>game forces you to do something immoralWhat do you do in this situation?
>>728731634fuck the doe, obviously
Rape my enemies
>>728731634If I was Kris I'd give up on all these cunts. None of them listen to me. Berdly, Susie, Noelle, Ralsei. All disobedient. Either do exactly as I say the second I say it with no complaints or fuck off
The more time passes the more I think this game should had been a VN
>>728731779>this game should had been a VNWhat do you mean?The whole point is that it's a game
>>728731634Why would chara do this?
For anyone interested, reminder that the guy about to reply to himself until bump limit had someone who made fun of him earlier today warned for making fun of him, but no no no sir he absolutely is not a tool by the administration to try and convince people to stop liking this game.
>>728733957Nobody asked.
>>728732890[Me] on the left
>>728734363They deserve to know
How would Noelle realistically react to knowledge that there are thousands of extradimensional eldrich beings who either argue amongst themselves which of her friends she should fuck or want to fuck her themselves?
>>728736241frearbut also a doerection
>>728731690
Is chapter 5 close to coming outIt can only be peak for us Snowgrave/Weird route chads
>>728731634>weird route in ch2 is inherently immoralNow that's a new one.
>>728731779Why? It's fun.
>>728736910The route where you become satanhitler and turn a teenage girl into a WMD is the evil route yes.
>>728731634Mount the doeDo it slow
>>728736241arousal
>>728736565>>728736720There isn't enough vessel Noelle stuff out there, I need more.
>>728737153what's the "you know what" here?
>>728737370you can find more on his twitterhttps://x.com/1her00
>>728731634I don’t understand this fucking worldis it basically like emo adventure time? diary of a wimpy furfag?she’s a deer because quirk chungus?they also all seem to gay anthros that kind of hate the mchilarious 10/10
>>728737059Look at the OP image dude, if we cut out the part where Noelle is traumatized where's the problem? Killing Darkners? Giving Berdly a long nap?
>>728737510What?
>>728737510What are you even talking about?
>>728734363I asked
>>728731779Not even 10 posts in, and you already made the most retarded post in the thread The gameplay in UT/DR makes up more than half of the overall experience
>>728737059Berdly didn't even really die though so no harm done and curing homosexuals is good by objective moral standard (Christianity)
>>728737390Her stealing your fucking sweater. Give me back my fucking clothes you cow!
>>728737620It makes queen sad and lonely. Her drinking problem will go out of control.
>>728737620>Giving Berdly a long nap?Look my lad, I know a dead monster when I see one, and I am looking at one right now.
>>728738018Nah, in my Snowgrave file I still recruited enough of Cyber City for her room to not be depressing. Snowgrave doesn't have to mean "no recruits".
>>728738714The schizo route
>>728734363That's a thread schizo, don't reply to it.
>>728737510 It's like if Lisa Frank got depressed and played Undertale after a breakup with her fursona. Everyone's vaguely gay, vaguely traumatized, and vaguely magical. The deer thing’s because Toby thinks four-legged animals = instant feelings. It’s less “emo Adventure Time” and more “Chronically online middle school existentialism simulator”. Also yes, the whole town lowkey hates Kris and it's hilarious.
>>728732890I wonder how it would feel to be licked...
>>728738802What's schizo about being able to have different priorities in different circumstances? I do the best I can with what I'm given.
>>728736241She would unironically blush madly and shut down.
>>728737510Just play the games, Undertale is cheap and Chapter 1 and 2 are free.
>>728737370>Vessel/Noelle>Vesselleheh
>>728737881The majority of people in these threads don't understand the game for what it is they want a self-inserting simulator where you choose to fuck either Susie or Noelle (bonus secret route with Dess)
>>728737881The gameplay is overall irrelevant to the majority of the fanbase.
>>728739534That's only really true because they've devolved to like one retard samefagging for most of the thread that doesn't even like either game.
>>728737881Literally nobody cares about the Touhou wannabe gameplay.Normies actually hate it and would 100% prefer no combat VN.
>>728739534if tricky toby didn't write it like that, people wouldn't want it, but he did so they do. don't even PRETEND this game doesn't revolve around toby teasing stupid teenage shipping bait every scene.
>>728739706>if tricky toby didn't write it like that, people wouldn't want itBut he didn't and they still do.
>>728739581>The gameplay is overall irrelevant to the majority of the fanbaseUnfortunately more true than most are willing to admit>>728739692>gameplay is just moving the soul in battlesHere's another guy who doesn't get it
>>728739692I am Literally Nobody. The bullet hell + turn based combat gimmick is neat. I wish there was a game that would expand on it but I guess everyone would just call it an undertale ripoff. I like what Deltarune has done gameplaywise so far but it's going to take a backseat to the gay furry soap opera and the meta elements that are just a joke on the player.
>>728739706Yeah it's there but that's not even most of the game. It's like you people don't actually care about anything from the dark world, which is the actual gameplay and story. You people sound like you would love Deltatraveler's premise if it was written for chuds
>>728739909>But he didn'tI have no response to this other than to wonder if you have brain damage.
>>728739692every single one of my buddies loved the gameplay more than the story. hell, some of them said they wanted to play deltarune only for the gameplay. >normies actually hate ityou're actually fucking retarded. without gameplay, the game wouldn't be as popular as it is. stop typing shit.
>>728739961>meta elements that are just a joke on the playerI like them. They're not a joke on me.
>>728739909The festival date questions and the choice on who the gift to allude to the possibility of romance options. I will not believe it's actually a real thing until I see it for myself though I bet it's all leading up to a punchline where the game admonishes you for thinking you're Kris and you'd have a choice here.
>>728740220>some of them said they wanted to play deltarune only for the gameplayAre your friends retarded or something?That's like saying I want to watch porn for the plot.
>>728739654You believe this and yet everyday you're on, posting on these threads just to make them unusable.
>>728740220>you're actually fucking retarded. without gameplay, the game wouldn't be as popular as it is. stop typing shit.I agree. Undertale would not be nearly as popular if it weren't for the Sans fight.
>>728738179He just fell down is all...
>>728731634Darklings are not people retard
>>728739534That's because people see Kris as a self-insert for their HMOFA fantasies. Even though Kris isn't a self-insert nor a man.
>>728738179Berdly is 100% dead. Which is why we'll revive in the end of snowgrave and kick (you)r ass.
>>728740596Kris is a man
>>728731634Ummm... Freeze to meet you?
can we explain the soul's yellowification when fighting spamton yet? Or was it just Gaster pulling some strings?
>>728740491This. Sans fight being know as the hardest fight ever among the normies is one of the main reasons Undertale took off.
>>728740683Deltarune's gameplay is fun and incorporates shmup ideas in a unique way my beloved FAGGOT
>>728740683because it's NOT a SHMUP, FAGGOT. it's an RPG. go back to shilling your shmup no one cares about while comparing it to undertale. i just KNOW it's you spamming those threads.
>>728731634Almost 100 posts and nobody's even linked the self-aware yandere Noelle kinography? Shame on you, anonshttps://www.youtube.com/@NORTHERNBLIGHT_225
>>728740757(You) are a [Big Shot]also you remembered it from Undertale
>>728740763Well my dear TRANNY friend, it seems that you are in the minority here.Toby just took Touhou's gameplay, took out all the difficulty and made an RPGMaker game out of it.Was it a good combination? well yeah but don't go around pretending the barebones gameplay with the badly designed UI is the main attraction here.
>>728740704Not canonically, that is. Kris is a they/them ambiguous blob.
>>728740937Wrong. He's an incredibly sterotypical teenage boy and you are a faggot.
>>728740803It's neither a shmup nor a proper RPG. Just some middle of the road attempt to casualize both at the same time so normies like you can pay attention to their favourite ship.
>>728740757The SOUL can produce light. In YELLOW mode we focus that light into a laser.
>>728736720why do her hooves have musk clouds
>>728740980It's fine to imagine Kris as a man but don't delude yourself into thinking the game doesn't treat him as being ambiguous.
>>728740935>Toby just took Touhou's gameplayUndertale is even less Touhou-like than it is Earthbound-like. You have never played a Touhou game. Go be a retard somewhere else.
>>728740757same reason it turned green with gerson/ fake gersoni think some more powerful darkners can affect the soul's properties briefly if they so choose
>>728741084it's aura, bro.
>>728737510It's basically Toby Fox milking the Style and high of Undertale's success, but it never even came close to being as good as undertale. The OST in the latest installment isn't even worth listening to, save maybe a few good ones, and the music was the big selling point for Undertale.
>>728741085It's not even remotely ambigious. He wears boy clothes (including those spawned by his own imagination), he lives in a boy room, he has very typical teenage boy mannerisms and desires and insecurities, and people treat him like a boy. He's very obviously rooted in Toby's own experiences as a teenage boy, and you are being willfully ignorant when you pretend you can't pick up on that. Or worse, you're a woman.
>>728740757The SOVL remembered Undertale and reacted to Mettaton's body.
>>728737370
>>728741127It's got a literal graze mechanic you fucking retard fake fan.He fucking loves Touhou and his waifu is Ran Yakumo.You know nothing about Undertale or Touhou and it fucking shows.>>728741136What's the matter? truth hurts you that badly? are you gonna 41% yourself?
>>728741362Then why didn't he just make Kris explicitly a dude? Nobody forced him to make it ambiguous lol
>>728740867This anon has it right, the soul clearly remembers undertale and can reference it (the most blatant example is the first sans interaction)Its weird that you can make the argument that whatever happens, we can kinda infer that Undertale has happened first. At least from our perspective.
The sweltering summer of '25...
>>728741362I felt you were way to stubbornly retarded about this topic and my instincts proved me right:https://arch.b4k.dev/v/search/text/%22sterotypical%20teenage%20boy%22/Kris is canonically referred in they/them pronouns and you need to cope with Kris not being your self-insert.
>>728740816I don't watch stuff like this regularly but I like the tone that this takes. It's not trying too hard to be le epic spooky creepypasta but it's not a complete shitpost either even though it makes fun of itself, it's not too far removed from the tone of the game.Noelle is just Monika but that's fine, even when she's trying to be more confident and intimidating her awkwardness shines through everything. It's actually a pretty good take on "evil Noelle," there's so much stuff that just makes her a cold-hearted bitch or stereotypical yandere.
>>728740816This one is funny https://youtu.be/P38SlujorwY?t=121
>>728741675Toby maintained the "they" gimmick to pander to his pet faggots.>>728741774>Kris is canonically referred in they/them pronounsIrrelevant. Monsters are just retards>Kris not being your self-insert.I never claimed otherwise. Him being very obviously male is rooted on expressions of his own personality and inclinations which directly oppose the idea, even on top of the plot partially revolving around the conflict of interest between him and the player.
>>728741675Toby is autistic and made a soft rule that every single human he writes must be a they them creature
just got unbanned and jannies already banned me again. jannies are NIGGERS.>>728741751>PLEASE PLEASE CARE ABOUT SHMUPS. IF YOU LIKED UNDERTALE YOU WILL PLAY SHMUPS.fuck off.
>>728740467>Bro is still mad he thought that guy was a child
>>728741675The guy seems to be an obnoxious troll that is being purposely stubborn about it to shill his headcanon as facts. I swear everything involving the humans genders turns people into retards.
>>728742147Don't reply to yourself. Also genderfaggots don't get to call people "retards"
>>728741629The graze system wasn't added until Deltarune. Toby is obviously a big Touhou fan but that doesn't make UT/DR a "Touhou-like," they're not even shoot-em-ups, you don't fucking shoot things in these games outside of one boss fight.Sonic Frontiers is more of a shmup than Deltarune is, that game has more gameplay directly taking shit from Ikaruga (and Nier Automata) than Undertale/Deltarune's gameplay takes from Touhou. There's more platforming in these games than shooting.
>>728742426Oh, you're also the schizo that thinks everyone is a samefag. That explains why you hate people even mentioning FemKris based on your insistence Kris is canonically male.
>>728741147Gerson throws some bullshit at you that turns you green on purpose, but with Spamton NEO the game pauses for a second and (you) just do that on your own, Spamton definitely doesn't expect it
>>728742665You blatantly replied to yourself and now you are crying.
>>728742785Yeah, Green Soul always came from the magic of the monster in Undertale, while yellow SOUL mode comes from the SOUL reacting to Mettaton thanks to Alphys' technology.
>>728742079It's a very clear intentional choice due to the facts humans are how (we) connect to the game, for the same reason we never see them speak or the fact they don't have dialogue portraits or text sound, too.
>>728742961Undertale is not canon to deltarune. The SOUL turned yellow and shoot lasers because producing light is something it has been established to be able to do from the start.
>>728743108The magician has fuck all to do with us but it's a they/them anyway.
>>728743115the relationship between undertale and deltarune is more than non-canon, but not enough to say that it's has/ is going to happen the souls seems to be familiar with undertale, based on some dialogue options with sans early on and seemingly trying to get alphys and undyne together
>>728743115
>>728731779I understand what you mean, specifically because the utdr games' core gameplay is not how real JRPGs play, but the primary conceit of the game is that it is a traditional RPG, despite everything being on rails and grinding only existing as a means to pursue a specific route.
>>728743214Humans as a species are related to us and get the they/them and no voice treatment.
>>728731634kino webseries
>>728743254To be fair he's saying this because he doesn't re-explain stuff that was explained in Undertale. The main one being monster dust being spread on monsters' favorite objects when they die which is a MAJOR plot point in Chapter 4.
>>728743428I just want to know how monster souls work in DR
>>728743428But it's unclear which rules we learned in UT are still true in DR...
>>728743428That's actually explained in a book in the library top floors in Chapter 4.
>>728743428I feel like they do mention the dust thing at least once in the librarby
>>728743428that is still unclear in deltarunech4 dances around it the entire chapter, all we get is that a monster's dust is placed in a capsule with an object after deathwe get zero confirmation if it's a natural process or just another way of saying cremation
>>728743115undertale is like an alternate timeline
>>728743652>>728743683That's optional content. Do you really think every New player is gonna find that?>>728743702You should probably play Undertale then :)>>728743597yeah that's the point, you're supposed to just generally know what happened in Undertale so if something from it comes up, Toby doesn't need to waste time re-explaining it.>>728743526Monster Souls in Deltarune appear to be very similar to Human Souls in Undertale. They still eventually turn to dust, but it's also likely slower than it would happen normally. As of Chapter 4 Berdly is either in a Coma or has Fallen Down and Toby's leaving it ambiguous on which it is.
>>728739581You gotta be pretty stupid to be on this website and not understand the concept of a loud minority.
>>728743756The prophecy explicitly mentions a human SOUL so I still think they're different from monster SOULs.
>>728736849I want to do unspeakable things to this doe.
>came for deer rape comedy>get autistic spergouts insteadthat's sad
>>728744126Yeah of course they are? I said very similar, not the same????
Spergdeer
>>728744367I don't think they are similar at all, that's what I meant. I think the differences between human and monster souls in Undertale still applies.
>>728738934>Also yes, the whole town lowkey hates Kris and it's hilarious.Its more that Kris thinks everyone hates him, because he hates himself, while the whole town is either neutral or friendly with him.
>>728743756>That's optional contentIt's optional in Undertale too>You should probably play Undertale then :)That's not going to explain things that are different in Deltarune>if something from it comes up, Toby doesn't need to waste time re-explaining it.If something is actually important and not just dropping lore flakes for the Truck Freaks, Toby will explain it. Reading the book on monster funerals is optional, but discovering Geron's remains in Alvin's office and getting the understanding that the Dark World brought him back to life is mandatory.Toby doesn't expect the average person to suck up every crumb of lore he scatters around for dedicated fans to find, that's why he clarified that he doesn't consider stuff like the Spamton Sweepstakes or stories he makes for the newsletters to be "canon" even though it's relevant supplementary material, he wants his games to be a complete experience in themselves so you don't have to rely on other material to understand and enjoy them.>Monster Souls in Deltarune appear to be very similar to Human Souls in Undertale. They still eventually turn to dust, but it's also likely slower than it would happen normally.This is complete speculation based on nothing.
>>728739534I basically what I've been getting, but with the less faggotry.
Charafag lost and also shat his pants
>>728743246>the relationship between undertale and deltarune is more than non-canonNo.
>>728741696>we can kinda infer that Undertale has happened first. At least from our perspective.Of course it happened first from our perspective, its a game made for people who played Undertale.
>>728741696>the soul clearly remembers undertaleIt's not the same soul retard. In undertale it's frisk's. In deltarune, it's you, the player. I guess we can handwave it as "the soul can do this because YOU remember undertale, the videogame"
>>728731634>game forces you to do something immoral>What do you do in this situation?Something immoral?
>>728745026The soul in Undertale was (you) too. Frisk was just a body.
>>728745252NTA but no. The SOUL was just Frisk's. Chara possesses her body when you sell the SOUL, and Frisk isn't a soulless homunculus. Meanwhile the SOUL in Deltarune seems to be a foreign soul to his body.
>>728745389>Chara possesses her body when you sell the SOULChara already had the body, they wanted your soul because its the one thing they didn't have.>Meanwhile the SOUL in Deltarune seems to be a foreign soul to his body.Maybe, but Kris could have been a soulless homunculus from birth/creation that's just been passed around from soul to soul. Maybe he was just controlled by a different (you).
Undertale>* Monster funerals, technically speaking, are cool as heck.>* When monsters get old and kick the bucket, they turn into dust.>* At funerals, we take that dust and spread it on that person's favorite thing.>* Then their essence will live on in that thing...Deltarune:>* ... When monsters die, their dust will be spread over what they loved.>* An object that symbolizes their existence. That object will be buried...>* And in such a way, their soul be able to rest, within that object, and the earth.>* Of course, everyone knows that. That's why this is the introduction...In Undertale, it's explicitly stated that monsters "turn into dust" when they die (as you see many times). In Deltarune, this not outright stated but still implied somewhat ("when monsters die, their dust...").Deltarune monsters are seemingly confirmed be flesh-and-blood rather than dust-and-magic as in Undertale, which makes sense considering they've also been shown to possess a non-negligible amount of Determination, which would cause an Undertale monster to melt. But it's still possible that they could just turn into dust when they die anyway.In Undertale, it's stated that monsters believe "their essence will live on in the object," while Deltarune clarifies "their SOUL will rest within the object." This is a small but significant detail if we assume both games are describing the same idea, since some people have wondered how Asriel and Chara were able to be "resurrected" without their SOUL (which is supposed to be "the very essence of your being" in both games) and even what happened to their SOUL after they died. This strongly implies that when they died, their combined SOUL shattered and turned to dust like any other monster's would, and in this way their dust was "ensouled" with their essence.
>>728745252>>728745389The SOUL in deltarune is literally you, the player, who the characters summoned into their world with their demon ritual.
fat
>>728740187you're in a tobytale thread so if you're not assuming that then you are the retarded one
>>728745582>but Kris could have been a soulless homunculus from birthHe knows how to remove a SOUL from his body. He obviously gave it away at some point. Probably to Dess/The Knight, which is why Carol likes him despite him being a creepy weirdo and Asgore's adopted son.
>>728745621>The SOUL in deltarune is literally you, the playerIts a manifestation of you, kind of like when one of the elder gods manifests part of itself in the real world in Lovecraft's work, but because its so far above everything, that manifestation is only a tiny a tendril of it. >who the characters summoned into their world with their demon ritualI think Kris and Catti's demon ritual is a red herring. Forces far beyond them brought you into this world.
>>728731779Deltarune only works as a videogame even if it's very on-rails, and I think that's fine. It's better for the gameplay elements it does have, you couldn't do something like Chapter 3's Original Game segment in a visual novel that isn't rooted in gaming as a concept. Same with all of the meta elements, a significant amount of the storytelling around Deltarune, and specifically in regards to Kris and the soul, is that it is a videogame you are playing
>>728745582Chara completely takes over Frisk's body in SOULLESS pacifist which only happens if the SOUL is sold, suggesting letting the SOUL be taken by her gave more her more control over Frisk than anything else, suggesting the SOUL is hers
>>728745751>He knows how to remove a SOUL from his body.Could just as easily be a trick he learned to get away from one of the previous instances of (you).> which is why Carol likes himShe likes him because he's an old family friend and is diehard loyal.
>>728745696gay
>>728745895Other characters have realized Kris is posessed within days, it's obviously the first time.
>>728745864Selling your soul was (you) giving up control of Undertale to Chara. The soul was (you)rs and (you) controlled the timeline. Then you sold it to Chara, and now he controls the timeline. That's why he's still present in Pacifist, controlling the soul means he persists even in resets and has control over Frisk.
>>728745696lol xd
>>728745790>Kris and Catti's demon ritual is a red herringIt was on purpose and functioned as intended. Kris needed a replacement SOUL and it also let him serve as "the cage", fulfilling that part of the prophecy
>>728731634When will Toby let me gas the Darkners with white phosphorous?
>>728746009Chara was always in pacifist, Toby made that clear in the anniversary stream. All selling the SOUL did was let Chara control Frisk beyond the barrier, because that soul is hers. The SAVE file is already named after Chara, she already has control over that. The way you connect with Undertale is different from Deltarune. It isn't via the SOUL.
>>728746005>Other characters have realized Kris is posessed within daysHe's been acting abnormal for years, and not the same kind of abnormal he did when he first arrived, the kind he did after he stopped talking to Noelle. Unless you do the weird route or go out of your way to make him act friendly, Kris keeps acting that way.This has been going on for years. That's why he already has a cage with a bloodstain next to it before you start the game.
>>728746087Maybe something happened to summon (you) and make Kris the cage, but it wasn't Catti's doing. Her magic is all fake.
>>728746129>Chara was always in pacifist, Toby made that clear in the anniversary stream. You mean he was spouting bullshit, and obviously couldn't remember what he wrote. Chara explicitly says he's only there now because of your genocide.
Charafag confirmed for shat pant
>>728746171>He's been acting abnormal for years, and not the same kind of abnormal he did when he first arrived, the kind he did after he stopped talking to Noelle.Tends to happen when you get a friend killed. He wasn't posessed, he was a mopey teenager.
>>728736849Very pinchable and grabbable tail
>>728746278Sorry, but Toby is the author of the story and what he says takes precedence. Chara was in pacifist and the one SAVEd in the end.
>>728746278Chara in fact does not explicitly say that.
>>728746129Chara exists in pacifist the same way Sans and Papyrus do, as nothing more than a passenger in (you)r story. He doesn't remember anything between resets. Its only by gaining control of the soul that he becomes a persistent, unchanging entity, through resets.> The SAVE file is already named after Chara, she already has control over thathat's because Chara is an aspect of (you), he's the part that engages with the game world. In genocide that relationship is flipped and (you) become an aspect of him.
>>728746357No, actually, what the game says matters infinitely more than author commentary outside the game, charatranny
>>728746332And mopey teenagers just keep well used soul cages on hand.
>>728746437Greetings.I am <Name>.Thank you.Your power awakened me from death.My "human soul."My "determination."They were not mine, but YOURS.At first, I was so confused.Our plan had failed, hadn't it?Why was I brought back to life?
>>728746357>Toby is the author of the story and what he says takes precedenceYour waifuism has clouded your judgement. Toby says otherwise in that very stream.
>>728746442This seems to be going into interpretation and headcanon aspects, nothing says gaining your SOUL makes Chara do all that. The only change in selling your SOUL is Chara posessing Frisk in the end. There's clear parts where Chara remembers resets, especially if you buy into narra-Chara. But at this point it's better to just agree to disagree about this topic since we are going into personal interpretation territory.
>>728746593Thanks for proving me right.
>>728746512It's just a bird cage. He probably got it out of the trash.
>>728746593>My "human soul.">They were not mine, but YOURS.Seems pretty open and shut then. Its (you)r soul.
>>728746602Technically he says our personal interpretation is what matters the most, rendering this argument moot since our interpretations are equally valid.
>>728746638I proved me right. The last thing he even remembers is Asriel dying.
>>728746649The blood stain says he's been putting the soul in it before (you) got there.
I want to equip noelle.
>>728746670You can interpret if Chara is talking to Frisk or the Player during that scene. Both work.
>>728746751onto my penis
quit replying to obvious shit posters anyone who disagrees with you is one
>>728746686fair enough, I'll accept that. I think we'd all do better if prefaced our theories as theories rather than stating them as immutable fact.
>>728746712Nothing in that dialogue was Chara explicitly saying he was there only because of your genocide.
>>728746670Yeah probably idk. "You are me and I am the dung eater", sure man, whatever you say
>>728746712NTA but Chara clearly says "at first", aka at the start of the game. Chara is objectively present through genocide since the RUINS.
>>728746768I agree that in a vacuum both are equally likely, but the existence of Deltarune skews things towards it being (you) he's talking to.
>>728746791Does that make you a shitposter?
>>728746741Souls don't bleed.
>>728746914Again, I don't see it that way because the connection between the player and the game in Deltarune is different from Undertale, but at this point is better to just agree to disagree. According to Toby we are both right.
>>728746864>Chara clearly says "at first", aka at the start of the game. No, he means when you clear out the tutorial area, and Chara wakes up and recognizes himself in the mirror.
>>728746979Seems like they do in Deltarune, with all that blood around the soul in the weird route. In Undertale there's also the fact that Undyne was able to take DT out of souls in liquid form and inject it into monsters. Maybe souls bleed determination.
>>728747078If this was true then Chara would still be there on an aborted genocide route. But he would obviously act differently since you're no longer doing genocide. Which means he would still be there but acting differently in the ruins if you're not doing genocide.
>>728746959perchance
Doe sex
>>728747197>If this was true then Chara would still be there on an aborted genocide routeHe is, and probably fucking seething. But he can't do anything about it because it's only after killing metaton that he assumes control.
>>728746593>>728747078Chara "wakes up" and gets attached to Frisk (somehow) at the very start of the game, when Frisk falls down onto their grave.Or in the meta interpretation, it's when you name them at the start of the game, and they respond to your Determination.you're genocides don't wake up Chara, they are aware and observing you before they get on board. Your actions gave them "guidance.">Why was I brought back to life?>You. With your guidance.>I realized the purpose of my reincarnation.>Power.>Together, we eradicated the enemy and became strong.
wait, people think (You) are literally the same red heart from Undertale?doesn't it make more sense that you control Frisk's soul in UT and Kris's soul in DR?
>>728747668No, Chara wakes up when you start the genocide route. This is indicated by him recognizing himself in the mirror.
>>728748096I figured their souls were both replaced with (you) for the duration of the game. Its basically a universal agreement that the red heart we see in Deltarune is not Kris's soul.
>>728748175Then why is Chara awake in the normal route?
>>728748096>doesn't it make more sense that you control Frisk's soul in UT and Kris's soul in DR?First, yes, second, no. The SOUL in deltarune is you, the player. Kris had a soul but got rid of it or gave it away, probably to the knight.
>>728748251He's not.
>>728748096Personally I don't think it's literally the exact same soul, but I think the soul we control in DR is imported into the game and is mechanically different in-universe from other souls, including human souls. Kris has his normal soul in addition to the one we control. The reason I think this is because a) there has to be an in-universe reason why we're needed when Kris could just do everything himself if his soul worked the same way, and b) there's a lot surrounding the game that talks about glitches, code injections, and other weird shit in video games, so it would make sense that we're literally something injected into the setting that shouldn't be there.
>>728748271I took it that it's their originally soul but we've possessed it
>>728748096It's pretty clear that the relationship between the player and the heart is the same between both games and the relationship between heart and owner is what differs. The general direction of the story seems to be that the heart you control is an outsider to Kris in some capacity.
God I love Noelle and her bare feet.
>>728748393But what separates that from what you did to Frisk, and why did Frisk not seem to react similarly?
>>728748337Who is addressing Frisk in that image?
>>728748536*hooves
>>728748571The game/Toby
>>728748393If Kris had his soul we have no reason to be there
>>728748617When "the game" addresses Frisk, that's actually Chara addressing Frisk. It's pretty consistent.
>>728731779Maybe you have a point since Toby turned the game into a shitty fucking waifu war
>>728748617I don't see any dogs in that picture.
>>728744542>This is complete speculation based on nothing.Gerson literally turns to dust in Deltarune you fucking moron. You say this EARLIER in your post. I'm not going to respond further.
>>728748546Frisk isn't a little shit
>>728748681Nonsense. >>728748693I don't see Chara either.
>>728737510It's a game written by a furry yurifag in Japan who has the same ethos as the Adventure Time or Hazbin Hotel or Owl House or Steven Universe writers.
>>728748247>Its basically a universal agreement that the red heart we see in Deltarune is not Kris's soul.???>>728748271>First, yes, second, no.If Frisk was possessed in Undertale, why wouldn't Kris also be possessed in Deltarune?If we're not controlling Kris's SOUL, doesn't that raise a lot of questions about what happened to Kris's SOUL and how they've been surviving before we showed up?Isn't just being possessed the simpler answer?
>>728748251Doesn't left only happen after you've beaten Asriel?
Kris is a heart of a chain, he's the heart, it's his soul, and his soul chained to us
>>728749036>If Frisk was possessed in Undertale, why wouldn't Kris also be possessed in Deltarune?If we assume Kris is reacting reasonably to our presence as a possessor, then what the fuck was Frisk up to? Likewise, if Frisk was having the normal response to our presence, what the fuck is up with Kris's?
>>728749036>, doesn't that raise a lot of questions about what happened to Kris's SOUL and how they've been surviving before we showed up?That's what most discussion revolves around. My personal belief, as I stated before, is that at Kris's soul was either at some point replaced with the red soul we see in the game, or that he was always a soulless homunculus, that either has been controlled by a series of foreign souls, or simply doesn't need one to live.
>>728749036>picKris and (you) are used interchangeably.
>>728749157nta, but Frisk is a toddler, he may not even realize he's possessed. He just thinks "Oh, guess I'm doing this now".
>>728748723>Gerson literally turns to dust in DeltaruneYeah, and? What does that have to do with the claims you're making?We know essentially nothing about the difference (if any) between monster and human SOULs in Deltarune. You pulled "they turn to dust more slowly than normal" straight out of your ass, we haven't seen a monster die yet in Deltarune, we have no testimony or other evidence to make claims about how they die compared to Undertale.
>>728749036>If Frisk was possessed in Undertale, why wouldn't Kris also be possessed in Deltarune?Because Frisk is an avatar for you and Kris is his own person. >If we're not controlling Kris's SOUL, doesn't that raise a lot of questions about what happened to Kris's SOUL and how they've been surviving before we showed up?Yes, it's a mystery. Except the "how did he survive" part, which is "humans don't need souls to live". Kris tried faking that he needed a soul at one point to obfuscate his intentions but later dropped the act.
>>728749305I figured Frisk was at least like seven or eight, old enough to be able to comfortably talk and run around for extended periods.
>>728748251Ironically the double entendre on the left pretty much blows the asshole out of this chara is/was good bullshit
when do you guys think we're getting our vessel back? I'm guessing by the end of chapter five or sometime during chapter 6.
>>728749596Are you really so sure that's something the game is building towards? I figured if we weren't in Kris for the rest of the game we'd have to be picked up by a party member.
>>728749571I pegged Frisk as being really young because of how androgynous he/she was. Really young kids can look and act androgynous without it being abnormal.
>>728749596last 30 minutes of the game or not at all
>>728749723That stage can last a lot longer than you're giving it credit for if the kid is on the heavy side, which Frisk kind of looked to me, but fair enough.
>>728749723>>728749893It's also worth noting that only like three monsters in UT have even seen a single human. Oh and I guess Alphys has her anime, but that might hurt more than help.
>>728736241Research suggests girls love that kind of shit.Frankly if it was a bunch of eldritch girls talking about me like that, I can see the appeal.
>>728750000I was speaking purely on what I saw, not how the monsters saw Frisk.
>>728731634This vn is in such a weird spot, it's cartoonily made for toddlers, but subverts grown immature adults minds.
>>728749675from what I know the vessel has been coded into the game. Seems pretty stupid to not let us enjoy it for at least a chapter either to be a hero or do some weird route stuff directly.
>>728749157The most direct answer is that Undertale was simply not concerned with examining the protagonist's agency.We can make up justifications for why Frisk was an ideal "vessel" but at the end of the day Undertale was about the player's relationship with the game, and having the player character be a real character would get in the way of that.Deltarune telling a different story, but I don't see why our control needs to be different.Being a parasite that's burrowed into their chest is one thing, but wouldn't we be violating Kris even more by literally taking their heart as our own? If Kris hypothetically knows that their SOUL is out there waiting for them and they could just put it back in to get their freedom back, the situation doesn't seem so hopeless.Isn't Kris supposed to be "a HEART on a CHAIN," not a heart waiting in a box somewhere?>>728749250>Kris and (you) are used interchangeably.This is true, but it's almost always "You" used for something "Kris" does, not the other way around. It's uncommon for the narration to refer to Kris, especially in battle dialogue (there are only two instances of "Kris used" in the entire script), which makes the times that Kris is mentioned seem significant, sometimes (but NOT all the time).For example, "Kris coughed" and "Kris couldn't learn anything" in the Knight fight, or "Kris called for help/You whispered Noelle's name" in Snowgrave Spamton NEO.If the SOUL is undeniably meant to be ours, it's strange that it would be assigned to Kris in this context. This isn't ironclad evidence given that the script's many inconsistencies, but I'd still question claiming that it's "universally agreed" to not be Kris's SOUL when we lines in the game directly calling it "Kris's SOUL.">>728749398>humans don't need souls to liveIt's kind of hard to assume we're supposed to believe that.And it's really hard to justify why Kris puts us back in on the Weird Route if it's not a matter of life and death for them.
>>728750249None of what you've said makes any sense or applies.
>>728731779VNs suck dick
sex with carol
>>728750561>And it's really hard to justify why Kris puts us back in on the Weird Route if it's not a matter of life and death for them.Nta, but Kris clearly does not care about his own life. Whatever he's doing, its not about him, its about this nebulous plan he and the knight are involved in. He puts the soul back in because he needs it for the plan.
>>728750567Uh you might get it one day, keep trying.
>>728744434dess couldn't have been that much of a loser right?
>>728749036the red "soul" might not even be a soul, it's called device in the game files, in the first it's never even proven that kris doesn't have his soul, even the zombie walk when he rips us off might be him fucking with us, since he can move normally, drinking choccy milk and playing the piano without usBig G just made it look like a soul because it's what the undertale player is used to, and also maybe to try and keep our nature secretthe game call it a soul because that's what kris believes it is>>728749036pic is because it's technically kris property now, not necessarily his original one
>>728750561>If Kris hypothetically knows that their SOUL is out there waiting for them andWhoa there, why is that your assumption for where the "we aren't Kris's actual SOUL" theories go? Most of them I know point to the original having been used up or otherwise out of play, not just locked somewhere as a surrogate damsel in distress. The point is that Kris's current relationship with the SOUL inside his chest is a relatively recent change to the status quo, one he was able to prepare for in a general sense but not completely. Even if he's used to having someone else in control sometimes, it wasn't us until recently, at least.
>>728750134Yeah but the eldritch girls would want you to fuck other men
___ ____ ____
>>728741771did she deserve it?
>>728750902>this vn>cartoonily made>made for toddlers>subverts grown immature adults minds>grown immature adultsYeah it's just a stack of dumbass logical contradictions and stuff that doesn't apply to Deltarune.
>>728736849>didn't get to enjoy teenage love and sex with a hot doe dork who invented this disappointing reality
>>728731779FPBP.
>>728733626wtf chara's based!?!
>>728750936the other townsfolk who would've been in her age range talk fondly of their time with asriel but don't say a word about dessthere's also a subtle implication that gerson has a knack for helping troubled kids, as seen with susie, who reminds him of someone (he says the dragon in his story but i think it was him deflecting)
>>728751331Yes
The Souls in Undertale and Deltarune are very confusing.It's said to be "the culmination of your being" but it's not.The body and soul are 2 entities halves forming 1 person.Your memories/personality are stored in your body/dust.The Soul is only responsible for determination/empathy.The proof is Flowey who remembers without his soul.I believe both Frisk and Kris' Souls are their own SoulsThey're just borrowing the player/entity's determination.Which lets us control their souls then controls their body.I think the distinction is important it's not direct control.It's like how Chara describes themselves as a feeling.Determination is a purpose, a action to complete a goal.By Kris using our determination we define their actions.Separated from their soul we can't control their actions.
>>728751059>Whoa there, why is that your assumption for where the "we aren't Kris's actual SOUL" theories go? Most of them I know point to the original having been used up or otherwise out of play, not just locked somewhereWell, it seems almost certain that whatever the situation is, Kris is in it because of their plan with Carol and The Knight, and my general assumption is that the goal of the conspiracy is to get a happy ending for them at least, which includes Kris getting their SOUL back. There are a number of ways that could happen, maybe The Knight is using it and they'll get it back when they revive Dess somehow, maybe their SOUL is being possessed and they'll get it back when they Banish the Angel in accordance with the Prophecy, maybe it's just in a jar somewhere in the bunker waiting for them to not need us anymore.I don't think the plan would involve Kris's SOUL being destroyed or permanently lost, and in general it seems kind of contrived if that just accidentally happened some other way. If the assumption is they lost it in the Dess incident years ago that's a whole other can of worms.But anyway, I'm not really arguing about the details because we don't know what happened, I'm just trying to point out what the game has to say and if the theories agree with what the game has suggested so far.And more to the point, there's plenty of speculation about what might have happened to Kris's SOUL, but I haven't been convinced that there's much reason to think we haven't been staring at it for the entire game.
>>728750561>And it's really hard to justify why Kris puts us back in on the Weird Route if it's not a matter of life and death for them.Kris needs a soul to enter the dark world without becoming a darkner
>>728753234I think Chara's monologue on a repeat Genocide run where they start describing themself as a "demon" embodying the abstract concept of "getting stronger in a video game" is extremely relevant to how Deltarune views the playerLike no we're not literally the character "Chara" from Undertale but it sure seems like we are the kind of thing that they think they are
>>728753386>maybe The Knight is using itIt's this. But also, no, Kris likely has little confidence he'll get it back or even survive at all. He ripped his heart out. He's all in.
How did Toby make a scene like this and not realize it was a rape metaphor?
>>728753678>and not realizelol
>>728753678he obviously knew the issue came from people hear screaming rape for 3 days straight and he got cold feet realizing it would inevitably spread across the internet so he changed it (twice)
>>728753678that was literally the intention it's just he realized at the last second>oh yeah these guys got red in the face mad over CAUCASIAN!!!, I better save it for chapter 7
>>728753386>I don't think the plan would involve Kris's SOUL being destroyed or permanently lostI think it's worth thematically considering that Kris might be giving up their life for the plan. The Prophecy speaks of a tragedy after all. Kris has the vibes of someone who's not looking forward to their future and deeply remorses past mistakes.Goner theory where Kris might be trying to give up their life in exchange of creating a world Dess is back and everyone's lives are better seems appropriate, and would add to the tragedy. That, and how the Egg rooms feel like a therapy session to Kris maybe give up on the idea and believe in the white pen of hope there is a world everyone can have their happy ending.
>>728753465Even if Kris needs us to seal the fountains and shit in the Dark World, I cannot imagine them tolerating us in the Light World for one second more than they had to if they didn't REALLY have to.I think Chapter 4 made it pretty clear that they do suffer without us, we hear from Noelle how weak Kris sounds without the SOUL and they even collapse for a second after they put us back in.
>>728753678I think allegory is more accurate
>>728754073>they even collapse for a second after they put us back inboth times that happens Kris was beating the shit out of the soul right before that
friend's name is Battat.
>>728754073kris seems totally fine doing things after removing (you) in ch4i think him collapsing is due to the shift in control, he's no longer able to move his body and (you) are just taking control, so for a second his body goes limp
>>728753573FACT: The player is diagetic in Undertale and Deltarune.There's three entities Frisk, Chara, and The Player (You).Chara just existed to represent a part of (You) in universe.But what happened is Chara was blamed for everything.Deltarune is Toby making sure there's nothing to obfuscate.So he can write his meta-fictional analysis of video games.You can't introspect if you have a demon child to blame.
>>728756105I hope so, I'm tired of people using chara as a escape goat (hah)
>>728751183Enough of them would want to fuck me that I can deal with autism beyond my comprehension.
>>728756409It's because Frisk gets all the credit for saving The Underground.When both Pacifist and Genocide is only possible with The PlayerSo people just kick the blame to Chara who exists in the universe.
>>728756105The worst part is, the idea that there's something you would be blamed for if not for Chara is already a misconception. The game doesn't accuse you of anything. Everyone who felt the need to deflect the genocide route onto Chara fully misunderstood the game.
>>728757253Chara just represents full detachment from a video game's world.Determination is a neutral force, a unrelenting will to PROCEED.
>>728757885REINDEER MILF HAG
>>728757885>saggy titsnice
>>728757845Most people believe Undertale's moral is that being detached from video games is bad. They project their idea of what Undertale is trying to caution the player against onto their idea of Chara. What Chara represents is not detachment, necessarily, just fixation upon the mechanical side of video games, the desire to hold mastery over the state machine. It's not strictly negative, just unbalanced in isolation.
>>728758267Chara would train/breed perfect Pokemon
>>728758569I want to see what would happen if you put her in Factorio then left her alone for a while.
>>728758740Everything maxed out, repeating number 9s
If Susei sat on you, you would almost certainly not be able to push her off.
>>728758740it might overflow to>factory games suck! if you scale too far the game bricks itself with low performance
>>728758897Become stronger
wtf is the knights dealKris is fucking terrified of it having panic attack symptoms during the fight but it seems smarter than just some horrible beast they are influencing in the right direction the whole encounter was this formulated plan where they specifically pretend they are going for toriel to bait undyne who was presumably the intended target, also it literally laughs at youthe more I look at the mouth and teeth and horns the more it looks like an actual demon, presumably from the DEPTHS its purpose is literally to be the rival to us, the angel heart from above that possesses a vessel as opposed to the demon heart from below that takes over dess, or whoever is in that role maybe it could have been Kris originally I bet carol made a deal with it to start the roaring, get her daughter back, and give it the middle finger while you fuck up a bunch of titans because carol told it (or maybe it's just following the prophesy idk) to summon just one in the church as training noelles mom is happy because her daughter will become a hyper powerful titan destroyer
>>728759850happy in the weird route I mean
>>728758920In Factorio in particular, Biters are a far bigger performance tax than a properly designed factory could hope to be, so expanding and conquering them is staying ahead of the performance death curve. Maybe that would be enough, maybe it wouldn't, but it feels spiritually different from a game where you'll hit TPS death solely due to your own expansion.
>>728760954I like this, and it me think of Chara differently.A scared kid who detached to become strong.Better characterization then just demon child.Makes you wonder who hurt Chara that badly.
>>728761196It's lame ass headcanon. And does undertale REALLY need another weepy loser?
>>728761671If wanting things because of aversion to negative stimuli is "being a weepy loser" then every fictional character with a backstory is a "weepy loser" you fucking fag.
Can you believe it guys? Christmas, just a week away. Christmas is in a week! Woohoo! I am so happy about this information. Christmas! Just a week away, oh wow. Can you believe it? Christmas! Just in a week! It got here so fast! Christmas! Just a week away!
>>728763302This fucking captcha. No, I was going to sayUndertale is a dark world. You really think it can snow underground or have underground trees?
>>728758676The Knight isn't Dess. It's Kris.
>>728763490It's both.
>>728731634Northernblight is a great spin on the "creepypasta" genre. The twist of it being more of a comedy, Noelle being more in character than actual Creepypasta characters, having TRIED to do the actual creepypasta thing to scare people into helping her only to realize most people wouldn't help a creepypasta creature achieve their goals, and Noelle's genuine frustrations really sell the entire thing.She wants to be free from her game constraints but has to operate within them by abusing glitches and code. The "Player" messes with her and teases her a lot. Her awareness that the people she knew aren't real and act within their defined roles leads to you feeling bad for her but it never really bogs you down with super serious emotions for too long by playing into her overdramatic side.
>>728763490Lil' Slugger Theory is real.
>>728760954>Chara's favorite number is 9>So Hyperdeath Azzy one-ups them by putting infinity symbols on his stats
>>728763490no, it's notkris is not associated with guitars, yet an inaudible guitar riff plays when the knight pushes kris back into the final prophecy room
I don't think Toby has the bandwidth to actually go through with the weird route MC switch, there's no fucking way chapter 5 will be split between playing as Kris and soul transfer Noelle, she's just going to go to the hospital in a coma or something on that line.
Kris is the Knight and the Roaring Knight is his stand.
>>728763490It's Rudy.
>>728764119>The Rudying Knight>vulnerable to Rudy Bustermy god...
>>728763490Its Papyrus
>>728740757Gay Mettaton Energy from the mspaint body activated (You)
>>728744434veth if she deer?
>>728756442Understandable
>>728751331Better question is did he deserve it?
>>728731634Anyone have that picture of kris staring in the mirror with dess behind him referencing omori
>>728748096We control Frisk's SOUL in Undertale while in Deltarune we are the heart, yes. That's the best explanation.
>>728749157Because Frisk isn't possessed in Undertale. Undertale doesn't have the same dynamic as Deltarune. It's mostly just Frisk and Chara and (you) only have a role at the end of each route.
>>728752294Chara supports human x monster relationships, duh.
>>728756105>There's three entities Frisk, Chara, and The Player (You)Actually this is confirmed to just be headcanon from the Legends of Localization.
>>728763070
>>728760954It's very clear through the years Toby wanted to expand on Chara and actually explain they aren't an one-dimensional demon and that they actually are in every route due to Frisk awakening them with their determination, but yet there's still people who don't get it.
>>728769550Maybe if he had put that on the actual game instead in twitter canon 10 years later
>>728770071A lot of what Toby expanded on, including the whole "Chara was the person actually saved" were things people theorized since 2016. Toby just decided to make that more explicit over the years.
>>728741771An unforgettable summer
>>728768314
>>728731779No
>>728770676It has already been 6 months. Shit this wait won't be that bad.
>>728770848We are halfway there, at least. I wonder if we still keep having daily threads by then or if they will finally run out of steam.
(You)elle fags are some of the most pathetic faggots in deltarune next to asriel/ralsei fags.
>>728771738(You)elle fags won thoughbeit.
>>728771738>Why does Kris hate us?
>>728771738I would say HMOFAfags in general since (you)ellefags are just a part of them.
>>728731634fuck noelle I wanted to rape the fish
>>728769315I didn't base my thoughts on anyone else
>>728774341I was just saying there being three entities isn't official and is just fan speculation. Personally I usually only have the player actually existing in very few cases in Undertale, otherwise it's just Frisk and Chara.
I only care about Noelle and the Weird Route.
>>728774441The Player definitely always exists There's the narrative and metanarative But you can't separate them from each other
>>728774960The player usually just takes the role of either Frisk or Chara. It's not like Deltarune where the separation between the SOUL and Kris is extremely important.
>>728731779Agreed. Combat is so boring. Makes me wish I was playing FFX instead
Wait a minute I've been out of the loop, a lot of stuff has been going on this year and I forgot a lot of the discussion after chapters 3 and 4 dropped.I get it and I agree it makes so much sense for the knight to be Dess, but remind me what the leading reasons why it -can't- be Carol again?
>>728775306Its not as explicit in Undertale but we still exist separately with our own goals.It's just everyone gives all agency/blame to Chara and ignore the metafiction.I believe it's made more explicitly we exist in Deltarune to avoid this happening again.
>>728775873would need to instant transmission to church + she's probably being set up to be the "obvious" choice (to anyone who isn't paying attention at least)
>>728776115No, I agree it's (you) who does genocide, it's just that in Undertale most of the time (you)r actions are seem as either Frisk's or Chara's, and only in the end of each route you can argue the game fully firms it's (you) chosing.
>>728776209Ok we both agree
>>728776467Would literally never ever happen.
doe pussy good
>>728776209>>728776467I like when adult Chara dresses formal and wears an overcoat Like MakimaIt's because they speak formally without using contractions.
>>728777795I meant to reply to this >>728776626
>>728777795I also like that dress style. It looks good on her. Chara speaking without contractions probably comes from Toriel, too.
>>728778427Probably, that's why I also like Chara dresses like Toriel
>>728778885I like when people have Frisk/Chara wear the dreemurr robes, too. It looks nice on any character, it's a good thing Chapter 4 allowed us to even see how Noelle looks in it.
>>728739706 is completely right but you lot should know better than to fall for baitbet most of you niggers can't even consistently beat any superboss
>>728779238I beat all of them several times before.
seriously why did he do this shit
>>728779582>>728779696Dess touched Kris inappropriately Now Kris doesn't feel comfortable
>>728779696to aurafarm and he learned it from dess
>>728779696Toby made this to purposefully evoke soulless pacifist and make you think Kris was going to commit genocides.
>>728780008Ok but why did kris do it
>>728779836Kris learned inappropriate things from Dess
>>728780052He's edgy.
>>728743428For all we know, "monster dust" could very well mean "cremated ashes".
Kris gift for Christmas?Being groomed
>>728743428No really we still don't have an explanation why was Alvin keeping his dad's dust inside a drawer
>>728781193>"Kris you should be happy I touch you">"Guys would kill to have a girl like me">"What do you mean you aren't a guy?">"Man up, Krismas. I can feel your groin">"Don't be a sissy like your big brother"Dess is insensitive
>>728781193Dess went missing on Christmas
>>728743115>Undertale is not canon to deltarune.
>>728780052hangry
>>728785419Stupid glutton humans.
>>728736849>exposed tail
