Was he wrong?
He ain't wrong
a real chef should build his own oven
What? You don't like endless UE5 slop?
I mean strictly speaking yes.But a lot of current industry problems could be solved if people started building their own engines again.Like how Deltarune had to sit in development hell for like a decade because Gamemaker was not actually ready for a game like Undertale, much less a game that's currently like twice as big.
Simple facts.
>>728725137yes, but many chefs appear to be unable to beat frozen pizza with their own made from scratch pizza sadly
>>728725137>didnt code in assemblyKWAB
>>728725234The real hardcore chefs do make special ovens from ancient Italy and shit with flames
>>728725137Considering his "engine" was a horribly optimized piece of shit running in Java I don't think he's one to talk.
Troons need to lay off the drugs.
>>728725137Ummm... is this guy generating his own electricity, OS, crafting his own computer parts, etc?
when i get access to ai that can make gamesi will ask it to make low poly clones of AAA games
>>728725137Notch literally used java though
>>728725137>It's like a c who can only make pwhat did he mean by this
>>728725137Yes because the most hyped up indie game of this year was made on a pre existing engine and made $140 million as a result. “Build your own engine” is cope for those were never going to try to justify not trying
>>728725137>He didn't mine the precious metals to manufacture his own microchips to make his own OS to make his game engine to make minecraftNotch basically did nothing.
>>728725137same with devs that use ai
>>728725539Well he did rip off zachtronics, maybe he was just self-aware for a moment
>>728725747show me on the doll where the ai hurt you
>>728725539to be fair, you can write a game engine in java>inb4 b-b-but he didn't use Holy C (homebrew self optimizing compiler written in clisp btw) + handwritten assembly fed with magnetic tapes into a mainframe!
>>728725504based, I've always wanted that, the same gameplay and visual style but runs smooth on anything
>>728725137>food analogy
>>728725348>doesn't manufacture his own transistors and CPUs>doesn't mine his own copper and silicon
>>728725587
>>728725306Toby Fox doesn’t have the programming skill to make his own engine. He’s a very middling programmer that is carried by his game design skill, character designs, and writing skill
to be fair some games are larger scope than a java Lego ripoff and it's unreasonable for a single person to do everything but they should have the ability to make a java Lego game
>>728725234ding ding dingThey should also forge their own pans, utensils, and grow the food from seed, raise and slaughter the animals for meat... etc etc
>>728725539that's like complaining that he didn't create the planet from which the metals came that were eventually used to create his computer. we're just talking about the software.
>>728725932He literally admited that his game looks like shit on purpose so people would expext less from itHe's a faggot
>>728725137pretentious, but i guess there's some truth in that.then again, he's just "the minecraft guy". there is literally nothing interesting he has made before or after it.he's probably a pretty great programmer, but why should a programmer even make a game engine if they're not making interesting games anyways? at that point why not make something more imteresting instead of a table for playthings?
>>728725137I remember ordering a pizza at my local tavern once and I paid like four times as much as I would've paid at the store.
>>728726141*interestingfuck me
>>728725137and build your own cpu, write your own coding language, source your own electricity
>>728725137If you didn't build a game engine in binary, you're not a real programmer.
>>728725137he didn't even make his "own" game /v/ did
>>728725137Yup, this is why I say Sandfall and now CDPR are amateur fake devs.
>>728725137shitty analogyit's more about being a chef who doesn't grow his own produce, which also is a retarded premise
>>728725137This would apply only if the cook's requirement would be to grow and create the ingredients himself, not the dish itse.f
>>728725137e33troons really didn’t like this one
>>728725137>he didn't become a god and create an entire universe from scratch fake game dev
>>728725932I'm not saying he, personally, does, what I am saying is that it might have been worth it to get in touch with an engine developer. Rather than get bounced around the absolute fucking state of prefab engines before going back to gamemaker and then waiting for literal years for yoyo-games to "solve" the issue he was having by letting him partition games into smaller chapters.
>>728725137Dev here. Anyone who deserves to call themselves a programmer certainly CAN make an engine. However the time it takes to make an engine can be enormous. For the vast majority of developers using an engine like Unreal is easily the best option.
>>728725137Not at all. I’m using UE5 blueprints to make my game and I have NEVER referred to myself as a “programmer” because it’s not programming.
>>728725814can you write a good one
>>728725306Nigger... that piece of shit sat in development hell for a decade because the tranny can't program a rpgmake game
>>728725137So he is not a programmer
>>728726649Being a programmer just means you can write programsIf we're going to be semantic fucks you should be saying anyone willing to call themselves a game developer should be able to write a "game engine" but even that's a qualifier so fucking broad that anyone who's done a beginner exercise of making pong in C has made a game engine.Which wraps back around to the issue that anyone who can write software is a programmer.
>>728725137Does anyone think that Game Freak makes good games because they have their own inhouse engine running on their hardware?
>>728725539>Java is a game engineRetard.
>>728725137What do you mean you're a chef if you can't extract and refine the gas you cook with?
>>728725137The only good custom engines in the AAA still being used is.Frostbite = Battlefield 6Decima = Death Stranding/HorizonRAGE = GTA and RDR2I would have added RE engine but after Dragons Dogma 2 and Monster Hunter Wilds. The RE engine cannot do big opening maps without eating shit
>>728726141Minecraft isnt interesting? Its one of the biggest, most influential pieces of media ever. Microsoft found it so interesting, they paid him 2 billion dollars for it. What the fuck are you talking about?
>>728727030he also uses prebuilt kitchenware (external dependencies, yikes) instead of smelting his own pots and cutlery inhouse
>>728725137Terry Davis told us this years ago. Don't be a nigger like Linus, make your own game engine, make your own compiler.
>>728727046>not open source>cost million of dollars to maintain>multiple people work on the game enginea single person cannot make a decent unreal engine competitor >b-but godot!!!still shit
>>728726649Dev here too.>Anyone who deserves to call themselves a programmerSee thats the problem, back in the day you coudn't go to a "programing school" like today. Now you have tons of retards graduating from subpar universities with that title. They can't code for shit, their professors don't' work in the industry because why the fuck would you be a professor if you did?So what you get is tons of retarded students that learned to code from subpar teachers that don't even teach version control to kids. What you end up is tons of people on paper called programmers but in practice it's a scriptie kiddie code monkies and worse now it's vibe coders.You'll spend more time reviewing their bad code and making fixes instead of doing your own job.
>>728725137
>>728725137says the one with the easiest game engine, no?
>>728727128>dude lego the gameBesides Notch literally copied the idea off someone else
>>728727128I mean I don't want to be a pedantic fuck but minecraft is almost entirely carried by mods and being a chatroom.The actual game itself is total dogshit, even if we're going back to before notch sold it.
>>728726992Do you have downs?
>>728726869Anyone can be a programmer since notch didn't specify how simplistic or complex said engine needs to beJust write a simple higher-or-lower number game
>food analogyAll those "mom and pop" ice cream shops just add their individual flavoring to base ice cream bought wholesale from a creamery.
>>728727046that was already a problem back in Dragon's Dogma, the original ran like utter dogshit on ps3. the RE Engine is kicks ass at closed spaces with moody lighting and explodes the second you need it to model out more than 50 feet
>>728727208I mean the problem with what you're saying isn't that people need to take up the skills to make a competitor to unreal engine.Only that they need to make an engine that's adequate to what they're making.
>>728727128No, it's notChildren and manchildren being autistic does not make a game interesting or goodA game being literally a mod hub does not make it interesting or goodRemoving either of those two, you have a game that no one would have ever know it even exists
>>728725137>mr.never-wrong is never wrongwhat a surprise
>>728727320Yes, that's the point I made stupid.
>>728727215Truth. Its a tough job and most people are cut out for it. The now dated promise of an easy job with high wages drew a lot of people who never should have been into the field into it and now so much software is going to become unmaintainable in the years to come.
>>728727621*Ahem Most people are NOT cut out for it.
>>728727237Yes, he did lift the core ideas for how the world is generated from a different game about caves, but mojang expanded on the idea a lot from there.>>728727258I remember playing the game in alpha. /v/ was obsessed with it. The update that added hunger was enormously controversial here. You cant scroll the steam store for 15 seconds without hitting a game that is visibly influenced by minecraft. I said "biggest and most influential piece of media ever", I did not mention quality.>>728727398I said big and influential - two factors that contributed to microsoft's corporate interest in purchasing the game and milking it for all its worth. Your stance on the game's quality does not conflict with my statement. You should work on your reading comprehension.
>>728727976>I said "biggest and most influential piece of media ever", I did not mention quality.I mean the point you were disagreeing on was that the game was interesting, which isn't at all what people like about it. (Least abrasive game to build a cool castle in and show said cool castle to your friends)
>>728725474>planestine flag trannygger btfo by notchI love this timeline.Nuke palestine. Trannies 41%. Fuck niggers.HH.
>>728726649>>728726869I had an old boss that argued that scheduling shifts is a form of programming kek.
>>728726869Yes, any nigger can write code. But writing anything worth a shit is not the same.In the same way that you could call a toddler hammering a nail to two wood blocks is a woodworker.
>>728725137>why yes I do use food analogies, how could you tell?
>>728726025>wack ass reductionist food analogy fails to recognize that Farm To Table is a thing for a reason>wack ass reductionist food analogy fails to recognize that great chefs build their own hardware all the time, basically nobody of consequence in barbecue is using an off-the-shelf smoker, they’re custom built.>wack ass reductionist food analogy thinks there is no meaningful distinction of kind between not forging your own cutlery from raw iron and chromium, and microwaving a pizza bagel and putting it on your menu
>>728725137>fat ass makes food analogy poetic
>>728728179A horrible train crash is so interesting that most people cant look away from it, but that doesnt make the event itself a good thing. Interesting is a pretty neutral term. Fortnite must be interesting to a ton of people even though I do not care for it. Minecraft has left a clear, indelible mark on gaming, for better or worse; its crazy to me to say that its not interesting. No Man's Sky, for instance, probably would not exist in its current form if minecraft didnt show the world that millions of players find collecting junk in randomly generated worlds endlessly interesting.
>>728728965>no carbon in your cutleryLOW GRADE TRASH
>>728729271Fortnite isn't interesting either, that's why Tim Sweeny has to negotiate new brand deals every week to imitate roblox
>>728725137No, it's like a chef that can't make an oven. The standard is retarded.
>>728725137I mean he did made his own using java out of all fucking language which still rapes the game.
>>728725137The original Minecraft engine is one of the most unoptimized piles of shit that exist
>>728729406Okay. There is some twisted irony to being in a thread discussing the semantics of the term "programmer" and then arguing the semantics of a totally different word. I guess I'll just enjoy that irony and leave.
>>728729461How is it in any way like that?
>if you are using the paint bucket you are cheating>if you are using an engine from other person you are cheating>if you are using AI you are cheatingtale as old as time.
It's simple really, you make your own engine if you want the most control of what the game plays and looks like. But as a consequence of this, you massively delay the game because a lot of extra time is spent on the engine and not purely building the game, and then if you have issues they become much harder to solve as well because the engine is your own creation without documentation or other outside help available to help solve or fix anything, and you will also if working in a team, need to train people to use the engine too.Look at the insane messes that FFXV and MH Wilds are, which all result from insisting on trying to do certain things with their own engines.
>>728726649Pragmatically speaking, making your own shit is the last option when all others have been exhausted or discarded for not suiting your needs. Not just in game development, but in literally any field.
>>728729735That's not even ironic either, that's just incidental.
>>728725137I'd trust a frozen pizza over the creations of some pretentious chef.
>>728727215Real as fuck. The worst interns/juniors I ever had in my teams were by far the university graduates.At least the technical degree / bootcamp kids could be put to work because they were taught real world stuff, even if they were underprepared.Nothing as funny as a fresh college grad trying to tell me how to do stuff when he hasn't had a single day in the real world, just because he has a paper that says he graduated.That's the way of the world. You think anyone had the balls to tell John Moses Browning that he couldn't be the best gun designer ever seen by mankind because he didn't graduate from a college? Nope.
>>728725234So, game devs should build their own computer parts, and build their own methods for electricity?
>>728725137It's funny how Minecraft somehow gets a pass for running like shit with its graphics.
>>728727128>Minecraft isnt interesting?>nothing interesting he has made before or after itcan you read?
>>728730572So the chefs should construct their own municipality and logistics?
>>728728332shalom
>>728732313Nuke palestine and nuke israel nigger
>>728725137>no true scotsmanWhy is this argument so prevalent recently?
>>728732396Identity politics has taken over the world.
>program in "C++">read: C but with member functions and operator overloads>don't touch RAII>be happy
Not everyone can be like Terry Davis
I think Notch would be proven wrong if it could be shown that Minecraft could have been made in a game engine without any loss in quality.
>>728725137>People Who used RenderWare in early 2000 are faggotsLmao, what a dumb cunt
>>728732751based, as GOD intendedwhat compiler though?
>>728730572Congrats.You failed to spot to more appropriate analogy but doubled down with an even worse one.Video game developers/Programmers:Use/Tools: EnginesMake: GamesChefs: Use/Tools: OvensMake: FoodSo no, a programmer not making the tool he is going to use is not the same as a chef only making one kind of food.A chef building their own oven is completely analogous to a programmer making their own engine.
>>728725137>>728725234Kek jeets seething
>>728733995I use g++ but I'm not tribal about it.
>>728726649You forget the part that unreal is CHEAP. Its literally the most accessible engine for any poor developers out there
>>728725137Absolutely.If someone knows how to draw and do 2D art, but not 3D modeling, are you going to say they aren't an artist?What's next? Say they aren't programmers if they didn't make their own compilers?
It's an issue of employee training/retention. When your company is a revolving door of employees as all the plebs hop around to a new job every 2 years, standardized tools instead of custom engines become preferred.
>>728726798>reading comprehension
>>728734553>Say they aren't programmers if they didn't make their own compilers?Not even that, they need to build their own operating system first
>>728725137of course>RPGmaker success
>>728725137B 4 5 3 D453D
>>728725434>running in Java
>>728725137Mental illness the post
picrel is one of the most famous cooks and his restaurant was still getting three Michelin stars when he was just delegating work to his apprentices
