was she orchestrating everything or was it conductors? did they imprison her?
>>724320048Sex with this thing
bump
>>724320048Conductor boss says they though they had control, but they underestimated her control over the silkThey were injecting silk into people you know
She was the true top authority. The day to day and admin of Pharloom didn't matter to her so long as her reign was continued and her silk propagated.
>>724322061SILK IN THE WATER IS MAKING THE BUGS GAY
Basically she had the weavers under her thumb but pissed them off when they found out they were just fake children given some of her power, and could never actually become gods or immortal like she was. So they locked her up in a cage then left for hollownest.Many years later she's slowly starting to leak out of her imprisonment even while still being asleep
>>724322191Many such cases
funny how lore isnt set in stone until mossbag makes a video
>>724322191This, but change "GAY" to "TRANS"
>>724322309nobody gives the weavers enough shit for the total bitch move they pulled everyone blames the snails
>>724323028Pretty much everyone gives the weavers shit. Only reason hornet doesn't get shit is because she is half wyrm and thats how she looks (also possibly has wyrm aura)
>>724320048I beat her about 30 minutes ago while attempting the speedrun cheevo. Such an underwhelming final boss in retrospect. You'd think that the god pulling all the strings (literally) would have more than 3 moves, not including spike platforms and rockfalls. The Radiance had 5 moves, along with a unique final phase incorporating a platforming segment. If the inevitable Silksong DLC doesn't introduce a buffed GMS, we riot.
>>724323361my guy she is not the final boss
>>724323425he's still right
>>724323425I know. I've 100% the game. She's the final boss of the base ending. Don't be a pedant.
>>724323028shit for what? Losing a rebellion and fleeing?
>>724322953Well there are certain things we know for absolute certain1. Grand Mother Silk and her gang of Weavers were late additions to Pharloom. Before their arrival, water flowed freely through Karak and a bug ghost in Nameless Town laments at being seduced by the whispered promises of The Weavers2. The Weavers themselves were uplifted by Grand Mother Silk. The strongest assumption is that the Weavers USED to be the Pharlids, the fucking annoying little shits that hide in walls and attack anything that comes near. But everything went wrong when The First Sinner discovered the truth. That they weren't "divine first children." And that GMS lied. 3. The Weavers created the Weavenests to hide from GMS's surveillance as they conspired against her.4. We don't know the specifics of when but we know the songs of the Citadel were used to lull GMS to sleep. And then imprison her. The Mask Maker calls the Citadel both church and cage. But it only works as long as the song continues to be sung and so Pharloom's society revolves around keeping the song going forever. 5. The Weavers eventually left Pharloom and control of the Citadel was handed to The Conductors6. We don't know the specifics of what happened in what order but we know the Conductors issued the orders. The Vaultkeepers kept the records. And the Architects created the weapons and robots. Everyone in Pharloom were pressed into slavery using Faith as a tool to make everyone work until they died7. The surgeons of Whiteward attempted to use GMS's Silk to gain eternal life. This is probably where everything went wrong. Silk is woven from Soul. They put GMS's Silk inside bugs, not realizing A. The souls of the dead remain in the Silk they were recycling. And B: GMS can communicate through her Silk. Which is probably what kickstarted The Haunting.
>>724324256>the songs of the Citadel were used to lull GMS to sleepWhat exactly does this mean? There doesn't seem to be anything or anyone playing a song to lull GMS. Is the music in the Cradle diegetic or something?
>>724320048The nature of the haunting meant the difference was irrelevant. Either GMS is controlling everything directly or GMS is controlling the Conductors who are controlling everything.
>>724323361>First game Hollow Knight is too weak but Radiance is cool>Second game Lace is cool but GMS is too weakWhy can't we just have both?
>>724323361Her being underwhelming amounts to one of two things, possibly both: a) needing her to be beatable for people doing the cursed ending, and b) she was created when it was still planned to be DLC so their main methods of testing her was with the Knight's skillset, and she wasn't upgraded when Hornet's moveset was. At the very least they should've given her an extra phase if the snare is active.
>>724324256Here's some fun anecdotes too. We don't know who wrote the laws in place but the treatment of bugs is cartoonishly evil. Getting sick was considered a sin. If you lost your voice and was unable to sing anymore, you were sent to Whiteward to have your soul extracted and put into one of the Architect's automatons. Even in death, you were put to work.Weaver effigies paint the picture that the Weavers were worshipped. But testimonies from Shakra and even the Vaultkeeper describe the Weavers as vicious. And that Pharloom is slightly better now that they're gone.Bilewater wasn't always a swamp. It used to be a clean aquifer. But after the construction of The Citadel, all of the pollution was dumped into what is now Bilewater. Groal the Great and his Stilken buddies now have an eternal hatred for all outsiders and even killed a Snail Shaman that tried to ally with them. That's why Groal can use Vengeful Spirit.
>>724325236You missed that this is a perversion of what the citadel and the whiteward were supposed to do.Being sick wasn't a sin, this was a declaration that no one will fall ill so long as the song is maintained. Ages of GMS fuckery and some nasty people getting in charge saw this changed from toiling in service of the city guarantees freedom from illness, age and death to not being slave for the above reasons is a capital sin.
>>724324907The entire purpose of the pilgrimage is to find those worthy to join the choir (the high halls gauntlet is officially named The Choir) and continuously serenade Silk.The Architect's melody was a failed attempt to have that happen automatically using machines
>>724320127Pale King, go back to bed
>>724324907>There doesn't seem to be anything or anyone playing a song to lull GMSWell that's precisely the problem. GMS can still act in her sleep. Again, we don't know what came first, but the songs of The Citadel eventually stopped. And the Haunting picked up momentum. With the Citadel now silent, Grand Mother Silk began to stir. Her Haunted army left Pharloom to seek out the traitorous Weavers and their descendants. There's a cage in the Act 2 Cradle that describes a bug that was 1/8th Weaver. Who killed like 8 Citadel soldiers before the Weaver was eventually captured and brought to Grand Mother Silk. This is presumably why these bugs went after Hornet. Hornet is at least 1/2 Weaver and so she was hunted by the Citadel to be brought to Grand Mother Silk. Only Hornet escaped at Moss Grotto.
>>724325617Did I miss that? I'll try to search that out. I believe it though. Pharloom in general is kind of fucked up. We all thought Hollownest was bad but Pharloom is an absolute nightmare.
>>724325762>>724324907This is confirmed in Hornet's Hunter Journal. Grand Mother Silk, in Acts 1 and 2, is struggling to wake up now that the song is gone
>>724325119>so their main methods of testing her was with the Knight's skillsetNah there's no wayCan you even imagine how hard Lil' Ghost rapes this boss with Abyss Shriek?
A thing I don't get is why was hornet captured at the beginning of the game. Later in the citadel we learn that many weavers where brought back by force but I just don't understand why and who ordered it
>>724326173>Abyssal Shriek against GMS>Descending Dark against Karmelita and Lost LaceThe Knight shows up in Pharloom and the whole kingdom just explodes. Seriously Hornet has better mobility but The Knight is unfuckwithable in terms of power
>>724326239>first sinner>second sentinel>third ?????????>fourth chorus
>>724325623>Court of Craws is a gauntlet with a name>The Choir isn't This seems like a mistake.
>>724326239GMS silk ordered it
>>724326239It was an official Choral Commandment that sent the choir out to capture her, so it likely came down from the Conductors. Ambiguous whether the Conductors are lucid enough that they're doing this of their own volition hoping to find some way to break GMS' hold on them, or whether their orders are because they're being influenced by GMS. Even Ballador's dialogue is ambiguous because he doesn't recognize Hornet as anything more than a simple pilgrim.
>>724326173>>724326425Knight's damage is overstated due to SS bosses being bulkier and Hornet having more chances to deal damage in general.
>>724323610Radiance was not the final boss of the base ending my guy
oh no it's the genova sephorith discourse all over again
>>724325119>needing her to be beatable for people doing the cursed endingI don't think it was a wise decision for TC to nerf their game's final boss to accommodate players going for an optional ending. It's optional content, after all. Besides, beating GMS with 5-9 masks doesn't sound out of the ordinary in terms of difficulty, especially given TC's track record of locking optional content behind unreasonably tough challenges (the PoH, the White Defender and GPZ refights, the Hall of Gods void statues). I would have appreciated the challenge, especially since it only took me 4 or 5 tries to beat GMS with the twisted bud anyway.>>724326239GMS controls silk. Silk is embedded in all Citadel bugs from the experiments performed in Whiteward. GMS, while still in her sleep, uses silk to control the Citadel bugs, ordering them to trace and capture her progeny.
>>724326239I'm not sure there's anything definitive on the why, but you can make reasonable speculation based on certain bits of information, chiefly how much the journal and Lace/Phantom needolin lore stresses that they needed copious amounts of soul-silk to continue living
there will be a DLC where lace dies from "malnourishment"
>fight Crust King Khann in the memory>start to leave his throne room in the real world>he gets up from his throne and turns black>LOST KING KHANN
>>724326943Khann was kino and I'm all for more of him.
>>724326239>Later in the citadel we learn that many weavers where brought back by force but I just don't understand why and who ordered itGrand Mother Silk dialogue after obtaining the Silk Heart from The Unravelled in Whiteward>...Their voices... Their song...>...Their memory...>...Bind their shells...>...Bind their souls...>...Bind them all...>...Raise them... Up...>...To devote... Eternal...>...One mind... One union...>...They are ours... Bound forever...Basically a Pale Being doing Pale Being things. The bugs of Pharloom. The Weavers. Hornet. They're her's. In the place of The Conductors, Pharloom shall have a goddess! As beautiful and terrible as the dawn! Tempestuous as the sea, and stronger than the foundations of the earth! All shall love her and despair!
>>724327008More evidence that the Pale King is the undisputed goat.
>>724327006People would think of him differently if he started at his final phase's speed. The issue is you likely dumped so much damage into him during his intermission roar that if you RNG into a high uptime pattern, you simply end the fight without noticing. He should've been that fast from the very start.
>>724326239I just figured GMS was upset the weavers abandoned her so now she's out to get them.
>>724327008This is something that would be confirmed by Hornet herself. Pale Beings do not tolerate other powers in their house. Which raises the question: what was up with The Pale King? The Pale King not only reduced his form to that of a regular bug but even allowed both Mantis Village and Deepnest to keep their autonomy. Even the Godseekers were confused on why The Pale King would do that.
>>724327008The post-Widow memory also explicitly says that the Weavers were created so their song could give glory to GMS' light, which is probably why the Weavers rebelled. If they truly were divine children then that would simply be the natural order of things, but being uplifted pharlids meant GMS essentially only uplifted them into servitude for her own benefit.
>>724327304I thought PK turned himself into a bug to escape his death as a Wyrm.
>>724327091Yeah we didn't realize it in Hollow Knight but the Pale King was an anomaly. It's not like he didn't feel it. Hornet admits that a part of her WANTS to conquer and rule Pharloom as it's new godqueen. And that's because she's also a Pale Being through her father, The Pale King. But Hornet was able to push away from that through the influence of her mother Herrah. But what about The Pale King? Why would he defy his own nature and allow the bugs of Hollownest freedom of choice? It's not like anyone could stop him.
>>724327304>>724327564Mantis Village didn't seem to have its own higher being, so as long as they ostensibly bent the knee and didn't make a fuss there was no reason for PK to go after them. And he did try encroaching into Weaver territory but was rejected (Failed Tramway).Pharloom only had GMS but Hallownest had multiple higher beings all in an uneasy truce even before PK showed up. The reason for Hallownest's fall was him encroaching into another higher being's domain and the other getting pissy over it. The alliances with the White Lady and Herrah ended up being out of convenience.
>>724327564>It's not like anyone could stop himThe kingom was lost to a nightlight throwing a tantrum. Suppose that he wasn't diplomatic with the other powers like Unn and they actively fought him too?
>>724327137Doesn't hurt that his theme is extremely high energy with driving percussion and low strings which makes it unique among the music which is usually percussion free and much higher with the string work.
>>724326239The citadel has been hunting down the weavers and their descendants for a long time due to both their betrayal of Pharloom and their ability to create silk naturally, Hornet is half weaver and so a prime target
>>724323425Well if you compare her to the Hollow Knight, which is her closest equivalent as the final boss of the base ending, she's still pretty dull.Her fight by itself is alright, sure it's easy but it's a fun fight anyway, mostly she's brought down by how much of her motivation are vague and sometimes contradictory>Nobody knows why she wants Hornet, Hornet basically assumes it's for her silk, but it's clear in the Bind ending or the true ending that Silk has more than enough of it. Anyway the bugs she sends throughout the game explicitly wants to kill Hornet>But Lace, who is directly opposed to Silk, also wants to kill Hornet>She wakes up when Hornet challenges her for no reason at all, and it's unclear why she even wants her dead or why she was capturing Weaver>Lace somehow think her mother doesn't love her and cursed her to an half-life even though she's actually older than most bugs in PharloomThe closest thing to an unifying theory I can get at is that Silk is just pathologically driven to have children like how the Pale King was driven to create kingdoms and the Radiance was driven to want worship. When her children put her to sleep and ran she was unable to comprehend this and basically decided to kill every Weaver and their descendants for their betrayal ("Better a child spun mad than them"). Lace, however, thought Silk was looking at replacements for her (because Hornet is immortal unlike pure Weavers, she is way more likely to be a threat to Lace's spot) and tried to kill her competition.
>>724326943All that making a boss "lost" does is give them 3 or 4 overused void moves. I don't want any more "lost" bosses. Silksong should have had more bosses in the vein of Hollow Knight's dream refights. Aside from Lace 2 and Lost Lace, the closest thing we got to dream refights were the Clover Dancers and Tormented Trobbio, and the former was inferior to the fight it was based on while the latter was just okay. I can only hope Widow, Phantom, First Sinner, and the memory bosses get something akin to a Tormented Trobbio rematch.
>>724327774He didn't encroach he outright usurped after a crushing victory over the radiance.It's not his failing that one (1) tiny mural was missed during the purge and uncovered by the one group of people who could piece together it's significance after multiple generations.The entire collapse of Hallownest boiled down to bad luck and overlooking a rock.
>>724327774>And he did try encroaching into Weaver territory but was rejected (Failed Tramway).I was always curious about the timeline of this. There was clearly a (partially) amicable relationship between the weavers and the king if he was willing to ask Herrah to become a dreamer and she was willing to do it for a price. Is there anything concrete on what happened? I kinda just assumed>tentative truce between the two kingdoms>infection happens, Pale King asks Herrah to be a dreamer>she accepts and as a gesture of friendship, a tramway begins construction to connect the two kingdoms>Herrah goes to sleep, no longer the ruling voice over deepnest>feral fuckers backstab the tram buildersbut I don't really have anything to go on other than the dream nail dialogue of a dead builder indicating they were betrayed
>>724327774>>724327784Well wasn't Unn sleeping too? The Mantis Tribe doesn't have a Higher Being. Deepnest is strong enough to fight off PK's forces. And the Mushroom's Higher Being knelt willingly. So besides for The Radiance, it seems like the average bug is just stronger in Hollownest. Because Greenpath was caught with its pants down, meaning the only Higher Being The Pale King had to deal with was the Mushrooms
>>724328113first sinner was a widow refight
>>724328332The Weavers had to have at least worked with The Pale King since the bindings on The Hollow Knight use Weaver threads
>>724328113>Winged Nosk>it's not actually an upgraded Nosk, it's upgraded Vengefly Kingnot actually sure if that's better or worse
>>724328332Before Silksong, I assumed Hornet was meant to be a political child to guarantee Hallownest wouldn't encroach on Deepnest again after the Radiance problem was fixed. Being the child of both realms, Hornet would be in a position to put her foot down and tell Hallownest to fuck off with them actually listening to her. Especially after she was trained by the Hive, another neutral party.Of course the Radiance problem wasn't actually fixed but I doubt anyone would've know that at the time.
>>724328432>floating nails instead of bells>diagonal slash>frenzied horizontal slash across the groundI can't believe I never noticed the resemblance. I wouldn't call First Sinner a Widow refight, though. Sinner can bind and use rune rage, and dodging her nails has a different flow than (and is infinitely more fun and fair than) dodging Widow's bells.
>>724328108lace was doing her mother's bidding at first for sure, she seemed to have a change of heart at some point but it was never explicitly mentioned
>>724328789Yeah, that was how I viewed it too. It's a pretty classic shrewd political move straight out of medieval history. Red Memory dialogue either indicates it was never like that, or that Herrah relented because she simply loved her child too much to force her to be a mere tool.
>>724329110I say Lace's change of heart happens after Lace 2. You can find Phantom's Silk ghost telling Lace that Grand Mother Silk spun them to break. The Caretaker(?) remarks that Lace had been running around cutting down enemies of the Citadel. And at Lace 2, when using the Needolin, her internal thoughts are begging Grand Mother Silk to notice her effort>Why her... Mother...>See me cut! See me serve!>A child, too broken...>I will not fade! I will not take!>See me, your knight...>See me, your daughter...After the second fight, her tone changes though>Lace: Hah... aha ha ha ha ha!>Congratulations, spider. Finally, I felt your sting, and you've bared the truth of my pathetic empty shell.>Hornet: You always had the scent, child.>You are no bug. Yours is a life born entirely from thread.>Lace: Life? You're too generous! This weak, wasting existence. This was not life, just a husk shaped to act as a child.>Hornet: Yours was life, pale one. Do not confuse your unique creation with its absence. I have seen others make the same mistake.>Lace: Platitudes, spider? From you? Don't be gross.>Head on. Climb up, up and away. You've earned your audience with the divine.>Face the holy mother who would fashion so cruel and crude a daughter as me.>After all... it's you that she wants... is it not?This is when Lace gave up hope. Phantom's shitty, fatalistic mindset took hold on Lace. This is how she goes from fervently serving Grand Mother Silk, to laughing at her own death so long as she knows her "cruel" mother will die with her
Has anyone ported Hollow Knight's bosses to Silksong yet? I think it'd be cool to fight Pure Vessel with Hornet's moveset.
>>724329750After we get the "Play HK as Hornet and SS as the Knight" mod
>>724329687>The Caretaker(?) remarks that Lace had been running around cutting down enemies of the Citadel.Not quite, and in fact very much the opposite. The Caretaker remarks that Lace had been going around the Citadel, keeping it "clean and quiet." Hence why he was hiding. The only people left in the Citadel besides him are either servants of GMS, or pilgrims looking to join their ranks. In other words, all she's been doing is cutting down residents of the Citadel who in turn have been doing GMS' bidding.I don't think she was ever doing GMS' bidding at any point during the events of the game. She's a bratty child who thinks mommy isn't paying attention to her, so she's breaking all of mommy's things and making a mess hoping mommy will start noticing her, even though that mentality is because she's starved for affection. It's a paradox but one very common to teens, especially girls, who don't have a good relationship with their parents.
>>724329885>Play HK as Hornet and SS as the KnightThat'd introduce a ton of progression issues (clawline for the Knight, shadow gates for Hornet), and I'd rather not bother with anything like that. I just want HK's bosses alone modded into SS.
>>724324907>Is the music in the Cradle diegetic or something?The clockwork tower is a giant music box
>>724330040>comes back from the dead just to spite her mother one last time>accidently dooms the kingdom doing sodamn brat
>>724329242Well the dialogue of The Weavers seem to imply some mistrust of her. They demand that she prove that she's more Weaver than Wyrm. And when speaking to Herrah, Herrah assures her that no matter how the people around her will try to use her, Hornet is her own person and that she shouldn't forget that. Also Vespa, when training Hornet, warns her that she must be strong because people are coming that would try to use the power she naturally has. All that to say even though the Deepnest Spiders and The Weavers were living together, I think Herrah and Vespa recognize Hornet could be used as a political tool, and wanted her to be strong enough to resist that. Unless Vespa somehow knew about Pharloom
Phantom is too sexy of a design to be a dialogue-less one-time event character.
>>724330279Herrah is a pretty intriguing character, I'll give them that. For how economical they've been with direct information about her, it paints an interesting picture.
>>724329687Do we know the exact purpose of the capsules Eva and Phantom were kept in? Are they just life support capsules? I assume they're the same device.
>>724330592>Are they just life support capsules? I assume they're the same device.They seem to be. Interestingly is that both Phantom and Eva both say they were abandoned by their mothers. I say that because even though both Lace and Phantom say they were abandoned, GMS clearly loves Lace, enough to shatter all of Pharloom just to buy her time.
>>724328383>wasn't Unn sleeping too?I have to wonder about this, because wasn't it Unn that popped out of the acid and spit that charm at Ghost?
>>724330324Yes, she needed more. She also had my favorite singing voice.
>>724330529Red Memory was shockingly good. As a matter of fact, I'm surprised how despite Hornet being a PALE BEING and WYRM and a WEAVER and a PRINCESS, she doesn't feel like a Mary Sue at all. I really, really like Hornet's character in both games.
>>724320048NoNoand Noit was all Little Ghost's grand plan from the start
>>724331298Hornet works despite having all the trappings of a mary sue because she isn't overbearing or overconfident, she's polite, well spoken, practical, and courteous until the situation demands that she drop her courtesy. Even then, she maintains her composure>Your threats are worthless, child. If you are my foe, stay your mouth and ready your blade
this thread proves there is nothing more retarded than reading Hollow knight lore
>>724326493The choir has a theme, that balances the whole thing
>>724320048Was getting caught part of her plan?
>>724333605Oh yeah? *farts INSANELY hard*Whatcha think about that, faggot?
>>724330040>Not quite, and in fact very much the opposite. The Caretaker remarks that Lace had been going around the Citadel, keeping it "clean and quiet."Not that anon. But I really just got the impression that Lace was basically doing what the Second Sentinel does. If perhaps more ruthlessly or in a less discerning manner. Still got the impression it was in service of her mother.
Lace is such a shitty """""""""""character""""""""""", genuinely feels like a tumblr fanfic that got shoehorned into the game.
>>724334039She feels like she exists to justify the 6 year old "Lace" by Larkin
>>724325119She's the boss balanced around both casual retards who may reach the end without little to no upgrades, and for speedrunners also set on beating the game with no upgrades at all.I thought it was weird such a big game having a 5 hours achievement was crazy when HK was the same, but after doing it it really clicked, game is designed to for you to gun it to the ending if you want.(Even though you still have to do the gauntlet at The Forum)
This nigga is cooking like Mergwin. Been a long time since I've seen such a quality mod. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WooxgFEcXb4
>>724333432I like that she also takes full responsibility of Pharloom in Act 3. She had no idea the trap would set The Void loose. It was a combination of the Snail Shamans not explaining how the trap works, Lace needing correction, and Grand Mother Silk refusing to go down without a fight. Hornet could lay all this shit at their feet and no one would argue with her. But she's a real princess. Aka one that feels responsible for her kingdom
>>724331298I think it's because we're given a proper explanation of her circunstances. We have all these powerfull factions coalescing into one individual for reasons that make sense. She is not all powerfull just because.Actually reminds me a bit of Paul Atreides from Dune now that I think about it.
Silksong could have done with the Citadel being more of an active threat. You talk with the Seamstress early on and you get the impression the Citadel has agents running around looking for pockets of resistance to squish, but really all there is is Lace (has own agenda) and GMS herself (more of a force of nature than a conscious threat - also seems like she's not really fighting you anyway given the Bell Beast Silk Heart cutscene). In particular it would be nice being able to talk to/fight whoever the fuck gave the orders to travel to Hollownest and kidnap Hornet.
>>724333840Of course.The weavers refused her offer in favor of the Pale King.She had to find out what they told him.
>>724331298>>724331298she puts in the work, is a hero to the common folk, and overcomes an innate biological drive to rule and dominate. not all on her own though, she harbors a strong love from her parents and obviously wants to carry out their wishes above all. beautiful character honestly
>>724335974Well congratulations, you got yourselves caught. What's the next step of your master plan?
>>724335410i better be able to spam>NIGERU?
I like Hornet, but I also think she's a psychopath of sorts, considering she killed four bystanders for their hearts, one of which she displays in her home.Then again, this may just be a normal, even expected, aspect of bug society in general, considering all the murdering going on anyway.
>>724336514Nyleth and Khann were already dead and gone. Karmelita is on the ropes and (kinda sorta) gives permission if it can be taken.Green Prince is really the outlier. You're meant to make the connection that he wanted to die while dancing with his lover one last time but it's never plainly made clear so the whole thing does feel a bit psychopathic on Hornet's part.
>>724336514Well that was more means to an end, assuming you stopped at 3. The Snail Shamans need 3 hearts to stop the black threads from ripping Pharloom apart. Not very nice but then neither is the apocalypse
>>724336514>bystandersKarmelita wanted to die, Nyleth and Khann were dead already.But yes, she's a bit psychopathic for what she does to the Green Prince.
>>724335706You forget Widow that is the main boss of Act 1.
I'll forever be mad that Team Cherry had cut out the ending where Hornet and Grand Mother Silk merged together into a new being. To me this is the Ultimate Yuri Pairing of the game and is the only way to make GMS chill, have a different perspective on things and forever have another equal person by her side for eternity.
>>724336906Calm down tranny.
>>724336906Can't see GMS ever being chill.
>>724328817>I can't believe I never noticed the resemblanceThey both go BBLLLLEEAAARGGHHH
so act 3 ending makes dream no more the canonical ending of HK?
>>724329687I thought it was the other way around, that it was Lace talking to Phantom.
>>724335706There's Fourth Chorus as well, but Seamstress already dealt with it (or so she thought)
>>724337238I think Embrace the Void and Dream No More are somehow both canon.>little ghost takes the shape of both the shade lord from EtV and his regular shade self from DNM>all of the siblings as featured in DNM pop up>he doesn't seem to have complete control of the void as EtV would suggest, but is an extremely powerful entity>no information on hollow knight's shade, which we know exists in DNM but wouldn't exist if EtV>some of hornet's lines indicate she knows what happened to little ghost, hinting DNM because EtV events happened away from her while she was waiting at the black egg and left no traceThere's some version of events where he did godhome or enough of it to become the shade lord, but not to the extent of destroying radiance or having void go nuts, and then he goes and fights the Hollow Knight. IDK. It's weird.People point to the everbloom but that's a red herring. Hornet would already know about them regardless of their use in EtV and again, she was at the black egg when the godhome ending happens so she wouldn't even witness the flower negating the fallout from little ghost's ascension.
>>724336939NO. I'll forever suffer from Hornet x GMS Yuri drought and Team Cherry fucking up the latter's Final Boss power scaling. I guess I just have to settle for GMS strangling the hell out of Lace and The First Sinner to make my self feel better.
>>724336425Fuck shit up
>>724338402You'll find lots of fanfics about it on Tumblr.
>>724320048>Our lore is so hecking deap and mysterious, you have to read 100 different item descriptions, and bestiary logs before you can kinda-sorta understand what's happening. Leaving you with more questions than answers.This shit is too tiresome to care about. I can't be bothered to assemble the story like a jigsaw puzzle, and then still have missing pieces. Fuck this style of storytelling. It's gay and lame and cancer and aids.
>>724338715It's not that deep, it's just tidbits of fun facts essentially for people who want to read, no need to read anything so you're not missing out even if you can only read books for young children
>>724338583Nope. No stories about these two yet....
>>724338715the main plot is really simplefirst game>infection awakens>hero comes back>break the seal to the source>you either contain it with your own body or with help from others>endsecond game>heroine gets kidnapped into another kingdom>ascends while searching for the ones that kidnapped her>discovers they are all controlled by silk goddess and she is the real enemy>defeat/merge with silk goddess >or be convinced that you can trap her, but instead fall into the trap of a third party and fuck over the kingdom>go into the void to unfuck the kingdomthe rest of the lore is just details
>>724327564>Why would he defy his own nature and allow the bugs of Hollownest freedom of choice?Maybe his arrival in Hallownest (in his wyrm form) is him escaping the downfall of his first kingdom, one where he followed his nature and things did not work out. And then in Hallownest he decided to try something completely new.
does "before the mask" imply Dreamers were given specific masks for their duty?
>>724341394Seems like it, which is why Hornet recognized Quirrel's mask in the prequel comic.
>>724341394It seems so. Judging by the red memory segment it also seems the mask retroactively overwrote any instance of Herra's face, even in Hornet's memory.
>>724338086>>some of hornet's lines indicate she knows what happened to little ghost, hinting DNM because EtV events happened away from her while she was waiting at the black egg and left no traceThis can also be explained by some entities, Hornet included, being aware of what's going on in Godhome.>...Do they watch us struggle?..>Do you haunt my dreams... Or I yours?>Little Ghost... What dreams we share...
Erm, so who do we blame for the polluted state of fartloom? Grandma, weavers or conductors? I know its in a pale beings nature to dominate over all. But Grandma doesn't seem like the ruling type like the pale king was, even though she's called a monarch. She seems to be only interested in daughters for some reason.
>>724320048Hot take: out of weavers and Conductors, she's by far the best choice and it's not close
>>724322953Only retards need youtube e-celebs to explain the lore to them in games like this. There's nothing some youtuber should be able to tell you that you didn't know if you paid attention while playing the game.
>>724326679Not him but posts like this contribute nothing except showing off your annoying autism.
>>724327774>>724328332I thought the trams were built by the older, void-worshiping nation?The Stag-ways were the method of transport for Hallownest, built up by the Pale King. Furthermore, I thought that the Weavers of the Distant Village were on neutral or positive terms with the rest of the kingdom. That's why the Stag-way station was built and is still functional. The Weavers just happened to deeply prefer their privacy, and that they didn't follow the same religion as everyone else.The Mantis tribe were at war with the non-sapient bugs of Deepnest; with all the mindless and aggressive little burrowing worms that attack everything. Not at war with the spider people.I think it's also pretty badass that the Mantis tribe were able to ignore the infection because they were purely built different.
>>724326239It could have been GMS issuing the orders through the conductors to bring weavers back for vengeance, or my pet theory: the conductors were independently dragging weavers back for a long time before things really fell apart because they saw their situation was rapidly deteriorating as GMS began to wake up and they wanted weavers to try and fix things
>>724330324https://youtu.be/WooxgFEcXb4?si=_YzUXV2nV0iILsr0
>>724320048Looking at GMS and Greyroot, I can only imagine what kind of disaster White Lady would bring upon Hallownest if she didn't have a Pale husband to drain daily.
>>724336514She recognizes they're necessary sacrifices. She's exactly like her father. Read the conversation she has with Gilly in act 3 where they talk about what Hornet did to Karmelita. Tell me you don't see Pale King justifying himself in the same way. Also, the way Gilly responds is pretty telling>I'll wish you success in your grand task, miss, but forgive me my sadness for knowing the cruel cost... At least Pale King kept the sacrifices within his circle, and also doesn't put their organs on display..
>>724336906>>724336981It's funny that the two women deities are massive cunts, whilst the male one was a based bro, and only did horrible things when he was backed into a corner.
>>724342025Weavers/Conductors, the weavers set up the system of the chorus to put GMS to sleep and the pollution from that blighted all the maggot zones, conductors perpetuated the system
>>724326452Third Pinstress, the final boss of the first DLC.
>>724342874The conductors always came across as bureaucrats who endlessly perpetuate a system someone else created without ever truly knowing or understanding why, only that the system must continue.
>>724323361She needs to be somewhat easy because it's an achievement to beat her without healing.I agree though. I noticed with Silksong that if a fight didn't seem "that bad", it was always because the fight would get iterated on or evolve so it did become a slog. The first heavy in High Halls and Great Conchflies are good examples. With Silk though- that never really came. I fully expected for the last phase of Lost Lace that we'd be fighting both.
I'm a massive retard, why did the shamans who tricked me suddenly start helping me instead
>>724336981>FUCK your FATHER and FUCK YOUNIGGA YOU'RE PHONE
>>724343395I'm so ready for Void Mother Silk dlc
>>724343408they thought the trap would just banish her and that would be the end of it, but they realized they fucked up bigly
>>724342380>I thought the trams were built by the older, void-worshiping nation?>The Stag-ways were the method of transport for Hallownest, built up by the Pale King.No, the trams were built by the Pale King, and acted as VIP transport between important places in Hallownest, like going from the White Palace to Kingdom's Edge, or from the Crossroads to the Resting Grounds. Remember: you get the pass at the Failed Tramway that was being built as a sign of goodwill and in an attempt to further integrate Deepnest as part of the rest of the kingdom, but fell apart as tram workers were attacked by mindless bugs.The Last Stag complains about and derides them, and it's implied that something else is going on given that the Pale King chose to close away the Stagway Station close to the Palace and instead opts to use the Tram System.
>>724343408They were also retards and didn't know it'd fuck everything up
I want these cunts dead. Surely there will be an opportunity to kill them, right?
>>724322191
>>724343583>>724343623They didn't know Lace would throw herself in the void as well because Hornet told the lead shaman that Lace was dead. How was he supposed to know Hornet was wrong?
>>724327304I'm more confused on the fact that Hallownest had two pale beings as king and queen, living together. Silksong's mask maker directly says that when two higher beings are in the same territory, there tends to be a massive fight and everyone begins holding their breath until that inevitably happens. Like how he was right when Hornet and GMS would fight. I'd argue White Lady is even more odd than the pale king to be honest
>>724343769They sacrifice themselves to help Hornet get the Everbloom from her memories
>>724343769In a manner of speaking>>724343813she just wants to breed and he was willing to give her a million kids
>>724343895oh shit I didn't realize that
>>724320048>Grand Mother Silk is a god>she created Weavers because she had an impulse to be a mother>Weavers are dicks and put her to sleep so they could be in charge instead of being her devotees>Built a society designed entirely around perpetuating the lullaby that keeps her asleep, with the Conductors running the show for them>Eventually GMS starts stirring because she's a god and the Weavers aren't quite as hot as they think they are>Weavers collectively decide to fuck off before SHTF, leave the Conductors running things in their absence>Conductors originally agree because now they're gonna be the actual power rather than just figurehead employees>Realize too late they have a wolf by the ears and they can't control GMS, but they have to desperately perpetuate the song to keep her from rousing entirely>Meanwhile GMS has been possessing bugs in her dreaming state to do her bidding>they create a new daughter for her since her original daughters turned out to be cunts>compels bugs to bring her all of the descendant Weavers who fled her because nobody walks away from mama>Hornet is one such descendant who is captured>GMS' new daughter gets salty that mom doesn't love her enough and wants her old daughters back>she frees Hornet because she doesn't want GMS to get her way>Wake up in Moss Grotto
>>724343813The answer seems to be that they were simply just different. Pale King was the absolute top dog, one of the most powerful gods that ever lived, and was just really chill about everything. The White Lady is also a lot more passive by nature, and if Greyroot is of any relation, it might just be a throughline in Higher Beings of plant-based higher beings (after all, Greyroot does not rape you without your consent). His only problem is that he chose to set up shop in the one place where there was another elder god that, while not being stronger than him, was strong enough to piss in his cornflakes
I must say I really like the narrative device of Hornet mirroring her father and his actions during Hallownest's past, but I feel like this flies over most people's head and they are instead driven to think Hornet "overcoming her instincts" (and other lines such as what she tells Green Prince before killing him, although that part is kind of poorly written as a whole) is all about rejecting that part of her heritage, even if she may have been speaking in general. Worth noting the first ending is called Weaver Queen and during the Red Memory we are shown the Deepnest Weavers were pressuring her into becoming their queen since she was a child.
>>724344193>Meanwhile GMS has been possessing bugs in her dreaming state to do her bidding>they create a new daughter for her since her original daughters turned out to be cuntsGMS makes two daughters. The first one lacks a Silk Heart and was created using Spider Runes, so she's doomed to slowly fray away and die. The second daughter was given a Silk Heart so she can regenerate her silk and recover from injury. Still frail as silk, but silk in Hollow Knight is unironically really, really fucking strong so I still don't get what the fuck Lace's problem is. Fucking brat.
>>724344425Phantom should have been Hornet's main rival instead of Lace, or just combine the two characters into one. I think it's a shame Phantom ends up having so little presence, because the Mist and her fight were some of the best parts of the game for me.
>>724344425I didn't include Phantom in the narrative here because Phantom is clearly a Lace prototype that GMS decided she didn't want since it didn't fully work out. She's the silk equivalent of Broken Vessel, she's a failed attempt at creating something and we're seeing the Refuse of Its Creation for Lace. Lace was the end result, Phantom was the playable alpha build.
>>724344313He's chiller than most gods, but he still was territorial with Radiance. Now i'm wondering, why Radiance and not Unn or the White Lady? They're all 'lights' in their own right, aren't they? >No blazing kin. Only one light shall shine against the dark.
>>724343813That's because the pale king knew how to please his wife
>>724344661I don't think GMS intentionally abandoned Phantom. The consistent thread among all of her daughters is that they betray and abandon GMS, not the other way around. If anything, GMS's inability to mend and improve Phantom is why Phantom left GMS to brood and waste away in the depths of the Citadel. It was more of a case of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KcJs4qJPQ_M but GMS fucks off to be depressed for the rest of her life instead of killing GMS.
>>724344649>>724344661phantom is eva
>>724344770>He's chiller than most godsIt's easy to be magnanimous in victory, he was a beloved ruler with a kingdom under his thrall and no pale beings to challenge him (the only one of consequence was White Lady and he was nailing her). As soon as a pale being that was actually a threat to him arose, it was literally>no cost too greatand he had 30,000 kids and tossed them into a radioactive abyss to see which one was strong enough to climb out on the fumes of sheer spite, just so it could be made to live a joyless, loveless, emotionless life as a magic mason jar tied up inside a giant easter egg.
>>724344425>>724344649>>724344661How come Phantom tolerates being stuck doing janny duty in the garbage disposal facility? The hunter's journal entry mentions that Phantom is happy to go out fighting instead of fading away, so why did she simply accept working in the Exhaust Organ instead of rebelling or seeking someone to die fighting against?
>>724330529Herrah might be alive. Hollow knight didn't need to kill the dreamers for the canon Ending
>>724344905You might be right, there is the little dialogue bit about "better a child spun frail than none", in either case it sort of amounts to the same thing, which is that she made Lace because Phantom didn't work out. Just like she made Phantom because the Weavers didn't work out.
>>724325762considering Hornet is the closest to a pure Weaver and also a half-Wyrm I'm surprised the Citadel army didn't go after her sooner
>>724344992Phantom resigns herself to her fate, but it's because of Phantom that Lace becomes terrified of becoming (seemingly) abandoned.
>>724320048finished act 3 todayhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSqJzwmkjl8dont know if this is contrarian but nothing after the Abyss climb was cool. the climb was cool as fuck but everything after it just made me wish the game would end already
I hate how no character talks of Hornet's wyrm side. Only her weaver and pale being sides. I know this is a game about her weaver side, and wyrms are basically extinct but still not even a crumb. Only until the very end, mister mushroom is the only one who acknowledges it which only made me want information even more
>>724345135Depends on how far away Hollownest is. If Hollownest is very far away from Pharloom then that's probably why it took so long for the Citadel bugs to track her down
>>724344992>Working in the Exhaust Organis she working? It more seems like she's doing a very obvious Phantom of the Opera, hiding in the shadows being brooding and spooky. It seems like building a piano keyboard into your city's radiator and playing tunes on it isn't exactly doing labor.
>>724345369Her pale being side IS her Wyrm side. She's a child of Weaver and Wyrm. Weavers are not pale beings.
>>724345189red memory was great come on now
>>724345369I thought it was especially poignant that Mister Mushroom exclusively refers to Hornet as Wyrm Child and really nothing else.
>>724345403The vents stop after she dies, in addition to the mist abating. Perhaps it's unintentional, but it seems her playing the organ is actually powering the contraption. Perhaps her love of music was used to trick her into doing something useful.
>>724345403It's called the Exhaust Organ for a reason, the organ controls the exhaust ventilation for the entire Citadel. Which is why a) The Mist exists, because it's all that silk in the air created silk-soul Wraiths, and b) why there's a bunch of air vents in the Citadel and Underworks that stop working when you beat Phantom, because she's no longer operating them.
>>724345518memberberry
>>724345495I don't think all wyrms are pale beings. Otherwise 'kingdom of the white wyrm' would not really narrow anything down. I think they're a species like Roots, with some normal and some pale.
>>724345667ok I only played hollow knight for a couple hours desu
>>724345591>>724345561I know that, what I'm saying is, is that a JOB? Do they need someone to manually vent the silk gas? If Phantom wasn't doing it, would they send some Loam ass motherfucker down there to press the buttons all day? It doesn't seem like anything breaks as a result of the vents NOT billowing random blasts of boiling hot silk dust.
>>724345369My jaw dropped when Mr Mushroom implied that Hornet will one day gain the ability to see through time like the Pale King could
>>724345530Yeah, I wonder why though. What does he see in her? And this is also the second time Mister mushroom acknowledges wyrms. Wonder if there's some history between them and him, or if its just coincidence. Maybe because wyrms create alot of kingdoms
>>724345973Pale King turns out was absolutely right and pretty much the setting equivalent of pic related.
>>724345973That's the explanation for respawns. It's a limited precognition of a possible failure that Hornet sees before she wakes up.>>724346013Hornet talks to him as if they've spoken before, so yeah there's history.
So here's a question: what exactly is The Song?There's this vague allegorical sense that everything in Pharloom keeps a song going that holds GMS asleep, but like, is there an actual machine that plays music for her constantly to keep her slumbering? Do people actually take shifts singing? Is the idea of a "song" just a metaphor for whatever process holds her in slumber? GMS seems to imply that she needs a being of silk to "wish her waking"... does Hornet do that? Does accessing the Cradle somehow stop the song? Does anything we do in the game stop the song?It's not clear why she wakes up.
>>724345369In fairness, she's not talking about it, and few people would know to begin with
>>724346274>Do people actually take shifts singing?It's this. They attempted to replace it with machines but it never worked out and the Choir ceased singing before then. The Citadel of Song once was famous for being ceaseless, neverending, but in its current state it is deafeningly quiet and devoid of song.
>>724346274The Conductor says that The Song was already silent before Hornet arrived, which is why the Haunting happened and GMS is starting to wake up. It just takes a while.
On the topic of Mister Mushroom, his dialogue in Deepnest is interesting in hindsight:>...The dead can't make use of wealth in any case. What would they spend it on?>Yes, a big brood like that. They need food. And shelter. And toys.>If you keep some for yourself... Well, I think you deserve it. Yes...I know it's a reference to another pre-HK TC game, but it's also fitting in Deepnest specifically after seeing how gilded and corrupt the Citadel became.
>>724346414>>724346274maybe this is an allegory for AI
>>724345973>speaking directly to Hornet/the Wyrm child>"When your actions might hail me so again?"Threequel?
>>724346686Not everything is an allegory or metaphor pertaining the modern era, anon.
>>724346706You know, as much as Hornet seemed against the idea, after all the events of the game and Mr. Mushroom's dialogue, I can actually see her settling into the role of Queen. One who rules out of benevolence rather than falling into the domineering behaviour of higher beings, or the revenge fantasy the Weavers wanted for her.
>>724346804
Well anons, that's it, I've reached 100% in Steel Soul.>16 hours in took me about 3 or 4 hours to get through Act 3>Did Karmelita first since she's the pleb filter of this act and it's a reallt fun fight>Did Coral Tower next, got it in my third try (and I probably would've gotten to at least to the shortcut on my first try but the game crashed out near the end of the third arena)>Didn't feel like risking it with Seth so I just did Verdania and cleared the whole thing in 3 tries or so, first tried the DancersThen it was just a matter of clearing out the remaining quests that would give me tools like Pinstress and Second Sentinel, and half a hour of farming 2000 rosaries to buy the restNow I've got the Everbloom and at the bench in the Abyss before Lace. I'm probably going to practice her in my regular save so I can reliably kill her. I wish there was a way to just get free shards in the Abyss to just have fun playing with different builds against her.
>>724346274it's literal and serious business
So what the FUCK is it? Only thing I can add after having played Silksong is that it somewhat reminds me of the chapel corpses from which Hornet obtains the different crests, but this thing is protected by a seal of binding.
>>724347198>sing off-key once>get your fucking vocal cords ripped outJesus. The Choir in its heyday must've been composed entirely of Fletchers.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBvBu5ErSSo
>>724347338My ancestor <3
>>724347338I forget where that is
>>724347338if we're using filename data, it's a container for somethingmaybe void since we know weavers touched the stuff
The last silksong thread died and this one appeared instantly, what does that says about our society?Any tips for Bell eater in Steel Soul? He's the only boss of act 3 I can't beat first try now :( I don't want to lose 12 hours of my save file
>>724320048She's just another "WoOoOoOoO UNKNOWABLE HORROOOOOR"
>>724347747Grab the Voltvessels from Memorium if you haven't already.
>lifeblood area still in the game map by looks of the august 2025 timeline>release date is barely a month later>its goneWhere did it go?
>>724347881Dlc, maybe we fight Promised Addicted Zango or some shit like that
I love the slab, an institutionalised misery system is fascinating in its perversity >>724347747voltvessels as the other saidbe aware you can strike away the bouncing bombs use reaper if you're not confident in your dodging
>>724347747Stay close to the assThe anus is angled slightly to the side where it will start pooping when it pops up.So it's just>Get below the ass>Jump, hit, dash-dash-dash to dodge, hit againThe boomerang works wonder in this fight as the butthole is very sensitive to it, as well as any tool you can use to knock the bombs away (like the threefold pins)Real pro type: never use boomerang to knock off projectile if you can help it
>>724347792The only unknowable horror in this series is this guy, which is ironic considering we've been playing as him for the entirety of the first game.
>>724347363Don't forget: dying is a sin. No I'm not exaggerating. Dying is considered a sin in Pharloom.
>>724347747rune rage and volt vessels (the spear mode can hit both portions at the same time for double damage)you'll kill him before he kills you even if you tank hits every time he pops out
>>724347338It's "The Beast's Den thing"This concept sketch has something pouring out of the mouth, so it's supposed to store and release some fluid and beyond that we just don't know.
>>724348171https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2isI97CIxhYThey're not wrong.
>>724348394Well if you're voice grows hoarse from singing all day, every day, you could be selected to have your soul ripped out of your body and the resulting Lumafly to be used as a lamp. Or to be put in a robot.
Why does horny blame GMS for verdania's downfall when it was wholly the conductors fault. Only the conductors or even weavers would do something as useless as putting someone's soul into two robots. And also why did she weirdly tell him that his kingdoms downfall was inevitable because her kind just destroy everything. The only destruction she saw in her home was from the radiance and she wasn't even a pale being. People criticize her actions with the green prince but her dialogue with him is just as weird in more ways than one
>>724348681
>>724348171>so many choristers died that they needed to build the Cauldron and Exhaust Organ as one massive cremation furnace
>>724345696We know this is fact. In Hollow Knight Dung Defender mentions "the battle of the Black Wyrm", already confirming not all Wyrms are pale beings.
>Hornet is the in-universe equivalent of a half-mage, half-dragon deity
>>724345136Is there some significance that Phantom in the mirror (window?) is reminiscent of Eva in her shell, or am I reading too much into it?
>>724349115Kind of rad.
>>724348887God that's so fucked. Spending eternity as a lightbulb.
>>724349471Likely the same suspension tech to preserve silk entities. Eva can't leave hers without immediately dissipating whereas Phantom's is designed to preserve her whenever she isn't active.
>>724349471A lot of people have called it a mirror. But I genuinely think it's a tube/capsule case similar to that of Eva's. Maybe Phantom resided inside of it in an attempt to slow or stave off their silk fading.
Wait so what happened to the rest of the weavers that were taken in? Were they eaten by GMS? Did Lace kill them all?
>>724349689They were likely milked to death. Or in the case of Widow. Enslaved and made to spread the haunting.
>>724349613that's why i smash every light i passit might make my playthroughs longer, but nobody deserves that fate
>>724345135To be fair...Hallownest was going through its own bullshit while Hornet was growing up. Scouts from Pharloom could have been killed off by either Deepnest remaining weavers trying to protect Hornet, or the infected. It makes sense that these guys only caught Hornet once both of those things were gone.
>>724349689Based on the lore notes in the Cradle, we only know of one part-Weaver that was successfully captured, a 1/4 Weaver from the City of Steel who was "staked to service." My guess is that's Styx. The rest were either already dying or were mortally wounded in the process of capturing them.
>>724349925pretty sure it's Widow
>>724348898>so many bodies that not only is there not enough of them to fit into the crematorium, they're actually piled up to the ceiling
>>724348168No... there is another...
>>724350037Widow is full-blooded Weaver who stayed loyal to GMS and was bound by the other Weavers for it. The game is abundantly clear about that.
>>724350037widow calls herself a First child so she's pure first gen weaver. So that can't be her
>>724350057Speaking of that area, did they change the jump to get in? I used to be able to consistently get there in act 2 with double jump into clawline but I can't seem to do it anymore. I had to wait until silk soar to get in on my last playthrough when that's never been the case before.Did they change anything with it or did I just suddenly stop being able to do a jump I've consistently done dozens of times before?
it's funny how every random NPC has a song ready to go for when hornet comes along and starts playing the needolineven the fuckin runt dude in act 3 bilewater has a song to sing and that dude has been alive for like 5 minutes
>>724350436I don't know. I only recently found it. That'd be weird if they did.
>>724346456is this really the reasoning for the big happening?
>>724350661The implication is that it's involuntary and it's how the Weavers are able to seduce other bugs into their service. Once you hear the Weaver's song, your body becomes their instrument. There's nothing you can do. It's why the bugs of Nameless Town immediately run away when you play the Needolin and why Karmelita protected the Skarr by singing her own song
>>724350661Whenever Hornet uses the Needolin, she's forcing them to sing their thoughts and minds. It's why Lace stands up straight and looks so uncomfortable when you play it at her.
>>724320048>retard failed to understand the storySpoon feeding the baby, I guess>GMS uplift random spider looking bug>GMS treats weavers as divine offspring but since GMS is still a pale being and a bitch, she demands them to love her back>weavers resist because they are effectively imprisoned and enslaved by GMS>weavers create an entire system made just to capture GMS into an eternal sleep but it requires the entire citadel to do so>weavers set the conductors and the elite of pharloon for this>weavers flee the fuck away from pharloon>conductors don't know what to do and they continue to keep GMS asleep>conductors set an oppressive system made just for this >also no more weavers, which mean no more silk, which the conductors learned could be used to extend a bug life if injected into their shells>conductors create an entire system designed to catch any scrap of silk for later use>since the citadel requires many bugs to keep the task, they create ways to get fresh water and food for all the workers. But this ends up contaminating entire kingdoms and shit, also the food was literally just stinky roach bugs and designate an entire system just to get this meager shitty meal>legends of endless food and fresh water spread far and wide and the conductors set ways for the pilgrims to earn their way into the citadel but instead they are being judged or end up working until they die in the insides of the citadel machinery>despite all of this in an attempt not only to keep GMS at bay, but also to keep the status quo, GMS managed to get some control and wake up a bit>since all bugs injected silk to live basically eternal, they were easily controller by GMS>GMS task the bugs to catch any weaver or weaver related bug for the only reason that she was being lonely and wanted someone to call her motherGMS isn't evil, she just have baby fever. Everything would have been solved if the pale king shared his bug dick more often
>>724349689Some weavers willingly returned, based on the description of the Weaversong charm from Hollow Knight.>Silken charm containing a song of farewell, left by the Weavers who departed Hallownest for their old home.What were they thinking?
>>724350957Imagine if GMS was in Hallownest instead of White Lady. She'd probably throw a massive shitfit and cause a civil war against him for even suggesting to sacrifice a single baby.
>>724351131Jesus fuck why? Grand Mother Silk isn't going to chill out just because they took a sabbatical and they know that
>>724351198It might not even be necessary. Unlike The Pale King, Grand Mother Silk might actually be able to fight The Radiance. There's a lot of overlap between The Infection and The Haunting, Grand Mother Silk might be able to rip The Radiance apart before The Infection ever got off the ground.
>>724351131>What were they thinking?>Maybe... Mom won't eat us if we apologize :D????And then they had every last strand of silk taken out of them and were devoured by GMS.
>>724351347Wrong
>>724351131>"Oh shit, this void stuff might work for us."And then it didn't.
>>724351347You are forgetting the radiance exits outside of the physical and thus can't be pulled down by physical silk strings
>>724351347Unless you can reach the dream realm, you're not winningmaybe infection and haunting can wrestle for control but that's not a solution
>>724351347Oh god, you're right. Especially if she's able to preemptively infect everyone in Hallownest with silk. It'd be super easy to make everyone forcibly forget about the Radiance if she just makes them feel only pure adulation and joy being connected to her only. Think the outcome would be the same though; Pale King's going to lock himself in his palace because GMS would be going turboschizo outside looking for anyone not connected to her to personally mindrape until they're nothing more than a mindless doll.
>>724351535>>724351481The Infection enslaves your thoughts and dreams to The Radiance's control. It's gonna be hard for her to do that if every thought and dream already belongs to Grand Mother Silk
>>724351535The haunting is a complete physical "illness" that doesn't show physically. Meanwhile the infection is a completely mental or metaphysical contamination that shows itself as a physical malaise.Funny how they seem to be inverted.Wouldn't be surprised that both can coexist.
>>724351437>And then it didn't.thats because they havent tried the real void stuff
>>724350661They don't prepare the songs in advance. Needolin forces them to sing.
>>724351761>Wouldn't be surprised that both can coexist.Imagine getting infected with the Infection, Haunting, and Lifeblood all at the same time.
>>724351913Bug aids
>>724351878can't wait for the steelfags to come and impose their will due to the void outbreak and then have everything go extremely wrong when they lose control
>>724351913I would just jump into the nearest spike trap
>>724351913It's interesting that lifeblood can get infected, but we haven't seen it haunted or voided.
Imagine the song stonks if the citadel had caught wind of Plasmium
>>724320048She had a woman moment then her children had women moments then she had a full on god-melty and her kids fled
>>724324256>The Weavers eventually left Pharloomwasn't there a purge too?
>>724352134Pharloom is unironically fucked. Right when Sherma and the bugs of the Citadel start rebuilding, they'll immediately get overrun by Lifeblood. Think everyone's leaving Pharloom whether they want to or not shortly after the end of the game. No fucking way it's at all safe to rebuild after everything that's occurred.
>>724351913FUCK No!
>>724326519I figured the conductors were capturing weavers in a last attempt to control GMS and by the time the team sent to get hornet returned the haunting had already taken over the place
>>724348130>anus*cloaca
>>724352284The thing is both The Haunting and the Lifeblood infection started with the same goal: attempting to invent eternal life. Why do they keep doing it?
>>724352619It's vague enough that what you said is a possibility. But it could also be possible that it was all directed by GMS to bring fresh Weaver silk for her daughters, which would fit with Lace's insecurities and not realizing that mommy actually cared about her. Or GMS wanted to capture all the Weaver descendants for revenge to mirror Hornet's initial mission of revenge, and seeing Hornet try to save Lace changed her heart.
>>724352954speaking of lace, why was that bitch in the exhaust organ seemly exiled? was she imperfect in some way so GMS locked her away?
>>724350869Why would hornet would ever use the needolin on bugs then that's pretty fucked up
>>724353164Working on their organ. Weirdly though, Phantom is supposed to be broken and brittle and yet she's greying from age and is peerless with a Pin.What did Lace and Phantom want? To be Higher Beings? They're both better than everyone else.
>>724353164Was there ever any verification that Phantom was exiled? She could be there of her own free will.
>>724347198See that doesn't read as literal to me. "Sin of dissonance" is just not fitting in with society. Remember this is a culture that measures quantities of rock and fabric in musical time ("send four measures, seven beats smokerock"), the idea that they'd use musical concepts to refer to socioeconomic concepts just feels right.
>>724353371Because she's part higher being and she feels like it, same with everything else she does.
>>724353371The will to dominate never truly goes away>>724327564
>>724353506
Predict the Steelfaggot masters. Good, bad, trying their best like Pale King? Yes they enslave all types of bugs and compress them, including higher beings but PK has a baby pit so you never really know
>>724335478seeing how fucked up pharloom became and all the dead bugs made me feel guilty for setting the trap too.
>>724353608I see a lot of people thinking her rejecting pharloom queen mantle means she's cured of that urge. That's something she's gonna be fighting for the rest of her life
>>724344979You're also forgetting the guilt of doing that to his own kids literally killed him.
>>724345973What the fuck even is Mr Mushroom.
>>724353939william self insert. Have you seen his twitter? Real life mister mushroom
>>724353685>Predict the Steelfaggot masters.True Neutral obsessed with their own preservation as everything falls apart around them. They study fallen kingdoms without aiding them solely to study potential threats and devise countermeasures.This is why the third game will be Hollow Knight himself wrecking shit in the City of Steel. The common thread between Hallownest and Pharloom is the Abyss, and if Hollow Knight still lives then he is what the steel masters would deem the biggest threat since the Abyss itself can be sealed, plus he could want revenge himself seeing the Steel masters as willing to let entire kingdoms die without lifting a finger..
>>724353939A mushroom who appears at the fall of kingdoms to witness their end
>>724350957Still not convinced of the>Conductors Did Ittheory. The Weavers created the oppressive system, it was a society of slavery to the song. The only thing we can be pretty sure the Conductors were directly responsible for was implementing silk recycling/dredging to keep silk supplies going once the Weavers left, and even that's assuming the Weavers didn't implement the practice themselves just to not have as much time and energy spent making silk for everyone.
>>724354136The last conductor had the run harp that explains the weavers set it all up, so they at least kept the bullshit system running knowing full well it was bullshit
damn you niggers know a lot about the lore and shit, I just read a bunch of entries and minded my own business until I beat GMS. Didn't even know the weavers were rulers at some point, I thought they were slaves everyone hated.
>>724354103>>724354115>Steel servants>Mr. Mushroom>Nightmare HeartSure are a lot of assholes just circling around waiting for kingdoms to die.
>>724351131I'm sure they were fine and GMS welcomed them home warmly.
>>724354264It's a very lucrative business.
>>724354208>damn you niggers know a lot about the lore and shitmost of it is just making headcanon assumption, the game is intentionally designed vaguely to facilitate that
>>724354191Oh, that's true for sure. After the Weavers fucked off, the Conductors perpetuated the system as long as they could, because the alternative was letting an extremely pissy GMS wake up and possess them all to bring back the Weavers.It seems like by the end the last of the Conductors were basically allowing the Haunting to persist in some measure without resistance in order to mollify GMS, and doing "extend and pretend" as long as they could while their society slowly crumbled. Ballador is still alive but on only the most meager ration of Silk to keep him going. Most of the bugs of the Citadel have become haunted but some pilgrims are still making the trek.
>>724354208>Didn't even know the weavers were rulers at some point, I thought they were slaves everyone hated.Anon, at the gigantic Weaver graves where you bind your powers from dead Weavers of ages past, you routinely find words of worship placed at their feet. The Weavers were revered as essentially gods in their time, begged for blessing.
>>724354208thanks to several anons in the first threads after release where they ended up in the middle of buttfuck nowhere posting their screenshots of recontextualizing dialogue asking "ermmm what does this mean?"
>>724353593nice catch
>>724353939I don't know but what's really messed up is Mr Mushroom implies he not only knows of the existence of time travel but he's not opposed to the idea of creating paradoxes
>>724331012Is Phantom just the ghost of Eva somehow?
>>7243242561. there were a lot of higher (medium?) beings already in pharloom with their own families, GMS just conquered or defeated them all before calling out to unaffiliated bugs to join her, which seems to be a unique nature to pale beings 2. it's actually completely ambiguous when and by who FS was locked upbecause the rest of the weavers only found out they were adopted AFTER they had roofied GMS and stolen her throneeither GMS secretly locked her up very early into Pharloom's existence or the weavers locked her up for lying then never released her for some reason4. the weavers imprisoned GMS with an 'ancestral technique', the song sung by the pilgrims just powers the technique, probably by taking some of their soul force when they worship the weavers and sing the conductors know GMS exists as the true god and that the weavers' technique is failing but they hold onto the dying queendom nonetheless out of greed5. they left after the haunting started, after they realized they were adopted, and that they will never be able to be the true rulers of HER queendom6. i like to believe there was almost no pilgrim cruelty before GMS was put to sleep by the weavers.there's that hidden bronze statue that talks about pilgrims living in equality, it was only the weavers that started the horrific whiteward experiments via the conductors, and silk only became a currency for the elites after the weavers left7. yeah, was probably only the silk implants that started waking GMS and making her haunt the silk with nightmaresif the weavers didn't try to 'play god' and ascend lesser bugs with their 'divinity' then they could have ruled foreverironic since they were unknowingly mirroring their mother>>724325236worth mentioning that Groal is haunted, completely possible he only killed the snail+pinstress sister after he lost his mind>>724325762hornet is unique because most half weavers lose their mastery over silk but hornet is more talented than her mothers
>>724354749it's a nice thought; having phantom binded to you as eva but i'm too much of a brainlet to connect how they could be the same.
>>724354568>Sister, spider, husk bound to branch,>Watch over these bugs, passing safe,>Warded by fear,>>>>>No longer your meal.
>>724354568Maybe to the Pilgrims who don't know better. Both Shakra and the Vaultkeeper describe The Weavers as viscous monsters
> HAUNTING’S ON THE RISE> AND THE KINGDOM’S VICTIMIZED> LOOKIN’ UP WITH NO SURPRISE > ARRIVIN’ IN THE SPEED A’ TIME
Do you think the White Lady has any higher being power other than infinite interspecies REPRODOOCING
>>724320048Is it just me or does grandmama silk have true final boss aura while lost lace seemed more like fake final boss
>>724323361>Such an underwhelming final boss in retrospect.Anon...
>>724331012>GMS clearly loves LaceBetter a child spun mad than noneBetter a child spun frail than noneBetter a child spun pure than them, one to wish our waking. From our silk, a child born loyalOriginally I thought a "child spun pure" was referring to Hornet, being a true Weaver descendant and not an artificial creation. Basically GMS saying she made Phantom and Lace because she needed something, but more than those stand-ins what she wants most of all are her REAL children. But now I'm starting to think that LACE is the "child spun pure".If that's true, though, it begs the question, why capture the other Weavers? The main plot seems to hinge on this idea that Lace is just a doll for GMS, a substitute for what she really wants, which is to have her disloyal children returned to her. She has all of the Weavers captured and brought to her because she wants her daughters back, and Lace is salty about it because she doesn't like feeling like she's a red-headed stepchild that her mom can't ever truly love.
>>724351347that's how you get radiance infected GMS
>>724355116I think most people would think this, LL is more of a plot driven final boss, Silk has the big baddie vibe and seemingly everything set out for a dlc AbsRad upgrade.LL wouldn't make much sense making you fight the same fight a 4th time
Why exactly didn't Hornet know about how Greyroot (and probably White Lady by extension)'s biologies work? She seems to know a lot of things which aren't privy to the player, probably by virtue of being a princess of Hallownest and all that, but somehow no one ever bothered to clue her in on how exactly all of her siblings were born?
>>724355161The theme of Lace not knowing how much GMS actually loves her would be consistent with GMS wanting the fresh Weaver silk to ensure Lace stays pure, and doesn't degrade like Phantom who was reliant on reused dregs.
>>724353672>taskedSo not an exile or imprisonment, but a job.
>>724355364I loved Lost Lace as a final boss, but then I also think that the original HK did it backwards, the hype fight should be duel, not clobbering the titan.There's an arguably better universe where the original HK would have ended with you fighting an infected Hollow Knight that behaved like the Radiance, and then the true final boss was knocking the infection out of him and fighting Pure Vessel. I like Lost Lace as the crowning moment.That said, it would also be cool to have an alternate Act 3 ending where you fight Voided GMS in the cocoon beneath the Abyss.
>>724355523wait the white lady used the same parasite impregnation method? was it on hallownest citizens or the pale king?
>>724355763I mean we don't know that for sure, we just assume it's similar given the resemblance between the characters.
>>724355647That would almost make sense were it not for the fact that GMS is clearly producing plenty of silk on her own and also wants a child spun "of her own silk", clearly lace is an extension of her own body. Phantom was made of reused dregs which is why she failed, and why Lace was the successful experiment, but I'm not convinced Silk needs other Weavers specifically because she needs their Silk. That whole interpretation of the plot, where the Weavers are being brought back specifically because they can produce silk, has never made any sense to me.
>>724355523If the memory is accurate, Hornet didn't actually get around to meeting White Lady until she had already bound herself, so it's possible Hornet never saw White Lady in her true breeding splendour.She also wasn't a parasite like Greyroot, she was the higher being of plant flora and bred naturally, just extremely prolifically.
>>724355830white lady is too cute for that
https://youtube.com/shorts/by0Z6qrH0soIs he right
>>724355850>GMS is clearly producing plenty of silk on her ownIs she? GMS was still in her cocoon, and all the silk in the cradle can easily just be because of that.
>>724355975no, for two reasons, first of all it's not 9, it's barely an 8, and second of all he wears a bowtie
It's weird, I really loved Bloodbourne and it's lore, and the DS lore, but after Elden ring I just boomerified and don't give a shit about lore anymore. I just can't be bothered in these kinds of games. Maybe it's just because they try to be so try hard and edgy with making their game "prepare to die" that it's just tiresome.
>>724356063>Is she?We literally see the silk shoot down from the sky and possess bugs multiple times through the course of the journey. She's clearly spewing silk left and right, it's all over the environment of Pharloom. When she wakes, she's completely covered in it. The contrast between how she appears at the end of Acts 2 and 3 is designed to convey how spent she is trying to hold back the Abyss; we actually SEE a "threadbare GMS" in the final boss arena, we know that when we first encounter her atop the Cradle she's got an assload of silk at her disposal and she freely uses it throughout the fight.
>>724354749Eva is the Weavers trying to make their own Lace, I think.
>>724325119>needing her to be beatable for people doing the cursed endingI mean, you could simply fix this by having a different, easier fight triggered if you're cursed and the regular, harder one if you're not
>>724353506weavers made phantom, there is an artificial vat like eva's in the organthey managed to make artificial life out of silk but its soul was slowly fraying/unravelling and GMS didn't consider her to be alivethen the infertile deepnest weavers tried to make life WITHOUT silk and managed to create eva, a true soul, but they were unable to give her formLace is GMS's only attempt at creating artificial life and she succeeded: lace is a real soul woven into an immortal body, she just needs a steady supply of silk to live forever but Lace thought she was just a doll and that GMS didn't really love her, like phantom, and would throw her away like a tool as soon as she had Hornet and could reclaim her kingdomso she watched the final fight from afar and only intervened once she saw Hornet about to fall into the abyssal trap tooit's only once GMS struggles to shelter her from the abyss, threatening to destroy her entire kingdom in the process, that she realizes GMS only wanted Hornet so she could keep Lace alive, and that she was truly loved
Hold this for me, please.
>>724356162I feel like elden ring dumps a lot of lore at you and it lacks structure, I think dlc was an impruvement in that improvement. and it makes malenia's story better in retrospect, she was such a huge character but her motivation was non-existent
>>724326239GMS is now in total control of the citadel's forces, she's sending out parties to capture weavers because she wants her original children back.That's why Lace is pissed and trying to stop you, because she views you as a replacement.
>>724352076Hollow KnightSilk SongSurely the third game is literally just going to be Steel Soul
>>724356484But how is Lace spun of the silk of random Weavers when GMS had her created specifically spun “of (her) own silk”?
>>724354264When giants fall, crows swarm
>>724356493
>>724356547Yeah I never cared about the dlc, or any fromsoft game after this. I really miss games with a proper world building, people gave destiny a lot of shit but the whole universe and lore is really good. I have some of these grimoires an ex girlfriend gifted me. But it seems that this is more of a ying of the past.
>>724356162Elden ring lore was great in the base game, broken by the DLC. Also FROM can't write as well as TC, simply because they both do the same "design the game then fit the lore" but TC does it less ambiguously. Elden Ring dlc Miyazaki clearly got too fucked up one day at after work drinks and just went WE'LL MAKE IT ALL ABOUT FEET OK. ITS TWIN PRINCES BUT WITH MORE FEET.
>>724356580Or even better, have her be a proper final boss and fuck you (in a fun way) if you decide to take on the secret challenge that's not only optional, but you really have to get out of your way to attempt.
>>724357134the way the Silkshot's just lying around the Bilewater Weavenest with repair instructions up on Mt Fey, a completely different place, makes me think they were pretty well-established technology when the Weavers left Pharloom - I wonder if Hornet actually learned to fire one in her youth. She was able to repair one based on the Mt Fay schematics, after all.
>>724355107I mean, if greyroot can just kill a higher being like nothing, I'm pretty concerned what a pale root is capable of.
>>724357595>if greyroot can just kill a higher being like nothingBut she doesn’t?
>>724355523This is pretty true. Hornet seemed at home with the pale court, and WL most likely to watch over her. Its pretty telling she didn't mention anything about roots when speaking to greyroot, which makes me think greyroot could possibly not be the norm for roots and was instead a result of polluted soil
>>724357518it's basically what's inside the larger automaton you find in mt fey nest. just like hornet rips out the rosary machine component to use as a gun.
>>724355851How'd we know she'd bound herself? She's wearing royal garbs in the memory, isn't she?
>>724356493This thing was adorable and I felt bad I had to kill it
>>724324256>GMS sleep does literally nothingWhat does sleep even mean when she can spin new children, take over people willy nilly and send them all over the place to do her bidding?
>>724357943I'm thinkin' arby's
>>724323361>Final boss
>>724358204The bigger question is what can she do if she were allowed to wake unimpeded? I mean the Snail Shamans buried her in the bottom of the Void. And even though she's not really living her best life, she didn't immediately die. That's an insane level of power.
>>724357842>She's wearing royal garbs in the memory, isn't she?yes
>>724356783>Hey guys I just beat Steel Soul Steel Soul
>>724359141Joke's on you, the entire game will have permadeath.
>>724359141i can see team cherry doing that desu
>>724358413You should've been able to kill Nuu optionally
so what exactly are the steel soul dudes? do they come from the city of steel?
>>724358413She would've let sherma go in for the kissu
>>724324256Does anyone else find this plot just boring and awful? It's just a worse version of Hollowknights plot with an old god slowly driving the kingdom mad with the only difference between they tried to siphon her power instead of it being a baleful curse. Like the entire game just felt like it was supposed to have a plot that went somewhere but that plot never happened?
>>724359297Yes and they have a type of metal rock that can regenerate apparently
>>724359462>Does anyone else find this plot just boring and awful?No.
>>724357663She does in the cursed ending. Though to be fair it was through Hornet's body who is a pale being.
>>724343803what the fuck is that???
>>724359462Not the worst but yeah. It's because TC forced a bunch of parallels for hornet's character arc. I found it grating and tiring personally because their parallels from the first game were far more interesting
>>724359551Also mind the greyroot only went for the kill after Hornet pretty much did all the work of bringing her down and using her own power to assimilate bugs
>>724359591Caterpillar smoothie
>>724359392>tfw you realize sherma isn't a loli but a shotahornet is going to milk him dry
>>724355763dickgirl_on_male, size_difference, mpreg
>>724359661Actually, what causes the parasite to suddenly attack? Isn't hornet holding it at bay? The only other time it lashes out is when she's subdued by the prison cage thing because those things nullify her silk
>>724359858Sensed an even better host
>>724359718
>>724359858I think the gag is the parasite “weakens” Hornet because it forces Hornet to use most of her Weaver and pale powers to check its possession, Cable-style. Hornet’s fight with GMS severely weakens them both; suddenly the root baby is the strongest motherfucker in the room.
>>724359462meh, same thing with HK. It only gets interesting after a 4 hours lore essay
I dont think what hatches at the cursed ending is a pale being because when mother silk's stomach begins to crack open, there's no white glow coming from inside the fissure
Alright, what the fuck cunt. Lace 2 while cursed is hyper AIDS. I fucked up my steps and now I'm stuck with this fight. Fuck.
GRANDMOTHERSILK
>>724359462i think that this is because they hastily changed the entire plot and lore at some time during the developmentjust look at all those old and early trailers, screenshots, gameplays but also old concept arts of maps etc, coral forest instead of blasted steps, hunter's march having all those structures made of bones making it look much more developed as opposed to just an extension of far fields we got, verdania most likely being early bilewater because of those acidy enemies with silk draining mechanic attached to them, catacombs instead of m whiteward which is much more focused around silk, much less moss and silk appearing in all those places, on the floors and walls as if they weren't supposed to be just deteriorating ruins of old civilizations, same thing with citadel which wasn't scattered with bodies and silk everywherealso wisp thicket and coral tower enemies fighting and patrolling alongside all those citadel alligned bugs in greymoor and blasted steps, actual assasins from some far lands hunting hornet instead of mind controlled zombiesi think that this game's story and lore looked totally different with all those places being much more lively and the concept of haunting and/or citadel driving everything around it to ruin were later additions after tc decided to just do og hollow knight all over again
>>724362893>he cursed himself before unlocking gmslol, lmao
>>724342025>picKos?
>>724362893Anon... lace 2 is even easier than GMS... just hit once, jump away, check what she's doing and either pogo or dash if she's jumping
>>724363213Other way around. They wrote the main story when it was first DLC for HK. Then they came up with a bunch of ideas for areas and expanded it into a full game. Then they realized how many areas didn't fit as a cohesive setting with the lore they development and reworked them to fit (coral gorge being dried up and turned into Karak for example) instead of changing the main story to fit the areas they had designed (what they should've done).
>>724363598Indeed. I am the fool today. >>724364042I might just be retarded
How come 2nd Sentinel doesn't help you at the High Halls gauntlet, why am I stuck with old fart and dat zaza
>>724364561Because she doesn't trust Hornet until you beat her in a duel.
>>724320048ok is there a stay warm item for mount fray or am I just supposed to rawdog the platforming with the time limit? I'm guessing I gotta raw dog it. at the same time I was suprised the naked escape was so short that should have gone way crazier
>>724348360>>724347338>>724347597horseshoe crabblue blood from horseshoe crabslifeblood source
>>724364679raw dog it, it's not as bad as it seems
>>724364679>ok is there a stay warm item for mount fray There is, to find it just reach the peak of Mount Fray :)
>>724364679There are warm spots everywhere, you might lose a mask or two since you won't know where exactly you're doing at first, but there's also plenty of large silk spools so you can heal. I recommend the grip tool though.
>>724364679The Flintslate, the fire damage buff tool, resets you back to warm and toasty when it use it.
>>724364817Grip tool always threw me off way more than it helped
>>724364927It just pauses the timer, it doesn't reset.
>Weavers are uplifted Pharlids>Vaultkeepers are uplifted Garpids(?)>Architects are robots>Conductors are uplifted _____?
>>724355016They ARE vicious monsters. See >>724355007Grand Mother Silk did nothing wrong, while the Weavers did everything wrong.The Weavers trapped Grand Mother Silk.The Weavers created the religion of the Citadel of Song to keep her trapped.And when it became clear that they couldn't keep her trapped, the Weavers fled Pharloom for the far corners of the world in the futile hope that Grand Mother Silk would not be able to punish them for their betrayal.Meanwhile, everyone that wasn't part of a Weaver-worshipping cult recognized them for the dangerous predators that they were and aren't sorry to see them pass from the world.These are indisputable facts and presented wholly within the text f the game. Anyone that hasn't grasped it, yet, hasn't been paying attention and can only engage with the media in terms of, "antagonist = bad guy."
>>724363713Or some say Kosm...
>>724335478She also is more than willing to accept help, which is refreshing for that type of character. She isn't too proud to admit she coukd use a hand, whenever anyone offers her their aid she readily accepts and admits they could be useful
>>724365215>Grand Mother Silk did nothing wrongCreating the Weavers in the first place was both evil and profoundly idiotic. GMS looked at the fucking Pharlids, two of the most asshole trash mobs in the game, and went "yup, perfect choice to give sapience, nothing bad will come from this."
>>724365825The weird thing is why not Moss Grotto?
>>724364679back again. I forgot games could be this good. this shit maaaaaaaaaaaaan. this that good shit.
>>724365825Its because she relates to the pharlids. Both in their sneakiness and beastliness. They're her favorite animals basically.
>>724365825That the Weavers were never able to overcome their own base impulses is hardly GMS' fault. She gave them reason and they repaid her with betrayal, probably because she wouldn't permit them to indulge in their sadistic whims.
>>724366202this is one of those games that will never be uninstalled. truly an instant classic
>>724355763>The Pale King bends over and spreads>'no cost too great'
I've died like 50 times but I'm getting closer. I'm going to Nico Bellic this fucking doily of a child.
wtf the second sentinel took me a whole 3 tries, that's the most anything's taken me since I got the architect
>>724366847both earthworms and plants are hermaphrodites after all
YEAH BITCH. SUCK IT BITCH. EAT MY RED DRESS BITCH. >>724367204
>unironically caring about some cute 2D game's lore made for kidsas a TES/morrowind lorefag, reading this thread makes me laugh
>>724368223I imagine it would, normally retarded people laugh at things they don't understand as a coping mechanism. It's ok uncanon, we get it your time is done and you're sad.
>>724368347cute zoomie :)
>>724368384Tick tock old man. Youth as an insult is a pathetic cope.
>>724368223Go talk with your kids old faggot, if you don't like the silly cute game about schizophrenic bugs, why are you even here.Anyone knows what was the exact purpose of each sanctuary in the game (giant bells), they don't seem to have any important use case for our Eternal Citadel?
>>724338570If I took that red dress off of you would you die?>you know what goes hereYou're a pretty bug girl
>>724359462I do feel it worst than the first one, but I still don't know a lot about the lore (tf with the giant bells?) and as of right now we still lack dlc, art book, comic book etc that may change our perception of the lore.
>>724368808I imagine once upon a time the bells rang along the entire path to the citadel, and echoed out to inspire pilgrims. If you hear a bell tolling, you know someone made it higher up so you can too. Also the bells aren't as important once in the citadel as their noise doesn't appear to be a part of the binding spell GMS is under
>>724368942Makes sense, but wouldn't the architects prefer a more automatic system to get new pilgrim for the underworks instead of something so manual and luck based?
>>724369221I figure because there seems to be one central "safest" path from Moss Grotto up to the Citadel, and the ducts are all various forms of fucked up along with Sinner's road, that the idea is once there were bell stations in every direction for as far as possible summoning new pilgrims to the sound, but now, they've fallen into disrepair and simply aren't maintained. Maybe once there was a more automatic fashion, but the world is essentially new beauracrats constantly dealing with the decisions of the old and trying to keep an ailing system chugging along.
>>724368223>having to separate Morrowind from TESBethesda lore has been half baked lazy dogshit for over two decades now and it's funny that you think coming into another thread talking about how into it you are is a flex, shall we talk about how teleportation and levitation magic were inexplicably made illegal and not even criminal syndicates dare to use them?
>>724349689I was wondering about that, when you fight First Sinner you find her bound the same as all other weaver effigies you get skills from, so it would make sense those are also bound weavers, displayed as part of their punishment perhaps
>>724354264Bugs and fungi gather at decay and decomposition
>>724355117>>724358413See >>724323610
>"Hollow Knight: Silksong">the Hollow Knight never shows up once
>>724374082actually the phrase Hollow Knight is a reference to Lace this time :^)
>>724374082You see "a" Hollow Knight in the true end
>>724374082>Lord of the Rings>the actual lord of the rings only shows up twice in proxy formFucking really?
JP artist who made a lot of art for the original HK and got featured by TC before and made https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdHskxJrSnw has beaten the game and posted all the doodles they made. Check it out!https://ktsoukoz.xxxx.jp/2025-10-24-2/
>>724375046cute!
>>724343234anon, we see her. She's fucking dead.
>>724375262*memory needolins on you*
Silksong is a great game but we must have the balls to admit that the story, lore, and general writing is one-dimensional trash. Silksong abuses vagueness and ellipsis to cover for a deadly lack of interesting ideas. Just look at Mister Mushroom's quest, who speaks in stoned out riddles, and how the writer managed to strong together words in combinations that contain zero meaning. The visual identity of Pharloom is great, and the art and music combine to make some places feel believable, an impressive feat for a 2D game, yet the writing makes almost no attempt to broaden and connect the world through stories. When a writer chooses to implement fetch quests over true side quests containing character and story arcs, I can only conclude they do not enjoy writing at all.
>>724375365>words in combinations that contain zero meaningWait till a Youtube bozo explains his dialogue and BTFOs you
>>724375189
>>724375365Why did you cherry pick Mister Mushroom of all characters to complain about dialogue. He is literally the only character that speaks in riddles. Anyways, the only weak part of the writing are the three hearts section.
>>724375425>J-just wait until my bideo game essayist makes everything make sense !! Then you'll tremble !!You don't need a literature degree to realise that the following contains nothing of use. It's neither interesting, entertaining, funny, or clever. Much of Silksong's dialogue is like this. > As one who has seen so much, tell me simply, do you believe my efforts in vain?>Me? Certainly you can ask, but I cannot provide good answer. I've no mind for outcomes. Always my vision is too clouded by the present.>Only the journey... the now. For myself, that is the purpose, and as far as my sight can see.A skilled writer does not need to be vague or mysterious in order to be interesting.
>>724375638i'm fucking memeing, anon. but thanks for the cool lore quote
>>724375638He's alluding to horney's wyrm side here thoughever. That's a pretty big deal methinks
>>724375638>A skilled writer does not need to be vague or mysterious in order to be interestingsorry, but I have a video game to play
>>724320048Sometimes I think my cunt tree (Australia) has lots of hidden potential stifled by overpriced real estate and jeet floods Then when we do something good like Bluey it doesn't even end up ours because we're fucking retardedI'm glad we got Team Cherry at least
>>724375816Nothing that was alluded to that we didn't know.
>>724375638Not every story and setting needs to be a solved puzzle.
>>724376381Thing is, I doubt the writer could coherently explain the world start to finish if there was a gun to his head. Dark Souls' fragmentary storytelling was allegedly designed to recreate Miyazaki struggling to read English fantasy books when he was young. I don't think Team Cherry has a similar justification for their pretensions. Perhaps if GMS really did feel like a god, perhaps if silk really did feel like soul, perhaps if the Void did feel like an unknowable and horrifying abyss, perhaps if their writing did hinge upon that Lovecraftian sensation of massive unknowables, then I think mystery would suffice to hold one's interest, but it doesn't. I don't think it works.
>>7243595914chan's water and cum cocktail
>>724376791Its just structured wrong. What do the bells signify? Why am I going around ringing the bells? What do the bells do for me, for anyone? Does it hurt the bad guy? Why? When is this told, or shown, or anything? Is music the key? Is the music a weapon? When did they discover this, and why does music in particular work? Ultra basic things like this go unexplained, while we get a lot of useless faffing about regarding Weaver this, conductor that.. characters that are essentially useless and have zero agency within the story.
>>724351535One of the weavers main abilties is to bring stuff from memories/the immaterial to the physical world, it might work,
>>724365165The conductors could've just been regular, masked choir bugs. Visually, they resemble larger versions of pilgrim/choir elders.
>>724366526>Never touching it ever again. Even for the dlc.
>>724379136erm, anon-san. there's a trouble with that. Is that- hmm.. I'm trying to find who asked
>>724355719HK was also "tasked" with containing the infection. That word tells us nothing about whether Phantom consented or not.
>>724375046>character development haircut
it has been so long since i drew this.any requests?
>>724376791what a pseud. you type like you want to be killed
>>724380308Hornet getting her degree
>>724355975They're not bad points. The quality is quite high, but as an experience 9 is still very high for the overall number of lows the game has.The plot is really messy, for one, especially in comparison to the first game. The level design is needlessly cryptic and antagonistic in its back-half. The game overall seems much more concerned with being challenging enough for vets than actually delivering an experience they might enjoy.This game wouldn't have been a massive, almost unparalleled success if the first game hadn't proceeded it.
>>724375638>A skilled writer does not need to be vague or mysterious in order to be interesting.>posts a quote from a character whose entire gag is that he mumbles half-nonsense to everyone he meets without context or explanationIt’s a joke, nigger, do you not understand jokes
>>724381947I'm sorry sometimes I feel empty so I make a baitpost to farm yous to feel seen again.
>>724377339>What do the bells signify? Why am I going around ringing the bells? What do the bells do for me, for anyone? Does it hurt the bad guy? Why? When is this told, or shown, or anything?The name of the game is SilkSONGA key motif in the game is the power of music. This is extremely explicit. The entire civilization of Pharloom existed to sing a lullaby that kept a god in eternal sleep. The bells “signify” the same thing that Burqas signify in Saudi Arabia: cultural foundations.The civilization of Pharloom is built from the ground up around the song. 1984 style, their language and their architecture and everything else reinforce the fundamental belief in the sanctity of the song; it is unstated assumption for everyone. All doors and gates are locked with musical bells. Basic units of measurement are the “measure and beat”. The most important political leaders are “conductors”. Police are “choristors”. Political subversiveness is referred to as the “sin of dissonance”. Important doors are locked behind the sounding of specific melodies ALL OVER the place. Important historical records are kept on phonograph cylinders. The literal written language on every sign is a degenerate form of sheet music notesWhy? IDK, the main character gets an ability in game where she plays music on a thread of silk, and it literally puppeteers nearly any living thing around her because the melody quite literally resonates with the silk inside of them. This is how music has been used to manipulate a god, an ancient secret none of the culture understands yet all have a role in perpetuating.There are plenty of annoying vaguenesses in a first playthrough but my god dude, imagine not understanding the importance of bells.
>>724375046
GMS while cursed is an absolute bitch of a fight. Absolutely makes an easy fight hard
>>724383550Just don't get hit.
>>724374082Hopefully he appears or at least gets mentioned in the DLC or something because the ending of SS confirms that he's still alive
>>724345081>canon ending>>724385314>ending of SS confirms that he's still alivethese are just your headcanon
>>724385490Someone didn't finish the silksong
>>724325236>and even killed a Snail Shaman that tried to ally with themWhere was this? I missed it.
>>724375046She's still alive?That great desu, she was my favorite HK artist, hope she continues to made short comics like the quirrel ones
>>724385813in a hut right after Groalthere you find the remains of the soul for the act 3 quest
>>724386142It is even reminiscent of the snail shaman you find in the Soul Sanctum.
>>724320048I like her aesthetics, except for the position of the scissor-legs making her lower section diaper-like. Sorry, can't unsee the silk-wrap
>>724338715>Someone is frustrated and has a legit complaint>>724338878>It's not that deep bro!>Assumes that the complaints are because the person is too lazy or stupid to read>>724339629>Oh nah nah it's really simple!>explains because the person CLEARLY didn't understand it>Tries to fix the problem with the personI'm so fucking tired of seeing this shit everywhere. Literal children getting butthurt because somebody complained, so they lash out and assume the worst in the most uncharitable way possible. Is it too much to ask for people to treat others like fucking people instead of bait for trolling and gotchas? Makes it impossible to talk to anyone about anything when you get drowned out by hyped up chaotic children looking for their next dopamine fix.
>>724368223Isn't TES lore "it's all le dream" dogshit?
>>724382467>This is how music has been used to manipulate a god, an ancient secret none of the culture understands yet all have a role in perpetuating.This does not follow from the other things you wrote. How. How does singing cause the big bad to fall asleep. And why did it stop working? What does ringing the bell actually do when you go around in act 1 ringing bells. What is their function? The game never explains fucking shit.
>>724375365>for a 2D gamekek good bait
>>724379620>>724355719Vessel was tasked with saving the kingdom in a real, tangible way and received accolades, numerous honorary plaques and statues in his honor, and was lauded a hero. Phantom was sent to the asshole of the citadel, was "tasked" with pumping refuse until she croaked. No accolades. No merit. Just expected to work until she passed away i suppose? Is that a way to treat a child? Your first born child?
>>724383550Took me 3 tries
Having fun? Bad game design. Coherent plot? Bad writing. Shrimple.
>>724390440Diffuse and unclear writing does not have to be bad, but it doesn't have to be good either. Explain why being unclear and diffuse works for Silksong's benefit in this case?
>>724391871I'm joking. The plot is dogshit. Reads like fan-fiction written by a 13 year old girl who recently learnt the word "narcissist" and decided her mother qualifies.
>>724388967>Literal children getting butthurt because somebody complained, so they lash outthat's quite literally what you did in the first place and what you're doing nowIf you input garbage, people will treat you like garbage. If you keep getting treated like shit it's because you're an idiot.
I still don’t understand what part of Lace's existence particularly makes being her suck so much, especially in comparison to literally everyone else in Pharloom.
>>724392480I'm not the original complainer. Juicier to assume so though.
>>724394060>What's so bad about being an outcast born from a tube
>start mushroom quest>first part is really hard because you know the locations but they make you search in a wide area>last locations are extremely easy to find and provide no mental challenge>platforming at the end is literally just repeating the same jump more than 20 timesdisappointing
>>724394389She's not an outcast at all, she basically goes around killing pilgrims for shits and giggles.
So lame compared to The Radiance
>>724346274You could assume that the Weavers inherited their silk harp musical abilities from Grand Mother Silk. Maybe it's just a cultural thing they developed on their own, but that's boring and leads nowhere. "The Song" is an ancient Weaver technique that the Conductors copy and perpetuate, but they don't know how it works. Maybe it's some kind of musical power where the sound vibrates through silk threads and resonates with the soul.Hornet can do something similar with the Needolin. You can use it to view lingering soul "conversations", and I doubt that every single NPC and enemy is dropping what they're doing to stand there and sing their personal thought to you simply because they think the music sounds nice. Silk is soul, and silk music can compel people. The Weavers probably figured it out and sent GMS a "hey you should REALLY take a nap, mom" message.
The only vague part of Silksong is the timeline when the weavers go insane to the conductors taking over everythingLike what did the weavers and silk even do prior to the first sinner
>>724351913maybe different kinds of corruption can create a balance
>all the problems of Pharloom originate from GMS being infertile
>>724394574>Michael Myers is not an outcast
>>724395056>>724395109So every thing is happy go lucky as long as people sing, because the mega powerful psycho manchild at the top of the pyramid is lulled to sleep? That's what all the bells and songs and so on are? Why did the people stop singing? Why is everyone in the citadel dead? At some point the song stopped working? Why?
>>724394060>Lace caused calamity because she thought GMS didn't love her>THK couldn't contain the infection because he loved his daddyThey are "hollow knights"
>>724395251Ultra privileged little shit that has never had any problems in her entire life, and effectively is mother's only real focus in the world beyond her giant inflamed ego.. feels a little bad sometimes ? Poor lace she should an hero
>>724395629Yeah, but THK is a helpless, innocent creature with a sobering fate. Lace is a spoiled brat with no redeeming qualities to her personality or behaviour besides being a cute girl.
>>724396028He's also a knight that took his fate on the chin. When he's lost he tries stabbing himself to end it all. A heroic, self sacrificing figure until the end. We're asked to care for Lace for unclear reasons? She's a cunt, and remains a cunt throughout. A stupid bimbo cunt like her dumb cunt mother
>>724396028>>724396216Path of Pain 2 will show lace's sad backstory(It's a very sad) and everyone will forgive her>lace and GMS sitting next to each other>GMS looks at lace>then lace looks back>GMS's slowly fading away and lace brusts out cryingOOOH MY GOD TEAM CHERRY!! THEY DID IT AGAIN!!!! THEY CAN'T KEEP GETTING AWAY WITH THIS
>>724389369Pretty sure you need to ring all the bells to get into the Citadel through the Blasted Steps
The worst part of Lace being a shitty forced garbage character is it'll stop me from appreciating the kino spun sisters DLC fight.
>>724397541wait that was a woman? why is EVERYONE A FUCKING WOMAN IN THIS GAME HOLY SHIT
>>724397437Yeah but why? How does the system work. Who put it there. What does the bell do? Why don't more people ring bells if it's beneficial? Why did people stop ringing bells?
>>724397620Are you scared of women?
>>724397767>Why did people stop ringing bells?Kept dying before they could. Have to beat a craw gauntlet to ring that one, for example.
>>724397620Silksong is a game depicting a world in decline thanks to the universal loss of the male figure. That's essentially what it all boils down to. GMS can't find a man, won't find a man. Tries to make children with insane magick tech. Doesn't work good, isn't happy. Shit slides ever downward from there.
>>724397620Yes anon, no wonder this game is so popular with trannies.
>>724397880Why didn't the crow people ring the bells if it does something good ? Whatever ringing a bell does no one says what it does afaikIf the bad guy somehow gets hurt by ringing a bell why didn't they destroy all the bells?
>>724397983>Why didn't the crow people ring the bells if it does something good ?Because it doesn't do anything good for them, it's good for the pilgrims, who the craws hate.
>>724398110Why? What does the bell do
>>724397620No idea how you can mistake Lace for anything other than female with those hips.
>>724398124Play the game, anon.
>>724398165I did, and it's still not clear what ringing all the bells does. You can easily say it, in one word, if you know. But you don't, really, do you? The writing is all off. This isn't waking up a dreamer in HK. The bells do not *do* anything to GMS.
>>724397983"the bad guy" didn't get hurt. they used to ring the bell for pilgrims to gather together and sing, like a church. the bell ringing didn't hurt last judge. She was there to weed out traitors and those who would rebel againat the citadel (sherma is too stupid)>why singing?weaver propaganda to roofie GMS>how does a song put GMS to sleep?It's a magic lullaby made by weavers, also the thread's hitting bump limit
>>724398660The bells create a rest spot for pilgrims and unlocks the Grand Gate. They don't do anything to GMS. Bells are for drawing attention over a large distance. They indicate to the Citadel that new pilgrims are ready to be judged for their purity, as well as to signal to other pilgrims where they need to go along the path.What did thinks for GMS was the eternal choir performing their eternal song, because the bind was music-based. The reason why it was music based is because GMS had the Weavers spin their song to glorify her, so the Weavers turned the song against her before setting up the choir to keep it going in their place.
>>724389369>How does singing cause the big bad to fall asleep. And why did it stop working?You need to pay attention to what happens in the game.We see the Weavers playing harps for Grand Mother Silk in the memory after defeating Widow. The Weavers used their music to put Grand Mother Silk to sleep, but they had to maintain the song to keep her that way - and they weren't willing to do that because the whole point of putting her to sleep was so that they would be free to do as they pleased without her. So they create a religion for the lesser bugs of Pharloom that requires they sing in a perpetual choir, so that the Weavers don't have to. This is the beginning of the Citadel of Song, which is ostensibly raised in honor of the Weavers (lore tablet at the first Weaver spire you encounter in Mosshome) but with the secret purpose of keeping Grand Mother Silk asleep.They then try to create a champion to challenge Grand Mother Silk while she's imprisoned (Eva, Weavenest Atla), but their craft is inadequate to the task and they abandon her.At some point during this whole prolonged plot, the First Sinner has a crisis of conscience and threatens to reveal that the Weavers aren't divine at all, potentially toppling the false religion of the Citadel of Song, so she's imprisoned beneath the Slab by her sisters (flashback after defeating First Sinner). We know this has to be the case because there has to be a religion to sin against.With it clear that there's nothing they can do to permanently incapacitate Grand Mother Silk, the Weavers then flee from Pharloom (lore tablet and collectible in Weavenest Cindril).Without the Weavers' influence, the Citadel grows increasingly extravagant under the leadership of the Conductors (Pious Isamor's removal from the Grand Gate). The choir begins to falter and they turn to silk sutures to keep bugs singing (White Ward et al), but this only serves to give Grand Mother Silk more influence over them despite her imprisonment.
>>724399889Eventually, they have the Architects build a glorified music box with the hope that it'll keep up the song so that they can be free of the duty the Weavers foisted on them, too, although this was probably inspired by Grand Mother Silk's influence specifically because it wouldn't be enough. When we do finally see the mechanical choir, it's been silent for an indeterminate period of time already. By this point, Grand Mother Silk is still imprisoned but has been exercising increasingly overt control over the bugs of Pharloom in the form of the haunting. The Vaultkeeper figured it out and the knowledge may have driven him to suicide. Conductor Balador seems to state that he's known all along, but he's been using silk to prolong his own life so Grand Mother Silk has probably been puppeteering him for a while, and through her control of him, has been dispatching the choir to capture Weaverspawn in other kingdoms.When Hornet arrives in Pharloom, the music has fallen silent and, as a result, Grand Mother Silk is just on the verge of awakening - which she finally does during the final confrontation in the Cradle, which is completely choked with silk because of how long its been neglected. It's not even that hard to follow along, you just have to read the dialogue.
