>people were calling this a smash killer
None of them were serious
why are no smash clones good or even higher than wii shoverware tier? is sakurai autism the secret spice?
>>729021508THREAD THEMEhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDb91xKfa4E
>>729021508not many iconic guys
>>729021508Smash IS dead, thoughbeit.
>>729021720It's polish. Smash FEELS good to play and that translates very well to how the characters move and interact on the screen. NASB always looked stilted and clunky, and I don't think it's due to budgetary reasons either. I don't really want to praise Soccerguy too much because he fucks up plenty of things too, ESPECIALLY in Ultimate, but there is a certain level of attention to detail in Smash that simply makes it a more appealing game to play.
There is no such thing as a Smash killer, just like there's no such thing as a Pokemon killer, or a Zelda killer - and there never will be. Smash isn't a video game, it's an event. No one actually cares about the gameplay of Smash, they care about how their favorite video games are represented in Smash, and Sakurai is genuinely very good at that. Whether the gameplay is good or bad is an afterthought to the majority of players. What matters is that Smash has a monopoly on the crossover party game market, just like Fortnite has a monopoly on the crossover FPS market. The very nature of being a crossover-driven game means that there can only be one successful one, and any attempt to create an alternative is a very obviously inferior imitation.
>>729022229Smash, especially Ultimate has a certain OMPH to the impacts; that last hit you get when the last stock gets launched has that effect that feels amazing everytime. Meanwhile games like Nick Brawl feel like a child slowly banging toys together.>>729022413The threads on Nick Brawl and Multiversus were nothing but the same group of discordfags who spent nearly 4 years rosterfagging for Ult
>>729021720>>729022229>>729022727It's literally IP, I don't know how many times it needs to be proven beyond any doubt for retards to start to get it, it's literally only due to the IPTake ANY Smash clone you want regardless of quality, switch its characters around with Smash, have Nintendo publish the clone with their own IPs and characters while the Smash-playing-OC-filled game gets to stand on its gameplay merits, and the one with Nintendo IPs wins againIt's literally only IP
>>729022743Nah it's polish as someone that's actually put thousands of hours into these games
>>729021508Only the TMNT looks like someone that would be fun to watch in action in a fighting game. I guess Spongebob is obviously going to be there no matter what but this just doesn't look appealing as a fighting game/smash clone.Dogshit roster.
>>729022813Nah, it's IP
>>729022876You know who would know? The outsider, obviously
>>729022927It's definitely IP though
>>729023052Smash is the only good platform fighter and it's why people play them. Rosterfags dont even play smash at all so it cant be IP
>>729021508>branding that appeals to children who watch cartoons>gameplay that appeals very strictly to purists of a game that released in 2001I feel like that explains enough why it didn't work, I don't know what they were going for here.Then as >>729022229 said, animations lacked polish so it didn't feel quite right, and also it initially lacked any voice acting which made the characters feel kinda dead, so it failed on both fronts anyway
>>729023119But the success is definitely due to IP
>>729023163That probably brought some people in but polish is what keeps them around and keeps them coming back. That logic easily goes into other platform fighters. They're all awful so they dont stick around, making smash seem even more successful in comparison. Smash being good can easily lead to more people playing it. If the games genuinely good you're more than likely to try and get your friends to play it with you which has happened with smash for 2 decades
>>729023454Nah no one would stick around if not for the IP
>>729021720They're copying the wrong parts of Smash. They need to copy the care and polish.>Playstation All-StarsCopied the IP crossover aspect, but every other aspect of the game's design is inferior to Smash. The gameplay itself is the worst part, requiring you to knock out other players exclusively with super moves.>BrawlhallaThis shit is an enigma that needs to be studied under a microscope. A lot of Brawlhalla's success has to do with the fact that it's free and runs on a potato, which is convenient for the South Americans who play it.>NASBAgain, copied the IP crossover aspect, but NASB1 is very evidently a cheap game devoid of content. The visuals are low quality, especially the animations, which are the most important part of any fighting game's presentation. The more obvious issue with its presentation is the lack of voice acting in NASB1. Both games have a competitively-oriented design philosophy, with NASB2 genuinely being a fun platform fighter; but the skill ceiling is too high for audience for a Nickelodeon platform fighter. It's a complete contradiction: Ludosity wanted to develop a real, semi-competitive platform fighter, while GameMill wanted to publish an overpriced party game.>MVSAGAIN, copied the IP crossover aspect, and actually did it better than PSA and NASB, but fucked up virtually everything else beyond belief. MVS came the closest to emulating Smash's attention to detail in representing IPs, but the game itself is garbage: slow, awkward movement that makes it look like characters are floating around the screen; touch-of-death combos; characters abandoned by the developers because they, by their own admission, couldn't balance them. MVS didn't know what it was or what it wanted to be, it just wanted to prey on people's emotional attachments to brands.>>729023119Rosterfags play Smash, but they're the type of people who are bragging about "finally" getting one character into Elite Smash 6 years after the game released.
>>729021720They have the budget of a ham sandwich, and are made by inexperienced C-tier developers.
>>729021508it gave me jenny so i'm happy
>>729021508>>"people"Did you mean blacks and wiggers?
>>729023454>>729022813>>729022229It's IP AND polish, it's not mutually exclusive. The IP is the cheese, the polish is the trap. You tell someone>There's a game where you can play [insert favorite character] and beat up Mario and Sonicand that lures them in. Next thing they know, they're reading trophy descriptions, playing through Classic modes that reference the characters' games of origin, playing Melee's Adventure mode, watching SSE's cutscenes, or experiencing the endless side content. They go from being a fan of a Nintendo IP to a Smash fan.
They don't put heart and care into the gameplay aspect so all clones play like janky shit a toddler could program in flash in a weekend
>>729024187Ip and polish brings in two completely different groups of peopleIP brings in the tendies and casuals that dont even play onlinePolish brings out the compniggers and casual online multiplayer gamers
>>729024702>polish>compniggersSo you have no idea what you're talking about. Competitive players have hated every version of Smash for its gameplay and balance except the one that was rushed out in a blatantly imbalanced, bugged state, Melee. 64 is interesting competitively too, but let's not pretend that it isn't incredibly niche. Melee was what gave birth to the idea that Smash can be a competitive game, and it's an idea that Sakurai clearly hated. Brawl tripping was designed to spite competitive players, Nintendo tried to prevent people from playing competitively at multiple points, and 4 and Ultimate have only begrudgingly accepted that people are going to do so no matter what Sakurai or Nintendo do.
>>729025167Literally thousands of people play ultimate competitively and it's a more popular esport than melee. Also sakurai invited comp players to play smash ultimate on a livestream before the game was released and even hosted a tournament for them
>>72902516764 already had tournaments before Melee. Pikachu and Kirby got nerfed hard because, even this early, they were known to be OP in 64.
>>729025364He also had comp players playtest it, like aMSa and 9B.
>>729025364>>729025792You didn't read the final sentence>only begrudgingly accepted that people are going to play competitively no matter what they doAfter Brawl, they accepted that competitive Smash is going to exist whether they want it to or not, and the compromise that Nintendo has made is that they'll let people play it, but they'll play on their terms. In other words, it's exactly what Nintendo does with their other IPs. Splatoon also has officially endorsed competitive tournaments (with arguably more support than Smash), but look at the game: you can't even choose stages, you're beholden to the stage rotation. Mario Kart has online rankings, time trials, and official leaderboards, but no amount of mini-turbos will ever prevent you from getting hit by enough items to go from 1st to 12th in the blink of an eye.Nintendo is playing a balancing act with competitive Smash. Sometimes they play nice, sometimes they try to get it banned from Evo, shut down tournaments, or stop tournaments from banning Steve.
>>729021720Slap City is good. NASB was rushed and then none of the talented Ludosity people worked on the sequel.
>>729026172I dont understand how it's even relevant. Polish brought compniggers in, end of story
>>729021720It's because Sakurai invests a lot of time and effort into polishing the experience. The only other platform fighter that comes close is Rivals of Aether, which itself is proof that the IP part of Smash matters.RoA1 doesn't looks visually polished because its early pixel art was never replaced, so characters that the developer animated with no artistic experience are on the same screen as some pretty impressive pixel art. But behind the bad pixel art, it's an extremely polished, fun game with, like Smash, a lot of time and effort put into polishing it. RoA1 and 2 have the most creative characters I've played in any platform fighter (and I've played pretty much all of them), and the level of polish is pretty impressive for an indie studio. I don't know who did 2's animations, but they're Smash quality, which is something I can't say for any other platform fighter.The thing is that the game completely lacks the IP part of Smash, NASB, and Multiversus, so it's very bad at hooking players. It also lacks singleplayer content because the developers prioritized multiplayer and other features from RoA1. The characters and setting are good enough, but because they're original characters no one cares. They try to do worldbuilding with the characters, stages, marketing, and even spin-off games, but it's nothing compared to what Smash can do. And then there's people who refuse to play it because it's "furry".I'm not joking when I say that this is probably one of the best modern fighting games. Not just platform fighter, but fighting game. I'm not interested in shilling it because, one, I know people won't play it and, two, because it's years away from being a Discord fighter. I find matches easily whenever I pick it up after putting it down. I'm just saying that you need both the IPs and the polish, because one or the other doesn't get people to play your game.
>>729026594>I dont understandcould have stopped there
>>729021720Smash Bros is actually really well designed, Multiversus flopped because the gameplay was dogshit, NSAB2 flopped because it had no polish and tried to cater to meleefags.
>>729021720Smash clones both lack the polish and ambition of Smash. It's the same reason why Mario Kart clones all suck ass— they all just try to be the big one of the genre without doing anything genuinely interesting or unique, but they're not as good at doing it as the big one, so there's literally not reason to play them.Rivals of Aether at least had some cool mechanical differences, which is why it had a decent fanbase for a while, but then RoA2 was just "Melee but worse" again.
>>729026992RoA2 feels and plays different from Melee, in my opinion. In terms of feel, Melee is much more demanding and precise, partially due to the lack of input buffering, but also because of mechanics like character's having different jump squat frame data, wavedash and dash dance timings, and different frame windows for short hopping. RoA2's input buffering and universal mechanics make it feel like driving automatic, while Melee feels like driving stick. It takes a while to remember how to move in Melee, but it clicks when you do.In terms of play, mechanics that are seemingly similar function in very different ways. The ledge and edgeguarding in RoA2 feel nothing like Melee beyond ledgedash being a get out of jail free card. RoA2 added grabs and shields, but they're nothing like Melee's. Grabs are designed to be either combo starters or DI mix-ups, and kill throws are nonexistent. They're also intentionally designed to counter the game's equivalent of crouch canceling / downward ASDI. So many MUs in Melee rely on the existence of chaingrabs on fastfallers, which also don't exist in RoA2 (nor is there a Final Destination equivalent to chaingrab people on). Shields? Same shit. Shields are weaker to pressure, but they don't decrease in size, meaning you can't shieldpoke people, especially on platform. So shield-dropping works differently too. Combined with the lack of L-canceling and existence of parry from RoA1, two more big differences, this creates a completely different defensive dynamic.I could keep going, but my point is that Melee and RoA2 are only similar superficially, and people should stop repeating this shit as if it's at all true. Melee players stick to Melee for a reason, the game just feels different.
Imo rivals 2 gets it right but sacrificing skill was too much of a deal breaker for me, it just made the game too boring. Combos are too easy to land
if the recipe for a successful smash clone is>rosterfaggotry>polish>fanservicewhy hasn't any gacha developer made a party game spin-off for free, infinite money
>smash but with gacha outfits and crossplatformI would play
>>729028648Granblue kinda did that, though it's a traditional fighter instead of a platform fighter. GBFVS is shockingly popular, even.
>>729021508NASB2 was pretty good.
>>729028641combos in rivals 2 go one of three ways for me>this is my boring bread-and-butter and i'm only doing it so you're not at floorhug %>this is my boring kill confirm and by fishing for it i am admitting defeat>this is the sickest combo i've ever done and you should be dead IRL>>729028776i do think that GBFVS is a success story as far as 2D fighting games go, although i'm thinking more about the gameplay. simple inputs are honestly fine, it's the stuff that surrounds them that makes me want to kill myself: drive rush in SF6 and 10 second long 90% HP combos in 2XKO, for example.
>>729028996unfortunately the pricing ruins it>it's $9 on steam right nowfuck, i might try it, but it'll be a tough sell to my friends
they should turn smash into a 3d game like power stone
