Only 30% of players make it past level 10. A sandbox where you have immediate access to all classes and professions is obviously necessary.
https://www.vg247.com/only-30-of-new-wow-players-continue-after-level-10-says-blizzard.Also, only 10% of lvl 10 characters made it to 60 in Classic. "Characters per account is approximately 1."https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/news/what-if-wow-quietly-revealed-a-9-million-subscriber-number/.
listening to the community is how mmos became dogshit auto battlers
>>728810118What do you mean? QA testers are likely normies with little understanding of what makes objectively good game design, and Blizzard likely doesn't listen to random feedback or forum posts, though maybe listens to streamers.
>>728810290 That's exactly the problem. Devs ignore the actual long-term playerbase and instead cater to flavor-of-the-month Twitch takes or internal analytics that completely miss the forest for the trees. QA can flag bugs, sure, but they’re being treated like design consultants now, which is insane. Instead of refining core mechanics, they slap on systems that look good on a spreadsheet because someone at the top thinks “higher retention = success” without understanding why people played in the first place.
>>728809931>A sandbox where you have immediate access to all classes and professions is obviously necessary.has failed time and time again. WoW is 20+ years and still going strong.Meanwhile how many sanfbox mmos can say that? Oh that's right, NOT A SINGLE ONE. Keep crying gag, wow will never die while sandbox has done nothing but fail over and over.
All video game generals belong on /vg/
>>728810523>That's exactly the problem. Devs ignore the actual long-term playerbase and instead cater to flavor-of-the-month Twitch takes or internal analytics that completely miss the forest for the trees.What's the fix?
>>728811025What A+ sandbox MMO has launched in the past 10 years? 20? Yet ARK and Minecraft have been some of the most played games.
>>728811145An MMO thread a day is fine. Draw threads get to stay on /v/.
>>728809931No.Gatekeep it harder.
>>728811670>I like having linear ilvl pushing as the only thing to do.Where's the emergent gameplay, the gathering, crafting, and trading?
>>728811025>Meanwhile how many sanfbox mmos can say that? Oh that's right, NOT A SINGLE ONE.Runescape.
>>728811527Fuck off, jew. Ark doesn’t have a real player base. They’ll claim to have a6 gorrilion players but really no one plays that shit. More people play Sea of Thieves than that bullshit
>>728811810MMOs where the journey isn't the center of the PvE experience have no right to exist.This genre is about leveling and overcoming the adversity caused by your own weakness.>emergent gameplayThis is caused by cooperation and competition with other players. Wanting to skip straight to max level just means that you've designed a game entirely focused on end-game, probably with auto-queue raids and treadmill vertical progression. Which is to say, your game is better off dead already.
>>728811957>>728811025Also Eve
>>728811957runescape isn’t a game. This board is for the discussion of video games.
>>728812175You can do better than that
>>728812029Not everybody wants to quest. Obviously.
>>728813078>questThe primary way for you to level up should be grinding and farming monsters in the open world.If your level up process is "questing", you're playing a themepark, not a proper MMO.
>>728812175OSRS gets 250k concurrent. Estimates put WoW at 150k-250k.
have you collected everything yet?
>>728813156No because legion stuff is incredibly easy to farm on retail
>>728810118I STILL can't fucking believe they took a game that "failed" originally, cancelled the global launch, remade it under chink supervision, and ended up releasing an even WORSE fucking product than before. Unironically - using my best AVGN impression - what the FUCK were they thinking?
>>728813141Why are you even posting this opinion, as if it's good? People want to play every class and profession, gather, craft, and trade. People want to live in a world.
>>728813671The process of working up towards goals is the reall magic of MMOs. Skipping the process and going straight to endgame is just instant gratification that should have no place in this genre.It's also incredibly boring. What's waiting for you on the other side of the rainbow isn't as great as you imagine.
>>728813861Leveling massively segregates players, makes 90% of the world irrelevant, and has garbage retention.
>>728814021Instantly taking people to the cap alienates everyone who doesn't want to do endgame raiding and makes 90% of the world irrelevant. Let's not even talk about retention.Make a list of every zombie MMO you can think about. Then, go download and play it. You'll notice the same pattern every time.>completely casualized play>rushing new players to max as soon as possible>complete focus on endgameWhat you're describing is the terminal cancer stage of an MMO's life. Making it all about endgame content is what MMOs do when they no longer get any new players.If you like this sort of gameplay, boy you're in luck. So many options to pick from.
>>728809931>>728810086>HURRRThat statistic means that of every single character made players only pick 1 main to play on you STUPID RETARD
>>728814314Why do you think raiding is the only thing to do in a sandbox? What would people do if Minecraft was a themepark? Get diamond gear, enchant it, and have nothing to do.
>>728809931You're joking, but there probably is a large enough market that they could have a sandbox realm that just rotated. Something like how M+ or Challenge modes work. Every couple weeks the realm rotates to a different expansion and patch. Raids would have reduced lockouts. All gear would be on vendors, like on the PTR. They could find a way to score a raid, like percent completion, number of deaths, time, etc. This time the challenge is now well can you do Naxx 60. Next week it's Ulduar using only 3.1 gear. Next it's ICC using all Wrath gear, including RS, etc. There's enough people that like raiding, like only raiding, and don't want to play the MMO part of WoW, because it's either not fun to them or takes too much of a time commitment, that a rotation sandbox realm could sustain a playerbase, especially if it was just tied into the regular subscription anyways like Classic.
>>728814462Only 30% make it past 10, and only 10% of those made it to 60.
>>728815256>there probably is a large enough market that they could have a sandbox realm that just rotated>All gear would be on vendors, like on the PTR.You're joking, right? Give players a full sandbox with a persistent world (no phasing).
>>728814314>Instantly taking people to the cap alienates everyone who doesn't want to do endgame raidingLeveling is approximately only questing, and you can still have questing in a sandbox.
>>728815278So, ~3% of people make it to max? That's awful. A game should have 90%+ (an A).
>>728818226LMAO. ChatGPT says 50% is historically really good. I think it can be done, but you might need to go F2P. I would probably do that and have a real money auction house.A subscription would be really good; I want to see what the difference in retention would be, at least estimated for what the game pulls.
>>728819237Just let people buy tokens with gold. Have a fun economy. Win-win.Gathering, crafting, and trading are the fantasy-meets-reality of gameplay. What else would people do than PvE and PvP? "Economy/money answers everything."
>>728809931>Only 30% of players make it past level 10that's obviously not true, why are you retarded, anon?
>>728819686PC gaming has 1.5B people. It's not hard to believe. It's Blizzard's metric.
So how good is Paladin in TBC? I'm leveling a Warlock right now in Anni but casters are boring by their very nature. I want to smach things.
>>728819905that stat is based on people who play the free trial, so basically brown subhumans who don't count for anything. They were never players and it's a worthless stat.
>>728809931>Only 30% of players make it past level 10For a game that's been active for 21+ years, I very much doubt that.>b..b..but reddit said soShut up troon
>>728820159Don't ask actual questions in the schizo's daily bot thread, idiot.
>>728819237>LMAO. ChatGPT says 50% is historically really good.it made that up you retard. this generation is so fucked man...
>>728820557So what's your opinion on Paladins?
>>728820923In TeeBeeCee? 'eh, they're alright.
>>728821065I hear they're very good tanks.
>>728821123Probably. I haven't played TBC since it came out, and I did play Protadin back then. Did very well, but gearing to get raid ready was a major PITA, since their requirements were so much higher than the other two options. Dunno if they're still comparatively as strong, since it's been 2 decades and the meta's likely shifted with just about everything being solved by this point I expect, a la what happened with classic compared to vanilla. Can't say Prot was particularly fun or engaging to play in TBC either, but hey, it's TBC; only like 2 or 3 specs feel 'fun' to play after having experienced the classes as they'd come to play in later expacs like Wrath or Cata, and certainly none of those fun specs were tanking ones. If yer gonna have fun with them, it'll just be because you like tanking.
>>728811527>what is an mmo>mInEcRaFT
>>728820279>that stat is based on people who play the free trialAnd paying customers. So what?
>>728821619>Implying implications.
>>728822365I shiggy diggy.
>>728815278>>728818226Because people make tens of characters you dumb moron stop samefagging and making these stupid threads
>>728822769>Blizzard obviously meant 10% of *characters* make it past 10.>Characters per account is 1 anyway.
>>728809931I enjoy XIV, but I do want something that's way more like... Dunno, Fantasy Life but an MMO
>>728823952I miss New World. I really like how realistic everything looked, sounded, and played. I want to go chop wood. Too bad they made it a themepark.
bot thread
>>728824110>Can walk and run with 1,000 pounds.>Can't swim.
Turtle WoW
>>728810290what QA testers?
MMOs suck because they took the "numbers go up" too far which causes level stratification which makes most of the world useless which causes endgame obsession.
>>728822945>Including dead accounts and dead characters on alive accounts You failed at high school math and it shows.
>>728824450Blizzard surely has QA testers.
>>728824570Leveling should be replaced with just gear.
>>728824585>Implying.
>>728824715Isn't that what most games go for tho? You have an inconsecuential level curve for each expansion that basically is a breathing period for you to learn how yor skill changes work, then you're back at equipment grinding for the next couple years
>>728824651WOW's scaling and general gameplay is so fucked up that they definately don't have any QA testing outside of M+ and Raids, and even that seems to be lacking
>>728824802It's still linear ilvl pushing. A sandbox would have material repairs and perhaps full gear trading.
>>728824816I think they QA test all of it. Why wouldn't they test quests?
I think I would be a really good game tester. I always find bugs.
Trinity is *really* good. Any arguments?
>>728825192Tank sucks because of fags crying about queue times.
>>728825239I used to Blood tank, and it was *really* fun. I would top AOE damage.
>>728824651they laid off most of their QA team 2 years ago
>>728826097How many did they have?
Bot thread
Trolddom is unironically better. It's everything great from vanilla wow without the all the modern shit that made everything after tbc released garbage
>>728826910Not even a WoWtroon, but you're clearly that shill that keeps making threads about that game.
>>728826910>tile based>pixel graphics>still has fetch 10 bear testicle generic quests
What MMOs are you playing, /v/?I want to try OSRS.
>>728828473Dofus
>>728828473Turtle WoW. It's fun
>>728809931These games are just chat games with thematic skins. WoW is a chat with a Warcraft skin and purposes in those games are always very simple and void. People get addicted because of the virtual relationships with their guilds.
>>728809931How long are you going to keep making these threads?
>>728829395Poor man's MMO
>>728827149sovl
>>728809931>Only 30% of players make it past level 10.Who cares? Why is that important?
>>728829990What's poor man's about it?
>>728809931And access to immediate burnout and boredom
>>728829395It's turn based?I don't think it's what I'm looking for (a sandbox).https://chatgpt.com/s/t_6944c8ff01548191b76c2fb6066f3c0c.
>>728829787I don't want to play private servers.
>>728829919I've had plenty of fun pugging and such without chatting with anybody.
The best way to make an mmo is to create a non-mmo franchise to develop a fanbase with no maintenance fees or server costs and then do a cash crab mmo off the hype.
>>728830065It's garbage retention. It might even be less (except to 20) now that it has F2P.
>>728833261OK, and? Why should I care, as a player, that a large number of normgroids stopped playing?
>>728832604>3% of players make it to max.>Oh, but the opposite wouldn't work.
>>728833217A few developers is enough to make a few characters and a zone per day and have an MMO in a month or two.
>>728833345Because *you* care. Social relevance is some 1/3 of motivation.
>>728833436maybe for a shallow number go up simulator
>>728833505I don't know what you mean. A writer could go behind content creation after a day and make quests/lore. Simultaneously, making themepark and sandbox content is about the same effort, but you get infinitely replayable content from the latter.
>>728833490Yes, social relevance, not muh player retention. Even wow classic remains socially relevant enough (i.e. it has a player base) to be playable, not that I've played it myself. Basically nobody cares about lvl 10 player retention.
There hasn't been a real MMO in years. The last true MMOs I can think of are EVE and Albion
>>7288342493% retention is tiny. How many of those stop playing when they realize they're sitting in group finder, etc., all day?
>>728834249I meant that more players is still more relevance up to an extent ... at least more than 3%. Instanced PvP has been a thing for a while, and they're cross-server.
>>728834502idkhas the game failed, anon?your meme numbers mean nothing>>728834641to an extent? who caresdid the game die?can wowniggers still find people to group with?
>>728828473XIV and Guild Wars Reforged
>There hasn't been a real MMO in years. The last true MMOs I can think of are EVE and AlbionPvP is garbage because it forces players into winners and losers and no one wants to be the loser in their fantasy world.
>Players can play every class and profession.>If more tanks are needed, people can just switch over.>When the economy matters at every ilvl, players communicate, craft-loop, and do WPvE together.You could be AOE farming Hillsbrad.
>>728834782The numbers prove that most people don't like it / it's not objectively good.
>>728834868The most popular and hours played games are PvP.
>>728809931how many times are you going to make these threads you fucking retarded jeetyour game ideas suck ass
>>728835116>The only alternative sucks.
>>728835065Not really. lvl <10 player retention is meaningless because tons of people randomly try the game then quit. Furthermore the game still appears to be alive.
>>728835220In what way is 3% retention to max level acceptable?
>>728835274Are we talking wow classic here, or retail? You just randomly quoted 3% to me.
>>728835367Why does it matter?
>>728809931haha NIGGER
>>728835409Because you would not expect high retention in classic. Many people just dip into it for leveling, hardcore, or a nostalgia trip.
>>728835807>you would not expect high retention in classic.Classic was supposed to be *the* WoW.
>>728836526So you are talking about classic regarding 3%? You sure talk a lot of shit while refusing to answer simple questions.
>>728809931this isn't surprising in the slightest, we live in an era of poorly designed games and tiktok ADHD retards looking for immediate dopamine highs, it's why elden slop is so popular WOAH DUDE>ROLL>ROLL>ROLL>ROLL>BOSS SLIDING ANIME ATTACK>ROLL>ATTACK>ROLL>ATTACK>ROLL>ROLL>ROLL>ROLL>ATTACK>ROLL>ROLLGAME OF THE FUCKIN YEAR
>>728809931>>728810086>Only 30% of players make it past level 10.This is more a reflection of hardware than anything.>install game on linux jeet toaster>runs like shit>leave a negative review and uninstall
>>72883687530% of players past 10 was retail.10% to 60 was Classic.
>>728837038Trvth Nvke
>>728837261OK, so (you) or another jeet just kinda randomly switched between them during our little "argument" without telling me which was which? Am I supposed to take such retardation seriously?
>>728837204It's new accounts. I doubt many can't run WoW.
>>728837320Do you think the games are much different that they can't be intermingled? They're both about leveling.
>>728837416Yes, as I already stated. Anyway I've had enough of your nonsense CIAO NIGGA
>>728837661I'm not being dishonest. One would imagine that if 30% of retail makes it past 10, and 10% of Classic makes it to 60, about 3% of people leveling make it to max.
WoW needs a few things to make it better, even before we get into massive changes to game systems and design. The fact they're finally adding player housing is a good sign in a way, but I worry of HOW they're doing it along with everything else. >Decensor everything and fix the main story/characters. Its should go without sayin that everything in the Great Censorship Patch of 2021 needs to be reverted from no longer being able to make rude gestures at each other, to renaming Illidan's harem, to the bowl-of-fruit painting, to just about everything else that censored for the perpetually offended social media faggotry. Next, apparently the Midnight beta has another "one eyed one armed black girlboss is more powerful than all your favorite old heroes, and lectures everyone on how to be better people", and they made the Amani trolls run by someone's fucking sister. I thought all this shit was supposed to be squeezed out when Metzen returned? The Chromie shit I've always found obnoxious, but I wouldnt' care about if a character turned out to be gay or whatever if they were decent in other regards, but that never seems to happen in recent dev. Anyway, fix it >Get rid of FOMO bullshit and give people reasons to come back.Legion Remix is a good idea, but what about Mage Tower appearances? Missing shit like that is obnoxious. Same with how they pulled the original Brutasaur from being a gold sink and turned it into a BMAH abortion. I had a Feldrake before the Twitch giveaway and I see no problem with it being more available. They should also ensure that AOTC mounts should persist into the next expansions, but at either A) regular rarer-mount drops or B) opt into fighting the dungeon with stats capped to the max of what was available during its heyday, and get a massive boost in drop rate. In any case, make unlocking 'rare' shit be more about doing the stuff rather than being there at the right time. Its a 20 year old game, people leave and return.
>>728824110Fishing.
>>728828473>Shroud of the Avatar Do you like Ultima? Do you really like the RP part of MMORPG? Then SotA is worth your time. If you don't give a shit about the roleplaying elements it probably wont' hold your interest. >Star CitizenEven as an unfinished alpha, its probably given more more great MMO experiences than most other titles over a past decade.
>Avatar 1 has made $3B.What's the Avatar of MMOs?Where's the Avatar MMO?
>>728838592I wonder how much New World has made. It had a 900k concurrent.
>>728828473toramrunescape 3
>>728810086>>728809931THIS ARTICLE IS FROM 2010 ON CATACLYSM LAUNCH, IGNORE THIS BAIT
>>728824651QA testers are part of the development process so it's perfectly acceptable to refer to them as game devs. I don't really like the tone you're taking here, bud. Absolute clown shoe behavior.*stretches*You have been documented, blocked, banned and reported, hope this was worth it for you. Welcome to the finding out timeline, bud.
>>728839305So what? Do you think *more* people stay playing the game when *fewer* people play the game?
>>728812028>sea of thievesa mutiplayer sandbox pirate game
>>728839508There are dozens of really popular games; I can't imagine WoW retention actually increased since 2010.
>>728825192Games shouldn't be designed around this, it creates formulaic and boring group combat encounters. You can still have healing and tank archetypes without making them mandatory for every fight, this would give devs greater creative freedom to make fights unique, not just from a raid mechanic perspective but for the fundamental combat itself. No more tank and spanks.
>>728840449The obvious alternative is to just let players choose between a few abilities, but this massively devalues the depth that you have with healers, tanks, and DPS. Maybe you could give some a larger selection of abilities, but why not just design specs? That's obviously pretty complicated, and WoW does it really well.
flying mounts killed WoW, it was the beginning of the end
>>728841148They could make it where if you hit a node, a mob, or a boss, you get a 5 minute cool down.
