Video games where I can defend and siege forts?
>>726024082any total war
>>726024082You launch a couple bombs into there and it ceases to exist in 2 seconds.
>>726024082>Welcome to lords the realm II
>>726024082Mount&bladeChivalry 2
>>726024082For that kind of fort you need to play empire total war
>>726024082Why don't more games feautre star forts?Actually, why do games in general forget that anything existed between 1400 and 1900?
>>726024082Empire and Napoleon Total WarHoldfast
HoldfastI only wish the players weren't absolute mongoloids so we could get some real Napoopan tactical kino>HOLD THE LINE GUYS, JUST STAND STILL IN ONE BLOB AND LET THE ENEMY FLANK US AND BOMBARD US>OK, WE HAVE THE UPPER HAND AND THE ENEMY IS FORCED TO ATTACK, LET'S DO AN EPIC CHARGE ON THEIR DEFENSES FOR NO REASON
>>726024082https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-7AgkhLvVwBattle for Middle Earth 1 & 2 Stronghold & Stronghold: Crusader Command and Conquer series Civilizations series Dragon Commander Dune 2 & Dune 2000 (personal favorite) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOSAJhfkX5QWar Thunder Ace Combat series Factorio Space Engineers Planetary Annihilation (unlikely to work) MechWarrior series
Imagine the manpower that went into making those glacisHistory is so kino
Never understood why forts were a thing, just go around, its not like an entire army can hide in there anyway
>>726026657what if it spans the entire front line with trenches and bunker complexes and is backed by a fuckton of artillery?
>>726028076I had an absolute blast with this back in July when it released for console and had dozens of full servers. Now it's dead af again though, sadly. Games like this never have a playerbase for long.
>>726024082>abusing the meta
>>726028404There's full servers every day
>>726028317You get out of the fort and fuck up the enemy's supply train while he's trying to walk through your lands and then run back to the fort before he can do shit
>>726028317They generally put forts in spots that you can't "just go around". It's kind of the whole point.
>>726028317If you ignore them and your army goes further they can leave the castle to attack your supply lines and reinforcements that pass by.
>>726028482Barely. Definitely not like it was. It had at least 10,000 people playing. Recent peak is around 200 lmao. That's maybe two servers worth
>>726028730How many servers do you usually play on simultaneously
>>726028469>Finds meta>Figures out the counter and sells it to the highest bidder
>>726024082These didn't last very long since explosives were invented shortly after, even if they were really good
>>726028317in general, the castle is the seat of government for the surrounding land. the point of the war is to take the land, and you need to hold the castle to hold the land.
Stronghold: Definitive EditionStronghold Crusader: Definitive Edition
>>726030408>downgraded edition
>>726027360fantastic game(for its time)
>>726028350a couple more bombs
>>726029171Literally the exact opposite The time aftert they invented gunpowder was the height of fortresses. This was an era where sieges could take decades because star fortresses basically made gunpowder useless. Instead or making pure stone walls they basically made them out of dirt, because turns out packed dirt is very resistant to blunt damage when it is angled.
>>726027887>Actually, why do games in general forget that anything existed between 1400 and 1900?Mostly due to the legacy of enlightenment and romanticism back at the turn of 19th century. No joke, we are still stuck in the mindset of that era, that either saw ALL past as ugly, boring and stupid (enlightenment), or obsessively glorified anything pre-modern (romanticism) and continuously fixated either on Middle ages, Antiquity or Egypt.The two ideologies were contradictory, but they both agreed on one thing: anything between 1400 and 1900 was shit and boring and not worth exploring. The impact of this mindset was particularly strong in the US, who didn't have any physical reminders of other eras present around them, thus what didn't exist in popular fiction literally didn't exist in their heads, and since US became the dominant cultural trendsetter... here we are. It is sad that we could not effectively break out of this 200 years old bullshit, but culture lives its own life.
>>726030983Explosives =/= gun powder
>>726027887>why do games in general forget that anything existed between 1400 and 1900?Why are you a cum guzzling retarded nigger? There are hundreds of the games of the 1400 to 1900 period or with that period in them as a step (civilz). Not only RTS by the way.>muh 1401 to 1899Anno series, All of the pirate games pretty much, mystery murders, quests, horror games, garry fucking plotter, civ., and the list goes on, and on. So many, that I can't even recall all of them off the top of my head.TL;DR: A troon faggot zoomie with no gamer cred is retarded. What else is new.
>>726031139He is still right though.Bastion forts (which is what OP's picture is) are literally a product of gunpowder age, and their core design and tenants remained effective and nearly unchanged for nearly 400 years.First bastion forts appeared in around 1540, and the last ones were build in 19th century. In fact the main reason why these designs were abandoned was the emergence of aerial warfare - though tanks would later seal the deal.Seriously. I live in a city surrounded by bastion fortification that was nearly entirely build between 1780 and 1850. And again, if you look it up, first cases of bastion forts come from 1540's Italy.
Foxhole.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLYYM8tuhGM
>>726028317>just go aroundWhat do they eat though?In all seriousness though, that really was the core problem. Supplies. Pretty much right up till second half of 19th century, there was no effective way to continuously supply your army out on the field, the armies were dependent on local supplies (e.g. raiding and confiscating shit from surrounding villages and cities).So if the locals could just stockpile all of their stuff in a fortified location, your option was to either siege them and hope you break them before your own supplies run out, or try to push further in but not only that meant running out of what you had, it also meant that you are leaving enemies IN YOUR REAR able to cut off what meagre supply lines you did have.Also - at least until the Napoleonic wars, there was an issue of legitimacy. Something we don't really care about today, but back then, wars weren't quite as pragmatic as we see them. Symbolic aspect of warfare was very important. Conquering symbolic centres of the land provided legitimacy to your victory.But since stationary fortifications continued to be core of most warfare long after Napolenic wars, yeah, supplies were really the number 1 concern. You needed the shit they hoarded in the forts to continue fueling your war, and you needed to make sure enemies can't easily cut you off from your mainland.
>>72602831710,000 years in MS Paint
>>726032132Inaccurate. Bastion forts were abandoned because ways to defeat them were developed.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polygonal_fort
>>726033165>Should ofOther than that I appreciate your post
>>726033194Dude, maybe fucking READ the damn link before you post it. Holy shit how are you this dumb?From your very own "source": The bastion system of fortification had dominated military thinking since its introduction in 16th century Italy, until the first decades of the 19th century.And if you scroll a little bit further on, you will find a segment named "lessons from Crimean War" which explains that really, polygonal forts started getting more popular because of that particular war - which I will remind you, started in 18 FUCKING 53. So while first theories of polygonal forts date back to 1830, into practice they were only introduced in second half of 19th century. You cretin. You fucking clown.Not to mention - polygonal forts are literally just a MINOR EVOLUTION of a bastion fort - literally just a minor adjustment in the geometry.The fuck is wrong with you? Why would you post a link literally proving you wrong? Why would you not at least skim-read that shit? How are you still alive? Is your family tree just a straight fucking line?
>>7260278871400 to 1900 is casting too wide a net, but there is indeed a black hole of historical consciousness between 1550 and 1775 in US-based popular imagination (still make vast parts of media and even other countries have to take their taste into account). The average burger has a vague idea of "Renaissance" and protestnigg appearing then it's fast forward to French and American revolutions. At most with the 18th century you'll get a Versailles party and some pirate stuff. The 17th century basically never happened despite being the kinoest.
>>726034625>but there is indeed a black hole of historical consciousness between 1550 and 1775 in US-based popular imaginationIt's not just US. After all, the US had to get their culture from somewhere. The general disinterest in anything between high medieval era and industrial revolution stems from European cultural trends of 19th century - ESPECIALLY UK and German culture, which is what was most heavily imported and formative for US cultural landscape. American idea of western history was formed at the height of north-european romantic movement. You know, the era that gave us shit like Ivanhoe and Robin Hood. Again, in that era, European culture was torn between Enlightenment (which pushed the whole "dark age" angle on all of history safe for maybe antiquity), and Romanticism which desperately wanted to return to "purer ages" and thus hated anything that even faintly reminded them of industrial era (hence, not only massively pushing medieval settings, but also creating many of the hyper-popular misconceptions about middle ages - like sanitizing any mentions of gunpowder from that period).Again, it feels stronger in US because while the entire western world was and still is trapped in that 19th century mindset, if you live in Europe, generally surrounded by Baroque, Rococo and Neoclassical art and architecture on LITERALLY every corner, you kinda still have to keep post-medieval history in the back of your mind - while in US, there wasn't any of that material reminder that yes - there were other historical eras other than Middle ages and Industrial ages. That is what exaggerated that problem in US. But it all comes down to originally European culture, particularly northern european culture of 19th and early 20th century.
>>726035603Romanticism really was a mistake. It's nothing but trash.
>>726033665Not everyone is an oldfag
>>726027360I remember buying it alongside Quake II, it was in the bargain bin for 5 bucks. I ended up playing it way more than Quake.
>>726027887>gamesMedia in general likes to pretend Europe went from knights and men-at-arms straight to Napoleonic line infantry overnight.
>>726033665>Other than that I appreciate your postYou never should of said that
Forts, duh.
>>726035834>Romanticism really was a mistake. It's nothing but trash.I don't think all of it was trash, but I'm not fond of its larger impact on western culture. But I generally dislike a LOT of trends that originate from this era. Not just Romanticism, but Realism and especially Naturalism were absolutely fucking cancerous ideas too, causing long-lasting serious damage to western culture. I think the whole 18-19th century was absolutely fucking littered with bad ideological and cultural trends, where ever you look. That is not to say that there weren't great INDIVIDUAL works (realism, as shit as it was, gave us at least authors like Dostojevsky or Chekhov after all, romanticism at least gave us Novalis, Hawthorne, James and eventually Poe), but man, everything about western philosophy of that time was so fucked up, and we haven't shaken that legacy one bit even today.
>>726033675damn bro you turned anon into the raghead in this infamous greentext
>>726028350Brave words for someone in blitzkreig distance
>>726028350drone bombs
>>726024082I like booting up Battle for Midle Earth 2 from time to time just to play Helms Deep or Minas Tirith defense
>>726039632>drone bombsActually, the only thing you really need to defeat a fucking bastion fort is a truck and the ability to make tin cans.Not a tank. Not an airplane. Not high angle high explosive artillery or chemical weapons - though all of that is being usually credited for ending this kind of warfare.If you can fucking drive past the fortification, and you can safely store large amounts of food for long time, you won against any stationary fortification.
>>726024082Foxhole, if you're into that sort of thing that is >>726028317We controlled the river way heading out to sea and were the only major fortification between the center front at deadlands and the factories at the treasury, they couldn't simply go around us. They shelled us for literal weeks but we held.
>>726024082Stronghold Crusader's skirmish mode is pretty good for that experience.
>>726041638fuck wrong screenshot
>>726024082How much would it cost to buy and live in one of these nowadays? I am sure Europe is littered with old abandoned forts, can't be that bad, right?
>>726041437I'd recommend foxhole only to masochist
>>726033665Embarrassing (4u)
>>726042523My country just sold a small castle to an hotel company for 2.35 million euros.Hobestly most fortifications what have some value are state property and not for sale.
>>726024082ORA POIS, FORTE DE NOSSA SENHORA DA GRAÇA. PORTUGAL MENTIONED
>>726041437>>726042730for me? its the vetted stygian. bitch ass tanks won't push an inch when you man one of these babies
>>726024082empire total war and shogun 2 have forts and castles that look closest to that, but medieval 2's castles are a ton of fun to play with, especially the bigger ones. the ai can get a bit retarded at times, but its good for an almost 20 year old gameactual sieges are dogshit in total war games after shogun 2, sticking to the older ones is best.
>>726024082becastled on steam is a pretty fun little game on steam where you build, upgrade and maintain a fort and then enemies attack in increasing waves at night. i got 100 hours out of it so farhttps://store.steampowered.com/app/1330460/Becastled/
>>726044409>actual sieges are dogshit in total war games after shogun 2, sticking to the older ones is best.They are dogshit in Shogun 2 as well. They have been always dogshit. TW never figured how to do sieges. Didn't know how to do them before, don't know how to do them now, and probably will never know how to do them.Admitedly, it is a technologically really fucking difficult problem to solve. But they were always ass. All the way to Rome 1. In fact all the way to the original Shogun.
>>726024082star fort was so brokenthey were literally the peak of defend until Artillery were inventor people just dont bother fighting youthey just dodge you and go straight for the capital
>>726032760>Something we don't really care about today, but back then, wars weren't quite as pragmatic as we see them. Symbolic aspect of warfare was very important. Conquering symbolic centres of the land provided legitimacy to your victory.The West is still obsessed with PR wins over legitimate victories. E.g. MI6's obsession with trying to blow up the Kerch bridge in Crimea despite the Russian army supply lines being completely independent from it. Hundreds of stormshadow, SCALP and ATACMs missiles have been intercepted on their way to the bridge, dozens of infiltration and demolition OPs thwarted. Efforts that could've helped the collapsing frontlines instead. Symbolic wins, propaganda and PR are the strongest weapon of the West behind nukes.
>>726024082you could probably make an entire strategy game based around siege warfare, in depth siege warefare, the type that lasts months to years.
>>726028317you have a couple hundred or thousand men who will sally out to hit you from behind, or even worse, raid your supply lines and cut you off destroying your army without battle.
>>726027887Devs and gamers like to compress large chunks of history into these small theme parks, the most popular being the Middle Ages before serious gunpowder use, WWII and sometimes WWI but only the Western Front, ancient Greece/Rome, and if it's gunpowder then it's only Napoopan, the Civil War or weebshit. Everything else is a niche.
>>726028317Something most people don't realize is that forts and castles are actually classified as weapons. They are built primarily with attacking in mind. Ignoring them is like ignoring a tank. A massive, stationary tank that's filled to the brim with manpower and arms. Its occupants would often crush an opposing army with overwhelming firepower unless they could lay siege to the structure.
>>726044949>The West is still obsessed with PR wins over legitimate victories.That is however a very different thing from the concept of legitimacy of a victory on the historic scale. What you call "legitimate victory" (as opposed to PR one) is actually a PRAGMATIC victory. The fact that you consider the two things to be the same is a perfect illustration of how far we are nowdays from the historically far more prominent concept of an agonal war.And the fact that nowdays, PR is more important than pragmatic state of things is just a result of the specific democratic development of western nations and role of mass media in it. However, even todays PR victories are based on selling a pragmatically unfavorable situation as if it was pragmatically favorable, because the politicians need to maintain favor of the population. Last 150 years taught us that public opinion is more likely to lose you a war than actual war situation. See Vietnam war in particular.The symbolic dimension and the subject of legitimacy is still missing from it. The subject of legitimacy on a symbolic level is related to the notion that war is a completely fair, god-granted and approved way of resolving disputes - as opposed to the contemporary idea of it being a necessary evil done when all actually fair and human solutions have been exhausted and failed.The concept of an agonal war is essentially the idea of seeing war to be just slightly more extreme form of sport. And weirdly enough, it is historically speaking, the more common way to see it. To us, modern people this way of seeing war is however completely alien. I fully understand why you don't see it, it's not a failure on your side, it's just something that is so deeply ingrained in us that we don't even realize we could doubt it.
>>726044949Nukes are fake and gay, feds added a dirty bomb to the usual fire bombing routine and made up big scary stories.
>>726046609Artillery?
>>726042523>How much would it cost to buy and live in one of these nowadays?>I am sure Europe is littered with old abandoned forts, can't be that bad, right?Actually there aren't that many smaller ones left because there was a huge trend in dismantling old fortification at the very end of 19th century. It was actually a genuine obsession, a massive cultural fad at one point.Those that were left behind are near universally considered to be cultural and historical legacy objects and as such, ABSOLUTELY not suitable for private ownership. It's like saying "there are tons of baroque churches in Europe - so they must be pretty cheap to buy!" They are considered to be essentially invaluable. You can strike a deal with the state to rent them out, or even perhaps buy one, but only under incredibly strict conditions, presenting an extensive plan and agreeing to adhere to extremely strict rules and laws about historical site protection, effectively meaning that you don't really own the shit, you are temporarily allowed to become a caretaker of one - and make some profit off it.And of course, that means the expenses are beyond what basically any individual can afford, as you need a literal teams of experts presenting very detailed long-term and exact plans for it, not to mention to tackle the administrative. It's the kind of shit a big company with hundreds of people at their disposal can sometimes afford.Your best chances would probably be in eastern Europe, particularly the shittier states like Slovakia or Bulgaria, where the state is often stretched too thin and quite literally can't afford the maintanence. In which case if you come and prove that you have both the capital to restore and maintain the object, understand and abide the laws of historical preservation, and probbly have an economic long term plan for its use. Then you can actually get to buy one of such historical sites. But trust me - you'll need tens or hundreds of millions of dollars.
>>726030983>This was an era where sieges could take decades because star fortresses basically made gunpowder useless.not him but can you go into more detail that sounds cool
>>726048772NTA but basically this like same reason why in china canons didnt really take off since they made these "dirt" walls from the start while EU walls were well WALLS that get raped by canons.
>>726048772>make wall>make another wall behind>fill the in between with soil/dirt>all kinetic force is absorbed by the soil/dirt
>>726048772>not him but can you go into more detail that sounds coolI don't think there is that much more to speak about. It's a pretty simple idea. When you have canons on the field, the idea of enemies scaling your walls become far less concerning than the idea of enemy just blowing them into rubble with a handful of volleys. The best way to mitigate canon fire is to absorb the impact, which is why instead of tall and steep stone walls, you build essentially just giant heaps of packed dirt encased in a thin layer of brick or stone cover (which is really there only to keep the heap of dirt from slowly falling down.But since your walls are now 12 meters wide heaps of dirt, that makes it does bring back the problem of "people just climbing up" into play. Meaning controlling the sight lines absolutely vital. Hence the star-shapes, they are designed that way to ensure you have perfect visibility at all times, as ANY blind spot of the fortification means enemies will literally just climb into your fortress. Canons can't break your wall and if you build your fortress correctly, you'll always see infantry coming and get to shoot them from an advantaged position making such attempts nearly always too costly to be worth it.That is all there is to it. It's an effective way to make direct canon fire nearly completely ineffective, meaning sieges can last REALLY long. That, coupled with advancements in logistics and food preservation made sieges last very long again - even longer than they used to back in Medieval times. The extreme lenghts of sieges really were more a result of people knowing how to pack and preserve food and prevent sanitation disasters better than before, allowing some fortifications to last sieges for years on. Much like the later discovery of trenches and machine guns, these forts basically made offense inherently more costly than defense.
>>726048582Yes picrel, a single pile from the same battle that leveled that fort and other piles from other battles are even bigger.WW1 went more insane that most people truly comprehend.
>>726035603>In fact the main reason why these designs were abandoned was the emergence of aerial warfare - though tanks would later seal the deal
>>726028317>dude we have these fast 4 legged animals>let's just...go aroundHow the fuck did the devs let this guild abuse such a brain dead meta?
>>726042730Maybe but it's currently by far the best PVP game out there.
>>726052637Is it? Just feels like nothing happens until a guild shows up with a shit ton of people/equipment then it goes back to nothing again.
>>726027887Because it's the awkward period where guns exists AND matter a lot, but they are also kinda garbage and costly so you still need a bunch of faggots with sword and spikes to be your main army.The entire era just feel like a badly written isekai.Before that era it's cool sword & shield & armor.After that era it's cool guns guns guns.The middle is a constant "why the fuck did you bring a knife to a gun fight" problem. Not an issue if you like history, but brain-wrecking for normies, and a pain for game designer because you will *need* to make guns shit and/or expensive - and the players used to play FPS/RTS/etc will complain it feel retarded compared to their AWP or Mammoth Tank.So unless you are targeting historyfag gamers (aka: you want your game to sell 12 copies max) you just avoid that era like the plague for your game.
>>72605257190% of Gengis Khan fortress-related victories were actually due to the very poor communication networks and lack of unity in the region he invaded.Fort would one or two panicked survivors at their door one day claiming bullshit about a foreign army having conquered everything, laugh at it, then next morning they have a whole bunch of faggots under their wall demanding immediate surrender.No actual warning to call back troops and ask some bigger lord to sent reinforcement, no information if this is the whole army or just vanguard group #344. A ton of city/fort surrendered more out of panic than because the army at their door was actually stronger than usual.
>>726042523>How much would it cost to buy Surprisingly cheap for the size.>and liveBetter win the lottery every other month.At least in France, those tend to classified as national monuments, and why you can own them they come with a fuckton of museum-style obligations like having to make them public at least a few days per years, and more importantly you can only do historical-compatible repair&maintenance (which cost of ton) along with any modification needing 10 years of paperwork and scrutiny.
>>726054996^this. Them being huge properties with maintenance according to historical standards makes them impossible to live in for most people.Simply heating the property to avoid mold, and hypothermia, can easily ruin you.
>>726053701Not really, since as many have pointed out, these styles of fortifications spanned 300 years of warfare history - starting in 1540 and lasting to 1850's. Which is enough time to go from pike formations and landknechts to Crimean War which was basically a prequel to WW1 - with automated rifles and heavy explosive shell artilleries.So yeah, you are right about an awkward phase - the pike and gun era (e.g. about 1520-1600, but by the end you have pretty damn cool shit of the Napoleon era and hell, even beginning of modern warfare with aformentioned Crimean and US civil war - still fitting side-to-side with these monstrosities.
>>726049403you've got a fucked up way of writing a W
