Why are we NOT supposed to judge retro games by our modern standards?
Space Invaders has some ass graphics fr fr dogshit shooter ong
because it's a fucking you dumb cunt
>>727311294fucking what
>>727311189because that would be unfair to modern games.
Only manchildren blinded by nostalgia think you're not supposed to. Why do you think only terminally online retards like the ones here on /v/ think any old zelda game is even half as good as BOTW?
most people are too stupid to even understand what standards are, so their complaints are like "why can't i move the camera with the right stick like fortnite"
>>727311189Who says you're not supposed to? I do, retro games absolute blow moderns out of the water 80% of the time.
>>727311378Ocarina of time is better than your slop fuck off
>>727311189Because otherwise tendies would have to admit that Ocarina is a subpar game that aged horribly.
>>727311189Uncslop but good
>>727311294Hey guys I think the ESL is trying to communicate. Any translators?
>judge a retro game by modern standards>wow I love all this gameplay, I love all this environmental storytelling, I love how unique and fun this is>NNOOOOOO NOT LIKE THAT IT NEEDS TO BE LIKE GOD OF ONIONS
>>727311189Because we had it better back thenWith modern standards Ocarina would probably be like a 13/10
>>727311376this
>>727311378If you were actually objective and also took account of the limitations of the platform then that would be irrelevant. Because a work of art is art. But you're not objective. You're a stupid graphics whore.
>>727311376>>727311404>>727311660>>727311692>Why yes, I love my side scrolling pixelslop and 4-button controller against a CRT compared to a technical 3D action game.
>>727311779Yes, you gonna seethe about it or whaT?
There are literally zero early 3D games that still hold up well today. Even stuff like mario 64 gets btfo by so many 3D platformers now it feels like a demo more than anything else.
>>727311189Because they don't hold up, and pale in comparison to modern offerings.
>>727311827Rayman 2 mogs the shit out of your favorite game
>>727311376Lmao this
>>727311827This.64 is literally a tech demo compared to Galaxy 2.
>>727311774So true. So we can both agree OBJECTIVELY pong is one of the greatest video games ever made then, right?
>>727311779Those games are both unccore
>>727311294i see you my fellow paranormal brethren
>>727311854>posts a game that doesn't hold up compared to OoT
>>727311376TACTICAL TRVKE INCOMING
You can. And if you're being objective and are a reasonably intelligent person you will see that old=good and new=bad.
>>727311189Modern games can't hold a candle to old games
>>727311189If your argument is tied to anything graphical you're a retard
>tfw someone overrates Ocarina of Time
>>727311189>play oot for the first time>great tutorial>cool first dungeon>get to hyrule field>90% of the overworld is emptyyeah, really cool game you got there grandpa
Checkmate, faggots.
>>727312159>hyrule field is a fieldWoah...
>>727312193why did you post some random souls copy trash?
>>727312039>Tfw when you play any Zelda after AlttpLmao what a shitter, with the taste to match
>>727312264>hyrule field is filled with copy paste contentoh...
>>727311376/Thread
>>727312159>>get to hyrule field>>90% of the overworld is emptyjust like modern games, oot was so ahead of it's time...
>>727312337WHAAT? I THOUGHT SHRINES AND KOROKS WERE BAD????
>>727311189Just like you should focus on the substance of an argument rather than its semantics in order to fully understand it, the same principle can be applied to videogames, substance holds up better than style in a game.I remember when I was a kid, my parents couldn't afford the latest console or any of the new releases for that matter, that used to get me down because those games looked more interesting on the surface. But guess what? I ended up finding out old games have much more substance and thought and passion and love poured into them than every other shareholder-driven production.
>>727312378>oot was bad first, that makes it good
>>727311189Because that would be retarded.
After appraising the franchise up to this point, I've reached this objective analysis.
>>727311189Most of the old games 4chan likes are objectively shit and they're too retarded to play anything else. It's an era of escapism and casual gameplay they can't move on from. They complain because they are gatekept out of enthusiast oriented new games, because all they play is old movie games which are superficially based on a culture that no longer exists and has no bearing on the actual quality of the game.
>>727311189If that's how your brain works, you kinda just have to roll with it. You're dumb, yes, but fortunately for you you're in the majority.
>>727311189I like to include context in my critiques.
>>727312475>oot B but oot with fancier graphics S
>>727311376Modern gaymers absolutely BTFO
>>727312538TP is more refined than OOT.
>>727311189master of magic is much better than the modern remake, games like that couldnt be made today and if it did they would fuck up the execution much harder than what they would have in the past
>>727312538OoT wishes it was TP.
>>727312614>>727312654It also lacks originality, substance, and purpose. I agree with what that one reviewer said (you know who I'm talking about).It's hard to respect Twilight Princess, it has no teeth.
>>727312654i sure wish i spent 5 hours in kokiri village
>>727311189Insulating their nostalgia in an insurmountable time capsule. Removing it from any and all criticism. It's the mark of an inferior mind incapable of analyzing a game objectively.
>>727311376https://youtu.be/SMYgcS53Ezk
>>727312647Neither master of magic game is good, how retarded are you
>>727312719Ah, the game where you transform into a wolf and platform around on a beyblade lacks originality, thanks for clearing that up.
>>727312719The game where you get shot out of canon into a floating city while you're spider-man'ing it with two hookshots lacks originality.
>>727311503Why do you assume im a tendie just because I liked OOT. I dont even like any other Nintendo franchises and I barely really even like any other Zelda games other than OOT and MM.
>>727312459>was that a joke?>nooo i'm smarter than that!!!
>>727311376This. Not only are old games better, but they demonstrate that developers used to be talented. They somehow fit RE2, a PS1 game that spanned two discs on an N64 cart and kept the FMVs and didn’t cut anything and actually added additional content in form of the Ex-Files.Nowadays optimization is such a lost art that developers don’t understand why you wouldn’t want 60gb of uncompressed language audio files you will never use in their game.
the inevitable problem is that any groundbreaking older piece of media, be it film, tv, games, etc. is going to feel boring and stale for a modern consumer since all the groundbreaking shit has inevitably been no only long incorporated into standard development but often had a bunch of additional developments that make the original groundbreaking work seem simple in comparison.
>>727312804>>727312865Originality does not equal throwing random shit on the wall to see what sticks. You could argue Michael Bay also does crazy shit in his movies, does that make his movies original? It does not, same applies to the philosophy applied to TP, which although a good game, it still fails to stick to an idea, a motif, a purpose, it's so aimless, it was made entirely for the purpose of jingling the keys to the retarded games butthurt about Wind Waker's direction, which was a much better game than TP.It just goes to show Nintendo's talent for game dev. I mean, even something as aimless as TP is still a solid 4/5.
>>727311378A lot of mainline Zelda games have better narratives, characters music and world than BotW. BotW has better interactions with the game environment sure, but older games have better worlds that doesn't waste as much of the players time to traverse.
>>727311376fpbp
>>727313269brother they're video games. at the end of the day botw's better gameplay is worth 10x as much as other games' better worlds or characters.
>>727313164niggaevery single 3D Zelda is:>collect 3 of a thing>plot progression>collect 2-4 of a thing>plot progression>final dungeon
>>727312475>Link's Awakening>Really goodWhen will this meme fucking stop?
>>727311189define modern standards
>>727313419Theres no point playing a game at all if all characters and story stuff are shit as its just pointless mindless gameplay for no reason even if the gameplay is good
>>727311779videogames reached their peak on the 7th gen though, and its also when the downfall began. technology caught up with design and then developers were instantly corrupted by said power and started walking backwards to sell games to increasingly retarded casuals
>>727313571
>>727313426If you reduce any subject to general talking points and labels, everything starts to look boring. A movie summary rarely captures why a story is memorable. It's not just the longer runtime that makes the difference, but the artistry that exists beyond your initial expectations.
>>727311376This. Modern games have 25 years of insight and experimentation. They have no excuse for being shit.
There is genuinely nothing a 3D Zelda game does that a fromsoft game doesn't do better. I do not enjoy solving block puzzles for 3 year olds.
>>727311376FPBP
>>727313881soulslop offers no puzzles at all. I would love a zelda game with both greater combat complexity and puzzle complexity but soulslop only does the former.
>>727314023>soulslop offers no puzzles at allGood, it shouldn't have any because puzzles hurt replayability. An inherent feature of why from games are so well designed is because they are built with NG+ in mind. If it's not fun to do twice, it's not in there. Imagine you're in sen's fortress and you have to stop every room to shoot an arrow through a torch to light a spiderweb on fire. It's fucking stupid.
>>727313419>better gameplaydefined by what measure? Traversing larger empty open environments isn't good gameplay. Weapon durability is a negative. BotW has less dungeons to skill check you and substitutes them with 1-2 shrines room that critics in general find less satisfying.
>>727311189That is an interesting question. Like how it's not okay to judge a game from the past by modern standards, but it *is* okay to judge a person/event from the past by modern standards.
>>727314206>Traversing larger empty open environments isn't good gameplayOh grow the fuck up already, will you? Literally everyone except the chuds on /v/ agree that just moving around in the open world is fun as fuck.
>>727314212Not only is it okay, but it's necessary, and you should be able to distinguish value in context. Something historically important is not necessarily practically valuable.
>>727314197>If it's not fun to do twice, it's not in thereand yet the boss rosters are not halved on NG+...
>>727311376Holy!
>>727314308Maybe you should go discuss your shit game with them instead, rather than getting upset that people here don't enjoy open-world slop.
>>727314371There is not a single boss in dark souls 3 or sekiro that is not fun.
>>727311189Because then you'd end up putting average retro games on a pedestal.
>>727311376based
>>727311951>>727311294I don't get it
>>727313164The Quality of Being Novel or Unusual.Originality.
>>72731451799% of old games are pretty awful, and I say this as someone who has played through entire console libraries. Like random indie platformers that drop on steam everyday and get like 10 sales in their lifetime easily clear a huge portion of old games in quality and if you think otherwise you've never download the entire library of NES games and actually played through them, and maybe thats what you need to do to move on.
>>727313467What don't you like about it? try the PC port with four equipable items.
>>727311376He's right ya know
>>727313881I seriously don't get why they shoehorn block puzzles into every one of the games
>>727314690Upvoting doesn't work on 4chan.
>>727314445bro your greatwood?bro your deacons?bro your wolnir?bro your yhorm?bro your gravetender?bro your ape gank?bro your divine dragon?bro your monk?
>>727313881>Soulslopisn't it just worse MonHunster: Adventure game format?
>>727314657>download the entire library of NES gamesI will never understand why people do this. They never play them all, it's a waste.
>>727314679>Literally mod the fucking game so you don't have to be pausing and switching items for the bracelet + feather every 3 seconds>When past zelda games had passive items and less buttonslmao
>>727311189Because that just leads to every game eventually being called trash by dumb nigs, like yourself, for instance.
what standards?
>>727314868Yeah, it plays better when you aren't pausing and swapping out items a lot. It seems to me that is your gripe with the game, try the PC port.
>>727314740Because the moment to moment gameplay isn't interesting. If you remove them the game is just vacuous. The next time you play a from soft game, think about how there's no puzzles, but the areas usually don't feel boring or empty. This is kind of why it's important to think critically about old games and draw comparisons. There is a lot about OoT that can be criticized and there's a reason the only places we see it replicated are in AAA generic open world action adventure rpg goyslop. It's actually very formulaic, Nintendo's presentation is just very good and it's enough to occupy the mind of a child/stoner
>>727312159as opposed to any other game with an open field? BOTW has a lot more emptiness if thats what you want
>>727314823Because it's like 600MBs for every localized snes game and I did indeed play them all. And maybe you should too so you can stop jerking off old games like a dumbass and face reality.
>>727315028I used to love getting stoned and playing Zelda, lol
>>727315132>dude just play thousands of shitty gamesuhhh, no, faggot.
>>727315192If you admit they're shitty then there's no reason to deepthroat "retro" games. You're just some dumb normalfag scraping the barrel for casual slop. What is the value of discussing OoT? I played it when it released. I'm not a newfag, I don't need to discuss it any more because I already talked about it. Why does the board need to be 95% normaltards playing catch up? It's just wasteful.
Zelda games are just about figuring out where to go next to get the next item you need to get to the dungeon. Its retarded boring garbage
>>727314619Read my post again.
>>727314805There is not a single good monster hunter game. Monster Hunter is 2 hours of mediocre gameplay stretched over 200 hours.
>>727315515>Monster Hunter is 2 hours of mediocre gameplay stretched over 200 hours.Sounds like Elden Ring to me
>>727311189Do you judge older movies by modern standards? Or older books? Is Canterbury Tales shitty because it's in an older form of English and requires a bit more work to understand?
>>727311376
>>727315536I do not care for elden ring, the tiny dungeons feel like something out of morrowind where it's just copy pasted modules with level scaled enemies.
>>727315545Extremely low IQ post.
>>727311575>uncslop You could at least try and be creative when pretending to be a zoomette
>>727311189because the people that prop up old shit that has been objectively surpassed by later things cant reconcile and come to terms with such facts. its like holding up a mirror to a tranny and forcing them to look at themselves. they cant stand facts, because it shatters their delusional worldview.
it depends on what you're judging — judging graphical fidelity of an ancient game compared to one released yesterday would be silly but judging mechanics, gameplay, story, etc is perfectly reasonable
>>727311376fpbp/thread
>>727311189I think its about time for another OoT playthrough /v/ros. 2ship or 3DS this time?
>>727311189Because its retarded as fuck for the most obvious of reasons you goddamn moron. Those games were made with the hardware, and even in the case of pixel 2D games, the CRTs in mind. To judge it by modern standards is you simply admitting you do not want to enjoy old games for what they were. What you fags don't seem to get is you are absolutely entitled to not liking a game because you think its too old. That is fine. But what its never fine to judge anything by standards that never applied back in its days. Imagine if a faggot like you said something along the lines of today's UFC fighters would all steamroll the fighters of the very first UFC event. Well yeah duh. No fucking shit they would. The standards have completely changed. Would you also put a junior high football team against the previous Super Bowl winner? Or how about a food analogy since /v/ seems to love that? Is this post getting dumb to you? Well good. Because that is how dumb guys like you are every time you ask this stupid ass question. Play the game for what it fucking is and accept it or not for being old. Stop trying desperately to like something and apply your stupid shitty modern standards to something it can't possibly match up to since these standards often weren't even a damn thing even thought of yet for the time.
>>727311189>modern>standards??????
>>727311376lmao modern gaymers got anally destroyed
>>727314023>>727314740>>727314805>responding to the attention seeking tranny
>>727311376modern games >preorder cancer>released unfinished>day 1 patch>gamble whether it's finished in post release development >guaranteed to be unoptimized>content stripped and sold back as DLC >microtransactions>requires fake frames to run at a framerate higher than old games
>>727311189You don't have to like older games, but they are products of hardware limitations and more primitive development capabilities before technology breakthroughs. People are nostalgic for them due to their childhoods. Some older games still have credible design philosophies and don't actually have any comparable contemporaries because the current industry design trends won't allow for it. I'm not refferring to OoT specifically in that regard, but there are older styles of games that just don't get made anymore too.
>>727311376modern gaymers don't buy or own games, they pay for a licence. they've already lost
I played this game for the first time recently and it was good. Its main weakness was being easy and handholdy (still less so than most modern games) but it was meant for children so I understand. The game was still incredibly soulful and I still hum the music to myselfTaking that formula and making it grimdark, adding challenge and obscure mechanics was fucking genius on From's part however. It's an absolute winning formula even though mechanically souls slop is somehow jankier than this game in many ways. It feels better to fight without lockon in OOT
>>727311189>Why are we NOT supposed to judge retro games by our modern standards?what the fuck does this mean? nobody likes modern games so go ahead and compare them if you want. did you see the new assassins creed update?
>>727311376Gamedevbros....
>>727311189Because presentism is a psychological disease.
>>727311376came to post this
>>727313419Retard opinion. You probably think MOBAs are good
>>727312727thread ended here
>>727311779>NG2>modern
>>727320147meant for >>727311376
>>727313571Fuck off sony fag a game is about gameplay
>>727311189You can do whatever you want. You're doing that already by being a fag.Zelda always sucked ass, when I was 9 I played fallout 2 and she if empires 2 without any manuals and beat them. Why would anyone play zelda instead, it's too simple, it's boring
>>727311376/thread
>>727320386we've established how there's less gameplay
>>727320216Ironic considering the card, lmao
>>727313269nah botw is the first good zelda narrative. Including twilight princess
>>727311376f(orth)pbp
>>727317302>pwease undahstand. they were so limited! they did the best they could!so fucking retarded.and some games actually hold up, and others are extremely primitive. "good at the time" is irrelevant. can you still kill a man with a musket? sure! but its still a pretty shitty firearm. "but it was amazing at the time!" means nothing. i can play plenty of games that are even OLDER than oot, and they actually hold up pretty well. oot aged like milk. CAN somebody still have fun with it? sure. but that doesnt change the fact that its quality and novelty dont hold up.there are better games, and no amount of "good/amazing at the time" can cover for that.
>>727311880galaxy 2 is a retro game
>>727312159hyrule field is the weakest element of oot, no way around it. I think the majority of content being in the dungeons and compact outdoor environments makes it a forgivable flaw.
>>727311827mario 64 directly inspired most of those platformers, like in the sense that they specifically skipped over the 20 preceding years of shallow crap and took after 64 directly. dumb to use that to shit on 64.
>>727324448too much sense being made here
>>727311376There's no comeback from this.
>>727314197>Good, it shouldn't have any because puzzles hurt replayability.Replayability is nice, but it's not essential for a good game. Otherwise you'd be implying that puzzle games, as a genre, are bad. Which is just too retarded to consider.
>>727327241NTA, but replayability is the most important aspect of video game design. It's a fact that if your game isn't worth playing through multiple times, then the likelihood of it being worth playing through a single time is close to 0%
>>727327304Do you at least think puzzle games are an exception to that rule?
>>727311376Rare fourth post best post
>>727327241>Otherwise you'd be implying that puzzle games, as a genre, are bad. Which is just too retarded to consider.i respect pvp puzzle games like dr mario and puyo puyo but in the internet era single player puzzle games as a genre is bad. it's just look up the solution slop
>>727327431How could they be, do you like redoing puzzles you remember and know the solutions for? seems to me you would just go through the motions and get bored.
>>727327618>it's just look up the solution slopyour own personal biases towards cheating do not justify invalidation of a genre (or it being an aspect in other games).truly pathetic.
>>727311779Your argument would have more weight to it if you put Ninja Gaiden Black next to NES Gaiden.
>>727327835>ngbfagno one likes you niggas
>>727327813you know what? i'm going to take your word for it. i'll play the next puzzle game without looking shit up. what do you recommend for 360?>>727327835ngb was a boring slog compared to ng nes
>>727311294Super Mario posting damage control in the Zelda thread again I see
>>727311376thrippity bippityname fags aren't real posts
>>727327762>How could they be, do you like redoing puzzles you remember and know the solutions for?Because worse replayability is an inherent aspect of puzzles as a genre. Their challenge is entirely knowledge based. So you shouldn't judge them by the standard that lack of replayability = not worth your time. Well, you can of course insist on doing that, but if so, pic related is my only response.
>>727327997>what do you recommend for 360?Catherine.
>>727311905(You)
>>727311189OOT/MM are the best looking zelda games
>>727311376Honorary first post
>>727311376based, OP sucks a thousand cocks an hour
>>727328153That's why the entire genre is weak
The people judging old games "by modern standards" (whatever that means) have the same mindset as those complaining about there being no niggers and trannies in a Charles Dickens story
>>727311376owned as fuck, absolute trvke if ive ever seen one
>>727311189For the same reason not to judge 19th century morality by 21st century standards. It may as well be an alien world.
>>727311376F(ifth)PBP
>people are trying to pin OoT vs TPNintendo wins either wayDon't see the point.
>>727329639no, not really.its more like judging an old car by modern standards. as amazing as it was at the time, the ford model T is a piece of shit. as amazing as it was at the time, the musket is a terrible firearm.as amazing as it was at the time, the wright flyer was a shitty airplane.
>>727311294>it's a fuckingThe whole thing?
>>727330203Just like how, for how amazing it was at the time, OoT has shallow 1-button combat, an awful frame rate, and empty overworld, clunky item swapping, and an awful save system that forces you to spawn at 1 of 2 points when you’re not in a dungeon (your house as a kid or temple of time as an adult).By modern standards, this is all bad.
>>727311189>>727311376
>>727330360oot aged like milk.
>>727311376thread closed
>>727312475Move LttP up 1 tier and the ubislop games down 5 tiers and we'll be in business
>>727330203stfu zoomer retard you can't even get your own analogy right
>>727311189theres judging it by modern standards and still enjoying it regardless, and then theres just using the fact that its old to be contrarian and say its shit. i enjoy retro games, and ive played many that have aged phenomenally, but still have issues that are due to their age. Mario 64's camera sucks, for example. its just an issue i can look past cause the rest of the game has aged so well.
>>727311378>Article asking why Gen Z doesn't buy modern games.pngSorry but DEI slop isn't fun.
tech industry has never recovered from firing all the white guys and replacing them with fecaloids
>>727311294
>>727311189The game was never intended to satisfy modern standards so it's a bit weird to pretend that it was. I think it's better to try to enjoy the game on its own merits and not force a foreign and transient standard on it.
>>727330740>>727330485lol, eat shit, your precious golden idol is trash.
>>727312159this, and ootsnoys and wind waker cubies always bitch about botw being empty lol
>>727311189>WHHHHHAAAAAAAA WHY THIS PONG SHIT RUNNING ON A FEW DOZEN TRANSISTORS CAN'T DO RAYTRACING???this is you, retard OP
>>727312159I grant you it's mostly empty, but it takes minutes at most to go from one side to get other. BotW wastes infinitely more of the players time by comparison. You only bolster grandpa's game
Play retro game>game starts almost immediately>gameplay focused >story is secondary with simple premise>gameplay is extremely fun with little to no handholdingPlay modern game>1 hour long introduction where you occasionally press X to [boring shit]>gameplay constantly interrupted by walking sections>story is the main focus with characters constantly yapping making quips>story is a deep and emotional journey about becoming a better man and embracing cuckoldry>gameplay is bloated with uncessary RPG mechanics and crafting>companion characters never shut up, constantly tell you what to do, give out solution to puzzles the moment you arrive
>>727333775>gameplay is extremely funBecause Prince of Persia on the SNES is so much more fun than Ninja Gaiden 4, Final Fantasy VII Rebirth, Cyberpunk 2077, and Armored Core VI.So much more fun.
Why have shitposters made Ocarina of Time such a target in the past few years anyway?
>>727334003I'm glad you agree
>>727335297Because in hindsight it’s a very flawed game with a lot of technical and gameplay issues.>20FPS.>High 1st person aiming sensitivity with no targeting reticle.>Awkward and time consuming item swapping.>Rupees have no actual use.>Save/restart location system is flawed when not saving in a dungeon.>The platforming is automatic.>All dungeon bosses boil down to “use dungeon item -> slash with B, repeat”.Need I go on?
>>727335297Zoomies and Alphas can't understand things from before they were born.Retards who listen to some e-celeb who probably called OoT overrated for easy engagement.Snoys, despite allegedly winning all console generation, can't help but uncontrollably seethe at anything Nintendo and specifically Zelda, for whatever reason.
>>727334003now you're getting it
>>727311189No you polish them up via emulators and then talk shit about modern standards
>>727311189>posts an old game>not a retro game
>>727311376rip OP
>>727311189because that would be disingenuous you tard.new stuff is built on the shoulders of the older junk.doom may not hold up 100%, what with no mouse look, but it basically invented (popularised i guess) the concept of FPS games.hell, half the newer games are just reusing the retro games stories.
>>727311189N64 is not retro
