>>724942240
PvP is kinda gay
>traveling through an area in an MMO
>xxxSlaYeR_Of_D00M_98xxx oneshots you out of nowhere and runs away

>>724942240
Turns out that MMO etc mechanics are geared toward PVE and there are no incentives to pvp

>>724942240
because of the skill curve

>>724942714
>travel to unknown lands
>die by unseen dangers
kino

PVP tends to attract cancerous people and cheaters.

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The problem is usually with devs trying to appeal to both audiences poorly. Nobody thinks about Bartle personality types anymore.

>>724942240
>Game needs more then just pvpfags, because every pvp focused game, ever has shown that pvpfags will avoid one another like the plague and exclusively harass anyone weaker than themselves.
>Adds enough PVE to get a functional playerbase
>Said pvpfags proceed to engage in the worst version of pvp. Actively attempting to drive away players and restrict their ability to grow in power or skill
>PVE players quit
>pvpfags cry
>game dies
>2 years later another game decides it can make pvp work
I wanted the 120 second timer for this.

>>724942813
the incentive is fun, you know why we all play games in the first place. Oh right you just enjoy daily tasks and checklists because your life is shit

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>>724942240
Well I'd be able to answer your question if you could provide and example of this happening that I could use as a source of relevant data

>>724942240
>You've seen this too, right?
No, I've only ever seen the opposite. You really sound like a whiney little faggot though OP.

>>724943318
>Oh right you just enjoy daily tasks and checklists because your life is shit
Nobody enjoys that, that's why I don't play these dogshit games
>the incentive is fun
So just play LoL you nigger

>>724943180
This but unironically. PvPfags are always bottom-of-the-barrel-tier losers who never want an actually challenging and fair fight. If I can't stomp, I won't fight.

>>724942240
PvP is anti humanity
We should encourage more pve games and build a better future together

>>724942240
No I haven't.
I have seen demanding a higher emphasis on PvP or competitive mechanics kill many games though.

most people get a bruised ego from dying to an actual person, thats the crux of it
>i-i dont like pvp in xxxxxx
usually translates to
>i'm dogshit at the game and get frustrated at getting shit on by more skilled players
simple as

I have no issue with PvP - it's usually more engaging than fighting mobs - but PvP players tend to just be greifing niggers rather than the honorable duelists they desperately try to protray themselves as. Getting jumped by someone twice your level isn't PvP; it's just hazing.
PvP battlegrounds where you actually have large groups of players warring with each other is pretty kino.

>>724943435
>So just play LoL
Nooo! I NEED you to shit and cry about me in chat!
No, I won't stand and fight your friends! This is WAR and that means I will only ever punch down.

The only fun i had in pvp is on chiv2 and thats because it has very limited but dedicated playerbase
It also no ranking shit

>>724943610
ganking in wow is more of a design failure, pvp in mmos should be power level restricted

>>724942240
PvE is Faustian, PvP is a rat-race

>>724943416
guild wars 1, sort of. first release had pvp so centered in the game design that the reward for clearing the hardest dungeon in the game was the ability to queue for a pvp tournament mode that globally announced the winners and had in-game streaming. last release they let a pve community manager try her hand at balancing underused skills and ruined pvp for months because they refused to roll it back.

PvP in every mmo I've played has been dogshit because of the pve element. You have to have gear be a factor otherwise people won't engage. But then it's 90% stats rubbing against each other, 5% matchups, 5% actual skill. I am the biggest carebear imaginable in MMOs, but I'll also put hours in fighting games, where the better player almost always wins.

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>>724943180
>make the players the source of fun
>player power is not reset, but cumulative
>stronger players get stronger, new/weaker players are kept down
>players quit out of frustration
>playerbase eats itself
It will never work, the system itself is designed to gatekeep.
>>724943594
kys

>>724943743
>pve
>not a rat race
Pve niggers demand full consumes buffs gear and speedclear strats on basic content. Fuck off

>>724943610
>classic wow
>killing vultures in the badlands for that spicy wings quest
>spy an orc also killing vultures
>target him
>he targets me
>we assume battle stances and engage
>truly a battle for the ages, as epic as a level 40 slapfight can be
>win by the skin of my teeth
>orc respawns, we fight again and I win again
>his skeleton immediately disappears
>5 minutes later a skull level orc with similar name starts running at me
>guns me down in the streets
and that's why I will never take "world pvp" seriously

>>724943594
Its simple. Winning is fun. Losing is not. Ganking is a 1 way fun transfer.
>>724943435
I actually like stuff like dota but it doesn't have the fun of random encounters in open world and hunting people or chasing them off to secure reasources.

>>724943929
and yet Tarkov keeps on not dying despiste the russian faggot leading the project being a massive fat retard
>kys
admitting you're terrible at a game is the first step to improving shitter-kun ;^)

>>724944073
Just get your boys to come gank him back.

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>>724943952
>He thinks classic wow ultratism is baseline

>>724944203
Tarkov and other full loot pvp games work because A: there is massive rewards for the risk
B theres an economy to gear and gear gets lost or destroyed

>>724943925
This is why I stuck with New World until the recent news about AGS layoffs. I'd say the PvP is like 70% skill 20% matchup and 10% statcheck. Shame that devs spent most of their time half-assedly catering to themepark pvers, and in fact removing large chunks of emergent techniques and mechanics that made the PvP have a high skill ceiling.

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>>724942240
Games that mix PvE and PvP tend to create this situation where players become too used to winning, that they can just learn the mechanics in PvE and eventually beat it because it's content designed to be beaten.
PvP doesn't offer this safety net: some guy will always be better than you, you will not reach the highest rank, you will not earn the best reward.

>>724944217
Pretty much every coop game is like this now. watch all the guides and be kitted out in meta gear or fuck off unless you're with a friend group.

>>724944159
depends on the game, souls invasions are justified by system limits, you can only invade up, Tarkov has legsweeps etc.
wow ganking is dogshit because you can't possibly fight back but games like tarkov, destiny 2, elden ring jave good asimetric pvp

>>724944372
I played a bit at launch, did they ever fix the issue with "just walk away"? In that it was extremely difficult to stop people just sprinting off. Also ranged being bullshit

>>724944372
Without the themepark your precious game would have died inside a month, instead of shambling along even this long.
You people really can't fathom how niche your activity is, can you?

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>>724942240
It's because they come for the prestige of playing the hard game and get upset when the actually hard part hits

>>724942240
because a lot of the "pvpfags" are actually streamers and other death-deserving specimens nowaday. they don't give a picogram of a shit about anything but "uohh my t3 subs might be bored if i don't epically pwn other players!"

hot take: every games should have optional pvp content

>>724944675
what causes you to be so assblasted at players who are better than you?

>>724944695
>Every game should have an integrated non-ootional PvP content that cannot be avoided, supplemented by boss tier npcs with cranked ai if they try to be cheeky and play offline.
Fixed

PvP makes people buttmad because there's no "trick" to beating it. You actually have to be better than another human being, and depending on the human being sometimes you just can't. It's easy to "beat" something like Super Mario Bros because you're competing against static computer programming. Eventually you'll figure out a strategy and it will work 100% of the time because a computer can't adapt. You can't do that for people because people are all different, and unless you're some savant there will always be someone better than you who can show up and curbstomp your ass.

>>724944987
>Eventually you'll figure out a strategy
most of these retards just look up a guide anyway and then pretend they figured it out themselves they are that fucking stupid

>>724943416
Sea of thieves

>>724945135
its always been hilarious to me invading on souls games because you find the same 3 fucking timmy guidefag builds, shitting on those faggots is always fun

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>>724942240
>What is this phenomenon where players join a game with PvP then try and bully the devs into removing PvP entirely so they can play some PvE hugbox?
I've seen way more of the opposite, where people will constantly complain there isn't a PvP mode in a game that has no way to support it (See DRG, Helldivers, Jump Space, etc)
It's pretty annoying because there is so many games built with PvP in mind, but these idiots have to shit up the game's forums with this crap

>>724945365
Oh, anon. It's not REAL pvp unless I can shoot you in the back while you're wounded, and my three buddies in discord can warn me if you log or try to rally support.
It's only real pvp if I can attack you with every advantage and then walk away from any attempt to fight back

>>724945236
For invaders or hosts? Because in my experience you'll get hosts fucking about using garbage weapons, and invaders using ultra tryhard twink shit.

>>724942240
Every game with pvp will inevitably have unbeatable nolifers whose only hobby is making the game less fun for others. These are also typically a game's most loyal fans, so there's no incentive for the devs to address the issue either. It's just a fact of life.

>>724942240

>new world was originally a fully WPVP game
>within 1 beta test the community forced the devs to make PVP optional

>GW2 originally was going to be full faction open world PVP
>PAX East feedback turned it into a PVE game with PVP that barely gets crumbs of updates

Thanks PVE community

Because everyone is a cheating faggit nowadays

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>>724945723
>"why won't devs make the most expensive and failure prone games adhere to MY extremely niche playstyle?"
>"No, I won't play games that offer a pure pvp experience. I'm a shitter and can't out-skill anyone"
Explain why the multiplayer FPS/Warsim/MOBA/Fighting game is just not as good as being able to poopsock for a week and kill fresh players until they quit?

>>724945931
Because none of them have the rest of the elements of an MMO. I like gear crafting I like trading I like i like questing, raiding I like grinding levels and I like high fantasy settings.

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>>724945735
Theres a lot of people cheating for sure but its always funny how you see someone complaining about how EVERYONE cheats anymore and you look at their profile and they have some of the most low skill gameplay stats or videos you have ever seen. Like every game has tight skill based matchmaking anymore so unless you yourself are in the top skill bracket you are rarely going multiple games with constant cheating.

>>724945931
They can't play those because there's ranked systems. They'll get placed with other tryhards meaning they can't just spend their entire time curbstomping new players for easy dopamine.

>>724942240
Pve players are weirdly more uptight and insufferable than pvp players. Prissy faggots.

Cheaters.

>>724943180
It's simple
If you pk a player of lower level than you you lose PvP currency

>>724946217
Cheating happens at any level dumbass.

>>724946276
MMOs have ranked matches. The issue is those end up being the same shitty comps
Mage priest rogue with either a druid or hunter subbed in.

>>724942240
PVP is ass and discourages cooperation.

>>724946395
Not as much as these faggots make it out to happen.
>IT HAPPENS EVERY GAME DUDE I SWEAR YOU JUST CANT TELL BECAUSE THEY HIDE IT SUPER DUPER WELL ITS IMPOSSIBLE TO TELL
Actually schizophrenic tier cope, you are just shit at video games. The only real cheating that is happening at every level of games is controller aim assist in FPS.

>>724942240
Matchmaking always results in everyone hating everyone else and the emergence of people who deem themselves to be some form of arbiter.

>>724945572
depends heavily on the game
ds1 sure, however, this speaks more to the moral fiber of the players
ds2? weird fucking system, didnt pvp much here myself
ds3? balanced by relative power level, twinking is possible but also harder and less powerful
ER? completely host sided, host has so many advantages that if you lose an invasion the invader is MUCH, MUCH better than you

>>724942813
What if you had to do world pvp over some area and the winers race chooses how the neutral town would look like ( example - a guild of night elves won a skirmish ratchet would look different. More trees kick out all of the goblins etc.)

>>724946136
>Mario Kart would be better if I could level up my kart and curbstomp newbies in the Mushroom Cup with my Lv99 super speedy wheels

>>724942240
The reality is to gitgud you need to sit down and grind for hundreds if not thousands of hours and the gamer class is too soft to walk the warriors road.

>>724946494
Sounds like you've made up a scenario in your head.
Cheating is rampant. This is fact.

>>724944073
>classic wow
>be orc warlock
>up great lift from 1k needles
>passing rfk/rfd
>see human paladin
>we are passing each other, no hostility
>suddenly stunned
>paladin sneaky bitch
>fight back hard
>kill paladin
>he revives after corpse walk
>kill him again
>kill him again
>into 1k needles
>kill him again
>chase him all the way into tanaris, giving him time to seperate and start a quest
>kill him again
>kill him again
>/lol
Kiiiiino

>>724946650
No it's wouldn't because I dont want to play mario kart i want to play EVE and World of Warcraft classic.

>>724942240
>I never see this the other way around.
Then you are retarded and underage
Vermintide 2 added a versus mode that nobody liked or played it because players kept pestering the stupid devs for one

>>724946779
>arathi highlands
>on warlock quest for fire elementals
>get to spot, human warlock is also there doing the same quest
>sit and wait, letting human finish fighting a mob
>/wave
>human heals and drinks
>I walk away to other side of quest area and pull mob
>human attacks me
>kill her and the mob
>wait till she revives and kill her again
>kill her a third time
>hide behind rock, and set succ to other side of her body
>ambush her on revive
>chase her towards human town
>kill her again
>human warrior tries to save her
>kill them both
>finish quest in peace
It's the little moments that make pvp wonderful. Like dunking on retards that start fights when you were gunna be chill.

>PvE hugbox
That's exactly the dream of every single pvp fag with the small caveat that they want the environment be made out of (weak and easy to beat) players. Like cheaters, the one thing these types hate the most is facing their own kind hence pvp centric shit always dies.

I've never been attacked when my PvP flag is up, and I openly use the main road
Do people see "Shaman" and think "Oh fuck, this guy is gonna melt me in two windfury crits"?

>>724947094
>>724946779
Yeah see shit like this is the spice that make the game special.
>crusing around looking for a quest mob
>see some random rogue attack another player
>jump his ass and kill him
>me and the s. Priest party up and finish an elite quest together

>>724942240
Killed quite a few mmos. Typical invade your space then leave only ashes and trash.

>>724942240
>You've seen this too, right?
Pretty much every MMO was plagued with this cancer since the early 2010s. I think the main problem is that the original MMO audience who started playing in late 90s and early 00s, and who defined the mmo golden age, had moved on to other genres or to real life by this point, because mmos were getting stale and boring, and the new mmo audience that replaced them basically hates MMOs and have been forcing mmos devs to turn them into single player daycare hugboxes for mentally ill people.

>>724947185
mental cope m8, pvpers mostly just want to fight but these games usually include dogshit crafting or economy mechanics, this drives high ego low skill pvers away, eve online and tarkov are good examples of games made for pvpers that last to this day

>>724947268
That kind of pvp is the best. I like to leave people alone and I don't tend to start fights, but I'll set aside my afternoon to corpse camp someone that attacks me first.

>>724944456
I think remember this roe monk fucker. 90% game-time he hides behind pillars.

>>724947185
No that's you just acting butthurt since a good chunk of the gankers I know will also duel everyone they can just to measure their dicks. One that I leveled with in classic would duel me before we even started questing for the afternoon and we would just kill any alliance on site even if they were higher level or in a group. I miss playing with him but he's doing MOP and I'm on aniversary.

>>724947518
hard agree pvpers understand that getting shit on is how you improve

>>724943594
>most people get a bruised ego from dying to an actual person
those same people also get a bruised ego from dying to npc enemies

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>>724947284
>Back in my day
Hows that one hardcore full-loot pvp mmo doing? The mmo review fag did a video on it once

>>724947461
Yeah same. If someone attacks me its on sight from there out but if I'm chillin' you're chillin I'll even help you kill mobs or call you over to skin corpses.

>>724947602
Who?

I play single player games.

>>724947594
nah, the npc wont t-bag you or call you a shitter

>>724942240
Hacking faggots ruin everything basically.
Ping often sucks as well.
Classic example is Tarkov.
>Game is full of cheaters
>Youtuber makes video about how bad it is.
>Slav devs have to capitulate and add a token PvE mode because so many people are leaving the game now that the emperor has no clothes, (but they still keep the in game market around so that hackers can keep farming RMT)

If I want to pvp, I'll play dota or guilty gear. If I want to watch youtube while half engaged in something, I'll play an MMO or PoE. It's somewhat baffling to me that people get their player vs player fix in games that a player can have such overwhelming advantages. Like if in dota a player started the game with bkb, and everyone was cool with that because he's got like 2k hours played.

>>724947705
doesn't matter
as we've already seen in this thread, these people think only winning is fun and losing is terribly unfun and should never happen to MEEEEEEEE

>waiting for the boat in Darkwaters or whatever that shitty Night Elf zone is
>night elf sends me a duel request
>pass
>night elf sends me a second duel request
>pass and add to my ignore list
I'm on the PvE server and my name is blue not green
Fuck off

>>724947576
I think it was EVE online the devs were looking into player retention and they found new players were 50% more likely to stick with the game if they got ganked in their first week.

>>724947789
Fight him. It's not like you lose anything from a duel and you will get experience playing the game.

>>724947185
I love seeing gay keyboard turning kids that could barely remember a boss rotation piss and shit themselves when suddenly the enemy in front of them is another player that can think and react.
It's ok, I know you'd rather pick flowers and mine ore without threat of getting slapped around.

>>724942240
I don't play PvP because I don't want to learn how to fight X amount of other classes, I want to learn a boss.
I get why people enjoy it, but that's not for me anymore

>>724947879
Time is money friend

>>724947913
he says as he stands there and waits

>>724947882
lmao, is this really the thought process when I get ganked banging a mining node in wow? "Damn bro I fucking OWNED that NOOB, I'm so skilled!". Meanwhile I'm watching vtubers on another screen while stoned out my gourd.

>>724947913
Nigger you're playing mmos and posting on 4chan

>>724947748
when I wanted to pvp (harass and ruin weaker players day) I would play GTA online. I admit freely that I did this only because I get a thrill out of killing people who get upset and lack any truly meaningful way of resisting my advances.
Yes I could be sniped or killed with explosives. But I would just come back and run them over, or force the fight into environments that suited my strengths. Because I wanted to watch them speed off or quit.
I never tried to fight anyone higher level then me. I ran from people who could snipe or who used aircraft to level the field.
and I never tried to insist this was just "part of the game, bro" I was here to try and ruin your experience

>>724947712
Nikita announced that he has a "surprise" for cheaters in 1.0 :^)
>>724947769
the human factor is important here, they instantly imagine you as the worst human possible to cope away their skill issue

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>"Le epic hardcore CHAD PvP players are just too SKILLED and BASED for weak little PvE players to deal with!"
>Look up the games where this rivalry exists
>It's almost exclusively games where you can grind levels, gear or just get 5 of your buddies to make it so any PvP situation is entirely 1 sided in your favor
>There is zero actual skill involved in these matches at all
Fucking lmao. If you PvPers were actually good at video games you'd play competitive RTS, Arena FPS or fighting games. This shit is embarrassing.

>>724948175
i do play fighting games,was diamond in starcraft 2 and plat in assfaggots, your seemingly smug post stinks of cope. asimetric pvp is just fun, nothing to do with your delusions to justify your lack of skills

>>724948175
>your brain on pve
All of those games are played by pvp players because they are pvp games.

>>724948362
>Bro trust me I'm a GAYMER
You also practice martial arts, yeah? Big joe rogan grapple man, right?

>>724948480
i wouldn't say being plat in league is something to be proud of, i'm also very casual on fighting games becaus i'm not good at building the muscle memory required but i'm not the one imagining a 5 man grinding out of their minds to unfairly gank little old me, get better

>>724948480
That would have been a devastating burn in 2013.

>>724942240
The pvp is typically poorly implemented and designed so that it's not compelling but annoying. Generally the idea is that you counter and shut down as much as possible with a specific build or two, reducing your opponent's options and optimally hard-countering them. And then you make a huge nuisance out of yourself to slowly and painstakingly farm points while your targets generally do their best to avoid you or quickly shut you down in the same vein. Encounters are often short, but also incredibly time-wasting, and can also set you back quite a bit. I don't play games to get frustrated or waste hours upon hours doing mundane shit where the meta is mostly figured out and you've got little room to explore or actually "play" with your opponent. Do it properly or don't do it at all, you know? Shit game design is shit game design, no matter how much you might idealise the thought of competing with others.

>>724942240
>people cite a bunch of failed mmos for why pvp can never work
>gamedevs always cater to pve tards

People want to play good games and it is hard to balance pvp but it isnt impossible. Its a niche that if people do well they will succeed.

Foxhole needs a replacement because theres no MMO with good realm vs realm and at least this autistic ww2 truck sim has cool shit happen sometimes.

>>724948983
whats the. most common cope?
>its not hard just annoying
or
>i dont want to have to play the. meta

>>724949146
Both statements are true.

>>724949146
It's just boring, bro. It's not a game if it's not rewarding, it's a chore. Literally just make it fun instead of coping about how people don't want to participate in it.

>>724942240
>Still mad about Elden Ring
Lol

>>724942240
Everyone I met that hates PvP happens to be the biggest onions faggot loser

>>724943416
Marvel Rivals and Overwatch. There was a weird small push for pve in apex too until the season 5 quest came and left

oldschool runescape is unironically the only game that does it right

>have the entire most northern part of the map be a giant pvp zone
>put in high risk high reward pvm activities to attract pve players
>pvp players usually attack these players
>pve player bring anti-pkers out with them or anti pk themselves
>its a revolving cycle of risk vs reward and prioritizing either fighting or escaping

>>724949332
redman bad!!!!!1!!!!!

>>724949450
real males like to compete, hating pvp is low t

>>724949482
You are butthurt because people can play pve and have fun?

>>724949759
nobody is s butthurt buddy we point and laugh at carebears

PvE games shouldn’t include PvP and vice versa.
MMOs are committing the sin of trying to be two games in one which ends up satisfying neither side.
World of Warcraft is a PvE game with terrible PvP. Since WoW is considered the best MMO that must mean all MMO PvP is bad.
Every WoW player has fond memories of that one time they took part in open-world group PvP and secretely they wish more games were like that but PvP bad because you got ganked once.

>>724949854
i bet you think raids are high skill

>>724949540
yes

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Albion Online won.

>>724949950
>Literally who won

>>724942813
Used to play WoW a shitload back in the day. PvP was always a poorly balanced clusterfuck, especially in vanilla. But at least in vanilla, it was fun, and every class had something they could contribute, even if it was cheesy, or a smaller niche than some other class. Then they tried to make it "competitive", by introducing PvP specific gear and mechanics, which just made it into a really boring and extended grindfest, regardless of which classes were involved.

>>724950046
>he doesn't know

>>724950070
resilience was the most retarded system ever invented

>>724950075
>he knows

>>724950046
Albion is the most popular PvP sandbox MMORPG. Fact.

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This has been explained to you multiple times and you refuse to listen

>>724942240
It's because they buy the illusion the game gives them, that they are the badass who beats everyone. I see this constantly in bannerlord servers. The noobies genuinely think they are good at the game because they have 500 hours in single player and can feint bots. Then they can't shut up in chat about how everyone is "a tryhard". The funny thing is that these tryhards have less hours on the game than them.

>>724950379
Can't relate. I play a game with skill and a higher player base called bdo.

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>>724950652
Sorry, forgot pic

>>724949759
No? Where in my post did I convey that

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>>724946973
Vermintide 2
>whole game balancing revolves around it being PvE
>only a vocal minority and the retards at Fatshark actually want PvP
>everyone else tells them it's a bad idea
>developers spend years trying to make the PvP mode work internally
>restart the project multiple times
>finally release something in first beta
>it's complete ass and everyone tells them that
>they still keep working on it, release second beta
>they removed lots of things for "balance", but it's still complete ass, whole community tells them just to drop it
>PVP officially releases
>surprisingly, it still fucking sucks because the game is simply not made for it
>people play it for 1 or 2 weeks, eveyone hates it
>95% of the player base went back to play PvE after a couple of awful rounds
>the only people who are playing it for longer are the completionist autists, who want everything in this game (some cosmetics are locked behind PvP), but even they hate it and are rushing through it to get it over with
>release a single PvP update where they add another playable monster, no one cares because no one is playing
>nowadays the mode is completely dead
we told you from the start Fatshark but you wouldn't listen

>>724950696
p2w chink shit

>>724950951
Yeah, you're not wrong. Combat is still fun tho. Sieges are fun in skirmish teams.

>>724950918
Is this game still going? I remember it being good
Meaning the original pve game

PvP is only fun when it's on a fair playing field.
Otherwise it stops being "Player vs. Player" but "Player vs. Extremely Autistic Manchild That Wants To Farm Hatemail and Insults By Making Other Player Experiences Horrible".
A game "with PVP" is different from a game "made for PvP". I love playing fighting games and most shooters, but being forced into fights with people massively more geared-up than you in MMOs is why Wakfu died.

>>724951093
>boasts about his game being more skill oriented over an actually skill oriented game
>immediately concedes

>>724951423
Being able to navigate the world to have enough currency to pay 2 win is a skill. If you want to be a cunt we can go there.

>>724943929
Gatekeeping is based.

>>724951370
>the only person who could possibly kill me is some autistic loser with 5000 hours!
They're usually just regular people. You're making a strawman because you're butthurt and high on dunning kruger

>>724951181
yeah, they are still releasing new maps or even whole campaigns for it
for free
I think the next map comes out in late november

>>724948175
> If you PvPers were actually good at video games you'd play competitive RTS, Arena FPS or fighting games
Which said we dont?

>>724952014
Very nice

>>724950613
very nice paint strawman but offmeta fags often make clowns of themselves because they refuse to understand the meta or research why it works.
to play off meta you have to understand what makes a good build, i used to play top Viktor on league against tanks because i could abuse the safety the character offered to deny farm and outrade the whole game, but that required me to understand matchups and builds

>>724942240
cpu are better at the game

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>>724952073
Which indeed.

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>>724945552
>It's not REAL pvp unless I can shoot you in the back while you're wounded, and my three buddies in discord can warn me if you log or try to rally support.
>It's only real pvp if I can attack you with every advantage
NTA but this summarizes it best

After suffering about three hundred hours of Dune this year and seeing every nonsensical argument possible from these subhumans all while avoiding their constant braindead assassination attempts, I've learned the only real PvP is an unfair 4v1 fight where the ganking party gets to fully loot your corpse, ransack your base, and destroy your vehicles. Anything less than a 1ms TTK gank is carebear shit that panders to R*ddit, and you're killing the game if you want otherwise.

You want separate servers?
So the PvP players can fight likeminded HARDCORE PVP players instead of grouping up against pinatas?
Aww jeez dood you're splitting the playerbase, why are you trying to kill the game? Don't you know PvP is the life pulse that makes games exciting?
https://steamcharts.com/app/1172710

>>724951370
>A game "with PVP" is different from a game "made for PvP".
Bro no they're totally real PvP players despite not playing any real fighting games, competitive shooters, or anything with a semblance of real PvP support please bro you gotta keep playing bro just let them attack you one more time with their friends

>>724951809
Damn, you crying out 'strawman' made Wakfu suddenly revive and all of its issues disappear

>>724949313
>it's a chore
As opposed to the actual chores MMOs are full of like gathering materials or cooking?
Cope lmao

>>724952283
>So the PvP players can fight likeminded HARDCORE PVP players instead of grouping up against pinatas?
That's all I've ever wanted, but you're right what you described is real and is everywhere and is cringe.

The real fun is Wpvp on a permanentdeath server
if you gank low levels you get hunted down by high level players, every fight has a pressure, full immersion in the world

>>724952283
cool headcanon, did your schyzo brain ideate it?

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>play PvP game
>join multiplayer server
>kill others
>You have been kicked: No FFA PvP allowed
>join again and observe
>you're supposed to RP chat other people and challenge them to honorable 1v1 duels
>some people just chat and don't PvP whatsoever
wut

>>724952712
Name the game

>>724952073
good morning sir!

>>724951370
Back when wow classic released WOTLK I was leveling a new character through BC zones. Some dude at like level 72 kept flying around and killing everyone. I logged out and came back hours later, same guy, same level. Days later, same guy, same level. Completely ignoring the new content to mindlessly fly around harassing people.
It's mildly enjoyable for the high level person and makes the game unplayable for the low level, you're basically asking players to drive other players away from the game.

>>724952741
Jedi Outcast and Jedi Academy's most popular servers were glorified chatrooms that worked exactly like that. Some servers maybe had a specific area of the map where fighting was allowed, but for the most part people and especially veterans just chatted and duelled consensually.

>>724953082
Those are games with PvP not PvP games.
It would be like joining a GMOD Dark RP server and then being booted when you just murderhobo.

Honestly the reason I avoid PVP in certain games is the reason I tend to avoid multiplayer - unless a game's theming is VERY strong or tied into the mechanics, multiplayer games - PVE or PVP - tend to become their own thing divorced from the game's fantasy. When it's PVP, it's learning matchups and metas and stuff, but when it's PVE it's about sprinting through the level trying to burn through content as fast as possible to grind.
I find if I want to play a game with some degree of immersion, really pretend I'm in the world then it needs to be singleplayer. You just don't get the same vibes with other people, whether it's PVE or PVP.

>>724942240
What is this phenomenon where OP sucks penis every time he posts?

>>724943594
This.

>>724948046
No it's more like
>kek get fucked
I understand you probably aren't capable of securing a kill on another person but the dopamine hit is fantastic. Make your own fun. Is it really entertaining for you little babies to click in a fishing pole for an hour straight? Oh man, the exhilaration. The same gameplay loop as animal crossing.
The peak of pve is "don't stand in fire".
PvP is just more exciting and engaging. If you don't or can't get into the competition against another person, that's a you problem.
I've never met a person that enjoys pvp that wants to remove pve from the game. It is always onions flower pickers that cry about other players being too mean.

>>724947748
I don't think its hard to understand. The appeal of games like mmorpgs is often the increasing skill/power/equipment of your character. You eventually kill mobs faster or in new ways. Ok, simple to understand right? People like the growth of their characters.
Now just apply that to fighting other people. Yeah, I dunked on that guy because I'm better geared. The time and effort I put into my character made it stronger and now I'm gunna big dick you. Guess what? Someone will do it to me too. So I'll need to progress my character even more to be able to fight back better.
It isn't a wild concept.

>>724952747
i have a friend that plays warmane, a private wotlk server, he spends no less than 6 hours a day ganking lowbies in borean and dragonblight very often postung videos of him one shooting orcs and shit

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>>724953840

>>724942240
pvp is haram
creates a negative mindset towards your fellow man and causes division.
it stirs up butthurt retard emotions when you lose and even worse is that most will deny that they get like that, creating the opportunity for further delusions to grow in their mind.
pvprs are regularly talking about how they are not enjoying their time playing, whining for changes and whining that changes were made but not exactly how they wanted.
pvp also emphasizes a win at all costs view on life that leads to cheating, scamming, manipulating, scheming, and lying. due to the simplicity of man made games, the most effective battle strategies rely on feints, bluffs, and mind games, all of which lead you away from a truthful and honorable way of living, which is highly successful in the real world.
everyone knows the dipshits who scam on run escape and then went on to scam in real life too.
it is massive time waste and time sink in ways that pve just isnt, in pve you can mostly just walk away at any time, take month long breaks, it's on your own pace, but pvp you need to keep up with the latest gear and patch notes so you dont fall behind. there will always be some retard who has spent 16 hours a day practicing who will shit all over you, making your 3-4 hours a week miserable... so you up your hours more and more, you won and easily defeat the retard... and now you are the king of the hill retard. he was 12 b tw.

>>724953284
It was actually emergent behavior in this case, the dev's vision was for people to kill each other nonstop until the time limit is reached to declare a winner and start over again like in your average Quake FFA game, but these servers ended up becoming soft RP servers in Outcast and it stuck, there was literally no other RP feature or point to not fighting.
Imagine joining a Quake FFA server and everyone's just standing there using the chat, and you can go to someone and challenge them to a 1v1 which teleports you both to a parallel dimension inside the same server until one of you wins the duel and you're brought back to the map with everyone else.

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I unironically like collecting flowers. I have like twenty black lotuses.

PvP in PvE focused games is a mistake that should never be allowed to exist. So many times actual fun stuff has been removed from WoW because of PvP faggots shitting themselves in anger.

>>724954491
yapyapyap lots of words to cope for being bad

I was thinking about this recently, not quite from the same way but thinking similarly.
I was thinking about ARC raiders, there was some story about a player who got scammed out of gear by another player pretending to be a member of the devteam. And that kind of stuff is funny, and hey, I'm sure that happened.
But 99.99% of the game isn't going to be like that, it's going to be "put crosshair over other player head, click, loot".
Hunt: Showdown has a really cool setting, a bunch of cool old-timey weapons and RE-style monsters roaming around... but 80-90% of the game is creeping around trying not to get sniped or ganked from someone who knew the best place to hide in.
The meta becomes the game itself. Whatever the game IS, becomes less important than the meta. Hunt Showdown could be untextured boxes, the people who enjoy that kind of gameplay would still have fun.

>>724954491
>the story is a never ending humiliation ritual for Horde because Alliance players got ganked twenty years ago and won't move on
:'(

I once got banned from the WoW forum for 2 months because I spoiled Han Solo's death in the Force Awakens on release day.

>>724954679
Good.

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>>724951486

>>724954679
???
I've watched all three Star Wars movies and I don't remember Han dying in any of them

>>724954886
Not an argument. Get rekt be mad.

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Pve is better in pvepvp games you just get retards who are better equip than you with 1000 hours ganking you when your trying to get a herb or something. The only good game with both was Destiny and their pvp had a separate playlist and was just Halo multiplayer.

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>>724954941
Oh here, let me help with that

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>>724955194
>nooo leave me alone!
>don't attack me!
>I'm trying to pick flowers!

In reality the opposite is happening. Without PvP, there’s no reason to interact with other players. Everyone just chooses to ignore each other. Players can grief you even harder because the game doesn’t allow you to defend yourself. Pull up your cuck chair while I steal your resources. Switch to a different layer, channel, or shard like a coward.

>>724942240
usually because all we ask for is an offline version. Tarkov is a great example of this. It's a competent pve game on its own but there is no possible way to get progression on live with bot matches. Since BSG refused to add anything modders just made it themselves. Rust have PvE servers that affect nothing.

What is your specific example supposed to be about?

As far as MMO's are involved it tends to rot the community of the game. Strict pvp games are okay but there are some gotchas.
>team dependence
Games where you win or lose based on how your team coordinates are cancer that always boil down to everyone calling everyone else retarded and premades stomping randoms.
>grinding for items/levels
If the game allows autists and cheaters to reach lvl 999 and snipe you across the map with the maxed out watergun the game is effectively playable only on day 1.

>>724951707
time and place chud, time and place

I like both, I think PvE excels at the fun and cinematic part of gaming while PvP scratches the itch of wanting to kill my fellow man on occasion. It's a nice feeling knowing you're ruining someone else's day by being better than them in a fair competition. People who have egos over PvP in a fucking videogame are faggots though. Suggesting anyone who doesn't want to engage in it is "just bad" is honestly the lamest shit

In the case of warthunder, PVE would probably just be an upgrade to the game. CAS players, which probably make up half the warthunder userbase, are absolute fags who can't fight on the ground in ground warfare. The second a CAS player gets enough points he'll take off and proceed to sit in the air for the remainder of the game. Its too bad i'm not playing that, or if I am i'll make it an absolute hell for them.

The main thing I like in PvP is when someone is used to doing something over and over for their dopamine farm and you use the exact counter that stuffs it completely. The third or fourth time they try it after it doesn't work is as close to I get to sadism.

Best part of online fighting games which are otherwise complete dogshit

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>>724954562
>>724944203
>you dont like my game? you must be le bad
I'm not playing your terrible game mode, no matter how hard you try

>>724942240
>playing, enjoying game
>and here goes Timmy, clinically online cybersport tryhard with tons of free time to edge his gaming skill due to parents that pay for all his shit
>Timmy teleports behind you and snaps your neck
>writes "git gud" in chat
>that repeats every time you play
The only reason of this happening is that Timmy doesnt want to play games with high learning curve. Little nigger learns the basics and then perfects them to the point that it starts to ruin the fun. He won't go play fighting games, or Dwarf Fortress, oh no no no, he will dominate shooters or slashers like a little bitch he is.

>>724953763
>It is always onions flower pickers that cry about other players being too mean.
Bro I'm not crying, I honestly just find it funny that for you this was some massive victory, but for me it was Shishiro Botan's New Outfit Reveal Stream while something entirely unimportant happened on my other monitor.

>>724954781
I also once got banned from the WoW forum for 1 month because I called Bobby Kotick a dirty jew.

>>724953763
Isn't it more fun to be better than another human than be more geared than them? If I beat you in a fighting game ft10 I am better than you at this game, heart and soul. If you beat me in wow? Gear, matchup, numbers, level, how much I actually cared. Too many factors.

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MMO pvpers are mentally unstable subhumans and I like it when I see the fun ripped out of their hands.

>>724957209
Who ganked you?

>>724957209
Based

>>724957337
>>724957401
The duality of mankind

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>>724957337
just ganked a dude in warmane thats been ganking low levels in boren tundra for the past few weeks or month now actually.

I should have saved the responses I got.

>>724957209
>MMO pvpers
MMO players*

I WILL play off-meta
I WILL pvp all the time as an opportunistic class
I WILL force interactions, whether it be by ally or enemy
I WILL understand that i'm just playing a video game and that i should be fucking around
I WILL have infinitely more fun than you
Simple as

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>>724942240
>What is this phenomenon where players join a game with PvP then try and bully the devs into removing PvP entirely so they can play some PvE hugbox?
Niggercattledom. Hardly any dev can resist the allure of FIAT, so they turn into complete retards and start catering to these subhuman locausts, ignoring the fact that they cannot ever be retained, as their hobby and interest isn't gaming, but consumption. Devs always get the player-and customerbase that they deserve, abd that mimic their personality -- it's an comfortable truth, that whoever controls an environment/relationship shapes anyone therein in their image. If you're weak-willed, competitively obedient faggot and terminally domesticated debtcattle, you'll attract and eventually cater to weak-willed, competitively obedient faggots and terminally domesticated debtcattle.

>>724951370
>NOOOO I GOT KILLED IN A GAME WHERE THERE IS NO CONSEQUENCE TO DEATH ARGHHHH MY EXPM MY ADDONS SAY I'M BEHIND ON THE CURVE AHHHH

>>724942240
>What is this phenomenon where players join a game with PvP then try and bully the devs into removing PvP entirely so they can play some PvE hugbox?
It's so common and weird. There's a certain subspecies of carebear who just can't shut the fuck up about wishing the game was more PvE focused.
Even in a game like albion where the entire selling point of the game is full-loot PvP, there will be these lost retards thinking you're 'le bad' for killing and looting them.

>>724957209
The irony in this is UNBELIEVABLE

Players in real PvP MMORPGs like EVE or Albion Online are usually pretty chill. The real PvP psychopaths play PvE MMOs like World of Warcraft where even the slightest power difference can make you practically immortal.
In Albion or EVE, a veteran with $500 worth of gear can still lose to a new player who just finished the tutorial.

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>>724957754
>uncomfortable truth*
Pardon me.

>>724957474
Man i love hatemail. There is nothing more gratifying than getting flooded with nothing but seethe whispers.

I gank IRL and ingame
Twow goblin rogue
OSRS dclaw rusher

blow me

>>724957754
I'm not reading all that

>>724942240
>play PvE mode in a game
>enjoy it
>minmax
>for some reason (dailies, playlists, season pass) forced to play PvP mode
>hate it
>ask devs to fuck off with it
>OH THAT MEANS YOU HATE THAT PVP EXISTS
No fuck you, keep your sweaty shit I just want to have fun.

>>724957862
*Slaps you* Shut the fuck up RETARD

>>724958102
You have the impulse control of a vanta-black subsaharan nigger and the wit of a dead, rotting fish.

>>724958360
What kind of fish rots alive? your mom

>>724958360
Oh yeah? Well you're a vestigial, see I can make up words too.

PVP is fun, I like when a simple gank turns into a whole war between clans

Most people that bitch here about ganking and shit are talking about WoW, a game where you do not lose anything on a player death.
Rather than form groups, go to a different area or just take a break until the guy is gone or preoccupied, they just sit there and take it and complain.
Modern people are so indolent and minor discomfort averse that it is comical.

>>724953840
human female warlock?

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>What kind of fish rots alive? your mom
Ba-dum-ts. On a serious note:
Did you know that troonship (and other sexual degeneracy) can also be observed in nature, namely in cases of severe parasitosis (e.g.: Sacculina Carcini)?
>https://youtube.com/watch?v=rQdfBfqHnLs

>>724958482
>I can make up words too.
Anon, I ...

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>>724944987
>no "trick"
PvP is at least 50% tricks in any game with an active scene, numbskull
>You actually have to be better than another human being
Yes we should fill our government with top PvPers since they are clearly prime human specimens and not a bunch of no-lifes who play for 11 hours every day

>>724958470
>>724958889
Pardon me, I didn't mean to withhold the (You).

>>724958797
U mad?

Oh boy I can't wait to play a PvP game where I'm encouraged to run around completing tasks and objectives for 20-30 minutes at a time only to die to some retard sitting in a bush since min 3 invalidating all my progress :)))) How fun

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>724958889
>spoiler
no (You) for you because you deprived me of mine

dick

>>724952308
I don't play MMOs because I'm not gay. I'm sorry your MtF "GF" doesn't want to pvp with you, I guess. Maybe you can settle for a different kind of "pvp" by asking him to frot with you.

>>724958984
Oh boy, I'm so hungry I can eat an ocktorock!

>>724958981
Not in particular.

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>>724959043
A honest mistake.

>>724958797
>wow
>until the guy is done
lol, lmao

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>>724957754
i agree with your sentiment
but you type like an insufferable faggot

>competitively obedient
i suggest you use real words as much as possible before blurting out vaguely elitist sounding nonsense
using metaphors to express feelings can be fine but wtf does that even mean dude

>>724942240
>I never see this the other way around
i'm always surprised to see people treat souls as a mainly pvp game
it's definately an outlier in terms of mp systems but if des and das released without any mp functionality they would still be appealing to me
people who treat it as "the honourable duel game of skill" seem strange to me because they aren't even really catered to in any way

power to them finding their own fun with the games though

>>724942240
Nobody is asking for PvP to be removed. PvP can stay, just add some PvE for when people want to relax and play offline against bots.

>>724959421
>but wtf does that even mean dude
Have you somehow dodged the telemarketing gayop between 2020-2024? How would you describe the behaviour displayed by the general population?

>>724949064
the more "balanced" pvp gets the more boring it gets.

>>724959789
Just cut out the middle man and go punch toddles in the throat it's clearly the only reason you engage.

>>724959789
It also stops being fun as soon as a meta is established. The first week or so post release is always the window of fun of any game with pvp because people are still figuring shit out and having fun.

>>724942714
The most fun I had in BDO was when I was walking to a quest and out of nowhere someone ran me over with their horse over and over until I died. So no PVP is fun and you're just gay and lame

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>then try and bully the devs into removing PvP entirely

>>724960308
Dune Awakening.
New Worlds is another good example.

>>724955514
>you're a coward if you don't put up with my inane attempts to annoy you

>>724942240
>People want to support game but want nothing to do with you
>Proceed to cry like a Karen about nobody liking you and your bullshit
Shut up you crying faggots if someone is paying for something it should come with the option to not deal with any of you

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>>724943594
>most people get a bruised ego from dying to an actual person
You can tell this is true when people cry about PvP or insist they just play for fun because they can literally never admit to losing without insulting the other person and acting like they must put absurd time, effort, and energy into the game to beat them.

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>>724946217
>Rarely ever think anybody else is cheating even in high MMR matches
>Often get accused of cheating myself, particularly when I play games without SBMM or in casual modes, over the most mundane things
>Come here and see people on this board notoriously full of casuals that are bad at video games insisting all their matches have cheaters
Really makes me think.

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People hating pvp because they lose is basically sour grapes. Also grapes are toxic to foxes and can cause them kidney failure but don't tell the winners that!

>>724942240
as a PvE fan, ive never joined a PvP game with this mindset, because i dont like PvP to begin with, so it seems stupid to go into it, and then ask for changes.

>>724958913
Holy projection

>>724961879
its only a loss if you had a chance of a win, otherwise its just an annoyance.

>>724961879
Holy projection

>>724946586
people let getting burgh'd color the entire souls pvp scene and write it off. ds3 in particular the premier twink gear is the prisoner chain and you can get that before you fight vordt. it's become such a non issue. the fact people are still complaining about it when you have to summon another player to even be invaded in er speaks volumes.

In MMOs PvP is necessary as a balancing mechanism to prevent players from exploiting non-violent methods to dominate or frustrate others. Removing PvP would not create peace but instead encourage griefing without consequence.
There is nothing more cucked than channel hopping because someone took your spot.

>>724963467
>you're not going to stay and tolerate my annoying presence? y-you're c-cucked!

>>724964131
Yes because you're the one that had to leave. You were forced to do so because you were being dominated by a better gamer.

>>724964925
its fantasies like this that make no one want to "pvp" with you.

I like that the butthurt for pvp mmos has shifted from "omg corpse camp" to "ahhhh I got hacked one time in my life save me niggerman!" because most games have solved for corpse camping and give you lots of ways to juke gankers that out level you even. additionally ganking doesn't even really happen anymore because there's no reward in it and people are extremely optimized with their MMO gaming time these days.

Does anyone want to read my Sonic fanfic?

>>724965621
I speak for everyone here when i say yes to that.

>>724947268
>>724947461
God I miss those days.
>questing in barrens on my alt
>some lvl 80 rogue pops up and one shots me
>repeat this couple times
>ask guildies for help and they wreck his shitter
>more alliance people start showing up
>more of my guildies start showing up
>guildies start rallying more people in global chat for world pvp
>hop onto my main char to help out and forget about questing
>all hell breaks loose as barrens becomes a literal war zone
Best moment I had with WoW.

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>>724943416
dayz
everyone cries for harder survival and not to KOS (kill on sight) all the biggest dayz youtubers are scum sucking sycophants who never upload pvp and just want to essentially role play, i guess to keep the game friendly to new players because they exist getting paid parasitically off the games growth so they propagandize in every way possible trying to make the game more "accessible"

fucking faggots talk a big game about making survival mechanics harder, but all it does it shorten the timers on you before you have to not pvp and go do some monotonous chore, fetching water and food isnt hard its just time consuming and it gets worse every year with that game

fucking pussies demand less pvp more survival and nerfing weapon spawns .... but nobody plays dayz for the fishing so what the fuck?!

>>724942240
Ive always had more fun co-op than fighting my bros

>>724966120
https://www.wattpad.com/619615128-obama-x-sonic-michellelel-obama-mad

>>724942240
yeah
the pvper rapes the pver when it barks

>>724967203
As it is in nature. The herbivores get eaten.

>>724947913
Based, Keep your feet on the ground.

>>724942240
The main game is 99.99999999% of the time mainly PvE already and PvP exists just for griefing.

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>>724942240
member when they had to create an entire seamless coop mod for elden ring, because red man bad. the only game series in existence to have that mechanic, and even that had to be killed.

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Azul is a miracle of the Universe!

>>724944456
God, I remember using Fluid Aura as a WHM to knock people off from up there

>>724966186
This was routine in vanilla. Fights at ratchet would last half a day or big back and forth fights between tarren mill and south shore.
Sometimes gadgetzan would be a warzone where anywhere outside guard aggro range was death

>>724968145
Why Tarren Mill? I had to walk all the way from the Loch zone to get there as an Alliance because my Rogue trainer told me to, what reason do Alliance players have to go out of their way and visit a Horde leveling zone?

>>724944159
>Its simple. Winning is fun. Losing is not. Ganking is a 1 way fun transfer.
Yeah, and some times you are on the receiving end, and it is stupid, hence why some people don't like open world pvp, because it is usually less player vs player and more player slaughters clearly weaker player, with no real fight or challenge.
If all you are doing is running around with your decked out char killin weaker players, your way of having fun isn't really any less sad than doing nothing but daily checklists.
>>724943594
>i'm dogshit at the game and get frustrated at getting shit on by more skilled players
Weird how I enjoy fair pvp even if I lose sometimes, often even, but hate open world pvp because it is rarely about losing/winning fair and square but more about completely uneven fights, where skill in fact doesn't matter. You are an Idiot if you think otherwise.

>>724960210
>the most fun I've had was when I got btfo and died like a bitch
You're just a boring masochist

I've been playing videogames for long enough that I know that I should just avoid PVP games entirely. Every time I touch PVP or any competitive thing like that I just get stressed and angry.
I usually leave games like that well enough alone, the problem only comes about when one of the few/only games that lets you do [X] is a PVP game.
>Sea of Thieves: cool first person immersive pirate game... have to play PVP to do the cool stuff and then get ganked after you find buried treasure because you're playing on your own and easy pickings
>War Thunder: want to play with tanks, and not have to grapple with an extreme grognard sim? Cool, get in the bucket and have an aneurysm

Extraction shooters as a genre have this, but there's been at least a couple of games to change that. HOLE is probably the best extraction shooter I've played and it's purely singleplayer.

>>724943610
this.
The problem with PvP is everyone immediately gets hyper competitive and starts employing metas that aren’t fun for either side. Camping, bagging, tunneling, there’s an “-ing” for every PvP game and if you ask the playerbase half of them will say that their respecting “-ing” is actively ruining the game

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pvp in wow started with that blonde zombie didn't it

>>724971561
The pvp started all the way back in Warcraft 1 between orcs and humans

>>724964925
Sometimes it isnt the better gamer and its just the class that can pull the fastest. Also fuck druids

is there a mspaint version of
>pve at level 1: fighting zombies and spiders
>pve at 20: fighting paladins and pirates
>pve at 40: fighting dragons and liches
>pve at 60: fighting giant two headed dogs that are also on fire
>pve at tier 1: fighting hordes of elementals and a giant tornado of flame with a face and hammer bigger than any one party member
etc etc, and the pvp version is just the same two dipshits smacking eachother with progressively bigger penises on their shoulders

>>724942240
>I never see this the other way around.
Dark souls

Mmo pvp was perfected by the battle royale.

Sometimes you get to be the stomper
Sometimes your stomped.
Sometimes you get to be the underdog and pull out ahead.

Entire experiance takes less then an hour.

>>724972698
>pve at level 1: kill mobs and collect their asses
>pve at 20: kill mobs and collect their asses
>pve at 40: kill mobs and collect their asses
>pve at 60: kill mobs and collect their asses
>pve at tier 1: kill mobs and collect their asses i a 40man raid
PvP is a lot more interesting to me as the situations you're getting into are a lot more varied and winning is often a lot more challenging and rewarding.

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the crazy thing about PvP MMOs is the more PvP-centric the MMO is, the more you will get PvE carebear types who absolutely lose their minds when you kill them

i remember playing HellMOO, an absolute full-loot MMO where you can be killed by anyone anywhere at any time, and furthermore they can also break into your personal stash/apartment and steal all your items (if you haven't been clever enough about laying traps and fake apartments, doing opsec, etc...)

this game attracted tons of carebears. why? they were constantly being raped (literally - the game had rape as a PvP mechanic) and whining, but wouldn't quit and play a PvE MMO. they just stayed and whined nonstop for the game to have PvP removed.

mental illness i think

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>>724973209
inflate asuka

>>724943416
arc raiders, you tell them a viable alternative pve extraction shooter, forever winter and they complain that it's shit with no content (it is, but that's exactly what they're asking for)

>>724944203
Armor in Tarkov is very strong, but most of the difference between an S-tier and a D-tier player is just basic skill at shooters.
Your standard early game AK is barely worse than a late season riced out SCAR if you're fundamentally good at shooters.
This is different from RPGs where player skill is heavily filtered through stats and build quality.

>>724943416
Elden Ring has done everything it could to make invading miserable compared to previous Souls games.

>>724943180
This, pvp fags don't want to have fun fights, they want to ambush and stomp noobs. That's why pvp fags are either the "invisible rogues" or hordes of gorilla niggers

>>724943610
>claim to be honorable duelists
Strawman.

>>724950918
yeah i cant imagine the vermintide specials working well when controlled by humans. they dont have the same quick disablers or map design for ambushes like left 4 dead has. it would be more interesting if the human controlled enemies were buffed stormvermin and chaos warriors instead.

>>724973180
You needed to be reductive, he didn’t.

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>>724942240
mann vs machine was the worst update in the history of tf2

>>724973565
This is bullshit, pvpers are always chasing that moment where the odds are against them but they still manage to come out on top, the game is at its most fun when you pull of impressive feats of skill. The ones going after low level payers are a minority in my experience.
What's great about rogue is that you have a lot of crowd control and thus can take out bigger groups of players if you use it well, they're good for farming clips.

>>724974129
I'm not really, 90% of the time you're fighting the same enemy with a different level and skin. Doesn't matter if they're pigs or dragons, the gameplay is the same. And most of the time you're collecting something from them for a quest (asses).

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>gankers when you have a chance of fighting back

>>724974537
You’re still being hyperbolic, and even so, 10% variation is infinitely superior to 0%

>>724968820
Southshore.

I like it when everyone is cool with each other and gives compliments and says gg after the match.

>>724973565
The only people that say this are faggot pussy retarded noobs that only ever get ambushed and stomped lol

>>724970064
>masochist
Kek I know you get this a lot. But youre a stupid nigger

>>724976860
>you said it was gg
>but it wasn’t
>it was bg

>>724977049
Can I have your concession if he doesn’t want it?

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>>724942240
>I never see this the other way around.
aight nigga

>>724976730
No amounts of PvE mobs can ever compare to even a single player, the entire leveling experience is mindless button mashing where I'm totally checked out watching shows or something on my second monitor. The only times I ever have to concentrate about the game is when a player jumps me.

Devs need to pick a side (PvP or PvE) and tell the other side to fuck off.

PvE games don't survive past a month or two even if they're very well-made (see Helldivers) because you can only make "fight against bots designed to lose to you" so interesting.

>>724959716
>Have you somehow dodged the telemarketing gayop between 2020-2024?
Apparently so.

>>724978065
How is WoW still around after 20 years? Don't say PvP. Not even 1% of the playerbase cares about that.

>PVP game
>optional bots in case i wanna dick around casually or if i want to play when my internet is out for whatever reason
thats all i fucking want

>>724978379
The most popular realms of Classic WoW are pvp servers, pvp players don't disappear just because they replaced pve and pvp servers with a warmode toggle in retail.

>>724977745
The single player wow thing was pretty eye-opening as the bots would always play completely optimally and the “ugh so slow and boring” trash mobs would just evaporate. Meaning the reason clearing trash took so long was because of the pvp-tards, such as yourself, doing the bare minimum.

>>724978970
They're evaporating because you're essentially playing a 5man multiboxer where you would otherwise be playing alone on a real server.

>>724942240
Never mind that
>Game has PvE and PvP servers
>People keep rolling on PvP servers and then cry that people are killing them
Why does THIS keep happening?

>>724979253
They’re evaporating because the bots don’t fall into a cycle of “ugh this is soooo booooring” and slack off causing a progressive spiral of everything taking longer than it should causing more people to get bored, and slack off, etc.

Of course you need an iq over 90 to map a concept like this. Brings to mind groups like death and taxes who’d get world firsts raiding 2-3 hours a night

>>724979550
It's virtually impossible to fuck up pressing a couple of buttons in rapid succession, unless you count piss breaks and eating to be slacking off. Leveling shouldn't require more than 10% of your brainpower, otherwise there is something wrong with you.

>>724979882
So how many pve world firsts were you a part of?

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...

>>724945931
>why do people who like emergent and organic PVP prefer that over tournament titles

>>724980085
None because I'm not a poopsocking retard that takes pve seriously, having nax on farm is good enough to get the gear for pvp.

>>724942240
Most of the time games that have PvP but are not entirely built and balanced around it have terrible PvP. I can understand the PvE crowd wanting PvP to be removed, so the game can focus all resources into the PvE modes.

Don't get me wrong, i love some PvP action, but it's only good when the game is entirely a PvP one.

>>724979882
And by the way, I’m talking endgame vanilla/bc/wotlk world of world raids, not leveling. Not sure what caused you to think otherwise. A guy from my guild ended up ditching us for death and taxes and I never understood why until I played with bots. 39 blue geared bots as if molten core had just opened, ripping through trash and most bosses like butter. No damage mods or cheats. All because they didn’t slack off.

>>724980164
Demon's Souls had the perfect PvP setup. Dark Souls casualized it and DS2 fixed it then DS3 ruined it again. But worse, Elden Ring killed it outright. The redman is a necessary evil and I say this as a pvefag.

>>724980386
Bro, again, death and taxes, who got tons of world firsts didn’t “poop sock.” They just didn’t slack. It was the shitters who had to “poop sock” because half their raid was auto-attacking or just afk

>>724980637
They definitely poopsocked their leveling phase to get into those raids before everyone else
>who’d get world firsts raiding 2-3 hours a night
How are they raiding 2-3 hours a night when there are weekly locks? No wonder they're ahead.

>>724980386
Furthermore, “not taking pve seriously” means you’re not taking your guild’s time seriously. Which means you’re just painting yourself as one of the slackers holding your guild back, making everything take longer than it should.

>>724980870
It's a pvp guild, retard.

>>724980794
… did you forget that a “weekly lock” just meant if you killed a boss, that boss would stay dead for the week? So next raid you kill the next boss?

And most of the vanilla world first guys played beta, thus knew where to go how how to stay ahead of the rest of the players, to not waste much time with the early instances, so as not to get bogged down.

But hey, you’re not retarded, so you knew this, right?

>>724981000
>muh pvp guild had naxx on farm
It really is fun to talk to you 90iq pvpers

>>724981224
You really think you're some 200iq badass for beating those vanilla raids don't you, that's pretty funny. Pvp players face bigger challenges in their sleep.

>>724981167
>did you forget that a “weekly lock” just meant if you killed a boss, that boss would stay dead for the week? So next raid you kill the next boss?
No that's what I'm telling you, I even made a joke about it cause I assumed you made a spelling error but it seems like you just can't comprehend the words.