>Civ swapping isn't going anywhere >But we are making it optional what went so tragically wrong?
>>724925159vgh, civilization has fallen, ve must retrvn to bvg
kek isn't this that game where Harriett Tubman can be Empress of Japan?
>Stealing the worst feature of their competitor's worst gameWhat the fuck were they thinking?I will now take this opportunity to say that Humankind was actually pretty decent as a 4X, I liked it more than Civ 6
>>724925159I blame Humankind.
The damage is doneDidn't get 6Will never get 7
>>724925375i hope you aren't about to say you play 5
>Make game that isn't Civ>People don't play it>WHAT HAPPENED?
>>724925403I played 1-5
>>724925159Ok now fix the UI and make leaders tied to their civs again and MAYBE I'll consider buying it on sale
>>724925403FFH2 > 4 > 3 > 5
>>724925159been awhile since we got one of these gpt slopped apology letters
>>724925159>what went so tragically wrong?Being SO fucking racist that being egyptians wasn't POC enough for them. You had to force them to be bugandans.>>724925210Yes, AND where England is DLC, and a bunch of civs switch to random african shit for no apparent reason.
>>724925403Differentanon. I tried 5, went back to 4. And SMAC.
It's wild how civ has a "break glass in case bankruptcy" button right there, and the time has never been hotter to press it, but they choose to struggle instead
>>724925224Didn't they make Endless Legend 2 since then?How's that been?
>still playing babby mode turn based 4x's
I will never understand why they went with consistent leader and changing civ instead of consistent civ and changing leader.
>>724925224More features too like cliffs and kind of the new city tile system are just things from Amplititude games. It's very strange to see Civ ape a much smaller studio for ideas and then play it off in interviews as if they're taking 4x in a bold new direction (copying 10 year old games).
>>724925860But enough about Aurora 4X.
>>724925737I heard it's solid, but I haven't had the time to play much of it yet. It's exactly what I asked for, which is EL with less autistic unit customization and a repeat of HK's combat, so I doubt it's anything worse than what I've heard.I wish they'd remove their new awful dialogue snippets and go back to the old quest narratives, Amplitude's writers can't write dialogue or people for shit
I can vaguely see where the idea came from. The Ruler (You) gets driven out so the Ruler (You) takes over a different civ. Implementing a "Civilization Swap" could've had the intention of forcing the player to maintain a general gamewide status quo between civs since you never know if you'll be driven out and now you're in charge of a fucking backwater retard civ using spearmen in the age of airplanes & artillery.
Those pathetic fucks. Fuck them. I said for the last year exactly what is going to happen, down to the fact that their cadre of faggot "influencers" were going to all get sacrificed in order to do damage control on their sinking fucking ship. Good riddance to PotatoMcFaggot and others who aren't even worth naming, but they chose to stay on the sinking ship. Good fucking riddance. If those fags listened to me, then maybe they could have gtfo and found something else to make a living off of/a side-hustle out of. Who's worse than content creators are all the retards who argued with me on Reddit. Additionally, every company that doesn't have message boards and instead uses reddit should all fucking kill themselves, forcing me to shit all over people on reddit is a scum move. Anyway, redditors are retarded faggots, and i overwhelmed many of them with my knowledge that the game was going to fucking suck because of all the dumb decisions Firaxis/2k was making, and I was right, but of course I was. Anyone with a brain could have seen this was coming. They should be fucking murdered. I would weep tears of joy if they all fucking died.
>>724926329Holy based
>>724926329I kneel, based hater
>add leader for the STRONGEST RACE>didn't even make the STRONGEST RACE playableWHAT WERE THEY THINKING?
>the feature that everyone hates isnt going anywhereWhy the fuck not?
>>724926329Based. Upvoter. Agree 100%
>>724926329Holy fuck Sid Myers is that you?!
>>724926469They're still too prideful to admit total defeat because that would mean "The chuds" Aka the people who've been playing Civ for years and years would have been right about it being a bad idea from the outset.
>>724926019because that could have been interesting and maybe even coolbut no we can't have that, the entire point of the game is to shit on everyone who liked the previous games!
>>724926019Because they're fucking idiots, dude. These are people who looked at an accomplished series of games and thought that they knew better. 2k loved the idea because it immediately signifies they could potentially sell 3 times the amount of DLC, some for each era. On paper, to someone who's only looking at things on paper, someone who likely has no idea of what's good gameplay-wise, it is a fiscally good idea. And maybe they could get away with one or two "fiscally good ideas" implemented, but the whole game is a series of bad gameplay and those fiscally good ideas, which caused it an absolute abortion and an insult to Civ as a whole. However, Firaxis/2k has been inching this direction for years, with 5 and 6's DLC being nearly as overpriced and underwhelming (but not quite) as 7's, it's just those iffy DLCs were attached to largely okay games, even on release.
To be fair. If you're a content creator who just plays civ, you can pivot back to 6, 5, 4, or even move to a new 4X game, but best not rock the boat too much (youtube audiences are highly autistic). The issue that they should have saw coming was Civ 7 needs to last for the next 7-8 years with dlc and they've got a huge issue at the core. This is probably the worst thing they could have announced. Rather than stick to their guns and design philosophy, they have to awkwardly cater for both. Maybe they should just forget 7 happened and rush for an 8?
>>724926329I feel that man. Reddit forces people to be neoliberal populists more focused on cultural marxism than making a good fucking game. It's a shame that Sid is still alive to see this absolute travesty. All they had to do was take all of the ideas from the civ fanatics modders (or hire me) and they'd have had a good fucking game and a stellar company.Alas, the nature of corporations these days is to purposely make a shitty project, claim the expenses as a loss, then cross their fingers and hope that a bigger company buys them so they can all fuck off. I wish that programming and software engineering was more accessible, and I hope that AI gets to the point of allowing anybody to program their own game, because this shit has to fucking end, and /v/ frankly needs to make a good game (VNs are not games).
>>724925224hmnknd is shit tho
>>724925159>Admits Defeat>
>>724926538how could 1000s of indian programmers who've never played a civ game before be wrong?
>>724926329>PotatoMcFaggotDidn't he make a 1.5 hour video of all the things he didn't like in Civ7 or are we just hating him because he's popular?
>>724926329Tater fucking hates 7 and hasn't touched it in months.
Maybe bring back the incredibly short lived Civ Online designs, that might help
>>724925224They just can't help themselves
>>724927518This is what Firaxis does when they're trying to cater to Asians, btw.
>>724925403The only right answer is to be a Civ4chan enjoyerhttps://www.moddb.com/games/civilization-iv/downloads/civ4chan
>>724925249I blame Civ 5
>>724926998With a feather touch, alongside a video about all the things he did like.>>724927389Regardless, it tanked his 'career', and I can't help but think he'd have me as a viewer if he told his audience to not buy the game, directly. However, he was wined and dined and wanted to become a bigger channel, so he largely simped for Civ7 and lost any semblance of credibility he might have scrounged for himself. He sucked Firaxis/2k's dick, and it would have probably worked out fine if Civ7 wasn't pure hubris from people who have actually no idea how to develop a Civ game. So, if he, like most of us, saw the writing on the wall but didn't say anything publicly, like he did, he gets no respect for me. Glad he has lost all relevance.
>>724927576This sort of influence is the only good thing Koreans have ever done.
>>724927684>X-Tan>Zalgobetter times
>>724925159still not buying it
>>724925159Baba Yetu, a Swahili version of the Lord's Prayer, is the first grammy to win a video game music. Therefore, Civ 4 is the only Civilization game worth playing since they are all the same anyways except for the theme.
>>724928265>since they are all the same anyways except for the theme.Civ 5, 6, 7 are nothing like the old civ games
I've noticed a bizarre trend where people are somehow unable to comprehend simple facts that:>Civilization series ended with V.>GTA series ended with IV.>Monster Hunter series ended with GU.>Pokemon series ended with Gen V.>etc.
>>724928387ya they're better
>>724925224>>724927564its funny isn't it?
>>724925159Why the fuck would they put forced civilization switching into a Civ game? That's absurd on four or five different levels. What is their stated reasoning?
>>724927576SEX WITH ETHNIC WOMENAAAAAA
>>724926329Soren are you gonna make any more DLC for Old World?
>>724928495lmao is this real?When will they realize that globohomo is a turnoff?
>>724926329High testosterone post.
>>724925159>>724925224why don't you faggots play a game that's made by and FOR people who give a shit about the genre?
Yeah, a big company like that can't openly go back on such a major game design choice, even though its clear that literally no one likes it. The only way for them to give people what they want now is to put on that air of 'haha maybe some people would be interested in this WHACKY silly alternate mode, like for laughs haha'
>>724928734they're french, what the fuck do you think
>>724928734yes, its real, cover made so it can sell in polandpoles often get specific local covers for physical games
>>724928768old world is decent but i found it boring
>>724927564embarassing post
>>724928475>>Civilization series ended with V.IV was better>>GTA series ended with IV.SA was better>>Monster Hunter series ended with GU.FU was better>>Pokemon series ended with Gen V.Gen 4 was be-- okay, no it wasn't.
>>724925159I liked the civilization revolution free game with Xbox live
>>724928475>>Civilization series ended with V.'IV>>GTA series ended with IV.SA
>>724928479Said no one ever
>>724926649Good analysis. It's really the financial decisions from the executives, who don't play games, that ended up harming Civ VII. And now they have no sales. Not to mention the cut corners in the game's shitty UI.
>>724927576they need to bring these designs to civ 8
>>724925159Can the devs unfuck this game? Payday 3 devs gave up after nobody played their game and the playbase never came back >>724926019That would have been an incredible idea having leaders change with the age.
>>724927564First thing I noticed. Made me snort a laugh.
>>724930615>Payday 3 devs gave up after nobody played their game and the playbase never came back Redpill me.
>>724932330they did the same thing they did after fucking up Raid WW2 and then TWD, go back to Payday 2 lmao
>>724927576Probably would have bought Civ7 despite how shit it seems if it had female characters like these instead of Tubbman.Thank God Firaxis didn't want my money.
>>724925159What the fuck is civ swapping?
>>724934065Remember how the subtile of the Civilization games, all the way back to Civ 1 was "Build an Empire to stand the test of time".Then the devs saw Humankind and decided to copy making you pick one civ for the first third of the game, and then switch to a different Civ for the mid- and endgame.People did not like that.
>>724929593>>724930331>Civ IV better than V with Vox Populi>SA better than IVIt's a serious discussion and you're having a laugh.
>>724925159NOOOOO YOU CAN'T LET THE CHUDS WIN
>>724934325It was always simple fun picking the US civ, and then having the Medieval States of AmericaFiraxshit robbed us of that.
>>724934325That sounds fucking retarded. Does gandhi morph into george washington or when you switch
I haven't been this devastated by a shit sequel since Homeworld 3
>>724934480It's basically that yesYou swap civs without rhyme or reasonLike they could have made a "logical" civ switch like Rome > Venise > Mussolini or some shit for Italy for instanceBut no, clearly you HAVE to lead a nigger civ out of nowhere at some point
>>724926019That would have taken actual effort, every civ would then need multiple 3d models of leaders, they also wouldn't get globalist propaganda brownie points
>>724925671>Funny dialogue>Speech animation that never ends>Hitler is both shiny and low quality >Defeated Dr Breen and the Combine Empire in a century long worldwide nuclear war in one of my games This was a fun mod
>>724934849>>Hitler is both shiny and low qualityusually that indicates they ripped a model meant for another engine without making proper materials. you saw that shit all the time with gmod ports.
>>724927904>it tanked his 'career'He just stopped playing civ altogether these days.Plays whatever he wants. Kinda based.>>724926329He sold out, said "guys, Civ7 is "good" *wink nudge*", made a few videos to milk the new game out, then dropped it harder than Firaxis dropped the entire franchise on its head.Then he went back to his own thing. He never believed it to be good. He got his paycheck and fucked off. I'd have done the same.
>>724925159CIV had shit boring combat since 5
>>724935961More like since civ 3. You're obviously a newfag who doesn't even remember civ 1 and civ 2. Why don't you go back and play those before running your mouth
>>724934480No, leaders and civs are independent now and the leader does not switch.So you start the game as Gandhi of Rome, then after 100-ish turns you are forced to switch to a different civ from a list of mid-game ones and play as Gandhi of Mongolia and then after another 100 turns, you can become Gandhi of America.
>>724927518Is it still playable, with private servers? It actually looks kind of fun.
>>724925159>what's being worshiped https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZx9XHdD5m4
>>724925159>that weird boomer who plays civs as his chud simulator instead of paradox gamesget on with the times unc
>>724936637>ParaslopErm... No thanks.
>>724927684Dats rite. Civ 4 was peak
>>724925737Still in Early Access and pretty rough for it, though the receding water thing is pretty neat
Civilization lost me with 6 and its Climeme Change dlc. Literally had no impact on the game btw. You had to go out your way to make even a dent on the climate, which was rather comical, if their aim is to suggest its a meme and doesn't exist they succeeded Of all the things this genre NEEDS, why the hell did they waste it on that, other than for Liberal brownie points? The same ones who had to 180 after South Park did, but that little blunder gets swept under the rug.Anyways. Play good 4x games and not wokepieces with an agenda. There is a reason for why England turns into Africa late game and that's a core mechanic
>>724928768It is shit but for different reasons. CK personas and random events suck balls, combat is a fucking mess and being locked to antiquity only is no fun.
>>724925159Civ always added additional game modes to all their gamesGet a better hobby OP
>>724937871Climate change isn't a political talking point it's a matter of fact. Fossil fuel companies want to make it a talking point so they can continue poisoning our air
>>724928734eh they already know. the people who design this stuff aren't looking to maximize profits, because it's not like they really get paid extra if the game sells a lot anyway. most people working in game dev are looking to satiate their own egos, not cater to players or shareholderst. knower
>>724938075Whole dlc with no impact on the gameWhy am I being told about climate change during the middle ages?
>Doing a sale and giving away a DLC for free on the day EU5 releasesmust be a coincidence
>>724938131Can't comment on that because I never played anything past civ, 5 but that sounds a bit silly
>>724938131It is more natural disasters dlc than climate change really
>>724938270Should I get EU5? I'm bad at Stellaris and am struggling to learn HOI4
>>724938323No. it is paraslop through and through, if you are not enjoying paraslop already available you will not enjoy 5 either.
>>724938323Yes they made it easier for new players to get into
>>724925403NTA but anything past 4 (BTS) is shit. I played 5 for a couple hundred hours also, but it sucks and there is no way I'd ever want to play it again.
>>724936637>watching tiny, irrelevant stats increase against an AI opponent that can't play>paying $400 in dlc for itDumb zoomer ESL.
>>724938270It is coincidence because they've had this update cycle for months. Announce patchnotes and new things last week of month, release week later.
>Everyone called the civ-switching was going to fail the game, because of Humankind 2 >WELL YOU DON'T KNOW HOW IT PLAYS, YOU JUST WANT 6 AGAIN, YOU JUST HATE CHANGE> Game fails, they pivot to appeal to the vast majority of people which are still playing 5 and 6> NOOO WHY YOU ARE COMPROMISING ON YOUR VISION STOP LISTENING TO THE HATERS I hope they keep losing, I hope the free DLC fails to bring in new players so that Firaxis can continue their aimless, directionless pandering. Hopefully more layoffs, of which the shills blame on factors unrelated to VII's performance
>>724927564>...and make sure to put a black doctor holding hands with a female viking in the front.Did they ask /v/ to design this or what?
>>724925671They don't even need to add Hitler desu. All they have to do is add Trump
>>724938395>>724938451Which one do I listen too?
Wessex > England > British Empire = CoolRoman Empire > HRE > Germany = CoolBintugu Tribe > France > USA = Fucking retardedIt's that simple.
>>724926019Because of the sheer amount of leaders this would require in order not to become repetitive. Let's assume like the latest Civ there are only 3 ages per game. Now at bare minimum you would need six leaders for each civilisation with two to pick between per age, so that you could play at least two games back to back with the same civilisation and use completely different leaders for both games. For a more enjoyable experience you would need nine leaders per civ with three to pick between per age, but let's just say six. It's simply impossible to make it so that the leaders you can pick between for each age are actually from that age as no civilisation has spanned from the ancient all the way to the modern era, so the leaders can be from any point in history played at any age. Now with all that said: come up with six individual leaders for Britain. Easy, right? Now for Japan, America, Germany. Simple. That's already 23 leaders in the game representing just four civilisations by the way. But now for my actual point: come up with six individual leaders for Gambia. Can't do it? Well good fucking luck with every single African country and most of the rest of the third world.
>>724939382How is this any different from how it is already, with them having to shoehorn a load of civilizations that are obscure African shit & when 1 of the 2 American leaders is Harriet fucking Tubman, who wasn't even a goddamn leader
>>724934480>>724936329Obligatory.
>>724939213I'd say that anyone who uses xslop you should just ignore everything they say try it out if you dont like it refund it. I dont know if it has denuovo or anti tamper so you could get it while sailing but I didnt get into Stellaris either but when I found HOi4 and EUIV I got really into it its just a matter of finding just what kind of history/theme you like I tried CK3 too and sorta enjoyed it Victoria 3 I didnt bother
>>724939795Thanks anon :)
>>724939382Leaders should just be jpegs then, nobody wants to play as an irrelevant shit hole in a game about civilizations. if the industry weren't so gay they would actually be trying to deepen the simulation instead of constantly streamlining it for idiots
>>724925529>make leaders tied to their civs againI don't get why people care about this so much. You can still do an accurate civ/leader combo if you want.If it's just for LARP reasons, I guess I just have never seen Civ as a good series for doing that.
>>724939863>announcing a report
>>724939863Did the mods really ban this guy?
>>724939684I don't understand how your response relates to my post. >how is the sheer bloat of at bare minimum six leaders per civ and the challenge of finding at least six leaders per modern third world country different from Harriet Tubman representing America? They're two different problems.
>>724925159>what went so tragically wrong?They took a game that is a niche tactical game to its bones and tried to "make it fun for everyone" - thus making it fun for no one Tale as old as time
>>724939981do not announce reports.
>>724939163Life and society has become quit ridiculous.
>>724936060Ive played old ones more than anything even if you hate 4 army stacking, 5 and onwards are even worse and just tedious to play
>>724927564Things like this make me not buy their game.
they're going to trigger the panic button and remaster IV in order to keep themselves alive for some more years
>>724939918If civ doesn't give a shit about larp why even use history, just make it a game about aliens. It wouldn't sell as well because even superficially, people care about the historical context
>>724939761Who tf is this bitch?
>>724940208It's like making the US rep Rosa Parks
>>724940208the queen of America.
>>724939184Take your (You) and fuck off back to the Sharty.
>>724940208WE
>>724940119You know what's funny, if they did do this it would be the final nail in the coffin because a majority of share holders would inevitably insist they use AI tools and assets to save costs and make a big return to form profit, which inevitably will turn out dogshit and become a thing for talking heads to dunk on for a week, nobody will buy it, and then Civ will die. And there's a chance they will remaster an earlier Civ as it definitely is one of the go-to panic options for video game devs in trouble.
>>724940305WUZ
>>724938075It's a matter of fact that the greatest impacts of it keep being ~5-10 years out and get pushed back constantly and has been the case since the 1970s.
>>724939761Where's the George Floyd dlc
>>724940505just buy AS shadows and you get to fuck the qweeen of japan as big George.
>>724940265Adding Trump and not having him be a complete retard for troon points would make Civ VII get 100k concurrent easily. idk what that has to do with the sharty
>>724925159>civ switching isn't going anywhereWhy did they even implement that? Like the whole point of civ was guiding a civ through the ages.was it just to sell later age civ dlcs?
I can't understand why these faggots don't stick to the same game and just update the things that technology allows to be updated (larger maps, more complex simulation, better and more AIs, higher resolution graphics, etc.).It's not like Civilization fans are suddenly going to stop playing the game, the formula has already proven to be successful, they don't need to change anything.Seriously, there are only retards in this industry.
>>724940665Wokies hate nationalism because Nazis and want to promote globalism. That is literally the only reason these mechanics were introduced. Functionally it's no different than giving different perks to the same civ in every era but they needed it to be propaganda
>can play as one civ that still has to randomly end it's wars and shit twice a gamethey won't actually fix it
>>724940582We need a competently done Trump mod for V that looks like it was made by the original devs. It's just Trump at a rally and he's always bantering the other civ leaders.>special ability: The GreatestKeeps Ancient and Classical era wonders bonuses into the modern era (like the Great Wall for example)>Special unitsBorder Security: Gets a 20% combat bonus if deployed within two tiles of a border that touches a civilization you're at war withSpecial Ambassador/Spy units that have a higher chance of influencing foreign civ policy.
>>724940665Unironic answer: The same piece of land is owned by different powers throughout different periods of time. For example London was founded by the Romans as Londinium before it got conquered by the Anglo Saxons or some other tribe. They wanted to make this idea the core of Civ 7.
>>724940582Just adding ANY real american leaders would get them points. I don't know how they can fuck up so bad in 2025 when we had years of showing the loud Liberal minority don't buy games. My black friends wanna play as Teddy Roosevelt and Abe Lincoln too, they didn't know who the FUCK Harriet tubgirl even was
>>724940937That seems like the bigger issue of Civ7. Every game is essentially 3 smaller games in one. Having a reset of any kind between these eras feels shit. They can't really "fix" that
>>724941101That already existed, it's called war. A foreign power invades another and takes their city.
>>724941425They're just trying to forcefeed you on the idea that Europeans shouldn't be allowed to have forever nations because reasons.
>>724941510which is why the entire game is shit because you have to be an incompetent 70iq moron to hold that political view in the first place
>>724941605>>724941510This isn't even conspiracy shit now after we found our governments heavily funded propaganda games
>>724941658This has been, or should have been common knowledge since ARMA. What was mind-blowing is that we found out during Obama that they were using it to turn kids into faggots instead.
>>724925224>this will sell our game
>>724925224What one the overt diversity pandering or the civ swapping?
>>724934423these games used to have SOVL
>>724934423medieval petrol battles were lid.
>>724928495should be called mankind.'humankind' is a gay term that pretends women are useful to society.
>>724925671They should at least bring my niggas Stalin and Mao back, they were mainstays from 1 until 4.
>>724942451>mankindhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mankind_(video_game)
>>724942451man is just short for human though
why the fuck did they have you swap civs and not leaders? it's like they wanted to make the least sense possible
>>724927576it's all so tiresome
>>724942109afaik the soul is last seen in 4, where the leader will pic will change their outfit according to eras. Now everything is one for all
>>724942584quite, thus 'humankind' is redundant and explicitly there to promote femininity.
>>724942589We all came from Africa, all nations are built by immigrants and you should shut the fuck up about your homeland becoming Neo Mumbai because ww2 was bad.
>>724942760That was 3 my man
>>724928265>the first grammy to win a video game musicthe composer was at a vidya music concert my friend took me to and it was an experience hearing Baba Yetu live from an orchestra that just played the team rocket song from the pokemon anime 3 mins prior
>>724942109My gf fucking loves 3. All she does is build cities to flood the map and have them flip other cities. There's so many of them that as some point you get shit like New New York.
>>724928810ah yes the fortnite nobuild gambit
>>724938075surely china and india poisoning the world means i must pay more taxes to jetsetting canadian politicians. there is no other option besides paying more taxes or being a climate change denier.
dead series
>>724939382here's a WACKY solution. only use places with some fucking written history?maybe 'gambia' shouldn't be listed beside russia, germany, britain, etc.?
>>724943203Thank you for having a good perspective, the whole could use more people like you
>>724925224lol look at this faggot with no standardshow do you live like this anon? You accept trash in your life and you waste your time playing objective garbage. Get your together retard. You disgust me and are a failure at life
>>724943213To be entirely fair all the models in vi look goofy
>>724943213hilarious that things have gotten so bad V doesn't seem quite so bad relatively
>>724943213apart from the graphics its a better game
>>724941173a lot of people won't realize this until they hit that age change with their 'one civ'. and then their complaints will be met with "we gave you what you wanted" even though that's partially false
>>724926329based as fuck, except the part where you go to reddit
>>724928768Old World is the best modern 4X game just because the AI is actually competitive in single player. As a downside it feels like to me that the optimal resource extraction in it is a bit too easy problem to consistently solve regardless of spawn, and religions could be more distinct than just giving different events.
>>724943374it hurts so much having some retard using the latest month-old iphone tell me that an electric car is the solution to the climate issue, and then cry that their iphone sucks shit and they 'need a new one' and their car doesn't work for 4 months a year when it's -30C out
>>724943559>>724943553IV is the pinnacle of the original Civ style. V is the first of the new style which means it has a lot of teething issues since the gameplay and mechanics were still already being figured out. VI has a more matured version of the new Civ style of gameplay, but suffered from content being left out of the base game to bloated DLC and issues like what >>724943213 pointed out.The best original Civ experience is still IV and for new Civ some modded version of VI that optimized the gameplay and improved models and such would probably be best.
>>724925403for me, it's IV.
I have an idea to make Civ swapping more fun. Your leader also gets that Civs clothing. Seeing George Washington in a Zulu garb or Tubman wearing a Kimono would at least give some flavour to the game
>>724926329
>>724944012>i know what'd improve civ 7!>some actual creative effort!no shit. but then you'd get a nigger like tubman wearing ooga booga zulu clothing and the devs would be branded racist
>>724925159Not Civ players here. What is Civ swapping?
>>724944012Umm that would be cultural appropriation sweetie. My culture is not your costume
>>724944151building a civilization to stand the test of time but being forced twice in a game to change to a new civilization and start over with diplomacy and war efforts that just got erased.
>>724926019The true answer was there wasn’t enough diversity and they are trying to appeal to illegals and migrants who fantasizes about taking over their new historically white countries with their brown and black hands
>>724944231but they're 'fixing' it by letting you stay as one civ, which sounds like it still involves the twice per game 'fuck you' age reset
>>724944248yeah brownoids living 10 to a bedroom and working 2 jobs each spend a lot of time with longform PC games. i'm sure.
>>724944143How is it less racist for George Washington wearing his usual clothing leading the Zulu than him leading with Zulu garb?>>724944196George Washington is leading them, I think it would be racist if he didn't wear their clothing
>>724928768orders system needs an overhaul. maybe workers don't require orders?
>>724925159You're looking for an answer besides women, diversity hires and effeminate liberal "men"?There isn't one. That's what went wrong.
>>724943482that's the problem....
>>724944371i never said washington dressup would be racist, hallucination-chan
>>724925159>hmm, should we borrow proven and time tested mechanics from other successful 4x and grand strategy games?>no, let's take this gameplay feature from a shitty 4x game that massively flopped and make it the central feature of our next civ gameAbsolute geniuses at Firaxis...
>>724940408>fossil fuel company funded research says it's not happening yet>independent research says it's already causing problemsHm, who to believe as a critical thinking amerimutt Oh, I know! I'll listen to Ben Shapiro.>Nyeheheh, caring about your local environment is woke and antisemitic. Remember facts and logic, goyim.That settles that.
>>724925159I don't care about tubman and other none leadersdon't give a flying fuck about obscure african tribesnative americans can also fuck back to their casinosdogshit map generationgutted district systemunit stacking horse shitleader XP grind all of that can fuck off
>>724943017>spamming citiesThis was the meta strat in Civ I, II and III even before sentences like "meta strat" were invented.
>>724925224I also liked humankind. the battle system was pretty good.>>724925671with the civ switching mechanic he could lead greater israel!
>>724928768Because its boring and the systems hinder the aspects of 4x game that I like and discourage anything interesting from happening.
>>724945059please stop fighting on behalf of further taxation and reduction in luxuries while the other side of the world pollutes more in a week than your city does in 3 years
>>724927576To bad the game was dogshit.
>>724944445you're an idiot if you think this is caused by anything other than corporate nepo-babies trying to reinvent the wheel the only thing those clowns are good at is deflecting blame
>>724945218It's a good strat, I just always found it kind of silly looking.
>>724944445How can one man be so correct?
>>724944445shame, would have been a great quints post
>>724940208Wacky waving inflatable arm flailing Tubman.
>>724945560in theory 7 having towns and cities should be a good solution to thatit's just implemented in the dumbest way
>>724926329Hi Sulla.
>>724945607Hey hey people.
>>724945485it's boththe nepo babies are always liberal
So essentially, instead of playing as “Romans” and swapping between Trajan and Caesar over time (like how identity persists but people die over time). You play as “Caesar” but your people’s identity and culture suddenly and irreversibly shift to something only tangentially related at best? Like Rome to the Aztecs (because they are both religious) to the Chinese (because they both sacrifice their own population)?
>>724925159they should just say "we wont be updating this, please just hope the next one is good again"
>221 posts itt>not a single anon behind any of them has played the game
>>724946232>the nepo babies are always liberaland again, you're falling for nepo-baby deflectionnepo-babies are just as likely to be conservative as liberal, the only thing that unites them is that they're given a far higher status in life because of who their family and acquaintances are
>>724925159Is the UI still fucked?
>>724946503Yes, but less so.
>>724925597Really, if they were that insistent on it being an option, the way I would have handled it. >Keep baseline "always the same" as default>have a new Civ Shuffle side mode>every time the age changes, every player is given a pick of 3-4 random civilizations not currently in play and must select one to replace their current one with>also release an April Fools dlc pack of Totally Accurate Historical Leaders with a new "leader" for each civ>the leader in question is some notable historical figure from each civ who would be completely inappropriate pick as a actual leader, like Martin Luther King Jr
im having fun with it :)
>>724946414the issue with 7 is that several core systems are badly thought outso yes people who have spent thousands of hours playing civilization games absolutely can have educated opinions on 7 without playing the game itself because they identified,through their experience, that multiple decisions in 7 were in expert terms "fucktarded"
>>724946615YWNBAW
>>724946414I think most here did and were disappointed.
>>724940505George Floyd will be a Great Person (Prophet) in the upcoming "Unite and Flourish" DLC.
>>724947451Historically accurate.
>>724925159If civs must change over eras why not just change it so>each civ has a predetermined path>etrsucans > Rome > ostrogoths > peidmont Sardinia > Italy >tupi > owasco > iraqouis > 13 colonies > america And so on.America would be a problem but just make them part of the iraqouis. Its better than harriot tubman leading the british empire.
>>724946615This happened to me where uplink failed to close properly and just ran in the background for like 2 weeks straight. I have 1700 hours in uplink. Its a good game and ive hacked a few banks before but its one of my top games and people around town think im autistic now.
>>724948257Because there is also a system where you unlock perks per leader and you can put those on anyone. The entire game is made to be as modular as possible.
I didn't buy civ7 because its marketing heavily featured brown women. Simple as.
>>724925224woke garbage
>>724948723Well strategy games depend on rigid roles and structure. Theres dozens of moving parts so being able to recognize who does what at a glance is important. Is this another case of drama club students deciding they know better?
>>724949321Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending it. Unlockable perks that can apply to everyone is the stupidest shit I've seen in a 4X game because you know it ends ith like 3 good combinations that are miles better than others.
>>724945485>blue-haired women on the dev team>lousy, woke gameEvery single time. I don't care if this truth offends, red ditor.
>>724925224I think the one thing that should have been lifted from Humankind was its ungabunga era. Encouraging early game roaming and providing some incentives to settle a little later felt like it gave you far more choice for your all important starting city.
>>724925159Oh boy, I can be a monoculture but the game still has its absolute dogshite era swapping system and map generation. But hey, now I can be Harriet Tubman of Egypt for the whole game. That'll fix the deep problems in design!
>>724949592Exactly its just going to wind up like policy cards where every game ends up using the same 10 policies of the 120 options. I went back to civ 4. A few months ago. Its great. I forgot have OP slavery was. Civ never really solved the problem of having objectively better choices. Ive never used the caste system in 4 for example.
>>724928768i really enjoyed my games on this one but every single one of those games ended up being about the same
>>724925403Civ is like Pokemon5>2>1>3>4>6>7
CIV IV remains supreme
>>724950138>civ 4 slavery >losing borders to culture? >smash 3 pops and build a theater >need money?>smash 3 pops and build a bank>losing on tech?>smash 3 pops and build a library >enemies getting close?>smash 3 pops and build a rifleman >losing the space race?>smash 3 pops and build that casing >city rioting?>smash 3 pops and get something for free>6 turns later >new pops are ready to smashIts so busted most games I end still using slavery. It drops off at the last 50 turns but even then its still a valid pick. Its way less useful in 5 and 6 since pops are much harder to grow since they removed health.
>>724950218your taste in civ games is as shit as your taste in pokemon
i learned my lesson the hard way with civ 6 to not get it on launch. Like every civ game they have their chance to make the game not shit with the first expansion, lets see if they can stick the landing this time
>>724925375Revolution is better than 6
>>724950289>civ 4>going for culture victory Oh cool 400 turns of sitting there and waiting with 3 cities! Oh baby! We're gaming tonight! 4 is mt favorite but it has its flaws. Tourism was a good call.
>>724950758They need to bring back Revolution. It had better balance than most Civ games.
>>724950758Uniquely named forests, rivers and mountains were pretty cool.
Isn't the whole point of a game like this to see a civilization go through the times and last? What the fuck sense does swapping make?
>>724940208Harriet Tubgirl.Google Tubgirl to find out more.
>>724925224Suicide of the West.You would think that this is caused by the East trying to buy out every assets of the West but I think the East is just a 3rd actor that arrived at an opportunistic time and will also try to commit suicide as it adopts the West's current ideals.You could also call it "The Cuckholding of the West" and make a book out of it. Fuck, I can't recycle underwears to make a underwear rental services because it's "unsanitary" to the eyes of the law and yet people use each others like rentals and develop tons of STIs and bonding disorder and abortions and if I try to put a no adultery clause in a prenup the judge is going to ignore because because in the eyes of the law, committing adultery is a human right. What the fuck guys the woman you put your penis in had other guys do the same before and you don't realize that that's cuckhold behavior?
People who play 4X and GSG just want the same game they discovered as a young 12 year old autist until they die. The only variation of the market should be marketing to the different periods in which the 12 year old picks up a game
>CIVILIZATION>CIVILIZATION: RETURNS>CIVILI3ATION>C IV ILIZATION>CI V ILIZATION>CI VI LIZATION>CI VII_IZATION>CI VIII LIZATION>CI IX IZATION
>>724951263If that was true then I'd be doing nothing but playing 4X still and I almost never do any more despite keeping tabs on the genre. Last one I tried was some Warhammer one (was it Gladius) that reminded me why I stopped playing 4X in general.
>>724950552Does modern Civ have slavery? It feels like competitors can easily take its pedestal just by being... accurate and historical. Civ has wanted go be cartoony and non serious for a while
>>724951375>C VII LIZATION>C VIII LZATION>C VIIII LZATON
>>724951375>THE CIV
Also the only people that want ICS back are the people that will never play a new ICS game so you shouldn't even bother trying.
>>724951536Incans can turn beaten units into workers, so yes.
>>724951375Trump will save Civilization.
>>724926329Anon are you ok?
>>724926329>literal redditor crashout>a bunch of (You)s calling him basedholy fuck i need to get off this site if this is what /v/ has become
>>724926329wasn't that potato fag on the verge of killing himself for the nth time because people were calling him out as an actual shill
>>724937871I didnt mind the climate change stuff because i invite more room for disasters and resource scarcity but pairing a clean energy message with anti-nuclear propaganda is psychotic. Way to stick it to oil and be paid off by oil at the same time.
>>724937871Civilization 1 and 5 are the only Civ games without climate change mechanics.
Giving the ability to avoid Civ switching doesn't seem like it would have much practical impact when the fundamental flaw with the game is being built around the Age system reducing the game to three minigames.
>>724952703This isn't a bad idea if it's properly fleshed out. I wish we had a universe where people did Spore-likes but they expanded on each phase.
>>724926019>allowing you to change out of Harry TubmanThat would be a hate crime.
>>724952212yeah he uploaded a couple of very cringe videos and had a couple of reddit meltdowns too. never liked him so it was very funny to watchon a related note, the civ 6 multiplayer youtuber herson had a giant fucking meltdown which was also hilarious
>>724925159I'll just keep playing civ 5 forever.
>>724952579That's a bit disgenous as civ 6's presentation of it is obviously grander & more involved, for better or worse, as I agree with >>724952436
>>724925403Civ 5 is great, hope that doesn't trigger you
>>724942109>ywn have bald Joan d'Arc tomboy armée vet to rough you up and motivate you to become the best you can be
>>724925224>immediately lost interest in the game when I saw that the name was HUMANkind instead of Mankind and the cover had a nigger scientist (lol) hold hands with a blond viking warrior woman (lol x2)>game ended up being shitMy chud sense has never once failed me.
>>724939320Stop being so racist bingutu tribe is clearly the most advancedYou literally swap from ancient Egypt to fucking buganda in this game lol
>>724925597>England is DLC>It's realI looked this up because I completely ignored this game but man, imagine paying to play as a Civ for ONE age in the game, that's like paying to play as Luigi for one world only in Mario Bros.
whats the point of not letting you play with hitler, everyone's basically a nazi nowadays anyways.
>>724954325We had a good thing going with Stalin but then schools started telling people about muh gulags and muh purges
>>724954325The day a civ lets you play with hitler I assume it will be truly the desperate "Break glass because oh shit we're fucked" moment
>>724954518I miss the era when we could casually have authoritarian thugs in media.
>>724954617>whites don't want to be genocided anymore>oh, shit we're fuckedHey there, moshe. Anyway, I wish firaxis would just release the 4th game with V's culture mechanics and close down their studio afterwards.
>>724954617they unironically cannot do it because the anti-semitism leagues would come down on them. they basically scour all media for this shit. they're an American game company which is just straight no, there will be jews in the company that would never allow it even. That's why Stalin was no issue until 5 but they could never touch hitler, no doubt devs would have wanted to, how can you not think of him for a game like this
>>724954325the actual answer i assume is a combination of>most actual players would probably be fine about it but they dont want to lean into the fraction who would be way too into it>theres another fraction whod be full blown twitter outrage which would get back to news outlets and result in negative pressand by far the biggest reason:>nazi imagery is illegal in some countries so itd hurt sales
>>724925403A LOT of 20-28yo anons were Civ 5 enjoyers on their first PC circa 2010-2018, consider that they got it on steam for $4For hundreds of hours? And modded content? Civ 5 is still my prefer over 6
>>724926329Major league swag out major league swag out
>>724951536Civ 6 and 5 do have slavery but again, because of how they reworked health, it no longer serves as a soft cap to pop. Since theres no longer ant soft cap, you would have insane pops early game so firaxis reduced population growth to a crawl in these games where 8+ pops is a lot. It doesnt start snowballing until late game. Sacrificing 40 turns worth of pop growth just isnt worth. Civ 4, losing 3-5 pops was a 10-15 turn affair. So because pops mean production, gold or most importantly growth, sacrificing them is usually not ideal. Additionally they nerfed it by making wonders non-rushable.
>>7249359617 actually has the best combat in the series by far but with all the flaw on top of it no one cares.
>>724936427No, and you can barely find any reference to this game at all on the English speaking web since it as Korean only.
>>724952042>um actually hating the progressive modern game and being rude to reddit is redditTrue, true. Thanks for sharing.
>>724943875V will always be superior to them all in terms of presentation. It has the best soundtrack and narrator. It has the best graphics. It had the best leader screens. VI fixed some issues, and tried to do more for with the hexagonal tile system, but it's narration and presentation sucked. No fuck Sean "People, people people people, your people people people your people" Bean.
>>724950289>>724950807Going for Culture + Domination in V is actually super fun with all the DLC. Its just borderline impossible at higher difficulties but I still have fun on Emperor doing it, and provided you get good happiness from religion, wonders, and city states you don't have stay cucked at 3-5 cities.
>>724945059Nice job doing nothing to refute the facts I presented.We've already passed 40 so-called catastrophic climate milestones so far with every prediction made having failed. Why should this continue to be believed when the people who push it produce more pollution than those who's so-called 'impact' they wish to diminish by taking away access to luxuries and increasing their tax burdens? Stupid retard.
>>724946414And you didn't buy Concord, so go fuck yourself.>but you need to experience it for yourself so you know it's bad, no you cannot use word of mouth or your own judgement based upon easily researched information, you gotta purchase the game and play it (preferably beyond the refund cutoff heheheh)pic related it's (You)
>>724945373literally this. the only people who are so keen on advocating for increased taxes and reduction in life quality are faggots who don't have anything anyways, and don't understand that paying more taxes to the government wont stop the planet from warming up
>>724951263No we want games made by competent devs who understand the industry and the genre they're working on who aren't stupid retards who copy another company's failed concept because the women in charge can into original thinking.
>>724926329/thread
>>724957095Yeah they fixed cultural victories after 4. They added culture in 3 and didn't really figure it out until 5. 4 was aids. It usually functions as a back up if you are losing the space and domination victories. Its rarely played as the primary victory just because of how boring it is.
>>724957735It also didnt help that they nerfed culture from 3. You used to be able to conquer continents just because cities flipped like pancakes to culture.
>>724926329These are my exact feelings but change Reddit to Steam boards for Helldivers 2 and change out shilling youtubers for bashing youtubers who were the only popular voices telling people what was going on while these neoliberal neoniggerfaggots deepthroat the corporation over the customer as if it's the only way for them to continue to breathe oxygen. We have evidence of their lies. It's documented. They're all diseased and deserve to die.
>>724957735>>724957923Yeah I love culture victories in V, its probably the only reason I still play the game from time to time at this point.
>>724925403Civ 5 if I want to finish a game. Civ 4 if I want to do protracted wars.
>>724958085Culture and religion spreading are such dick moves in V because you can't do much to counter it if one person is really good at it.
I liked Civ VI. I thought the cartoonish aesthetic was nice and the leaders were all pretty distinct and interesting, and the music is amazing. The district slotting puzzle aspect of the game felt pretty board-gamey but was fun. My biggest gripe was 1UPT and endgame micro, but the early game is the most fun anyways.
>>724925224Lost interest in this game after seeing the DEI slop but this trailer was kinohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yl7YKppgaiY
>>724942109this is EXTREMELY RACIST! the implication being that european formal clothes are the most advanced clothes to wear!
>>724925597>and a bunch of civs switch to random african shit for no apparent reason.Why do you feel the need to lie?
WHERES THE FUCKING CRACK ALREADY
>>724958550religion in 5 snowballs fast. you can permanently lock a player out of their own religion if you do it right, or make them spend free great persons on prophets. and if you have a good faith producer like desert folklore you won't have any issue flipping them back over
>>724959315>>724958550I don't see any difference here than 6, religion is fucking annoying
>>7249594286's religion is far more aggressive and powerful. in 5 it just gives a load of passive bonuses
>>724932330They hired a studio to work on payday 2 and added a subscription to payday 2 so they get some income while the main studio is tasked with fixing payday 3
>>724960670How did things get so fucking bad? Probably going to see a similar situation with Killing Floor 3.
>>724958550Yeah its really funny seeing the AI devolve into pacifist religious wars and sending swathes of great prophets into each other's territories. Although when they try that on me that's usually my casus belli to invade them anyways lol. If you manage to get a bunch of the important renaissance wonders like Sistine, Globe Theater, and of course Uffizi its almost impossible for other civs to bounce back and win a culture victory over you. You can basically opt for Louvre and Broadway but even then it might be too late because you'll be behind on tourism. >>724959585Haven't played 6 at all, what makes religion more aggressive and powerful in that game?
>>724960670What the actual fuck? Putting a subscription on an older game to fix the sequel is absolutely insane. Please tell me its a mandatory subscription too, I feel like I need to laugh harder.
i still think civ switching (or rather, civ evolution) is an interesting idea for a 4Xmaybe something akin to paracocks alt-history paths where you become the same nation but with x flavor, but expanded on across agesit doesn't make sense strictly adhering to existing civs and having rome become america though
>>724961764I've played a little VI. You can pretty much just purchase entire armies from religious fervor alone, unlike just getting a few units her and there in V.
>>724927564It's straight up fetishistic. It's surreal. I still remember the reporter arguing with the Kingdom come deliverance guy (and I didn't play that game, I don't like northern european settings) and the fucking reporter's logic of a black person in Czechoslovakia is>Well what if a black trader came over and had a one night stand with a local innkeeper and had a half-black Czech character there as a resultliterally his fucking thought process. Coulda been an Abyssinian priest, coulda been a trader who showed up to trade and was confused by this strange place and you help him out, could have been a Sudanese slave warrior who got captured, converted to Christianity and now travels with his liberator. NOPE! IMMEDIATE THOUGHT IS BLACKED ONE NIGHT STAND!And then of course they have some arrogant twat apparently show up from Mali instead in the sequel.
>>724961764>>724962243religion is too good to pass up in 6. And the ai loves it so you'll want to smash theirs into the ground and spread yours, or use yours as a defense so they can't win with theirs. You can benefit from another civ's religion if you failed setting up your own, but you'll have to manipulate the AI so they don't win with it, and if its a human well GG you fucking lost if you let their religion gain a footholdAnd yes the purchasing power of religion is INSANE. I spend most the game using faith to purchase workers, buildings, anything
>>724962805You can conquer the person who founded a religion, THEN spread it yourself. You won't get the founder bonuses, but they can't win if they have no cities, right?
>>724962757Meanwhile on the other side of the spectrum you have people thinking that blacks didn't exist until colonization of Africa and they stopped existing once the colonizes became their own nation
>>724962757It's anti-humanism. These people love nothing more than destroying their own people out of some perceived notion of fairness.
>>724962243>>724962805Man, buying a lot of troops with religious fervor sounds really awesome. I never even bothered doing that in 5 because you never have enough faith to do it feasibly
>>724963724Says the evil who thinks themselves better with the reasoning being: because we are.
>>724962981I believe so. Having a faith economy is pretty much too good not to do, for any playstyle. There's 1 civ that is locked out of faith completely. I kinda wish you could turn it off fully rather than just the victory condition sometimes
>>724925159FAFO
>>724964039Wow, nice retort. FOR A FAGGOT.
Harriett Tubman? Seriously? A fucking human trafficker?
>>724964241Crazy to me how "remove the non-deserving characters" is considered racist because one of those characters is black. These people couldn't be more politically mindbroken if they tried.
>>724964039This is you >>724964241This is what you do.Gay.
>>724926019Because they struggle enough as is finding all the irrelevant black women to cram into the game. They could never find 4-5x as many.
>>724925159Cool, still not buying. Get it right the first time with Civ 8.
>>724964642I think it's more so that you cannot avoid the sheboon girlboss leaders. The game forces them on you. They learned their mistakes from the past.
>>724964241LOL, yeah, CIV died with 5th. This is just proof they sold their soul to the DEIvils.
>>724964471>human traffickerYou have to give me the rundown on that one
>>724964152The Kongo leader Mvemba can't found a religion, or even have holy sites (conquered holy sites disappear), but gets to benefit from founder beliefs of someone else's religion. Their only way to actively spread religion is with their apostles they get from building a neighborhood or theater square in a city which has a majority religion from another player.The other leader can found a religion normally.
>>724964891>ooogabooga memooga of the koonga can only steal religion not come up with onelmfao
>>724965297Your words, not the original posters
>>724964241>do everything in your power to make despotism bad in game>practice it irlCries out in pain as he strikes you.
>>724966353>make despotism bad in gameMonarchy and Authoritarianism aren't bad, they just provide you with different bonuses and focus
>>724966534Neither of those are despotism. You basically want to get off it as soon as possible.
>>724966209Why are you gay?
The LGBT keeps gaining grounds, and what are you retards doing? Laughing at Russians dying because it's safe "racism"? This is what you want, you want your sons and daughters to become trannies. Otherwise you'd help the only bastion resisting this evil joke of propaganda...
>>724959201answer my fucking post
>>724967290no one cares
>>724967290>actually its good russia is liquidating its white population while importing Chinese, indian and muslim laborTrue, true. Lucky vatniks get to have gay sex on drone cam and what do we get?Harriet fucking tubman... America is finished.
>>724945059Sorry anon, climate change is delayed. Microsoft needs another coal plant to power its AI serve farms.
>>724967290>Laughing at Russians dying because it's safe "racism"?Personally, I laugh because the Russians dying are soldiers only and they started it. Death to 10,000 Orcs for every one Ukrainian civilian killed.
>>724971467I mean the ratio is pretty close to that. The Russian military has done a great job avoiding killing civilians.
>>724971617They literally killed two elderly people walking their dog yesterday. 20,000 Orcs for that, another 5000 for the dog.
>>724971467Now this is bait posting.
>>724971754As opposed to figuratively killing two elderly people and a dog?
>>724971754Yeah? Go tally up all the civilian casualties and compare it to similar conflicts. The numbers are very low. Especially impressive considering how much combat has occurred in cities.
>>724972028The numbers should be zero. What recent conflicts do you consider "similar"
>>724972545Gaza, Lebanon, Syria, Iraq.
>>724972683None of those are particularly similar but okay.
>>724938732One of the great things about the older games, is that since they are old, there won't be updates/expansions coming along to fuck up all the mods you're using.
>>724925159can i play as australia yet?
>>724972942They all involve a modern military similar to the Russian military fighting in urban environments. All produced civilian casualties which dwarf those in the ukraine conflict.
>>724973110in civ 6 ya
>>724973192what about civ7?
>>724973535nah m8
>>724973793:(
>>724973145Only Syria dwarfs, and that's a 15 year long civil war resulting in famines and infrastructure collapse. Regardless, any and all civilian deaths in Ukraine are unjustifiable as there are zero reasons to Russia to be in Ukraine at all and there's no military justification for targeting civilians (besides the terrorism of it all)
