What's up with this weird thing where people say "they only did that because of technical limitations" as if the results of said limitations aren't good?You know what I mean?The most popular example is Silent Hills fog, but it's like people think that just because something was made with limitations that somehow doesn't make it good
You need to talk to a professional about starting some medication
>>729043807I do have chronic handsomeness
>>729043891You might also be retarded and/or autistic
>>729043426>"they only did that because of technical limitations"It's more about sounding smart than saying it's not good.
I know what you mean but I don't think that's the implication, you might be asserting that yourself.Like just pointing out that it's a result of a limitation doesn't implicitly imply they think it's bad, those are 2 separate ideas.I'm sure some people think that way but not everyone.
>>729043426it's uncslop cope
>>729043963Unc is unmedicated and fabricating a make-believe argument in his head. He is then asking strangers to explain the motivation behind the make-believe argument.
>>729043993I think the game would be worse with the fog removed and saying otherwise doesn't sound like cope, it sounds insane.
>>729043963I wanna double down on this. Restraints demand innovation and/or excellence. A sort of filter that we don't really have anymore.
>>729044278SH1/2 play like shit and are extremely mid.
They only did this because of the technical limitations
Beat 4. Kino as shit, haters are dumb!!!!!!
>>729044485I usually only care about gameplay but for the sake of discussion I think the Silent Hill team's innovation was more centered around the world's setting and atmosphere than the gameplay mechanics. If anything you can make similar arguments to Resident Evil where some of the mechanics actively stunt the player's agency and ability. Some people hate that, some people appreciate it since your character isn't really intended to be super action man in these stories.Ignoring the gameplay I think it's still fair to say they did a good job creating scenes while working within the confines of the console.Fog and dither tech play a part in that, likewise with limited render distance / blackout.These aren't really gameplay mechanics but they certainly influence the feeling while playing imo. It adds some of the spook to the spooky game.
let's break this downthey wanted it to be foggy scenethey added fogfog isn't perfect because it's a video game
>>729044842Nah, zoomers can have that one, call it uncslop all they want
>>729043426It was a technical limitation of the PS1 that became a design aesthetic retard-kun.
>>729044278Yes that's a commonly expressed idea in art . Nintendo has talked about this recently and there is a French art collective from the 60s called the Oulipo who worked under this ideal. For instance Georges Perec who wrote "A Void" an entire novel written without using the letter E and also about the missing letter E. Almost more impressive is that it was translated into English while maintaining the lack of E.
>>729046079That's cool. I now want to read about the Oulipo sometime later.
>>729046079>>729046279If you ever read Oulipo, you'll quickly discover that it isn't particularly good, and I say this as a person that enjoys most post-modern experimental books. Sometimes imposing a limitation for the sake of it doesn't result in a particularly compelling art. In these cases, like Ducks Newburyport, the limitation is forced. There are other times, like Blood Meridian, where they aren't limitations, but stylistic choices.
>>729046963Correct, it's not super great. I like Raymond Queneu's Exercises in Style most of what I've read.
>>729044149nta, but you could make it better without fog and better tech. I can literally think of a way I'd like it more without fog.
>>729047332>I can literally think of a way I'd like it more without fog.Elaborate (if you want to - I'm just curious to hear it)
>>729043426Silent Hill's fog doesn't make the game better. The first game only has fog for the first half hour until it despawns entirely. The fog is basically completely irrelevant, but it's one of those things autistic SH2 video essayists have hyperfixated on.
>>729043426Who ever invented video game fog deserves a bullet between their eyes.>fog>grey>motion blur>fov>film grain>camera smoothingStraight to jail
>>729047540>arachnophobia mode>unskippable cutscenes>additional enemies in boss fights
>>729044278Most games are designed assets first and some token gameplay is only added later to justify the massive spending on assets, if hardware power hadn't consistently increased in the past most companies would've exited the game industry earlier. Systems-first game development is almost dead.
>>729043807>>729043915>immediately trying to shut OP up for bringing up something normalniggers really do sayYeah I fucking hate /v/ in 2025, or more aptly named as /v/eddit at this point.
>>729047409Sure. I'll say this knowing that people are married to the fog, but this is my pitch. Make the game darker, taking place mostly as dusk/night, add more dynamic light sources, make enemies less common and more threatening. This happens in SH1 environments where Harry relies on his flashlight indoors. It's almost the same concept but infinitely scarier.
>>729047691You're going to have to show me something where a normalnigger says this and has the intent OP is talking about.
>>729047595>>arachnophobia modeI never realised that was a thing, that's so hilarious LOL defo agree with unskippable slop, especially for someone who doesn't give a shit about the games story or lore
>>729047540fog is necessary, even on a clear day you need blue fog to make distant objects look realistic.
>>729047679>if hardware power hadn't consistently increased in the past most companies would've exited the game industry earlierStating what may be obvious: quantity probably doesn't matter in this context. Like if the developers that couldn't hang decided to exit it's not like gamers would be any better or worse off, it mostly eliminates the excess like shovelware studios while the quality remains.We have a phenomenon today where lots of new generation gamers are still playing old games, and studios themselves are only releasing remakes of old games. Not sure if there's a point to what I'm saying but it's what I'm thinking.>>729047734I can dig it. That amber/whatever from the exiting sun could certainly be effective at setting a scene's mood. I can imagine it.
>>729047970It already exists in the franchise, so it already works within the confines of the limitation, but it can be made infinitely better with less limitation
>>729047853No, I'm not, angry niggerbitch modern-games 'jeet shill
>>729048215This word vomit post is what happens when someone spends their formative years browsing 4chan and never grows out of it. You become unable to compose actual, human sounding sentences. Sad.
>>729048298This word vomit post is what happens when someone spends their formative years browsing 4chan and never grows out of it. You become unable to compose actual, human sounding sentences. Sad.
>>729048215lmfao, this nigga is in shambles
>>729047964But that's looking out for miles, I'm talking about looking across the street. It's a lazy design so the graphics guy can skip detail and just cover everything with fog. Just skip the detail and keep my screen clear rather than destroy it with fog.... Like if someone drinks my liquor, don't top it up with water in hopes I'll not notice just leave it as is. Strange analogy but feels somewhat similar
>>729048356The games industry is in shambles which is why even /v/ has so many faggots defending them, both paid indians and unpaid GCJ typesCan you understand this post now, newfag offsiter?
>>729048298>goes on imageboard with it's own terms and culture>shames people for using said terms and interacting the way they have for yearsSo where do you come from and why are you here?
>>729048854This, except directed at you, /pol/tard. This is the video games board, talk like a fucking human or fuck off back to your shithole.
>>729047970Shovelware had the lowest production values and was more common on aging systems that had a large install base and better documented architecture. Those companies had no regard for the quality of ANY aspect of their games because they weren't selling novelty like the AAA publishers, they sold crap to small children who had yet to develop any standards.
>>729043807fpbp
>>729048854As an oldfag, you zoomers and ex-redditors turned 4chan lingo into an embarrassing caricature of itself. Everything here is now a version of itself made to appeal to the lowest common denominator low IQ, demented retards, boiled down to it's most primitive aspects. People here used to have a sense of humor with their racist jokes etc. now it's just bitching and culture war shit with constantly repeated trigger words, the same topics all day. The worst part is that these people think they are smarter than Reddit and the rest of the internet for some reason, because they can say nigger.
>>729049012>/pol/ out nowhere>hates when normalnigger bullshit is criticized/pol/whiners consistently prove they're the actual worst posters on the site.
>>729049567That's great and all totally honest "oldfag" (you're not) with the thousandth "I'm totally and oldfag" post I've seen in the last few months specifically in the threads searmed by angry shills and faggots.
>>729048785>NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! NOT MY ELECTRONIC TOYS!kek
>>729048854Acting like 4chan isn't diverse has always seemed silly to me. As if everyone here agrees with or likes the lingo that some post.It also kind of defeats the purpose. We're supposed to be anonymous and free, but people try to turn it into a clubhouse with rules and code words. Which isn't the worst thing in the world but literally every other website is already that and this one never has been even with people always trying to force a single standard for posters to conform to. I'd rather have what we already have, people speaking naturally however they want to, without fear or repercussion. It's dumb when we try to conform or act like someone doesn't fit in here. There's nothing really to fit in to, or at least each group is on par with each other.
>>729049814You Reddit fags who think you are what this site has always been are insufferable.
It's the kind of thing that is so popularly repeated without thought that ends up being completely misunderstood. Like yeah, PS2 games with fog used that to hide technical limitations like render distance, but people tend to say that as if to mean that rendering this fog is easy. It is not, there's a reason why every port didn't manage to preseve it. The PS2 was a fill rate monster and could handle transparency effects better than the PS360 could.It was hiding a technical imperfection by using something that is actually quite demanding, just better suited for the PS2 hardware.Meanwhile the HD ports of PS2 games that had lots of transparencies had to come up with alternative solutions to hide their own technical limitations, despite being more modern hardware.
>>729049814Veterancy shouldn't have value here. We're not a forum where you accrue titles and points next to your sign-up date.Either the post has merit on its own or not. Who posted it should not matter or change the point of the text.
>>729044649Yikes, these graphics ain't it bro
>>729049894>dude the imageboard was always filled with people aggressively trying to push out anyone trying to not type and act like a normalniggerNo, it wasn't
>>729049969Why are you telling me this and not the guy doing exactly that you huge flaming faggot?
>>729050027I'm saying the opposite. We've always been diverse in every possible way. I don't understand why people try or want to act like 4chan has a singular culture that the entire site agrees with. It just isn't like that. It's not even possible to achieve.
>>729050065You're the one putting value in whether he is old or not instead of focusing on any other aspect.I don't think the other anon is saying he's old for any reason other than context, not as a "you must listen to me" remark.
>>729048854>me when someone doesn't agree with me for smashing my keyboard like a shit-chucking ape ok the tranime forum while I accuse my make-believe tormentors of coming from a different website
>>729050083Stop defending faggots who hate imageboard culture you didengenuous shit
>>729046963>There are other times, like Blood Meridian, where they aren't limitations, but stylistic choices.Or stylistic mistakes.
>>729050027>Make up fake characterization and argument nobody said due to retard-level comprehension No doubt about it, you're definitely from 4chan
>>729050208I won't and it wouldn't change anything either way. You and I do not have control over this. Not now, not in the past, not in the future.4chan is a public site. Good luck trying to convince literally the entire world what they can and can't say and do. Why would you even want that. It's gay and boring.>Let's just repost the same memes and words foreverI'd rather not.
SH1 had fog because spooky and lmao ps1SH2 had fog because the ps2 is a fillrate monster so the thicc, soupy fog could be done without murdering performance. This is why the ports at the time gimped the fog effect as you'd bring the xbox and any gpu of the time to its knees.
>>729048854You really pissed off someone
Because they did only do it because of the limitations...Reservoir Dogs...Jaws...
>>729043807fuck off retard
>>729050506
>>729050195>tranime forumYeah this thread is inorganically getting swarmed by people who hold nothing but spite for this place I was fucking right fuck all of you gaslighting faggots
>>729050743That's hilarious and totally fits in, you get that from your work-folder rajesh?
>>729050775Everyone is dunking on you because you're in a major melty crash out. It's blood in the water. For an """""""""old fag""""""""", you are easy af to tilt
It's easy to spot, if you say normie instead of normalfag then you have to get the fuck out
>>729050834>fits inoof
>>729050834Thinking about brown. Goddamn, I love having blue eyes and blonde hair while you eternally seethe at make believe brownoids that infest every fiber of your life.
>>729051093I imagine people like to pretend the person they're replying to is "mad" as a form of cope to handle differences and disagreements.Or they act like being mad is somehow a bad or uncommon thing that invalidates points made.I'm saying that's what I think of your post right now. It's hard to imagine your post is sincere in the slightest unless you're actually a child.
>>729043426Usually when people say this, it's because they ascribed intentionality to the decision. You'll find the more common time this actually gets discussed is Resident Evil, which the director resented so much that he said it was his motivation for 4's design.
>>729051093>Everyone kill yourself samefagging redditor
>>729051547Keep being a total tilted faggot, unc.
>>729051421Listen, when you curse and act like an ape, and give free (you)s, people will reply and rile you up. Just saying 'tranime' flipped a switch in blud's brain. If you're too retarded to recognize that, there really is no hope to be successful in any social situation with real people.
>>729051791I'm not the same Anon. I just think you're acting strange and this post reinforces that. You're making up arbitrary justifications for these posting habits that come across as weird if not ironic.
I find anons posts to be shallow and pedantic
>>729052010My brother in Christ, I said 'blud' and referred to him in the third and changed my tone. I know he's not you. This is what I'm talking about. You can't even read a couple of sentences without getting lodged into some sort of mental prison.
>>729052172In response to>Listen, when you curse and act like an ape, and give free (you)s, people will reply and rile you up.I was interpreting "you" as in me, not secondary.>You can't even read a couple of sentences without getting lodged into some sort of mental prison.Oh the irony of jumping to conclusions. kekIt's really interesting how easy it is for people to be honest, but it's unfortunate that they only seem to do it through projection.
>>729052278You really should talk to.someone about the medication.
>>729052424>joke defenseSorry if my last post was harsh. Genuinely. It's not fair for me to be mean to you for no good reason.
>>729052524Telling someone to get help isn't a joke
>>729043426can't answer because it's entirely dependent on the context in a conversation
>>729052560We both know that's not the case and I already apologized.
>>729052643I'm serious. I don't know you, but you have that style of speech and diction that tells me you're probably not an ace socially. I'm exaggerating, but I'm being dishonest.
>>729052790Not being dishonest*
>>729052790I'll humor you and say that I'm fine and that jumping to conclusion based on a few text interactions with a stranger isn't the best.Writing styles and standards vary greatly. This is 4chan, not English class. I don't put any effort into my writing style, it's all informal and off the cuff.In regards to social situations I think people request my time more often than I even like. Don't get me wrong, that's a nice and good thing, but idk there's certainly detriments to being well liked.In any case this is personal and not very interesting / on topic. Unless there's something specific you want to know we should probably drop it.
>>729053026Breh, I am not reading your long-winded post about nothing. Something-something brevity is the soul of wit. Saying you're doing 'fine' is a way of saying your social life is shit, but you begrudgingly accept it. I can't read any further into your post than that. Cheers.
>>729053238Yeah I think your expectations are a bit off for this place.You're all kinds of contradictory too. Showing concern but then not enough to read, choosing not to read then basing a conclusion on your assumptions. Odd stuff.Sorry it bothers you I guess. I'm not really sure what the point of this place is if not to type to each other. Seems funny that someone would complain about having to read in a conversation lol
>>729043426Intent vs constraint driven designThe fog in Silent Hill fits the intent of the game. It's a survival horror. It also works to bypass their technical limitations. The key is the intersection between both. But you start from either direction and end up in the same spot.I want this game to have fog, the fog helps prevent us from running into technical limitations. We can't render everything, fog fits the game and helps us bypass our technical limiations. For it to work well it has to fit the game. You can't just add something random as a fix. You need to find a way around the problem that still fits with the game. Games were already made under certain constraints, so some of the typical go to solutions may have been chosen and then tweaked to fit the specific game. Technical limitations are much lower than they used to be, so nowadays someone would have to intend to add fog to their game.The constraints back then lent themselves well to coming up with creative ways to bypass them. So nowadays, they can mainly focus on intent without having to combine the two.When someone says they only did that because of technical limitations, what they're saying is they may not have added everything in the game if they didn't have to.
>>729053407Your expectations are off. You came here expecting a certain type of discourse, and that expectation doesn't make sense on 4chan and especially this topic. This thread was doomed from inception. The question posed was rooted in an borderline retarded assumption and jumping to a conclusion. There was no way to have productive conversation from the very first post. This isn't the place for that, but even if it was, the OP was so steeped in unfounded assertions, that real discourse was rendered impossible. Do you understand that. Now knowing this, what's the unsaid conclusion?
>>729053782Sorry but that's a bit too wordy for me. I'll read it tomorrow maybe.
>>729047485It fits the theme though. It's not just random.
>>729053854I agree. Read it later so I don't need to read your reply.
>>729053974The theme is water vapor? nta, what am I missing here?
>>729053995Damn dude. Alright maybe it was mean of me to use your joke against you but come on. Don't be such a sour puss.
>>729054132I actually 100% expected it but I'm trying to save myself some time here
>>729053974>James unveils the truth>Town is still obscured in fog during the final boss and endingsNah, it's random.
>>729054221If you want an honest response I think the thread already achieved what you said was impossible, and that was before our exchange.Our meta conversation qualifies for a second actual discussion too, albeit off topic. Before that there were plenty of interesting posts about the subject and there is still time and space for plenty more.You're also off base, I don't expect discourse here, I create it and engage with it. It's more than possible to do here, it's common. Just because the other 50% exists doesn't remove the other half.Trying to typecast 4chan is something every generation seems to try and do, but it never makes much sense.>This isn't the place for thatlolStrongly disagree. This is one of the few places left online where you can be open and honest, have sincere speech without fear.Good luck doing that anywhere else. Meanwhile we're doing it right now.>save myself some time We're at odds. I specifically come here to pass time and talk with people about things.I'm not saying I'm intentionally wasting time, but I'm not in any kind of rush and don't take writing as seriously as you seem to expect people here too.Pascal said "I'd write you a shorter letter, but I didn't have the time". This is kind of how I use 4chan sometimes.My posts are genuine, but I'm not spending 20 minutes revising it and cutting it down just to satiate some linguistic autists who can't parse it unless it's formal.
>>729054047it works with the theme of the game. they could have chosen other solutions. the solution also adds to the game. a survival horror game that has erie fog.here's an example>you need a door>you buy a door>door is painted like rainbow>it doesn't fit the style of your house>you paint the door to fit the style of your house>you install the newly painted doorproblem solved. you have door and it fits the style of your house
>>729043807>>729043915mad newfag nigger>i said MEDS and called someone else autistic do I fit in yet????no 2011+ newfag nigger you do NOT
>>729054493fog is dreamlike. represents white space. the greater world around doesnt exist or matter. they also still needed the fog, so why would they remove it.
>>729054570>it works with the theme of the gameIn what way? What does the fog have to do specifically for each SH entry that it's in that ties to the themes of the game?
>>729054613>post still paying dividends in the form of major melty crash outs
>>729043807Based
>>729054990What's up with the kids today wanting people to be mad? They act like it's a good thing to make people mad.
where is that guy posting webms?
>>729043426>turn based games only existed because of hardware limitationsLots of reasons why this is retarded. Real time action games have always existed and even pre-date turn based games. Also, turn based games existed moreso originally due to their genesis from turn-based TTRPGs.>turn based games are outdated and obsoleteTurn based games will never die. To see why, you simply need to examine the myriad environments that a person might play a game in. Not everyone sits down with infinite time in a distraction-less white room while playing.As a father of 2 toddlers, I can't lock in for a 30min esports match. I'm not going to be the dude who has his ignored kids screeching in the background. A turn based game (or at least a game that can be paused) lets me intersperse gaming with my life and responsibilities. And this is coming from someone who played the hell out of fighting games and FPSs when I was single. But parents aren't the only demographic that benefits from turn based games. People playing games while "working", texting friends, quickly responding to the call of an abusive parent, or doing another task that involves lots of waiting etc are all good candidates for turn based games. You also now have zoomies flipping through TikTok/YouTube while gaming on a different device.Aside from catering to lifestyles that action and online games don't, there is a puzzle/problem solving niche that turn based games do way better. Very good for people who like to think through complex problems that take a long time.
At some point somebody decided art from adversity is bad because for some reason modern games don't have the same hardware limitations of old games. I don't understand how that means old good game are now bad. You literally saw it happen with RE4, WHICH WAS NOT A GAME THAT SUFFERED FROM HARDWARE LIMITATIONS.
>>729043426The idea that a limitation can inform a more deliberate design decision is a concept that filters a lot of people. In their mind, they're two opposing forces.
>>729055827>As a father of 2 toddlers, I can't lock inYour kids are already fucked if they're being raised by a faggot using zoomer slang
>>729043807I don't think *you* should talk to a professional. I think you should overdose on painkillers and get it over with. It's for the better.
>>729044926You've got it wrong. The fog masks the game's low render distance while still meaningfully contributing to its atmosphere. It's a design choice brought on by technical limitations.
>>729043807Goddamn, all that seething from your post. You know you struck a nerve
