Firaxis gives up in trying to make you like civ switching.>First, we're testing some dramatic changes to the Legacy Paths and Victories in Civ VII. We want to open up the game and provide many new paths your empire can follow while achieving greatness and competing for victory.>Second - and this one’s been one of the most requested features from players - we're internally playtesting ways to play as one civ continuously through the Ages, allowing you to choose a civilization from any Age and guide them throughout your journey through history.https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/1295660/view/511846967442147918
>>724323513nice
>>724323513Sid Meier is rolling in his fucking grave
>>724323584he's not dead and has barely had anything to do with the games after the first one
>>724323786He did design Civilization Revolution. Other that that he has pretty much just occasionally designed some hypercasual tactics games like Sid Meier's Starships since the mid-90s.
>>724323513Too little too late. Won't be buying this Civ or any other ever again. I regret buying Civ 6.
>>724323513wow it took them this long to realize people get attached to the empires they build and don't like turning them into something completely different every agethis idea was stupid as fuck from the start when humankind did it
>>724323513>Pirate republic>IcelandAre they copy mods now? Like I recall both of them being mods for Civ6.
>>724323513Cool, now delete harriet tubman
>>724323513>Ottomans comingBased. Day one purchase.
>>724324347For me, it is Mehmed II from Civ 4.
>>724324242The idea could work if each civ had a unique path for them going through the ages, but going from Egypt to China is fucking retarded.
>>724324681it just end game liberalpunkeveryone is replaceable and ethnicity doesnt matterline must go up, whatever line that is
>>724324681yeah if they put actual thought into it and it was still the same civ mostly that would work
>>724324242They probably presumed that the playerbase is more fans of the leaders than fans of the nations based on how their community acts, but terribly misread it.
>>724324464Suleiman looks scary in 4.
OH NO NO NO SHILLBROS THIS CANT BE HAPPENINGWHAT ABOUT THE CONSOLE MAJORITY AND THE RECORD PREORDERS?????
>>724324681I think Old World's approach where nation's leaders die and change is much better way to shake the formula up. It would not really work for Civ though, Old World's time frame goes just from the late bronze age until the Middle-Ages.
Civ is such a turd franchise. Why do you want history flavor when the game is almost completely fantasy?
>>724324681>The idea could work if each civ had a unique path for them going through the agesThat doesn't work for most nations because almost no one went through that path.There is no Stone Age United States with Goerge Washington just like there are no modern age Sumerians.
>>724325185No. They thought Humankind was going to be a Civ killer and adapted some shit from it to premtively stop the bleeding and when Humankind flopped they couldn't pivot back
harriet tubman = no buy
>>724325681Sumerians become Iraqis
>>724325673I don't get it I also just hate the tile gameplay in CIVmeanwhile I have tons of hours in Age of Wonders 4 since it has tactical battles and cooler settings and research
The problem with 4x games is the first play through is fun, maybe the second but after that it's all the same. Sure you may have different races, leaders perks, fantasy shit etc but at the end of the day it boils down to just cosmetics and every run feels the same.
>>724325950Try Age of Wonders 4. The different scenarios play out very differently. Different win conditions, different AI strategies, different terrain and enemies, etc...
>>724326127That's what I was playing. I made it to the 3rd or 4th scenario and every run felt exactly the same. Sure there's all this different customization and shit you can do but what's the point? All the tomes seem pointless since you can auto combat nearly everything and if you do manual combat it feels like a slog and it gets old after like the 3rd battle.
>>724326127are the expacs worth it? I haven't gotten any of them yetI also haven't tried multiplayer at all, are combats all auto resolved or if say a game has 6 players and 2 have a tactical battle everyone has to grab their popcorn bucket?
>>724326434>multiplayernobody does MP
>>724325950the real appeal of 4x games is the roleplaying and emergent gameplay
>>724326364>every run felt exactly the sameunfortunately truei want to like the game but for some reason it just doesnt feel different at all despite trying to do something differentlike i tried a summoning build and it didnt feel all that different in the end
>>724326520>emergent gameplayThat's what drew me to them in the first place. Taking a society from nothing and turning it into this powerhouse. That's one of the reasons I love Rimworld so much.
>>724326434Yes, but don't load up on the expansions all at once. They add new leader types and tomes, but the core content is their new scenarios. So no need to buy them until you have beat the base scenarios.
>>724323513>civ switching.did anyone actually like this shit?
>>724326364I only do a manual battle if I lose something I thought I should've won, usually I win since the auto resolve doesn't really use units or spells strategically the way they should. Not to say I've even actually watched the auto resolve turn by turn but I have to assume it just makes your troops run straight in and buff/debuff stack everywhere since that's all the enemies ever do.>>724326484so it's 100% dead, that's what I expected, I didn't even check because it wanted me to make a paradox account.
I was thinking on completely skipping this one but if they revert the civ switching perhaps they'll be able to fix it after three expansions and i'll get it when it's 10€ on steam.
>>724325681United states just derives from the british, which derives from the britons which derives from some proto-indo-euro ethnic tribe. There's a thread to be followed here.
>>724325681>There is no Stone Age United States with Goerge WashingtonThere is in every Civilization game because it's meant to represent the US in a what-if scenario where they existed since ancient era. And the US is one of the easiest civs to fit into this age transition mechanic - start the game as the British Colonies of America, your age transition is whether you want to secede or stay loyal to the crown.This still has issues, the major one is I think most civilization players aren't interested in this sort of alternate history stuff to dedicate major resources to it, the second is that if you do each civilization you make has to have several sub-civilizations meaning far more devtime spent on each one and third, least important to playerbase but most important to firaxis, this only works for europe and asia. Even with US I can't think of what their second age transition would be after you already went through the revolution and US has far more history than Songhai or Bugudna, so it's harder to include them into the game
>>724325880based aow4 too bad the dlc is expensive as fuck
>>724326735>>724326986Civ switching isn't even a big issue. The whole Era mechanic is what's completely fucked and ruining the game.But I wonder how they can remove civ switching without it just being a stitched together mess that's just worse.
>>724326520>>724326616it is kinda like that, 90% of the game you're just growing and throwing in auto resolvesyou really have to goalpost the game yourself playing into the archtype you want to create and go for different goals, make the game feel personal and try to feel genuine friendships and rivalries with the other empires. But the moment to moment operation is literally always going to be build resource send armyI think going for magic victory is the most interesting but you pretty much have to be astral or shadow to pull it offexpansion victory is a slogI had the most fun with military victory with Chosen Destroyers, and also some Order runs where I made allies and only had to wipe a couple others to win. I think there's depth to the game but it's definitely not in tome selection as far as how those directly affect your strategy, your ruler type and class most of all barely comes into play.
>>724324242>that's nationalism, sweatie, and it's toxic
>>724326127The tomes can feel very same in AoW4 after a while
Quite a backtrack, but it shouldn't be surprising that a system that was largely disliked before release, then still largely disliked after release, eventually became untenable to require with the poor player numbers since launch.
>>724323513Tag switching civs in a series that's literally about taking a civ from the stone age to space, has to be one of the stupidest design choices i've ever heard.
>>724323513Oh thank god. Once they eventually allow you to turn off Civ switching, even if just for the player, I will finally buy the game. Fuck that shit. I have bought and put hundreds of hours into the Civ franchise since Civ3, but refused to even considering touching this one. Even the thought that they considered it a good idea to basically RIP the core foundations out of their game and turn it into another game entirely is bizarre to even think about. They make changes each iteration, which is fine, but not like this.
>>724327785Not to mention they literally had a competitor make the exact same fuck up to learn from then still proceeded to drive off the same cliff. Firaxis deserves to go bankrupt
>>724324681Which functionally wouldn't be different from staying the same actual civ and getting a palette/model swap on your units, cities, and maybe unlock a policy option somewhere.
With the CIV switching how does that work? is it random, if you know you're gonna switch soon could you sabotage your current civ, switch then attack your previous one to snow ball and just keep doing that?
>Let's change the one interesting part of our game because of chudsGaming is healinginto a foul, disgusting callus
>>724328097It doesn't work like that at all. You get 3 choices when the age ends. When the age ends it's a soft reset and you have to play as the 'new' Civ. The old one disappears and you 'turn' into them.
>>724328229That makes sense
>>724323513I'm glad they're acknowledging reality.Civ switching was a fucking terrible idea, antithetical to the core of Civilization as a franchise.However this still won't fix the game.The entirety of Civ 7 is built around the eras system, but that system is fucking terrible.The reason they put in it was that Firaxis knew that most civ games aren't beaten, and the early game is the most fun part. So the eras system is there to make the game just three early games rather than a traditional structure.But that sucks.What makes the early part of the game fun is how everything you do will continue to be important moving forward. Your decisions are the main factor over whether your civ thrives or dies.The eras system makes every action far less important and influential, it makes the whole of the game less fun just to make the late game less tedious.
>>724324280YOOOOOOO A PIRATE CIV?!FUCK YEAH
>>724328162It's being changed solely because:Civ 7 CCU daily peak - 9,847Civ 6 CCU daily peak - 37,531Civ 5 CCU daily peak - 19,724
>>724323513Yep 7 is totally fucked now.There's people like >>724326735 >>724326986 who didn't touch it bc of such a retarded feature. Alienating a huge chunk of your audience was a primo retardo move. But despite that, the at least understood it wasn't a small decision to be made lightly and in fact was the crux of the game, for better or worse.Now after seeing their numbers do horribly, instead of trying to really make that core idea work, really showing off what the change could provide and shake up the series, they're not backpedaling to appease people who are already checked out in the first place.It's pretty obvious to anyone who was stupid enough to pay for it (me) 7 isn't shit solely bc of civ switching. Even if you look past the game missing half the features the last 2 games had PRE expansions, everything is just fucked - the economies (money always wins), the tedium (the second and third ages are miserable), the balance (if there is any), the mechanics that were sanded down until there was barely any mechanic left while being padded with dozens of shitty bonuses (ooh boy I unlocked +1 gold / resource shipped from foreign entities not on your continent!!); it's all fucked. So now, their brilliant move is to alter the entire foundation of their design all while trying to supposedly unfuck the rest of the game in parallel. That's a herculean effort even for a competent developer. For one who made this disaster and already had position cuts before their numbers had even started cratering, it's irreparably over.But knowing 2k, they'll get their paypiggies to keep it on life support just long enough for it to not fade into total oblivion and then once the first expansion comes around, pump all their remaining funds into youtube marketing the cyberpunk way "they fixed it!" "civ 7.5!" "if you didn't try it before, you owe it to yourself to play it now!" - only for anyone to pick it up and go "eh, it's okay, must be better than it was before"
bro typed a whole ass essay just to say nothing at all lmao
Bc what else is there to be said then it's more fucked than it was before? More than half of the people here haven't even played it
>>724323513It seems everything will still reset when you change age and the selection of leaders is still terrible.It's a start, but nowhere enough to make the game worth playing over the previous entries.
>>724324242Even humsnkind doesnt force you to change, it just incentivizes it
>>724323786>he's not deadHe should be after this fiasco
I'm curious if they'll build around this going forward, or if they will effectively just make it so you can always choose to keep your own Civ when going to a new age and make the advanced Civs playable from the start?
>>724328959And that game did very poorly as well. It's been done to death and back, but it's funny they thought "Hey, you know that game that people had fundamental issues with and ended up dying? Let's copy that game".
>>724323513>we're internally playtesting ways to play the game the way you have always played Civilization games since 19 fucking 90>cause we're so retarded that we need to research if the obvious correct and proven way can work
>>724324464>>724325286POV: you are a feminine looking 12 year old Balkan boy
>>724323513They replaced the car's wheels with cubes, and they've had to spend the past year sanding down the edges of the cubes so they can rotate smoothly. The cubes will eventually resemble something close to wheels, at which point early adopters will be wondering why they bought a new car in the first place.
>>724329160It's a pain in the ass development wise to backtrack on the central mechanic of a game when people fundamentally didn't like it.
>>724329091There's literally no possible endgame for them other than going back to the original one-civ-from-stone-age-to-space-age way. Only question is how much they want to suffer before they yield.
>>724323513Civ switching breaks some strategic and fun parts of the earlier games making it more linear and chaotic as the swaps are not historically accurate.I think another problem with 7 is they did nothing to fix the combat, moving many units so many hexes is so annoying and time consuming if the enemy is 10 hexes away you can just forget about it as they pump science. Maybe you can change the combat entirely to something like: every 10 turns all the known civs at war fight each other by adding all their armies together and whoever has less points will "lose" and lose resources. Could be fun.
It won't stop the game from being shit, but at least it means that players not buying it has consequences and that in the end, they'll be forced to listen to players because their jobs/shares are on the line. So maybe they'll stop with the Harriet bullshit in the next game.
>>724328615>getting mogged by your own 15 year old gameThat must sting.
>>724329868Civ 6 still has huge player numbers and Civ 5 is still doing twice what Civ 7 is.I personally still have my grievances to how combat works with hexes, but I don't think that had anything to do with the poor reception here.
>>724329992I'm pretty sure that most of the devs who worked on civ5 were not involved with civ7.
>>724328959wasn't it that you could miss out on it if another player took your civ when the age changed? i might be remembering wrong, it's been a while
>>724323513i never played one of these games for longer than 20 minutes. what is civ switching? like the teutons can suddenly choose to become the mongols or what
>>724330193Yes, not suddenly but at set point in the game.You're forced to change btw.
>>724330193Civ 7 basically split the game into three mini games, so you can only play as ancient civilizations in the Antiquity Age, exploration-era civs in the Exploration Age or newer civs in the Modern Age. When you finish a game in the ancient age, if you want to continue playing then you need to convert into a new civ.>like the teutons can suddenly choose to become the mongolsyesPeople hate it because the restrictions lead to a total lack of game variety (slashing the civ pool up into three groups means you're going to see the exact same selection each game) and because ancient civs like Greece or Egypt aren't allowed to exist beyond their assigned age for dumb reasons.
>>724330193Civ historically is generally is a game where you start from the beginning, and expand from start to finish as a single civ. As each turn builds on what you had, this leads to snowballing since a civ that is ahead is better position to keep expanding their lead each turn. It also means that the endgame is often pointless as it is clear how things are going, so few endgames are played out especially in single player.Civ 7 attempted to address this by making a couple break points where a lot of stuff resets, and civs are swapped for more modern ones, in order to try to make the full game more meaningful. It isn't executed particularly well, and isn't fun and hasn't been whenever its been implemented in other titles like Humankind.
>>724329868nah, just go CIV 4 combatactually just go CIV4 everythings, its perfectmaybe just switch to hexes, nobody will notice its the same perfect game
>>724329991>So maybe they'll stop with the Harriet bullshitThat aspect I can't see changing. They've doubled down on it every game since 5. 5 was actually fine and the leader choices weren't TOO out there, but you can at least tell that's when it started.
>>724323513Wait you switch civs as you play in civ vii?I stopped playing with Civ 5 because I like strategy games not board games
>Harriet Tubman
>>724331247Civ 4 + Fall from Heaven 2? Kino time. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5lGuL7N25I
I never played any X4 game that did this but conceptually It's hard for me to think of a worse idea
>>724329991>>724331474Why couldn't they have just used Kamala HarrisShe's ticks about 5 different diversity boxes and was puppeteering Biden from behind the curtain for ~4 years meaning she was actually a sort of leader
>>724323513think they'll learn?
Iunno, Civ 7 is pretty cool. It eschews a lot of 4X traditions for the better. You can change your capital free of charge, so your starting location isn't that important. War is great, the perfect fusion between ease of movement and tactical depth.
>>724324280>another female civfuck off with that shitthere are almost zero notable women that changed the course of historyother than cleopatra and some russian and british women
>>724332550But that's also why it has sold very very poorly. Most people that play 4x titles, and especially Civ, specifically want those established traditions. If you take into account the size of the gaming industry during each release, I believe it sold even worse than Civ 4, let alone 5 and 6.
>>724331474Ada Lovelace is honestly even worse. Tubman did barely anything of note. Lovelace did literally nothing of note. Not to mention she even sucks as a DEI addition since the nation she represents already has prominent female rulers that could have been chosen.
>>724323513Giant earth 50 civs extended eras are impossible in that game, no?
>>724324280>Ottomans>led by a woman>...Ottomans...>...led by a fucking woman...niggerman save me. I am going insane
>>724333407we must be better ottomen...
>>724333407they could course now if they really wanted but they have no intention to
>>724333538course correct*
>>724324242This is so weird to me. I just cant grasp the logic>I play a game of "guide civilization through ages">I pick certain civilization>"Lets force player to change civilization 30% of the way in. He picked Greece so he surely wanted to play China instead" Statements dreamt up by the utterly deranged
>>724333796the players cant grasp the logic either so they dont play the game
>>724330926>at least half the appeal of Civ as a series is Romans, the Mongol Horde, and Aztecs fighting a modern war with tanks and jets>remove this appeal by hard-limiting civ selections to an era>also make it reset shit just in case you were here to have fun with the snowballing that makes up the other half of civ as a franchise's appealthe genius of firaxis is boundless
>>724333407Sayyida Al Hurra was not even Ottoman, she was Andalusian Moor. If they really wanted a female leader for Ottomans they could have gone with Roxelana (pic related) who was Suleiman's favorite wife and held political power through him. There was also another influential Ottoman sultan's wife Nurbanu (originally Cecilia Venier-Baffo) who was originally an enslaved Venetian noblewoman and died suspiciously, possibly poisoned by Genoan spies because she was trying to influence Ottoman policies to be more pro-Venetian.
>>724333146...she's really in the game?
>>724334350
>>724333796The actual idea to try to reduce snowballing and make the endgame more meaningful is something that could have reasonably been discussed. Seeing how everyone hated this approach in Humankind and fundamentally changing the core game based on that discussion was remarkably stupid though.
>>724333796>China is the only civ that you can play as from beginning to endI wonder what audience they were trying to reach with this.
>>724334350Yes, she's the representative for the British Empire. The most powerful empire to ever exist is led by a woman who held no power and left no legacy.
>>724334504You can also play as Indians (their "eras" have different names but they're all the same shit).
>>724334249not brown and gay enough
>>724334465I get the idea of reducing snowballing, but fail to see why it has to be intertwined with forced civ changing. Reducing snowballing is a reasonable and commendable design choice. Removing the core gameplay mechanic isnt. I'm befuddled by latter.
>>724331737they have a policy of not having leaders be too recent. having mao in IV was controversial enough, someone who is still alive would definitely be a no go
>>724323513They should have simply had your leader die of old age and have you pick a new one instead of the whole civ swapping
>>724334834I think even that was sort of misread though. Sure end game truly did tend to get boring and tedious, but it's also true that most players simply enjoy early game more. That's why people restarted so much and didn't finish games. I guess something that can be asked then, is there anything actually wrong with that? Why is it so important they entice people to finish games? It didn't seem to be a barrier to actually playing the game itself.
>>724335136Funny because Mao and Stalin were series mainstays until 4.
>>724331737She lost against a literal retard, she's not going to be made a leader anytime soon.
>>724331474>>724333146Civ 6 got a little funky but 7 REALLY feels like some snobby cunt at the company wanted to do something "different" and told workers "people are tired of Napoleon and Augustus"
>>724334504China but they tend to avoid games with ugly people.
>>724323513Play testing a mechanic that was the core of every other game in the series. There's no saving civ.
>>724323513Okay.I'm still not interested unless they remove all the woke.
>>724324280At this point they're trying their best to be offensive because the Ottoman leader wasn't even an OttomanHow hard is it to pick 1 (ONE) Ottoman leader when the said Empire is one of the longest lasting empires in the first place, you could throw darts at a board and get someone more interesting and fitting
>>724324280Its a shame about making the Ottoman leader a women for some fucking reason when you have so many great picks for them. ngl though that pirate one sounds neat on the surface.
>>724336553Turks have too much white adjacent privilege, need to have more oppressed (in modern view) character.
>>724324280If they wanted a woman leader for the ottomans, why not pick the crazy redhead that actually did lead the empire for a while and someone random that isnt even from that faction
>>724330071even worsetake a stack of bricks that was handed to you to improve on, and pull it down because you think you can stack it higher... and you can't even manage half
>>724336358this got me wondering if there's a way to estimate how many women worked on a game based on its historical accuracy
>>724334504>>724334678thisthey were selling the games to the new populators of the world. shame those people lack the faustian spirit that the civ games are rooted in
>>724335325Indeed, why fix what isnt broken? And this isnt some issue that prevented Civs from reaching cult status either, all 4x games "suffer" from campaign attrition. It just seems very risky thing to fiddle with so extensively. Then again...>>724336358This could be it. This is a tale as old as time. There's a game with established market and fanbase, then some higher up decides "we'll take series into brave new direction". As a surprise to no one, people who wanted Game X: vol 2 dont want to Game X: vol 2 (now without game x mechanics)
Women aside, putting Confucius as a leader was also really strange decision and probably just China pandering (that once again did not pay off).
>>724323513can I still infect people with the super AIDS religion?
civilization games suck now
>>724337092>>724337313I think it's ego, like a creative director with a major in history now thinks they're hot shit. Look, I get how you can worry about your series stagnating but a monopolistically competitive game like Civ really does not need to shake things up that hard to keep people coming back
>>724338208even the yearly sports games bleed players because they'll take out a feature everyone loved and replace it with some microtransaction bullshit or FOMO nonsensegod why did i have to live during a time when accountability is dead
>>724338332i bet the people who play those are fucking pissed at those of us making fun of them for playing the same shit every year. look at what making changes did.
>>724337981Just curious: I dont see unique buildinds or Tile Improvements in these? Did those get axed? Building Baths everywhere as Rome or Great Wall as China was peak fun.
>>724337981that mementos bonus level grinding was one of the more offensive things in VII to me
>>724338332I think that's more EA suits trying to wring every last dollar dry. From what I hear whales make up for like 90% of gacha income, so some rich retard buying a gorrillian dollars in ultiamte team cards brings in more money than little carlos from uruguay who just buys the game once
>>724337981I think Confucius and Ben Franklin are both fine picks and they are exactly what non-leader leaders should be. Sure, they never held top office, but their ideas definitively shaped their nations in readily apparent ways. There's potential in this idea (I personally think a Cardinal Richelieu France would be cool), but it's obvious Ben and Confucius were a Trojan horse for far shittier choices like Tubman and Lovelace.
>>724338612Civilizations still have unique buildings, they just change every civ swap
>>724338907Thanks, at least thats something. I'm a filthy casual who always preferred factions with tile improvements over ones that dont have them because I like how they look.
>>724328628i appreciate your autistic rant
>>724338907Do your unique buildings from civs in a previous age stay around and provide bonuses or do they get dusted when you're forced to change civs?
>>724339832Yes, they persist once they are built.
>>724339832Depends on the building. The ones that are just existing building with a +1 or whatever get replaced by the next tier. The ones with actual unique effects stick around.
>>724323513Too little too late. You still have to play as that nigger woman.
