd rather get kamikaze'd by a drone and die in 5 seconds than have the flesh inside and outside of my body melt.
>>724333292There are conventions against use of landmines but neither USA, China or Russia or Ukraine signed it and now Finland, Poland and Baltics decided to drop said convention and just put some mines on borders.Also most "banned weapons" aren't banned and geneva conventions don't ban anything, it's all about treatment of pow and civilians and legal bullshit about it, while shity reporters present it as some big book that ban all sorts of weapons.Most "banned weapons" are banned from use against/near civilians(kindergarden when there are soldiers inside turns into viable military target and you can bomb it to your hearts content, while other side might commit war crime by using civilians as human shields), but against soldiers almost anything goes with exeption of lasers that blinds(because you are supposted to kill not permanently blind someone cuz that's cruel), also chemical weapon is banned by other convention.Other than that all prohibited weapons like cluster bombs, flamethrowers, mines etc are banned by some convention out of ass that nobody outside EU didn't sign, and especially not US or Russia.There is no convention against nuke and you are free to nuke as you like as long as it's viable military target and not too close to civilians, just fact that if you start nuking others will also go for the button and everyone is fucked.Most drones especially ones that you can see kill cam are remotely controlled by someone via wire(cuz radio is jammed). Also there is counter to it simply shoot the drone.>And if you survive, the main drone from above way out of range of even a sniper, that you don't have) keeps sending them until you're dead. That's no diferent from when US predator drones would just strike some random guys in Iraq and Afganistan with hellfire or Apache hellicopter wiuld gun them down with 30mm cannon from 5km away.
>>724331602Wait, when did Water Contamination come into this?
>>724334023Anon mustard gas won't kill you, unless you are in the desert or during heat wave, then it will burn your lungs and choke you to death.Mustard gas will give you chemical burns(not really, it's more complicated) that will hurt like hell for couple weeks and will kill you 10-20 years later causing cancer.Mustard gas was least lethal WW1 gas, just there was no protection from it since it worked against skin, unlike chlorine that would straight up kill you by melting your lungs with acid, but could be countered by simple gas mask.
>>724334023You can latex up for Mustard gas (even if it just buys you some time), nothing will save you from a drone.
>>724297086Why the fuck would you wash clothes in piss? Is this from the lead pipes?
>>724334607The point remains a drone is no different to a grenade or artillery shell lobbed at you
>>724318853god i bet so many people on the allied side during WW2 were completely ecstatic to hear that Japan wasn't keen on surrendering
>>724334863>some kid in malaysia killing you with his xbox controller using infinite $2.50 drones sourced from a factory that the US gave to China to avoid paying it's own workers a living wage is no different from an enemy soldier playing a game of deadliest catch (alternate definition) from 25m away
>>724334861Piss is full of amonia. It was used for washing and dying clothes among other things. Think of stale piss as cleaning product and industrial product when you don't have acess to modern technology.Shit was collected and used for production of saltpeter that was main ingridient of black powder.Chemistry was rough and smelly before industrial revolution
>>724335191what do you think artillery fire is?we're talking km here not m
>>724334863>uncounterable method of death is no different to a counterable method of death or a barely counterable method of deathHope you hear high pitched buzzing in your final moments retard.
>>724272645980 most comfiest
>>724335331Artillery fire is something that inherently has to reveal it's position, and can be taken out. Drones are neither.
>>724273245>burgerica host important events in tentsNigger thats embarrassing
>>724334863No it don't, you can easly protect against chemical weapons, gas mask protect against most, outside blister agents like mustard that just hurt like hell and give you cancer and nerve agents that are super lethal and can get you with mere skin contact. You can protect yourself against those with simple nbc suit that every soldier is issued.In case you don't have suit and are hit with nerve agent like sarin or vx you still will live as long as you get injection of atropine that was in every soldier's nbc kit during cold war. Chemical warfare is 100 years old and well researched, there are a lot of countermeasures against it. Main problem with chemical weapon is fact that 100kg warhead will cover way bigger area than conventional explosives or cluster munition and it will most likely affect civilians.>>724334849You can easly protect yourself against chemical weapons, and mustard gas in matter of fact is yellow liquid.
>>724335453>Artillery fire is something that inherently has to reveal it's position, and can be taken out. Drones are neither.Lol wrong, drones are controlled, you either controll it by radio showing everyone where you are doing it from, or you literally are dragging 20+km fiber wire cable from point you launched, cable that will be there after drone explode.
>>724303740>Genuinely nothing worse for the quality of war and life of the average soldier than the invention of cannons/mortars.*high pitch buzzing*
>>724319038>everything and smoking took time and fuelyou can just let it dry in the sun, the salt will keep insects away, but you will have to keep an eye for wild animals
>>724278976Turkish one looks very comfy to me.But Vikings and Celts have very nice ornaments
>>724272645>Any game similar to Stronghold where you build your castle AND defend it?Build it brick by brick, get workers, get soldiers, build defenses and traps, get magic bullshit, AI adapts to your defenses each wavehttps://store.steampowered.com/app/2086680/Castle_Craft/
>>724283894no melee = no buy
>>724319950Cesspool cleaner?
>>724333292calm down, drones are not fool proof, they can be dealt with IF you have any experience with them, wait until we get actual drone swarms. and to help you calm down a bit, imagine it like this, right now we are in the middle of drone warfare period, and just like in the middle of recent fireams period where armor became pretty much useless and cannon fire tore through castle walls like nothing, another example is the early tank, the way it would shake and destroy the static warfare of ww1, what i mean is that we still haven't developed proper counter measures, just give it a bit of time, maybe a few more years until we get proper jammers or a weapon specialized in dealing with drones
>>724307784I'm old enough to have seen what life without refrigerators is. And without washing machines. And without toilets.Meat and fish were preserved by salting and smoking. Salt traders are literally in our folklore.
>>724335352>>724334849>pichonestly I can think the one foolproof defense would be some sort of heated wire barrier, when the fiber spools over it then it would cut the wire and the drone would go dead. From what I read you probably can't simply melt these composite fiber cables with any practical temperature, or you would need to engineer some barrier that detects the wire and snips it mechanically. Like if we were talking a sci fi concept, something like a 20 km long fence with a laser on top that would snip the wire. Because of the way the wire spools out it would NEED to lay down on the barrier if it passed over it at all.
>>724335453drones have a limited range, if there is a drone in the area, the drone operator is not so far away, i would go as far as to say that artillery has a more range than a drone, but that's just my experience with drone that had an effective range of 500~ meters
>>724335968>you can see where it came from after it killed you (basically the same as a built up artillery position)>just shoot the small moving robot target high up in the clouds from 1km away (no different from a static manned artillery fixture)>>literally has no fucking clue what he's talking about because he thinks the drones don't carry the wires themselves these daysYour ESL retardbabble makes me think you're one of the subhumans who's using drone warfare right now, and is shilling it because it's the only thing """your side""" (either side, both sides) has left after the war ground up all your men into red paste for no real reason.
>>724272645Manor lords is kinda a village builder, i think they doing more castle shit though, i haven't played it in long time
>>724336603>wait until we get actual drone swarmsThis might be actually easier to deal with because swarm need radio connection for communication, meaning it can be jammed or even hacked.There is reason why in ukraine are used either fiberwire drones that pull wire behind them or drones that are just poor's man cruise missile like shaheed.We alredy have countermeasures against fpv drones in form of aa fire and shotguns, while alredy forcing them to dump wireless radio controll because of jamming in favor of drones that use spool of cable for controll while most of shaheed drones launched in daily attacks at ukraine get shoot down.There are alredy effective countermeasures against drones and jamming went so hard that drones used in ukraine completly dropped wireless controll.
>>724334364>Wait, when did Water Contamination come into this?Earlier, in the discussion about beer. Which again, saw both sides being completely wrong: beer indeed was much weaker in the past, it was barely alcoholic at all. But it was drank due to concerns over water quality, though the alcohol itself wasn't the sterillizing agent, but the damn process of brewing it was. >>724334861>Why the fuck would you wash clothes in piss? Is this from the lead pipes?More specifically, it was lant, which is fermented piss. But yeah, as the other guy said, it's full of ammonia, and overall, is fairly highly alkaline, it breaks down acidic substances which include grease, fat, blood, resin and similar hard to remove dirt.The smell is unpleasant, but you can very easily rinse that off after you removed the more severe stains. Fun fact: do you know how leather tanning used to be made? If you had a pelt, you'd first remove all the flesh, fat and veins from it.You would then soak it in strong alkaline solution, most commonly, urine - though sometimes lime water would be used instead. Urine was more common as it was more accessible most of the time.This would loosen the hair, which you would scrape off. Then you would "bate" the pelt, either by pounding shit into (literally, covering it with dung and then beating it), or soaking it in a solution made out of animal brains. This creates a fermenting process that softens the material.Then you'd dry it, or sometimes smoke it, and finally, if needed, coat in wax or oil.Vegetable tannins were sometimes used to supplement the process. These were usually made out of oak or chestnut bark and leaves.But yeah, leatherworks were legendarily foul smelling places, and often prohibited to operate within city confines.And yes, all human urine was actually being used in middle ages. All of it. There were people with quite literal sole job of collecting urine from each house in the settlement. It was a strategic resource.
>>724336160>you can just let it dry in the sunSundrying meat is a lot more difficult than you think. Most cuts of meat are not suitable for it. And even what is, the result is quite difficult to eat. It wasn't a common way of preserving meat in medieval era. More of a meso/north american thing, and even then they had to then pound the sun-dried meat into literal powder and mix it with grease and berries to make it edible.
>>724320602>Wood was also valuable as it was the primary means of keeping homes warm in the winter.You're overestimating their population densities and underestimating their forest sizes. People who grew up even in the '50s in the countryside are struggling with more and more regulations today because they used to just go into a forest and chop up a fallen tree for whatever they needed. Sometimes you'd chop down a dead tree that's still standing but usually you could just find one already broken.
>>724273245Imagine thinking the White House didn't already have a child sex dungeon in each wing
>unironic drone apologistsWonder if we're going to see robo-dog apologists or bulletproof terminator apologists in our lifetimes.>go on comrade, we theoretically have counters to it, now go ahead and deal with it by yourself (I'll stay at home recruiting more useful idiots)Honestly reminds me of 40K where the imperium propaganda is that the flashlights can punch through Necron armor, Tyranids will run away from bug spray and you can go hand to hand with any slow, lethargic Ork provided you have faith in the Emperor; just so soldiers are more willing to fight an enemy they're only there to slow down as fodder.
>>724329271Yep. It's free so it's still seeing limited use today. Mostly for storing something like canned food but still.
>>724336705There are methods of fighting drones like rotating razor wire to cut fiberwire, or just send your own drone after enemy drone, or wait and observe and recognize enemy controll base aka basement they are launching drones from and drop artillery/drone/grenade there or just send dude with scissors to cut said wire, all of this are used in Ukraine.>>724337012>>you can see where it came from after it killed youJust use radar, they can detect this shit same way you use counter battery radar to detect enemy artillery before it hit you.>just shoot the small moving robot target high up in the clouds from 1km away Small drones aren't flying 1km above ground, and you can do it with AA gun, when it's closing on you you can shoot it with machine gun or shootgun as war in ukraine shows.You are acting as if drone warfare is some miracle and great revolution and not effect of both sides failing to gain numerical or air superiority. If Russia or Ukraine was able to gain air superiority nobody would be even talking about drones, but here we are when 10 guys have to controll 10 square km with drones and planes have to drop glide bombs 100km away from front lines.
>>724337675>You're overestimating their population densities and underestimating their forest sizes.No, he isn't, actually. First of all, through out Europe, we now often have more forested surfaces today, than we used to have 200 years ago. Second of all, forests were under strict protection, as they were the primary source of noble's diet. Cutting down trees without explicit permission from the lord was just slightly less serious offense than poachery. Even collecting kindling was often punished harshly. Wood was an expensive commodity in the middle ages. One of the many, many ways to very effectively indirectly tax your subjects, as pretty much all of it had to be purchased through the estate.
>>724336912military drones are running on 40km of composite fiber optic cable, I disagree with him but that's the one thing he got right is that finding the operator isn't such a simple solution.the reality is finding the artillery isn't simple either because if you are infantry under fire your only hope is that you can accurately relay their location to support, which you can't because bombs are dropping on your head. Taking out a known drone operator position, if you know it, will have the same operational challenges. The only real distinction here between the two is the relative mobility and stealth... you might as well be just as afraid of a bomber flying over you because we're talking about 3 things that can pulp you from miles away and nothing you can do about it. The focus on drones doesn't make much difference in the grand scheme of 20th century's largely impersonal combat to present.
>>724334358Ukraine had signed them. Which is yet more proof that disarmament and peace initiatives don't work if you have someone who never intends to play along near you.
>>724295457>game build around fighting 2-4 orcs at once>mission build around fighting 30 orcs at once>quickly becomes an unmanageable shitshowWhoever thought it was a good idea to let strongholds have 12 orcs with 24 bodyguards needs to be shot.
>>724336593it's a living
>>724338003I guess further west things were different and in the last 150 years or so the rules became laxer everywhere. Fair that in most of the places like modern France and Germany getting wood would have been much more difficult and expensive than in some other parts.I still think that getting "kindling" would've been relatively easy but you'd have to bribe someone to turn a blind eye to it from time to time. Just human nature.
>>724339092literal skill issuethe first game is the exact same where you're frequently surrounded by like 15 to 20 orcs
>>724338702>Ukraine had signed themOnly Ottawa Treaty against land mines, but not culster munition one.
>>724339930Cluster munitions are much more difficult to make (right, at least), thus more costly, so despite technically being able to make them Ukraine hasn't made them.
>>724339857I mean actual nemesis orcs, not the cannon fodder.Strongholds become unfun when you start getting people who farm orcs with 0 vulnerabilities and then a nightmare when you get people farming orcs with 7 immunities and 0 vulnerabilities, then followed by hacked orcs that are unkillable.
>>724338003Not all forests, you are making up retarded shit. Only royal preserves and those were a tiny minority and even those allowed peasants to use them to gather firewood, feed pigs on acorns, harvest mushrooms etc. The only thing banned was killing noble prey like deer.Wood was absolutely not an expensive commodity during the middle ages and no one fucking ever had to purchase it. You are making shit up. Redditoid fucking retard.
>>724336705i'd like to order 900 miles of heated wire barriers please
>>724272645This was kind of the reason I got They are Billions. It seemed a good stronghold building game and it was fun for a while but soon the annoying design and lack of variety made me quit it. Retard developers didn't add saves but at the same time designed levels for you to have no way to know where the waves are attacking you from and late game maps are too sprawling to defend without knowing anything. Give it a look if you don't mind the obtuse design and the steampunk setting.
>>724340113They don't need to, just like Russia Ukraine had large stock of soviet era equipment and munition.
>>724283894I refunded this game. Fun concept but tedious execution.
>>724340839Didn't most of the now western Europe still have fewer forests than east, percentage wise? I'm not him, just curious.Also if all forests were forbidden for the majority they wouldt've have figured so prominently in folklore with the average Joe going to/through them frequently. Also plenty of "going to gather kindling/berries/whatever" in folklore too. I guess he is full of shit and I thought it's just different elsewhere.
>>724278976Mayan temples were actually big square artificual hills made of stone and dirt, the little house on top is the only habitable part.
>>724341370Only relatively large, and lots got sold off or decommissioned. Everything that was available in 2022 is used up by now and you didn't see pretty much anything cluster mentioned until western munitions started arriving. Some anecdotal legacy hardware might have seen some use but wanting to be peaceful was indubitably proven to be a huge mistake.
>>724341625No. Most of Europe was covered with forests and they were absolutely massive.>Also if all forests were forbidden for the majority they wouldt've have figured so prominently in folklore with the average Joe going to/through them frequently. Also plenty of "going to gather kindling/berries/whatever" in folklore tooThe basis of the medieval economy was the serf and getting it to extract as much shit from your land as possible. Not letting them to gather berries/firewood/mushrooms/wild bird eggs/wild honey, etc. from your woods would have been economic suicide, as your huge parts of your land would have essentially being left fallow and unproductive. Also, raising pigs innawoods, especially in oak and beech forests with plents of nuts and shit to eat is huge European tradition and an economically incredibly important one, as it turned otherwise barren beechwoods(seriously, just look at a picture of them how do they look) into places where you can raise livestock. Pigs were also pretty easy to cull and process at the start of the winter as the nuts ran out, before they started losing weight.
>>724324260>Teaching children falsehoods and passing it off as true history is okay!kys
>>724342245>Not letting them to gather berries/firewood/mushrooms/wild bird eggs/wild honey, etc. from your woods would have been economic suicide, as your huge parts of your land would have essentially being left fallow and unproductive.My first thought was the they'd just largely die. At the absolute best become too malnourished and ill from undercooked/not cooked food and freezing during the cold seasons that they'd be useless as workers.>pigsHuh, ours are still generally kept in pens and fed various crops, special "stews", and also obviously leftovers. Regional differences I guess. I do know that letting them out is lots of trouble as getting them back in might be difficult and they just tear apart everything when foraging.
>>724341695Anon, most of these are completely made up Disney castles. Most of the world didn't have anything even resembling castles. AoE invents these buildings (see the fortresses in AoM or Forts in AoE3 ages after these things stopped having any practical use) because they are a part of the game's design but for all intents and purposes, it's as real as mana potions or bunny hopping.
>>724342835https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PannageMedieval life and economy differs from modern one in completely unexpected ways.
>>724340839>Not all forests, you are making up retarded shit. Only royal preservesDidn't I already warn you about talking shit you know absolutely nothing about, child?
>>724343606>pigs can safely eat acorns as a large part of their diet, whereas excessive amounts may be poisonous to ponies and cattle.They really are fascinating in just the sheer variety of things they can eat with no problems.>The pigs each have several nose rings clipped into their noses to prevent them rooting too much and causing damage to grassland.Clever.
>>724343864You were already btfo, little redditor.
>>724344934"Royal reserve". What exactly do you think that means, child?
>>724344934It's a jeet shitposter, you can tell it apart from the others after you observe it for a while.
>>724345164It means that all the rights of the Commons, like common of mast(this one would be the pigs), right of turbary, right of common of marl, etc. may be exercised there. Are you retarded by any chance or just read something on reddit and trying to look smart?
>>724346690>Are you retarded by any chance or just read something on reddit and trying to look smart?That is what we call projecting, child.You also didn't answer my question. What do you think "royal reserve" means? Because what you described actually contradicts your previous post.
>>724346993It means that all the rights of the Commons, like common of mast(this one would be the pigs), right of turbary, right of common of marl, etc. may be exercised there. That is literally the definition of a royal preserve by British law and has been since medieval times.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charter_of_the_ForestAre you going to get btfo again and again? What do YOU think a royal forest is?
