Do you agree with Jonathan Blow that modern game designers just have no idea what they're doing?
>>728916047He's a good dude and he does know his shit, but he tends to get too artsy fartsy with it.
Isn't this the guy that forced people to watch a 3 hour video in his game?
>>728916160you control the buttons you press
>>728916047ain't got no point to the game
When Mr. Blow speaks I listen and learn.
Not gonna listen to the fag that got BTFO by Soulja Boy
WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOP
>>728916047his games ain't even got a point to them man, that shit stupid as hell
>>728916047When was the last time he worked in AAA?Back before the PS3?
>>728916270>>728916349>>728916372why do you people worship niggers?
>>655114097
>>728916047Yes, I would trust him as he has a lot of experience in not knowing what he's doing.
>>728916397I like to drink beer and get drunk
I agree with the point but the problem is I already came to that conclusion previously and I dont give a shit about his opinion based on all his output since Braid.
>>728916397A pretentious midwit getting btfo by a retarded nigger yelling at a television is the funniest shit and people will never stop quoting it. No amount of 2 hour video essays can counter "ain't go no point to the game".
>>728916397Not worship, but "you never run out of the going back in time potion so there's no point to the game" is genuinely a great criticism about the game.
>>728916397It is inculcated in them from childhood through the American school system.>>728916551You are an insane negrolator
>>728916452You like to smoke weed and get high.
>>728916626and if you could run out of it it'd be a better game?
>>728916626>"you never run out of the going back in time potion so there's no point to the game" is genuinely a great criticism about the game.No it isn't. Why is adding some arbitrary fail state that changes the gameplay in no way good design?
>>728916704>>728916668Not gonna buy your game Jonathan
>>728916668It's called a "game mechanic".
>>728916668If you clear a game with save states on an emulator, did you really beat the game?
>>728916047he is a modern game design
I feel like the whole industry agreesThe whole marketEveryone has noticed the sharp decrease in qualityIs there anyone that genuinely thinks it’s better? Some gems come out like Stellar Blade but most sequels are really bad
>>728916397We call the wiggers. Now we also have jiggers and siggers.
>>728917049i think the number of games releasing has outpaced the drop in % of quality gamesi get to play niche stuff like>Lorn's Lure: first person platformer where the route through an incomprehensibly large megastructure isn't clear, just because of specific shape of the level geometry>Chants of Sennaar: decipher multiple hyroglpyics-like languages to navigate and connect distinct civilizations>dream BBQ: lsd-like walking simulator with a high animation budget and modern QOL featuresand I think its great
Not everyone wants to take 10 years to release a game bro
>>728916047He's pretentious as fuck but yes i'd agree with him. As far back as at LEAST Mass Effect Andromeda (and definitely earlier but this is a good landmark example), so many games now have this vibe of "let's let the interns have a turn at making the game this time!"
>>728916047>spends 10 years remixing ideas from puzzlescript gameshe's good, but he went full retard
>>728917501>let's have the women, minorities, and proud trans folx have a turn at making the game this time!Fixed
>>728917536The levels with the multiple layers look cool and do stuff the puzzlescript games couldn't, but most of the trailer could have been done in a 2D game. I don't know why so much of the game is 2D like that.
>>728916047Yes. Collaborative media and games in particular rely on being greater than the sum of their parts. After a certain amount of developers (anywhere from 30-150, the theorized maximum amount of people that a person can give a shit about) you just lose the ability to make a coherent work and the value of the work being done drops off massively and you may as well be paying everyone to do nothing.>>728917353The industry and marketing engine are unfortunately still tuned to the publisher/copyright model of the pre-internet, pre-digital era due to lobbying from corrupt businesses like the record industry and efforts of the deep state meeting each other in the middle like a game of glow-in-the-dark gay chicken.
>>728916047I didn't need him to say this, I already knew it. It's obvious.
>>728916160It's one hour long.https://youtu.be/yFNbeeDILB0
>>728918591Also, this is completely optional. You only do this puzzle if you want the 100%.
>>728916160>oh no I was FORCED to listen to an interesting entertaining talk in this entertainment product I purchased!! This is RAPE!you sound womanish.
>>728916551I played the game and I saw a point to it.
>>728917536You can't do 3D puzzles in puzzlescript.
Jonathan Blowjob
>>728917621anon posted webms from dev streams and some of these levels and especially the overworld aspect go way beyond what puzzlescript can do obviously
>>728919745I'll post it again.
>>728919745I'm aware there are levels like that, but most of the trailer is 2D which I think is a strange choice. I hope most of the game isn't like that because it seems like most of the overworld is.
>>728919867The overworld is 120 puzzles, and the game has 1400 total.
>>728918891>There's a 4D sokoban written in puzzlescriptMaybe you shouldn't be telling people what they can and can't do.
>>728919814God this game is going to be fucking kino. I can't wait until it filters half of /v/.
>>728916047He's an indie so he has full control over his team. I don't think he'd do well on any of the games he is criticizing which I assume is bloated AAA projects. If his task is implementing a cash shop he'd probably throw a fit and get fired.
>>728916047Yes. I don't know the context in which he said it but on general, principle, yes.
>>728916551The funniest thing is that soulja boy thought braid was rad, just not for any of the reasons blow wanted, so it still broke blow.
>>728917049>Some gems come out like Stellar BladeLOLJesus
>>728916047And what games has the bastard Blow made, that I should fear him so?>Braid>The WitnessTwo games? He's made... two games?
>>728917610Find me just one game dev team that's accurately described in this way
>>728919940>I can't wait until it filters half of /v/.nigga it's over a thousand sokoban levels, 0.01% of /v/ is gonna finish this game
>>728919941So you're suggesting game devs do know what they're doing, which is making bad games
>>728919930Could you link it? I'm a bit of a 4D nerd.
>>728920186The people who made Dustborn.
>>728920341Yea. Take something like High Guard. Game isn't even out yet and people are already hating on it because of genre fatigue. There's a lot of factors that make people think games are bad that are outside the devs hands. I don't know what Blow is specifically complaining about though. OP should have posted more info.
>>728916047Yes, but definitely not for the reason that Jonathan argues.
>>728921213High Guard might actually turn out pretty good gameplay wise (Titanfall devs and all). It's just that they chose the style poorly.
>>728919940I've no doubt the block pushing will be one of the block pushing games of all time. I'm concerned about the characters and the writing. Until proven otherwise Blow is your garden variety autist who cannot write to save his life. The trailer was pic related.
>mayro with a rewind button>talos principle but gayer>spending 1/3 of his life making a sokoban game
>>728921793>Short single player game doesn't have a lot of concurrent players
One of the actual auteurs in vidya as much lefties hate his guts.
>>728921087There are several versions, this is the one which has the most comprehensible representation of 4D space, imo:https://www.puzzlescript.net/play.html?p=67b0f5f79f71d798d37266d471a6dc74
>>728921978Oh, this kind of representation of 4D. I respect the math that went into this, but this doesn't really interest me.
>>728921087>I'm a bit of a 4D nerdid the 4D minigolf game any good?
>>728922198Yes, it's good.
>>728922249thanks, it caught my eye and it seemed interesting, gonna get it when I feel like melting my brain a little
>>728919940If the Mirror Isles will be anything like the source material, it will be the best block pushing game ever.
For me it feels like older games were made by a team of people who enjoyed games and then wanted to make something new while most modern slop is made by people who got a video game studies degree and are now just making shit using a flow chart, basically the difference between a fancy restaurant and mcdonalds
>>728916551Qrd
>>728916047No. There are better indie devs than Jonathan Blow.
YOUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
>>728922562https://youtu.be/gWqnz-7iQbY
>>728922447it took me longer than i'd like to admit to figure that level out
>>728922562Soulja Boy made a shitpost about Braid, trashing it that "it's for people who get drunk and high" because having infinite rewind means there's no point to Braid as an actual videogame because there's no stakes, or real penalties. His demeanor yuxtaposed with the artistic and pompous nature of Blow and his work makes for a very funny video.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSXofLK5hFQ
>>728919940>block pushing simulator where you play as a hunchback No thanks
>>728922968That's just the warrior who can push blocks. There is also a thief who pulls block, a wizard who swap with blocks from far away, a priestess who can't do shit, but it immortal and other heroes near her are also immortal, a druid who can turn walls into block and vice versa, and a bard who moves everything in a 2 tile radius along with him when he moves. Play Heroes of Sokoban 1-3.https://sites.math.washington.edu/~ostroff/puzzles/Heroes_of_Sokoban.htmlhttps://sites.math.washington.edu/~ostroff/puzzles/Heroes_of_Sokoban_II_Monsters.htmlhttps://sites.math.washington.edu/~ostroff/puzzles/Heroes_of_Sokoban_III_The_Bard_and_The_Druid.html
>>728922745>Soulja BoyHe smart. >having infinite rewind means there's no point to Braid as an actual videogame because there's no stakesHe know dem words!>>728922745>>728922645
>>728922645>"Seriously depressed"Does he really?
>>728918724*notices bulge*
shit looks so cash
>>728923849I wonder what's the point of dragons there.
>>728923512I can sort of get what he means. Imagine if you carved the statue of David, and it became acclaimed because haha, funny penis.
>>728923849Is the game actually made using his Jai language thing?
>>728924916Yes, he streams the development.
>>728916232Based Blow-bro
>>728916047jonanthan "i am gonna kill all webniggers, i am gonna genocide all of them, anyone who has written a single line of html or http server code will be culled, also its over, a faggot in pakistan used two arrays instead of a sorted map its all over, technology is ruined" blow
>>728919940Filtered by the godawful voice acting/writing/visuals? If it weren't for Highguard this shit would've been the worst non-gacha trailer at the game awards.
>>728925714>voice actingPic related. That's Thekla's producer.>writingUnknown yet.>visualsWhat's wrong with them? I think the game looks good.
>>728916047He's right.He is also a part of the modern game designer crowd.
>>728926003bro has constantly shit on the modern game designer crowd
>>728917049The medium has just matured. AAA is nothing more then your blockbuster summer movie. Braindead but pretty pictures. Other AAA are award bait, just as a ton of oscar movies. But that doesnt mean the medium is worse, far from it. You just have to ignore the heavy marketed shit(its not aimed at you) and you will find tons of tons of high quality shit out there, coming out almost daily. Today you can be into one genre only and have tons of new shit to play every month. I know this will fall of deaf ears here, but, look for things that make you like and ignore the things you dislike.
>>728921171Mostly white men, try again
>>728921213But that would suggest that devs indeed don't know what the fuck they're doing.
>>728922509>Food analogy>The analogy is shit
Blow is a creator with a very particular strength. He's mostly made games that play to that strength, which is smart.Where he goes off the rails is in assuming that his particular style is THE style.There are many games and contexts where his skillset is fairly useless and any medior would outperform him.His point about the fundamentals of technology gradually being forgotten is real, it's a thing to keep in mind, but also fundamentally not the core problem of gamedev.If Blow were a chef, he'd be bloviating that today's chefs can't even raise their own cows or build their own stoves. Which both true and irrelevant.
>>728918671I care not for the opinions of NEETs to be quite honest.
>>728927951Then why are you here?
Jon Blow has an extremely sanitized and programatic view of game design and game systems. He's absolutely obsessed with creating "perfect" videogames, with "perfect" systems, and too autistic to understand that chaos and friction is what makes the art.
>>7289185915 minutes in. Oh my god, talk about being high on your own supply.
>>728927704It's more about predicting demand. The game might be very fun to play and well designed but if no one wants to pay to try it then it will be forgotten about. Only a couple thousand or so people actually played Concord. Most just got turned off by the aesthetics and genre.
>>728916047do you think he played void stranger and hated it?
>>728928136Never thought about it like that, but seems right.
>>728916160Kojima could only manage a 40 minute cutscene in mgs3
>>728927893>If Blow were a chef, he'd be bloviating that today's chefs can't even raise their own cows or build their own stovesI watched his interview with Dan Allen and that's not what he thinks. He says that creating tools for making work easier is part of progress.
>>728928136But his games are good. I play games, not art.
>>728922562>2012 - Indie Game: The Movie includes footage that makes it look like Jon Blow was upset Soulja Boy liked his game.>2016 - He clarifies that he was talking about pundits, and how they focussed on the game's story, and didn't give a shit about his game design.>2017 - With The Witness finished, he ramps up streaming on twitch, and starts tweeting more. People are offended.>2018 - Someone makes a video titled: "Jonathan Blow crying in a dark room about Soulja Boy misunderstanding Braid">2023 - "got no point" meme spammed on /v/ to silence this problematic chud, and provide a voice to an under-represented minority of color.
>>728916075>He's a good dudeHoly shit we really did go full contrarian on here ahahahahaha holy fuck ahahahah no he most certainly is not a "good dude" and a decade ago he was telling all of you that video games are a bad thing. Bitch ass couldn't fucking handle Soulja Boy playing his game and now he's full on grifter.
>>728931221>Decide to look at OotSS's subreddit for information>People there are in a quantum superposition of being excited for game and trying to speak about the importance of separating the art from the artistIt's really funny.
>>728932710It's oddly convenient how one of the devs whose puzzle idea was used in OOTSS spoke out about how Jon's a mean nazi fascist only after the game had been announced. He got his shekels from the contract with Thekla, and now he wants the game to be boycotted by bluesky maniacs.
it’s weird that I tend to agree with most things this guy has to say in regards to programming but every other word out of his mouth about literally anything is such utter dogshit
>>728916047I agree he has no idea what he's doing.
>>728916047Imagine having a last name like Blow. That nigga must have heard it all.
>>728916047He's probably right on average, I think most people in the industry especially in the big studios just do whatever they're told for the paycheck and don't even think about how the shit they're working on fits into the overall design of the game.Solo indie devs mog him though.
>>728922645He has that "streamer I'd listen to in the background but don't really pay attention to" voice.
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2626458177I like the sound design of the Bard.
>>728932620>Decade ago>DECADE AGO
>>728921373I knew I had an edit of this somewhere.>>728928136>>728929050He's almost in the "your favorite dev's favorite dev" category except he's not that revolutionary nor influential amongst his peers plus he had his fair share of mainstream success already. That label is usually reserved to fantastic technicians who never reached widespread popularity. In terms of competency he's definitely in the upper tiers and earned his right to talk shit about the industry. Otherwise Anon hit the nail on the head with his remark. Blow indeed prioritizes the development process over the "magic" and thinks good games are results of maximizing your tools and doing things the "right" way rather than letting the flow take over and maybe trim the extra fat later on.
SOULJA BOY OFF IN IT OHHH
>>728916075>He's a good dude>butthurt over the looker
>>728937554He is not a good sport.
>>728916075>He's a good dudeTHIS. He loves Trump and Israel, so fuck what trannies say about him.
wooooooooooooo
