Lace is so silly lol a child has no business wielding hips like that
>>724623069made for kissing masculine male beetles
It's not even a real insect within this fictional universe anon
>>724623069>tumblrcore character
I haven't finished Hollow Knight (even the easiest ending)So i didn't understand what was happening at the true ending of Silksong when hornet while escaping the void looks at the previous game's protagonist
>>724623352A brother's love for his sister.
>>724623146Anon, barely anything in this series looks like a real insect
>>724623352In the first game's true ending the protagonist goes back to the void and essentially becomes able to control it. In the Silksong ending he shows up to save Hornet
>>724623476oh okay, makes sense
She singlehandedly moves the entire game down a peg. Between her cliche, soulless giggles and the fetchquests Silksong goes from 10/10 to 8/10. So easily avoided. I blame the one who doesn't make art or music. He is the weak link.
>>724623069Can Lace be considered a kyojiri
>>724623069Made for facesitting sessions with me
>>724623430I fucking LOVE the craws. I hated them at first but Crawfather is too kino.
>>724623918Filtered by the second boss
>>724623069I hate her design, feels like Stephen Universe tierKarmelita is modern pokemon tierWasn't a huge fan of Grand Mother Silk eitherShakra is great though
>>724623069Why does Hornet have a single hurt sound that's way cuter than the rest?
anyone have the chinese H game review of skong?
>>724623069>hips like that
>>724623069just did this.Now what
>>724625707ZAMN
>>724623069reminder>hornet loves "huge and soft" things>silk is soft>by extension lace is the softest possible being since she's made of silk>also being made of silk, hornet can make her bigger by simply giving her more silksoon enough her hips wont be her only huge feature.
>>724624143>Barely cover the tip of your noseHey, at least she tried
>>724625759100% in this game doesn't mean you've fought every secret boss.
>>724626087Did you get this from tumblr?
>>724626212i dont use tumblr. i just like fat women.
>>724626279bigger than is possible in real life, unfortunately.
>>724626885Kino ACKfly
>>724626885I'm supposed to kill those things right?
Yesterday I started steel soul grind>First attempt I did Bell Beast and the ant guard, just to die to Lace 1 (first time ever) because I'm a retard who forgot about the lava>Second attempt I died to the ant guard>Third attempt I died to the ant guard>Fourth attempt I died to the ant guardLast night I did Bell Beast, decided to sleep before doing the ant, but I'm still doing the Hunter march route, I won't lose to some ants
>>724625406Which one?
>>724626885Lmao I'm going to install this shit (alongside other visual mods) when someone actually makes a good randomizer
>>724626885Powerful & Valid
>>724626885LOL
>>724627735why the fuck would you do hunters march before dash??? is steel soul, try to play safe
>>724626885It kills itself mid fight?
>>724627735Getting Dash basically sends you back to the entrance of the Deep Docks you dummy, do the ants then.In other news after like 20 attempts to beat Steel Soul 100% in Silksong I went back to Hollow Knight where I never did that and did it on my first try, it's like the bosses and enemies are all in slow motion.
>>724623069>Here's your rival character bro!>Bratty lolibaba mesugaki with massive hips and assWhat did Team Cherry mean by this?
>>724627735I thought I was gonna rush ant for fractured mask, but then I couldn't jump over the gap without sprinting. At least I was rich, I guess
>>724623069Reminder to ignore and report all off topic trans spam, its a bot.
>>724630428We should encourage more tranny spam in silksong threads.
>>724630297You still need drifter cloak for the mask too?
>>724630692I think so IIRC. No point in doing it before Far Fields
>>724630692pretty sure drifter cloak isn't needed. just pogo
>>724628553Ok, that makes sense...It also means that the ants won :(
>Red Maiden, I found these lovely robes.>Now we'll match!>I also happened upon this curious lantern.>Would you care to share its warmth?
>>724629134>You like that game? Guess what, some random tranny also likes that game!>I bet you feel silly now!Anon, I don't want to alarm you but troons typically also drink water, breathe and sleep. You would never do any of those like some tranny, right?
>>724623918My thoughts as well, Lace either should have had way more screentime or been reworked into a different character, maybe even have her sister take her place.
>>724626885based self-hating trannies associating themselves with the most wretched and despised creatures in pharloom
>>724627735I died once on bell beast and then once to a FUCKING two damage mouse bug beneath Greymoor's travel station
>>724628553>it's like the bosses and enemies are all in slow motionSo are you though
>>724623918Her giggles are the best part about her.
>>724625480I finally remembered to save it for once. He's right you know
>>724623918I agreeShe doesn't really have any redeeming qualities for me, she feels like a blatant "we really need an antagonist/rival" character
I ended up dropping the game in act 3 because I got annoyed by the lengthy dream entering cutscene that takes control from you for 30 seconds.How have developers still not figured out that shit needs to be snappy if they expect you to repeat it many times?
>>724633469to filtered (you) unironically. dead is punishing and a failure. deal with it
>>724633469The only memory sequence in which is acceptable to die more than 10 times is karmelita, everything else is being retarded
>>724623069Is she more promiscuous than Whorenet?
>>724634049>>724634089npc responses
>>724634334>UUAAA UAAA I CAN'T HANDLE THE SLIGHTEST PUNISHMENT FOR DYING UAAA UAAAwhy are you so retarded?
>>724634334beep boop this anon is correct the video entertainment is not entertaining me if i feel incentivised to do better and anyone saying otherwise is an NPCend of line
>>724630692Need cloak for beastfly, but not for the mask/boomerang vendor. There are pogo plants for him in addition to the updraft.
>>724625759Beat the game with beast crest, use a save file to have the shit from the start
>>724634334Actually, it is YOU who is the NPC.How about that, anon? Bet you didn't expect that one, did ya!
>>724626885This will make killing it even more enjoyable.
I finally finished this at well over 100 hours. Holy shit am I bad at video games. Doesn't help that I played most of it drunk, though.
>>724633145based
>>724635278Drunken Fist Crest sounds fun
I didn't like that she was the final boss desu. In Hollow Knight the Radiance fight was cool because the fight itself was unique, there is no boss similar to the Radiance.In Silksong it's just a faster version of the Lace you already fought with Void attacks you've mostly already seen before.
>>724635278Based Anon showing the filtered shitters that a drunken monkey can bash his head through a wall eventually
>>724631840Hornet totally smashed this.
>>724635421I like the fight itself but I would have preferred some Abyss super god to match Radiance. Silk was really cool, but she's too easy.
>>724635471Hell yeah, brother! Wanderer spam got me through a lot of the game. I had to cheese the final boss, though. I just couldn't deal with all the shit going on in the third phase. All the projectile spam and input reading is too much to process. That fight seems like it's more luck than skill.
>>724633145>tool for the FemMCs defeat (rape)
ANNOUNCE THE DLC ALREADY
>>724635652The game hasn't even been out two months yet. Calm down.
>>724635652Pls don't, I don't want another 7 years of silence followed by the fan base becoming really annoying (me included)
>>724635545Yeah the fight is cool, I was just expecting something different. I guess the DLC final boss might be more interesting
Why is he so based?
>>724635652They've already said they're working on it.
>>724623918Yeah, I fucking hate her dumbass giggle sound effect, it's like they do some cringy tiktok anime parody, it sounds so out of place. Lace feels like poorly made fanfiction self insert written by a 14 year old.
>>724635545Clearly they're gearing up for a Lord of Shades final final boss
Which Godhome boss are you looking forward to the most. For me, it's the 5-phase Cogwork/Clover combined fight.
>>724637683huh? why does silksong get to be in the tendie cope image?
>>724637558First Sinner and Fourth Chorus 100%Last Judge too even
>>724637558Phantom, it was too slow even for the first game's standards, literally Hornet 1 tier slow
>>724623069
>>724627735M8 if you're dying to the early parts and fucking Lace 1 (a boss so easy you should be doing it no damage), then you're going to get destroyed later on. My first steel soul death while trying to get the achievement + speedrunner was in shellwood to some retarded mistake, then the mist to the ghosts, then trobbio, and trobbio again, and that's it. Doing trobbio with minimal upgrades was tough. Also just lure the ant guard to the tunnel entrance, he can't jump there. It's that easy. And in the arena fight that follows just let shakra do most of the work while dodging the ants, that fight is a visual mess and almost got me killed. If you're doing hunter's march be sure to at least buy the mask tool, its really useful in steel soul. Otherwise you might as well do the easier path through the docks to get to the dash.
>>724636308I agree. Lace feels like a Jonkler Enoshima in the middle of an otherwise sincere fantasy game.
I'm bashing my head against Groal and man does it feel miserable. Trying to fight him in melee feels like he can just decide to fuck your face at any given moment and there's nothing you can do about it. Are you supposed to spam him to death with tools or something?
>>724626885Reminds me of the second one you fight in the fourth corus arena.Retard would dive into the lava and never come back KEK!
>>724640565Just sit in the shit water and cheese him.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YeHNG1QwBo
>>724631574Aslong Shakra shows up for the gauntlet you are still ahead of the curve when to conquer that place, if you go there with the cloak and later the ants won.
>>724623918Yes, thank you. I don't think she's the only thing that brings the game down but she's a big part of it and she sucks. The game tries to be too many different things and for some reason one of them is like gay magical girl bug yuri.
>>724640565I recommend the lightning tool. It activates immediately when it comes into contact with water so you can do massive damage to him
>>724640565>Are you supposed to spam him to death with tools or something?Mostly yes. Spam a tool and skill of your choosing (no ground-based tools or cross stitch) and if you need silk try to pogo him a couple of times. Don't linger with the pogos because he will move up or go for a swim and fuck you over with contact damage. Diagonal pogos are awkward because he's too big and the arena is kinda tiny, so normal pogos are better. I recommend reaper unironically, speed doesn't matter that much in this fight and you need 2 red tools to spam him with, so it can't be wanderer even though it would work too. Beast's weird pogo works very well too if you know how to use it. Also you can take architect to trivialize this fight. Instead of pogo'ing you can just use the charge attack from a safe distance while spamming tools.
>>724640565Give up and come back later, the reward for winning is extremely pointless
>>724623918She's this game's Hornet. I don't see the problem. Hornet imposed herself onto the last boss fight too. Lace is based fuck you all.
>>724625759Get all the mementos, lockets, and relics on this save too and then get the speedrun achievements and wait until they release the boss rush DLC.
>>724641395I gave up at the seth memento. I wasn't having fun with flea dodge.
>>724640565I'm going to effortpost here>use ReaperI find this helps a lot even before you get to Groal because the bind effect helps you recover silk more and increases your ability to sustain yourself during the gauntlet. The range is also very nice because you can use it to safely hit the vietcong bugs once as they are jumping out of the water, once or twice while they are out, and once as they are going back down into the water. This is in addition to the three fat mosquitos in one of the waves for more silk to heal with.>use Sting Shard>use Curveclaw>use PimpilloThese all exploit Groal's big midair hitbox to shred his HP, and especially with how you can feed him a Pimpillo while he's sucking for more damage from within>stay to the center platform in the gauntletThis helps you dodge under the floating stake guys before they can fall on you, and helps you have more space to dodge the exploding dart throwers and their erratic leaps. But in-between when the spikeballs swing by, you need to hug the left or right door corners. And of course during the 3 fat mosquito wave you will need to move around the place to keep kiting them>stay to the left or right edge during GroalGroal's spit move always launches 2 big ball projectiles in an arc, this is piss easy to avoid and punish. Back away from his sucking move until you can tell when it's about to end, then start moving in towards him to hit him a few times while he's in-between attacks. Being pulled in by the end of his suction move also helps you maneuver on top of him to reaper pogo him a couple times. NEVER be under him or he could fall on top of you when he's diving or he's staggered. You can freely hit Groal while he's diving in or jumping out. In phase 2 he can do his Vengeful Spirit projectile spam; do NOT attack him during this as his projectiles are really wide and he fires them rather quickly, so you should focus on dodging vertically until his attack stops.
>>724623918
>>724623918Lace is just not very interesting or exciting. The whole GMS thing in general is given so little life. So little pathos. She's just this broken egomaniac at the top, zero character or interesting characteristics. "I just want to dominate everything with my threads". Okay? Their little family issue is dramatically inert as well. GMS could've at least been cooler or more challenging in a fight, but she's really not that, either. Has no face, not imposing or cool. Sad ending this way, after a fairly decent buildup.
>>724640565Why does no retard on this board ever use the claw line? Also if you want to be really save without jumping into the shit water, just dodge till he does the beeg succ and wack him from the bottom
>>724641994And as this guy >>724641259 said, do NOT use Cross-Stitch. You're better off using Silk Spear to easily hit him from the wall platform you're camping, or when he's staggered you Threadstorm or bind to heal and spam hit him for the silk orbs. Silk Spear is also very nice to help you kill the gauntlet stiltkin dart faggots faster and from a safer distance.Speaking of the gauntlet, on your way there from the bench, it is best to take the upper path to hit the grounded fat bug 3 times for silk and then across the gap to the silk clusters to help have silk going into the gauntlet or to help you dispel the maggots if you got maggot'd on the way from the bench. Once you have the runback route and pattern down, you should generally get to the gauntlet with full HP and some silk in hand
>>724642302I use the Clawline plenty myself, but I decided to not use it against Groal back when I fought him because of his big round hitbox and I was afraid it'd fuck me over by accident
>>724641323Hornet has family connection to our main character and is basically an ally throughout. She's a key to learning how it all went down and so on. Lace is just a minion. She's not even a true obstacle or ideologically important to even pay attention to. She doesn't matter in the slightest, because she has no real history to the citadel. Its not like Hornet, where you have several npcs that knew her and had connections with her, had several moments to talk to her including several fights. She had charisma. Lace talks a lot, but says very little and has zero connection to the world she inhabits. No culture, nothing interesting. She's also a carbon copy of Hornet's moveset. Ooh the diagonal pogo. Oooh the parry. Oooh the thread storm. Utterly inert.
>>724642156This anon is correct, compare black lace with the radiance, such a let down holy moly
>>724642302I forgot about it most of the time. I did finally get in the habit of using it after the ascent to the Nameless Town.
>Groal Just empty boomerang and whatever other gun type tool you have into him at the start Then take pot shots at him. Let him inhale you and hit him from within If that doesn't kill him you can go into the water and hit him from below He's not tough at all.
>>724641120That's just tumblrtranny headcanon that has no basis in the reality.
>>724642037>le tumblr face
>>724641323Hornet is just a standard-issue rival character. Lace is a "sexy rival" character, and it's weird because there's nothing sexy about it and it's not a joke either.
>>724642502TC dropped the ball in several ways. Mostly due to the narrative structure of the game being wrong from the start, we never really get the necessary buildup, and it's needlessly complicated by a stupid lore with the citadel and what it stands for having gone through several different iterations, instead of one person/ideology being responsible for what we see. End result is that there's no real catharsis at the end. GMS is just a psycho bitch. Notable for how petty and cruel she is, how utterly weak and pathetic her actual form is. There's not much of anything there. She's unironically better suited as a side boss to the grander game. Lace is barely a character and doesn't deserve the focus she gets. Again, dramatically inert. I have no reason to care about her idiotic thoughts at all.
>>724642714That says more about you than her design honestly.If anything she is the ojou-sama/posh rival character despite being not rich but then again she's made out of the most valuable resource in Pharloom.
>>724642507>High HallsHelps you gapclose to and KILL the bell throwers fasterHelps you gapclose to and KILL the flying sword knights fasterHelps you dodge horizontally faster to swap targets between the cogfly maestrosHelps you dodge horizontally faster to swap targets between the 2 big mace niggers>CrawfatherHelps you gapclose to and KILL the threefold pin fat birds faster>First SinnerHelps you thread the needle (LOL) between her 2 horizontal needles>GMSHelps you thread the needle (LMAO) between her 3 horizontal needles (her worst attack)>NylethHelps you get the fuck out of the explosion radius fasterHelps you reach the safe wall fasterHelps you gapclose to and KILL her faster>SethHelps you gapclose to where his diagonal shield bounce will spawn him at faster>KarmelitaHelps you gapclose to and KILL her faster
>>724642906Styling her mannerisms on the basis of anime was a massive mistake.
>>724642302>Why does no retard on this board ever use the claw line?Because he might decide to dive or spit or just slightly move forward and you catch a hit.
>>724637558Prime Garmond
>>724642906Bro, all it says is that I have two braincells to rub together. You fight Lace in a field of white flowers, then you dive down to the abyss to save her and the ending is her and hornet together. It's yuribait! That's the concept of Lace's character and there's basically nothing else to her.
>>724637558Give me Phantom and Lace dual bossfight
>>724623430birbobug is a cute design
>>724639697My first thought when watching that cutscene.
>>724643386>muh tumblr nonsenseThere's nothing there anon, stop believing in the lies of the mentally ill.
>>724642787GMS is a tragic villain and the relative ease with which you defeat her is a direct result of that. Her fight reflects that she's weakened from imprisonment and lashing out in rage. Her moveset further demonstrates continuity with Widow and First Sinner, both of which share similar attacks because of their shared lineage with GMS.I wouldn't have buried so much of her motivation in the background but it's not significantly harder to figure her out than it is the Radiance. That you didn't get it is a self-report, not an indictment of Team Cherry.
>>724639870Nigga I can do Lost Lace no hit, is just that I'm retarded and don't know how to beat bosses without sprinting Atleast now I can reach bell beast in less than 10 minutes, really good optimization lmao
>>724644651There's nothing tragic at all about GMS. End result is still an unsatisfying and boring fight/end to it all. She receives no characterization at all beyond a narcissistic urge to wipe out le weaver daughters that would rather run than fight her/bind her and so on. Its a pathetic, craven boss that doesn't really work.She's also not imprisoned at all. Where is her prison? Her minions can come and go as they please. She had both Widow and Lace up there and they venture out. She can exit her ball when challenged no problems. Its her own ball of silk. Her "sleep" is ill-explained in clear terms, the way it functions. There's no visual connection to her 'waking up" affecting the world the way Radiance imprints on the crossroads in the original game. My personal theory is that "sleep" is just ego satiation from endless supplies of pilgrims brought by the weavers "trap". As long as she had her fix, she remained "asleep". She still had agency enough back then (likely thousands of years ago) to spin several children, while "asleep". And when the conductor's rule faltered, she began making moves, because again, she was dissatisfied with the lack of devotion. There's no real tragedy here. She's simply an incomplete character that doesn't resolve the dramatic arc of Silksong.
How did anyone come to a conclusion of Hornet saved Lace because a quirky rival lesbain trope when It was GMS's wish™ to save her daughter? If anything Hornet fucking hated her
>>724646884Trannies did.
>>724646154That's an awful lot of text to say that you didn't engage with any of the worldbuilding, character dialogue, lore collectibles or visual narrative at all. And that's fine. You don't have to. Just don't be out here acting like you know something when your "personal theory" is directly contradicted by the text.
>>724645337>Nigga I can do Lost Lace no hitI call bullshit.
>>724646154You just described the Radiance who also had fuck all written about her besides the fact that she's mad.
>>724646154Good post.
>>724646884There's also yuribait with Shakra btw. The description for the bronze marker is like "I designed these based on my own shell, maybe you'll think of me when you use them". I'm truly sorry but it's all on purpose, the trannies aren't making it up.
Silksong is far better than HK in everything but the fucking story (not the lore), like, just compare Lace to The Hollow Knight, both are tragic characters but Lace feels flat and boring.
>>724648675>These I have fashioned from the husks of old bells. A hard task to make, so the cost reflects the extra effort.Lying tranny.
>>724648968wait let me check, one of them was like that
>>724648968>>724648981>>724649017>You can use these to mark places of importance or reminders on your map.>These markers I have modelled after the sheen of my own shell. Perhaps you will think of me when you use them. it's the shell marker, lol. Why make a big deal about it if I just got the color wrong
>>724648968You're right about the bronze markers. >>724648675 was mistaken but was talking about the shell markers.>These markers I have modelled after the sheen of my own shell. Perhaps you will think of me when you use them.
>>724648675>>724649126>>724649137>>724648968>>724649017Why immediately think of that statement as some sort of romantic confession?
>>724623918pathetic astroturfing with dumbass replies
>>724623146>>724623430Lace is clearly an orchard spider
>>724649216Don't bother engaging with yuritards, if they can't stick to their containment board then they deserve nothing.
>>724648675Sounds like some sort of tranny horseshit to me. You see things that aren't even there.
>>724649216Well that's the thing, I don't think it's even unambiguously implying that in-universe. I just think the devs did it on purpose, for people who want it to be true. And I think Lace's whole deal is the same kind of thing, but more obnoxious because it seems like it was the entire basis for character design. I'm not saying I think any of this was a good idea or improves the story or works in any way, I just don't think any of it was accidental. I think the devs thought they could pander to the tumblr audience while still being 100% "dark souls with bugs" to everyone else, and they were wrong. The game tries to be too many different things.
>>724624409
>>724648929A lot of it boils down to Lace being outright evil and narcissistic. It would be one thing if she were a protector of the kingdom who is being consumed by her feelings of antipathy towards her mother, but she straight up has not discernible redeeming qualities. Compare this to the Hollow Knight, who was an innocent child that accepted the sacrifice his fate meant YET loved his father still.
>>724650313Anon they've been doing this since Lace's reveal, it doesn't matter if their obsession is based on logic or not.
>>724640565i dont know i just equipped the rosary cannon and went full vietnam on those bileniggers
can you use the electric tool in the maggot area to kill maggots? I never used the tools that much. I had the same issue with hollow knight where I was never using spells either.
>>724651403You can to get the journal entry, but it doesn't actually kill them. Same with the Blasted Steps hazards.
>>724648553Radiance has environmental storytelling on her side. We also get to engage in the optional side quest of doing the moth quests, where we more closely understand the infection and her simple and compelling works. Radiance operates on horror logic. The entirety of Hallownest is built on "ancient native american burial ground" which makes people go mad. By the end, when you fight Vessel, you understand her and her motivations, such as they are- and they are reinforced by visuals. There's not a "haunting made manifest" type boss. There's no Vessel to build her up. You fight lace and then GMS is there. She's underwhelming. The design language is lacking. The actual story is lacking. The fetch quests (get the different parts of the song) are simply handed to you as part of the very infrastructure of the citadel. There's very little of the mystery of radiance, you slowly building up spiritual power to be able to reach her in HK1, by comparison. >>724647714Silksong talks too much. They had a talking mc, and so spent a lot of time having conversations, saying little with much. HK1 had to use visual storytelling more, and they knocked it out of the park. There's no sense, narratively speaking, to tie the current citadels status to three different groups, two of whom are dead and barely can speak or stand for what they've done. In HK there's two. Here is the world of Pale King, and here is the world of Radiance enacting revenge. We know where one ends and the other begins. With silksong, these clear connections are muddied. The one conductor who can speak is dying. He has literally nothing to say. You don't get a fight. You don't get answers as to why they ended up in this place (le "greed" is not an answer). Same with Weavers. They built a thing and then fucked off. Okay then. And the info we get is in any case vague and often times contradictory. Simply a poorly crafted story.
The deal with Lace is in the true endingIn HK during ''the dream no more ending'', Hornet wakes up, turns around and sees the dead vessel, the camera pans back to her and the game endsIn sister of the void, hornet wakes turns around and Lace is lying unconscious on the floor, theres a bit of a pause and she wakes up, its called ''sister of the void'' because its a reversal of the HK ending, she saved her ''sister'' this time
>>724651995This basically sums up Silksong's story in a nutshell. Everything is for the service of Hornet's character, whereas in HK the Knight didn't really have a character and was launching himself into an existing setting to solve its problems.It makes sense they would write it this way when they planned on it just being a HK DLC, but they absolutely should've rewritten everything about the main plot when they decided to make it a standalone game. I don't even mind the sidequests and wishes, but Lace and GMS are completely underbaked to the point where you almost forget they exist because there are numerous side characters with more presence than them.
Eh I liked Silksong's story and lore desu
>>724648929Completely different roles. The Hollow Knight is a martyr collapsing under the weight of his duty. Lace is just the latest in a series of experiments for GMS rather egotistical and self centered desire for a daughter. Lace has seen her predecessors and knows what’s her ultimate fate, hence her spiteful betrayal of her. It’s be one thing if Hornet saved her because she really cared about her but she made it clear she was doing it for Pharloom.
>>724652959Hornet moderately cares mostly because she's overlapping her siblings' (and some of her own) fate with Lace's own.
>>724653383They have very little overlap in real terms though. Hornet is the result of monarchical politicking (give me heir I will do x y z for you), vessels are created to save Hallownest from certain death. Lace is created because GMS essentially wants a pet chihuahua in her purse. An offspring that will remain an object and not do heinous crimes like "free for their lives away from you", or actually evolve and learn new things and make decisions. Lace is spawned from selfish desire and reflects that perfectly. There's genuinely nothing good about her. Her very blood is tainted in a way that Vessels and Hornet never could, because they were made in the interest of Love, good statesmanship and practicality for the betterment of the realm.
>>724653814what is this pale king propaganda? he had to make thousands of vessels and discard them because he caused the infection killing the hollownest
>>724654195He didn't cause it. It was an attack from a rival power. A truly strong weapon that was unleashed on his lands. He can be considered a good statesman because he wracked his brains trying to solve it, going so far as to sacrifice his own flesh and blood to find an answer. His treatment of the Vessel proves it was done out of love. He also simply couldn't let his lands be ravaged and all his people die without a gargantuan effort, which is what he did.
>>724653814It's less about the circumstances of their birth and more about the stasis wrought upon them by their lineage. Much like Lace was weaved to never grow shackled to the whims of Pharloom, Hornet was born to a Hallownest on the brink of stasis and spent an age acting as a lone sentinel to a long dead kingdom.Act 3 is just as much about saving Pharloom as it is Hornet's self-reflection coming to terms with her past in order to finally grow which is why Red Memory and the conversation with the White Lady was the massive inflection point to serve as the puniltimate setpiece like Birthright in HK.And I think, especially with how it mirrors Dream No More and the changed title screen, Hornet wants to extend that same opportunity to grow out of that stasis to Lace as well.
>>724654435>It was an attack from a rival power.That he caused by violating the NAP first.
all im saying is i like silksongs act 3 more than e33's desu
>>724646154>>724651831I'll keep you in mind when the "Prepare to Cry" lore videos start coming out for Silksong and all the "answers you don't get" turn out to be things you just missed.
>>724623069It's just pants.
>>724654732That was Hornet's choice. She wasn't charged with acting on the fringes of Hallownest. She saw it as her duty as a princess of Hallownest, and likely as a way to learn and understand of its fate.
>>724655597Just because an answer "is given" doesn't mean the story isn't badly plotted. Just a heads up. Feeding an ecosystem of worthless wiki-reading, reddit-perusing slags on youtube might be one "benefit" of writing an opaque, unsatisfying story, but your story will still get called out for what it is.
>>724654991Well yeah. with some people it's kill or be killed. The fact that there was bad blood and a serious grudge behind it is the "tragic" part of the thing. I'm not saying PK is wholly good, a paragon, or anything like that. But he was a good statesman and admirable in his position. Literally dying from grief having lost it all. Its noble and sad.
>>724656039>Literally dying from grief having lost it all.Nah, he just molted bodies again and fucked off.
>>724656259Slander.
What new higher being besides the city of steel master and MAYBE lifeblood will they introduce in the dlc
>>724655910>unsatisfying storyYou hung up too much on Lace. She's a brat, plain and simple, but the main plot is saving Pharloom, which you did at the end. Is that not enough?
>>724656725I like silksongBut compare that to how nicely interwoven the knight, the hollow knigjt, the pale king, the abyss, and hallownest are
BITCH YOU LOOK LIKE A MUSHROOM
>>724656675Grimm introduced the Nightmare Heart as a logical counterpart to the Dream World. The counterpart to the Dream World and Dreamnail in Silksong is probably the Elegy of the Deep, which sees what powerful entities were like in the past. So the logical extension would be a way to see what Pharloom will be in the future, and Hornet testing them to see if they're worthy to protect the land without her.Brace yourself for gigachad superboss adult Sherma.
>>724623146I want to turn Lace into a bloated used condom.
>>724626885>>724628021I'm starting to realize why I hate these fanbases so fucking much.
>>724651831>There's not a "haunting made manifest" type boss.You can just say, "I skipped Whiteward."
>>724651831>There's not a "haunting made manifest" type boss.What would be the "Infection made manifest" boss of HK, by your definition?
>>724656675I hope the Masters are not Higher Beings. Just regular, technologically advanced bugs who had enough about being thralls
>>724658280>whitewardThat's the problem though. This "haunting" thematic boss is tucked away, and not made central to the story the way Lost Kin and Vessel hammer down the themes of the story, what you the character is made to do, and how the infection works and how it all ends up going down (infected, bloated vessel, go *inside* the vessel to fight the true evil). Radiance's method, the themes regarding visuals, story etc is set up through consecutive uses of "orange goo living inside of thing" type enemies, in increasing difficulty. These enemies are also mirrors of you, the player. Contrast Silksong, where the "haunting" made manifest is a big cylinder that attacks you in a small room. What does that have to do with Hornet? What does a big cylinder have to do with the last boss? How is haunting appealing based on the image of it, fighting you? How does a big cylinder man evoke the effects of the haunting? Its just nonsense.
>>724656675>>724659397I think the Masters might be artificial creations descended from the ancient civilizationWhich is why they can control vood to an extent and potentially mog other higher beings
>>724658280Unironically this. I don't know how much more "haunting made manifest" you can get than the reanimated corpse of Conductor Mizello.
>>724659687The string shit is everywhereCitadel literally has moments where grandma silk sends out silk to wake up the dead bugs
>>724656725Hollow knight is "about" saving Hallownest. Its about exorcising or sealing ancient evil. This is from the word go. It opens up with that. Silksong opens up with a kidnapping and only later shifts to "save the kingdom from an evil tyrant" type story. With some splashes of "take revenge for your ancestors". But these things are all muddled and doesn't come across well in the finale.
>>724659775Again, how does that action and theme gel with the visuals of this goofy fuck >>724659769 being "the haunting made manifest". This is Silksong's problem. They don't have an image as strong as Lost Kin, Vessel, infested husks etc glowing with goop - which also ties directly into the Knights (your protagonist's) prime directive. Which is to join them and do their job better.Silksong doesn't have this. Hornet has nothing to do with the haunting, which is just the weapon of GMS. It stops when she's killed. Big whoop. You just go up the ladder and kill her. Silken threads were a bad idea from the start. The song part of the name Silksong is also a bad idea from the start. You can't visually make a striking "song" based game concept without stepping into the abstract, which TC did not want to do.
>>724659397>You mean higher beings? Those are, after all, regular citizens of Hallownest. If you meant Pale Beings, they probably avoid Pharloom since there's such psycho ruling it.
>>724660139you literally save a town full of bugs hanging from the silk and they describe the mind control they suffered after you save them
>>724623918>Anti Lace schizo immediately starts chimping out and samefaggingGo back to spamming cp, you brown pedophile.
>>724660575Let it go. He's arguing from a disingenuous premise and no amount of evidence to the contrary will move him off his point. You can point to Widow, the Unraveled, Shakra's dialogue, Forge Daughter's dialogue, Conductor Ballador's dialogue, Needolin dialogue, any of the flashbacks and the literal mindmeld you have with GMS when consuming the first silkheart; Silksong isn't Hollow Knight and is therefore inferior to Hollow Knight in this clown's mind because of some arbitrary definition of what constitutes "visually striking."
>>724660575Again, doesn't relate to the importance it plays to the story. Haunting is just "a thing that happens", while Radiance Infection is the entire fucking point of hollow knight. Its built into clear and striking visuals, and have bosses that display these effects, what it does all tied to your ultimate goal and fate as the player character: to be a vessel for it. Its extremely coherent and legible through multiple methods. Silksong is illegible by comparison.
>>724659840Your goal was to confront the antagonist behind her kidnapping, and your journey ended there. It only shifted after you've *fulfilled enough bugs' wishes (as a Wish Granter), and by the end, you have only the last wish to fulfill, The Mother's wish. A land of wishes and you're the wish granter. It's right in your face the whole time.>save the kingdom from an evil tyrant" type storyGMS is no tyranny. She was protecting lace from the void inside her cocoon. She was screaming for help for the whole Act 3
Where were you when you realized Sawtooth Circlet is the most fun tool in the game by a lot
>>724660895>read all this dialogue from all these random npcs it explains it all>look at these bosses using strings, haunting is totally treated similarly to the infection bro you gotta believe me Boils down to: it's less clear, you didn't work on the narrative structure of the game enough, and now you gotta do all this extra work to not even achieve parity. You haven't countered a single argument by posting this one Conductor, that somehow has the same thematic weight as Lost Kin or Vessel. Its you who should give up.
>>724658280nta but the causation is reversed. The silk experiments that led to the Unravelled, the mist Wraiths, etc. all unknowingly led to the Haunting, but weren't caused by it. Meanwhile the Infection is responsible for stuff like Broken Vessel, the possessed Hollow Knight, etc.
>>724661142There is nothing to counter.You already convinced yourself to seethe at the game.
Best part about Lace is she canonically has a big ass
Anyone else not give a shit about lore and just enjoys the gameplay?
>>724655704You're pants.
>>724623069Tumblr persona lol
>>724640565https://youtu.be/ZHMaOv5fCF0?t=37m54sLiteral females are one shotting Groal, there's no excuse for crying about him anymore.
>>724661957I'm not seething at the game. Your characterization is miles off. What this is, is a necessary critique regarding the narrative structure of silksong, and the failures that result from that. Arguing that GMS is a weak villain, and that the haunting is a poorly thought out concept is not a personal attack on anything. Its an observation that comes from actually engaging with the material.
>>724662564You mean first trying, not one-shotting, anon.
>still goingThis brown pedophile has to be the biggest lolcow in this site.
>>724662671Yeah, what you said.
for me its phantom
>>724623069Unironically removing her from the game wouldn't change much, she feels like a character that was added rather hastily, not much thought was put into her characterization and because of that she feels like a shitty plot device with next to no relevance in the game. I mean, she appears like what, 30 minutes, maybe even less, and that's even if you bother to 100% the game, which on average would take over 50 hours.
>>724662753You're mistaking me for someone else. Going by this thread, there's multiple people criticizing different parts of the game, for varying reasons. You decided you'd feel best about it if all those people were actually just one. Maybe a morbidly obese, truly disgusting evil other that wants to reduce your fun. That's not what this is, but keep believing fairy tales for all I care.
>>724662829Phantom MOGS her brat of a sister Lame and I can't wait to play Silksong as her.https://youtu.be/WooxgFEcXb4?si=fOTRJAxUHdwg-ZRb
>>724654991>people forget about you>someone builds a working thriving community where you used to exist>REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE>NAP violated in my mind>"well it was real to me!">kills morbillionsanon I don't think you thought this through or you missed a bunch of shit in the first game
>>724656039>I'm not saying PK is wholly good, a paragon, or anything like that.it's ok bro. I'll say that.
>>724663019She's a token daughter for GMS to care about, which kinda fitting cause that's literally her character. GMS wouldn't be throwing a fit if she was the only one falling into void.
>>724663349It was genuinely fair play from Radiance. >>724663435Lmao characterization deep like a puddle of piss
>still samefagging At this point there's no reason to pretend, everyone knows you.
>>724663349Higher beings are basically gods, moving into another's domain and influencing their followers is violating the NAP. If PK just did his own thing in his own kingdom then that would be one thing, but getting the moths to follow him and trying to destroy all records of Radiance was a bullshit move and Radiance was correct to retaliate.
>>724655910it sounds like you missed a lot of stuff in the game bro, sorry you don't have a full picture or shit memory. tourists come to pharloom all the time on a pilgrimage and most don't make it out alive :^)
>>724663435Yes, but it seems like TC wants us to care about her deeply and yet there's just, not much about her you can even mention.
>>724623069She's actually very slender she just has poofy renaissance pants
>>724655704it's literally all silk my guy. she's a living being made of silk. like they say this quite explicitly. i can't tell who is a tourist, who is retarded, and who didn't play the fucking game anymore. I literally just ran credits and got to act 3 and I understand more than a lot of the posts I'm seeing in these threads trying to avoid spoilers.
>>724640565https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9jqMn5XBQg
Will Hornet top or bottom?
>>724663639When did you have to care about her? you only saved her because GMS because wanted you to. It was her wish. Only retarded shippers care about her.>>724663507I didn't say her character was deep. she's just as bland and hollow knight
>>724663753I mean, she can be made of silk but still wears clothesWell, as First Sinner shows, you can also use silk to weave yourself some clothes so I guess it's a moot point
>>724663753It's 100% just clothes, anon. Beneath it she's all black like her mom and Phantom. Though I like to believe she has a doll body that houses all her silk inside of it.
>>724663951I saw a picture where Hornet is raping the second sentinel with her tentacles.
>>724663548Fantasizing about a conspiracy against you every time someone disagrees online is not healthy. You'll end up in a bad place like that.
>>724657115I think you missed a lot of stuff anon. I would say silksong had better in execution than hollow knight in terms of thematic connection to everything going on. I say this as someone without nostalgia goggles I beat hollow knight in september and just rolled credits less than an hour ago in silksong
>>724662671Unless you install the one-shot mod.
>>724664179Being a brown pedophile with no life, that spends his whole day, everyday spamming this site sounds way more unhealthy to me.
>>724623069Why does she feel like some cringy tranime self-insert?
>>724664556Probably because she is.
>>724659687>through consecutive uses of "orange goo living inside of thing" type enemies, in increasing difficulty.brudder did you not play the game?
>>724654195Apologize.
>>724665064Reminder Tumblr was actually seething at people making posts like these.
>>724664532You're way off. I bet you don't even do autistic comparisons of vernacular, or make files on posters. That would risk ruining the solace living in delusion gives you. >>724665000Expand on what you mean.
>>724660139holy shit finally going through this thread and you sound like an absolute tertiary retard. please play the fucking game>UHHH again I ask, HOW IS A LITERAL SPOOL OF SILK! THAT EXTENDED HIS LIFE FROM MAGIC SILK! A VISUAL REPRESENTATION OF GMS USING SILK TO POSESS PEOPLE OF THE HAUNTING! Silksong simply does not have the visual trigger I want despite describing lace in every single one of my postsholy shit>uhhhh silksong doesn't have song represented in it. no i didn't play the game, no i didn't find any of the lore in the game, no i didn't look at the environments depicting everything I'm complaining about. YES I AM A FAGGOT AND VALIDplease stop posting and go play the game you clearly missed all of the game. maybe team cherry and their australian abstraction was just beyond your comprehension
>"Lace is a bad character!"Hmm, I wonder what's beneath that mask?>seething at yurishipping and the Tumblr bogeymanLet's keep this on.
>>724660938The Haunting isn't a "thing that happens" it directly plays into the religious server theme of the game. As per Benjin and Crull, only the most devout and base animals are haunted. It is literally something you can opt out of. (Except for Widow, but that's an allegory for religious zealoutry) the Ants describe it as a song similar to Karmelitas. It's a Siren song , not just infection 2.0. It is related to Hornet in the way of her Pale Being nature.
>>724653814>Her very blood is tainted in a way that Vessels and Hornet never could,The vessels are avatars of combat and destruction, with their only saving grace being that most of them are useless jobbers and the strongest one of them likes hornet specifically
>>724665513Hypocrite as you are, for the yurishippers don't give a shit about Lace's actual character and all their shipping has been unchanged since long before the game released, untouched and unaltered by the events of the actual game.
>>724665924>Lace's actual characterBare bones , let's be honest
>>724641323>She's this game's HornetShe's nowhere as compelling as Hornet whatsoever.
>>724623069HIPSIMPREGNATE HIPSSEX WITH GIGGLING BUG
>>724641323>She's this game's Hornet. I don't see the problem.Every single one of Hornet's appearances coincided with a major revelation about the setting and/or plot that made it feel like the game was also pushing forward the entire way. Her attitude and own backstory also allowed her to serve as a stand-in for Hallownest itself. By comparison, Lace has literally nothing interesting until after you've already beaten her in the Cradle.
>>724623918You are incorrect. Lace is great.
>>724625707I want to impregnate this man!!!!!
>>724649260Is this how you cope?
>>724665819>the haunting is a song actually Weird we never see it in the game tho. Weird how none of this correlates to the GMS we see in the final fight She doesn't sing. She only draws lines on the screen to grab Hornet. Very cool. I'm guessing spears and claw attacks are also integral to the haunting at some level ?
>implying tumblrtrannies care about Lace's characterWhat a joke, we've seen what they've been doing since her first reveal in 2019.
>>724665819Widow isn't haunted, she's just a servant with a broken will.
>>724660938>doesn't relate to the importance it plays to the storyAnon, the Haunting and GMS are a complete inversion of Pale King and Radiance. The fact she only feels utter sorrow for every betrayal by the people whom she loved, is incapable of being completely overwhelming and all-controlling despite genuinely loving her daughters is the great tragedy of Silksong. Everything ties back to GMS (literally).
>>724666340What makes her great? (hard mode: no sex appeal)
>>724623146>>724649336She's likely a lace bug since they have the same color scheme and unlike crab spiders she can't change colors. Also this thing seems pretty fragile which would be fitting for her.
>>724635652sherma dlc or nothing
>>724665347A spool of silk is not visually appealing. And doesn't actually signify "haunting" someone. A living spool of silk (a cylinder with some clothes). Bewitched strands penetrating a bug and moving it like a puppet. These are two entirely different concepts. One does not flow from the other easily. This is why all you defenders need pages and pages of supporting material to point towards, because the base game and the visual language cannot do these arguments for you. Which is indicative of poor foundation. Regarding the Song part - it's that these things are separate from each other. Whatever connection exists between the silk and the song are flimsy and forced at best. That there's singing and some silk in your game does not make these two separate concepts thematically cohesive, and again, does not explain the connection of music to Grand Mother Silk. We are "simply told" she is sung to sleep We are "simply told" that music is the key to all this, and there's lots of music instruments and band artists around, so that must be true, right? Except we never see the actual effects of the song. None of these concepts are depicted, because visually depicting a lullaby (that we never hear), or sleep (that we never see) is hard. Silksong is a game that tells, not shows.
>>724667050>A spool of silk is not visually appealing.Orange piss blobs are not visually appealing.
>>724666768Your simplistic theory doesn't explain Phantom. It handwaves the fact that Weavers didn't try to usurp Silk, but rather ran away for a very long time, and were hunted down and exterminated for their "betrayal" when they were no threat, old, sick, demoralized, or infirm. And in any case, if everything ties back to GMS, why is she so devoid of character? If she is the cornerstone of the game, why is her characterization a few flashbacks (where the player doesn't know/isn't told she's speaking). Why doesn't she ever interact with Hornet? Why don't we see Lace and GMS interact beyond combat?
>>724666882>unlikable brat>no redeemable quality>compulsive>annoying>jealously>totally a bad bug person>mama still loves and will die in her place anywaysShe reminds me of my old self
>>724666570You see it described by the ants as such. It's arguable how much control GMS has over the haunting, nothing really changes after she's sent to the void. GMS herself isn't some prideful angry god. Her battle showcases her character , she's a sad lonely god abandoned by all her daughters she created , she's in a pitiful state , notice she's shaped like a teardrop and is always "shielding" herself. She's not a wrathful one not villain like the radiance, but moreso a complex "tragic/sympathetic" sorrowful one, she never showcases any hatred whatsoever, you should stop comparing her to the Radiance. They are different villain archetypes
>>724661957>>724667050>You haven't countered a single argument by posting this one Conductor, that somehow has the same thematic weight as Lost Kin or Vessel.>These are two entirely different concepts. One does not flow from the other easily.your opinions have a poor foundation in feces. Vishnu sucks. Lace is literally everything you're wanting and refusing to accept. Sorry you have shit taste and even worse comprehension. Maybe you should try playing silksong. If you like hollow knight you'd actually really enjoy silksong. I guess you never played hollow knigt or silksong based on some of your posts.>Whatever connection exists between the silk and the song are flimsy and forced at best. That there's singing and some silk in your game does not make these two separate concepts thematically cohesive, and again, does not explain the connection of music to Grand Mother Silk.ok that actually made me chuckle. i can tell you're trying your best to make the most disingenuous bait or are genuinely incapable of visualizing something in your mind. I'm "simply telling" you you need to play the game.
>>724627735Hey guys, the ant didn't kill me, now I'm in haunted bellhart!What route should I take? I already did craw arena and have the fire protection tool, and I don't have many issues with last judge, but phantom is still far easier, sadly, I suck when it comes to sinners road and the mist.
>>724667139They are, when they are contrasted with dark, blue tinted caverns and hard contrast bug bodies. The design language of HK1 was masterful in its simplicity. Contrast colors, hard and soft, living and dead, dark and light. That's a simple, and yet effective way to portray these two forces. Silk (and song) simply has nothing comparable. The haunting is a visually unappealing gimmick, where the apparent best effort is a giant sliding spool of silk hidden away in a corner of the map, instead of proudly shown front and center.
>>724667050Music in Silksong compels bugs in Pharloom to act according to another's will. You see this with the Needolin, in Bellhurst, with the dead pilgrims springing back to life, and in the Citadel when the legions of the Citadel are reanimated once more. There once was song in the Citadel of Song, but it is quiet and no more. It was once used to lull GMS to sleep, but she is now stirring and it'd be impossible for the ceaseless song to be played again. The Haunting is described as a ceaseless nightmare full of another greater being's feelings and memories. We use songs to conjure memories and feelings into tangible form in the shape of dreamscape battlefields which Hornet crystalizes into beating hearts. Music is used to inspire faith and determination as we see through Sherma. The clanging of bells hold a great amount of religious significance in Pharloom because bells are, ironically enough, used to rouse things from slumber. A bell is used to summon the fat fuck gourmand to the table. We ring bells to summon the Bell Beast and open the gate to the Citadel, we ring bells to ascend to Grandmother Silk. It's an ironic tool to reflect the hypocritical nature of Pharloom where the very tools they use, choirs and bells, which are both very, very loud, to lull a god to sleep.
>>724667574Did you sit at the bench in Haunted Bellhart and quit the game?
>>724661957shit not (You) but we all know who the samefag is
Where the FUCK is he?
>>724667765HK3
>>724667465All those cages with all those notes detailing the murder she caused her own children clearly states otherwise. She has full control of the citadel. She doesn't stop haunted pilgrims from murdering. She doesn't stop the workers form working themselves to death. She doesn't actually hinder the Citadel from exploiting in any way, shape or form. She's awake and conscious by game start. She was awake when she purposefully spun Phantom and Lace, hundreds or thousands of years ago, as a result of "betrayal". Where is her sorrow, so that I may see it? In what way was it depicted in game? All one can see is a spiteful and murderous entity that solely cares about herself (and Lace, who is simply a mini-GMS, a clear narcissistic parallel). You've invented a whole new character in your head. This simply doesn't come through in the game every other person plays.
>>724667410If you've ever played The Citadel, Grand Mother Silk is in the exact same predicament as The Sleeping God. They're both asleep but as they toss and turn in their tombs, everyone connected to them is being driven utterly insane and forced to carry out their unconscious will. Phantom was born from GMS in her sleep, but she was made imperfect due to being made with Weaver Runes. She cannot be repaired and so she spends much of her time in stasis whenever she isn't protecting the Citadel. In her despondency over seemingly being abandoned, her grief spread to Lace, who was GMS's second creation born from her insatiable desire for family. Lace was born with a Silk Heart and thus can generate silk and recover from her wounds. However, Lace saw the breaking form of Phantom and began to fear she too would be abandoned, not realizing that it was Phantom who had abandoned GMS by never returning to the peak of the Citadel.The Weavers ran away, some came back (presumably to use the Abyss to trap GMS, only to fail horribly). GMS can't interact with anyone not connected to her threads because she's asleep. Lace cannot speak to GMS because she's asleep. Both Lace and Phantom can only ever guess the will of their mother, but it's only after Lace betrays GMS that she learns GMS never sought to abandon Lace and that she genuinely loved her to the bottom of her heart, hence her ultimate sacrifice.
>60% of the thread is one lolcow talking to himself
>>724667739Who? Give me the details. >>724667480A character being "made of silk" and "singing" at the same time is simply two concepts side by side. It doesn't make these two, separate concepts mix together by itself. In what sense is Lace "all I ask for"?
>>724667765Kek, based picture.Also, either HK3 or Silksong DLC.
>>724667859>She has full control of the citadel. She doesn't stop haunted pilgrims from murdering. She doesn't stop the workers form working themselves to death. She doesn't actually hinder the Citadel from exploiting in any way, shape or form.Because they aren't her family. The Citadel was always a tool to be used by her and her children.>Where is her sorrow, so that I may see it? In what way was it depicted in game?If you speak to that one faggot in Bellhurst after rescuing them, he describes the experience of being Haunted. You are flooded with despair and memories not your own. You become one with a greater entity, but it's the worst experience ever because there is nothing but sadness in her heart.It's in the nature of Pale Beings to be selfish. It's just that the Pale King is uncommonly selfless to the point he'd sacrifice a gorillion of his own children to protect his kingdom, whereas Grand Mother Silk would sacrifice her entire kingdom for a single traitorous child.
>>724667896We're told GMS is asleep. We never see her sleep. One word from Hornet and she's right there, ready to fight. GMS is living in her silk ball. She purposefully made those children, with clear thought accompanying her. That's not the action of a being that is "asleep". And yet "she's beginning to wake up now", while Lace has been around for "ages". The rest of the post is just you making extremely charitable, almost ridiculously so, attempts at whitewashing the goings-on of the GMS family. There's clearly some sort of fanfic material here, because it has little to do with the actual characters, what they actually do, and so on.
>>724668284>We never see her sleepShe's literally in a cocoon. She awakens because the fated battle between them will change the course of Pharloom forever.Like I said, she's in the same state as the Sleeping God. Asleep but dreaming. Semi-conscious and able to exert her divine will, but ultimately enslaved by her grief and nature as a Pale Being. She gave birth to silk children because she was betrayed by the Weavers. The Citadel of Song ceasing its music is the reason she's waking up.
>>724665347>australian abstractionAustralians tend to be pretty straightforward and avoid metaphor. TC are pretty different from the average aussie in that regard.
>>724662627>Arguing that GMS is a weak villainwell first of all she's not a villain. I can see how someone who didn't play the game might get that impression watching streamers and youtube videos though
>>724668549GMS wilfully chose to give the Pharlids sapience, which makes her the biggest villain in the entire franchise.
>>724668646can't really argue with that
>>724663027>You're mistaking me for someone else. >Going by this thread, there's multiple people criticizing different parts of the game, for varying reasons.this entire post OH HO HO HO HO HO HO HO HOcaptcha: WHYDP
>>724667714Yes? I didn't have pink balls for the one at shellwood
>>724668646A mind to think and a will to break is--- le bad actually
>>724668549>well first of all she's not a villain. She kept the citadel going and mindraped its previous occupants into going on suicide missions to kidnap weaver spawn to feed her fake-child hobby
>>724668738Yeah. In the latter end of the thread, I've been the one posting though. And I've never pretended to be anyone but one guy opposing you. In general, your posting is getting more erratic and nonsensical. You should take a break. Go back to /vg/.
>>724623918Based.
>>724668549I don't know, murdering all her first born children is pretty evil. Especially as they were running away and seeking to avoid her. She even goes as far as trying to murder Hornet, who is not even full-weaver. That's genocide. And it's done out of spite.
>>724668852>feed her fake-child hobbyLace is a real girl!
>>724668852>She kept the citadel going and mindraped its previous occupants into going on suicide missions to kidnap weaver spawn to feed her fake-child hobbymaybe they should have had a pale being before she got there. they sound like a bunch savages that needed to be colonized by BWS big white silk
>>724626885>>724628021trannysongsisters...
My main problem with Lace is there's no reason to care about her besides that GMS will bring down the entire kingdom to protect her, which means Lace herself can be replaced with an Egg McMuffin and nothing about the game will change as long as you say it's GMS' favourite Egg McMuffin. And the Egg McMuffin won't waste your time blabbing at you three times with two boss fights.
>>724648553>>724651831>Radiance who also had fuck all written about herBut, unlike GMS, there is a big fucking reason for it.... or you do not understand how Radiance infestation works?
>>724665317>Expand on what you mean.you know all that silk? all the silk throughout the entire game. that silk that's all over. yeah its not orange its silk its white. all the white silk. the enemies who use silk in increasing difficulty. from muddy brown to clean white. white like silk.
>>724666882you mean besides being an oujo sama character in a game? every game needs a bratty oujo sama
>>724670564We don't need your trannyslop here, just saying.
>>724670657????? I'm a man. You however YWNBAW
>>724670564>posts tumblr garbageYeah uh, I still don't see it at all
>>724670764>I'm a manSure thing looney troon, try not to overdose on HRT.
>>724670793>>724670882What does that even mean? I wish wiggers were in this thread. This is the weirdest samefag shit I ever saw. Did you get ran out of your discord and the HK general or something after some gay erp went sour?
>>724668994The weavers fucked her over first because of an autismfit
>>724670958Anon you like her because you're obsessed with gay shipping faggotry like those tumblrinas, I wasn't necessarily wrong with my assumption with lace fans liking her for very vapid reasons.
>>724670958>posts tranny art>gets called a tranny>WTF HECKIN SAMEFAG!!!!!!!!!!!!You need to dilate.
>>724671050>>724671126Samefag-kun I'm reading your posts right now. >>724667410>ran away for a very long time, and were hunted down and exterminated for their "betrayal" when they were no threat, old, sick, demoralized, or infirm.>if everything ties back to GMS, why is she so devoid of character? If she is the cornerstone of the game, why is her characterization a few flashbacks (where the player doesn't know/isn't told she's speaking).Why doesn't she ever interact with Hornet? Why don't we see Lace and GMS interact beyond combat?You're using the Socratic method to build your Lace folder? What is going on in this thread? Have you just been posting bait and bumping your own thread for 14 hours? While saving every Lace image and calling people tranny? Do you think you're shitposting? What's your endgame here?
>>724671043Its not clear based on the game what "slumber"'even means. In any case, it wasn't anything except a means of extricating themselves from GMS. If they wanted to kill her, they probably could've bound her themselves. If not that, something else. If she's sleeping a deep sleep, she would've been defenseless, and not the awake and powerful GMS we see now. But the weavers did not attempt anything like that. Even in a weakened state, they let her live and ran away instead. GMS is extremely vicious for hunting and exterminating a people like that.
>>724671382Your ship has no basis in the reality no matter how many tumblr fanarts you spam to justify its existence, no amount of screaming about samefaggotry will change this simple fact. Just keep in mind that this shit started in Reddit and Tumblr and these faggots have been writing fanfics about how gay the game will be, which thankfully did not end up being true at all.
>>724671382>m-m-muh SAMEFAAAAAAAAAG!!Oh man this troon is off of xis meds again...
now its just a bot thread with chatgpt
>>724669978The orange goo is something specific. It bubbles up from within. It starts as a glow in the eye and ends up being bright and painting cave walls with a saturated orange. The orange goo is always paired with objects it latches onto. There's corpses, walls, skulls, a torso etc. It lives inside the body. This segues into several boss fights, where the status condition of being sick with this bubbling disease is portrayed again and again. The act of being inseminated by orange goo is visualized. The entire last fight is about *going into* the orange goo, or absorbing it all into yourself to stop it. The silk is more inert.The only visually appealing aspect of the silk is when we actually see it attack and puppet pilgrims. Or raise corpses from the dead.That's the most visually coherent Silksong will ever get. But we never get more than this.This act of silk going *into* the bug is never expanded on. We never get to learn about the haunting like that. It simply stays as a neat visual flourish,'nothing inventive having been done with it. When it comes to GMS, she's not using the silk in that way. She uses it like you'd use a rope. Tear down a roof. Tie a knife to the end. Its very pedestrian. And boring.The mystical quality of the silk is lost. Lace, by herself, is the same way. No effort is made to tie these characters to the actual haunting, which in many ways is the driving force of the game.
>>724671382I'm just talking about this game, because I played it for about 50 hours and I have a lot to say. I don't know how to troll so this can't be classed as trolling.'
so it is true that only yurishitters like this character huh
>>724672798>anon cucked by a girllmao
>>724672964bet that's what yuritrannies fantasize about all day
>>724623918But the music isn't good either
>>724655910>Just because an answer "is given" doesn't mean the story isn't badly plotted. Just a heads up.You're arguing with the kind of person who thinks that something being "intended by the developer" automatically makes it good and exempt from critique
>>724669815I mean you don't seem to understand how GMS the scaryinging works. How are you saying nothing with so much conviction?
>>724674247>fanart drawn by a tranny
I don't trust people who post coomer art of lace
>>724671407yes it isno they couldn'tyeah cuz she woke upbecause they ran awayshe didn't do thatwhat the fuck are you talking about
What route i sould take on Steel soul? i already killed Widow! but im really scared of which route to take, i know phantom is easy, but i suck at sinners road and the mist... i think i should not have a lot of problems with Last Judge but im not sure...help a poor pilgrim reach the Citadel
>>724675034There's no point doing a Steel Soul run unless it's a 100% run, so you can knock out both at once, and that means getting as many upgrades and tools as possible before facing each boss so you're as prepared as possible.Dunno why Sinner's Road and the Mist as so hard for you though, they're both just easy pogo tests.
>>724672104like the silklike the silklike the silkno it isnt, yes we do, yes it is, you are missing critical informationyou are missing critical informationyou are missing critical information
>>724675706use the green arrows please other anon is definitely making more arguments than what you're not quoting and it's hard to follow
>>724675868ahh I see why you don't understand anything going on in the game.
>>724675706>you are missing critical informationnta but it's easy to tap-dance and constantly say "you don't understand" without actually explaining. Especially in a game like this where very little is outright explained and you need to hunt down easily missed lore tablets, or needolin songs that 99% of players will ignore.
>>724675920i just told you I'm nta
>>724675336i also dont know why, specially the mist feels awful to play for me, even bilewater was easier.i suppose the slow way you have to play those areas makes me want to speedrun the whole shit, which causes more errors?
>>724676368Honestly that kind of mentality will fuck up any Steel Soul run regardless of the route you take. You need to be patient and play everything safe. I'd say force yourself to go through the Mist until you succeed so you get out of the speedrun mentality.
>>724675980Because every time someone has taken the time to explain, the response is always something trite and subjective like, "not visually striking." >>724660895 literally called it out right before >>724660938 made that exact argument.It's all so tiresome. Every single one of this clown's replies reads like ChatGPT wrote it for him and there's no point in arguing with someone that clearly didn't understand the media he consumed.
>>724677432Oh my fucking God, that guy is back again? I thought this motherfucker went away when he was getting screenshot DIRECT FROM THE GAME answering his questions and he came to the extremely sane conclusion that"Well I didn't see Silk go into a bug at Hunter's March, so I couldn't possibly know that the bugs there are afflicted with the same problem as nearly every other bug in Pharloom"Is this the new ACfag?
>>724641323She's Hornet except with none of what made Hornet interesting.
>>724677745Pretty sure it's the same moron that was arguing that there's no explanation of what the bells do (despite the game literally giving you a quest to ring the bells to open the Grand Gate, if you somehow managed to miss them on the way up) earlier in the week.He's just here to be contrary, all of his arguments read like someone that didn't actually play the game and probably half-watched a YouTube playthrough without even stopping for the mandatory dialogue segments.
>>724677764And what exactly made Hornet interesting? You fight her twice and there's an extremely missable dialogue segment if you do things in a certain order, causing her to appear beside Herrah's body.Contrast with Lace, who... you fight twice, and has an extremely missable dialogue segment if you do things in a certain order and cause her to appear beside the broken bridge.I get that there's an argument to be made that she's just Hornet again, which would be compelling because they're both just The Rival to the player character in their respective games; but she's not Less Interesting Hornet because literally all of Hornet's character development occurs in Silksong; she had about as much backstory in Hollow Knight as Lace does, here.
>>724678432THAT'S SAME FUCKING GUYEither he's a contrarian or he's an idiot. He's that guy who needs a 5 minute exposition dump to make each aspect of the world clear to him, while also arguing that he could understand Hollow Knight. Because he definitely didn't just watch the Mossbag lore video and decide Hollow Knight is this open book. I think the best bet is to stop responding to him
>>724623069Whenever I start understanding a given boss fight the boss just fucking dies a moment later.This started happening with Widow, does anyone else have this problem?Also I looked at Angus Oblong's book again and it would be amazing if this was the inspiration for the 12th architect. But that would be crazy, after all she's in her underwear
>>724678768>if I just be completely reductionist I can ignore how boring Lace is
>>724678768Continuing on this line of thought, I think the single biggest criticism that can be leveled against Silksong is that it's just Hollow Knight Again, with Grand Mother Silk and the Haunting taking the place of the Radiance and the Infection; both are usurped gods who have been banished and bound, are slowly reemerging into the world and exercise mental domination over the bugs of their respective kingdoms.There's additional worldbuilding in Silksong about the Weavers and their role in Pharloom specifically and the world more broadly, but their arc closely mirrors the Pale King's - including the part at the end of their respective plots where the situation becomes untenable and they fuck off to parts unknown under mysterious circumstances (unless you think the Path of Pain flashback literally depicts the Pale King's death on his own throne).But I would argue that this isn't necessarily a bad thing because Gods doing what Gods Do is kind of a recurring motif in Hollow Knight, to the point where an entire DLC was built around the notion of the bugs of a godless kingdom going out to find new ones as the pretext for boss rush mode. Grand Mother Silk, while serving a very similar narrative role to the Radiance, also further helps to characterize her by providing an additional point of reference for what the gods of Hollow Knight's world are like.Basically, tropes exist for a reason and if the formula works, it'll work again.
>>724679074stop using wanderer
>>724679131How is "Hornet with none of what made Hornet interesting" not completely reductionist?
>>724679213I used beast for half the game.
those fuckers at /vg/ played us like a damn NEEDOLIN!
>>724679979i posted the wrong image
>>724678768Hornet has>her first fight (you also see her before the boss arena)>the hollow knight statue at the city of tears (you see her running into the city at fungal wastes), doesn't happen if you defeated a dreamer or did her second fight>second fight at kingdom's edge and saving the knight from the collapse of the shell>her encounter at deepnest by herrah, does not happen if you didn't do her second fight>entrance to the abyss after getting shade cloak, does not happen if you saw the deepnest encounter>entrance to the black egg temple before the final boss, only occurs if you have void heartLace has>her first fight (she only appears in the boss room)>standing at the entrance to sinner's road or blasted steps, does not happen if you did her first fight>entrance to the choral chambers>her second fightLace is in fact less interesting than Hornet because she doesn't do anything aside from fight you and say how weak you are until Hornet has her epiphany and figures out Lace's origin. Hornet on the other hand tries to stop the knight, then sees that maybe things will go differently this time and helps out in the ways she can.The first encounter can be summed up as follows>Hornet you are so weak and frail I shall kill you right now (unless I'm at the blasted steps or sinner's road in which case I don't feel like doing it)Her second encounter is>Wow Hornet you actually plan on fighting a higher being? NerdHer second fight is>Lace I have figured out you are made of silk>Wow I am angry and will kill you
>>724678768>And what exactly made Hornet interesting?Her first appearance is the first time you see another vessel, after she's presumably killed it. She talks to you like she knows what exactly you are and that your mission is one that's terrible, neither of which you the player know. She's the first indication of what the real story of the game actually is.Her second fight, along with her appearance at the fountain if you see her there, is her spurring you on to achieve the game's true ending. If you the player has only done the basic objectives to get the first ending, she's your first clue that there's another possibility and how to get it. She even says as much in her own dialogue, that you alone out of all the vessels have the potential to do something beyond perpetuate the cycle. And after you get the king's crest, she saves you from the ensuing cave-in, further emphasizing you're on the right path.In the final fight against the Hollow Knight, she aids you by opening the way you need to get into his dreams and defeat Radiance. It is impossible to do this without her.Compare this to Lace, and her first fight is her taunting you while telling you nothing you don't already know, her second appearance is taunting you while telling you nothing you don't already know, and only after you beat her a second time does she indicate there's something deeper going on, before promptly collapsing. You could remove her from the game completely and the only thing you'd need to change in the story is that GMS wants to resist the void because she doesn't want to die instead of wanting to save her daughter. Lace changes nothing until the very very end of act 2 right before the credits roll.
>tfw dying is illegal in PharloomWhat the fuck CAN you do here besides work?
>>724663107I wish we could save her. She's the most tragic character in the whole game
>>724681645Thing is Lace can do and go wherever she wants. But Phantom was specifically given a job to work at the organ. Even though she wanted to die in a blaze of glory
>>724623918>10/10 to 8/10That's being generous, specially since the fetch quests and excessive backtracking are mandatory for the true ending.
The mesugaki is gonna make people nad for years lmao
>>724681034>>724681050Comparing Lace to Hornet from HK is setting up too much of a false expectation. Hornet is the deuteragonist of HK, and there is a lot of space to fill given the Knight's complete silence and general mystery. Hornet in Silksong has more lines of dialogue than any other character, and even despite that the NPCs are more fleshed out than in HK. Even so, Lace is only one resident of Pharloom among many, and the game is not about her. It's not trying to make the game about her. Even her being the final boss is basically a fluke as far as the story is concerned. The emphasis is really on Hornet and her decisions, especially in Act 3. People keep trying to make the "Lace doesn't have enough of a presence to justify her inclusion" argument, but it's not clear to me how, or why, and just seems like an arbitrary expectation. Especially in a Metroidvania? That said, even this thread is full of little details that aren't obvious, and most people probably missed, or ignored.
I want to FUCK Shakra
>>724684392You make multiple points that contradict each other.>Hornet in Silksong has more lines of dialogue than any other character, and even despite that the NPCs are more fleshed out than in HK.>People keep trying to make the "Lace doesn't have enough of a presence to justify her inclusion" argument, but it's not clear to me how, or why, and just seems like an arbitrary expectation. Especially in a Metroidvania? Other SS NPCs are more fleshed out than Lace. These NPCs, despite being side characters of whom the game is about, manage to be fleshed out enough that players felt attached to them. Lace by comparison, despite being the final boss and the character who reappears the most in mandatory scenes for the main story, is less fleshed out not only compared to those other side characters, but to multiple side characters in HK. It's not arbitrary for her to rise to the same level as other side characters, and being a Metroidvania isn't an excuse when, again, there are multiple characters in the same game and in the first game who are more fleshed out than her.Additionally, both of the posts you replied to are responding to the same post directly comparing Hornet and Lace as a way to equate Hornet in HK to the level of Lace in SS, which is patently false. To respond to these posts with "that's a false expectation" is just showing you aren't paying attention to the argument at hand.I understand what the story was going for, my personal argument is that what they were going for simply wasn't good and should've been reworked.
>>724684901>Unzips dick>She calls you child wielding needle
>>724684901Poshanka?
Hollow Knight was just a repackaging of Dark Soul 1's plot beatsSilksong is way better as Hornet's heros journey
its a neat setting and story on its own merits i guess but the most interesting (and dare i say epic) parts are callbacks to the last one
What the FUCK was the father of flames?
>>724623069>1000 year old vantablack bratty ojousama loliFavorite character from the moment I saw her and then she turned out to have three fights and be the canon wife. I fucking love Silksong.
>>724685696I don't know but I'm pretty sure those bugs aren't Haunted. And that's because those bugs took the flame wisps inside their bodies which burned the Silk that would've enslaved them. They destroyed the cancer with a superior cancer.
>get ready to unlock Act 3>prerequisite is to beat GMS>Now that you beat her here's a quest to help you beat her!>huh?>No one tells you what the item does or why you would need it>huh?>Hornet just agrees to it without hesitation unlike any other encounter in the game>huh?>have to knowingly do something retarded>turns out to be the most retarded shit you could've done>it decimates the value of what've you done so far>Hornet doesn't even punish those who "tricked" her>Hornet immediately falls apart as a good protagonistI just don't get it. Were they that desperate to make Act 3? I don't want spoilers but there's no way any ending from Act 3 could beat the normal ending if you just beat the GMS normally right?
>>724685968>prerequisite is to beat GMSI don't think you need to get the normal ending to reach Act 3Also I don't think you properly read the dialogue throughout the quest
>>724685696>>724685894The bugs there lived under the Underworks, so their only concept of the holy Citadel was the heat coming out of the Cauldron. They thus concluded that they must worship heat and fire in order to become pure and holy enough to ascend into the blessed Citadel. Father of the Flame was basically an embodiment of that cult, with bugs sacrificing themselves into it to try and ascend through self-immolation, eventually gaining enough soul to become active itself.
>>724686110They just kept saying a trap to snare GMS. Hornet doesn't ask what kind of trap it is or how it particularly does this.
>>724686224pretty sure Caretaker said you should be looking for a weavenest>but which one though?this is when you must think very hard
>>724685968Judging from the amount of "huhs" you can't read.What are you expecting a smart Hornet to do? Kill the snails, who are the only ones that can fix things?
>>724686807When you meet them after the curse they just say you should've expected them to do this shit. They don't even offer any help and just tell you to do whatever you want. But if you don't play the game or explore apparently they will recommend the diving bell. I actually explored and found it so that dialogue never came up. So they say nothing of assisting you until later. Hornet says she may have use of them later but does nothing to keep them there.
>>724666905>fragile>Team Cherry grins sadistically>Hollow Knight: Lacelore comes out 14 years from now>every enemy attack does 3 damage
>>724687050>Worrying about SNAILS running awayThey mostly tell you to fuck off because the plan involves giving up their lives so they need to discuss it. Of course you're not supposed to realize that until later
>>724687183>snails running awayI remember in the first game snails can still move at regular speed. And yeah, Act 3 and Silk & Soul seems to depend heavily on you investing in not asking questions and just agreeing to things. Hornet will ask everything from why someone is selling particular merchandise or why they write a journal. But magic mystery spell said to involve craft beyond the citadel that will mysteriously snare the GMS? Silent.
>>724685968There are parts of the game where Hornet seems to just know shit and outright doesnt tell the player through dialogue
>>724687653Sounds like she didn't know enough if she trusted mysterious spells and snares from beyond the citadel. Use it only when GMS is about to die, when Hornet would be binding her now vulnerable power?
So because this board loves to speak in hyperbole and remove context for the sake of bitching, I decided to review the conversation between Hornet and The Caretaker>Caretaker: Aye... Maybe, yes. I can barely bear to tell it... But there's an idea, one rare discussed, for fear of her up there sensin' the score.>Hornet: You have conceived a method, I take it? A way to see a monarch... removed? And me left free from claiming her station?>Caretaker: We have, me and what remains of my family. S'a trap, of a sort, beyond the skill of this Citadel, one to go further than just her binding. You'd be just the hunter to set it, if you're dare enough to try...>Hornet: Grant me your aid, sir. If your trap provides a path to freedom, both for myself and your land's bugs, I may indeed choose to trigger it. What work do you require of me now to see your service made?>Caretaker: It's my family's strength you'll need be seeking, bellringer, us three ol' bugs still alive, spread 'cross this kingdom, and one poor cousin dead and drained in swamps choked rotten. Each has power. Raw, savage stuff! For you, they'll give it, if for their fascination at the act, or the thrill of defiance... or because they have no choice at all. And last, as the base, seek a weapon of Weavers past. Should still be one left, down there in their largest nest, a snare to set a rune'o searing Silk. Our own trap'll be woven tight about it.Caretaker gives a brief enough explanation as to what the trap is. It combines Snail magic with Weaver Runes. Hornet is experienced with both so when Caretaker says the intent of the trap is to create a "rune'o searing Silk," Hornet has no reason to doubt him. The problem isn't Hornet not asking questions, the problem is Caretaker omitting the use of Void in the trap. Something Hornet rightfully calls out in their next meeting
Why does Hornet need to bind GMS every time anyway?Cant she just beat her up and then leave?Im a retard so I genuinely do not know
>>724688016Killing a Pale Being is really fucking hard. Of the 3 Pale Beings we see, 2 of them was killed by Void. Hell Grand Mother Silk was dunked into the Abyss and she still didn't die.What's more Pale Beings are monarchs down to their blood. She's not gonna throw up her hands and say "welp I tried" if Hornet gives her a bloody nose and then leaves. Grand Mother Silk would've hunted her to the ends of the earth. I know she would because she's already hunted Hornet to the ends of the earth to bring her to Pharloom in the first place.
You just don't kill higher beings/pale beings without doing extra shit.Like the only reason we mogged the Radiance in Godhome and the Black Egg is because of the abyss.
Act 3 is fucking kino bro, I kind of hated the game's difficulty in act 1 and 2, but the flea circus and the fact the game has left itself to be mostly just optional content with the story "over" is great.
>>724688235I would like to point out that The Radiance was just a Higher Being, not even a Pale Being, and she brought Hollownest to its knees by enslaving everyone's minds while hiding in an alternate dimension. Higher Beings and Pale Beings are stupid broken in the world of Hollow Knight. Makes you wonder what a mature Hornet will be. Mr Mushroom already implies that she'll gain the Pale King's foresight.
>>724687928>Hornet is experienced with both so when Caretaker says the intent of the trap is to create a "rune'o searing Silk," Hornet has no reason to doubt him.Adding to this, when you bring everything back to make the trap, the Caretaker uses Hornet's own silk as part of it.
:)
>>724688490Pale King might have lost but damn all that fucking gave him three broken ass kids.One has the Void Heart and presumably has the Nightmare Heart as a companion.One is on her way to becoming this an amalgamtion between Weaver and Wyrm while also having a Silk being as a companion.And presuming he's alive, Hollow Knight was able to contain the Radiance for ages and is now free to also grow into whatever fucked form of godhood that awaits him.
Reminder that Groal has killed a pinmaster and a snail making him and his tribe the hardiest bastards not affiliated with the citadel, are they even haunted? Though I guess the Skarr are haunted and still do ant things, so I guess it doesn't matter too much anyway.
>>724688685Honestly The Hollow Knight's resilience alone puts him above bullshit tier compared to other bugs. He contained the full power of The Radiance, solo, for who knows how long. Even as an imperfect vessel, meaning The Hollow Knight had a mind for The Radiance to torture and he just didn't break for years, possibly decades. There is no other bug that could survive under those conditions. And even with The Radiance lifting up his body through cysts growing out of him, the Hollow Knight is still strong enough to try and kill itself, against The Radiance's control.
>>724688685>>724688962Hollow Knight is 100% going to be the player character in the next game, and it will 100% be him wrecking shit in the City of Steel for reasons to be determined.
>>724688685>>724688962THK THIRD GAME
Lace's story is simply unfinished. She was clearly supposed to be this game's Hornet but only shows up to fight twice and you can skip her first fight entirely if you go to sinner's road instead of fighting her in deep docks.
>>724689051No you cant retard unless you use some glitches I don't know of
>>724688846>the Skarr are hauntedisnt karmelita protecting them still?
>>724689160she's too busy getting dicked by me
>>724689160I'm sure Hornet mentions it in one of the bestiary entries while remarking them not being haunted wouldn't change a thing probably.
>>724689160Yes the Skarr are Haunted. Karmelita WAS protecting them with her own song but eventually she lost her voice and became weak. And once Karmelita fell, there was nothing to stop the Skarr from being taken. You can even see Grand Mother Silk's threads on the Skarr when you use the Needolin on them.
>>724689051She also appears in between Shellwood and Blasted Steps if you don't go through Sinner's Road.>>724689115Either of the key doors bypasses her completely, and once you trigger her scene in either Sinner's Road or Blasted Steps you can go back to Deep Docks and ring the bell without fighting her if you still want to go through Last Judge.
>>724689285>"All for the singer...">"...Is this still her song?"
zote game when
EIRA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>>724689479>Never says ShawThat's her name for the Knight, isn't it.
>>724689285Interesting that Gurr doesn't have the threads. All three of the mottled Skarrs (Gurr, the shopkeep who gets killed, and the curvesickle kid) are unaffected by the Haunting, wonder if they somehow got a genetic mutation.
NAO
>>724689380>"...Is this still her song?"That is so fucking sad. There's a lot of sad Needolin thoughts. Like the jail bugs wonder to themselves why they were born into bondage. There are Citadel bugs asking why is their paradise like this? Even with Grand Mother Silk flooding their thoughts, Haunted bugs know that something is wrong>jailed bugs aren't hauntedHuh. Neat.
>>724689628Everyone keeps saying mottled and stuff, I think they are outright branded and well their individuality keeps them sane as with everybody else not haunted.
>>724689523There are multiple enemies in Silksong who say it, shame they couldn't give Hornet a 1/256 chance to say it when activating a silk skill.
>>724689714>>724689628>Our mark is no curse...>We still hear it... From the mottled scout's Needolin dialogue
>>724689721There's a mod to change her voice lines for silkskills to her HK1 battle lines, and her taunt to her HK1 lines.I used it for a while and gotta say it feels a bit strange. I'm guessing they didn't include the SHAW and stuff in SS because it makes Hornet sound like she's shouting the name of an attack like fighting game character.
Pale King did NOTHING fucking wrong. And no shitty retcons TC might do will ever change that.
>>724689884>retconsdid i miss anything in silksong? if anything, the city layout, religion in the citadel and the fucking rosaries make the PK look better
>>724689884what retcons? His plan was shit aside from somehow creating the Knight by chance
>>724689884Silksong absolved PK thoughbeit
>>724689884The only "retcons" made PK come off as better, especially Red Memory where Hornet finally accepts the necessity of what they did.
>>724689884Retcons? Every new bit of information we get on Pharloom makes PK look better in comparison. The only slight against PK we get in Silksong was Hornet calling her father a fool for every believing The Void could be controlled
>>724688016caretaker said gods aren't designed to die. They needed a whole convuluted plan on top of beating her up, which no mortal could do until Hornet came along. Hornet couldn't even kill her unless she binded her, which makes Hornet lose herself in the process so that's a bad end
>>724689884It's always funny to see retards like you saying shit preemptively without knowing fuck all.
>>724689884>silksong retcons>every pale being will genocide any other empire thats under his territorythis just confirms that the PK is better than any other pale beings since he didnt genocide all the other nations under him
>>724690053Which is fucking crazy considering the Pale King literally transformed himself into a lesser bug. He would have ben unassailable in Wyrm form.
>>724689951>>724689954I'm not replying to all you retards. I said MIGHT. Whatever they MIGHT do. Because when talking to the green fag Hornet says her pale kind only allow devotion or destruction. Which is an odd thing to say if Pale King was so benevolent. Plus that one underworks enemy entry where she wonders about the foundations of her own kingdom.
>>724690163>you see this things that makes the PK look better than other pale beings?>thats actually bad and it will be a retconkys brownoid
>>724690101Hell he employed them. The Mantis Village never bent the knee but they did assign themselves as Hollownest's guards against Deepnest. And even though the Weavers and Herrah wanted nothing to do with The Pale King, especially since they were still technically on the run from Grand Mother Silk, Pale King was still able to negotiate a truce and use the Weaver's spells and bindings to seal The Radiance. AND Weaver silk parchment became popularly used in City of Tears, meaning Pale King employed The Weavers anyway
>>724690213Do you know how to read?
I still don't get how SS makes Pale King look better. Help a retard out
>>724690410just look at underworks
>>724690457What does that have to do with the pale king?
>>724690410It shows hes the only higher being that isnt a complete crazy cunt who actually worships his people the same they worship him.
>>724623069>silly lolAnd a badly done plot device with barely any character to speak of.
>>724690410It mostly comes from how their main kingdoms function and how the surrounding kingdoms function>HollownestObviously Hollownest isn't the best now but you can see how it used to run. There are places of leisure, the economy STILL works. Outside of Hollownest, the villages can still be themselves. Deepnest was still Deepnest even after they destroyed the Tramway. The Hive was still it's own thing. The Mantis Village is still populated. Hollownest has problems but overall, a strong new leader could've restored it>PharloomPharloom, at its best, was a hellhole. Caste and chattel slavery EVERYWHERE. Death was outlawed because dead bugs can't work. Outside of Pharloom is nothing but death. Karak no longer exists. Verdania no longer exists. The Nameless Town is a corpse. Everything Grand Mother Silk couldn't use was ground to dust. The Weavers are described as viscous by all but the Pilgrims. The Underworks... just all of it. Rosaries are both currency and sign of faith so being poor was considered a sign of a lack of faith which is not fun when you live in a theocracy.
>>724690410I'll be devils advocate. Personally i don't think it does. He's a decent ruler but nothing in silksong really changed that opinion. The timeline is wonky and we don't know yet how much GMS was directly responsible for a lot of stuff since the citadel is her prison and she's been asleep. If anything, silksong showed how mortals are absolutely inept at maintaining a civilization.
>>724685750>tumblrtranny fanfiction
>>724690783Okay I think that's why I was confused about this PK apology meme. I never saw him as a terrible dictator king or anything. He was trying to fix things, made compromises, and things looked pretty good in a lot of the kingdom. Path of Pain's little scene shows he was a reluctant dad.
>>724690783So I'll cosign with you on ONE thing. I gotta go back to the Whispering Vaults to get the exact quote but Pious Isamor says something to the effect of "all are equal." While the statue is still telling you to enslave yourself for the sake of Pharloom, that "all are equal" is the exact opposite of what we see. When that statue was built, the Citadel was at least preaching that there were no ranks and everyone had to consecrate themselves equally. But the Pharloom we see has castes. The Conductors are, objectively, above everyone else. The Vaultkeeper gets mad because no one but the Vaultkeepers can look at their books, except for the "First Children." The Pontiff hoarded the songs of the Citadel and wouldn't allow anyone to hear them. Actually Pious Isamor is IN HIS ROOM!Somewhere between the Weavers leaving and the Conductors rising to power, the caste system was established. Meaning for whatever the Weavers, or even Grand Mother Silk, did wrong, the castes weren't their fault.
>>724691006Most of the hatred towards the Pale King comes from the creation of the vessels. Because his do you empathize with a King who knowingly murdered thousands of his own children? I mean yeah we know the context. But most others don't seem to care
>>724691019The weavers are the first children though
>>724691019According to Mask Maker, after the weavers sealed their mother, they established themselves as the new rulers. Then after GMS started waking up, they panicked and eventually ran once they made sure the 'lesser born' bugs could keep the giant divine prison running
Playing HK again I don't get the crystal mine area, what is that supposed to tell me about Hallow Nest?Also who made the giant Robots?
>>724689628>GurrWhat was his first name again?
>>724691764Hurr
>thought that "Pharloom" is a play on Far Loom>it's actually from the Pharlids that the Weavers were forcibly evolved from>mfw the Weavers probably changed the kingdom's name from something else after they put GMS to sleep
>>724688962>>724689031>THK sequel>Realize that only works with Embrace the Void ending>the Knight found a way to kill Radiance and save his bro>It required him to do insane boss rushes>He canonically did itThat's rad.
>>724690701>Pharloom, at its best, was a hellhole. Caste and chattel slavery EVERYWHERE. Death was outlawed because dead bugs can't work. Outside of Pharloom is nothing but death. Karak no longer exists. Verdania no longer exists. The Nameless Town is a corpse. Everything Grand Mother Silk couldn't use was ground to dust. The Weavers are described as viscous by all but the Pilgrims. The Underworks... just all of it. Rosaries are both currency and sign of faith so being poor was considered a sign of a lack of faith which is not fun when you live in a theocracy.Most of these are the actions of the conductors though.
>>724688846>killed a pinmaster? where do? the body and balloon are found above the putrefied ducts, someway from Bilewater proper in gamescale. i took it to mean the sister had simply succumbed to the state of things in general, given up. i still believe those balloonships should've been utilized in some shape or form in the latergame. perhaps as a way to believably float the flea caravan to their destinations. as it is, it seems impossible to comprehend how those bellwagons made it up the blasted steps and over the shattered ducts.
>>724692120Language and etymology is often a two-way street. Pharlids easily could've gotten their name from their location. Names more commonly work like this. Seems dumb, even for Silksong, to name an entire kingdom after some arbitrary bug-spider. Remember that the Weavers didn't understand their origins for a long time.
Just completed speedrunner at 3:06 and now have all cheevos. I was honestly getting fucking tilted at the High Walls gauntlet. The only things I bothered to get on my run were Wanderer Crest and the Injector Band. Shit was brutal and I even got Garmond to help me out. Shakra I know would have been better but fuck doing all those prerequisites for her. The fakfuck duo kept getting me repeatedly until I got lucky one run with me and Garmond focusing on one and managing to get it out of the fight before it got hairy. Rest of the run was a breeze after that. Whew, have over 178hrs in the game at this point and I still want to do more playthroughs. Love this game so much bros.
>>724691078>murderedwell the void entered the eggs before they even hatchedmore of an abortion really, you'd think the redditors would be more accepting
>>724667859The orders to capture weavers were sent out by Conductors. It is a Choral Commandment, bear in mind that access to the Cradle is restricted to 3 characters. She doesn't have full control over anything, again, when you get sent to the void the enemies keep attacking you. If she had total control, the flies would take you to the cradle. Her main motivation is that she is desperate to wake -Hunter's Journal.
>>724694139Nah. The silk hearts confirm GMS was behind it
>>724694169The silk hearts there are about Lace... helping Hornet get to the Citadel... and the Haunting?
>>724691078Why did he lock up all his dead kids in there instead of letting them out
>Damned bugs... >We prayed a cage... >We sang your chains... >Divine Silk..>Damn bugs...Damned bugs? What mean? Was my nigga the late Pontiff shrimply lamenting the nature of things?
>>724694250he didnt want a bunch of dead kids with no emotions and capable of getting soul powers running around
>>724623918>She singlehandedly moves the entire game down a peg.trvke
>>724694252Pope was shocked to find out the true purpose of the Citadel was to imprison Silk. He was so shocked he then died
>>724657651Adult Pontiff Sherma slinging quick spells with his bell and attacking with a spirit sword coming out of his sceptre, teleporting around while a bass-baritone gregorian chant version of his song plays in the background like Duel of the Fates."FARIDURA SIMANET!DONIPUANA VORINET!PINASAMI MAINISET!!DANA FONSIURAVA!!!
>>724694139At that point GMS was already in control of the Citadel.
>>724688846>>724692580I always thought that Huntress killed her. I have no evidence for thinking this it's just a theory I like.
>>724697589Nope, the Choral Commandments are all issued by the citadel, and this specific one is dirty and worn. The last Commandment was the one to proclaim the Cog core
>>724697763>are all issued by the citadelSaid citadel is haunted by gms
Grandma gave the orders you retardsUnless you think the citadel took ages to get from one kingdom and back
>>724692206The MCs keep getting bigger
>>724697763Why are these commandments and "battle reports" and so on located in GMS' room for her to view them? Why are all the cages that used to contain Weavers sent to her? Why would Conductors spend a lot of resources to eradicate Weavers? What do they, greedy as they are, gain from killing the old and infirm old aristocracy, when they are on the other side of the world? These are the types of holes you dig yourself into, when you refuse to actually change your initial "take" on the game. In your case, you view GMS as an innocent proxy for others, so everything must adhere to that, no matter how nonsensical it makes the story. It also helps that Conductors essentially can't defend themselves, they're already dead or dying when we go to them. Perfect patsy to launder GMS' every crime and heinous act. This is on TC. They didn't define exactly what "Sleep" means wrt GMS, hence all these guys make insane conclusions and live in la-la-land.
>>724630428Bump
>>724689704>>jailed bugs aren't hauntedGMS doesn't want to touch them even with her threads
I'll never understand how people can listen to Pale Court and come away with the conclusion the Pale King is not meant to be read as a tragic character.https://youtu.be/LCYP9L2FfQg?si=OVdd1I0BQjzPb0V0
>>724692530Bigtime this. There is literally nothing in the actual text of the game to suggest that, prior to her imprisonment, Grand Mother Silk was anything other than a beneficent god in the same mold as the Pale King. The Weavers betrayed her and set up the Citadel of Song, built atop their own spires, for their own glorification and as a pretext to keep mortal bugs singing to reinforce the sleeping spell they placed GMS under.Every single excess of the Citadel came about as a direct result of the Weavers' actions, and the increasing decadence of the Citadel after they left. The Conductors expanded the Citadel into Bilewater, waged war against Karak and Verdania, instituted the caste system and built their steampunk dystopia atop the enslaved bugs of the Underworks, and sought to defy death by stitching silk into the shells of living bugs in the Whiteward, all while Grand Mother Silk was still asleep.When she does finally start to wake, whatever kingdom Grand Mother Silk had ruled was long gone, replaced by a theocratic oligarchy in decline under the negligent rule of the Conductors. Even bound within her cocoon and only able to influence silk-stitched bugs that had already willingly bound themselves to her, her only actions were to hasten her own awakening and to use the Citadel's soldiers to bring back her wayward daughters or their descendants. You can't blame the state of the Citadel on her because that's the way she found it when the Weavers' spell started to break.>durr hurr but then why'd she fight Hornet if she just wanted to wake upBecause Hornet climbed to the top of the cradle looking for a fight and challenged her directly. Would GMS have accepted her submission if it had been offered? Yeah, probably, her first words to Hornet are inviting her to witness her awakening. But they're both pale beings and in Hornet's own words, pale beings only accept domination or destruction - which she then proves by murdering a guy during a moment of grief.
>>724700659Pale King reads like the white, patriarchal authority figure par excellence. Which is obviously unacceptable to some people. What he was, what he stands for,whatever merits and traits he passed onto Hornet should be discussed as little as possible. Even though it is his influence that makes her an effective leader.
>>724700924She's not a leader
>>724700850Where did Weavers get all those ideas from, huh? What kind of authority figure was GMS? Absurd apologia. Absurd whitewashing.Which "spire" in the citadel is of Weaver make?
>>724700978You're delusional. Pale King making Hallownest what it became started with the type of stuff Hornet does in Pharloom.
>>724700850didnt gms destroyed verdania, whatever the kingdom of khann and tried to take over the ants? sure, she wasnt a sadistic monster trying to inflict as much suffering as possible but she did genocide at least 2 kingdoms unless im wrong
If you dislike Pale King, I'd like to know how your relationship with your father is like. Chances are like 99.99% they are correlated.
>>724701038She's literally not a leader though, she's not leading anyone or anything
>>724701058That was all GMS. People are seriously tripping because GMS is le innocent women so frail she dindu nuffin
>>724701110she also made bilewater the shithole it is today
>>724701080Inspiring figure bringing new life, saving everyone, bringing everyone together into one tent. She just has to ask, and everyone will join her in building a new society together. That's what her dad did, and that's what she's doing.
>>724700659What is this delusional shit lmao
I just want to say that despite the shitflinging and accusations of schizofaggotry or samefagging I really appreciate the analysis and interpretations people come up with and make for really fun to read threads.
>a childwhat's the potential of making reddit basedmales who call this game a masterpiece into pedos over that heh
>>724701230It's called "Tumblr".
>>724701230they cannot reconcile that a character named the PALE KING is not a black and white disney villain
If people want to defend GMS, they are free to do so, but they should accept her crimes and work within her actual acts to rehabilitate them. That's the only way you can get out of this. Look at people defending Hitler for inspiration. Try to justify the mass murder of jews/weavers, instead of simply stating this never happened, or they died for other reasons wholly unrelated to GMS (while she literally has all the corpses in her chambers). It looks less cowardly if you do it this way. >>724701290Yeah I enjoy doing it as well. Its fun when there's some holes to poke through. Hollow knight, barring issues regarding sentience wrt Vessels and Pale King motivations, had less discussion overall, due to being a more solid and straightforward work.
>>724700997>Where did Weavers get all those ideas from, huh? What kind of authority figure was GMS?A permissive one, clearly. She uplifted the pharlids and gave them the gift of silk, told them that they were divine creatures and granted them free will - which they then used to plot in secret to overthrow her, because they were greedy. When she reawakens after being imprisoned by the Weavers, she uses her silk to dominate the bugs of Pharloom so they'll do her bidding but she still gives Lace, her new daughter, free will and is betrayed again as a result.>>724701058Karak is preserved in the Memorium, and the Green Prince's boyfriend was the template for the Clockwork Dancers when the Architects built the Cogwork Core, so both kingdoms destruction had to have occurred after the Citadel was built - and the Citadel was built to confine GMS. This is simple order of operations, you can't pin it on GMS because it was done by the Conductors while GMS was imprisoned.I get it, differentiating "villain" and "antagonist" is hard when you don't pay attention to the story, but Grand Mother Silk is a tragic character and it's not whitewashing to say so.
>>724700997>Which "spire" in the citadel is of Weaver make?Mosshome.And Far Fields.And Greymoor.And the Cauldron.And so many others. Hornet literally points out that the Citadel is built on top of ancient Weaver structures when she first encounters the Moss Druid.
>>724690701>The Weavers are described as viscousi thought they were spiders, not slugs
>>724701641Those are not spires. That's a hidden base, always dug *into* the area, hidden from view, requiring passcodes to enter. There are no Weaver bases in easy to reach areas with other people around. Hence, these buildings are not made for "glorifying" the weavers at all. Be reasonable
>>724701489>and the Citadel was built to confine GMSNot true. It was a place of worship, and still was, when GMS was "trapped" in there. (GMS was never trapped).
>>724687183always liked that detail in the conversationyou think they're conferring because they're discussing if a solution is possible, but what they're actually discussing is if they're willing to die based on a long shot plan from hornet
>>724701781My guy, that is the Weaver spire in Mosshome where you get Silkspear. It is right out in the open. All of the spires that you get core abilities are.You're confusing them with the Weavenests, which are in out-of-the-way places but are all still big, conspicuous Weaver structures that anyone can look at and say, "yep, that's where Weavers live."
>>724701945Conceded in part. Theyre still not anywhere near the level of the citadel, and the idea that Weavers were putting themselves over other bugs, GMS etc to that extent, because they built a few buildings in far away places is nonsensical.
>>724701945Stop arguing with people that didn't play the game
I already thought the Pale King was the good guy before Silksong
>>724623069Why do only mentally ill morons play this game?
>AIIIEEEEEE WHY IS THE PATRIARCHAL COLONIZING WHITE-CODED MONARCH CHVD BEING PAINTED AS THE TRAGIC GOOD GUY????kekaroo
>>724701838>the Citadel of Song was built to worship GMS>the song they sing in the Citadel of Song is the means by which GMS is kept sleeping>clearly this means that GMS was never asleep even though we're literally told that she was and it did by multiple characters Absolutely uninformed take, shameful in fact.
Lace could've been 1000 times better if she just had at least one appearance per area, just something basic like taunting hornet and going OHHOHOHOHOHOHOHO at the start of a gauntlet. by the time I reached Lace 2 I had completely forgotten my fight with her in act 1.
>>724702207>>724702328What some people still don't realize about the worldbuilding of the first game is how a lot of the build up is structured so the player is led into thinking the Pale King must be the big bad, almost like a red herring; the actual source of the Infection is shrouded in mistery through the majority of the game, and it's not until you have fully digged through the game and talked to the White Lady, found the Radiance statue in Crystal Peak, finished Seer's quest, completed the Path of Pain and used the Dream Nail on The Hollow Knight that everything clicks.
>>724702853The people that don't realize that are the people that didn't do any of that shit. They got the basic bitch facetank ending, never explored the Ancient Basin or unlocked the Abyss, never found the White Palace and don't care to because it contradicts their existing opinion.The Pale King is bad. Why else would he be white?
>>724701945>>724701781good, interesting posts>>724702076terrible postdon't be like the third guy. He is the worst type of poster a thread can have, even lower than a coomposter or derailer
>>724699878Anon... access to the Cradle is restricted , you need to beat the Cog Dancers and get the 3fold melody. Again, Silk cannot view them because she is bound in that cocoon. As for why the conductors want the weavers- not to kill them, but for Silk production. The Commandments are explicitly said to have come from Conductors.
>>724702950I don't think it's just that, a lot of people nowadays are just completely incapable of truly engaging with anything and their first move is going online to see and spoil themselves of all the meta arguing going on. My experiences playing Hollow Knight and Silksong would have been completely different had I barged in with the expectations of what these threads go over. In that way, it's basically experiencing the story completely backwards to how it is supposed to be.
>>724701838Anon please, this is the authors self insert telling you this: Aye. Devised by your ancestors that monstrosity, and their wicked, clever minds. A system, or a web they'd likely call it, a way to keep their mother sealed in slumber, and themselves free to lavish in their false rule.
>>724703240We're explicitly told that GMS is the one who did it. Pay attention to the silk heart dialogue as well as lace's dialogue
>finish the game a few days ago>watch some random video today about tool ranking>find out you can tauntWhat the fuck
>>724700997Oh you're the dynasty schizo Anon. Please post that image again it's funny. The weaveggas inherited GMS' plae being nature of dominance. She is quite lenient on her children.>>724701058For Khann it's unclear but it's possible GMS did it. Verdania was polluted to death by the Citadel, and when the haunting started the caves collapsed it would seem. She cannot have personally invaded it, as there is no possible time frame for it. The Ants mistake the Haunting (which is described as a Siren song) for Karmelita's song. That's hoe the ants feel. You can easily resist the haunting if you have the will it seems, going by what the 2 guys in sinners road say. Seems an opt out thing (at least until she wakes up) >>724701489I agree that she's more of a tragic antagonist, her only real crimes are : expecting the weavers to always worship her, and allowing said trauma from betrayal to lead her into making children completely dependent on her .
>>724703397Could you please show said dialogue here? Do you mean the unravelled?
Lace literally hates Hornet because she thought GMS wanted her.
>>724703240I think it's probably fair to say that by the time of Hornet's arrival, GMS is calling the shots. She's the archetypal sleeping god, she has minions under her sway doing her bidding even if she, herself, is not personally giving orders. Conductor Ballador is dependent on his silk IV to live so GMS only has to pluck his strings and he'll do whatever she wants.This is actually borne out by the cage room in the Cradle. The Choral Commandment in Mosshome clearly shows that the Conductors ordered Hornet's capture ("claim the Weaver, in half part"), and the cages all describe the fate of the other Weavers they were sent to capture. This is only necessary while there is some semblance of autonomy on the part of the Choir.But at the start of the game, with GMS on the verge of awakening, the haunting enters a new and more overt phase with GMS' silk wholly possessing mortal bugs and forcing them to serve. Widow's dialogue addresses this, as she guides GMS' silk to enslave Bellhart. Those snared are only capable of performing the most rote tasks (Forge Daughter on the other Deep Dock workers, "They still work at their tasks, in a simple way, but they're useless for conversation.") so it's not a stretch to infer that complex tasks like, "go out into the wastes and find a single bug who may or may not resemble a Weaver, capture them and bring them back, and use this specific tool to do it" would be too much for a haunted bug to do without at least some of their own agency.There's also a level of escalation observed on the climb up to the Cradle, with the haunting affecting first living bugs, then reanimating corpses as you discover the tomb that the Citadel has become. There's a visual storytelling that goes on as you discover just how abandoned the Citadel has become in falling silent and permitting GMS to reawaken.
>>724703873GMS did want her. Hornet is a Weaver, and GMS is still hung up on the Weavers' betrayal - she wants her children, or her children's children, brought back and made to repent.Lace's problem is that she's bratty and petulant, incapable of understanding that her mother can still love her while still loving her other children. She's got an inferiority complex because she thinks GMS intentionally made her wrong after watching Phantom fray, so she's got something to prove over Hornet.
>saw two kids wearing Hornet outfits out on the street todayWHAT THE FUCK
>>724704702Sorry bro but HK is mainstream slop.
>>724702851This is how you fix Lace>shows up and runs away when picking up the silk spear before hornet gets a chance to talk>has an appearance after leaving a needolin door if hornet has already had the first encounter at deep docks, blasted steps or sinners road>unique dialogue if you take the phantom route into act 2>change the high halls guantlet to be caused by lace silking the enemies>add a small chance for lace to laugh at you on respawn while in the citadel before her second fight is doneAs for what the two will say in these new encounters, I don't fucking know but she needs more screen time so people don't walk away thinking she's a nothing character
>>724703240Clearly conductors delivered all the cages and all the battle reports to GMS, Why did they deliver them to GMS unless it was on GMS' orders? Why would conductors ever want to hunt down Weavers if not on GMS' behalf?
