Behold the immersion killer
>>729038662Why even play games when you can just look at a screenshot? You can also imagine that it's fun
>>729038662The "I wonder what's out there" feeling died when I noclipped through map boundaries in TF2 and found that hardly any of the "out there" had any substance to it. They're just illusory setpieces, sprites in the background of arenas in turn-based games are no different.
>>729039021You were a child that wanted the magician to explain the magic trick more than you wanted to live in a world with magic
>>729038662
>>729038662>Op doesn't find the adventure and discovery thrilling and exciting.aww poor baby, did you want a shining golden treasure chest at the end of the rainbow so you could feel special?
What's out there is beyond your imagination.
>>729038662Okay now go look at the border of the map in BotW and make up an excuse for how this argument totally doesn't apply to wondering what's out there.
>>729040541>it's hidden away and rarely actually seen while playing >it just looks like a low poly mess inconsistent with the detail in the actual world>the fact you've thoroughly explored such a large area and found nothing already an expectation pattern that the larger world itself is also like thatWhen you spend 100 hours exploring Minecraft and realize you've seen all the game has to offer and it's meh, you have no reason to think exploring further will yield anything new
>>729038662Just make the cool place to discover when you go over there, the choice isn't a binary between imagination or nothing at all.
“Part of the attraction of The L.R. is, I think, due to the glimpses of a large history in the background: an attraction like that of viewing far off an unvisited island, or seeing the towers of a distant city gleaming in a sunlit mist. To go there is to destroy the magic, unless new unattainable vistas are again revealed.”
>>729041826This is a sort of a "grass is greener" situation, the feeling is an illusion and can only exist as an illusion
>>729038662What game is the first pic?
>death mountain looks cool>go there>it is cool
Mario Sunshine and Spongebob BFBB did this best. They have a somewhat linear structure, but you can see other levels in the distance before you actually visit them, build-up and payoff.
>>729038662What's there to wonder? You can literally see in the top image there's absolutely nothing but empty field all the way to the horizon. No town in sight anywhere in the distance. Just miles and miles and miles and miles of grass and small patches of trees.
>>729042174This is so stupid but great.
>>729042250You wouldn't get it
>>729042174I found it rather hot
>>729039149Every fucking week.
I don't have to wonder anything about ToE, it's literally just empty fields, a world as barren and empty as that of any Tales of.
>>729039269Discovery of what, exactly?
>>729042128That's a blanket statement that doesn't mean anything. You can always imagine more and more until what might as well be infinity. I can show you a solid black image and you can imagine the most horrifying creature imaginable lurking in the dark, but that wouldn't make it a good piece of horror themed art. It's the job of the writer, artist, level designer, etc to spark the thoughts in the one engaging with the work and direct them in specific directions.
>>729038662Out there where? The fighting area background? Nothing obviously
>>729042617>It's the job of the writer, artist, level designer, etc to spark the thoughts in the one engaging with the work and direct them in specific directions.Exactly, and showing them everything will always destroy the thing that sparks their imagination, as Tolkien says here >>729042063
>>729042174holy fuck that blindsided me. thank you for sharing.
>>729042695Okay, and now tell me to what extent you can go. How much is everything? How much is too much, how much is too little? Are these thresholds universal, or is it different for every individual? Do they only apply to specific settings like open world games, or does reaching a wall in a linear RPG also destroy the illusion of a broader world? If you go to the edge of the open world game and find a chest seemingly randomly on a stone temple or a mountain with no way to cross, is that immersion breaking or are you supposed to apply your imagination to dream up the reasons why in the context of the broader lore?
>>729042695>>729042063>unless new unattainable vistas are again revealed.”
>>729043303>newthey look the same, but now the illusion is already gone
>>729043394the flat ground you can't walk on looks the same as the flat ground you can walk on in the "old good" example in OP.
>>729038662That's why I played modded Morrowind with a dozen massive mod quest lines that expanded virtually every area in the base game and then Tamriel Rebuilt that adds more new content than the entire base game. It'd take 200 hours minimum to see everything my Morrowind install has to offer and I modded to have combat that's arguably better than dark souls? Suck it normie plebs who play shit games and can't nod for shit. You will never experience peak gaming.
>>729038662What gamu is that in the top pic?
>>729043159You're asking me to put a hard limit on something that you yourself admit works on a case by case basis, the most encompassing definition would be something like>don't show so much that the player would be able to make accurate informed guesses about the rest of the world based on available information For example if your game has dozens of enterable houses but they're all just a couple of walls and boring non-interactive doodads, then showing them a house far away on the horizon won't do anything to activate their imagination since they'll be able to conclude every house in this world is boring, but if you show them a dozen unique hand-crafted houses meant to surprise and intrigue the player, to the point they're looking forward to seeing what's in the next one, then placing some unreachable houses on the horizon will intrigue themMost open world games basically never go through the effort of fleshing out a unique interesting world and opt for the "repetitive sandbox" approach, which means that the players can make informed guesses on what's the rest of the world like (boring and repetitive) due to the sheer sample size they have available
>>729038662I unironically found calm, slow exploration in BotW fun. It's like going for a long-ass walk in a big city, most of the time you'll find nothing particularly interesting but it's still enjoyable to both see new places and go "wait, I've been here before, I know where to go from here". And occasionally you stumble into something actually mildly interesting, like a little mom-and-pop store selling imported candy, or an oldschool non-OSHA compliant playground, or two random fiberglass bear statues (that you can buy on Aliexpress with free shipping) positioned in a way that makes it look like they are fucking doggystyle. You don't get much reward, I didn't even get to buy anything at the candy store the first time I found it because I didn't have cash on me, but I made a note to go back there and check it out again, and that's what makes those walks fun. BotW kind of reignited the same spark after I've lived bored for years as I've realised that I've walked every street in my own town already.
>>729043913>You're asking me to put a hard limit on something that you yourself admit works on a case by case basisNo, I'm pointing out that you are drawing an arbitrary line in the sand. You're the one making the black and white statement by making the distinction here.>Most open world games basically never go through the effort of fleshing out a unique interesting world and opt for the "repetitive sandbox" approach,That's irrelevant. There are also open worlds that do make the effort like Oblivion and Where Winds Meet, that doesn't suddenly make your argument invalid anymore than this point does to mine.
>>729038662ok what fucking brownoid made this shit?????????
>>729042605Nothing
>>729044447You can do that in any open world game, people only give this luxury to Zelda because it's a Nintendo game and therefore they have to search for reasons why it's good
>>729038662there is no bigger immersion killer than stupid jpeg background in linear games
>>729044580or maybe its because it's immersive in the right ways that make it the best.
>>729044730>it's immersive in the right waysBy having a Nintendo logo on the box
>>729038662THIS NIGGA COMPARING A FUCKING SNES RPG TO A FUCKING COMPLETELY DIFFERENT GAME. WHAT ARE THEY PUTTING IN THE FUCKING WATER THAT CAUSES THIS BEHAVIOR????FUCK YOU!
>>729039269If you know already what the discovery and reward is (shrine or korok seed) then what's the point? Story or journey ain't it, because tempo and urgency are 404.
>>729044764genuinely fuck you dishonest twat
>>729044851I don't get it why do people blatantly ignore all the other shit you can find?
>>729044480It's not an arbitrary line if such a thing as "showing too much" exists >That's irrelevant. There are also open worlds that do make the effort like Oblivion and Where Winds MeetI would say they try but ultimately don't succeed, Oblivion has tons of books that flesh out the greater world and history, but witnessing the capital city of the capital region ultimately have a dozen houses and a couple dozen NPCs that do the same things over and over kills the immersion into the world and the feeling that things actually happen Meanwhile if you play a linear game that only gives you a glimpse of a huge capital city and its bustling life once before permanently yanking you away from it, you can continue believing that the rest of the city is also bustling, and that the cities in the rest of the world are bustling, and the illusion of life and change are preserved
>>729044580>You can do that in any open world gameNot really. There are some good open worlds like Watchdogs, but replace Watch with Sleeping and you suddenly have a POS that you can explore down to the last nook in just a couple hours and is empty the entire way.
>>729045000>a POS that you can explore down to the last nook in just a couple hours and is empty the entire way.So the BOTW Hyrule?
>>729045063>So the BOTW Hyrule?NO YOU FUCKING CUNT!!!!! HAVE YOU EVEN PLAYED THE FUCKING GAME!?!?!??!
>>729044940They ignore it because they expected golden treasure chests and rewards.They are the type of gamer who cries for open worlds and then gets upset when its not a constant stream of dopamine given to them minute by minute.They never once considered cutting a tree down across a river to cross it, or rolling a boulder down hill to kill enemies. Nothing fun, no adventure, no thrill of just wanting to see what was over that next mountain ridge.Just screaming that there wasnt a big pot of gold to reward them for walking over the mountain.
>>729044839>Tales of Eternia>SNES
>>729045174>make your own funHere's the best book ever written anon
>>729044945>It's not an arbitrary line if such a thing as "showing too much" existsIt is, because what constitutes too much or too little is subjective.>would say they try but ultimately don't succeedI would disagree, but regardless it is irrelevant. You're no longer talking about the concepts here, just specific executions that you don't think worked. There's no reason why an Open World game couldn't do exactly what you praise linear titles for on a larger scale.
>>729038662I really liked BotW but I never want to play it again. It feels like a one and done. Once you have done the exploration there's nothing really to do. Wish they didn't gatekeep every upgrade behind a shrine.
>>729045181lmao so its a playstation game.....I see now....
>>729045243cope
>>729045265its not as much about replaying, its more of just staying in the world. I think the machine building and loot autism in TotK improves on this
>>729045247>It is, because what constitutes too much or too little is subjective.This is an appeal to absurdity because subjective topics are discussed all the timeJust because fun is subjective doesn't mean game design as a discipline can't set out to determine what's fun and what isn't, just because the feeling of a living world is subjective doesn't mean we can't set out to determine what lines shouldn't be crossed in order to preserve that feeling
>>729045243>Thinks this is a slam dunk argument.Nigga I love to write for fun and turned a hobby of doing artwork into a career in game design.Do you not enjoy staying mentally active and being creative?Do you think people go on hikes just to breathe a little harder and feel tired?
>>729045474That doesn't make any sense, we are discussing it right now and I'm calling your subjective position on it arbitrary.
>>729045243go back to playing concord zoom zoomcome on lets go...
>>729039021>glitch outside the map>some of the ground actually has collision there>there's a few low poly buildings and facadesFinding areas like that was epic. I always just imagined the rest kind of like when you're reading a book and it describes some of the shops and details that are on a street but you can kind of imagine the entire place.
>>729045831I spend more time being creative these days than playing games, that doesn't mean I'm going to praise you as the greatest writer ever if you hand me a stack of blank paper and tell me to write my own story
>>729038662*sigh* why does Christian media always get attacked like this?
>>729041473that’s because it’s primarily a building game. it’s like a toy, in Jen’s words
>>729039021Damn you reminded me of comfy exploration of TF2 maps with noclip
>>729045243Really pissed off the tendies, they can't even refute it
>>729045943> that doesn't mean I'm going to praise you as the greatest writer ever if you hand me a stack of blank paper and tell me to write my own storyHOLY FUCKING PROJECTION OF SHIT!Nobody asked you to do a single thing like that!
>>729038662>I wonder what's out thereThis stopped being interesting to me half my life ago. I don't care anymore, I just want good gameplay and a well designed and paced game.
>>729045860Things either feel fun or they don't, things are either immersive or they're not, just because the line is subjective doesn't mean it's arbitrary, and it doesn't mean we can't find the most common line and the most effective causes for fun and immersion
>>729045243>tendies go into a blind rage after thisholy kek you bodied those freaks
>>729045243this is literally ES. You don't even play as a defined character in that series
>>729045243lmao tendies seething, must be a day ending in y
>>729046156FUCK YOU!
>>729046134No, it doesn't, but the line that you have drawn is arbitrary.
>>729039105I like this comparison. Video games are just magic tricks
>>729039021lmao what a faggot
>>729046287It's not if it sums up my own feelings and experiences that line up with Tolkien's opinion on the matter
>>729045174If there's a random collectible or pickup there that's lame. It's much cooler if, for instance, in the different looking forest there's different kinds of enemy wildlife there that fight different than other NPCs. Even if you don't have to hunt any of them for a quest.I'd identify that the fun factor doesn't go up significantly if you just visit there to kill filler enemies or get a collectible (though filler enemies have more entertainment value if they're different) but when you place that forest inbetween cities so it's a convenient but dangerous shortcut, or near some bandits that you have to kill in a sidequest so a player that knows what's in the forest can bait the bandits into it for an easier fight, is where open world really comes into it's own.
When I played AC:Origins and Odyssey I was satisfied with the locations I've explored, even though there technically isn't much to do there. It still felt like the locations were rewarding to visit and explore.With BotW I never had that feeling. The locations look and feel merely perfunctory and "stock". If anything I felt more annoyed by reaching yet another tedious puzzle or bare-bones ruin with nothing of substance there.
>>729039269yeah, i do
>>729046490I agree.
>>729046510>AC:Origins and OdysseyMAXIMUM KEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEK
>>729044730>>729044447>play BOTW for the first time>not allowed to leave the great plateau because of a billion story triggers that force you back>not allowed to enter the divine beasts unless the story gives you permission (they literally don't exist on the map and have zero collision otherwise)>can't break into the gerudo city since they automatically catch you regardless of time of day, or where you try to enter from>can't fight your way in either, all the NPCs are invincible>several events just repeat endlessly, defeating their purpose (like saving those travelers from enemy mobs near the brkoen bridge, can't remember the exact locale)I've seen far more competent open world games. TOTK and BOTW were a trainwreck.
>>729043724My negro if Morrowind modded had a pussy I would fuck her in the ass
>>729046434And why exactly doesn't Tolkien's random quote apply to open world games too? What is the difference between a wall in an open world game, and a wall in a linear game?
>>729044447niggers on /v/ barely realize what's the sauce that made botw work is. it's basically an open world immsim, it runs on the logic "it you think it'll work it will" because it's based on specific and consistent physics and chemistry simulations.even the towers work differently than ubisoft towers despite having a similar function. ubisoft towers are just a "press a button get icons on map" shit, botw towers are vantage points that ask you to use your eyes to spot landmarks.botw has many flaws, but the base is so solid. totk was disappointing because it just felt like a big dlc. plus nintendo carried over some of its flaws like the dogshit ui into not only totk but other games as well.
>>729046676I explained it here >>729043913When you reach the wall in an open world game, you have seen a big enough sample of the world to conclude that there's probably nothing interesting out there, when you reach the wall in a linear game, there's a far greater chance you've seen mostly curated hand-made highlights of the world, which greatly increase your expectations for what's out there, like in the fully accessible small repetitive city vs small glimpse of an implied huge bustling city example here >>729044945
>>729046824>what's the sauce that made botw work isThe Zelda name in the title and the fact Nintendo advertised and published it as a flagship
>>729046824>if you think it'll work it willThen how do I get into the divine beasts without doing the quests? How do I fight my way into the gerudo outpost?
>>729038662>OPEN WORLD IS EMPTYAI will fix this
>>729046901what other games even offer botw's exact mix of physics/chemistry engine and massive open world?no seriously tell me, i haven't found one to scratch that itch>>729046943the gerudo outpost is a shitty part of the game, that i agree.
>>729046824>ubisoft towersI haven't played AssCreed, but when I played Watchdogs, the towers had the same kind of "getting to and up the tower is the puzzle" thing as BotW. They did unlock quest markers with the map, unlike BotW, which cut down on exploration opportunities, but you can't fault them for being press a button.
>>729046965get ai to fix ur miserable life xDddd
>>729046943>How do I fight my way into the gerudo outpost?anon, this is how I know you're a fake fucking zelda fan. Do you not know who the gerudo are supposed to be? Also this isn't fucking MGSV
>>729047121you could shoot them in oot and majora's mask
>>729047172yeah because those were specific stealth sections dolt
>>729046943Oh no, you pointed out a couple of rare exceptions so I'm now forced to admit the game is shit!
>>729038662BotW is actually one of the games that does exploration well. Whenever you go anywhere there's almost always something to find.
As a tendie I hate all open world games that aren't Xenoblade X and I really fucking hate botw and totk for ruining zelda a 2nd time
>>729047258>>729047252So why can't you stealth into the gerudo fortress or fight your way in? Are you telling you want more restrictions than what OOT offered?
>>729046832Yes, and all that is subjective to (you)r view. Its entirely possible that the larger open world could have just as much effort and handcrafted work put into it as the smaller linear jrpg, the distinction in size is entirely arbitrary. Why couldn't you just turn your own argument around and say that you can write off the linear game's broader world as uninteresting based on the fact that there's nothing in the very few areas that you can go too? Again, it's just an arbitrary line in the sand.The "edge of the game world' in both games perform the exact same function of marking the edges of the playable area, there is no functional difference between the two so any distinction is arbitrary. You could just as easily place the same background in the top image at the edge of an open world, and you have no reason why that wouldn't illicit the same response.You are making the claim that because you don't believe any open world games have achieved this, that means that no open world games can achieve this and that only linear titles can. It is just a meaningless blanket statement based on personal experience.
>>729047252it would be cool if botw had stealth instead of faggy crossdressing shiti know it's "japanese humour" but that doesn't make it fun to play, it's humilliating
>>729047915except BotW has a lot of stealth elements too?
>>729042174>death mountain looks cool>go there>it is coolBut enough about Ocarina of Time.
>>729047328You mean nothing. You get some sticks and fruits at best. Nothing that changes how you play the game.
>>729047971Then why can't you stealth into the gerudo town?
>>729047971i meant stealth against the gerudo, obviously
>>729038662you guys have lost your damn minds.
>>729047752I explained why multiple times you just don't want to come to terms with it, open world games can't show as much as your mind can imagine
>>729046965...It won't, because it can't.It can't imagine new and unique events with consistence and persistence like us humans. Either it will hallucinate something based on what you've already seen and you'll see where it doesn't make sense or it will just repeat something you already expected.
That's just a problem with open world games. It doesn't have to be one or the other, >>729041826 is correct.You can see the Forsaken Cainhurst Castle in the distance from Hemwick, in Bloodborne. You wonder what's out there. Both the way you access it through an optional questline and the area itself are awesome and completely unique compared to the rest of the game.The problem with open worlds is that there's much more land than there's meaningful content. You don't really wonder what's out there in BOTW because you know what's out there: shrines and korok seeds. In a non-open world game like Bloodborne, areas don't exist to pad the terrain, every single level is designed as a dungeon. If you can go there, it's worth your time.
>>729047534>ACfag is still aroundDammit man I thought they admitted you by now
>>729049578I can't miss an opportunity to dunk on console warriors.
>>729047258Then BOTW is not special because every open world game let's you do "everything! with exceptions.."
>>729049730>console warriors. damn you made us sound bad ass! please continue
>>729038662I don't know, looking at a flat PNG gets pretty boring after a while
>>729039149It's the same guy that posts anti-Zelda threads whenever there isn't anything substantial enough to try and hurt Nintendo with. Anti-Zelda threads are like his comfort food.
