lrn2spel

the only game ever made to be so good that it wraps around to being bad

Felt it had too many systems, never got to the end of the game cus I was fucking around with stuff. Liked the mech.

>>724758045
I played the shit out of the first one but this put me in a bad mood from the start and I'm not sure why. I didn't get far

>>724758714
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDgKzeGNUPE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bYmVUxNe7o

one of my favorite games period. hearing the intro song now gets me a bit emotional

>>724758045
I got stuck years ago because they wanted me to play as the chick in some endgame dungeon and she was level 1.

>>724758413
lmao this is true

>>724761308
>>724758413
Why’s that?

>>724758714
Getting fuel for the mech probably locked you out in the beginning. I think theres a trick to get fuel for free

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>>724758045
I dont know why the "dear mother" at the start is something i cant forget.

>>724758045
More like Busywork Simulator 2002.

I really liked the first game even though it had poor scores, so when I found out DC2 was completely different I never even bothered trying it.

>>724762125
the first game is a bit of a mess compared to the second one but it's got janky soul while the second game is more polished and refined

>>724761748
I believe you can get fuel from throwing rocks but it's pretty rare.

>>724761601
The game has so many enjoyable gameplay mechanics that it actually ends up overwhelming most people

>>724762538
I just started already it’s telling me there’s three challenges per level in which to earn medals. One is to kill all enemies within 2:30 which doesn’t seem possible yet. The other is don’t heal which is easy enough. The last one is ??? So I’m not sure if I unlock that or have to figure it out…

The , I can already synthesize equipment from the getgo so I’m hoping I’m not fucking myself by augmenting rare materials or something.

I built insane endgame weapons pretty early on with the prima guide, then got wrapped up in playing the golf game for tickets and bought the cat lingerie for thr girl. I could never level the monster transformations up and the mech was unusable to me, so when I finally got to the endgame somehow I was unable to kill the final boss and gave up.

>>724764398
You can buy good materials in the next chapter so dont worry about it.

>>724761601
the game's quality can't be denied but the gameplay is very monotonous. I was ready for it to be over even before the last dungeon.

>>724764398
yeah, you unlock that ???. get ready to fucking rage

>>724758045
Absolutely loved the game but legitimately stopped dead in my tracks in the final dungeon right before the final boss because 1) I had already maxed out my characters weapons (the real drive for me to play the game) and 2) the villain being some gay rabbit completely drained me of any motivation to continue playing.

Still a great game. Definitely has a bit too much going on but is ultimately greater than the sun of its parts. Monica's Monster Transformations are trash and the Fish Tank bullshit are extraneous examples of the game not knowing when to dial things back. Yet it was mad enough to give us Spheda and I can forgive it.

Well shit I feel like I need to be one of the few people who beats the game and doesn’t get filtered

>missable photos
i cannot play your game

>>724765851
It's pretty rare for me to just drop a game dead in its tracks like that especially that close to the end. It was just knowing that I already got everything I wanted out of the game. Griffon being an incel simp really came across as a last minute ass pull.

>>724765559
>gay rabbit
His reason for being the villain is actually unironically because he's straight, also you didn't see him turn into the cool dude with sword wings

>>724766007
>Griffon being an incel simp really came across as a last minute ass pull.
Not really, it was probably supposed to be a recurring theme in the series, the Dark Genie seems to prefer possessing people that have lost their beloved

>>724765559
>final boss
>gay rabbit
you did not reach the final boss.

but speaking of Sirus, could that whole scenario be the most overused literary sequence of all time?
it's the same ending as Naruto and i'm sure there are lots of others that use it to.
>bad guy caused all the problems because he lost his oneitis.
>heroes discover this, beat his ass down
>badder guy shows up, former bad guy gives up his life to help stop things in an act of redemption and is ludicrously forgiven for helping cause all the problems
>baddest guy is waiting in the wings

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>>724758045
>had the game as a kid but never beat it
>last year decided I'll finally do it
>quickly reminded why I didn't beat it
I forced myself to beat it but man, everything in this game feels like it's working against you. Every single system is bogged down by two or three intricacies meant to slow down your progress to a crawl. Maybe I'm just not a dungeon crawler fan but I was having some fun up until chapter 3 where it feels the game really stops pretending to be anything other than grind incarnate. A game where grinding is a feature, not a balancing issue.
Sad thing is I really wanted to like it. Part of why the game has always stayed with me was because I really liked the photography and invention element.

>>724767138
Sirus was corrupted by the Dark Element, every bad choice he made was not his own

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I'm making a game somewhat inspired by dark cloud 2
anything you would have loved to include?

also, there was another inspired game previously that looked cute (not mine), albeit the developer have went MIA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUM7k2CqXMk

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>>724767592
>thirst mechanic

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>>724767430
Yes, but golf.

>>724767560
>Obito was led astray by Madara, every bad choice he made was tainted by his influence

>>724767592
>anything you would have loved to include?
Gameplay could be slightly more action-y than Dark Cloud 2's, but I say slightly because I feel like turning it into a straight up action game would just made it feel too different, what I truly would love to see is an even more involved town building system, Dark Cloud 2 was really on the right track but I feel it can be even better by adding some stuff like a job system just to make an example
>every time you go into a dungeon there's a chance the town gets attacked by monsters
>if you have no Guard NPCs you will lose some materials
>you can of course choose the jobs for the NPCs you have
>however you need to interact with the NPCs to see what they would like to do
>an old lady for example would absolutely be shit at being a guard, so even if you force her to be a guard she won't do shit
>some guy might mention in their dialogue that he hates violence, turning him into a guard will have the same effect of not doing shit
>but not only there are NPCs that are fine with being guards, there're also a couple of very specific NPCs that WISH to be guards, something that you would only know by speaking with them
>not only will they defend the town, they will also give you extra materials by looting the monsters they kill

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>>724767750
>randomly generated dungeons spawn random location for the portal and the ball and how many strokes are a allowed
>sometimes it's outright impossible short of a TAS due to the low number of strokes and how far away the portal is
>but also the portal and ball have to be different colors so even if you get the ball right in front of the portal you might need to bounce it off something first
>but also almost every dungeon map has holes on the side for the ball to drop
>but also it can get stuck in geometry outside the player's reach
>but also even the clubs can be leveled up
>but also you have to beat the entire level again to try again

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>>724758045

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>>724767592
it do be like that mr stancil

>>724762538
>Spheda
>Fishing
>Everything related to fishing
>Monster transformation
>Spheda in the sewers because it deserves its own circle of hell

>>724768208
>Dungeon medals
>Photo album
>Inventions
>Weapon building
>Town building
>NPC sidequests

>>724768013
>Gameplay could be slightly more action-y than Dark Cloud 2
I thought about it too, but there are too many dark souls clone nowadays. I get what you mean, there is a unique appeal to the slowness of dark cloud 2's gameplay. I will probably make it more action oriented in the sense of having more abilities (maybe a unique ability per weapon)

>town building system
This is probably the one thing I would scrap from the game, I never got the appeal of town building in DC2, It might work with additional systems, but the ROI in terms of "fun" doesn't seem worth it

I feel like fundamentally the reason why dark cloud 2 is stood out, is because of the weapon evolution system and the exploration and the overall aesthetics.
And the exploration was fun because it was tied to finding items and NPCs

they did not even bother to test Spheda, just stuck it in.
there are spots where the ball can wind up but it's not counted as out of bounds, you just can't reach it. so the ball is just there and you're fucked, better luck next time fuckface lol
fuck Spheda.

>>724768389
>This is probably the one thing I would scrap from the game
Alright I respect your opinion but unfortunately you've lost me, good luck with the game though, might still end up a dungeon crawler I can enjoy

>>724766269
It was weird how they tried to connect it to DC1 by having the genie be behind it all.

>>724768389
The hardest part of building a town is recruiting people to live there. Some of the conditions are bullshit.

>>724768389
If anything I'd argue the town building is one of the things that actually keeps people hooked on DC2. It's everything else that usually makes them drop it before they even finish it.

>>724768507
It was more or less supposed to be closer to a soft reboot more than an actual sequel, that's why the game is actually called Dark Chronicle outside of America

>>724768389
>scrap the game's most unique and defining feature
yikes.
the "fun" of the townbuilding was in the rules. it was fun to construct something you thought looked good and made sense, all while having to abide by the rules you needed to follow to get the areas to 100%.
branching upgrades were nothing new. plenty of games did it before DC2, that's not why it stood out.

>>724768627
not the guy, but playing with DC2 townbuilding is like playing with a 3d CAD application

there is no rewards to it, no meaning behind it, the town doesn't act as a towerbuilding game, it is literally the most boring part of the game

IMO, the only game with good townbuilding is suikoden 2, at least when NPCs get recruited, every single one of them come with a minigame, and is a playable character

>>724768970
>there is no rewards to it
>The game gives you various rewards for completing every town
>no meaning behind it
>The game literally lets you visit the future to see what you have accomplished

>never seen Monica's bare feet

>>724768970
>there is no rewards to it
you literally get health and defense upgrades from it tho
>no meaning behind it
the future got wrecked
>the town doesn't act as a towerbuilding game
you can make a buttload of stuff and put it down where ever you want
>it is literally the most boring part of the game
nah, the most boring part of the game is the slow trudge through dungeons until you get the ridepod up to speed.
>every single one of them come with a minigame
DC2 is overflowing with minigames already.
>playable
i guess, but then you run into the Chrono Cross problem where you've got this huge roster with not much difference between them. DC2 at least allows you to take them with you to dungeons and they provide unique sub abilities.

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I just want Dark Cloud 1's georama logic puzzle sections but as an entire game.

>>724767592
semen meter

>>724769014
that mechanic does not continue the input/output loop, it just feels like a story gimmick

at least with fishing you know that whenever you go fishing, a fish is the reward

why would you continue building the town after 100% quest completion when there is no reward? there is no reward for good design, no reward for building further than what is needed.

the average player simply completes the town building, as it was a WoW sidequest, and moves on

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>>724768970
>there is no rewards to it, no meaning behind it
It's needed both in plot and gameplay as you often need something from the future to bring to the past for progress. You also have the little chests which are the only way to improve your health and defense, the future areas are also where you can buy better weapons and items. The only thing you're right is that it doesn't really act like a living town, just a little diorama. You don't see people walking around or anything of the sort.

>>724764398
>early level
>??? objective
AHAHAHAHA
fucking nigger rat transformation. absolute garbage mechanic it is. takes way too long to build up monsters.

>>724769197
That is why the original post was talking about the possibility of improving it, it would probably require A LOT of work but imagine if you could put a small tree somewhere in town, go to the future and the three has grown enough to climb it and reach some treasure that was hidden

>>724769273
i literally got the first coin because you had to and never touched the transformation mechanic ever again, even once. never got another coin, never gained experience for the first transformation, nothing.

>>724769273
>>724769384
"Shiiiiit we forgot to give Monica a secondary gameplay mechanic"

>>724765851
I beat it ages ago. it just gets so deep in its own ass it becomes annoying.
from fish catching and raising.
the faggotry of spheda
monster formks being dog shit
pictures with missable entries.
it's just gets to be annoying.
dungeons are less horse shit than DC1 at least.

>>724769256
I understand the townbuilding, I've replayed dark cloud 2 dozen of times

It's just that the townbuilding itself is not strongly linked to any of the rewards

If you scrapped the townbuilding, and simply allowed the player to travel to the future, as he progresses through the story, is there really any difference to the experience?

That is to say, there isn't any cause/effect from townbuilding,
a gambling mini game directly affects player resources,
a fishing mini game directly affects player resources,
the weapon upgrade system directly affects player resources

If for example, the town directly contributed to the story progress, for example you can build tower like a tower defense game, and failing this part results in a game over, I think that it would be more meaningful

>>724768389
I feel like if you were to add something to combat, maybe more interactivity to the dungeons. It doesn't have to be huge, but one thing I liked about in 2 compared to 1 is picking stuff up, whether it was rocks or monsters. It allowed for a different way to approach fights. Besides that, maybe differentiate the weapons a bit more. It was nice that the different weapon types either had different combo strings or properties to an extent, it's just a shame that the highest attack cap weapons outshone everything else later.

>>724769442
I feel like most of those mechanics can stay, they just need to be improved or completely put to the side, not every single level in the game needs a Spheda challenge

>>724769441
it kinda sucks how Monica got the short end. Max gets to do everything.
only Max can take pictures. only Max can fish. only Max can play Spheda, when Monica is the one who taught him in the first place AND you literally see screenshots of her playing when you do the tutorial.
really makes her come off as the sidekick.

>>724769483
One way to improve the dungeons could be adding dungeon traps that both you and the monsters can trigger, maybe even the option to craft traps yourself

>>724767592
>thrist mechanic
>empty by the time your gay demo is over
Holy fucking NO!
You gonna need to double or triple that timer if you keep it anon. Jesus fuck no.
That aside
>DO NOT MAKE FLOORS LOCKED TO ONLY ONE CHARACTER! UNLESS YOU: 1. STATE SUCH EXPLICTLY PRIOR TO THE PLAYER GOING INTO IT! 2. Clearing the floor removes this limit. Permanently.
>DO. NOT. AT. ALL. MAKE. FLOORS. ROB. YOUR. EXP. FUCK. YOU. DARK CLOUD. NO
>No fucking Spheda shit unless you ensure it aint tubro aids
And just give me good town building

>>724767750
shittiest golf known to man.

>>724769526
Breeding material

>>724769483
>>724769575
Yeah I would probably add some form of trap/stealth system to the dungeons, and some level of platforming (i.e. the player can jump, but there is no gain in elevation, only allow the player the jump over pitfalls, similar to dark souls)
Overall just to bump up the threat level of dungeons beyond button mashing

>>724769526
I guess you could theoretically say the Georama is a Monica thing since she's the one who knows how the future should be, buy yeah they really did pretty much give Max all the cool stuff

>>724768389
>I'm going to make a dark cloud clone
>town building? FUCK YOU
Okay.
I'm keeping my money.

>>724769472
You can say the same for every other system. You build the town both out of necessity for the plot but also for the rewards. I think the rewards stop at like 80% competition or something but I'd imagine that's out of kindness for the player.

>>724758045
Never played this game. Is it fun?

>>724769886
Yeah but it takes a bit to really get into the fun stuff

>>724769886
What are your thoughts on grinding?

>>724769863
they don't. there are rewards for 100%. a game with one-chance missables is not that concerned about kindness.
the anon you're replying to is trying to make some bizarre points. he says there's no link/cause/effect when those things have already been explained to him.

I played through Dark Chronicle this year, and I have to say I much prefered Dark Cloud.
I don't like what they did to townbuilding.

>>724769982
Depends on how much to grind.

>>724762538
A lot of them are redundant but I didn't outright hate them for that.
I think the biggest stinkers for the game were the amount of missable elements like scoops (some of which you have to use for invention like some boss scoops, which as a stupid kid and probably a stupid adult I'd forget about doing) and the post-game where time-travel is disabled making all of that missable as well, on top of an entire dungeon getting deleted post-game as well. At least DC1 set you back to just before the final boss if you wanted to do Demon Shaft and you could even whoop the final boss' ass with chronicle 2.

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Playing Dark Cloud right now, is pretty fun
I wish there was more town building and it was more in depth
Also I wish the party members were actual characters who said and did things, not sure I've ever met a character more meaningless than Xiao (she's cute at least)
>>724768389
>I'm making a game somewhat inspired by dark cloud 2
>Town building is probably the one thing I would scrap from the game

>>724768474
I think the only memorable spheda moment I had was one where they spawned the ball right next to the portal at 99 hits. I think whatever logic it used just fucked itself that one time and I sometimes wonder if it could be recreated.

my autism stops me from ever properly playing this game unfortunately
>boring-ass missable photography
>missables HP ups
>speeda challenges
>once I start merely glancing at an upgrade guide I start min-maxing the optimal upgrade path and then all the fun goes away

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>>724770153
Bad news then. The game is built on the idea that grinding is the main hook. Every mechanic has grinding built into its DNA. There's ways to game the system but they are tedious. As an example.
>You can upgrade weapons
>this works by breaking down items and adding them to the weapon which will increase stats which, if certain stats are met, you can upgrade it to a higher form
>But every weapon has an SP bar for how many items you can add to it, this bar replenishes by leveling up the weapon by killing enemies
>You'll quickly learn that breaking down other weapons is the best way to upgrade since they'll add multiple stats rather than individual ones
>but to break down a weapon you need to level it up a couple of times first
>this means using that weapon to kill enemies
>but weaker weapons can end up doing a single point of damage or none at all to higher level enemies
>so you either go to an early area and grind or you kill a higher level enemy with the strong weapon then before the XP balls they drop fly towards you you go to the menu, change weapons, let the weapon absorb the XP, then go back to the menu to switch to the stronger weapon
>alternatively you kill the enemy with one character and before the XP balls drop you switch to the character holding the weapon you want to upgrade
>all this just to upgrade a weapon
I think you'll find out quickly why even people who seem to like this game will also mention how they never finished it.

>>724770279
The sequel's town building is a bit more in depth

>>724770113
I kinda get what you're saying, DC2's town building is missing that fillable storybook charm to the townbuilding but I also like the more in depth one of the sequel, I think I have the perfect solution to this problem
>Go into dungeon
>Find the Geosphere with the items
>You get a house that you need to fill with specific items and NPCs you still have to find
>Get everything you need
>Fill the "storybook" to complete the House
>You've now unlocked the option to build multiple Houses for less important NPCs
>You've also unlocked the option to build the other related items you've found if you wish to place them around the city
>But for these extra things you'll need to grind for materials in the dungeons

>>724768627
>>724769690
>>724769778
>>724770279

Help me understand why townbuilding is fun to you?
I think I've played Dark Cloud 2 to the end about 6 times,
Whenever I reach the townbuilding part, I just make a list of the materials I need, and hope I can build the parts within the first try,
Because the townbuilding I consider as filler to be skipped immediately

I've watched dozen of youtube videos of retrospective on the series, but most of the commentary leaves only a footnote on georama/townbuilding

What exactly do you find fun about it? Is this more of a dress up barbie doll/town sim kind of thing?
Like do you even walk about the town you have created once you are done with it?

>>724770470
only semi-related but I only figured out recently from reading a post how in FFT, people were getting story characters up to speed, since they join so late, compared to your generics

kill the generics and feed them to your story characters

>>724770534
>Is this more of a dress up barbie doll/town sim kind of thing?
No matter how you word it that's unironically one of the most enjoyable parts, "look at all the shit I've created, it looks cool right?" is a natural reaction of humanity as a whole, why do you think Minecraft is that popular?

>>724770470
>alternatively you kill the enemy with one character and before the XP balls drop you switch to the character holding the weapon you want to upgrade
This was a big thing, but especially when I was trying to do monster transform, fuck monster transform.
I beat it and the post-game twice (once as a kid, and again later when I revisited it) but I am very critical of some of its elements. I didn't miss that swapping even if seeing the abs skyrocket was neat.

>>724770508
Where as Dark Cloud had the town be a puzzle that you needed to make "right", Dark Chronicle made it more tedious by everything you build costing you.
So rather than making a fun town and exploring what would make it "right", I just did the most efficent way to get the rewards.

>>724770649
Maybe if the character swap was instant it wouldn't be a problem, a nuisance at best, but I'm of the opinion that if you have to find these little tricks just for the sake of complying with a certain mechanic than that mechanic is fucked.

>everyone complaining about missables

Guide

>everyone complaining about grind

Fast forward

We gud?

>>724770779
That's why I would probably do it that way, the game could give you the "main objective" with the puzzle town building and "side objectives" with the grinding town building

>>724770534
Playing it, my only real issue is that the space is too limited in some of the locations to actually have fun with it. I liked the volcano the most because you didn't get screwed by that and I made this pseudo-castle with a house on top for myself.

>>724770820
>is the game poorly designed?
>No, it's the players who are wrong

>>724770908
I mean, the only poor designed part that Anon said is missable stuff, the grind is part of the game's core

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opinions on rogue galaxy?

>>724770534
Didn't you have Legos growing up? Building is part of the fun. I certainly think there was more that could've been done, specially to make the towns feel more alive once you're done with them but in the same way you could spend 200 hours just fishing, some could spend 200 hours building their towns. That's one of the big appeals for the game. Arcraiser is one of the few other games I can think of that mixes this sort of town building with action gameplay.

>>724770534
>What exactly do you find fun about it?
Making something that looks good and coherent satisfies my autism
Some people play the Sims and are satisfied with their single room Chad Pyramid with the Painting Goblin Cave underneath it but personally I want everything I make to have my own mark on it
In a way it almost is like weapon evolution, every weapon, just like every town design, ends up as an experience I had a hand in, albeit a simplistic and straightforward one
>Like do you even walk about the town you have created once you are done with it?
Once I grab Osmond's gun from Moon Drops I teleport between the Moon Factory and Norune because Yellow Drops isn't a town I built

But again, it's not perfect as-is, I'd like more of it to play with
>NPCs that actually do things after their initial reward
>More control over the shops
>More control over the decorations (roads, trees)
>Other things that make the town alive, like schedules and events
>More of a connection between the towns and the dungeons ("I want you to build my house next to the dungeon but I would never ever ever go in there")
I also wish the Dragon Quest Builders games were a bit more detailed too so I might just be asking for too much

>>724770987
Too long. It was great but it overstayed its welcome towards the end.

>>724770987
More of a standard Action RPG, doesn't really have anything to do with DC but the game has a pretty cool atmosphere, you can really feel like this was supposed to be the first part of a big epic franchise like Final Fantasy or Dragon Quest

>>724770987
Would be a good game if it didn't have the worst dungeons in video game history. I don't know how, but traveling and fighting through hours and hours of randomly generated dungeons is infinitely more fun than fighting through dungeons of the same 2-3 rooms copy pasted over and over and over again even if it's practically the same in practice.

>>724770987
Visually pleasing but repetitive combat with braindead partymember AI

>>724771036
it feels dated imo compared to games like minecraft and factorio
I don't think if dark cloud 3 had townbuilding, people who choose to play dark cloud 3 BECAUSE of the townbuilding

it's like a remnant mechanic from an era where there were no town sim games

>>724770987
MASTERPIECE of a menu screen

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pd3Mx7xhHkw

>>724770949
Between this and .hack// I keep going back and forth on whether grinding is an inherently bad thing or some gameplay hook that doesn't click for me. I've always seen grinding as a balancing issue, with maybe the exception for very early jrpgs because there wasn't that much content. But DC2 isn't lacking in content so being designed like it doesn't want you to keep moving forward just makes me question its design.
I agree with the missable stuff though. Could've added maybe special encounters with former bosses or just a boss rush mode or something.

>>724771132
Might as well complain the fishing in DC2 isn't as in depth as Sega Bass Fishing. Yeah no shit the game dedicated to that mechanic will be more in depth.

>>724771132
I would say it's there less to fill in the gap between game genres and more because JRPGs in that gen were the types of games to throw in everything and the kitchen sink.

>>724770987
The gladious towers will end you. It's a 4-5 hour dungeon slog with no cutscenes or interesting design. Just tons of floors with empty hallways and endless random encounters.
There's no reason to actively engage with the battle system because party members gain full screen abilities that kill every enemy. The only time it doesn't work is when you need to use the barrier gun or throw rocks to break their shields.
For a PS2 game it looks and runs really well, you could almost mistake it for a early PS3 game.

>>724771192
It really depends on what kind of grinding we're talking about
>grinding for levels is inherently shit, bashing your head against the same enemy just because the Dev felt like upping suddenly multiplying the creature's damage and health by a ton is fucking horrible, mostly because all you're doing is increasing your stats so you'll be able to survive the enemies' attacks
>griding to improve your weapons actually gives you various different choices in what you want to craft, if you know how the system works you can even more easily become strong as fuck in early, but you NEED to know what you're doing

>>724771132
>it feels dated imo compared to games like minecraft and factorio
On top of what others have said, there's also a decade+ between them

>>724771132
>it feels dated imo
Because it was released 20 years ago in a genre that evolved multiple times in that timegap, of course it feels dated

>>724771363
Not just that, item/material grinds at least make you engage with the game to go get them in certain places or from certain monsters.
Stat/level grinds are a bore because you don't engage with it at all beyond the bare minimum.

>>724771132
>like minecraft and factorio
I'd say there's room for builders that aren't that specific, there's a vast difference between dropping an almost fully formed house in Norune and building a house brick by brick in Minecraft
It's casual by comparison but some people like that better and it flows better with the other elements of the game, even the Sims lets you drop premade lots because people just want to get to the other parts
I won't pretend that striking a good balance is easy, but the interest is there
>people who choose to play dark cloud 3 BECAUSE of the townbuilding
What other mechanic would bring people to DC3? That wasn't also expanded on and done better since?

>>724771192
I like grinding if the grinding gives me something new to practice with gameplay. A new mechanic maybe. When grinding is practice, I don't mind it. Otherwise it's just work and I hate working multiple jobs.

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>>724770987
Fucking hate the combat system, it's pure ass

>>724771363
The thing about the second option is that it's really a necessity for the first issue. It's part of what baffles me about DC2, the game is layered in mechanics that all feed into this grinding mindset. You grind one mechanic so that it feeds into the next layer of grinding which feeds into the next layer of grinding. On paper I like DC2's weapon upgrade trees but they are designed on the idea of grinding for them and you're bound to game the system like using a different character for the killing blow and then switching to the other one. Does anyone, even people who like grinding, do it legitimately or do they also use this trick?

>>724771792
The switching characters for ABS gimmick could be resolved if weapons were not synthesizable, so the player could focus on only one weapon the entire game
I hate the cheap tricks like weapon synthesis/name change ticket, it was too OP

>>724770853
Yeah, that sounds better, but I don't like the building to take resources.

>>724770820
I don't like guides and I don't play on emulators.

>>724771792
Every game has their tricks, nothing wrong in exploiting them, you're telling me you've never tried to make some enemies fall down a hole with their own attacks in any videogame ever?

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>>724771923
one of the most famous quotes in game development, heard throughout the world

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>>724758045
one of the most soulful ost in vidya, I'd have a hard time picking a favorite song. Nostalgia might give me more appreciation to this game than it really deserves
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWvVcF07DGA
Monica was my first vidya crush, she also had the same name has a 25 girl I was crushing on when I was 9

>>724771923
Depends on how much I enjoy the combat. Maybe that's the crux of the problem. If I'm finding some tricks to lessen my gameplay with it then I think there's some issue at hand. That's why I wonder if the people who really love this game also do this trick since if they also do it then how much do they really like the mechanic in the first place?
>>724771898
I don't think they had to go that far. Rather what I think really fucked with it is that weapons have to level up before being synthesizable. So you have to use them first, it's an inescapable aspect of making them useful to feed your main weapon.

>>724767138
I recall that it was the exact same "twist" in dark cloud 1, except that it was the dark genie this time (who is a secret boss in Dark Chronicle). Not very inspired thats for sure, I was generally more invested in the individual region than the whole plot

>>724769690
>golfing in the sewer or volcanic region
it was pain,I'm glad I had enough medals by then to get the bikini costume for Monica

>>724772070
Goes without saying but the ost and art direction really is top notch. Palm Brinks is cozy as shit. What is it with dungeon crawlers and god tier towns.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqRgc8VTN20

>>724769886
It is packed with subsystems, a bit too much I'd say, and the more you progress, the longer dungeons are, from the level size, to the number of them. Can lead to a grinding as another anon said, especially as you HAVE to level up both of the characters, otherwise you might get soft locked.
Subsystem includes
>Fishing
>fish race, using the fishes you caught, fed and bred with each other to get the perfect fish
>Golf that is a complete piece of shit mini game
>Photography, which has quite a few missable shot
>Invention, which is linked to photography, you combine photos to get the idea for the item, then you have to seek the materials
>Town building, quite comfy, mandatory to progress, surprised to see some anons not liking it. It requires fulfilling specific objectives and getting specific people into the town to get the 100% completion and get a good reward
>medals, completing a dungeons with specific challenges to get a currency to unlock costumes, good items ect
I might even forget a few other things lmao

>>724771242
BoF4 has a much better fishing and it's pretty deep in comparison.

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>>724758045
This "sequel" is trash and doesn't even compare to the original game. Even the story and atmosphere in Dark Cloud is far superior. Just for some perspective, in the first 30 minutes, you're treated to a cutscene where you watch a half naked woman jiggle her body to some good music as this group summon an evil genie. The genie revives, eats one of the main people involved and proceeds to destroy your entire town DBZ style (along with most of the world). He almost succeeds (including killing you), but the Fairy King steps in and saves everyone. You then learn of the Atlamillia and some other lore before proceeding into the dungeon with only a simple dagger at your side to begin your journey.

Compare that to Dark Chronicle...er..."Dark Cloud 2" (even the name is all over the place) as you customise Max with the little options you have. Then it switches to another character called Monica who you don't know anything about either and she's being chased by soldiers. You get put into a fight without knowing the controls which ends quickly, then you switch back to Max again where you learn he wants to...attend a circus. But wait! In one of the most boring introductions I've ever played, you first have to get your ticket back after it's stolen by a random ghost girl who magically disappears after you find her, then you can enter the fair. You now see some circus tricks which is maybe the only first amusing thing you see, then watch the second only interesting thing that happens with the mayor and the leader of the circus before it devolves into cartoony stuff with Max being chased by clowns and evading them in absurd ways. It ends with him, a little kid in front of a crowd beating them all to death with his wrench.

Do you see what I'm getting at now? The first game had so much soul that the sequel is like a joke in comparison. That's not even getting into the gameplay and how they dumbed so many things down or just filled it with all this gimmicky trash.

>>724773732
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctwZfJWrm3I
I don't know why of all the music I've heard over the years that the ceremony song stayed with me so clearly

>>724773732
I agree with almost everything you said but I think shit like thirst and perma weapons breaking are stupid. DC1 has 6 party member with two only be useful while the sequel condensed it down to 2 character each with two weapons and one special ability.
I never engaged with the side content because it's enough having to grind money and materials for the town building aspect.

It sounds like I'm just going to use cheats to skip most of the DC2 grind

Maybe it's just me, but I never felt like I really needed to grind at all for materials

>>724758045
>takes forever to let you start the building phase
>it's even worse than the first one
Is it really that hard to make am action-adventure town builder game?

>>724774128
There were maybe one or two times I needed but I don't think they were for progress, I was just improving the completion. Of all the things in this game designed around grinding, some of the building was oddly not one of them. Although to be fair I wasn't going that in-depth into it. It's not like I was really building my own little towns even after all the conditions were met.

>>724773732
i agree with everything you said
i remember when i first started dark cloud, that scene for some reason scared me so much. i was a kid and it felt so evil i quit the game and didn't get back to it for months lol

>>724758413
>the invention system is cool, but the photograph system for it requires a lot of wandering and taking pictures of everything, then managing that clusterfuck of an album, plus a lot of inventing is just guesswork
>a bunch of photos are missable
>the robot system is cool, but clunky and limiting
>Monica's transformation system is cool in theory, but hilariously shit and ass
>loaded with gimmicks and minigames
>half the villains are bad, the other half are so bad they're good
>I literally don't remember the plot at all
Growing up, a friend was a lot more into the second game than I was, and I think I borrowed it from him a few times and beat it once?
I don't know. I tried replaying again recently, but I always lose interest right after the first town.
Hot take, but I liked the first game more despite the second game being objectively "better" and more fleshed out. Something about the game just clicks better for me.

>Q. What's the reward for collecting medals, anyway?
>A. You can trade them with Mayor Need for various clothing items and Name-
Change Tickets. That's it, though.

wow it's fucking nothing!

>Q. Why are Monster Transformations so weak?
>A. No idea. They were probably a last-minute addition that they didn't bother to work the kinks out of.

So I'm cool to avoid monster shit

I was addicted to the premise of crafting a past and then being able to go into the future and adjust events to play out. Don't know any other game with that mechanic

>>724775316
Yeah basically. I don't think I did monster transformation stuff my first playthrough. They do give stuff like gems and such that upgrade weapons but the effort is just not worth it.

In a better world it would control more smoothly or actually have real combos to do with the monsters. Talking with monsters is neat side content though. I think if the game didn't revolve around killing stuff it could've been used as a stealth mechanic of some kind.

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ummm how old is this girl again? this game looks problematic

>>724775560
Enough to bare children from a different era

>>724775560
Truly a more innocent time.

>>724775560
-85

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>too many dungeons
>dungeons too long
>recruiting people is annoying, have to just run around for ages till you find them
>constantly in a state of 'where the fuck do i go now'
>less soul
>no catgirl to play as
Prefer 1 desu

Any mod/hack for unfucking DC1?

>>724773732
I agree with everything I skimmed. The main appeal of the sequel is that it smoothed out some of DC1's rough edges as far as gameplay.

>>724760345
From the very beginning you had character locked floors

>>724776116
There's an Enhanced Mod apparently, looks kinda cool
I would've given it a go but I was already too deep into my playthrough and I'm probably not gonna do another

>>724758045
this fcking game always reminds me of my bitch ex gf from 2003, gifted it to her and I cannot even try to play cause it brings painful memories

>>724777252
She probably played through the intro and then dropped it like I did

>>724776895
Well it's better than nothing but it doesn't seem to adress the weapon durability problem in a meaningful way.

>>724777457
If you're emulating I think there are pnach files you can use to have infinite weapon durability
Or you can edit your money to buy repair powder and solemnly swear not to use the money for anything else

>>724773732
The circus bit is kino. I laughed out loud at parts.

>>724773732
>hand rubbing
>wanting more money
>evil cult worshiping false gods
Oy vey. Shut it down.

>>724776042
Based silverstein

>>724770987
way too grindy like all level 5 games if you want to 100% complete it
the enemies with unbreakable shields are annoying af
looks beautiful on Dolphin though

>>724779909
>on Dolphin
It's a PS2 exclusive lmao.

Any tips?

Ignore monster transforms

Just augment every to your favorite weapon?

>>724780018
Look up evolution trees. Your favorite weapon won't gonna cut it no matter how much you invest into it.

>>724780018
There are a few things of note to correctly
approach the weapon system:

Don't rush to evolve your weapons, lower tiers get levels more easily and the synth points carry over as you evolve, so you can get more levels early to make it easier for the later forms

Don't synth crystals/materials directly into your main weapon, instead you want to level other weapons to +5, synth items into those, and turn them into synth spheres. This is a much more efficient way to empower your stuff

A very basic way to do this is to buy a Battle Wrench for Max, get it a few levels, evolve to the True Battle Wrench and get it to +5, then boost it and make it a synth sphere. This makes an easy +10 to all your weapon's stats for just 5 points

Synthing weapons like this can also be used to transfer weapon passives like poison, steal, exp up, gilda up, etc. Just remember they always need to +5 before synth, and if you go beyond +5 it will cost more points

played the first game until the dungeon 3 boss. the one where you have to plant something to reach him. couldnt beat him bcs the game expects you to grind the shit out of your stuff all fo a sudden. ditched