damn... is Dark Souls 3 is really just a straight line? wow
>>724586276Dames for this feel?
>>724587461metro 2033huehuehue
>>724587461Metro Last Light
>>724587461such a kino metro system
>>724586276But I though Dark Souls 2 was le bad!
>maze = goodare we still on this in the big year of 2025?
They also scrapped Oceiros' original zone and shuffled the bosses around to fit him into the game. Oceiros was moved to the Mausoleum, renamed to "Consumed kings garden". Gundyr was supposed to be the King but he was moved to the Cemetery. Yhorm was supposed to be fought in the cemetery, but was moved to the profaned capital. And wolnir was supposed to be fought in the capital, but was moved to a void outside the map.
>>724588664Wolnir was probably just placed there for the trailer because the room was finished and it made him feel massive.If you notice, he's clipping through the entire map behind him. That room works for Yhorm because it makes him feel larger than he actually is. He's the smallest giant in the game, but in that room, he feels huge.
WHERE THE FUCK IS MY BACKTRACKING? I WANNA GO AROUND IN CIRCLES AND SEE THE SAME SHIT OVER AND OVER. DS3 SUX
>>724586276Is this bad?I am sorry, I just don’t understand what makes linear design worse
>>724589681One of the best aspects of DS1 is that it felt like you were traveling a real world that had connections between parts of it that made some kind of sense. Losing that made the world feel less grounded and tightly designed. You could move any given area in DS3 to a totally new location and it wouldn't change anything about the game, because the layout was arbitrary. In the story itself, the world is a random mishmash of disconnected chunks that are rammed together by the laws of physics breaking down.
DS2 would've been much better if fast travel was unlocked later, some areas can lead to a softlock forcing the player to push forward.This is only evident when doing no-bonfire.
>>724589396Its not the trailer, its a leaked screenshot. It all does work out pretty well in the end though. Guess FROM can pull better stories out of their asses than other devs can write at all
>>724587881>maze = bad>straight line = goodare we still on this in the big year of 2025?
>>724586276It has linear world design but the best level design of all the Souls games. DaS is balance of both. DaS2 is a shitty hub and spoke world with terrible individual levels.
>>724590657Writing the story in vague snippets allows them to move stuff around up until the last minute, which they always seem to do. It also makes the story feel either mysterious and intriguing, or pointless but unintrusive, depending on the player. It's a smart approach
Dark Souls 2 GOODDark Souls 3 BAD
>>724586276I like them all
>>724587764it is
>>724591530 this is what loretards don't get. that all the specific details are just nudges and implications for a feeling of immersion when exploring this world first hand. I think Miyazaki might be one of the only people in the industry to actually understand consciously why the team ICO games are good. Most people seem to think that video game "storytelling" is better the more similar to either movies or books.
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTD_um5sc30bros, how do we go back before the ds3 mistake
>>724586276>>724587764>stealth attempt at boosting DS2'S reputation through boasting his game's messy shallow "area interconnectivity" as final resort because deep down he knows DS2's gameplay is irredeemable dogshit so humble-bragging about this meaningless flowchart is all he has going forHave some shame OP. Once we really get down to actual discussion, smart people knows how to poke holes at DS2's flawed level design. Be humble and accept that your game is dogshit.
>>724592976
>>724587764I am a DS2 fan but the structure still isn't great. The branches at the start are solid but not amazing, and it becomes linear + DLC for the second part. It can't compare to DS1 kino.
>>724586276Wrong.
>>724586276The map for DS2 is intentionally disingenuous though, because it doesn't give you a sense that the entire 2nd half the of the game is a straight line in terms of progression. As soon as you move on to Drangleic Castle you're locked into a singular route, regardless of if you have to go back to another area just to continue said route.
>>724591053na DS3 has the worst individual levels without a doubt. they focused on making it a very boss centric game and it shows... the levels are so bad it created it's own breed of dark souls fan, that just tries to run past everything and rush from boss to boss, because to them thats all the game is, a hallway of bosses.
>>724592976>the games geography is a dimentia simulator>it's character accurate>floating volcano castle above a windmillHOLY KINO I KNEEL
>>724594325??? it's just literally a transit map showing the possible ways you can travel between the levels of each game. """intentionally disingenuous""" honestly you need to go back
>>724594517this
>>724592976i liked how batshit nonsensical the DS2 map flow was. you don't sound very smart at all!
>>724587461Such a cool setting. The book comes with a map that shows all the factions, destroyed stations, collapsed tunnels, radiation or other danger etc., but you're never quite sure if its actually accurate, based on rumours or completely made up
>>724591672YesAnd DS1 falls somewhere in the middle because it has a 10/10 first half, and a 0/10 second half
>>724594517Running past enemies is the standard in any Souls games once you do an area more than once.
>>724594998Time is uhh uhh uhh convoluted
>>724594517>na DS3 has the worst individual levels without a doubt.Nigger, look at the literal maps I posted. You can't pretend the DaS3 map is bad and the DaS2 maps are fine.>a hallway of bosses.>a hallwayThe only hallways I showed were in DaS2.
>>724595368that was a bad translation, the original jp line is that time is stagnant.the more relevant thing for ds2 though is the metaphor of the curse being about dementia and old age in general. nearly all of the characters you talk to don't remember how they ended up in drangleic. and it's why your character can end up in strange places that dont make sense. it's a ludonarrative
>>724595507I don't care what the map of undead settlement looks like, it's one of the most unappealing levels to play in the entire series, and due to the extremely linear structure of ds3 there is no way of skipping it or shortening it
>>724595507>look at my cherry picked data or else i'm gonna chimp out!No thanks, I have a brain a memory. DS3 levels are awful, I played them. DS2 base game levels are okay, the DLC levels are god tier.
>>724586276Without the DLC it's even more stark. What were they thinking???
>>724595816>I don't care what the map looks likeOkay, retard.>>724596080>Cherry pickedI put 4 fucking DaS2 maps in that image, and DaS3 has plenty of large, open and interconnected levels.
>>724586276>ds3 linear bad>deS linear x5 goodWhat causes this? Is it autism?
>>724593761i really feel like these should be made in gameplay progression order. Only DeS, DS1, and DS2 really allow you to progress outside a flat path and even then DS1 still bottlenecks you at points.
>>724596806>not knowing the definition of cherry pickedwow... wow
>>724598023>representative examples are cherry pickingYou're a stupid fucking nigger. Now post counter examples or shut the fuck up. Those are your only 2 options.
>>724591053why does it have the best individual level design? the normal enemies and hazards are incredibly boring for such a huge portion of the game that it feels like a gigantic slog
>>724596825des had cool levels for the style of game it is and the encounters are interestingi played the souls trilogy recently and about 50% of dark souls 3 felt incredibly boring
>>724595073Demon Ruins and Izalith is like 10-15%, not "half," anon
>>724596825The levels/areas
>>724587461Dark souls 1
>>724596825>DeS: You can pick between 5 areas, can do them in whatever order you fancy>DaS3: You can pick between 1 (ONE) area (sometimes 2)I dunno man, you tell me. Retard.
ds3's levels (souls games in general) would be better off if they removed massive I-frame on interactables. enemies in ds3 are just fake and serve no purporse *unless you want shinies
>>724590657>It all does work out pretty well in the end though.it really doesn't though
>>724598912You're right.They're far better in ds3
>>724586276All better than ER
>>724599102>DeS: You have to complete the branch pathways to finish the game which equates to going in one big straight line.>Ds3: There are offshoot paths and even early access to the dlc that you can do optionally giving you more options.Yep, it's retardation
>>724598163one of your ds2 "levels" is literally just one of the boss arenas. your examples are so laughably bad it's self explanatory that you're a retard and cherry picking. fine counter examples would be any of the rest of the fucking game. thats what cherry picking means retard
>>724599462Video games would be better if they just took all the game out. Then you could just click to open and then close *unless you want to leave it open
>>724599597I dont want everybody to yell at me althoughbeit's
>>724599905making your build in DeS: you have full freedom to early rush the areas with the items you needmaking your build in DS3: you have to finish 90% of the game to reach your item, no alternate way of reaching itYep, it is retarded!
>>724587764Muh branching. "insert sojak.jpeg"
>>724599905>Having to beat branching paths in whatever order you wish = going in a straight line>Most of the game being a single series of levels placed in a row with one or two branching optional levels = nonlinearitySure is.
>>724587764>"More lines = good!1"It's still shit.
>>724586276>DS3 >crampedSouls player forgetting lore now it seems.
>>724599985>no examples Shut the fuck up, you retarded nigger.
>>724598356>why does it have the best individual level design?Large levels with multiple interconnected routes, verticality, and good encounter design.
>>724600161And that's ds3. What did you even mean by that? Do you need examples?>Farron keep>barely have to fight enemies, even when the game clearly wanted you to because *lighting the torch has i-frame>Cathedral>Ten exploive undeads followed you to back gate and killed themselves while you *i-framed through their explosions>Road of Sacrifices>don't have to fight the knight, *just i-frame through the door>Undead Settlement>a midget jumps on you while you're busy *i-framing the door>Prince lothric>three knights stand guarding the fog gate but it won't matter cause *i-frameJust some examples. These should've been meaningful encounters but they were not. They're just fake.
>>724593761I fucking love DS1 bros. Navigating that map is always good. I did one playthrough recently and then started a second one, just to play it more. Yes I probably am autistic, I don't care.
>>724594517>the levels are so bad it created it's own breed of dark souls fan, that just tries to run past everything and rush from boss to boss, because to them thats all the game is, a hallway of bosses.You're projecting again, 2 tranny
>>724587461hellgate: london
>>724589898>rammed together mismashedThis is it. In DS3 time and space are falling apart, and the world is converging into a single point, pulled into the Kiln of the First Flame.Start of game>everything starts breaking, fading, biomes and locales getting closer over timeEnd of game>time/space finally breaks, everything converges towards the KilnRinged City>the "true ending" of the world, everything is gone, vast desert planetAriandel>a new beginning, new world, inside a paintingIt's part of the lore. They could've make it grander, bigger world than DS1, DS2, and still interconnected like DS1, but they chose the layout of DS3 because it made more sense as the ending for the saga. Souls is no more, it's done. Unless they make a new one and call it something else related to the painting. Most of the locales in DS3 are bigger than DS1 anyway, it's just the game lost the interconnecting feel because of the mishmashed biomes. They even acknowledged DS2's existence in Ringed City DLC. Parts in Dreg Heap are the ruins of Earthen Peak from DS2. Everything converged into each other.
In hindsight it's crazy how most of DaS3s gameplay innovations were lifted from DaS2, and then Elden Ring went on to borrow even more from DaS2 while memoryholing the linear button mashing gameplay from 3. That said, Elden Ring is still a brainless masher in its own right, but the effort to move away from DaS3 is clear.
>>724591053DS3 has the worst level design full stop. DS2 is worse, but there is a perverse charm in its enemy spam. DS3 has no redeeming qualities.
>>724601863>DS3 has no redeeming qualities.Except for the actual levels being designed better.
>>724600958retard really can't read, huh?you posted 4 cherry picked examples... my counter examples is every other level you left out of the cherry picking. all of them.if you still dont understand retard, try reading it all again from the beginning, very slowly. retard.
>>724601946No, the levels are far worse in DaS3. They commit the worst crime of being very bland, boring, and way too easy. They naturally encourage you to just run straight through them and ignore everything, with no thought.DaS1 and DaS2 levels are filled with moments that will punish you for not paying attention or not being careful. DaS3 is quite literally the exact opposite, the levels are like husks that take you from boss to boss, with the bosses being the actual content of the game that all the effort went into. DaS3 levels are truly the worst and it's not even close.
>>724587461smt 3
stupid console nigger, DaS will never be a thing no matter how hard you spam it, des is treated like a beta version of ds and is locked in a shitbox so it will always be irrelevant until it can be played normally, and still be des
>>724587764you were right.
Honestly, being an straight line would have been great to sell the idea of a journey...if they hadn't given you teleportation right from the start.DS1 really is the only one who nailed it. Teleportation destroys the atmosphere.
>>724592976>>724594998>>724595368>>724595609The map in DS2 is explicitly non-euclidean and this is established in the tutorial. You start out in a forest of giant trees and then go through the base of the trunk of one of said trees and when you come out the other side it's just a cave on the beach with no giant trees behind you. The earthen peak/iron peak transition is still bad, but only because the elevator should have gone down instead of up, as intuitively you would expect the windmill on top of a hill to be above a fortress which appears to be built into the caldera of an active volcano.
>>724586276how do i get this map on google imagesi get maps but not this exact one
>>724586276The official Souls ranking: ER>DS3>BB>DS1>DeS>DS2I talked to Miyazaki and he confirmed it. He also said to never bring up DeS because he has PTSD from its troubled dev cycle.
>>724602629Actually it's ER>BB>DS2>DS1>DS3>DeS
>>724602629t.
>>724602629Amazing, it's perfectly backwards
>>724587461Fallout 3 except half the tunnels are blocked.
>>724602467People forget that DS2 was a lot of scrambled assets and development was a bit of a mess, so they had to try to figure a way to put the puzzle pieces together, even if they had to cut the pieces into ways that don't fit their original shapes. There's a good reason a lot of the map doesn't feel planned out or coherent, because it's not.
>>724602629DS2>DS1>DeS>DS3>>>>>elden slopHavent played BB yet, waiting for the 60fps patch. If we're counting king's field they go in around the middle.
>>724602629It's actuallyDS1>BB>ER>Sekiro>DeS>DS3>DS2And yes, that does mean that most of the Dark Souls trilogy is weak, but even the weakest game out of the ranking still beats out several other franchises.
>>724587461Zelda 1 and Breath of the Wild
>>724592976obsessed + buck broken 3jeet
>>724601631Way too MMORPG-coded for my brain
>>724603142>slopzoomer tranny
>>724586276now add in BB
>>724587461Here's an actual answer
>>724592976wasn't it established by Solaire in Darksouls 1 that reality is breaking?
>>724603053Wrong. Almost all DS2 level transitions follow narrative logic, even if they lack the geometrically correct transitions seen in a lof of DS1 and DS3 (although less than people pretend they have). The only problem is two (2) places where the logical element fails: the transition between earthen peak and iron keep, and the shrine of winter being to bypass a pile of rubble, rather than being placed at the entrance of the cave that teleports you to the foot of dranleic castle
>>724602087ThisHalf the zones just up and surrender, and just have massive skips in them.I think you can seriously skip like 70% of Carthus. Not even the game is interested in fucking Carthus. If I had to name a best zone in DS3, it would probably be the Cathedral of the Deep, but even then, that's more because of the outside area and the external area + rafters offering a rare opportunity to interact with the architecture in a sorta interesting way. It's just shitty DS1 Anor Londo, but that's better than anything else in DS3 I think.Crucifixion Woods makes a good first impression, but doesn't hold up to scrutiny.
>>724591672>>724591672This but unironically.
>>724592976still better than ds3 though
>>724602087>DaS1 and DaS2 levels are filled with moments that will punish you for not paying attention or not being careful.None of the field enemies in DS1 are as dangerous as the elite enemies in DS3. There is one moment that the mobs in DS1 are actually truly threatening. When you walk into that small room under the drake bridge and encounter those rats. Chances are you will not have the health to survive their poison, so you have to be extremely careful. Blighttown almost does it, but the enemies are individually weaker, comparatively.DS3 has multiple enemy types that fight like the player, but better. The Outrider Knights alone are better than any random enemy in DS1.
>>724603848It's pretty easy to see the pieces are smashed together and this isn't even up for debate. This isn't up for debate, this is said in interviews.>Firstly, I’d like to ask director Tanimura to give an overview of the Dark Souls 2 design process. This was your first role as director and you had some difficult shoes to fill in those of Mr Miyazaki, who was really the cornerstone of both the previous entry Dark Souls and its spiritual prequel Demon’s Souls. On top of that, it was the first direct sequel in the series. Was it as difficult as it sounds?>Tanimura: Yes, this game actually went through quite a troubled development process. Due to a number of factors we were actually forced to re-think the entire game midway into development. We really had to go back to the drawing board and think once more about what a Dark Souls game should be. It was at that point that I took on my current role, overseeing the entirety of the game including the art direction. To ensure we created the game both we and the fans wanted it was completely necessary, but it did, of course, create a problem. We had to decide what to do with the designs and maps that had been created up to that point. Ideally we’d start again from scratch but of course we were under time constraints so instead, we had to figure out how to repurpose the designs in our newly reimagined game. This meant everything from deciding new roles for characters to finding ways to slot locations into the world map. This unusual development cycle faced us with an entirely different set of problems and looking back on the project as a whole it was at times, arduous. Although I’m confident that none of this will be felt by the players and I’m completely satisfied with the final product. So while I don’t think we need to dwell on it too much, in the interest of giving a full count of the development process it’s something we can’t avoid touching on.
>>724601974>my counter examples is every other leveThat's not an example, that's a blanket statement. You're an illiterate nigger.
>>724605365This says that they went through great efforts to make things make sense, so you're just wrong, faggot
>>724605365Stop quoting stuff that destroys your own narrative.
now post Sekiro/Elden Ring
>>724605517>>724605647It only adds to the truth. Oh wait, I forgot DS2nogs can't see the truth, that it's a thrown together mess.
>>724605461I know you are retarded, but try imagining a list of every level in the game copy pasted into where I said "every level"
>>724587461
>>724605145I'm sorry, but are you insinuating that Dark Souls 3 has better levels because the field enemies are more difficult?
>>724586276No. DS3 is actually a downward spiral for the first half, and an upward spiral after Carthus.
>>724587461open world metro game that takes place in/above the metro when
>>724601745>time and spacefuck that. thats the kind of bullshit that lets even ds2s interconnected levels get a pass. thats a BS copout and I cant stand faggots that use it to justify poor design ds2 has the same kinda of lore with how our character is losing our mind and doesn't "remember" the long ass trek we go on, so we just zip up an elevator and come to a volcano.
>>724606275What is the point of a level if the enemies in it aren't ever a challenge?
>>724606949
>>724606949Pulling levers and walking on a wooden beam?
>>724586276The only reason dark souls isn't linear is because you dont get a teleport until you have the lord vessel
>>724605145By that metric, DS2 is the best because its enemies are consistently the most dangerous. Iron Keep and the Alonne Knights mog anything in DS3, and that's middle of the pack for DS2. And the Frozen Outskirts is the best area in the entire franchise, something I don't even think die hard DS2 fans like.
>>724602629>taking japanese opinions on anythingIts ER>BB>DS3>DS2>DS1>DeS
>>724588664wasnt pontiff supposed to be the final boss or some shit?
>>724586276Valley of the Drakes does so much heavy lifting for DS1's interconnectivity.
>>724586276no, you can lay out dark souls 1 in the same way and it only has a single branch then, the placement of the vertices is very dishonest
>>724606949The level itself can be a challenge. Plenty of games make the environment the adversary. In Dark Souls 1, Blighttown’s poison swamp and narrow platforms, Valley of Drakes as a transitional area, and Firelink Shrine as a hub all serve different purposes beyond combat. By your logic, boss arenas would be peak level design since they contain the hardest enemies.>>724607417To further what you're saying, wouldn't all this fall apart when we admit that difficult ends up being personal experience? In DS2, I've died the most against The Rotten, never died once to Pontiff Sullyvhan in DS3.
>>724607417>Iron Keep and the Alonne Knights mog anything in DS3,Not true, DS3's lothric knights are the best enemies in the whole franchise. But most DS3 enemies are shit
>>724607417Yes, DS2 has some good levels and good enemy design for it. DS3 has better ones. But that doesn't change that DS2 usually has better mobs than DS1. It issues lie elsewhere, not in finally putting some non-bosses that are fun to fight in the game. >>724607532DS3 is the first Souls game to have good bosses.
>>724607450The enemy of Pontiff was supposed to be the final boss, Aldrich was originally the Pontiff Sullyvahn
>>724607692>first Souls game to have good bossesBy what metrics?
>>724606579Sekiro also has amnesia / fractured mind / broken memory thing. If DS has the time/space is convoluted, Sekiro has that memory is convoluted thing. Yet I don't see anyone complaining about it, why?Like both versions of Hirata memories are fucked, none of last boss fights were real. Sekiro only fought the Owl Father in the Pagoda. The Lady Butterfly fight was from another distant memory when he was training under her. The giant Buddha room in Hirata estate is sort of a space, in Sekiro's state of mind, where he confronts his own conviction or guilt, from betrayal. It's mixed with the real events, the night when Hirata was invaded, and you saving Kuro (or was it Kuro that actually saved you).Nevertheless the Hirata part of the game feels like a cop out of some sort, with the switcheroo memory/bosses. It's there to really dig it into the Player, really send it home, that Sekiro has severe mind fracture from the fallen burning pillar hitting his head. It's an actual part of the lore, in the game.The Idols aren't some video game teleporters or simple checkpoints. It's just camping point for Sekiro to rest and meditate, delve deeper into his fractured mind, to mediate. Lore accurate Sekiro traversed each stage only once, disposing enemies, looting items, clearing each area in one fell swoop, before proceeding to rest on the next Idol.
>>724608130Think of all the million times we died as the players, you and I, everyone else. It's like, we're all the infinite iterations of fractured memories inside Sekiro's mind. This is why he meditate. In reality, he already collected the hidden tools, upgrades, etc. He just forgot where he stashed it somewhere. So when we the players used the Idol to "enter" the previous areas to find the tool/upgrade, it's more like Sekiro is just really sitting there meditating on the Idol, remembering things right. In reality, he already picked up the stuff somewhere, he just couldn't remember where it is cause of his amnesia.In other words, the Dragon fight never really happened. That fight took place in Sekiro's mind - body, and spirit in a spiritual realm. In reality he was meditating in that watery pool tomb / cave. The same thing happened with the Folding Screen monkeys. The Illusory Hall. So are these some bullshit, cop out areas/mechanics? Because they aren't physically real? Some mumbo jumbo spiritual shit? Psychotic illusions? Amnesiac episodes? No. It's part of the lore, that makes the game what it is.
>>724605365What was actually cut from DS2 in terms of levels were>Aqueduct that served as an alternate route into the Castle >Cut section of the gutter>The crossroads at the shaded woods was made to connect different previously unrelated zones together>The path from Heide's to the Warf was also a later rushjob>Multiple zones having an alternate version due to the the time travel plot being cut down to just the giants memories.
>>724608223Dude you should go back to 2010 with all the other "its all in your head" theories.Besides Kotaro proves you wrong with the monkeys.
>>724602087>They naturally encourage you to just run straight through them and ignore everything, with no thought.No they don't. Not in any way by any metric.
>>724607940They require more than circlestrafing ass pokes to beat and have movesets with more than 4 attacks.
>>724608223It's like every now and then you see people complaining about that one little trivial part in Bloodborne, like the door guy, asking for a password for passage. Once you actually got it and pass through the door you find behind the door is nothing but a long dead skeleton, how is that realistically possible? Well, you complete the game learning that Yharnam itself is a false memory, an instance of a dream, part of a nightmare, a mere simulacrum of the real thing. So the voice is a lingering glitch in the Matrix.In real life physics, we now know that the 4th Dimension exists, the 4th dimension is spacetime. Three dimensions are spatial, and the fourth dimension is temporal. You could envision the 4th dimension as infinite 3rd dimension stacked over each other on all directions. This is actual science. But this also explains the metaphysics, occult/esoteric thinking. Like black magic, chaos magic, intentions, coincidences, and even psychoanalytic theory like Jungian's Synchronicity. Deja Vu. Quantum mechanics, observer effect, cat in the box experiment - Schrödinger's cat, quantum superposition.There are infinite memories, universe, dimensions stacked over each other. So imagine the universe getting stagnant and these barriers between dimensions get weaker, that's how people are able to cross dimensions in DS universe. This is the time is convoluted thing. Summons, or seeing other players' phantom in their own mirrored worlds. Sekiro seeing his own fractured Remnants, like shadows of himself in the world. Even seeing Kuro's past phantom memories, because remember, Kuro did give his blood to Sekiro. It's part of the lore.
>>724586276ds2 is so fucking ludo
>>724608639What is the name of the tool and its description again?>Divine Abduction>spirited awayIt's a spiritual realm. Not physical.
>>724609591Yeah spirits are real but Wolf is not a braindamaged sctizo
>>724609703Oh so time travel and teleportation is real then? Sekiro used the Idol million times to teleport back into past for trial/error shit until he did things right? Time travel and teleportation is real?
>>724587461Underail
>>724609930Immortality from the dragon revives sekiro and all the enemies that respawn are just new fodder that fill into the zone.I will give you the explicit memories as actual memories but the fact that those are addresses explicitly as memories sets them apart from the rest of the game.Any other issues can be set aside as gameplay abstractions.
>>724610334BWAHHAHAHAAHDragon immortality doesn't reset spacetime retard. It doesn't turn back time, it doesn't stop time neither. Neither it respawns the enemies like some videogamey world. The mainline story, from when you start controlling Sekiro until the end of it happened within a day.Explain how Sekiro went into the past to fight the Owl, and get the sakura bloom tree twig thingy, and then brings it back to the present. Time travel and teleportation?Then explain killing the Owl in the past, yet you're still fighting him in the Pagoda. Do it.
>>724609463Time is a human construct, it is not a dimension or some natural phenomenon.it is something we created to have a concept of how things change.
>>724608964yeah but then they also started to suffer from rollslop standardization, which was already there in DS2, but people didn't really start calling it out until Elden Ring. hardly any of these "good bosses" are memorable at all.
>>724610781Unironically Spirits AKA Magic, same as the dude in Bloodborne being Eldritch Bullshit AKA Magic, same way that Dark Souls functions off of Time being linked to Light, AKA Magic and the same way that Demons Souls has The Old One oozing soul power AKA Magic.Except that in all From's games Magic is physical and tangible and affects the world.So Wolf isn't sctizoing out via meditation, he is pluming the spirit realm via his memory for the items in a tangible way, same as defeating the Giant King in retail DS2.
>>724587764Ds2 fags are mentally ill
>>724592976>it's okay when bloodborne does it
>>724611078Just level Endurance and use a shield if you don't want to roll. If you don't have fun timing dodges, then the exchange is you put some stat points into defense instead.
>>724611374well, you see, anonTime and Space is all convoluted in the Hunters Dream.
>>724601784>while memoryholing the linear button mashing gameplay from 3.*tripling down onElden Ring is the worst of the bunch in this regard
>>724607458It's a circle, you can say this about any segment of the line. Valley of the Drake connects to three other areas. Undead Parish connects to four other areas, therefore Undead Parish does even more heavy lifting. And hey wait, Firelink itself connects to 6 other areas, without Firelink Shrine the game is practically a straight line!Kill yourself.
>>724611258>??????Yes he is pluming the spirit realm via his memory THROUGH MEDITATION.It's metaphysical, not physical.It's not that a physical fucking portal opens up and he physically entered it. In Bloodborne intro it literally shows you signing up and become subject to blood transfusions, and going to sleep on that operating table. When you wake up, it's no longer reality. Your consciousness wake up in a dream state. That's how you become a Hunter, genetically engineered, now waking up in the dream world. So you go to sleep to enter the dream, which is actually a nightmare of some other entity.You meditate to enter a spiritual realm, those of higher plane and dimensions where spirit and gods lived, one that is a simulacrum of reality mixed with one that is extremely botched due to your fractured mind, the shattered memories, hence the Lady Butterfly / Father Owl mix up. Sekiro never fought Owl in Hirata.
>>724601745>people actually believe this bullshitno, nigger, they just didn't give a fuck. they just slapped together some levels and served you the slop. lmao you people would rationalize someone shitting down your throat as "reality breaking apart".>they could've made it granderthey why the fuck didn't they? because it would have taken actual effort. DS1 is miles above the sequels, it's not even a fair comparison. The sequels are just shitty imitations that fail to capture what made the original special (geography being one of the main things). I guess they are cool for hack'n'slash retards, I, for one, never really gave a fuck about the combat.
>>724587461Haven't read the sequels yet but the first Metro book had some genuinely scary parts>The part after he encountered the two old men smoking a hookah surrounded by piles of garbage where he was wandering through the tunnels with no light source, no weapons, and no clothes except the robes the weird christ cucks gave him spooked me hard
>>724601745>but they chose the layout of DS3 because it made more sense as the ending for the sagaThat's bullshit and you know it. They went with the linear design because it was easy. That's all there is to it. This is why I hate faggots like you. You basically enable developers half assing their games by defending lazy design decisions that fuck up the game by making up the most retarded justifications imaginable. People like you are the real cancer of the game industry.
>another thread where DS2fags and DS3fags flame each otherDS1fags remain the only peaceful fans
>>724595073>muh second halfRetarded meme, only Lost Izalith is badAlso LMAO at saying ''0/10 second half'' while defending DaS2, when 90% of levels in that game are Izalith tier: ugly as fuck, no shortcuts, shitty bonfire placements, etc.
>>724611374>>724611475Fucking retard, not only does the DLC take place within the Nightmare, but they still put effort into the worldbuilding. When you're going through the first part of the level you'll see one of the snail women from the Hamlet drop from the sky, hinting that the area is always there, just not visible to usAnd then when you actually get to the Fishing Hamlet at the start you can actually look over the edge and you'll see Yharnam properly modelled, submerged under the water So even in a dream dimension where things are purposefully distorted, the world of Bloodborne makes more sense than in Dark Souls 2 lol
>>724615224>only Lost Izalith is badDark Souls 1 fans are getting almost as delusional as 2 fans.
>>724615869>backdrops>in a DLCok buddy
>>724603284Dog Shit 2 is literally jeet-tier slop tho
>>724615874New Londo, Duke's Archives and Tomb of the Giants are all high quality areas with good level design, fun enemies to fight, and fantastic atmosphere. They all have interesting new challanges, the pitch black darkness of TotG, the curse item needed in New Londo, the rotating staircases and teleporting mages of the Archives. And then there's of course the DLC which has some of the best bosses in the gameMuh ''second half'' is a retarded fucking meme parroted by drones
I agree with Joseph Hamsterson, all 3 games have something outstanding:DS1 - best peaksDS3 - most consistent high quality overallDS2 - best contrarian magnet
>>724605517Yes, they tried their best, and it still ended up not making any fucking sense>>724605647>>724608295>take 5 flights of stairs and multiple elevators down from Heide's Tower which is at sea level>end up in a pirate cove that is at sea level>NOOOOO THIS WAS TOTALLY INTENDED IT REPRESENTS UHHH THE HOLLOWING EXPERIENCE OR SOMETHINGlol
>>724613968Metro 2034 is dogshit and doesn't even count into the story. Feel free to skip it. Metro 2035 is good. Not as good as 2033, but it has its moments.
>>724616427New Londo is a slog of repetitive enemies and ganks. If you think DS2 has ganks, then what the fuck are all those ghosts in New Londo Ruins? And it leads to a boring DPS check. Duke's Archives may be nice with rotating staircases, which isn't even that interesting when you consider they only lead to a single chest and the only other way to go. But you're conveniently leaving out Crystal Cove. TotG is boring the darkness removes any chance for visuals and the atmosphere is completely lacking. The enemies are just big skeletons anyway, some of the more bland enemy designs in the series.
>>724590657>>724599597The story was hardly changed from the beta despite the larp post claiming all that shit.They just changed OG Ocieros from punished king to dragon fanatic and made Lothric and Sulyvahn two separate characters.The Eclipse was retooled into the age of hollows ending, which is ultimately similar to what Sulyvahn was trying to achieve through Aldrich in his own way separate from the Londor plot.
>>724589898it's basically the perfect example to prove the concept "fast travel ruins video games". DS1 was designed with the expectation that you'd have to explore and backtrack, DS3 is the epitome of the devs being lazy and basically going "eh we have warps who cares how it connects".
>>724613101>>724614173The games earliest concept art depicts a massive impossible heap of building piled on top of each other, shit shifting into the heaps is what the game was designed around.The entire map of the game is built around Lothric rising on a high wall while everything converges.>N'no they just wanted to be le cheapOG Lordran would not have been so interconnected if they didn't force blight town into existence by spamming the same platform assets over the moat to create a path down to the swamp which is why it runs like ass.They were never the ultimate masters of level design with extreme foresight.
>>724590657I really wish we got the dreg heap from the leaked screenshots. That bleeding eclipse looked incredible.
>>724587461vgh, wypipo could neva...
>>724592976surreal kino, 3babs could never
>>724617982Was too complete, fromsofts could never
>>724617007>If you think DS2 has ganksI never complained about ganks, DaS2 levels are dogshit for different reasons>then what the fuck are all those ghosts in New Londo RuinsThe ghosts have no poise and move very slowly, so even if you get overwhelmed it's very easy to run away and reposition, and the Darkwraiths are a fun knight type enemyFour Kings are great, their menacing design, the unique arena that makes judging distances difficult, the intense music perfectly complimenting a race against time. You wanna get close to them but you still gotta pay attention cause they force you to move with attacks like the grab or the massive AOE. It's one of those bosses that still gets the heart racing even when replaying the game>But you're conveniently leaving out Crystal CoveThat's not a full level. And it's a great visual setpiece that's fun to traverse the first time and a non-issue on replays, especially since Seathe is one of the easiest bosses by far>TotG is boring the darkness removes any chance for visuals and the atmosphere is completely lackingThe complete darkness bar for the few shining items and the glowing eyes of skeletons when you get close is precisely what makes the atmosphere so good and unique. Especially later on when you can peer into the Demon Ruins, and then again when you get a glimpse at the ceiling of Archtrees that hold up the world
>>724592976people need to make one with the detour thats 50% of the game because you can jump the rubble
>>724586276Least replayable Dark Souls
>>724620580
>>724592976>smart people knows how to poke holes at DS2's flawed level designI literally haven't seen a single arugment against DS2 level design that isn't some shitty joke a streammer made up.
>>724587764Defending DS 2 is peak reddit behavior. It's basically "all my reddit friends had FUN with the game" tier of reddit behavior.
When DS2 fans say a level is good they mean that the level has plenty of things going on about it, from enemy placements to individual map gimmicks.When DS3 secondaries say that a level is good they just means it looks nice.The reason why DS3 secondaries can't appreciate the maps in DS2 is that they are used to the bland glorified hallway levels of DS3, they can't comprehend that the level itself can pose a challenge, and immediately equate said challenge as bad level design.DS2 fans praise the intricacies of no man's wharf while DS3 secondaries only see a hellish runback.
>>724621571/thread
Bruh this Halloween theme looks so ugly.
>>724620665How about this? >>724615224
>>724588664>>724590657Gundyr does look like a remake of Old King Doran.
>>724607532>In DS2, I've died the most against The RottenPress X to doubt. The Rotten is one of the easiest bosses in the game.
>>724586276how did they design DS1's world, and sense of fear (before you can warp bonfires), and completely miss the mark on most other titles except maybe bloodborne?
>>724621571>DS2>enemy placement>goodwhat the fuck are you smoking
>>724587461Cosmic Smash
>>724592976D2 is objectively the best souls game.ER > BB > D2 >>>> everything else
>>724591672Yes.
