>90% of the cards are just shitty noobtraps that brick your run and have no synergy to your character's core mechanics>even the best players in the world are stuck at 50-75% winrates because of ebin roguelite balancing>deckbuilding game where the best way to make your "deck" is to remove as many cards as possiblethis shit is fucking stupid
>>728967603first roguelite card game? lol
>>728967603>>deckbuilding game where the best way to make your "deck" is to remove as many cards as possiblewhat en retard
Go play an actual good card based roguelike>all cards are viable as long as you build your deck around them>even the average retard can reach a 90+% winrate since the focus mechanic makes finding specific cards easier>deckbuilding game where the best way to make your deck is to add as many cards as possible as long as you invest in max mana + mana regen to support itthis shit is fucking kino
>>728967603>deckbuilding game where the best way to make your "deck" is to remove as many cards as possiblefirst time playing any deckbuilder ever?this has held true before deckbuilders were made into videogames.
>>728967603The best player in the world is approaching 90%
>>728968116it's too hard, this game filtered the fuck out of me
>>728967603Throwing out cards from your original deck is normal I just wish it wasn't so resource intensive.
>>728968116>even the average retard can reach a 90+%how is that a positive
>>728968556it is resource intensive precisely because of how good it is to remove dead weight from your deck
>>728967703unironically yeswhat's the appeal of this?
>>728968116that one is for hardcore weebs. i need slow paced stuff for old men.
>>728967603>deckbuilding game where the best way to make your "deck" is to remove as many cards as possibleThis why I like Yao Guai Hunter a lot. You're punished for having small decks by needing to waste Energy to reload from the discard pile, instead of the game looping for free and rewarding you for free.
>>728968703for me its the rng nature of it + i like card games
>>728967603>90% of the cards are just shitty noobtraps that brick your run and have no synergy to your character's core mechanicswelcome to all card games>even the best players in the world are stuck at 50-75% winrates because of ebin roguelite balancingwelcome to all roguelikes>deckbuilding game where the best way to make your "deck" is to remove as many cards as possiblewelcome to all card games
>>728968328now look at the top 10 Defect players on A20 lolinb4 >playing Defectfuck you he's cool but he's so fucking shitlike 95% of his cards are just absolute turds that either do nothing or genuinely have nothing to do with his character
>>728968703Very high skill ceiling. You can get extremely good at it if you have the necessary autism. And there are no shortcuts, no guide will take you above 20-30% winrate, everything beyond that is your knowledge and skill.
>>728967603>even the best players in the world are stuck at 50-75% winrates because of ebin roguelite balancinggames with a 100% win rate are boring. The simplest example that you can even test yourself is to go compare playing regular minesweeper and variations that remove all randomness. While it certainly feels bad to lose to a 50/50 at the end of regular minesweeper you'll find that the patterns you have to work through are much more engaging than the non random variants.
>had a decent ironclad run going based around juggernaut and flame breath and generating and discarding wounds for armor>random event gives me a dead branch>run dead as hand floods with unupgraded headbutts and clotheslines
>deckbuilding game where the best way to make your "deck" is to remove as many cards as possibleanon i...
>>728969220Most A0 post of the day.
>>728969295I think it was actually A0 yeah, or it might have been the last A4 run I did before dropping back downI just want to beat the heart once
>>728967603>deckbuilding game where the best way to make your "deck" is to remove as many cards as possibleSuggest the solution to this conundrum then if you are so smart.
>>728969805Cards have finite uses. Take too few and you wont have any left to use by the end.There's a deckbuilding porn game like this and it's really fun.
>>728969805Chrono Ark solved it by just making your new cards replace the shitty starter ones
>>728968116Downloaded it for the cute midriff, stayed for the gameplay.
>>728969805add a punishment for running out of cards instead of letting you always reshuffle for freeor alternatively just make removing more than you add not something you can do
>>728969805The solution is to remove the skip button. You must take a card every time you are able to. To help with this, add more card draw effects and limited use cards that remove themselves from your deck. Make all the starter cards remove themselves after you beat the first boss to both force you to replace them and get them out of your deck.
>>728969805>implying it's retardedthe watcher is the most broken character in the game because you can get it down to a perfect cycle of ~8-10 cards that do 200+ damage per turn, it's a fucked system because running out of cards has no penalty involved and you get all your shit back for free at no costmeanwhile building an actual deck of 20+ cards gives you such inconsistency that you die to a pack of goblins because the game fucked every irrelevant utility in your deck into your hand with no option to mulliganit's basically a cardgame that's missing the things that make card games what they are to begin with by making the concept of a deck almost irrelevant entirely - you're sculpting a repeatable hand instead of crafting a list>Suggest the solutionmake it an actual deckbuilding game and not a deckremoving game
Ascension climbing is fucking AIDS because you get to a point where every boss is just shitting out 50 damage every turn and it completely butchers the ability to do anything remotely off-meta. Quit while you're ahead.
>>728968703Inscryption might be more your speed
>>728968703It's basically like jrpgs but instead of grinding to get better, it's about being more strategical and learning more about the game
I cannot beat the heart on a20 as Silent I've been trying for 3 days now somebody fucking help me
>>728967603>cards are just shitty noobtraps that brick your runthere's literally nothing wrong with that in a roguelike, dutifully so if you are given choice
>>728969805You start with 20 cards and can never add or remove cards (permanently), only swap them out for others. Each fight has ways to add/remove cards though
>>728974160No wraith form catalyst run or some blurricade 200 block a turn run in that time? That's usually the only way I'm beating heart on A20 as silent.
>>728974160just draw the cards at the top and don't draw the cards at the bottom bro
>>728967603>>even the best players in the world are stuck at 50-75% winrates because of ebin roguelite balancingOn the absolute hardest difficulty where there is very little margin for error, yeah.
>>728969938name?not specifically for the porn but because I like card games that shake things up so I'm curious
>>728967603ENTER
>>728969938what game?
>>728974385why are literally all of these lists so blurry and shittyi can't even read the fucken cards on half of these
>>728974385>just get the prismatic thingy and exclusively get red cardsthanks genius
>>728967603This game is too hard, it forces me to make too many decisions and I fall for all the noob traps. What's a turn-off-your-brain card game I play?
>>728974385>Clash is poop tierWut.I've been clashmaxing in A15+ for years now, it's literally my favorite fucking thing to build around and I aggressively suicide my runs if I don't see more than two before the first boss>clash spam into a 4+ energy whirlwindCoolest thing in the game, fuck the guy that made this list.
>>728974873Uno
>>728969805There's Blood Card where deck is also your HP. You take damage you discard from deck. You deck out you die.
>>728974460>>728974515It's called Take Me to the Dungeon. I don't remember exactly how it works, but I remember a lot of boss battles where my options were dwindling because of the way decks work. I don't give a shit about the porn either, I just like card games and lewd settings for non porn reasons. It's neat that it is mainly just a nice loving normal girl with a male mc I guess.
>>728969995Chrono Ark has an enforced deck minimum.
>>728974873One step from eden.Your brain will turn off because you cannot think fast enough to process everything going on.
>>728975173oh I've played this one, you described it incorrectly because you forget how it worked.it plays more like how Gloomhaven/Frosthaven's stamina work. During a fight you don't get your cards back unless you end the fight or you rest, but resting makes you lose one of your cards temporarily. Doing so casts that card's spell which buffs you to compensate for the lost card.There are rest stops where you can get your set-aside cards back but they are at fixed points during the runI personally wouldn't consider that game to be a deck builder. It's definitely a card game, but you aren't building a deck at all, there is zero shuffling, and you aren't actually modifying the composition of your deck during the dungeon run: you are preconstructing a hand in town, and you always start the entire game with that hand. It's a hand-management game but that doesn't roll off the tongue.pedantry over. the game is fantastic enough that I forget it's porn
>>728975173>have to lose to get porn>no mid-battle fuck or lewd debuffs:/
>>728975415My bad, my brain must have filled in the deckbuilding stuff automatically. I play a lot of games, so I get them mixed up sometimes. I'll make up for it by recommending Overdungeon as the perfect turn your brain off deck builder for this anon >>728974873
>>728973572I second this. Play the baby game OP, it was made for your kind.
>>728967603wrong, almost every card has at least some niche use case.
>>728974461The Goat. Not as hard as A20 spire but infinitely more satisfying to pilot your way though.
>>728974873InscryptionWildfrostMonster Train 1 and 2Impossible to lose in any of those on any difficulty.
>>728969464A1 is the best for your first heart clear. Less elites on A0 makes it harder. >>728967603Each character only has 1 or 2 truly dogshit cards. The rest are situationally good or bad depending on your relics and what you’ve drafted. >>728975104Clash is a solid act 1 card and anyone who’s under a10 should take it because there no starting curse to fuck you. It solves damage on act 1 elites and allows you to upgrade and rests. It falls off hard in act2 unless you build around it, but by then you should have a draw engine to offset it when it bricks. A10+ it’s harder to use but people who meme on it need to try it out more
>>728969805your deck starts out with 300 cards and you can only remove them
>>728975104>I aggressively suicide my runs if I don't see more than two before the first bossso how often do you end up doing that? What percent of your runs do you not have to intentionally try to kill yourself?
card game roguelites are such a weird combo because they are total opposites. Card games are all about skill expression via eliminating the rng of a deck of cards. But roguelites are all about creating fun from randomized elements. If you want your roguelite card game to be as skill based as possible then you eliminate as much of the roguelite randomness as possible, but at that point why even have it be a roguelite instead of a regular game where you can better control what cards the player has access to?
>>728976000>almost everyi hate this deliberately-safe vagueness because it comes out the gate ready to move a fucking goalpost. i could post 20 examples of stupid useless shit nobody should ever click to put in their deck and you'd say >uhm yeah, ALMOST every cardthe watcher and defect are perfect examples of two characters where you fucking cripple yourself by picking any of the toolbox cards instead of the meta combo pieces
>>728967703Chrono Ark's cards aren't 90% noobtraps.
>>728976529I think the problem is most cards are actually useful, but most cards aren't going to fit into one of every build unless you're deck is tempo a build.Example is poison decks.
>>728976526It's only weird if you're seeking to make a good version of both original genres, when the reality is that they're just creating a third separate genre with a different focus than either of it's parts. These games are best experienced without stuff like resetting on bad rolls in my opinion, the fun comes from finding different combinations and trying to see how far you can take what you get.
>>728976526have you never played a modern deckbuilder before?games like dominion, clank, heart of crown, and dune imperium require you to think on your feet with how the boardstate is changing, while also improving your personal deck that dictates your action economy for the turn.people like the improvisation needed when you don't have a fixed challenge ahead of you. being able to freestyle is a skill you can develop.
that's most card rogue likes, balatro is the only one where thinning your deck isn't always the best thing to do
>>728969805Some sort of penalty to going out of cards. Slay the spire has no penalty where you can cycle a deck multiple times per turn.
>>728967603>>deckbuilding game where the best way to make your "deck" is to remove as many cards as possibleHuh? This is every deck building game that has ever existed. There can be strategies that take advantage of a large deck but almost universally you want to be drawing good cards and not drawing bad cards. Your complaints show that you are likely too low IQ for this genre, there is no shame in this, only in your whining.
>>728969002>fuck you he's cool but he's so fucking shitHe gets good 10 energy in, I swear!
i once had a run with calipers, 3 genetic algorithms, and the strange spoon relic.was pretty satisfying to throw up 150 block against the heart on turn 1 and then reshuffle the card
>>728967603just play to have fun
>>728978371>He gets good 10 energy in, I swear!Kind of accurate with how Echo Form works.
>>728978284Well designed card games use a minimum deck size
>>728968116I don't like the artstyle. StS isn't great in this respect either but it's a bit more tolerable for reasons I can't really elaborate.
>>728978598>Well designed card games use a minimum deck sizeThere is a minimum deck size at the beginning, you can't start below it only alter it with your choices, you mean an arbitrary rule about how small your deck can be, which is not the same. Retard.
>>728978561Not just echo form, everything about him feels sluggish. His orbs need so much setup to outscale plain attack/block cards. Yeah, 10 orb 10 focus echo form defect feels like he can take on 10 heart fights in a row, but actually getting him there feels like using Regigigas.
>>728978809Defect really relies on upfront block and damage for most fights due to how slow he is. Thankfully he has some really good block cards like charge battery, leap, and reinforced body to smooth over his ramp. I’d agree of all of the characters he feels the worst to play sometimes because balancing setup and survival is much more difficult. Sometimes you don’t find focus or the right powers and you die in act 2.
Do you mod your spire?What's the good mods?
>>728967603>In a game that is supposed to make me use my brain, I should be able to play like a retard and winI believe in you anon, you can get better, we are all gonna make it!
>>728979151Downfall and packmaster are good extra character mods. Potion chance and bestiary and highlight path are good qol ones to help plan and learn at higher ascensions. RngFix if you really know the game and want to eliminate the fake rng.
So if I play defect I should cut my deck to just capacitor and consume right?
>>728979151for me? it's the buxomunironically though i think packmaster has too much bullshit going on to really enjoy, because every single pack its own unique gimmick and you get assigned seven different ones at randomalso downfall STILL hasn't fixed the rest rite problem so i'm boycotting it
>>728979151>Flagbearer>Lorekeeper>Downfall>Chtolly>Project Moon stuff like the Ruina expansion>Shion expansion with the multiple unique characters and extra final bosses (the final battle theme is so catchy)>The BuxomThese are my favourites, then I just add a bunch of singular characters to play through the expansions or higher difficulties as and some QoL stuff.
>>728980062>Project Moon stuff like the Ruina expansionI tried the lobcorp one but it sucked ass, is the ruina one better?
>>728980110Ruina is a full blown expansion that replaces every floor, enemy and boss with the Abnormalities that each have their own gimmicks. All culminating in a unique experience that replaces the heart with an actually fun finale, I don't want to spoil it much but you can probably guess if you know the series. Lobcorp stuff is not necessary at all, I just like downsides to things.
your expectation is that a card is useful in 90% of valid strategies, that's not true
>>728979829downfall update is out as of 15 minutes ago sorry for making you wait an extra day
>>728977265not disagreeing with anything but>modern deckbuilder>games like dominiondominion's been out nearly 2 decades bro
>>728982042modern in the sense of being a part of the hobbyist boardgame market establishing itself with games like Catan, the breakaway from the mass market slop like Monopoly, Life, and Sorry.Time has flown by, man.
>>728980178kek, this happens a lot
>>728982276what the fuck is going on here boriswhy do pommel strike and shrug it off cost 3
>>728975173I came for the H-game, stayed for the gameplay. This shit was harder and more engaging than I ever expected. Red cards a besto
Tried pirating StS a few times but could never get into it, I know it's just newfag bitching but blocking seems absolutely useless with how often shit like >>728980178 and >>728982276 happens and going full unga damage never works out either. Maybe I'll get it for $2.5 this sale and put a bit more effort into learning it, surely I'm missing something.
>>728983613You're not supposed to let the knight increase his damage that much, you kind of burst him down.
The actual problem here is acting like A20 is where the game is intended to be balanced, but its just not. If you go for the heart without any ascension you will still lose with a bad deck and you just mindlessly pick cards every encounter, but you have way more flexibility in deck options overall.
>>728968324yeah it sucks and isn't interesting
>>728985875go play some raccoon game where you can grab every piece of garbage and still put together a win, then.if you don't like the genre go play something else.
>>728982276> 1 HP>5 defends, 1 clash >potions: upgrade all cards in your hand, gain 5 strength.
>Brutally mogs your favorite deckbuilder
>>728982430sneko oil
>>728967603>>deckbuilding game where the best way to make your "deck" is to remove as many cards as possibleI don't think there's a deck building game with active card removal where this isn't the case.
>>728967603Name a card game in which streamlining your deck wasnt advantageous?
>>728986412this would have been really good if the curse you get at the start didn't dictate 90% of the run
>>728986065I accept your concession.
>>728970324STS is a card game where you spend the majority of the game crafting your engine for what you want your deck to do.That you are trying to make this sound like it isn't deckbuilding to a T is fucking retarded anon.Please give an example of what you consider an actual deckbuilding game that isn't "attempting to make the rest of your deck produce the perfect hand" like STS, MTG, fucking Clank is.
>>728968116I don't have the reflexes for this shitIt makes me feel like I'm having a seizure on the higher difficulties
>>728986412>mathematically calculates the value of every single possible interaction in the game and charts it out to the point it looks like a total schizo mess>it somehow works out decently enough to the point you can play the randomly generated mode and it's pretty well balancedI kneel
>>728987285Thats why you get to choose your curse. It's literally called a curse, it's meant to force you to play around it not only practically but also in your meta/macro decision making, to spice things up. We still see long ass win streaks even on the hardest difficulty, so I don't understand your criticism.
>>728967603Genuinely one of the worst games I've ever played. All of the praise is undeserved and I'm glad I didn't pay for it.Due to it being turn based, RNG is what decides if you can make it to the end of the game or not, with some runs being a total waste of time for you regardless of skill because you didn't get lucky.But not only that, the soundtrack is dogshit, with the same 4-or-so tracks playing over and over again. You literally have to turn off the music if you want to take any enjoyment out of this slop.I can't find a single good thing about it. That it looks sort of clean maybe? But then again the monsters look ass. It's just that bad.If you see anyone recommending it, ignore them, this game is dogshit to the bone.
>>728967603What an ugly, unappealing game. >>728968116>an actual good card based roguelikeNo such thing exists.
>>728967703My first was the HS adventures. Besides some bosses being ridiculously OP, it was better balanced than Slay the Spire
>>728986412Not enough player input in the macro, the runs all feel the same and take forever to develop an identity>no map>1 out of 2 choice every floor where you get to pick between trash you don't need, trash you don't need and several pieces of lower level trash you don't need
>>728981451What are the changes? Also, why do you have so many chinks in your comments?
>>728986065 You're not wrong. People hop into a deckbuilder expecting every run to be winnable as long as they "try hard enough," and when RNG reminds them it's a roguelike too, they throw a fit. The entire point is adapting on the fly and making the best out of a trash hand, not getting handed synergy on a silver platter. If you want guaranteed W's, go back to playing Monument Valley or some shit.
Is there a way to launch modded Slay the Spire from the desktop? I don't want to open Steam every time.
>>728993585jre\bin\java.exe -jar ModTheSpire.jarPut this is a bat file inside the game directory and launch that.
>>728967603I dropped this game because I realized it's a wiki game after the first run
>>728993843Brainlet take.
Ascension is bad. It's some kind of S&M thing. What if i made the game worse to play and less enjoyable. No, i don't think i will
>>728994371The point is to give more meaning and weight to each of your decisions, if you play in A0 yu eventually reach a point where you win 100% of the time without even having to think, that's not exactly fun.
>>728969103Kek
>>728994583You move on to other game.
>>728994735I did, StS A20 is a different game from StS A0.
>>728994793Eh it's a game encoded equivalent of a challenge run, obviously some people are into that but it's not wrong to not to be into that either.
>>728994858>Eh it's a game encoded equivalent of a challenge runNo, A0 to A19 is the game encoded equivalent of a tutorial.
Just bought this game and unlocked the third character. Any tips for a beginner?
>>728994905There is such a thing as having your tutorial be too long. Why not 3 or 5 steps?
>>728994926body slam build is the easiest, most braindead way to play warrior for most ascension levels imo. Just stack as much defense as you can and use body slam for offense.
>>728994978Because the game has that much depth, even with 20 levels of ascension the time I spent "climbing" ended up completely dwarfed by the time I spent at A20.
>>728967603>you start with shit cardsUnironically artificial difficulty
>>728969285>posts a dead card game
the only card game I ever enjoyed
>>728967603>deckbuilding game where the best way to make your "deck" is to remove as many cards as possibleThat's literally every card game though. It's the entire reason card games have minimum deck sizes, because otherwise you would just play with 5-10 cards that combo to instantly win every game.
>>728969805Next to your deck is a girl laughing at the size as it gets smaller
>>728995405Does she call it a zako deck too?
Is Card-en-Ciel worth buying? I hate Slay the Spire but I like Inti.
>>728975173Enjoyed the OST of this when it released
>>728969805easy access to cards or relics that create consistency/lack of variance in other ways
>>728995385at least in most card games once you use the card its gone and deck out is a real problemwhich isn't an issue in sts because cards go back in the deck.
>>728995385In Dream Quest there comes a point when you have so much draw power that it’s actually not optimal to remove cards from your deck. In that game your deck doesn’t reshuffle until the end of turn so it’s better to have, say, a deck of 30 cards that you can play all in 1 turn than a deck of 5 cards that you play in 1 turn.
I'm going to make the first good rogue-like deckbuilder
>sts2>deception engine What else is there to look forward to? As We Descend? Serial World?
>>728995751>Is Card-en-Ciel worth buying?I'd say so absolutely. Its balance might get kind of wonky in some corners of the game, but that's part of the charm I'd say. Beyond that the game is kind of scorefags a lot. Unlike a lot of games in the genre, Card en Ciel really wants you to win your battles in like just a few turns if not ideally FTK:ing your battles. And it does give you the tools to do that. And then you decide what challenges to fight. Winning a common fight quickly will have you leave net neutral score. Winning a rare fight quickly will have you leave with a net positive score. And winning any fight slowly have you leave with a net negative score. So you try to fight the most difficult fights you think you can manage, so that you fight the other difficult fights as quickly as possible. So that you can end with as high of a score as possible. It's rather cool once you get into it. Also mechanically Card en Ciel is fairly unique in its mechanics and designs. It's fun to overlap and stack a genuinely ridiculous number of effects, as you gather muse cards with conditions that auto-trigger upon certain conditions, and then construct decks that can meet these conditions to trigger all your muse cards and then form a winning strategy with your remaining cards. Really cool game. Also excellent audio and visuals.
>>728968324Nta but thats why ive never liked deck builders
>>728968116>tranny gamenah, i'll just stick with the goat (sts)
>>728996946>scorefagsInti is obsessed with that stuff for some reason, but I can't say I dislike it since I keep playing their games.>Also excellent audio and visualsYeah, it looks great. I wonder if I should get it now or wait for the DLC.
>>728974160dagger throw, my belovedmy first a20 silent win was completely owed to like 4 dagger throws, hovering kite, and reflex/the one that gives you energy when discarded
>>728967603Balatro mog this shit hard
>>728967603I don't get the appeal of this game, people say there's infinite content but there's like 7 different bosses, with the final one always being the same.Some times I feel slay the spire fans never played another video game whatsoever.
>>728967603>>deckbuilding game where the best way to make your "deck" is to remove as many cards as possibleHave fun when the Heart adds 5 trash cards to your empty draw pile end of turn 1 and then attacks for 90. While your combo pieces are all in the discard pile.Spending too many resources on removing cards is THE midwit fillter. 30-35 card decks beat A20 Heart all the time. More good cards = more robust deck.
>>728974160Silent's main gimmick is not shit like poison or shivs, it's an ability to rapidly shuffle through your entire deck. Generally you want to have at least 3 acrobatics and 1-2 calculated gamble+ and shit that synergizes with discard (reflex, tactician, concentrate+, expertise if you run concentrate) regardless of what your deck uses for damageSince you play a lot of cards, you need one of the following to kill the heart>2 or more after images, or 1 after image and nightmare>1 or more wraith form>Tough bandages>Source of large amount of dex (for example bark + 1 turn dex potion + artifact source yields you permanent 10 dex after which blocking the heart is non issue)If you have none of the following it's extremely unlikely that you will win vs the heart. But even the best players in the world don't have 100% a20 win rate.
>>728988118>>Please give an example of what you consider an actual deckbuilding gamesee:>it's a fucked system because running out of cards has no penalty involvedin nearly every relevant and franchised card game, the act of "decking out" causes you to lose the game. this is why MTG decks aren't just 7 cards, and why limitations of 40/60/99 exist for various games and formats>b-but those are other games..they're actual deckbuilding games, where you the player make a deck. A Deck. A fucking Deck of Cards, anon.STS sucks dick as a "DECK BUILDER" because you are NOT making a deck of cards, you're making a hand of them
>>728967603it's good because you can play it on your phone
>decide to replay StS>A20 Defect>Win with a "Throw shit at the wall" deck>Dead Branch + Turbos => Generate a billion cards after the first shuffle>chaining Echo Form causes all of it to implode>nearly die to the 2nd Act 3 boss (the bird) on the last hit because of a fucking RETAIN card preventing me from generating cardsGenuinely the weirdest winning deck I've ever had, this took me an hour instead of the usual 30 minutes as I spent a considerable amount of time per fight, watching enemies scale absurdly high but being unable to do anything because I've had shat out a dozen Buffers is definitely something else.
>>728999296You don't understand what deckbuilder means in the context of genres and your inane seething is basically the same as complaining that MtG sucks dick as a card game because you don't win for having a full house of 3 mountains and 2 lightning bolts in your opening hand while your opponent only has a pair of swamps.
>>729000328i suppose i had the two conflated and you're correcti think i just hate "deckbuilders" then, dishonest ass title for a genre
>>728995294300 million dollars in FIN's release day
I mean rng is the very nature of a card game. It is also what makes the exiting nature of it. You COULD have drawn what you needed. Also on a related note I enjoyed Tamer Vale a lot more than Slay the Spire. It doesn't insist on itself like StS does.
>>729000529i sure do love seeing spongebob, sephiroth, captain america and negan from the walking dead in my fantasy cardgame>but it's profitable!!!at what cost.
>>728968703Slay the Spire is overrated as fuck and has a rabid fanbase that will swear the game is actually the best of it's genre because it's just so balanced and well designed while doing all it's runs with the character who has infinite energy and infinite card drawJust try other games in the genre
>>729000547Forgot my pic.
>>728997840It has infinite content the same way solitaire has infinite content. The content is you solving a unique puzzle generated by the game, not seeing a new enemy type.
>>729000494You're complaining about basic facts of logic, anon.>deck wants to do [thing]>less cards, more chances to do [thing]In any card game, you always want less cards. MtG has Bauble and Street Wraith, all top tier cards for the inerent advantage of running 4 less cards in your deck. Yugioh has Graceful Charity and has to actively ban any further cycling effects. Less cards = more consistency. There is NO GETTING AROUND IT.
>>728997789When are we getting the content update?
Behold, Slay the Spire but better.
>>729000717it doesn't help that i went into it assuming a "deckbuilder" wasn't a "hand spammer", i thinkobviously the best thing would just be having a 5 card "deck" that does the same thing every turn, but if that's the logical conclusion then it's not very interestinghaving hard limits of 40/60/etc as you've proposed is what actually encouraged innovation and 'building' - yugioh, MTG, even the pokemon cardgame would have died decades ago if they had no card limit and everyone just sat down with the same 5 fucking cards every match>There is NO GETTING AROUND IT.tutors/search, scrying, deck fixing, etc - actual strategy and planning instead of "find shopkeeper and -1 your deck lol"i'm just rambling. this genre isn't for me maybe
>>729000890There is very little difference between a deck that tutors for the same 5 cards every match and a deck composed of 5 cards
>>729000775how is it better?
>>729000612man i remember playing the beta of that where the other characters were just a worse version of the starting one, and the rogue was basically unplayable
>>728967603>>even the best players in the world are stuck at 50-75% winrates because of ebin roguelite balancingeither you hallucinated this or the game changed a lot since i last played. i quit on a 12 win streak on A20h with watcher and someone else had like 25, and this is the highest possible post-game difficulty with extra fights.the normal game up until that point is retard proof to win 99.99% of runs.
>>729001037>12 win streak on A20h with watcherthe character that can consistently achieve infinite combos in act 1? wow
>>729000981Encounters are more interesting (enemies actually move around and where they are relative to you changes their actions, with characters also having abilities to manipulate the enemy placement too like cards that can shove or pull, etc.), choices more meaningful, there's a greater variety of good builds for every character which don't just boil down to "now dump your hand". I just think it's neat. Funnily enough despite thinking it's better than Slay the Spire I still have more time in that, something about that game makes me become neurotic and I just keep spamming runs until I get a shitload of card removal early.
>>729001189this looks sick as hellthanks anon
>>729001189>has coop and has a demothanks anon I'm probably getting this
>>728976526>Card games are all about skill expression via eliminating the rng of a deck of cardsThat's a collectable card game not a card game.
>>729001309>>729001246Enjoy anons. It's on sale right now on steam.
>>729000980It depends on how much of the deck can tutor for those 5 cards, and how much can tutor for those tutors. If it's something like yugioh where every card searches anything in engine then yeah, just skip the middle man.
>>728993391besides the new character there's a bunch of balance stuff like that rest site thing and some nerfs to champ and hexaghost on top of finally killing the seals (banishing them to a config option)I assume the reason is that there was a crash while playing in simplified for a couple hours that wasn't found in testing
>>728968116Literally the same problem, you are better off removing cards
>>729001624>killing the sealsbro if you take the seal cards away what am i even supposed to play hexaghost for?
There is literally nothing wrong with removing cards as a mechanic. The issue is just Watcher's busted infinite combo, it takes way more them that for any other character to make use of removing massive amounts of cards, it's just Watcher
>>728967603I despise how the first 3 characters are basically "dumbed-down caveman" gameplay and only the 4th monk character has a semblance of complexity to it. There's such a big gap in terms of balancing them all out.
>>728967603Any deckbuilding game that doesn’t allow you to remove cards is really just an engine creation game that will have a ton of boring cantrips or boring efficiency cards. Removing cards allows far more playstyles to works.
Any games similar to StS?
>>729001670you can literally still play with them by clicking the little gear on the character select screen but it's off by default
>>729001814No. There are literally zero other roguelike deckbuilder games.
>>729001758i think it's because the watcher is the only one that really has a thematic 'kit' to her cards. defect is really close behind her but something like eight in ten cards for his options are just random bullshit out of a hat instead of something that interacts with his orb mechanic
>>729001814beats me. i wonder if that search engine has any answers
opinions about Chaos Zero Nightmare? Being called a retard is also feedback
>>729002057It's fine if you like or can stand gacha. It and morimens are fun enough slay the spire gacha.
>>729001624>on top of finally killing the sealsIt seemed like a neat feature. Did people not like it? What did the broken seal do?
>>729001814Pluto. It's not out yet, but here is a demo.https://store.steampowered.com/app/3057670/Pluto/
>>729002135morimens looks interesting. thanks
>>728967603The "problems" you listed only exist on high ascension btw, and even then the entire point of the genre is to make what's offered to you work, while most of the time the shit you're removing are just very basic deck filler of "deal 5 damage" or "block 5 damage" and anyone acting like your character should be based around these kinds of cards is fundamentally retarded.Stick to low ascension and you can get heart clears with 50+ card decks full of literal crap.
>>728974160>3 dayslolyou're like little baby
>>728968116Perfect pace and art style for oji-sans
>>728968116i tried the game but i can't handle the real-time movement parts, my brain just can't compute it
>>729002315it was really contentious and it encouraged stalling every fight, some people liked it some people hated iteither way it was a headache to try and rework again so I did some testing without any seals and the character was fine so it made sense to just put them in their own little config for the people who still wanted itbroken seal was 10 max hp, 2 strength, 2 dexterity, 2 intensity, and a full heal so it's basically a win when you get it
>>728975104>A15+He was talking about A20. A15-19 is just baby mode of course clash works.
I don't find many of the Ascension modifiers fun and haven't really felt encouraged to beat A20 more than once for the achievement, Ironclad no heart, the learning process and early ascension was great though. Are there any good character mods that don't feel too gimmicky? Tried the Buxom but felt similar to Watcher who I didn't enjoy much.
You did win your very first run of Spire, right? You're not intrinsically bad at vidya?
>>728975104Clash is dog fucking shit in literally any build but attack spam. A card that is an unplayable brick in your hand if you have any skills is shit
>>729002646Removing the seals is absolutely fucking retarded. Whoever started tweaking hexaghost the last couple years thoroughly ruined one of the best downfall characters. Why do you keep making downfall worse by obsessing over balance autism? Seals were fun.
>>729003060Yep, I did.
Am I the only one who likes to keep his decks fat? Most of my runs ends up with a 40+ cards.
>>729003086The Guardian is such a bitch lol.
>>729003201I'm always on the lookout for a chance to go infinite so I like them skinny and flat, ideally sub-18.
>>729003064>an unplayable brick in your hand if you have any skillsclose assessment, but not quiteit gets turned off by burn/ooze/status/curse(s) which is what makes it inoperable as early as floor 1 if you end up facing slime enemies at any point >had 4 clashes in A1 at one point, somewhere around A18 in climb>boss of act 1 was the fucking oozeit's been years. i'm still mad.
>>728967603>50%-70% winrates is somehow badExplain that to chess players. Where even the most god like players are stuck in 5x% winrates. Fucking unbalanced pos game amright?
>>729003489>chess>even the most god like players are stuck in 5x% winratesagainst computers?
>>729003201i used to do that but the inconsistency on the initial draw eventually made me seethe so hard i stoppedmy largest decks are usually on defect because powers and all the draw/energy fix he has
>>729003750>my largest decks are usually on defectI only played with defect, so I guess that's why I liked having lots of cards.
>>729001814Monster Train 2Chrono Ark
>>729003740That's against human players. The best players only get 0-1% win rate against max difficulty chess computers.
>>728967603No you are
>>728967603>majority if not all of cards (jokers) have a realistic and relevant use-case>can easily win with starter 52 card deck and several strategies are about filling your deck with random crap>top-tier players can maintain near if not 100% win rates on the highest stakesPlay better games bro
>>728968116I got filtered. This shit is too hard for me. I suck in rhythm.
I'm starting to think /v/ doesn't actually play games
>>728997458both are those (yes sts too) are for truuns
>>728974873poker, just roll a three sided dice for every action you doliterally easier than snake and ladders and bingo
>>728967603>>90% of the cards are just shitty noobtraps that brick your run and have no synergy to your character's core mechanicsThere are very, VERY few cards that are actually unpickable. Even Flex is pickable. Stop thinking in terms of archetypes, that's never a good thing to do>even the best players in the world are stuck at 50-75% winrates because of ebin roguelite balancingThis is literally just a lie the best STS players consistently have over 90% winrates>deckbuilding game where the best way to make your "deck" is to remove as many cards as possibleFirst, this is true of literally every card game ever. The less bad cards you have the more consistently you draw good cards. This is a extremely basic concept.Second, this isn't actually true. In high ascendancy slay the spire many players opt to draft large decks so they can better deal with enemies shuffling status cards in Why was there a 200 reply thread to criticisms that don't actually exist. Has anyone actually played StS here
>>729006209>Why was there a 200 reply thread to criticisms that don't actually exist>Has anyone actually playedWhere do you think you are right now?
>>729000890the defining feature of deck building as a genre is that you start with a garbage deck of basic cards and you need to Ship of Theseus your way to victoryDeck construction that you see in TCGs is an entirely different thing that happens outside of gameplay itself, and thus is a separate genre.Some deckbuilders do enforce card minimums in their own way. Chrono Ark has your party replace their basic cards as you get new ones, but outright removal is incredibly unrealistic to even get a single removed unless you've gone over. Spire doesn't hard commit to it but it has enemies that are designed to punish having too small of a deck by spamming status cards at you that you're now going to draw way more often.You're looking at things way to idealistically. Being able to trim your deck down to only your perfect little combo to spam every turn isn't something that happens every run, it's something you have to deliberately go out of your way to get, comes at the opportunity cost of alternatives such as elites or shop items (notice how culling your deck gets progressively more expensive too) and you only really want to do this on bosses and not hallway fights, if you prioritize one over the other they one you're not prepared for will kill you instead.you're just kinda looking for something else, there are TCG-style games out there if that's what you actually want to play. I played through Cardaire recently and it was entertaining.
>>728974873Balatro
>>728967603One of most overrated deck-builders, but also games of all time.Its unbelievably ugly too, i dont get it.If this was flash game from 2000's i could give it some leeway. Its just not interesting or good.>>728997789Balatro really shits on most of these.>>729000775Its not. It has great idea as multiplayer but otherwise nonsense.
>>728967603>deckbuilding game where the best way to make your "deck" is to remove as many cards as possiblethat's been a core principle of deckbuilding games since the genre was invented with pic related
>>729006953And its why Chapel was pretty much instantly banned from any group that knew what they were doing.
>>728968703people new to gaming have low standards
>>728969153>games with a 100% win rate are boringthis is subjective
>>728968703Roguelikes/lites (and card ones especially) have the potential to have one of the best (if not the best) strategic decision-making in all of gaming.
>>729001641Ice spammer here, you're wrong
>>728968116On hand I bet I'd enjoy this game a fair bit. On the other hand, it truly upsets me that the game doesn't even attempt doing any single player adventure mode content like the games it is otherwise ripping off. I've always refused to play the game because of the latter. It was immensely disappointing to see the sequel being bullshit in the same way.
