Convenience is the death of vidya soulSearch your feelings, you know it to be true
Almost all soulful games and vidya details have an element of inconvenience to them, whereas all the soulless ones are easily accessible and graspableTry it, name a time a game has made something more convenient and you'll have named a tiny soul death
>>729004423In this case it's just trying to make a bad genre (open world) good. I can't say that fast travel is any better or worse than walking through an open world. The real death is removing the abstraction and trying to make everything realistic, like a fully detailed open world
>>729004423funny how you use morrowind for your example when the literal main quest gives incorrect directions to the dwemer ruin.
>>729004839Fuck that fucking puzzle box
>>729004423Only correct insofar that meaningless inconvenience is also soulless. FOMO/second job grinding for example, is meaningless inconvenience at best, and psychologically predatory anti-soul at worst.
>>729004920ive probably done the MQ about 5 times and i still get lost in that fucking dwemer hellhole.
>>729004423Inconvenience and friction is what makes games into games and not brainless sandboxes. Retarded normalfags actually hate having to make choices and their actions having long-term consequences, they want to play around in a sandbox while a number goes up so it feels like they're accomplishing something.
>>729004423Aye but there's a fine line between challenge and annoyance, one that vidya treads too often.
>>729004423Convenience will be the death of everythingConvenient truths Convenient liesConvenient copesIt's been all downhill since this age and there's nothing stopping it
>>729004423some vidyas still have soul. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXZtVoQ0gqs
>>729004423That's nonsense spouted by retarded tech illiterate third worlders who spout meaningless platitudes about game dev like "limitation breeds creativity" because they want to make generalized complains about modern games without actually understand art or tech, and despite not actually playing modern or old games.
>>729008903>convenience is the death of vidya soul>limitation breeds creativityBoth of these statements are correct, tho'.>without actually understand art or tech, and despite not actually playing modern or old gamesBizarre projection.
>>729009239>Both of these statements are correct, tho'.Shut up, retarded turd worlder. QoL features are a good thing and I've been playing vidya longer than you.
>>729009448I don't care what a retard like yourself thinks. Video game design is not a means an end, it's not about ease of use towards some ulterior thing, the design itself is the art and it should contain friction and conflict the same way any good art does.
>>729009664>I don't care what a retard like yourself thinks.And no one cares what tech and art illiterate third worlders who speak in completely meaningless, hollow generalizations about game design think. Your words are objectively worthless. You don't understand any of the things you're opining on, and you will never create anything yourself.
When Morrowind came out, everyone was mad that global fast travel was removed and replaced with taxi points, and now zoomers praise it for "soul" or whatever.
>>729004423Terraria
>>729009772>You don't understand any of the things you're opining on, and you will never create anything yourself.Again with the weird projection. I don't feel the need to address your spergy venting, go see a therapist or something.
>>729010103Daggerfall is just a fast travel simulator with dungeon crawling in between that broThat was my huge gripe about that one and mods don't help that much
>>729010103There is no such thing as "everyone"
>>729010103Daggerfall had global fast travel because its map was the size of Great Britain you goddamn retard
>>729004423"Convenience == bad" is a bit of a shallow take, the issue is developers not understanding non-obvious, non-"core" parts of the gameplay, especially those without immediate reward/punishment (such as combat or platforming). In DS1 when you meet a vendor you need to carefully look through their items and consider whether you actually need something, if you don't - you might get punished. In other souls games this kind of test of attention and foresight is not possible due to the ability to fast travel everywhere relevant.Convenience is not bad on it's own, but parts of the gameplay not acknowledged as such by developer frequently gets butchered by them with this word as an excuse.
>>729004423It's insane to me that no open world game since Morrowind has bothered implementing fast travel in a way that feels natural to the game world. Learning routes is actually good. Silt striders have their own routes and can only go to certain areas just like the boats the Mages Guild. It forces you to learn the game world to a certain extent outside of just looking at it. PLANNING out your route adds that little bit of soul to the adventure you're about to take. Yet every single open world game since then does the dogshit "open the menu and magically teleport anywhere".
>>729004639>The real death is removing the abstraction and trying to make everything realistic, like a fully detailed open worldThis. Playing old RPGs where you're walking on a world map vs a modern RPG where the entire world is all reachable within 5 minutes with no abstraction really takes you out of the immersion.
>>729004423>>729004463QoL culture is a cancerous tumour spreading throughout gaming. I understand why devs hate mods and don't want their games to be moddable now.
>>729010834When did "cheats" get renamed to "QoL?"
>>729010941I first came aware of it when /tg/station added the QoL label for their github PR changelogs and they were mostly used for balance changes to avoid any form of friction. I knew at that point /tg/station was about to fall.
>>729010348>Again with the weird projection.There's no projection, that's just me summing up what you are because your type is easy to spot here. If you'd like to prove otherwise, feel free to post a folderpath containing art you've made or assets you're to make a game to prove with this kind of stuff. Even a folder showing modding tools or something. And remember, if you're angry and feel called out enough to reply then saying "I don't have to prove anything" doesn't work because it's obvious you're upset and want to argue but just can't post proof.
>>729004423i use teleport to cell and noclip to get around morrowind's gay terrain honestly
>>729012164sure but its safe to assume you've played enough Morrowind vanilla to already know what you would be missing.the whole convenience angle itt is about gameplay design that will have you miss out on parts of the game from the get go out of fear of losing that current goal post of 'flow state'
>>729004423So poor mechanics are the key to soul?No wonder nobody likes games with soul.
>>729004423convenience is a good thing assuming it aids engagement in the actual gameplayfast travelling in morrowind is just bypassing gameplay for minimal cost so I agree it sucks, but making games easier to interface with so you can engage with the actual good design is always a good thing
>>729012985What are your thoughts on the image in >>729004463
>>729011459You sound like a modder who thinks their contributions are an integral part to Bethesdas success.If so impress me by saving Starfield. Until then shut your fucking mouth.
>>729013042functionally identical as pokemarts and and pokecenters are almost always in the same "safe area" towns, so it saves time to get to the actual gameplay.That's a good convenience, like how in older RPGs the town screen is entirely navigated through a menu
>>729013060>You sound like a modder who thinks their contributions are an integral part to Bethesdas success.Swing and a miss. I also noticed you replied without posting any proof that you have any fucking idea what you're talking about. You are categorically an ignorant retard with nothing of worth to say on the subject of game design.
>>729013195I judge thee..soulless.
>Your journey is an adventure. You don’t just decide “I wanna be across the world”. It should be an adventure, we should take advantage of it, y’know, getting somewhere. Finding a dungeon travelling up in the mountains, battling away through stuff. Roadside adventures are cool. Finding a guy on the side on the road, like “Have you seen my wagon?” That’s cool, we’re missing this opportunity by just having fast travel.- Todd Howard, 2000
>>729009448>>729009772I can tell this guy only plays games if they have cheevos
>>729004639bingo
>>729004839>the literal main quest gives incorrect directions to the dwemer ruin.That was intentional. The guy giving the directions had a poor memory, you shouldn't have trusted him.
>>729010652Oblivion and Skyrim both did that. You didn't have to use the map fast travel
>>729010834>>729010941>>729011124You lost.
mark&recall plus almsivi and divine interventions are the most convenient spells ever made. that plus the silt striders and ships make travelling morrowind trivial.>and the pylons!nobody used those
>>729015202No they did not. Oblivion didn't have anything like that and Skyrim just had the cart.
>>729014391What went so, so wrong?
>>729015581Skyrim still has all the things he mentioned though.
>>729004920>cleared the entire dungeon from top to bottom>realise I missed a room right at the startDespite all its flaws, Morrowind was really memorable
>>729010834okay but what if I want to mod some of those inconveniences back in, like the timer in Dead Rising or tank controls in silent hill
>>729004920Sufferhttps://www.nexusmods.com/morrowind/mods/49781
>>729004423I somewhat agree with you but Cliff Racers are utter cancer. A good compromise would to do it like the old Fallout games. You can "fast travel" and see the route your character takes but can/will be stopped by common random/enemy encounters so it still encourages you to take the Silt Striders.
>>729004423So’s having a life, I guess.
>>729015957>it can be in one of 142 different places nowThis sounds absolutely terrible and i'm going to do it next time I install the game again
Lol yeah right. I'll always shit on Satisfactory for wasting the players time with its terrible tiny blueprints that don't get bigger until dozens of hours into the game. If a game doesn't respect your time it's because nobody forced the devs to sit down and play it from start to finish.
Role playing game = playing a role in a game's setting. As in, doing a task. Maybe the task isn't always fun but it grounds you in that universe. In other words, Dark Souls 2 and Zelda BotW aren't full RPGS but the weapon durability was a good mechanic, get filtered.
>>729014604I can tell you're the kind of retard that pretends to be a based oldfag gamer but doesn't actually play old games.
>>729016403>weapon durability was a good mechanicMechanic itself is fine but the problem was the game didn't offer enough rewards to encourage exploration.>inb4 exploration should be its own rewardBotW setting is too boring for that. Elden Ring had a similiar issue of most treasure not being worth it dependent on what you specialize but got away with it because the setting and scale was far and above more grand.
>>729016148There's a spot where it can actually spawn right there at the entrance outside the fucking door
>>729016407Nah
