>>724816471
Pathfinder is based on dnd 3rd edition where morality isn't just some wishy washy made up thing but an actual fundamental aspect of the nature of reality. Like, an evil person literally has more units of evil energy inside their body that can be measured.
Setting your alignment isn't just "what's your guys personality", it's more like "how many gigasatans of evil" or "how many gigajesus of holy power" are flowing around in your veins.

And then your body can slowly change its power distributions over time based on your choices

>>724817001
huh thanks for the explanation anon

>>724816471
Just pick true neutral then retard

>chaotic neutral
There you go, the normies alignment where you can do anything you want and make any choice. A true centrists alignment.

>>724816471
you play as a preprogrammed homunculus so starting with an alignment programmed into you by your creator makes some sense

>>724817001
so it's like choosing between being a black person or a white person?

>>724816471
Because your character is a dude with a story at that point in the game already.
A fully formed adult that has had a life and made plenty of choices.

>>724818134
Are you lying to him intentionally?

>>724818183
I mean hes right, your character is a full adult and you can roleplay him any way you want. But it is a character that has already lived for a long time and should have a morale alignment of some kind.

>>724818298
Then why does your dude start with zero skills?
What was this cunt doing his whole life that give him alignment but zero life skills?
Well I guess that actually makes sense in WOTR since you're a test tube baby but I mean generally well except that you do pick your alignment in WOTR so you're a test tube baby with alignment

>>724818298
In all but two races, your character is a lab rat that was raised in a lab

>>724817541
>>724817421
It's not that simple in Pathfinder because your alignement locks you out of a bunch of classes. Like you just straight up aren't allowed to be a monk or paladin if your mystical alignment to the multiverse planes of Law isn't strong enough. And they won't give you your diploma for graduating from Barbarian school if you aren't Chaotic enough.

>>724818413
Isnt level 1 pretty much every normal random peasant. In fact I think they might even be weaker than level 1. So its not exactly zero life skills just a very average person. But you can also start with 18 in a stat if you want to and that is almost superhuman especially at level 1.

Man it must suck to be a peasant in DnD

>>724817421
Order+Evil
>Its actually just good but hurts my feelings t. writer
Neutral evil
>Eats babies
Chaotic evil
>Swears and then eats babies

I just want to play a lich that eats babies with a fork and knife instead of using his hands.

>Make Alignment an important class decision
>Sell cheap scrolls that let you change your alignment
Whats the fucking point. Either get rid of the alignment restrictions or stop selling the scrolls.

>>724818619
Lawful Evil is sometimes used as just government the author doesn't like but it's also pretty commonly used for the refined and elegant sociopaths like Vampire lords and mind flayers.

>>724818580
Well probably makes more sense in pen and paper. Its a bit awkward in WOTR where stray dogs have an AC in the mid thirties and a BAB in the low 20s.

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>>724818413
Level 1 is a normal person.

Always remember that DnD is basically an abstraction of real life, 10 ability score is quite literally the average human, having, say, 8 intelligence means you have profound mental retardation.

A lvl 8 character is basically low grade comic superhero territory, lvl 20 is already the treshold to demigod territory, and in Wrath of the Righteous you reach it thanks to Mythic levels.

>>724818580
Peasant NPCs are lower than level 1. They have no class chosen, no combat stats. Basically they haven't even hit the character creation screen

>>724817421
This is my first thought(insult included) when I've read the OP.

>>724819157
A level 1 wizard can already shoot tracking bullets from his fingers that never miss a hundred feet and are strong enough to kill an average person. A level 1 barbarian can take multiple arrows and bullets and not even slow down. You're already at comic book super hero tier at level 1

>>724818730
Are there any other systems of alignment in other settings?
It'd be nice to get a more pragmatic/idealistic vs selfish/altruistic. Which seems more what these writers are trying to reach for.

>>724818619
>Order+Evil
Acting only in your own interests even if they are sociopathic but caring about the rules and laws(and trying to bend them for your advantage).
>Neutral evil
Acting only in your own interests even if they are sociopathic, will obey the rules and laws if they are not in his way.
>Chaotic evil
Acting only in your own interests even if they are sociopathic and actively trying break laws and rules just for fun.

>>724818619
Why do liches have to be evil. What if you only use evil souls in your rituals to become a lich, then you can be a nice hero lich.

>>724819787
If you're talking about entirely different game systems yeah, like Mass Effect has the Renegade vs Paragon and the Star Wars games have Light Side vs Dark Side.

DnD is pretty much always Law/Chaos and Good/Evil because it's part of the core brand identity.

>>724819973
Because the thing that keeps the lich alive(unalive) is pure evil, literally. So any lich will always turn evil after some time.

>>724816471
Then pick true neutral and see where the game takes you

>>724818440
You can shift your alignment in this game. And also, it makes perfect sense that you can't pick monk/paladin, seeing as that implies that your is/was a member of a codified religious order.

>>724819973
Two reasons.
One, the magical ritual to become a lich is pretty specific and requires you to specifically do a bunch of horrifically evil vile acts in order to complete the ritual. Like, if you try to come up with some clever trick to make it not evil the ritual will just fail because it wasn't evil enough. There's no trick around this unless you have some mega cheat like Gods directly intervening to help you which is sort of what happens in WotR
The second issue is that, again, alignment isn't just your morality, it's literally a form of measurable energy that objectively exists, and Liches are 100% fueled by nothing but absolutely pure evil energy from the evil energy dimension of evil. If you have something 100% made out of and powered by nothing but magical evil power it's going to be evil.

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>>724819973
I dont know but I looked up types of liches on the forgotten realms wiki and it seems like there might be some good type of lich.

>>724818440
>no diploma for graduating from Barbarian school if you aren't chaotic enough

>First day of Barbarian class
>You were the only one to bring a pencil and notebook and diligently write down the 5 methods of focusing your rage to greater cleave someone and something that pissed you off
>Others just kicked desks, took a shit on the floor, two Half-Orcs roasted a Gnome over the fire because their stomach grumbled, and some Halfling seemed to only poof and and out of reality when he was putting deafening whoopie cushions down, laughing his ass off.
>You are informed that you in fact, fail. Ten points from Rip N Tear. You lose sir, good day. Tuition forfeited.
>Angrily break the lute of some bard out in the hall as you're leaving and make a rude gesture at some pixie princess just because. Suddenly the professor shouts
>WELL DONE MR ANON. Come back in. But you're on thin ice!

>>724819973
My reasoning behind going Lich to Legend was basically this. Lawful Neutral, willing to do what was necessary including practicing dark arts but not overdoing it. The final ritual required to be a Lich is the definition of overdoing it

>>724820575
>Archliches did not create phylacteries as did normal liches, and instead used practical magic items that could serve as more than just a repository for their souls, typically taking the form of a small spellbook. If this item was destroyed, so too was the archlich.[4]

>The first step in achieving archlichdom was to create the item that would house their soul. It then required them to brew a special potion, which had to be augmented with the spells animate dead, chill touch, contingency, pass without trace, permanency, teleport, trap the soul, and wraithform.[4]

>The prospective archlich then had to drink the potion while holding the created item—which was to be at least partially covered in the spellcaster's blood—while a secret spell was cast. This rite carried a small chance (less than one-in-ten) of possibly killing the prospective archlich and ruining the process. Otherwise, it put the drinker into a deathlike slumber for four to sixteen minutes. If the sleeper survived, they would wake up as an archlich. At that point, only divine intervention could reverse the transformation.[4]

What kind of pussy lich ritual is this. I feel like this is too easy and with not many downsides.

>>724820575
>>724819973
I think it has to do with how undeath is, usually in AD&D/Pathfinder etc... realms, ontological evil. You're either enslaving people, or fucking with the normal processes of nature, life and death. Not saying I agree but I think that's the justification.

I think the idea of some neutral or even good wizard who sacrifices their humanity to live for a long time to master their magic, to right a wrong, or otherwise non-evil reasons to be a lich seems like a good concept but I imagine its probably pretty hard to balance if there are only minor downsides or its not that hard to do etc. As I recall in one of the Pathfinder games becoming a Lich literally requires sacrificing someone you loved/cared for on the level of a family or romantic partner, not just an innocent which is bad enough but someone you personally had some connection with, so I'm sure thats how it works there

>>724820575
Well that's just bullshit.
Why would anyone become a normal lich when they can become this?
Looks like someone decided to make a good "Lich" and didn't really think this through.

>>724820720
The Lich path in WotR is also super cucked. The whole time you have to kowtow to the senior lich guy and then he does all the actual prep for you. And you have to trust this extremely evil manipulative guy. Total bullshit. I wish it was more like how the Swarm path goes where you figure it out yourself

Liches are actively evil or, at best, apathetic. If you want a morally ambiguous undead, vampire would be a better choice but they didn't give us that option

>>724821176
>>724820575
forgotten realms is the setting where literally every retarded idea anyone has ever had in the last several decades is dumped. There's tons of stupid shit like that.
The fact that every retarded thing is in there is useful for running DnD because you can justify literally anything but it's a shit setting when it comes to consistency or flavor or having any kind of logical rules for how the world works.

>>724820720
>Lawful Neutral, willing to do what was necessary including practicing dark arts but not overdoing it
Then why not choose any other mythic path. Kinda don't see a logic behind it, you either want to be undead and have an army of undead or not.
>final ritual required to be a Lich is the definition of overdoing it
>On my Lich path I have TO BECOME LE LICH? OH NO NO, THIS IS NOT HAPENING, I REJECT MY MYTHIC POWERS.
Dunno looks to me like a pussy/retarded move.

>>724820945
Isn't that just phylactery but in the form of your choice?

Pathfinder thread dying on 40 posts? This is just sad.

>>724818440
Thats a good thing though.
Paladins are supposed to be an exception to the norm, not simply a knight with holy powers, they are champions of order. A paladin doing something evil or sowing chaos is a contradiction of their identity.
To do it any other way simply makes Paladins less interesting.
I miss when RPGs had concrete definitions of stuff like this because it enhances the experience of roleplaying that class. To play a Paladin is a responsibility that you as a player might not be able to live up to, and you should be duly penalized for your lack of conviction

>>724817001
Why don't people scan for who has the evil magic bits at birth and throw those babies off a cliff? Or is it impossible to measure?

>>724823701
killing orc babies is smiled upon in most paladin circles

>>724823805
Makes sense, orc are all brutish savages and the less there are the better.

>>724823701
Because he's retarded and wrong, unless you're going to pretend that Daeran is on the same level as Wenduag just because they have the same alignment

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>>724816471
5e and is consequences have been a disaster for RPGs

>>724816471
Is this game accessible for those that haven’t played any CRPGs aside from DA:O? I don’t know anything about D&D but I bought this for a couple bucks off a key site

>>724824137
if you put it on normal mode, yeah, Owlcat are horrible at encounter design so there's still going to be some really fucking annoying stuff here and there, make sure to switch to turn based for the tough fights

>>724824137
If you play on normal difficulty and are willing to read all the tutorials look into the glossary for terms you dont understand you should be fine.
With that said if dragon age was a 3 out of 10 in terms of the complexity of the game system then this game would be like 8/10

>>724823701
In traditilnal tabletop, a Paladin smiting evil would not be concerned in the slightest and do wnat was necessary. It would be like pulling weeds. If your baby is a demon, they would smite it.
There is no such thing as a politically correct Paladin.

>>724824671
What if your baby isn't a demon and just has an evil alignment

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>>724823885
What is that non sequitur? Wenduag may be at the lower edge and Daeran is just off the neutral ring, but both are definitely neutral evil

>>724819157
>8 intelligence means you have profound mental retardation.
that is not true, that would be more like 6 intelligence

>>724823885
Wenduag can flip to neutral after you do sufficient somersaults to justify letting her live long enough.

>>724825078
No her alignment doesn't flip, but those somersaults sure as hell should flip yours if you're good.

>>724824137
Play BG3 instead

>>724824750
smite evil only works on evil
if it works, it was justified

>>724826230
so if you have a normal baby but it has an evil alignment its ok to kill it?
if so why not just detect the alignment of every baby at birth and kill them if they are evil, you could get rid of 90% of crime that way
you could even have a routine where every citizen's alignment is checked every year, if anyone ever turns evil they are executed.

You guys are all retarded. Evil people don't even detect as evil unless they actively receive divine power from an Evil God until they hit level 5.

>>724826372
if he's normal he wont have an evil alignment in the first place retard

>>724826372
>90% of crime
Thieves aren't evil.

>>724826629
why not? if im a psycopathic serial killer id still be chaotic evil even if im just a normal human. if not, then the alignment system has essentially lost all purpose.

>>724826708
I watched Dexter too zoomie, he's not normal. Evil is a form of mental illness.

>>724826789
ok so then do what i said and kill all the evil babies at birth. and check alignment every year and kill everyone who is evil.

>>724826873
Babies tend not to be born at level 5 or higher.

>>724816471
I liked. Kinda long doe.
Maybe i will play rogue trader

>>724826919
is there really no other way to detect alignment? what about spells like protection from evil? surely those work before level 5? just use that spell or others like itand see if it works on the baby/citizen and you can deduce their alignment

>>724827135
Great, now your AC against the baby is 16 instead of 14. I'm sure that's going to matter in hand to hand combat with the baby.
Or maybe you're trying to prevent the baby from exerting mental control over you?

>>724827264
the point is if the spell is effective we have effectively determined that the baby is evil, meaning it is justified to kill it.
if that doesn't work, we could have scholars develop a magical quiz that determines alignment with 95% accuracy, and then kill every citizen who does not pass the test.

>>724826556
If you have to mention game mechanics at all like a metagaming faggot you don't deserve an opinion.

>>724827374
hurf durf evil people don't detect as evil until they're sufficiently powerful enough
Happy, dickhead?

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>>724827135
Whatever retard started assuming that babies have alignment is a fucking idiot who has no clue how the alignment system works.
PCs and DMPCs all having fancy alignment choices is like how you can look at a classroom shot and pick out the anime MCs by their hair. Basically all the random peasants and NPCs are just neutral, unless the GM is retarded and thinks of alignment like (You) do. Having an alignment takes repeated and long-term dedication to a certain set of behaviors. In case you've forgotten, the average goycattle doesn't have any opinion of their own whatsoever and just goes along with what the herd does; that's neutral.
Even if someone's not neutral, they're still not going to ping on any detection spells under a certain level.

>>724827352
Your premise is retarded and flawed from the start. That's not how it works.
>b-but, what if it's an orc or dhampir or drow baby
Then just fucking kill it, retard. You don't need a fucking test for that, they're born that way

>>724822448
You can help by expanding

>>724827996
>they're born that way
They literally are not though, not in Pathfinder

>>724828078
>2e
Lol

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>defending the tavern

>>724828178
Idk about 2e, but if you kill the tavern keeper in Kenabres just because he's a dhampir then yeah, that's evil

>>724827996
so alignment isn't determined at birth unless you are one of the writer determined evil/good races? seems a bit inconsistent but ok. thats the charitable reading of your post, your kinda implying that alingment doesn't exist/doesn't matter if the character isn't important to teh plot, which is kinda immersion killing if you think about it.
it also doesn't change my second option which was a society killing any evil citizens regardless of age, by your own admittance alignment is determined by behavior so it should be easy to detect in adults using any of the methods i described.

>>724828294
it's a lot more manageable if you switch to turn based combat for that. Doing it real time is fucked up

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>>724828078
I don't know what the fuck that pozzed pf2e shit says, but it sounds like shit from there. I'm pretty damn sure those races are just evil in the original slightly less kiked edition.
That's why it's okay for my old paladin character to use captured goblins to trigger and clear traps in a dungeon.

>>724828432
This is a 1e game and Irabeth's father was a good guy orc, and dhampirs are not forced to be evil

>>724827996
Dhampir aren't aligned creatures the same way that Drow and Orcs are.

>>724819973
Baelnorns exists. There are good skeleboys and good undead. There are good undead wizards. Liches are exclusively the EVIL undead wizards

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eU-IqbTvKjE

>>724828358
I think you're not understanding how this works.
Fundamentally, the vast VAST majority of people pretty much just do not have any magical alignment particles in their body in their entire life. They live their normal life and never do anything crazy. They usually follow the law but sometimes break minor laws. They're generally decent. The needle never moves, they never draw the attention of the cosmos. They're just normies.
Somebody has to be slightly insane or otherwise extremely weird to be so extreme in their life choices that they move out of neutral, OR they would have to have special bloodline.

Also, I think you're missing the part that your own choice and actions will shift your attunement over time, but sometimes it works the other way. If for some reason a person is artificially stuffed full of a bunch of negative energy, their mind can be forcefully modified to match the new alignment. Your personality shifts your alignment but the alignment can also shift your personality. This only really happens in really extreme cases of a mismatch, though. Like when somebody becomes an undead usually they instantly become super mega evil even if they were good before it happened, for most forms of undead.

>>724828585
There is exactly one instance of a non-evil non-ghost undead in the entirity of Pathfinder 1E.

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>>724828493
>he's actually talking about WOTR
Fuck what that also-pozzed shit says. I've been talking about tabletop because that retard brought up using detect-evil on babies (which you obviously never do in WOTR and nothing of the sort comes up)

>>724828505
Now that I think about it, I guess they are a PC race option. I must have misremembered.
Still, if you come across a dhampir baby it's probably best to deal with it right then.
Nits make lice. Questions of morality are for the philosopher, to cut the gordian knot and smite evil as a definitive entity is a cathartic departure from the grey of reality and is the entire point.

>>724828878
Blame pharasma

>>724824909
>that is not true, that would be more like 6 intelligence
3 Int is like wild animals dude, I think 4 is particularly smart animals that can use combat maneuvers like trip iirc

>>724828989
>/tg/fag
>Gygaxfag
>Complains about people talking about WotR, in the WotR thread
Sorry grognard, Pathfinder has always been like this

so which is the good pathfinder vidya? kingmaker?

Why is there a starfinder collab with warframe?

>>724829131
WotR is good. The mythic path gimmick is fun.
Just keep in mind during character creation that most of the enemies in the entire game will be demons who have magic resistance and are immune to poison and a bunch of elemental damage and plan your character accordingly

>>724828989
>he's actually talking about WOTR
look at the OP

>>724828989
>Questions of morality are for the philosopher, to cut the gordian knot and smite evil as a definitive entity is a cathartic departure from the grey of reality and is the entire point.
That's cool and all but in my opinion you haven't lived until you've channeled positive energy while worshipping an evil god, or even been given holy divine powers as a Lawful Good Paladin from Asmodeus him(her)self.

>>724828853
Then shouldn't you start out the game as a Neutral then? Also the implication is that alignment is more about action than mental state. So if I'm a pedophile serial killer but never act on my impulses I'm still neutral. This is what I meant by "normal" earlier. I figure you can still do evil things without being noticed by an evil cosmological force.
I know this is just a hypothetical thought experiment for a heroic fantasy dungeon crawler system, but I still think its useful to explore these things. Since D&D has an adventurer bias, and other fantasy settings take inspiration from D&D, they end up having similar issues.

>>724828989
>Still, if you come across a dhampir baby it's probably best to deal with it right then.
good job, you lost your paladin powers

>>724829368
You generally start the game as an established character within the world, with a backstory of things that have already happened to make you thee person that you are, who has the potential to become a 20th level character, and not a mere child peasant NPC.

>>724828361
turn based tavern defense takes like 3 hours thoughbeit

>>724829465
I thought this was one of the things grognards complained about in 5e

Just put some grease on the ground.

>>724829532
Maybe AD&D grognards who just want to wargame and dungeon crawl all game.

>human
>male
>mutation warrior
>greatsword
>demon - legend
I beat the game on core without any multiclassing and zero prebuffing until the abyss levels (fuck that place)
I even managed to solo a substantial amount of act 1 because MW is just fucking built different

>>724829129
>complains about people talking about WOTR
I did no such thing. I simply stated my disdain for what is clearly sanitized faggotry for the lowest common denominator. Critical role and normalfags were a mistake. They added a fucking girlboss lesbo orc and her "girl"boss tranny character for no reason other than to add them. It's fucking clownish. They made every romance option a whore because that's just their modus operandi.
They definitely did a bunch of other shit too, but it's been a while and it doesn't come to mind at the moment.

>pathfinder has always been like this
Pathfinder is however our foreverGM and us players fucking decide it is.
Fuck owlcat and fuck Paizo.

>>724829306
Look at the reply chain and see I was talking to some retard talking about ttrpg mechanics he didn't understand.
I don't think WOTR even has detect-evil. It was all just automatic based on whether you made knowledge checks.

>>724829461
Joke's on you, that paladin character of mine had already lost them due to dying and some artifact fuckery during revival.
Completely ruined the fucking build I was going for, but at least the vindictive bastard archetype for fallen paladins has a real good smite replacement that works on anyone.

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>>724816471
Unrelated but is this game actually any good? I swear I've started it like 5 times but just can't get into it, I genuinely cannot make myself give a shit about the stupid ass wardstone plot or whatever. I know it probably gets better or something but that intro sucks dicks.

I normally go for Cloth Clerics so maybe that has something to do with it.

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>>724829814
Based and canon

>>724829847
btw you still haven't answered the proposition of a society killing every evil citizen. although there are ways around it, you have to admit that the whole level 5 thing sounds like a huge cop out because they realized killing evil babies is a kinda bad look

I sure love it when you're in a lore discussion with someone and you realize all of their arguments come from an arbitrary collection of what aspects they consider canon or non-canon

>>724830158
There is no such thing as evil babies you blathering retard.

>>724823701
They actually did that, the very first area of the game is an underground village full of descendants of old crusaders who mutated from too much evil magic exposure and are full of evil magic bits.

>>724830331
what about newborns from Always Chaotic Evil races?

>>724830331
how about a half-orc baby? would they be half evil?
also, assuming you are the same person, its strange how you went from "evil is mental illness" to "evil is formed through action unless you're an evil race" like talk about a flip flop

>>724830331
In D&D/Pathfinder there are.

>>724830436
>mutated from too much evil magic exposure and are full of evil magic bits
No, they got cursed by a demon

>>724830438
>>724830478
I thought you wanted to purge all the evil babies from a society? Why are you talking about societies comprised entirely of evil creatures?

>>724829131
They are both good and bad in their own ways.
If you are going to try one try Kingmaker as it is feature and QoL poor compared to Wrath. Going from Wrath to Kingmaker may be disappointing.

>>724830592
>Why are you talking about societies comprised entirely of evil creatures?
who said that? also can you answer the question please?

>>724830158
>you still haven't answered the-
Your premise is fucking retarded, that's why. The average person is a level 1 peasant. Even if you wanted to go around targetting all the evil people above level 5, there's also magic to block detection spells and any evil person worth a shit worried about paladins poking around is going to have it.
>https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/rings/ring-of-mind-shielding/

>>724830703
>can you just please respond to my loaded questions based on my retarded subhuman premises that have no understanding of the setting the way I want you to?
How about you go fuck yourself? Dumb nigger.

>>724830331
>>724830592
There are species that are naturally inherently aligned to certain alignments and there are also exceptions to every one of those rules because Chaos exists. So there should be babies of every alignment type

>>724830713
so you're saying NONE of the methods I listed work before level 5? if im fighting a level 2 chaotic evil goblin and use protection from evil, it won't work?

>>724819157
>Level 1 is a normal person.
Not really, a character having PC levels is supposed to mean they are someone special.
Normal people only have NPC class level if anything.

>>724830887
A BABY IS GOING TO HAVE A FUCKING NEGATIVE 7 TO THEIR ATTACK ROLL AS WELL AS ON HIT DEALING NEGATIVE AMOUNTS OF DAMAGE
YOU AREN'T GOING TO BE ABLE TO DETERMINE WHICH BABIES ARE EVIL FROM FIGHTING THEM TO THE DEATH

>>724830917
Which is a level.

>>724830765
this is definitely the kind of post you make when you're not mad

>>724831102
this is definitely the kind of post you make when you're not asking retarded loaded questions

>>724831203
the retarded loaded question of "what is the alignment of a baby half-orc?"

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>>724830887
>>724831102

>>724831234
It's neutral because only full orcs are an Evil race. What retarded question do you want answered next?

>>724831289
why? is the non-orc half so powerful in its neutrality that it erases the cosmological evil taint from the baby?

>>724831370
It's not Evil because half-orcs aren't an Evil race. Orcs are.

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>>724831289
>only full orcs are an Evil race
Are they though

>>724831442
but why? half-orcs are literally half orc and result from the union between orc and man. its not just a name.

>>724831456
I don't consider feelings revisionism a relevant counterpoint.

>>724831512
Because they're literally different races. I don't know what else to tell you.

>>724831524
>>724830308

>>724831524
Revisionism? That's 1E

>>724831591
Alignment literally doesn't exist any more in Pathfinder canon, so what exactly is your point in this thread about alignment?

>>724831743
this is a pathfinder thread, we're not talking about whatever retarded trad version of D&D that exists in your head

>>724831842
>he doesn't know that 2E remaster removed alignment
Embarrassing.

>>724829131
They're both good. WOTR has better QoL and really really leans in to the power fantasy aspect. Kingmaker is much smaller in scale managing a kingdom in crisis instead of a crusade at war, and a more traditional adventure where you never really grow out of underdog status unlike Wrath where you have the biggest dick in any given room by act 3. Kingmaker is fine on its own but mods really improve the experience, Call of the Wild and toybox iirc

>>724816471
>muh power fantasy
Fuck you! Power fantasy is cool and youre a bitch

>>724829131
I enjoyed KM much more. The power scaling in WotR is dragonball-tier. 3 hours into the game you become half-angel, half giganigga only quad babaus can stop you.

>>724832050
There's nothing wrong with Wrath being a power fantasy, I love snapping my fingers and breaking the kneecaps of everyone on the field while simultaneously striking them blind and deaf, but some people prefer the smaller scale stuff. You're fighting owlbears in Kingmaker at around the same time you're slaughtering armies of demons on a whim in Wrath

>>724832438
>I enjoyed KM much more. The power scaling in WotR is dragonball-tier
As if you are not clubbing a Fey deity by the end of Kingmaker anyway.

>>724831587
They're not, 50% of their bodies is composed of orc. The actual answer is that orcs are simply not forced to be evil. Meanwhile half-fiends are mostly evil, because one of their parents is a literal abyssal/hellish creature

>>724832503
Im also ok with both

>>724832765
150 hours into the game by turning his own curses against him (3 other eldest help you do it). In WotR you shittalk Pharasma.

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Why did he do it?

>>724819646
>never miss
>in pathfinder

lol lmao

>>724833304
Tieflings, while being half-fiend, are not born Evil, and Aasimar, whilee being half-celestial, are not born Good.
Tieflings are also not literally Devils/Daemons/Demons/Qlippoths, and Aasimar are also not literally Angels/Archons/Azatas, etc. They are their own races.

>>724833551
Magic Missile dumbass.

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>>724833486
There's something enticing about demonic/hellish pussy

>>724833486
it's him, john kingmaker

>>724820575
>>724820945

This is the gayest shit.

>>724822283

Yah its its a little different...

>There was more than one way to become a lich,[42] and to some extent the process was unique to the individual,[12] but as a rule all methods were secret and dangerous rites than involved the costly and complex crafting of a phylactery[1][4][12] and the brewing and drinking of a toxic mixture made with the blood of an innocent,[1][5] known as a lichnee potion.[43] Acquiring the knowledge of one of these rituals often required making deals with dark gods or fiends—notably Orcus—who demanded service or fealty in exchange for the secrets.[1][2] A full ritual was also said to have been detailed in a rare tome known as The Eleven Baneful Gates.[44] Only a living individual could successfully complete the transformation into a lich.[27]

>Even once the process of transformation was completed, a lich had to continue to enact special conjurations and enchantments to sustain their undead form,[6] such as by casting Nulathoe's ninemen on their phylactery once every 777 days[10] and by continuing to feed their phylactery with souls via the imprisonment spell. Failure to do so would cause them to slowly fall apart.[1] Some liches were also known to consume larvae to aid with the maintenance of their undead form.[10] Without great care, a lich's magic would slowly fail over time, and it would generally lose both its sanity and its body after around 900 years of lichdom. Only very careful preservation or a transformation into a demilich might avert this fate.[10]

Keep in mind that the exact ritual is going to depend on how sadistic the DM was but even then a "classic" lich had to do heinous shit to keep going. New lich is some hugbox shit. Like im reading the entry for it right now and I see zero downsides to doing this aside from a 'slight' chance of the ritual failing and you just die.

i genuinely did not like any of the companions in wotr

>>724833620
Tieflings are not half-fiends, you can be born as a tiefling simply because your great grandfather was too close to a demon and he got bathed in demonic energy tainting his bloodline (the same is true for aasimars and good outsiders)
Cambions, for example, are half-fiends born of an incubus and a mother that gave birth in the Abyss, those are half-fiends

>>724831743
to be fair as with d&d you'll have people who will just ignore anything from the new edition, and since both games are based on 1e it leads to schizo threads

>>724833620
>Tieflings, while being half-fiend, are not born Evil
but then what are the crusader LARPers to do??

man every time i get the urge to play the pathfinder games I'm reminded that its wokeslop
also the one time I tried to power through kingmaker the actual "kingmaker" crap killed my interest hard.

>>724833894
Just install wokeless wrath then

>>724833785
>Simultaneously more and less than mortal, tieflings are the offspring of humans and fiends
>Pathfinder RPG Bestiary pg. 264, Advanced Race Guide pg. 168

>>724833483
Because mommy wanted "muh baby" back from Pharasma and made you into a homunculus. My point was that they both escalate into retarded deity slap fights, and these slap fights are integral to the plot. Might as well acclimate into it from the start, instead of it being revealed to be a thousand-year-old prank in the making. If your actual argument for why you loved KM more is that it doesn't fall off the cliff, then I remind you that every event in the game is orchestrated by Fey Hitler, competitively genociding kingdoms and pity farming.

>>724833967
The tiefling companion in this game had human parents

>>724834030
>Most tieflings never know their fiendish sire
>No two tieflings look alike; the fiendish blood running through their veins manifests inconsistently, granting them an array of fiendish traits.
> Typically, these qualities hearken back in some way to the manner of fiend that spawned the tiefling's bloodline
>Tieflings face a significant amount of prejudice from most other races, who view them as fiend-spawn
>Despite their fiendish heritage and the insidious influence of prejudice, tieflings can be of any alignment.
>Those who succumb to the evil within often become powerful clerics of fiendish powers.
>It should be noted that while any monster or animal that breeds with a fiend may give birth to half-fiend offspring, only humanoids may give birth to tieflings. Thus, while it’s possible to encounter a half-fiend dragon, bear, or otyugh, any children of such creatures would be either half-fiends or normal members of their race. (And just as often, these less conventional half-fiends are simply sterile.) When discussing half-fiends and tieflings, it’s important to distinguish them from both true fiends (devils, demons, etc.) and simple fiendish creatures (creatures with the fiendish template, which are themselves denizens of the evil Outer Planes but similar in many ways to their Material Plane counterparts).

Should you need any more information on these HALF-FIENDS, there is more in the sourcebook called BLOOD OF FIENDS.

>>724818440
You pick your class before your alignment, and it's completely irrelevant unless you're a minmaxing autist trying to break Unfair

>>724834186
Tieflings can be several generations removed from the actual demon/mortal pairing, they're not all half-fiend

>>724834186
>When discussing half-fiends and tieflings, it’s important to distinguish them from both

>>724834603
Your sentence cut off there bro.
>from both true fiends and simple fiendish creatures
You're welcome.

>>724816471
You can go from chaotic evil to chaotic good in pretty much the first act if you pick your options consistently.

Tieflings are mortals (native outsiders technically, but for all intent and purposes mortals) they can be anything they want, even if they're predisposed towards evil because of their blood
Half-fiends are actual outsiders that are always (or well, 99% of the time) evil

>>724816471
because you're not a homunculus just formed at the gates of mendev
oh wait...

>>724834818
All Tieflings are half-fiends but not all half-fiends are Tieflings. I hope this helps.

>>724834875
>All Tieflings are half-fiends
Why isn't Kalikke LE and Woljif CE then?

>>724834818
>Though the power of their blood calls nearly every tiefling to fury, destruction, and wrath, even the spawn of a succubus can become a saint and the grandchild of a pit fiend an unsuspecting hero.
>grandchild
no they're not

>>724835005
Because they're not Fiends.

>>724833894
pathfinder was actually designed as a fairly grimdark setting originally ironically enough
unlike many games where the charge gets thrown around you're right paizo has at warp speed tried to wokify the setting, female leader after female leader, slavery being virtually erased from the setting even from notnazi germany and further portrayal verboten, colonies suddenly all declaring independence (except the ones on literally empty ruins or regulated trading ports) - the taldor one in xianxia is especially retarded, they declare independence only to be super close with taldor after because ???, etc.

>>724835005
Devils, daemons and demons are all fiends, that's their blanket terminology in pathfinder.

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People calling Pathfinder a ‘European medieval’ fantasy and complain about woke stuff will never cease to be amusing.
Don't get me wrong, Pathfinder is woke, especially E2, but Owlcat did literally everything to smooth things over and pathfinder diverse in literally everything, not just race. I find it difficult to complain about racial diversity in a kingdom sandwiched between savage mammoth hunters and sci-fi faggots with guns and mechs
I'm glad they switched to Warhammer, it obviously suits them way more

Ragathiel is literally the son of Dispater and is a Lawful-Good Empyreal Lord.
I think it's safe to say that if you try hard enough you can be whatever the fuck you want in Pathfinder, Alignment be damned.

>>724835110
Right, according to you they're half-fiends, but those are forced to be evil so again, why is Kalikke's alignment the polar opposite of what a Devil is supposed to be, and why is Woljif CN?

>>724830973
It has been skewed by the nature of Dungeonpunk settings but PC levels and NPC levels are different.
NPC have low powered regular joe classes that 99% of the population are.
It's been a while but I think they were called Warrior, Expert, Adept, and some others I think.

Peasants and rank and file soldiers are these while those fated for bigger things would have PC levels.
Even most priests aren't necessarily Clerics, just the touched ones.

>>724835993
>but those are forced to be evil
>>724835007

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>>724816471
fpbp for the history books

>>724836310
I knew I was going to get this reply. Yeah they can change, so can actual evil fiends like demons, still doesn't change the fact that the majority of them are evil, and I'm not going to autistically say
>ummm well MOST of them are evil :)
Just to not offend half-fiends feelings.

>>724836403
>the majority of them are evil
>I'm not going to autistically say ummm well MOST of them are evil

>>724833770
I would agree that KM cast is stronger but WotR is alright.
Daeran is a standout, Lann is fun in his own autistic way, and Camellia is compelling enough to string you along even if you know the twist.

>>724836403
Most tieflings are neutral
>Many of them fall prey to the dark desires
that haunt their psyches, and give in to the seduction of the whispering evil within, yet others steadfastly reject their origins and actively fight against evil lures and the negative assumptions they face from others by performing acts of good. Most, however, strive to simply find their own way in the world, though they tend to adopt a very amoral, neutral view when they do

>>724828361
it's horrible either way. TB takes eternity and feels like shit, RT either requires pausing every millisecond or turning down difficulty so it's a cutscene

>>724833770
Only seelah is a bummer, also lann is a bro

>>724836486
Funny. Anyway, they're not the same. Half-fiends are the direct offspring of a fiend, tieflings a descendants of a fiend, courtesy of that fiend tainting their bloodline be it direct or indirectly. It's also why tieflings have an easier time not giving in to evil.

>>724836753
Obviously they're not the same. All Tieflings are half-fiends but not all half-fiends are Tieflings.

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>>724816471
I have no idea how Pathfinder/3.5 ed worked because Wizards of the Coast nerfed a lot of the restrictions. But in old school TSR at least, alignment like Law and Chaos were actual cosmic forces. You couldn't be a Paladin class unless you were Lawful. Or a Druid unless you were Neutral. And there were magic items you couldn't wield unless you were a certain alignment. And items that would curse you if you were the wrong alignment.

>>724836512
>compelling enough to string you along
No, not really, you just want to fuck her

>>724836873
Copy pasting huh, sure I can do it too. Half-fiends are the direct offspring of a fiend, tieflings a descendants of a fiend, courtesy of that fiend tainting their bloodline be it direct or indirectly.

>>724816471
>pick demon
>at every pivotal moment you just get really mad and scream in their face

very anime and cool

>>724836963
If your grandfather was black, you're still half-black regardless of the fact that you're only a quarter black.

>>724835649
Lots of wacky stuff

>>724836963
Actually I typed it out again. Here's some copy pasting for you though.
>It should be noted that while any monster or animal that breeds with a fiend may give birth to half-fiend offspring, only humanoids may give birth to tieflings.

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>>724837027

>>724837027
I'm sure many people irl wish they could skip their tainted mixed genes like tiefling can do here, but sadly that's not how it works

>>724837098
What does that have to do with tieflings being born as descendants?

>>724837027
It's not the same, if you're lucky maybe you'll never even see a tiefling in your family, it's a 50/50 chance. Like how Woljif's mother was a regular human even though his grandmother got impregnated by Baphomet's son, but then he got unlucky and came out as a tiefling.

YOU call them Tieflings because that's the correct terminology.
I call them half-fiends because I'm racist.
We are not the same.

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I want to play this again soon. Somebody rate the mythic classes from best to worst for me.

Last time I played was right around launch, did a Lich Cavalier build to LARP as the Skeleton Knight from Berserk, so probably wouldn't play lich again. It was a bit cucked story wise but I liked replacing my gay companions with undead husks.

>>724838434
Aeon>Angel>Demon>Lich>Azata>Trickster>late game paths

>>724838548
that's it? I thought they finally fleshed out golden dragon and all of that shit. Are those only available super late game like Legend or whatever?

>>724838835
yes

>>724838938
Damn, that kind of sucks. Disappointing.

>>724823701
Babies are born true neutral.

>>724838434
Angel if you're good, demon if you're evil, legend if you play demon and want to redeem yourself, the rest are basically filler

>>724839020
>legend if you play demon and want to redeem yourself
So you can roll into it later and do a redemption arc? Interesting

>>724838434
Angel/Trickster are the strongest, followed by Aeon, Lich, Demon, Azata.
Swarm is in its own league, totally busted.

Legend/Gold Dragon aren't that interesting.

>>724839294
>swarm busted but not gold dragon
>aeon third

>>724839346
Angel stuns the entire screen and trickster vaporize the entire screen. What can beat that?

>>724839740
all of them can do that

>>724839062
personally i thought late game demon kind of sucks and the game fully supports a redemption >>724829907

>>724839740
have you seen the buffs gold dragon got?

>>724833646
Their pajeeta voices really killed any inkling I had to romance them.

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>>724841167

>>724816471
IS THERE AN AREELU ROMANCE MOD YET

>take the corrupter mythic ability
>cast stinking cloud on two smilodon
>they both fail the save
>nothing happens
Are they immune somehow? Corrupter doesn't say it only works on certain enemies.

>>724817001
how does lawful and chaotic fit into all of this?
Im a Chaotic or Neutral good guy who tries his best to be good and help others even if you break an agreement or break some laws don't have more gigajesus of goodness in me than a lawful good person?

>>724833770
This but Kingmaker.

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best mom did nothing wrong

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Canon KC is
>Aasimar
>Female
>Bard
>Chaotic Good
>Azata
>Romance Arue
>Ascension ending
>Impregnated with twins

>>724838434
They're all broken. Even with no synergies you'll faceroll after a certain point. Though the strongest are Angels for divine casters and Liches for arcane casters since they stack your spell level, and then Azata specifically for Magic Deceiver to triple chain lightning disintegrates

>>724847843
Shifter has antisynergy with a bunch, if not most, mythic paths.

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This guy walks up to you and slaps your romance's ass. How do you respond?

>>724843035
Because they forgot to prep “detect good and evil” I guess.

>>724829126
Animals in pathfinder have 2 int

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>>724848553
Not funny
@
Didn't happen

>>724816471
because your character isn't a day 1 baby
why the fuck wouldn't it have a moral personality developed already?

>>724836874
3.5 just removed race restrictions like paladin being limited to human.
Alignment restrictions like lawful for monk are still there, which pf carried over.

>>724823701
cool it with the antisemitism

>>724819973
because aligment is how you function in the grand design of the gods, that takes priority over how you treat other mortals, so it doesn't matter if you are only using the souls of baby eating cow rapists orcs, the top dog of the gods its a stuck up bitch that gets really fucking asspained about anything that diverts souls from her crafted paths, so you're mega evil

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>>724816471
Unless you're playing a Paladin, a Non-Drunken Fist Monk, or a Barbarian, or want to Prestige into an Assassin, alignment doesn't matter THAT much.
There are a few different lines where someone mentions your alignment, some gear, and some feats that take it into account, but it's really not that significant.
Choose True Neutral and build your alignment from there, based on your choices.

>>724816471
Baby's first experience with dnd?
You make aligmnet choices in game you dumb nigger. What you pick at the start is just the baseline.

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>>724820216
Drunken Master can be a Chaotic Monk.
I guess doesn't make sense to be Lawful if your powers come from getting smashed.

>>724834014
>deity slap fights
Even with LK is so far up his ass with the whole prank, how he ignored all the precautions, it still took 3 creatures of the same order helping you to give you a chance to defeat him, AND YOU DON'T EVEN FIGHT LK HIMSELF. You fight his avatar. You are delusional that those scenarios are anywhere close. Pharasma could and did wipe the floor with an Elder.

>>724816471
Is is worth picking up for the story alone? My only experience with crpgs is about an hour of pillars of eternity before my gamepass ran out

>>724818662
Shitters complained nonstop when Kimgmaker released that they couldn't keep their lawful good alignment as a paladin so owlcat caved in and added those scrolls. They literally went
>What do you mean I have to do lawful things as a lawful character?! This is an outrage!!

>>724849746
Systems are too complex for someone new to CRPGs.
Story is fine but you will get overhelmed by choices, feats, math and stuff like that. I suggest playing other CRPG's first.

To this day I still havent progressed past the tutorial because I still dont know what to make

>>724849889
He could play journo mode. Whether it is worth it to pick up only for the story - eh, maybe. I've enjoyed all the mythic interactions.

>>724849746
the story is pretty mediocre

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>>724818662
>>724849879
However, in the tabletop game, if your Paladin goes astray (something that's up to the DM), you can redeem yourself by asking your DM what can be done to correct your alignment back to Lawful Good, usually a personal quest or task, or even meditation or something religious like fasting or self-flagellation.
But this, of course, isn't easy to do in a video game. So much so that BG3 gives you the Oathbreaker NPC who corrects your Paladin oath with money.

>>724829907
Is demon to living legend path as cool as it sounds?
Or is it at least the best way to give Areelu the biggest middle finger possible?

>>724819157
An 8 is probably like India tier IQ. Dumb but not mental retardation.

And NPCs have no real stats. They are normgroids. A level 1 player character is somebody on the path to being something greater.

>>724850137
It is. The path you came from Legend actually has some dialog differences and how some NPC's see you.
Demon to Legend has people commenting how you conquered your inner darkess or something the like. Areelu is pissed at you anyway, there isn't much difference on that, but Nocticula is extra pissed at you too. It's funny.

>>724824909
Animals have Int 2 and need Int 3 for some Team-Work feats.
So I guess you're right.

Alright fuck it
Dual wield ranger or hag riven with claws?

>>724850098
I like 5e Oaths for Paladin better than the alignment requirement.
You're way more flexible with what you can and can't do.

>>724816471
actually this kinda killed it for me. I was enjoying playing demon as lawful evil but then futher in
>nooo you have to be chaotic nooo
and at that point not doing so would have just wasted all the time so... blah

>>724850382
Ranger.
They actually don't suck in this game, even if Favored Enemy split demons into 3 categories, it's still awesome!

>>724850446
You could've become a Devil if you went Aeon or Azata.
They're Lawful Evil.

>>724850427
Which is gay and retarded and undermines actually having an oath if it barely matters

>>724820603
very good post

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Human
Man
Old
Wizard
Lich
Romance arue only to sacrifice her for my bone daddy

>>724850505
which only just got more than a half assed amount of content a few months ago

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>>724827996
>they were just...
read demon thief to be enlightened
also
>doesn't have any opinion of their own whatsoever and just goes along with what the herd does; that's neutral
thats actually whatever alignment the herd has as a collection
so if its a herd of goblins then they are evil

>>724829814
>no prebuffing
what? you're playing pathfinder prebuffing until you have 20 rows of buffs and then flying at the speed of light and instagibbing everything with a sword is literally half the fun and reason to play pathfinder in the first place.

>>724819973
>Why do liches have to be evil.
It is within Pathfinder lore that Liches use Negative Energy that will actively corrupt the user and there's no winning against it.

>>724850427
>swear a very specific pledge to the point it literally binds with your soul
>called an OATH
>its actually very flexible
wotc are so braindead fucking retarded 5e is exactly what id expect a room full of monkeys, retards and indians to come up with.

>>724820575
wow that's faggy

>>724823701
The nature of good prevents it

>>724817628
Yes.

>>724816471
>fantasy blacks
will never play, kek

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>>724820575
Hahaha, fuck off WOTC.

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>>724820575
Remember that to maintain Lichness, you need to feed on souls, and when you eat a soul, it doesn't go to the afterlife, it simply ceases to exist.
So, even if you are a "good Lich" and feed exclusively on, say, criminals, you are depriving the soul of a proper judgment by Kelemvor (or Pharasma in Pathfinder), who knows more about someone's morality than you ever will. You may have eaten the soul of a criminal who would have been destined to go to Heaven because being a criminal was secondary to their life, for example.
So, yes, your very existence is profane, because you need to perform profane acts to maintain your existence.
So..."Good Liches" shouldn't exist. If you just want undead immortality, vampirism is a better way.

>>724823701
This may come as a surprise but Dungeons and Dragons is mostly about exploring dungeons and fighting Dragons so you’re not really supposed to think about it too much

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>>724816471

>>724843035
Lawful vs Chaotic is a count of how autistic you are vs how BPD you are.

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>>724817001

Why are there no lawful evil paladins, that of course follow an evil god? Or at least an equivalent class, if you dont want to be lazy and just invert paladins skills

>>724857135
>Why are there no lawful evil paladins
Hellknights some of whom worship and cohort with devils
>just invert paladins skills
Those are antipaladins who are Chaotic Evil.

>>724857135
They exist but they're not called Paladins. Sometimes they're called Antipaladins and Blackguards. They have Smite Good.
The closest you can get in WOTR is the Hellknight class, and they have Smite Chaos.

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>>724857280
I hadn't heard of Hellknights before playing WotR, and I'm very glad to have found out.

>>724857135
in the tabletop that exists but not in the game

>>724850137
>Or is it at least the best way to give Areelu the biggest middle finger possible?
That's basically what legend is, regardless of which mythic path you pick first. Although Areelu does prefer demon, so that strings even more. For extra spite fulfill every secret ending condition and romance Arueshalae

Imagine if owkeks didnt force another annoying Homm at home minigame, would reduce amount of loadscreens by 70% and maybe make game enjoyable

>>724857135
https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/alternate-classes/antipaladin/archetypes/paizo-antipaladin-archetypes/tyrant-antipaladin-archetype/

>>724849573
>You fight his avatar
No? You fight the real thing and kill him

>>724849879
To be fair, without it the game's alignment circle incentivizes your paladin to just never do anything of consequence ever, because saving kittens too many times in a row risks ruining your lawful alignment.

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>>724858926
I don't have to imagine, it's happening soon

>>724816471
Just another reason BG3 is superior

So as someone that bounced off of this game after storming that castle, would you recommend:
A) Try again with different character.
B) Keep going from where you left.
C) Just get the rogue trader game

(My build was pretty shit but i had a raptor that raped appropiately)

>>724823701
>detect evil
>smite
That is exactly how I played paladins before social norms made it wrong to hurt ghosts demons parasites jews and other evil creatures. For some reason it's still okay to go rouge and do chaotic stupid shit though.

>>724861314
Depends on why you bounced. If you like the setting just drop difficulty until you can get to the respec guy and make a better build. Or just drop diff permanently, who the fuck cares. If it's a skill issue and you don't address it you'll also bounce off Rogue trader.

>>724861314
I really enjoyed RT

>>724841249
>no standards
wow, a simp, how profound

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>>724862338

>>724818440
That's not your class locking you out, you moron, it's your chosen deity

>>724861131
>faghammer
not interested

>>724861314
Try again from the start unless you're autistically attached to the build of your first playthrough. The game features so many classes you'll never see, it's nice to get to play another one and most are viable anyway up to core difficulty.
Personally, I think the game feels much more immersive if you start from the beginning instead of trying to get back into an abandoned save. You just finished the tutorial, anyway, so you're not losing much. If you can't get past the early game again, PF just ins't for you.

Play RT afterwards anyway, it's a very different setting and has a completely different ruleset. You'll still have to enjoy crpgs and, to a lesser degree, build-autism.

>>724862681
Ok PFtroon

>>724862681
Isn't it ironic to use these kind of insults when you like pathfinder

>>724836594
Use slow mode, I think its pressing V by default

>>724829849
I too would get bored in a RPG if my build sucked dick
>cloth cleric
Play a waves mystery, flames curse oracle and get freezing spells revelation. Focus on enchanting first and evocation later on. Also get point blank + precise shot.
Do your usual CC + buffbot + demoralize duties at low levels
At some point multiclass to crossblooded sorcerer for elemental (cold) and white dragon bloodlines, learn snowball as your sorcerer spell (no spell resistance) to fill dead turns or true strike to use with quicken rods.
Get both Coldbite shield and Hide Armor of Elemental Carnage(+2 damage per die rolled for frost spells, +3 with your bloodline)

Your single target damage will suck but all your damaging spells apply staggered for a couple rounds and your AoE isn't too shabby.
The divine spell list has a few amazing enchanting spells, command isn't too shabby at low levels and greater command will win encounters.

>>724829849
Play a fighter or paladin as god intended

>>724849298
>There are a few different lines where someone mentions your alignment
Which ones? I literally can't remember any