It's a bad sequel.
How?>Better campaign missions>Better worldbuilding>Better narrative>Better core gameplay>Better MP maps>Better soundtrackOnly thing it does worse is weapon balance and arguably atmosphere
You are your parents bad sequel.
>>724982297It's also unfinished
>>724982441loathsome little guns.
>>724982297It insists on itself
It's better than you realize, but not as good as it should be.
>>724981712>slowslopHalo was never good.
>Halo CE has the best AR in the entire franchise>and the best pistol>and the best shotgun>and the best plasma rifle>and the best plasma pistolon one hand i'm impressed they got so much right in their first game, but on the other i'm mad at how it's still undefeated in some aspects despite being a quarter of a century old. What's so fucking hard about making a fun shotgun?
>>724981712>Halo 1 >The people on the Pillar of Autumn went out of their way to prevent the Covenant from finding Earth >Halo 2>The Covenant found Earth anyway
It only flopped on the final level & ending. Other than that it's great.
>>724983026>ARIncorrect, 5 and Infinite are better in almost every metric, and arguably even 4 and Reach's are better in specific regards>Pistol5 and Infinite's gives it competition, the H5 Magnum is excellent and the Sidekick is damn good>ShotgunCorrect, unless we're counting the Infinite Mutilator >Plasma RifleH5's Brute Plasma Rifle gives it competition>Plasma PistolCorrect
>>724983026I don't like the CE shotgun honestly, it feels very inconsistent. The H2 and H3 shotguns may not have much range but if you're in 1-tap range you know you'll get it.
>>724982297It's not as fun to play. The enemy AI is worse, so are the weapons.
Halo 3 was the best one. Halo 2 was cool because you could do clans and stuff like BXR made the game have a bit more depth. Halo 1 was awesome
>>724981712It had plenty of good ideas. The problem was that they refused to just commit to the idea of the invasion of earth.Get rid of the arbiter missions, get rid of all of the stuff on/around delta halo and you have the basis for a solid sequel to CE.ODST did this well, but it was still just a shadow of what Halo 2 could have and should have been.
>>724982297>Better campaign missionsBetter linear ones but no exploration ones>Better worldbuildingtoo bad all the world building is done in the first few minutes in the arbiter introduction and then a few minutes more when you meet gravemind, then it's done and there's nothing noteworthy in the rest of the game or even all of halo 3, theres one more forerunner superstructure and that's it. I didn't even like the new things they brought forward in 2. The arbiter is cool and that's it.>Better narrativeNo. It's hard to compete with the flood hammer drop of CE but halo 2 isn't anything special or interesting. Nobody replaced keyes in screen presence. >Better core gameplayI'll give you this one but the SMG is a lame replacement for the AR and the BR is not a fun weapon and it's terrible that it became so important in the game. It's a long range fart gun that makes you spam right trigger. Every weapon is more fun than the BR and only the carbine approaches it in shittyness.>Better MP mapsHalo 2 does have better multiplayer unless you were a grenade and pistol friend group in that case they absolutely fucked you, and it wasn't even necessary. They could've left the magnum in custom games. Now let me tell you what sucks though. Spawning in coag with the smg with 90% chance you'll be killed by ghost or guy with a BR before you can react. That's a core part of the MP experience and it massively blemishes the game for me. Eventually they just had to give you a BR to fix it and now it's BR the game.>Better soundtrackNo. CE is all original, almost all banger tracks. Halo 2 reuses so much material and motifs, and adds piano and electric guitar and is more cliched sounding. It's still a great soundtrack but the accomplishment is way less.
>>724984330I dont know if the scarab counts as world building but it was also cool, just wanted to throw this piece of shit sequel any bone I could.
>>724982297>>Better narrative>>Better campaign missionsmaybe if we remove the covenant missions
>>724982441I still remember the E3 demo where people went fucking nuts over the dual wield reveal. simpler, better times
>>724984180Well, the third act that got cut was supposed to return and finish on the Earth invasion. Turns out the title screen was supposed to foreshadow the final battle the entire time to some degree.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4lL6RYrYc4U
>>724983629No way played Halo 5 or Infinite those don't count.
>>724984535It was vehicle jacking that got me so hyped
>>724981712The covenant missions were fucking awful. Nobody wanted to play as a gay elite. The marketing was entirely hammering home the point that the covenant were attacking Earth. And guess what? We only get ONE FUCKING MISSION on Earth!
>>724982770
>>724982297I didn't grow up on Halo 2 so I don't have nostalgia glasses like many do.>Better campaign missionsAlmost 30% of the campaign, 4 of 14, is just pure filler trash. I don't have a problem with the Arbiter's story, but the missions are just shit.>The Arbiter>The Oracle>Sacred Icon>Quarantine Zonepeople shit on Cortana and The Library, but those are not even fucking close to being as bad nor as repetitive.>Better core gameplayeh. Everything feels worse imo. The SMG was not a good replacement for the assault rifle. The BR basically replaced the CE pistol. Halo 3 fixed a lot of these issues by making the magnum feel punchier again.>better soundtrackyes and no. Halo CE was overall better, but I love the feeling of dread and hopelessness that Halo 2 introduces. It doesn't quite match the tone but I still fucking loved it. Halo 3 basically perfected everything after.
>>724985405reminder that the 2 magnum isn't supposed to be a shit-pusher, it's a headshot machine. the ODST magnum is the same gun with a scope functionally, but that scope brings out the headshot capabilities that the 2 original was not great at. meanwhile the 3 magnum sounds and animates better, but it's actually the worse weapon simply overall.
>>724985986guns "feeling" fun have such a huge impact on gameplay, regardless of stats. Modern Warfare is such a good example of that, even though a lot of the animations are over-indulged. It's fun as fuck.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MVwn5zZAwQFor some reason, halo 2 guns just feel so rigid compared to CE. It feels like a fan-made mod or something. The BR and sniper feels like holding a fucking 2x4 pea shooter. It was unfinished.
To a bad game.
>>724986307Halo 2's animations all feel weightless.
>>724982297>Better campaign missionsWell they're not composed entirely of samey-looking corridors, so they suck SLIGHTLY less shit, but they still suck shit>Better worldbuilding>Better narrativeNobody played these games for the story>Better MP mapsAt least half of them are reused from the first game>Better core gameplayIf by that you mean "somehow made the weapons even worse" then sure.>Better soundtrackIt's as forgettable as the first game's>>724982441>Introduce dual-wielding>Make dual-wielded guns weaker for "balance", thus defeating the entire point of including it in the first placeIt takes a special kind of retard to design a game like this
>>724983026The AR is a fucking BB gun in the first game
>>724982770>implying fastslop is good
>>724986514Each bullet is kinda weak, but it shits out 60 of them in 4 seconds.
Halo CE is the only good game in the franchise.
>>724986514People keep underestimating the point of the bullet weapons in the early games. They're awful at shredding shields on Heroic and Legendary, but mince health like a hot knife through butter. Halo 2 is absolutely fuckbonkers broken for balance, which doesn't help matters, but the MA5B is definitely a Grunt and Jackal shredder in CE as well as pretty decent against Flood, whereas it faltered against Elites. Combine that with its ridiculous spread that made it fall off at mid to long range and it really was just an SMG in rifle format. In an intended balance, the H2 Magnum and SMG would've functionally been the same shit with headshot bonuses for the former, but the lack of a balance pass ended up breaking its intentions. There's a reason why the Plasma Pistol + Magnum noob combo was a genuine threat in H2MP, never mind akimbo Magnums, enough so that Bungie actually nerfed the Magnum to cut that off.
>>724981712I liked it better than the first and I liked 3 better than 2.
>>724986376Yeah? well, you’ve never lifted a weight so what would you know?
>>724982297>Better campaign missionsThat's a toss up, the first two missions were great on Halo 2, but then you got the Arbiter and it doesn't really have anything iconic after that other than maybe flying on the banshees. CE may have been repetitive, but the missions were all more memorable.>Better worldbuilding>Better narrativeHard no on all of those, Halo 1 was more focused on its premise and had a surprise twist, Halo 2 tried to be a huge space opera but it lacked focus and tried telling too many sides at once. Master Chief was almost a side character in the story of the Arbiter, the Covenant schism, the Gravemind, they find another Halo, Guilty Spark is for some reason there, King Monkey tries activating the new Halo, and while all that happens the Covenant invaded Earth off screen.>Better soundtrackArguable, I liked CE more. 2 was using some licensed music and didn't have many memorable pieces other than that. Even the OST had to be cut into pieces.>Better core gameplayIt gave you regenerated health (CE still required you to get health packs to heal up, only your shield regenerated) and fucked up weapon balance.
>>724981712It's a 10/10 departure from the last game as all the Bungie Halo's were(sans ODST of course).
>>724983026>What's so fucking hard about making a fun shotgun?Every game makes Shotguns do 0 damage unless you fire them point blank. CE shotgun is useful even at a medium distance and it can reload per bullet. That's really all it does special. It's no different from the Shotguns in Doom in that regard.The reason it really shines is because Flood is weak to weapons that can shred their bodies, and the Shotgun is especially good at that, especially since you always meet them in closed spaces.So the CE shotgun shines 50% because it isn't gimped in range for balance, and 50% because enemy/map design favoring it.
>>724984330>Nobody replaced keyes in screen presence.I'd argue that Johnson has some more cool scenes in 2 but yeah it doesn't make up for the lack of Keyes.
>>724987765>CE may have been repetitive, but the missions were all more memorable.They're more memorable because you play them all twice.
>>724987180mincing health with the AR is completely useless because one pistol headshot to shieldless enemies kills them. Making the AR a good shield stripper like in 3 and Infinite was the right call.
>>724984804speak for yourself. Fighting with Elites and Hunters and the Covenant Civil War was pure kino
>>724988406If anything that just says against the CE Magnum in how it can overshadow so many roles. Though not everyone carries the Magnum 24/7 in campaign.
>>724988406The AR could penetrate in H1, so it was better to mow down groups.
>>724988758You get enough ammo for the thing to use it for practically the entire game. I don't understand the hate CEfags have for the BR when the Magnum is way more monstrous. I think Reach handled the magnum best in that it was strong, but overclassed by the resident precision weapon.
>>724989058Enemies in Halo 2 are way more overtuned to where you basically need to use the BR or Carbine the entire game on anything higher than Normal. It also doesn't feel nearly as good to use because it's weaker and the animations suck.
>>724982441Based SMG chad. Also blue elites are pussies
>>724986437>Make dual-wielded guns weaker for "balance", thus defeating the entire point of including it in the first placedual wielding shreds elites quicker than the AR ever did
>>724981712I like it.
>>724989203>It also doesn't feel nearly as good to use because it's weaker and the animations suck.I don't know about that one. Nailing a 4-shot kill or a noob combo feels orgasmic just like the magnum.
>>724989203see>>724982441>>724989262
>>724989407>playing on easy
Why does nobody like the Halo 3 AR? At least it was actually useful beyond Normal difficulty
>>724982297>Better campaign missionsStructurally yes. Much better objective variety, but I find myself replaying CE more. >Better worldbuilding>Better narrativeBoth true. I enjoyed seeing things from the Covenant's perspective. Halo 2 was very much Arbiter's story which is why I think a lot of people disconnected with it. >Better core gameplayThat I'm mixed on. I liked the addition of vehicle boarding and dual wielding, but I felt there were a lot of redundant weapons added to the roster. Enemy balancing also felt pretty bad on higher difficulties, especially with shielded flood, Brutes and Drones. >Better MP mapsAlso agree. Halo 2 has the best mutliplayer maps in the franchise. Only Halo 3 comes close. But I do miss some of the wacky designed maps like Chiron TL-34 and Boarding Action. >Better soundtrackAbsolutely. Halo 2's soundtrack in my opinion is the peak of the series.Overall I thought it was a fantastic sequel.
>>724989592cope
>>724988398>They're more memorable because you play them all twice.You only play three maps twice IIRC, one has you running a different route half the time and completely different enemy placements on the other, the second has half the level cut up because the covenant ship is now derelict, and the third is a massively expanded version of the first map so hardly even qualifies as the same stage.so at best you have 1 level you have to play twice, with two others being very similar.
>>724981712wronghalo 1>walking through the same levels multiple times just to pad the game>levels feels empty of life and super game scriptyhalo 2>none of the above
>>724981712It's a flawed sequel. halo 3 was better in every aspect
>>724981712You can make complaints against Halo 2 but I don't think you can call it bad just for the MP alone setting the standard for online going forward.
>>724990195If it weren't for the shit one-two punch of Sacred Icon and Quarantine Zone it would easily be the best campaign in the series
>>724981712No.
>>724989058Well the Battle Rifle IS the Magnum. It was literally taken from the exact tags in the engine code and supplanted to 2 as a burst rifle to "justify" the raw power. So really, the weapon triangle shifted a bit and the CE Magnum equivalent no longer was an inventory default. The same shit happened for the CE AR to the 2 SMG.
>>724990840It's a nerfed to shit pistol.
>>724985405Only people that played every Halo before Reach at launch can post in this thread, sorry.
>>724982297>Better core gameplaybrutes in halo 2 are not fun to fight against plus legendary co-op was incredibly frustrating
>>724990952Blame Bungie post-launch for making it even weaker and less accurate because people with akimbo pistols were a bullet hose menace with only 9 shots to kill for 24 round spam. And if you pack it with a energy weapon in the left hand you can still strip shields and then instakill with headshots when you use it right. It's still arguably about as difficult if not easier than a 3 BR for headshots so long as you're not doing it at a range.Meanwhile the SMG only really gets that sort of breathing room with full akimbo spray rushes and not much else for utility at all unlike the 2 Magnum.
>>724990960:(
>>724991147I wasn't talking about Halo 2's magnum.
>>724990952>Magnum in one hand>Plasma Pistol in the other>you can now break shields and headshot without even swapping weapons
>>724991479>have to dump half a mag because the magnum has horrible accuracy
>>724981712You can tell who didn't bother to use the Arbiters invisibility button, based on if they view his flood levels as Bad or "meh"
I would like 2 more if Cairo Highway didn't scar me on my first LASO run.
>>724981712Why does everyone on reddit r/Halo like Halo 4 and 5 ? What fucking happened to the original Halo 1 - 3 players or is the fanbase completely overrun with people who discovered Halo at 4?
>>724984330>>724988196I would argue the The Arbiter does, its just harder to see because he is an alien which inherently makes it less resonant. But if you can vibe with the warrior culture tone, it hits really well.
>>724991876Its self-selection because anyone who doesn't like the direction has either formed their own private enclaves or disengaged by now.
>>724981712Could Halo be treated as a stand alone game by itself if the sequels never existed? I forgot how it ends but was the conclusion of Halo 1 satisfying?
>>724992004>was the conclusion of Halo 1 satisfying?no because it implied a larger universe and themes to explore
>>724992004>destroy a halo ring so it doesn't wipe all life out in the galaxy>but the Covenant are still unresolved in the threat they hold over humanity>"Halo.. it's finished.">"No. We're just getting started.">343 Guilty Spark fucks off into spaceYou could tweak some shit to make it standalone, but it straight up ends on a sequel hook otherwise.
>>724983698The enemy AI in H2 is actually improved, there's more behaviors and complex responses, there's a big series of posts an anon did a while back explaining it>>724984330What "exploration" missions? There's no exploring/adventuring focused missions in CE"Halo" is nonlinear but that just amounts to picking which of the 3 samey and uninteresting wave defense suggestions you do in which order, that mission is hurt, not helped, by it's nonlinearty>No. It's hard to compete with...>too bad all the world building is done in...Nah, the entire sequence of content from "Regret" through "High Charity" is masterfully done and forshadows and builds up to narrative reveals and implications through clever dialog and environmental storytelling, while juggling multiple plot threads, EX: Miranda mentions the Library complex and shield wall you later see and fight through as the Arbiter when encountering her ODSTs, it's all but said that Truth intentionally lets Chief get away with killing Regret to justify changing of the guard, and the fact that the Prophets claim to have spoken with Spark also implies they know what the rings really do, the fact the Flood begins to drive vehicles in Quarantine Zone hints at there being a coordinated intelligence behind them etc, there's more examples I didn't even mention>Halo 2 reuses so much [music], and... is more cliched soundingAnon we're talking about Halo 2, 3 is the game with almost zero original tracks and makes them sound generic with whatever orchestral covers>>724984532>>724985405>>724986437>>724987765"The Arbiter" is fine if you know how to use camo well, "Uprising" is great, and "Great Journey" are excellentThe flaws "The Oracle", "Sacred Icon" etc have with copy pasted rooms and low weapon/enemy variety is shit CE's entire campaign suffers from, so if you think those ruin Halo 2's campaign I don't know how you can stand CE's>At least half of them are reused from the first gameI'm not counting those
>>724991876I don't get the love for Halo 4 these days either, but I've defended Halo 5's MP and core gameplay since the beta, it is excellent
>>724991876my theory is that OG halo fans largely bailed after the blatant insult that H4 was, and then H5 killed any hope left and cleaned up any stragglers. Halo 4 was basically literally a spat in the face to the fans, and the backlash from it is pretty much lost history at this point.The history revisionism is the worst aspect of it. Halo 4 was never received well by the fans. It's just a confirmation bias because all the fans eventually abandoned all hope.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONUN3iGJYEo
>>724991118>>724989698>>724987765Ran out of space to respond to the core gameplay remarks here in >>724992503, but:By core gameplay, I mean the movement, shooting, physics, etc, not stuff like weapon or enemy balance, hence me noting CE has better weapon balance over 2 as one of the few things 2 handled worseI will concede that 2 switching to regen health was a core gameplay downgrade, but I think 2's more responsive movement and shooting more then makes up for that
>>724992797There was always a minorty of people who liked Halo 4's campaign, but I don't understand how they grew so much or why Halo 5's campaign hasn't seen the same softening of opinions considering I think both of their campaigns are as flawed as each other, albeit in different ways
>>724992853Nobody likes the Halo 4 campaign. They like the pseudo-romance between Chief and Cortana
>>724992907that's part of the campaign
>>724993074who in their right mind would overlook mediocre levels, bad enemy design, a terrible villain, horrible weapon balancing and an ugly artstyle because they want to see Master Chief get his AI gf a body
>>724981712I played the uncut mod for this recently and man there's a lot of stuff i wish made it into the full release.
>>724991876>What fucking happened to the original Halo 1 - 3 playersWe quit when Bungie did
>>724993302Not sure, but a decent amount of people apparently will or apparently don't think those flaws are that badPersonally I don't think the Didact is a great villain but I don't think he's a bad one, if nothing else he's got presence and good lines, his motive and goals just seem extremeThey shoulda switches the villains of 4 and 5, have 4 end on Cortana going fully insane from rampancy and trying to protect chief by force and sealing him on requiem and you needing to be the one who kills her, (and get rid of the UNSC infinity from the plot while we're at it), and have 5 be about the Didact wanting to use the guardians to install galactic peace by force
>>724992797>The history revisionism is the worst aspect of it. Halo 4 was never received well by the fans. It's just a confirmation bias because all the fans eventually abandoned all hope.fact
>>724992503>what do you mean>oh you mean this because I know what you meanI'm not reading your post lol
>>724994131I guessed what you mean but I wasn't sure
>make best Cortana>kill her
>>724994262Halo 1 Cortana was by far best Cortana
>>724982770if this was heroic you'd be running on no health rectangles after that
>>724981712>playing in 2025 means he's playing the terrible campaignit was a multiplayer game
>>724994262>>7249943834's cortana is hot but doesn't feel like cortana, she's too curvy and thicc and doesn't look or act smart/confident
