Was the genophage justified?
Yes, if anything it wasn't enough.
>>724441271Yes and we should do it IRL
>>724441271No, and anyone who says it was is retarded.
>bred like rabbits>live for thousands of years>damn near unkillable>almost all of them love killing thingshonestly I have no idea what the council races' other option was once they let them loose from being confined to their own planet.
Yes, the same way Frieza was justified in blowing up all the Saiyans.
They shouldn't have been uplifted in the first place just because the already interstellar civilizations needed disposable AND willing soldiers to fight ze bugs. Giving a bunch of hyper-aggressive retard cavemen frogs spaceships and mass effect weaponry after they had already nuked their own civilization back into fighting with sticks and stones and then going OOPSIE DOOPSIE WE MADE A FUCKY-WUCKY LOL NOW WE'LL GENETICALLY CURSE YOUR ENTIRE RACE LOL DEAL W/ IT seems a bit unfair to me. Why didn't they just genophage the Rachni instead and not create the Krogan problem in the first place?
>>724441487Not using them as bioweapons perhaps.
>>724442089Rachni are too adaptable is my guess. The right way to do that was probably study Rachni and discover that the aggressive ones are unwell and figure out how to at least neutralise them. Worse comes to worst, destroy the relays in their systems from their side (timed bombs).
>>724441271if the Genophage never happened, then the Alliance would have been crippled by endless war, and the humans wouldn't have had the opportunity to save the day. so yes, objectively yes.
>>724442642The rachni were too hard to kill for regular forces because their queens lived on hothouse worlds with posionous atmospheres. Only the krogans could take the heat, so to speak. The krogans being able to outbreed the insects helped as well.
>>724442863should have asked the Geth nicely
>>724442041How could you even say that
The krogan shitting out a gorillion eggs in each clutch is incredibly fucking retarded, the genophage is the only sensible response to this part of their lore that wouldn't result in the galaxy falling apart from krogan population explosions alone.
>>724442863Huh. I don't remember this bit. In this case they could simply built huge mass accelerator cannons, added engines to them, escorted them into the systems in question and hit each planet a hostile queen is on. Sure, would have taken a few days for the projectiles to reach each planet but other than that it's a guaranteed kill.
>>724443029Not giving them spaceships before they've outgrown unga bunga phase is way better. If they can develop spaceflight means on their own, they have to learn how to not be a braindead plague of locusts way before that.
>>724441487All the Krogan needed to do was not try to take over other worlds for their own personal gain. I find it hard to believe they could run a planet dry of resources so quickly.
>>724441271
>>724443281>All the Krogan needed to do was not try to take over other worlds for their own personal gain.Imagine giving sentinelese fighter jets and destroyers.
>>724443291But that's exactly what they are
It's really funny how a bunch of you are too racist to pick up on anti racist sci fi messages
>>724443058>I don't remember this bit. IIt's in the codex, either in the part about krogans or the rachnii wars.
Shepard proves that the krogan will do whatever the fuck you want as long as you aren't a cowardly backstabbing jew and deal with them on even terms. The idea that they were reliant on other races to maintain their position made the salarians seethe so they punished the krogan for their own embarrassment total salarian death
>>724441271Imagine Indians, but aliens...
>>724443591Thanks, I'll check that on a replay. I think I've only thoroughly read all Codex entries during my first run so that was about 18 years ago now, apparently.
>>724443058Also the rachnii queens lived in caves, so there's no guarantee that destroying a planet would actually finish off the queens. Besides, there's a lot of laws in Mass Effect regarding the destruction of planets and how using FTL ramming is not allowed (this is specifically talked about in the ME3 codex).
Wrex was the individual where as the rest of the krogan were the group that needed putting down.
>>724443679Crogan are physically powerful, corageous to the point of stupidity, fairly industrious and they do have successful engineers and inventors.
depends entirely on whether or not sheppard allows wrex to go on to lead the krogan. with wrex in charge there is at least a chance for them to civilize
>>724443507Wrex is alot more pragmatic amongst his people. Almost every other Krogan you meet in ME1 is a merc or impatient, sometimes both. I guess this comes with age since hes a veteran of the Krogan Rebellions.
>>724443717>cavesMy good man, hitting a planet with a capital ship-sized mass accelerator is going to turn its surface into magma and evaporate its oceans. So it will be a liquid dented metallic core covered by a fractured outer core with lots of magma everywhere otherwise. For Earth-like planets. The atmosphere would be lost probably.
>>724442041Because a cat god told him to?
>>724441271Yes and believing that wrex was going to prevent another galactic chimpout because of "le stronk women" was stupid.
>>724441271Genocide is only justified against white men and ugly women.
>>724443582Elaborate
>>724441271Genophage is not a good thing and the question is did it prevent total krogan extinction in a full scale war.
>>724443717>a lot of laws in Mass Effect regarding the destruction of planets and how using FTL ramming is not allowed (this is specifically talked about in the ME3 codex).Also I really should've addressed that right away, but it;s so obvious I'm not sure why you brought it up. Imagine:- Nooo, we can't do that because that's against the law!- But we are the victims of this war of unprovoked aggression.- Muh laaaaw!- They refuse to negotiate, they threaten us with extinction, all of our species, and there is no other way.- MUH LAAAAAAAW!
>>724444148If starting the genophage is dropping nukes on japan then the genophage continuing is "what if those 2 bombs turned the entire archipelago into chernobyl"
>>724441271Total Krogan genocide was justified.
>>724441271Based on how the games portray Krogan- no. Like it's impossible to justify it because, while they are aggressive, they're not anymore cruel or vicious as some of the species you run into.Seems like the Krogan of that past just had some 10/10 leadership that put the screws to the Council after having their race used as literal bioweapons in a genocide war against space bugs.I'd be looking for my pound of flesh as well, as would humanity if they were used in the same way. What does the Council do? Make the fucking genophage. They didn't do it against the Rachni, but they did to the Krogan once they didn't have a convenient weapon to turn to. Just saying, the games just make it look like the Council revised history to conveniently support the genophage and the Krogan had to deal with eons of degeneration because of it.
>1000 eggs per krogan female They're going to overrun the galaxy
>>724443582oh we pick up on it, there's nothing subtle about it
>>724441271In ME1 it was insinuated that the krogan were slowly going extinct from the genophage. Then in ME2 the guy who designed the genophage explicitly says the krogan popualtion is stable and being monitered. This makes sense as your information in ME1 is from a jaded krogan and then rectified by someone who should know everything about the genophage. But then in ME3 it is a major plot point that the krogan are going extinct and the moral choice is to cure them. Then again Mordin died at the end of 2 for me, so I might have missed some information from him in 3
>>724444590Remember the quest where you get to see the geth's POV white washing them as much as possible? I rememberME3 was anything but subtle
>>724444625They are going extinct in 3 because every race is going extinct in 3 and krogan genophage birthrates cannot replace their population if they fight the reapers.
>>724444625>and the moral choice is to cure themthe moral choice is to pretend to cure them :)
>>724444441The Krogan were proud to be used as weapons. The Krogan war started because they refused to stop colonizing worlds, even if the world was already colonized by a different species.
>>724444625The genophage IS supposed to keep them stable, but it doesn't because the krogan as a species are incapable of not acting like savage barbarians that are constantly fighting someone or something (including themselves) Having most of their babies die in stillbirth doesn't help, and it just encourages them even more to act like savages
>>724443582I don't think those messages were present at all in ME1. ME2 was kinda balanced although it retconned a few characters and ME3 went full gay.
>>724441271No but only because they tried to maintain the pretense that it wasn't a genocide. If you're at the point where you're genetically modifying your opps you should really just own it. Either kill them all or give them a path to recovery, not a retarded half-measure.>what do you mean their women don't enjoy getting fucked in a pen by 50 complete strangers and their men would rather just dead end in a blue bitch instead of getting sloppy 32nds + never knowing their own child if they can even have one, if they just did that their population would stabilize!Also the Council stopped the garden world gibs, which makes no sense since the whole issue was caused by Krogan having it too easy on planets that aren't Tuchanka. Would have taken the sting off and underlined their point since they wouldn't get ruined by overpopulation in 1-2 generations.
>>724444941Despite how many become mercenaries, krogan really aren't portrayed as like thieves and the kind of people that would undermine societal cohesion. That role went to the quarians and batarians.
>>724445073>Also the Council stopped the garden world gibs, which makes no senseIt makes perfect sense. The krogan took more worlds than was agreed upon and then they started attacking council races and taunting them.
>>724444196The Council is often really retarded about laws.They had limits on each species as to how many really big battleships each could have in their navy, so humans just made a shit ton of essentially space-aircraft carriers to circumvent the rule.
>>724445112The entire reason why the genophage was deployed to begin with was because the krogan started taking over worlds that didn't belong to them
>>724445254Caring about laws and regulation flat out stops when it's the survival of your people. It's really a luxury.
>>724443368They wouldn't do shit with them Krogan are intelligent enough to use themThat's the problem They are not actually stupid. they just don't give a single shit collectively. even wrex walk around acting like the rules shouldn't apply to him. you literally meet him arguing with the cops. over killing someone.
>>724445324You understand perfectly well what I meant by that analogy. Stentinelese aren't stupid as well, they're culturally hostile to our ways which extends to our technology.
>>724444625>But then in ME3 it is a major plot point that the krogan are going extinct and the moral choice is to cure themThey try to guilt you to cure it because wrex wants to and he's a fan favorite but really it's just to get more disposable cannon fodder to fling themselves at colossal death machines that can solo entire fleets and are the size of small cities.
>>724445539>Sir that reaper just crushed another krogan battalion! What do we do!?>Send in 10 more immediately! Soon all the blood will cause it to slip then we'll strike while it's fallen down!
>>724444005>SHITper fanfictionNot canon>b-b-b-but BoG was Z!Not canon
>>724445657>all kill bots have a built in kill limit>we'll send wave after wave of men directly into their line of fire until they shut down
>>724445539The idea that Krogans present a danger because of their population growth is retarded in the first place, because that's not how industrial war works, much less one that is fought in space, but whatever, you just gotta accept some tropes.
yes, a non fucktarded species would've arrived at a similar concept of managing population control regardless. at least in the first game anyway later games made it retarded by having most krogan women be entirely infertile giving birth to thousands of stillbirths instead of just having every woman only have 2/1000 eggs viable per clutch.>>724443029nah it makes sense given conditions on tuchankathe whole issue of the krogan was the salarians took a species that had evolved to handle the hellish conditions of their homeworld post nukes and let them loose on a galaxy where they're free to expand but haven't actually changed their biological conditions from their tuchanka baseline
>>724444820>pretend to cure them>kill Mordin>kill Wrex>tell the truth to GarrusYep, it's peak drama kino time
>>724445320The Asari would have the melty to end all melties.
>>724443928Funny how all the krogan are off planet killing people and being killed instead of building a society. >>724443580>aaaaa the salarians stopped me from pumping out 4000 krogan a year who each do the samekek
>>724444005Super is fake and gay.
>>724445869Honestly the Council could just as easily taken down all ships Krogan had access to and strand them back on their planet, which would naturally keep their population in check and the they'd have no idea how to build or fix a ship to get off.A lot of the spacefaring bits of the ME verse stop making sense when one considers every Mass Relay is a choke-point for traveling to anywhere else in the galaxy, in a reasonable amount of time and fuel.
>>724445254There's nothing retarded about arms limitation treaties, though.
>>724445254anon that's based on historical naval treaties in the interwar years after ww1washington naval treaty in particular
>>724443291I always thought krogans were a lot bulkier
>>724444820honestly if you kill wrex in 1 and dont save the data in 2 you're fully justified in keeping the genophage, wreav led krogan would just be rebellions 2.0 without it
>hear about the genophage in ME 1>already think krogans deserved it but we'll see what happens>destroy data in ME 2 cause fuck the monsters despite Dr. Frakenstein's pleas>complete Turchanka in ME 3>Wrex suddenly is all butthurt cause he somehow found out I fucked him over>put him down cause shits already fucked anyways>get red ending>mfwNone of it fucking matters and I hate remembering that.
>>724446224They are, and taller too
>>724446071There are krogan engineers and scientists. The problem isn't that they're retarded. They don't care. They reproduce as a natural desire and then there's too many and they need to expand.
>>724446770How is this "too many" translates into a space fleet when they are stuck on one bombed-out planet without eezo?
>>724443029The reason why the war even happened was that the krogans colonized an asari world because of their rapid breeding cycle. But the milky way probably has tens of billions of planets to settle on that wouldn't trigger a massive war. The krogan could've expanded for half a million years before the council even noticed but didn't because they were lazy and thought killing things was more fun.
>>724445869its that they're immensely strong and durable, not just that they breed quicklythey're are, literally, an invasive species with no natural predator. like cats.
>>724446224Only in certain cutscenes. Bioware isn't competent enough to do more than standard sized squad in gameplay.
>>724443610Total Salarian death. Total Krogan death. Total Batarian death. Total Asari enslavement. Total Quarian coof. Total Turian, Elcor, and Hanar bros for life.
>>724447710Also we're never even told HOW the genophage was used. The krogans probably had a bunch of different worlds they settled on and tuchanka would've been heavily fortified against any sort of attack or infiltration but somehow the turians were able to infect every single krogan with it throughout their empire and every major warzone. I assume entire oceans of water were chemicalized to turn the frogs gay but the codex writer was too busy running an LGBT friendly D&D campaign to write that down.
>>724448315What about the geth, yahg and vorcha?
>>724448449total yahg deathtotal vorcha deathgeth bros are best bros 4 life
>>724448183Not strong and durable enough to fight spaceships, which is what they would need to do to be an actual relevant power.
>>724448392If it's a virus they must have simply started with every safe spot in Citadel space and then nature took its course.
>>724444489That's 1000 eggs per clutch, and a clutch can be had yearly, and if not dying to war those females can live 1400+ yearsGenophage is needed
>>724443291nigga looks like the guy from star wars rebels
>>724445073To be fair the salarians (especially the ones who made the genophage) were outrageously autistic.
>>724443582The problem with sci-fi and fantasy race metaphors is always that the aliens/mutants/robots/elves/whatever actually are different in the world of the story, which contradicts the whole point. It both makes their oppression nonsensical (If black people could shoot lasers out of their eyes do you really think they would have still been enslaved?) But also misses the point that real world racism is wrong for the precise reason that we are more or less all the same and a single species (seriously look up Homo sapiens horrific lack of genetic diversity compared to basically every other mammal) and that "races" are blurry, arbitrary and not based on actual genetic closeness. You can't say "racism is bad" but make the victims actually capable of destroying the world if they aren't kept "under control".
>>724449179>If black people could shoot lasers out of their eyes do you really think they would have still been enslaved?Yes. By other blacks. Just like IRL. Yes, I'm not him because he's a "culture warrior", regardless of the side.
>>724444820>>724445923The whole genophage plot is uniquely responsive to your choices in a way most other plots aren't and the sabotage route where you lie to almost everyone to get the Salarians on board is peak renegade. I wish all of 3 was like that part.
>>724441271Yes, simply because Krogan are unworthy of anything but slavery. They are retarded cattle and cannot be left to their own devices.
>>724449179>real world racism is wrong for the precise reason that we are more or less all the same and a single species (seriously look up Homo sapiens horrific lack of genetic diversity compared to basically every other mammal)There's more genetic difference between Chinese and African Pygmies than there is between pitbulls and golden retrievers, yet I think most people recognize retrievers and pitbulls are inherently different in behavior.
ive been playing mass effect 1 and it's extremely boring. I wasn't expecting Star Trek quality... or KOTOR quality but this is just fucking garbage. Gen X and their Gen Z spawns are fucking putrid
>>724450221hi satan :)
>>724450221why is it boring?
>>724450383no lightsoisabers no darth vaderno captain picard0/10
>>724441271>strong>powerful>breed like rabbitthese traits alone guarantee genophage. they should be glad that it doesn't outright kill them, just quarantine their birthrate to resonnable degree. you can't trust someone who has a prospect to be more poweful than you, that is what it's like to be intelligent sentient animals - like us - like humans.
>>724450383probably the giant empty planets where if youre lucky you find a "dungeon" that is literally a direct copy of the last 500 you found, even down to having identical enemy placement and actions since they couldn't even be bothered to switch that up, so you end up with even more copy-pasted dungeons than oblivion, which at least have the decency to have different lay outs and enemy placement in every dungeon. first game is pretty fucking rough, trying to do a lot, and highly original, which is cool and all, but the result is an absolute mountain of jank
how is it racist for wanting to contain some rabid animals' birth-control? i mean.... we do that by nurturing dogs, cats, horses, etc. all the time. krogans weren't supposed to be civilized but they did it out of necessary and genophage doesn't kill them too. Wrex alone cannot control entire krogan society. Have you ever seen any national leaders telling his people stop shooting other countries by words alone? Wrex is fucking moron thinking he can control the tribe.
>>724450171Humans have one of the lowest genetic diversities among any large vertebrate. For example our closet relatives the Chimps, which are limited to a small number of isolated groups, have better genetic diversity than we do. Humans had a massive population bottleneck less than a million years that reduced our entire species to as few as a few hundred individuals on the whole planet. As a species we're practically incestual. Our unique interconnected global settlement patterns (even in the Stone Age there were international trade routes) means that human populations never become reproductively isolated from the global species gene pool for long enough for the level of speciation that affects other species to affect us (other species that move too geographically far away from the original population often become physically separated and thus unable to interbreed and prevent divergences from arising between the populations. This means it's next to impossible for differences larger than minor heat/weather adaptions (that are so minor as to be easily reversed in only a generation or two) to arise since every population is has always been constantly getting genetic influx from the global gene pool. Even the Native Americans were getting old world genetic inflow through the Polynesians and Siberians.
>>724451950Pretty much everything you just said is wrong.
>>724452047wtf you can't post science just like that
>>724452047Ah yes look at these different races skulls, oh wait they're all "white" peoples individual skulls just vary like their faces do.
>>724441271Yes and no. Krogan are a menace
>>724441271how many years do we have to keep doing thisobjectively it was, objectively krogan were dogshit and refused to control themselvestheir birth rate needed to be kneecapped, period. if you could do that without making them birth a bunch of dead babies sure, go ahead that's great, but if you can't it is what it is the end result is an unavoidable neccessityalso >>724441362 is correct, we should very much neuter the vast majority of 3rd worlders, it's the same issue just on a much lesser scale
>>724443582We choose to base our beliefs on reality rather than fiction
>>724450840filtered by true kino, many such casesthe limitations are what make it so utterly beautiful
>>724452865Cool, so show me a white person with the same skull as the one on the left of the pic I posted.
The krogans had to be put down out of necessity, because they were dumb violent niggers that were given access to advanced tech. But they're just dumb niggers. The salarians are fucking insane, and honestly the much greater threat.
>>724453013This but Kotor not mass effect kek
>>724443582It's too bad that any real life experience with diversity contradicts the fantastical messages of video game writers
>>724444441>Like it's impossible to justify it because, while they are aggressive, they're not anymore cruel or vicious as some of the species you run into.How are you this retarded. They are objectively worse because there are 1 billion times the number of them you clown. It doesn't matter if anyone else is equally as cruel or vicious, because everyone else doesn't have infinity billion population that grows at a retardedly exponential rate.If the krogan were peaceful and high iq, their OWN people would inevitably - and quickly - have to come to the same conclusion that drastically reducing their population growth is a necessity.It is an unsolvable math problem if you leave it alone and it breaks everything.Everything around it is just "boo hoo feel bad" emotional manipulation and emotional arguments that ultimately DO NOT MATTER. It is a very straight forward math issue, emotions do not come into it, an unfortunate necessity that makes you feel bad is still a necessity so get the fuck over it and deal with it.
>>724441271the contradictions around it annoy melike mordin says that it would have been much easier to make a straight up death plague that would kill all krogan, which implies that in the krogan war they must have already really had the upper hand over the krogan to use such a slow acting generational weaponbut then different writers also constantly imply that the genophage was this great WMD that won the war by itselfmordin's arguments in 2 seem a lot more real and serious, then in 3 they're like nah he was just rationalizing and ANYONE BUT FASCISTS would let the krogan's population quadruple every decade and thank them for it
>>724452865You have to be willfully obtuse to say that the only difference there is size.
>>724453640Correct those skulls are all noticeably different shapes despite all being from the Europeans.
>>724453640>exaggerates the forehead>exaggerates the nose>flattens the "fixed" face instead of giving it a normal shape like the one belowWho even falls for this shit anymore?
Garrus knew
>>724453992It's obvious that some civilizations are more advanced than others because of climate conditions. Denying this makes you racist, it's no one fault.
>>724452865>>724454120You do know that forensic scientists use skulls to determine race today? Its not a fringe internet theory
