But it’s not? Is Miyazaki retarded?
That doll owes me sex
Why IS the moon considered feminine in Souls games when it’s in fact the opposite irl?
>>729071573European myths broadly have the moon as feminine. Ranni is inspired by Hecate
>>729071684HuhThe moon is usually female. BLEED FOR ME
>>729071814The moon is masculine more often than feminine. Mani, Khonsu, Thoth, Chandra, Sin/Nanna, and Tsukuyomi are all male lunar deities. It’s less common for the sun to be feminine, but examples exist, like Sol/Sunna and Amaterasu.
The moon and magic are both female. Gaia itself is female.
>>729071684>when it’s in fact the opposite irl?Huh? The moon was always considered feminine in lots of cultures, while the Sun is the all-father. What the fuck are you talking about??
>>729071573>Umm... you can't do make believe like this... kek wtf
>>729071848>Tsukuyomi are all male lunar deitiesAre you saying final fantasy 14 lied to me
>>729071851Sun/moon deities are typically male in myth. The sky/heavens is male, while the earth/nature is female.
>>729071868See >>729071848The foremost god of magic and science (wizardry, period) in the west is a moon (later incorporating the stars and the sun) god first and foremost.
>>729071914The sun is male. The moon is female. Earth is female. These are objective facts.
>>729071848The moon is absolutely not masculine "more often" than it's feminine. The moon is very often equated to femininity because of the cycles of moon being seen to represent women's menstrual cycles.
>>729071956Nope. In Egyptian myth for instance the moon and sun are both male. This makes sense, too, since Egyptian is gay as fuck.
I have a specific hate for Elden Ring because now whatever few readers I have on my fantasy novel claim that I'm inspired by it.
Women suck in academia, historically speaking, but also objectively speaking, so it makes complete fucking sense that a male moon would be a total simp for its favorite female, allowing her to reign supreme amongst other men.It’s relatively more common for moon/sun deities to be male, not female. Rennala being associated with the moon is symbolical of masculinity sponsoring the feminine. Rennala broke into a men’s club, taking it over, which she could only accomplish with the help of masculine magic.Women aren’t the academic/magic sex.
>>729071983>muh menstrual cyclesShut up you dumb wiccan
not really. ymir reveals that the universe and its matter is just their big bang equivalent (which would mean frenzy will be their non-existence equivalent). the moons you see are literally just moons.magic and so on is exactly that. magic. just as swords are swords.
>Rennala being associated with the moon is symbolical of masculinity sponsoring the feminine. Rennala broke into a men’s club, and took it over, which she could only do with the help of masculine magic.Holy shit. It all makes so much sense now. I used to think this was an insufferable feminist fantasy game. Now I see it’s a lesson in letting women into men’s hobbies.
>>729072198What did Rennala even do wrong
>>729071848All these are small time compared to Luna. I don't care about some offshoot of some curry religion. We will take the Roman interpretation, thanks.
>>729072198It’s still an insufferable feminist game. A woman should not be smarter than a man. Imagine thinking staring at the moon takes up more brainpower than staring into deepest space. BRAVO MIYAZAKI.>>729072195Ymir, you say?>conjuring mini moons coats 72 int>conjuring a mini universe costs 42 intBRAVO MIYAZAKI
>>729072254The true Greco-Roman interpretation was actually the Greco-Egyptian interpretation, which was that the moon god of Egypt was associated with their (Greek) god of writing.
>>729072283>This level of belly aching is what not having sex does to a mf
>>729072325>The true thing was actually something different you see kek, that is one hell of a no true scot
>>729071573moon has always been associated with feminity
The sun is the acting agent (male) the moon is the reacting agent (female). The moon moves in cycles (female)
>>729072251She technically halted the cutting edge science of their day and age because her husband reee’d about it. She also put a stop to primeval longevity and converted her nation to the golden order as a sort of replacement for it. The bitch.
are you dumb motherfuckers really angry that the moon is woman or just pretending to be retarded and angry the moon is woman
>>729072460Wrong. Depends on the culture. You’ve been brain rotted by pagan memes. I bet you think witchcraft is le female too, kek.
>>729072502The moon being a GIRL is WOKE DEI CRAP! Asmongold said so!
>>729072502The entire game is feminist anon. The most skillful warrior? A woman. The most brilliant wizard? A woman. Looking at the moon? Totally more brainy than staring at the dumg stars totalltzn
>>729071848Selene, you faggot.
>>729072283>It’s still an insufferable feminist gameI think you should kill yourself
Luna is a woman's name.
According to the lore of Elden Ring no boys reached 70 Intelligence. Only girls. L M A O
>>729071684Fantasy, how does it work?!
>>729072549>>729072587samefagging
>>729072502You've been here long enough to know it's both, but it's still surprising when people genuinely freak out
>>729072569Literally how the fuck is he even wrong? Have you even played this game? Jesus Christ you faggots are in denial. Japan is just as woke as America.
>>729071914>>729071956In Japan the Sun is female and the Moon is male.
>>729072587I don’t think reaching 70 intelligence guarantees you will find the moon. Even with 99 intelligence it would probably just ignore you.
>redditors unironically think anyone says woke
>>729072681I haven't seen the sun or moon have genitals tho, or are they hidden on the dark side
>>729072681Already mentioned. Keep up.
Azur and Lusat mog Rennala as their brains are literally made of the stuff of purest rawest magicBut of course you fags always go “they are dead bro they cannot even move bro” when the lore implies the exact opposite
>>729072549>>729072587How do people end up like this? Genuine question.
>>729071684It sounds like a joke but the moon’s phases were associated with women’s periods.
>>729072776They are suffering a fate worse than death bro.
>>729072818We know that already, and yet, in a lot of cultures around the world the moon was STILL a fucking DOOD.
>>729072801Just say you love that strong womyn feminist Wiccan moon gurl power anon
>>729072776Theyre totally thriving, living their best lives...You will never hit 70 int and cast moon or darkmoon spell with these tardtakes
>>729072987Struck a nerve. have sex and you won't be so bitter
>>729072990>there is an entire race made entirely out of living glintstone >the primeval people explicitly one step above them are totally an exception tho Ok retard; their concept artwork even has them standing
>>729071573Rennala discovered that the moon is an outer god, Azur and Lusat did not, go seethe for the umpteenth time somewhere else. We know how these threads of yours go.
I’m not Ranni’s stepdadI’m her dad who stepped up
>>729073082Rennala still has a smooth fleshy brain. She still needs to use a stick to cast magic. Azur and Lusat transcend the human form and ditched their staves entirely. Rennala can only turn into a rock for a few seconds at most, while Azur and Lusat straight up embrace rocke. :^)Cope more Carian cunt.
>>729073143You Raya Lucarians are funny
>>729071939>in the westNo western god is like this.
>>729071851Yep. Muscles and sunlight are masculine. Darkness and witchy shit are feminine. Them's the breaks.
>>729073051>Their concept art depicts something that is never depicted in game. >They're as retarded as the crystallians, and can't get the sucky anymore. kek. again, you're not hitting that 70 int.
>>729071573Elden Ring is using a lot of takes straight from Alchemy which has a lot of Freemason stuff in it. So while all these Anons keep arguing until their faces go blue, amongst the masons the Moon is typically used to mean a woman in their little club. Or feminine sexual energies if you want to sound like a posh shit head about it.Stars are Ayys fyi.
>>729071573Magic is explicitly feminine, idiot. So is the moon.
>>729073143Azur and Lusat are being devoured by a hostile fungus life form that simultaneously is a crystal. That's why Smarag and Adula are covered in Glintstones from eating sorcerers and Hierodas mages have Glintstones growing from their hands. Rennala is not trying to turn herself into a rock, she's manifesting a moon that counters projectiles, debuffs foes, and blows people up.
>>729073289Azur and Lusat have health pools then the fucking Elden Beast in the game files, and yet you cannot hurt or kill them — very much the same way you cannot kill the Greatjar. They are BEYOND the player Tarnished. Same way Ranni is. Do note that you can even kill “unkillable” characters like the turtle pope. But still not these guys.
>>729073294Listen blud, when you're on /pol/ as much as the reddit-spacer sperging in this thread, you cannot accept these things and must achieve """victory""" through complaining on a basket-weaving forum.
>>729073375>Game filesStopped reading right there. At this rate, you won't even be able to cast Flintstone pebble.
>>729073375Sellen sure kills them just fine, though their "helmets" describe Azur and Lusat themselves as basically already having been killed before then.
>>729073294the moon is always female, because men claimed the important body (the sun) which leaves girls the less important, but secretly very important, body.plus the periods thing
>>729073371They’ve opened their third eye, anon. You just wouldn’t understand.
>>729071573>la lune>la magieoui
>>729073482If you paid attention to the quest, she takes their glintstone essences the same way you take hers. This is how they pass along themselves into new forms. Again, you’d know this if you paid attention. Anyway. It’s unknown what she did with them after. You can argue she shoved herself in with a graven mass, but that doesn’t really add up when she’s still experimenting and she’s only using sorcerers she disapproves of.
The moon is illuminated by the sun's light, it is entirely reflective and therefore inherently feminine.
>>729072681Also in proto-Slavic religion
>>729073375Azur and Lusat have higher* health pools than* the fucking Elden Beast in the game filesApparently it’s only Lusat that has higher health. Azur has slightly less / just under the Elden Beast
>>729071684Women's menstrual cycles are related.There's cultures where the moon is masculine supposedly. It's not that deep imo.
>>729073537>Turn yourself into a rock that can't move or get the sucky so you can be a hobby ghostLiterally the same as this divine transformation
A 35 int spell can do what the moons do but better
The Greeks and Romans represented the moon as female so we tend to go off that.>Magic is female!No, you're coming up with things in your head to get upset about. Magic is meant to be some weird and mysterious energy.
>>729073713>can’t moveThey wouldn’t have been able to get to where they are, had they been unable to move. Glintstone is a living thing, and it is flexible enough to function as a race of crystallian beings. It grows like a plant.
>>729072520>I bet you think witches are femalewhen the /v/tard becomes so contrarian he starts espousing gender critical ideology
>>729071684Moon here, my pronounce is she/her
>>729073734>Magic is meant to be some weird and mysterious energy.Women are weird and mysterious and make no sense
>>729073713>>>Turn yourself into a rock that can't move or get the sucky so you can be a hobby ghostdont google philosophers stone
>>729073789In some countries the majority of those accused of being witches were men. Especially in east Europe.
>>729071573Can you get magic pregnant? No? That's what I thought.
>>729073640You're conflating dawn with the sun. They saw the dawn as a woman but the sun was Dazhbog. They also had a feminine moon goddess.
The Moon reflects the Sun, Ranni sacrificed Godwyn as the sun so she could be an 'independent moon' which is why she's a doll etc etc.To compare, her Mother relied on a man (Marika as Radagon) and after the male left, her mother went into depressionit's all very obvious if you actually played the game
>>729073537Considering that the fungus crystals killed them and Sellen proceeded to kill the "unharmable" leftovers, clearly not.
>>729073771Crystallians are retarded beasts. I don't see how that helps. Furthermore, the loss of movement occurs over time, ding-dong. They were able to move at some point. Now, they can move no longer and never get the sucky again
>>729073926>Crystallians are retarded beasts. I don't see how that helpsThey’re meditating when you find them.
>>729073734>No, you're coming up with things in your head to get upset about. Magic is meant to be some weird and mysterious energy.Magic is female, Odin was a bitch for learning seidhr, a woman's craft. Magic is weaving and weaving is womans work, spiders weave and women are spiders.
>>729073957>Mediating makes you a retarded savage that attacks everything on site. Truly enlightened
>>729073921Those were her mentors. Sorcerers take each others souls / primal gems. It’s an intimate process and they probably let her do it. She let you do it with her. Why not them? The sorcerer isn’t even their brain.
>>729073589No, dumbass, Sellen expresses an interest in taking their crystal selves, not just their Primal Glintstones. We have no reason to believe that Azur and Lusat even personally used Primal Glintstones to boot, they might be in their original bodies. Sellen killed what was left of them, took most of their bodies for her Graven Mass experiments (that ultimately turn her into one as a result of her mad science), and the Tarnished can look the fragments and robes of Azur and Lusat that Sellen left behind.
>>729073926>Crystallians are retarded beasts. I>Literally in game described as cogitating.>>729074003Maybe they just divined that you deserved to die?
>>729073989>All this anger because anon can't have sexnta, but obvious as hell
>>729073989You’re an idiot. Odin was the original min-maxer. He became the greatest wizard of all even when the magic system in question favored women (actually only one type of magic favored women). That’s pretty funny. >>729074003Everyone in this game is immediately violent lol.
>>729074054spiders are magic.
>>729071573Are YOU retarded? Who upholds wiccanism the most nowadays?
>>729074038They should have divined that there was no way to kill someone with grace and they're weak as fuck and get obliterated by my mace. Seems low IQ for all that time spent sitting
>>729074080>Odin was the original min-maxer. He became the greatest wizard of all even when the magic system in question favored women (actually only one type of magic favored women). That’s pretty funny.Yes? Doesn't change the fact that magic is womans work. The majority of things women do men can do better, that doesn't not make it feminine.
GUYS...
>>729073771Lusat got dumped on a pile of Glintstone in a mine, he obviously didn't choose to be there. The Primeval Current sorcerers clearly aren't as mobile and healthy as the Crystalians.
>>729072520even in european pagan shit like with nordic tradition gods like odin were considered outliers and strangely feminine due to his affinity with magic (a womans field)
>>729074080?Except for every NPC. The fuck? Even the goddamn jellyfish know better.
>>729071684it's not that deep, unc
>>729071684The moon is considered feminine in a lot of cultures where as the sun is considered masculine.La LunaEl Sol
>>729074026>No, dumbass, Sellen expresses an interest in taking their crystal selves, not just their Primal GlintstonesYou didn’t play this game. She only took their primal glintstones. Nothing else. She didn’t even take their heads - which she usually does for making graven masses. >We have no reason to believe that Azur and Lusat even personally used Primal Glintstones to bootThey’re primeval sorcerers and are old as hell. We know the ancient astrologers did this, and we doubly know that Azur is a surviving ancient astrologer. The sorcerers of Raya Lucaria even do it. It’s not an uncommon practice in present day. The text on their armor tells you this explicitly. Glintstone sorcerers lead “transient lives” and don’t care for the body much. >Sellen killed what was left of themShe “killed” them the same way you “killed” Sellen at Witchbane Ruins. So not at all. >took most of their bodies for her Graven Mass experimentsInconclusive. She only used sorcerers she disapproved of in her experiments, which she clearly hasn’t completed in full. She would not shove herself in with a bunch of sorcerers who went against her. Her magnum opus would have been a lot nicer than that.
>>729074113real witches?
properly fucking my wife under the moon and stars for the universe to see
>>729071848Artemis/Diana/Devanna, Lune/Selene, Kaguya-hime (sort of), Chang'e, the Aztec Coyolxāuhqui, the Finnish Kuutar
>>729074218the jellyfish are dead kids
>>729074375Still smarter than crystallians
>>729074008>Sorcerers take each others souls / primal gems.Sorcerers do no such thing in Elden Ring, they instead try to drug and enslave each other with Starlight Shards potions, as indicated by Seluvis' basement. Sellen only asks the Tarnished to get her Primal Glintstone because Sellen knows that Jerren is going to attack her real body and she's out of options. Sellen was also expelled precisely for gruesome, mad science that vicimized people, so the Primal Glintstone is likely related to that, as opposed to something Azur and Lusat also had. A sorcerer in their own, original body obviously relies upon their own brain, and the brain of any body they're in is also likely vital as well. Plus, the fungal Glintstone could try devouring a Primal Glintstone as well -- Sellen's clearly not in a good state once she's a Graven Mass.
>>729074162>Lusat got dumped on a pile of Glintstone in a mine, he obviously didn't choose to be thereWrong. We know from Onze that these people retreat to caves. This is a theme seen in Sekiro as well. The primeval sorcerers are quite clearly based on the Sokushinbutsu, or living Buddhas, or corpse sages. Transcendent beings.>The Primeval Current sorcerers clearly aren't as mobile and healthy as the Crystalians.They’re fine, anon. Azur is levitating in meditation the same way the Crystalians are. He gives you his spell. Sellen even calls him a good judge of character. He isn’t brain dead and he can in fact move.
>>729074394>Sorcerers do no such thing in Elden RingYou didn’t play this game.
>>729071684>irlblame the romans or the greeks
>>729074412>Early modern russia was feminine and gayGives context to the success of the revolution
Moon
>>729074394>Sellen was also expelled precisely for gruesome, mad science that vicimized people, so the Primal Glintstone is likely related to thatNo. She was expelled for explicit mad science experiments in the form of the grave mass experiments. Glintstone crystallization is a cancerous process that just happens over time. Slicing open your heart and shoving glintstone into it is just a more insane way to embrace this form of star born cancer.
>>729074394All glintstone is “fungal”, and grows like a living silicon plant. Primal glintstone just implies it’s from the source. Primal is primeval.
>>729072012They also have the Sky as female and Earth as male. Egypt was utterly ass backwards compared to every other culture.
>>729073771It doesn't say that the Crystalians are made of glintstone, just nonspecific crystal and they aren't even "natural" beings to begin with, they're in the same vein as the silver tears/albinauricsThe closest they come to mentioning glintstone is mentioning the primeval current in a one-off>The inscrutable Crystalians have but one clear purpose; to safeguard their crystals unto the end.>One theory posits that they yearn for the return of their creator who will carve for them new brethren.>The Crystalian's faint cognition is know as the "wisdom of stone." This staff can only be weilded by those of intellect high enough to grasp such wisdom.>The Crystalians are inorganic beings, yet they live. They cleave close to the ideals of the primeval current, and as such, they are revered guests of the sorcerers.
>>729074394Idiot.Primal glintstone blade:> An old glintstone blade that has been stained with blood.> Reduces FP consumption of sorceries and incantations at the cost of maximum HP.> The old sorcerers would slice open their hearts with these blades to imbue a primal glintstone with their soul, and thus did they die.Sellen’s primal glintstone:> Glintstone from within the sorceress Sellen's body.> Seemingly half-alive, blood vessels are visible within.> In essence, a primal glintstone is a sorcerer's soul.> If transplanted into a compatible new body after their original body dies, the sorcerer will rise again.>"My apprentice, do you think it distasteful?"Cuckoo gear:> Armor worn by Raya Lucaria Academy soldiers.> The surcoat depicts twinned cuckoos peering into a flourishing mass of glintstone. > To a glintstone sorcerer, the body is a transient thing. The Cuckoo alone knows its insignificance, yet watches over it all the same.Sorcerer gear:> Robe worn by Raya Lucaria's magic scholars. > Those who dedicate themselves to the study of glintstones formed from starry amber receive this modest yet elegant deep blue garb along with their vows of virtue and austerity. > But with extended life, one is apt to forget old vows.It goes hand-in-hand with the Cuckoo metaphor. Sorcerers are imposters. They are parasites. Radagon later repurposed this in the form of the cuckoo’s golden egg, with the academy as its/his nest.
>>729074705To add to my own post, Crystalian spells are also classified separately from the glintstone spells, implying that they are indeed different enough to warrant a separate classification
>>729074705Jesus Christ you fucking idiot. Azur and Lusat are LITERALLY one step above the Crystalians / “the wisdom of stone”. — Staff of the primeval glintstone sorcerer Azur. —Only those who have glimpsed what lies beyond the wisdom of stone may wield it.Azur is LITERALLY floating in meditation the way Crystalians are. Crystalians are also guarding glintstone groves.You’re the same type of idiot who thinks the dark and black moons are different moons because dark and black are different words despite carrying the same goddamned essence.You can’t into words or implications or nuance or anything.
Among the heavenly bodies the primary object of Slavic veneration was the moon. The name of the moon is of masculine gender in Slavic languages (Russian mesyats; compare Latin mensis). The word for sun (Russian solntse), on the other hand, is a neuter diminutive that may derive from an ancient feminine form. In many Russian folk songs a verb having the sun as its subject is put in the feminine form, and the sun is almost always thought of as a bride or a maiden.It is to the moon that recourse is had to obtain abundance and health. The moon is saluted with round dances and is prayed to for the health of children. During lunar eclipses, weapons are discharged at the monsters who are said to be devouring the moon, and weeping and wailing express the sharing of the moon’s sufferings. In Serbia the people have always envisioned the moon as a human being. Such appellations as father and grandfather are customarily applied to the moon in Russian, Serbo-Croatian, and Bulgarian folk songs. At Risano (modern-day Risan, Yugos.) in the days of the 19th-century writer Vuk Karadžić—the father of modern Serbian literature—it was said of a baby four months old that he had four grandfathers. In Bulgaria the old people teach small children to call the moon Dedo Bozhe, Dedo Gospod (“Uncle God, Uncle Lord”). Ukrainian peasants in the Carpathians openly affirm that the moon is their god and that no other being could fulfill such functions if they were to be deprived of the moon. In two Great Russian supplications the sickle moon is invoked as “Adam”—the final phase of a fully developed moon worship in which the moon becomes the progenitor of the human family.
>>729074287Sellen notes Azur and Lusat's crystal bodies in particular, not a Primal Glintstone. Azur is not a surviving ancient astrologer, the Sword of Night and Flame's creators discovered a similar art in parallel, thus why Rennala likely knew to ban it ASAP. Raya Lucaria's sorcerers have only recently turned against Rennala's mandates, and considering the different ways Azur and Lusat were exiled compared to Sellen, she was likely the only one with a Primal Glintstone that would make it easy for her to basically steal someone's identity and try circumventing the exile. Sending Azur and Lusat away wouldn't mean shit if they could transplant into some schmuck's body and walk right back into Liurnia.Sellen at the Witchbane Ruins is in a different scenario, especially since Jerren still has to kill that body. Sellen's revivals were also tied to a sorcery that persisted as long as Radahn kept space frozen, not anything related to Azur and Lusat.If Sellen respects both Azur and Lusat, yet nonetheless uses Olivinus Conspectus students (Lusat's school) for her Graven Masses, she's clearly not actually sparing anyone. Sellen didn't add herself into a Graven Mass as part of a master plan, it was a result of her reckless mad science destroying her.Your bitch ass only keeps making these threads because you're pissed off that Rennala's sorcery has a higher INT requirement than Azur and Lusat's sorceries. You're a pansy scared that a fictional woman might be better at something than a fictional man. You haven't even explored enough of the game to discover that Ranni is truly invincible and can kill the Tarnished in one hit, which you'd no doubt be whining about incessantly too if you bothered to actually investigate things.
>>729074897If they were a parasitic fungus, why would they need a creator to carve them new brethren?
>>729074705They’re clearly glintstone if they’re sitting in glintstone and protecting glintstone and are associated with the primeval current like the primeval sorcerers. Glintstone is associated with crystal period, sort of like how crystals are associated with souls, period, in Dark Souls, and glintstone (or stardust really) is Elden Ring’s version of souls (runes are a psyop).
>>729074958>Sellen notes Azur and Lusat's crystal bodies in particular, not a Primal GlintstoneSee. I’m not going to read any further if you aren’t going to do the bare minimum of critical thinking.
>>729074958>Azur is not a surviving ancient astrologer, the Sword of Night and Flame's creators discovered a similar art in parallelUnlikely. The original color for Comet Azur was colored like the other two primeval spells, or night sorceries, and they didn’t bother keeping the color in the sword on release. Meaning it’s very likely Azur’s. They kept every other variant in the game in the form of night sorceries. It’s pretty clear that what Azur saw was only glimpsed once.
Female
>>729071848>>729072086130+ iq posts that absolutely BTFO'd the retards of /v/they are probably begging their favorite e-celeb to make a video essay about this so they know what to respond with the next time it comes up
>>729074958Stop being a fucking idiot and refer back to >>729074783 But you will just double down like usual so… (I’m serious, you will just vomit out another wall of blatantly wrong text/lore)
>>729071573I had dream about this retard for some reason.
>>729074113White girls and Mexican chicks.
>>729075178did you fuck her
>>729074958If you were actually intelligent, you’d note that Azur and Lusat were probably already crystal by the time they were “evicted”, since they’re based on this concept in Asia of worshiping and decorating and venerating long dead corpses who died a long fucking time ago.
Magic is female, that's why, in the good times, we burned witches.
>>729074958>If Sellen respects both Azur and Lusat, yet nonetheless uses Olivinus Conspectus students (Lusat's school) for her Graven Masses, she's clearly not actually sparing anyoneShe respects Lusat, not the Olvinus that betrayed his primeval legacy. The Karolos didn’t betray Azur’s legacy. The process of creating a graven mass clearly is an artificial one. Someone would have had to put her head on the thing. It wasn’t her.
>>729075178I normally start detoxing when I start having vidya dreams
>>729074958>You haven't even explored enough of the game to discover that Ranni is truly invincible and can kill the Tarnished in one hitAnd you can’t actually kill Azur and Lusat. What’s your point? Are you threatened thar Rennala might not actually be the best? She didn’t even actually start a new school of magic. The lazuli conspectus is of pre existing Carian philosophy. Rennala couldn’t deconstruct her moon sorcery the way Azur and Lusat deconstructed theirs.
>>729075327The procedure could have also failed, backfiring on Sellen when she (presumably) tried to put Renalla into a Graven Mage during her coupMaybe due to Ranni's protection spell
>>729074958Considering sorcery is “the study of the stars and the life therein”, and the moon is seen to have a presence in From games (there’s even a boss in Bloodborne named after it), it actually makes sense that the moon would have higher intelligence then a giant ass nebula. This is why the nebula beam takes up three slots while the moon takes up 10 more intelligence. But my instinct is that Azur/Lusat have the higher intelligence scores inherently, being made of the stuff of magic itself. The moon also represents the self, or the reflection of the self, which is represented in the twin moons representing Rennala and her sister’s closeness.
>>729074396Onze is a demi-human swordsman, not a sorcerer of Raya Lucaria, and he is trying to ensure absolutely no one follows his path (which notably leads to one's own ruin). In contrast, what's left of Lusat actively hands you a scroll for Stars of Ruin, so Lusat clearly did not put himself on top of a pile of Glintstones in a tiny cave sealed behind an academy barrier in a mine. Azur (if he's even levitating) is leaning to one side and his legs (or what's left of them) fail to reach any proper meditative position. Azur has failed to reach any state the Crystalians have, and the Crystalians themselves have clear weaknesses and limitations. Sellen refers to Azur before he was being devoured by a crystal, and considering that Azur failed to realize that Sellen is a malicious mad scientist, he's clearly not actually a good judge of character. Sellen is just indirectly praising herself.>>729074526The Primal Glintstone sorceries require a victim to steal the body of, you fool, that counts as gruesome, mad science that victimizes people. The Graven Masses are the biggest example of her crimes, but not the only example. People usually only start getting devoured by Glintstone if they go too far with the esoteric elements, such as Primeval Current and Hierodas sorcerers, or if they literally eat the stuff (the dragons).>>729074582The Primal Glintstone relates to a specific kind of blasphemous sorcery. >>729074783The Primal Glintstone Blade describes a blasphemous, old art that clearly involves the exact kind of nefarious actions that got Sellen exiled. She's not even well-liked at the academy, because if you summon her for the Red Wolf fight, the other mages will attack her. Even after the academy has recently rebelled against Rennala and her rules, they know that Sellen clearly won't play ball with even their style of renewed interest in occult sorceries. She's not interested in a doll body or some jar-based new form, she's stealing people's bodies.
>>729074958ALL sorcerers have primal glintstones according to the text in game
>>729071684The lunar is passive, reflective, inert.The solar is penetrative, animating, overwhelming
>>729075626>Onze is a demi-human swordsman, not a sorcerer of Raya LucariaYou’re still missing the point. The theme is clear. They retreat to caves, or just a form of isolation. This is consistent with the hermit village as well. Why are you trying so hard?>Azur has failed to reach any state the Crystalians haveSee. This is why you’re losing credibility. The game explicitly tells you he reached beyond them.Stop making a fool of yourself. You’re some gay fag or a woman upset that his fantasy feminist wet dream isn’t actually all what it’s chalked out to be in lore.
>>729075626>The Primal Glintstone Blade describes a blasphemous, old art that clearly involves the exact kind of nefarious actions that got Sellen exiledNo. You’re still not following the game. She got expelled for graven mass experiments. The practice of shoving glintstone into your chest to live forever is an entirely older and more ancient process that seemingly every sorcery in present is doing. Rennala likely banned it though.
>>729075626>The Primal Glintstone sorceries require a victim to steal the body of, you foolAlready mentioned, you tool. >that counts as gruesome, mad science that victimizes peopleIt’s not the mad science that got her banned. It was the mad science working on it. She was effectively taking the primal glintstones of sorcerers and shoving them together.
>>729075698>inert>has phasesbrainlet take
>>729075626>Sellen refers to Azur before he was being devoured by a crystalNope. She clearly knows you’ve just met him. You’re an idiotic Carian simp who is misremembering the game to appease his own biases. You can’t even read the text on items.
>>729075934it's a principle of western alchemy and occultism going back to the ptolemaic era
>>729075626>People usually only start getting devoured by Glintstone if they go too far with the esoteric elements, such as Primeval Current and Hierodas sorcerers, or if they literally eat the stuff (the dragons).Wrong. Just mere contact is enough. The miners of glintstone are becoming crystal over time and the plants themselves have taken on its qualities.Glintstone in general is a cancer.
>>729071914Sun deities are usually male. Moon deities, such as Selene and Artemis, are typically female in western mythos. This is actually so engrained in our culture, those old outhouses you see in cartoons that have the moon carved into the door were actually gendered. Rural Americans would carve a sun for men and a moon for women. Magic is also distinctly feminine. There were, of course, male priests, but it's never been seen as a particularly masculine pursuit. In a lot of ways, you could argue it's associated with a feminine frustration with not being able to influence things directly with tangible power. You supplicate to greater powers to help you and yours.
>>729075626>Even after the academy has recently rebelled against Rennala and her rules, they know that Sellen clearly won't play ball with even their style of renewed interest in occult sorceriesGraven mages are a thing. She isn’t the only one. It’s likely she had a following. The pre-release version of the game even confirms this. The hidden cave letter was originally sent to Sellen by another graven mage trying to hunt down Lusat.She also made enemies and it’s entirely possible other sorcerers turned her into a graven mass. There’s a graven mass guarding her prison. This implies even graven masses hate her.
>>729076140Again, the foremost gods of magic and science in the west was a male moon god. Magic has never been feminine once you realize that men are the ones poking at the mysteries. Not women.
>>729071684Because it is the secondary celestial body to the Sun and womens’ sexual cycle matches that of the moon’s cycles
>>729072818Why does it seem like a joke? You guys are just astrologically prude
>>729076220We’re talking about witches here folks
>>729071573You can have feminine energy while still being a man. Men being in touch with their emotions, the night, and magic are related.
>>729075626>The Graven Masses are the biggest example of her crimes, but not the only exampleIt’s by far her biggest crime. The game is trying to make her scientific endeavours look rather indistinguishable from the sick rituals or a psychopathic serial killer who is possibly a schizophrenic attributing personalities to rocks (whether Azur and Lusat are fine or not is a hilarious ambiguity in this game - Sellen’s quest is closer to comedy horror than plain horror). This ambiguity is also extended to the shared cuckoo symbolism of Radagon and the primeval sorcerers before him? Who was the true parasite or bad influence on the academy? Or rather, who was the more preferable parasite?
>4chan gets sexually possessive of the act of casting spells because a game features a witch cult You people are so fucking feeble and easily controlled
doll sexhttps://files.catbox.moe/uak5dx.png
>>729071684>Leo / LunaGee.
>>729076347Wisdom is feminine. The word wise is female. The word wisest leans closer to masculinity, as it implies a sort of competition. This is why Ahura Mazda means Lord of Wisdom. Lord is a masculine word in Zoroastrianism.
>>729076220In the west (aka Greece and Rome) Magic was associated with the initiatory occult and was overwhelmingly female (Isis, Hathor in Egypt, Demeter, Hecate, Persephone, Selene in the 'west' aka Greece, the rites of which Romans copied and continued 1 to 1 until Christianity)The Male dieties are generally associated with topics of immortality, freedom and 'associative revolution' whether the Orphic Zeus/Phanes/Dionysus, or Osiris and Horus, or the Ra cycle (which is both M and F)Thoth himself eventually became a representation of the ideal 'Egyptian person/priest/rebis' or in other words, (You), which is why Hermes Trismegistus is equated with Thoth
>>729075626>She's not even well-liked at the academy, because if you summon her for the Red Wolf fight, the other mages will attack her. Game mechanics. It’s also clearly the most ignored summon in the game. I bet Miyazaki forgot about it. You have to go through hoops to find it. It’s not even worth it. I also find it weird how the Lazuli and the Karolos aren’t at each others asses in the hallways. The text on the glintstone crowns in the pre-release imply that the glintstone crowns are a new thing based on primeval current theory (called a resurgence in the pre-release), but Carian sorcerers are still seen to use them fern at Caria manor. This might imply that even primeval current enthusiasts are stubbornly loyal to the Carians even despite resorting to magic they hated.
>>72907637190% of the posts in this thread were made by an ayy lmao witch
>>729076220>Circe>Hecate
>>729071573>Moon is cheese>Moon is female>Cheese is female
>>729076514>In the west (aka Greece and Rome) Magic was associated with the initiatory occult and was overwhelmingly female (Isis, Hathor in Egypt, Demeter, Hecate, Persephone, Selene in the 'west' aka Greece, the rites of which Romans copied and continued 1 to 1 until Christianity)Nope. Thoth/Hermes took over and had a more profound impact on magic, mystery schools, and the development of science, and eventually displaced Isis and Hecate completely. Hermeticism is THE wizardly tradition. No other occult tradition was as impactful. Except for perhaps Gnosticism.
>>729076669They were villainous witches and lesser deities of magic. Hermes was above Hecate in wizardly matters. He was outright associated with Thoth.
>>729076743There is absolutely nothing in Hermeticism whatsoever that insists that magic is male only
>>729075024I see you've run out of arguments. Sellen wants Azur and Lusat's modified bodies for her experiments, she's not trying to slot her fellow Primeval Current sorcerers into new bodies to help them resume their work.>>729075103Or the Primeval Current isn't actually one uniform color, considering the different colors of the Glintstones devouring Azur and Lusat. The broader school of Night Sorceries is associated with Sellia and involves stealth, not taboos, to boot. Comet also would have never been the "greatest of the Karolos Conspectus's sorceries" if Azur had invented Comet Azur before it. Comet Azur was clearly his latest spell and he was expelled before it could become part of the curriculum.>>729075146There's already a reply to that, but to sum up the gist, Onze is actively hiding so people don't ruin themselves like him while Lusat is still giving out spells and is jailed behind an academy barrier. Their circumstances are not the same. The academy has only recently turned against Liurnia's rules and standards, but even then they hate Sellen, and modern Liurnian sorcery seems more interested in a doll body or designing some kind of new one using jar research.>>729075248How would Azur and Lusat even go to Gelmir and Sellia if they were already immobile crystals? Only their modern states relate to the mummified monks concept, hence why Sellen makes an estimated guess at what Lusat has since become.>>729075327We have no reason to believe that the Karolos stuck to "Azur's legacy" while the Olivinus did not. If a Graven Mass can have someone slotted into it, and Glintstone can also consume beings (ex: Smarag), then Sellen's own experiment could have indeed consumed her.>>729075467Obviously people can kill Azur and Lusat, because that's what Sellen did. Hitting an unresponsive brick forever to get armor likely wouldn't be fun, hence why their bodies are designated more like plot objects. Also, Lazuli is a separate Carian field, they have two.
>>729076220You keep saying this retarded shit without examples, while people have given you plenty of examples, and the entire time I'm reading your posts, I've just got "My Selene" stuck in my head by Sonata Arctica. Nocturnal poetry:Dressed in the whitest silver you'd smile at meEvery night I wait for my sweet SeleneBut still...Solitude's upon my skinA Life that's bound by the chains of realityWould you let me be your Endymion?I wouldBathe in your moonlight and slumber in peaceEnchanted by your kiss in forever sleepI guess he forgot the most important part of the song.>No homo tho, bro.
>>729076514>Thoth himself eventually became a representation of the ideal 'Egyptian person/priest/rebis' or in other words, (You), which is why Hermes Trismegistus is equated with ThothPeople had assumed he was three people interpreted as one. It wasn’t the only interpretation.
>>729076795Magic is masculine because magic is about poking at the mysteries of nature. Women suck at that. Sorry. Hermeticism was masculine because science is masculine. Wizardry is masculine.
>>729076787Thoth was really a scribe, and he is associated with magic because the Egyptians believed that the act of writing was like casting spells. It's why their tombs have writing all over the walls. To them it was like protective charms.
this is like asking why tables in spanish are feminine
>>729076743>HermeticismYour history is wrong. What we nowadays refer to hermeticism started in the Renaissance and was accepted as part of the Catholic Churches (not Orthodox) attempt at aggrandizing Christianity by restoring the glory of Rome/Greece during the shithole Medival period. It was accepted because it was sanitized into a Christian friendly format wherein everything else in was too Polytheistic for Christian dogma.Everything else you mentioned was done by 'everyone' and had no tribal designations, but the dominant Mystery and initiatory cult was in both Greece and Rome (including for Emperors) the Eleusynian mysteries>>729076847Not what I'm referring to, think of it as a Metal Gear Solid 2 situation (before MGS4) the idea of Thoth was to embody the ideal individual for (You) the reader to be. Hermes Trismegistus the guy is the most famous example of it.
>>729076814The examples are the entire last two millennium anon. Two of the three Hermeric disciplines still survive in present day. https://spacedoutscientist.com/2015/06/01/hermeticism-the-nexus-between-science-philosophy-and-spirit/I find it bizarre that you don’t know this. The very wizard stereotype is soaked in Hermetic symbolism and imagery.
>>729071601fpbp
>>729071684alistair crowley wrote the moonchild and the book of revelations talked of the whore of babylon is the goddess standing on top of the moon cloaked in the sun
>>729076897Yes. Writing was associated with magic and Hermes was associated with witting.
>>729076896Science and magic are the opposite of each other. Science is masculine, rational, materialist. Magic is feminine, chaotic, spiritual. Priests are not-masculine, they are in touch with spiritual matters.
Sex with rope-jointed dolls.
In Germanic languages the sun is always feminine (e.g. die Sonne in German) and the moon is always masculine, the mythological personifications followed this. So masculine sun / feminine moon isn't inherently western at all. Tolkien even mentions this in LotR with the hobbits referring to the sun as "she". So many retards confidently spouting wrong info https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Reconstruction:Proto-Germanic/sunn%C7%AD
>>729076787>Hermes was above Hecate in wizardly matterswrong he was the scribe who helped in the Eleusynian mysteries and anything involving crossing the liminal threshhold of life and death and the association you mention with Thoth was because Thoth was the 'scribe of the underworld' and was related to the same topic. Hermes Trismegistus himself was just a guy who you could equate with a Greek Philosopher, but Greeks themselves did this without explicitly mentioning magic (Pythagoras, Plato and Aristotle are all more magical than all fantasy characters from the past century)
>>729076973>Your history is wrong. What we nowadays refer to hermeticism started in the RenaissanceStopped reading here. You’re about as retarded as the people who say alchemy wasn’t a matter of chemistry. “It was spiritual not chemical!”. They thought the spiritual was chemical/material and could be transmute the same way other substances could be transmuted. This is extremely fucking old, and the synchronized union of Thoth and Hermes started in the Hellenistic period. I don’t appreciate your revisionism, but I do acknowledge that Hermeticism became a much different or more refined beast during the Renaissance, the same way the Jews became a more refined and intelligent people after breeding with Europeans for a thousand years.
>>729076973What you’re referring to is the Prisca Theologia and it was a revival of Hermetic thought as proof of the veracity of God.
>>729077154>wrongNo? Hecate was more traditional hocus pocus while Hermes/Thoth were associated with higher learning. Wizardry. I don’t know why you morons even argue with me when you’re just going to vomit out walls of wrong text.
>>729076997>the very wizard stereotype>she's wearing a fucking witch hat I think you're just mad that people think your stuff is girly. The thing is that your supposition on magic isn't even my biggest gripe. It's the fucking moon thing. You keep referring to Hermeticism, and the Greeks personified her as Selene.
>>729077093this is truehttps://files.catbox.moe/lmxxm7.gif
>>729077070Magic and science have been inseparable since forever and you’re kind of retarded for not having the ability to see that. Like, wizardry and machines have always been associated.
>>729077351You don't know what magic is, scrub.
>>729077397Do you? It’s literally just chemistry in the brain.
>>729077154>Hermes Trismegistus himself was just a guy who you could equate with a Greek Philosopher, but Greeks themselves did this without explicitly mentioning magic (Pythagoras, Plato and Aristotle are all more magical than all fantasy characters from the past century)The capital-w wizard won’t see himself as such. Same as how God won’t see himself as a god the same way humans do. God’s miracles aren’t miraculous to himself. Tolkiens elves don’t see themselves as magical beings. Gandalf isn’t a wizard back home in Valinor. The machines of Mordor are seen as sorcery. The elves look to the wizards the same way humans and hobbits look to the elves. The Greeks used to see the Zoroastrian magi as wicked magicians, but later they saw them as legitimate repositories of information — and this is why the Greeks later associated magic with higher learning (and to anyone who wasn’t an idiot, superstition and hocus pocus was relegated to psychology).
>>729077165Anon, Alchemy existed before niggas called themselves Hermeticists - Hermes Trismegistus was a guy the Reneissance blew up but was not the guy who invented all that shitAlchemy did not have a predefined goal back then and the people of the time were using it do both the act of 'Changing things into that of more value' as well as 'making things transcendentally eternal' so that nothing is lost in the evolution. The reason there's even a distinction historically between the 2 is because it was practical to change things while no one worried about the transcendental after the industrial revolution. But no one you can name in Greece or most of the Roman Empire would be calling themselves Hermetic>>729077227>revival of Hermetic thoughtWasnt refered to as such back then, such a notion was farbiracted pseudo history
>>729077154Greek philosophers were one of the hallmarks, or starters, of the wizard stereotype, you realize. This is seen in Elden Ring with all those stone heads. The ancients saw these figures as sages (the sage is often synonymous with the wizard), and you had occult writers using pen-names or pseudonyms pretending to be these people. Pseudo-Zoroaster, Pseudo-Ostanes, Pseudo-Plato, Pseudo-Pythagoras. They were trying to be and embody these past sages. This is exactly what glintstone sorcerers are doing when they don the faces of past sages.
>>729077647Who the fuck do you think you’re educating? The earliest known chemists were an Egyptian and Mesopotamian priests who made incense, made dyes, and embalmed the dead. Alchemy was a precursor to a unifying attempt.
>>729077281>>No? Hecate was more traditional hocus pocus while Hermes/Thoth were associated with higher learning. Wizardry. I don’t know why you morons even argue with me when you’re just going to vomit out walls of wrong text.Wrong, the EM were something Roman Emperors and Greek Philosophers like Plato and Socrates were initiated in and was used to learn about Immortality and Metempsychosis and shit. Hermes rediscovery happened during Christian timesWhat you are confounding is the modern 'girls like witches and hecate, boys like hermeticism and schizoposting and history' pattern
>>729073375You're so retarded holy shit
>>729077647>But no one you can name in Greece or most of the Roman Empire would be calling themselves HermeticSure. Not in the widespread sense. It was largely isolated to secretive circles and scholastics before it grew.
why do you even argue with sun realm schizo?
>>729077761>earliest known chemistsThere was no distinction between Chemistry and Alchemy up until the English industry pressured them into it around the 16th century. They both went under the name Alchemy. Chemistry is just the English word for Alchemy. I have no clue what you're trying to imply, please source it.
>>729077883Most of this thread is fake. Posts copypasted from another thread yesterday
>>729077803Still wrong. Those mystery cults didn’t impact the development of science. Sorry. Hermeticism won. The Hermetica and the Kabbalah have defined western esotericism.
>>729075668Not all, just some. Thops, for example, clearly doesn't have one. The power of runes clearly extends lives too, and Liurnia has two minor Erdtrees.>>729075769Lusat is trying to still teach people but was jailed, he's clearly not seeking isolation. Azur got exiled, he's up on Mt. Gelmir because he's shunned and has no place else to go. Lusat tried to go home to Sellia first. The game doesn't tell us that Azur is beyond the Crystalians, the game tells us that the Glintstone has eaten Azur's brain. If you think he had a Primal Glintstone, then clearly that was left in bad shape too, considering Sellen's miserable state after experimenting on what she retrieved from him and Lusat.>>729075827>>729075887The Graven Mass experiments were the worst of what Sellen did, but both them and the Primal Glintstone arts clearly involve victimizing others, in this case sorcerers, as a fundamental component. The use of the Glintstone Crowns for the Graven Masses implies that Sellen is using the victims' overall flesh for the experiments, including their heads, otherwise each one would just be a massive, floating lump of crystal.>>729075936The last time Sellen saw Azur was before he was devoured by Glintstone, and she only estimates that Lusat is crystal by now. You also didn't address the point about Azur failing to see that Sellen was a mad scientist, so Sellen is clearly just praising herself.>>729076039Those guys are abused slaves who have been shoved into the hearts of Glintstone mines and have been sending fragments of it flying up and lodging into their bodies for ages and ages. If mere contact or use of sorcery was enough, normal sorcerers would all have Glintstone growths on their hands and feet. Only the Hierodas have it in their hands. We even see Ranni's organic corpse with the clothing destroyed and there's no Glintstone sticking out of her.>>729076157Any other Graven Mass creators in the final game are few and far between, if they even exist.
>>729077901I don’t even know want to say to you at this point. I’m just pointing out that there was a time when people tried to chemize the surrounding world.
>>729077539Tolkein has a very modern view on Magic before the word magic which is why he's seen as the grandfather of fantasy in the first place. Alice in Wonderland is much closer to showing what magic was seen as historically.>superstition and hocus pocus was relegated to psychology).Psychology was invented as an alternative to Christianity in the 18th/19th centuryEinstein was a self proclaimed lover of alchemy for a counter example, read his autobiography
>>729071684yin energy is female energy
>>729076654The game mechanics all generally reflect an actual lore state of the game rather than being arbitrary. Sellen's summon being one of the least used doesn't mean it was the least thought about by the game's creators as well. Pre-release stuff is only helpful if it can shed light on post-release stuff without clearly clashing, otherwise the post-release stuff is the final draft. The Lazuli mages in Raya Lucaria presumably sided with the academy against Rennala rather than still being loyal to her. The fact that Evergaols are named for their prisoners (if not given generic regional names) also implies that the troll knight Bols sided with the academy and the Cuckoos against the Carians.
>>729078146>Tolkein has a very modern view on MagicNot really. He knows it’s just psychology. All magic is psychology. There is always going to be some angle where it’s “magic” or “not magic”. >Alice in Wonderland is much closer to showing what magic was seen as historicallyIn the sense that Wonderlanders don’t consider their reality to be magic? That’s no different from Lord of the Rings. Magic is a bar. >Psychology was invented as an alternative to Christianity in the 18th/19th centuryPsychology was around when ancients looked to the stars in the night sky and considered them gods. >Einstein was a self proclaimed lover of alchemy for a counter example, read his autobiographyYes. And even Einstein argued that science wasn’t so one sided. Newton was more so an occultist than a natural philosopher proper. Most brilliant people entertained philosophy and the esoteric.
>>729077883That might be a different schizo than the one who keeps going ballistic over the full moon spells having higher stat requirements than the Primeval Current ones.
>>729078227>The game mechanics all generally reflect an actual lore state of the gameNot always. The ambiguity is part of the fun. Whenever you bring up mechanics as evidence for lore it’s very easy to have a detractor say “it’s just mechanics bro”, and I find that annoying, because I DO agree with you that mechanics and lore are meant to connect at points - but sometimes Miyazaki just doesn’t give a fuck.
>>729077720>>Greek philosophers were one of the hallmarks, or starters, of the wizard stereotype, you realize.Greek Philosophers look and behave nothing like it, modern Wizards are based on Church Fathers and Nordic pseudo history>Those mystery cults didn’t impact the development of science. That's factually incorrect, more to the point that science was only invented after Christianity separated it from general learning.The people partaking in those cults were building society and all it's moral principles at the time
>>729078335To be fair he has a point. It’s kind of dumb to have cosmic spells be a lot less than… a big round rock (also there should be other, bigger moons out there). >>729075603 said it for me.
doll sex
>>729078401>Greek Philosophers look and behave nothing likeOkay. Now you’re really going to lose this. Like. You’ve basically given up. >That's factually incorrect, more to the point that science was only invented after Christianity separated it from general learningNope. Science was never invented. Math was never invented. Einstein didn’t even believe this. There is always going to be science lying in wait. For all time. Whether you listen in to its cosmic symphony or not. The music of the spheres. Science goes all the way back to ancient Egypt. Modern day science is simply the acknowledgment of causality and its methodology.
>>729071573>The moon is female! Magic is female!Why not?Makes sense to me. It unironically even goes hand in hand with old myths and beliefs. Like magic and witchery in old norse cultures, was viewed as a feminine thing. Even in the myths and legends themselves, of male magicians, like Odin, it was viewed as kind of faggot:y to practise magic.
>>729078401>modern Wizards are based on Church Fathers and Nordic pseudo historyModern day wizards are based on old men with beards and always have been. The old bearded sage archetype is old as hell. Same goes for the old wise woman. Greek philosophers were seen as sages. Even pagan figures like Odin. Merlin and Solomon. Moses and the Jews were seen as a race of wizards by the Greeks. But you’re partially not incorrect about Christian monks like Roger Bacon and Albertus Magnus being seen as wizards.
>>729073803I wanna fuck the moon
>>729078301>Psychology was around when ancients looked to the stars in the night sky and considered them gods. >
>>729078401I’m pretty Plato is responsible for a metric fuck ton of anything to do with Platonic thought/magic.
>>729078635Yes. Religion is also a direct precursor to science in observation-theory. The ancients observed the stars and theorized them as the gods. That was the science of their time.
>>729077878>>Sure. Not in the widespread sense. It was largely isolated to secretive circles and scholastics before it grew.Ehh this is wrongThere were rich niggers from India going all the way to Rome to experience these mysterieshardly secretive
>>729071573Magic doesn't come from the moon
>>729078361Points where From said "eh, fuck it," regarding game mechanics tend to be rare or otherwise just follow a direct thread from Demon's Souls (such as fog gates in Dark Souls). You can usually find and provide actual proof of a decision for convenience, which helps a lot when looking into the stories of the games.
>>729078762Yes. And vice versa. Pythagoras was a legend because he travelled all over the place learning from people. But I’d still agree that very few in Rome would go out of their way to say they’re Hermetic. Maybe in Alexandria.
>>729071684Moon is feminine in European culture (only culture that matters)
>>729071573>>729071684From the Japanese perspective that is novel and fantastical.Tsukiyomi has always been masculine, but taking from China and elsewhere, there's always been a current of woman-moon association that is parallel to the homegrown divine male-moon association. Focusing on that gets you something that feels more foreign and fun from a Japanese perspective. As well, in that scenario, the moon itself can remain male, while the woman becomes the Moon God's consort or lover.
>>729078839Egyptian culture says the moon is male and gay sorry.
>>729075135No one cares that the moon is a boy in your culture, pajeet
>>729078839why can't europeans make good video games?
>>729077150Based.
im just angry about women because they dont want to give me sex and have my babies and be my loyal bangwifei am not jokingwomen should IMPLODE
There are no bedrooms in Caria manor. Therefore the Carians never slept. Prove me wrong even though you can’t.
>>729078404In Elden Ring, the moon isn't just "a big round rock", it's an outer god watching and influencing the Lands Between. Rennala's breakthrough was in discovering that her setting's moon (at least of of them) truly is a god and a sapient being rather than a giant rock. The Carians' links to the Mountaintops also imply that they had parallel knowledge of Primeval Current sorceries (and their dangers) too.
>>729078880SAAAAR MOON IS A BOOTIFUL VAGENE LADY SAAAR WITH BOBS SAAAR
>>729072195Ymir is deluded and doesn't realize that he isn't special and the Greater Will fucked off for real and nothing is bringing it back other than maybe another space alien god stealing its planet. Its like Angel's Egg, God is gone unless someone really tries to make him angry. The Dark Moon on the other hand is a real God and will take control if Ranni is helped out.
>>729078853Half the time doesn't the moon god get fused with the myth of Kaguya the moon princess, and then half the time on top of that they fuse both myths with moon rabbits
>>729078981>The Carians' links to the Mountaintops also imply that they had parallel knowledge of Primeval Current sorceries (and their dangers) too.They’ve always had knowledge of the primeval current since Azur is quite possibly their ancestor (his spell is on their ancestral sword), and the “It’s all Carians!” theory is likely true. The irony is that Azur probably wouldn’t be against his own family and Raya Lucarians would scream if they knew their founder was a Carian.
can I drop my schizo theory that st trina is ranni's twin that radagon stole and respecced into miquella with the rune of the unborn?
hush my little culvermy little neckbeardall will be well
>>729078401Dude. Have you SEEN the heads of Greek philosophers? They all look exactly the same. Inb4 “you just hate Greek people and think they all look alike” Idk bearded people all look alike to me
>>729071573the moon is female yesits also considered ghostly/demonic. ive heard people say not to astral project to the moonthe moon is highly yinthe sun might be considered a source of magic as its masculine and magic is masculine as its creative (the magician channeling power from above to below in tarot, for example)>>729077397no hes right, magic and science both use a system of thought that you can understand, quanfity, manipulate, and then produce effect from things. Its always been this way, magicians believe in mechanistic causation, they just have more exotic forces they are working with. This goes back to the earliest mysticisms where the idea that you can manipulate or control spirits.There is a reason you learn that meme that all the early scientists were alchemists or other kinds of occultists, its because they are literally the same thing. You can think of modern science as just the magic that became most popular.the real contrast to this is the religious mindset of simply trusting god and not thinking you can directly create or control things. The religious mindset is that we make decisions and judgements but the actual outcome in reality is not in our control and never has been. Magic and science are the same in this fundamental regard, they believe everything can be understood manipulated forces.
>>729079168>magic is masculine as its creativeA thousand-thousand feminist wiccans obsessing over the power of motherhood are cursing you right now
>>729079168>Dude science is le heckin magic!vomit
>>729079036I'd say moreso that high level Shinto deities are less able to possibly interact with normal humans so they appear less in average stories. Like if you want a fire kami, you'll grab a minor one and not Amaterasu herself. If you want a storm kami you might grab a Kamaitachi or some other minor divine figure, and not Susano'o. Same for the moon. Princess Kaguya is easier to deal as an anthropomorphized character that interacts with humans than Tsukiyomi.
>>729079035The dark moon was destroyed by an army of Astels after the Nox wounded Metyr and she had a massive meltie of a ritual to call down the space bugs. What a great and mighty god. Amazing. It also left behind a void that sucked in the stars and made everything dark.
>>729079231ineffectively since modern meme paganism is just larping>>729079239it is, its also idolatry and condemnable
>>729079239If anything happens. Anything at all. It’s science. Magic that works is science.
>>729079047If Azur was a Carian that would have been said by someone, even if it was just Sellen saying that Azur is the one Carian she has no issues with. Sellen studied with Azur at the academy, so that would have predated Azur's ban and thus any reason to even hypothetically conceal his origins if he was linked to the Carians. The parallel spells thing is more likely, especially since it's noted in item descriptions that the Carians believed the academy would try rebelling against them one day. The Carians saw a benefit in keeping certain info as an ace up their sleeve, along with designing Carian Knight Shields to be highly effective against sorceries too.
>>729079168Magic is masculine for the simple reason that men are the ones poking at mystery.The idea that magic is feminine comes from retarded men who say crap like “bro women are so mysterious I just don’t understand them” as though women don’t think the same shit about men and men’s clubs
>>729079321The gods are real and it isn't a larp
>>729076140Magic only became a 'feminine pursuit' in the late 1800s-early 1900s pagan revivalist era. Which relied on being contrarian to Christian culture that vested magical power in a male priesthood. As a reflection to how pagan revivalism existed as a contradiction of Christian culture, the connection to the divine was moved to a female priesthood instead.
>>729079409>If Azur was a Carian that would have been said by someoneWRONG. Otherwise it wouldn’t be a fun theory. Otherwise it wouldn’t be fun to trigger star purists who think Raya LuCARIA isn’t related to Caria. Azur founded Raya LuCARIA and he’s clearly an old ass Carian grandpa. ;^)I doubt he’d just lend his spell to a sword for no good reason, too. Must be family.
>>729079157Long long beards are a Yid stereotype Also the models for those sculptures weren't really greeks, google how gayreeks saw themselves, cocks hanging out and all
>>729079438Women are the secretive, furtive sex. They lack power and must connive in other ways. Poison is womanly. Deception is womanly. The weak rays of the Moon are womanly. Magic which has centuries worth of obfuscation keeping it elusive and hidden is womanly. Magic users are beta and feminine.
>>729079409Sellen is implied to be a Carian too anon. Her invulnerability/“immortality” might just match up with Azur’s. She ran away from home and ran to cool old guy Azur (who was a crystal at this time) and it fucked up her psyche forever (she calls him her first teacher, and she’s all like “he has such a good sense for character…”, even after seeing his current state). Notice how Lusat is held in a vault and the Karolos are nowhere near Azur. “Contacting the primeval current” might just mean interacting with a primeval sorcery. It may fuck you up.
>>729071684the moon is associated with women in a lot of cultures because the lunar cycles affects women and their menstrual cycles.women are often associated with magic because magic was very loosely defined, the power to "charm" people or manipulate them was already considered magic.As was turning raw ore into a shiney iron in some cultures.
>>729079318The Black Moon was probably an effigy of the Dark Moon (although the Nox don't use ice magic so it might not have been for the dark moon itself), not an actual God of any sort. It is described as being too spatially close while the Dark Moon is distant.
>>729071573la lunala magiain Spanish, they are
>>729079597Men with power are way more secretive than women without power. They have a lot more walls to hide behind. More away in the shadows.
>>729079674Those are lunar men, not solar men. Solar men are dictators.
>>729079638I really don’t think there’s a difference between the dark and black moon (but an artificial moon underground would have been a cool sight…) since they’re both described as cold and leaden. Ranni is simply the revival of the lost dynasty of the Nox.
>>729079460illusions>>729079674the entire female approach is passivity and manipulationa man acting that way is just being feminine, everyones got some of both. consult this diagram
>>729079729Nah. The sun is blinding for a reason anon. ;^) The greatest magic trick of all is perhaps convincing someone that something *isn’t magic*. Occult infrastructure.
>>729079757>veryones got some of both. consult this diagramThis is also another Hermetic principle, the male/solar and female/lunar are in complementarity with each other. Hence why this thread itself is so stupid.
>>729079757That’s wrong. Cunning wins wars. Women are more like men than you realize. “Cunning is a woman’s weapon” is disingenuous when cunning is the truest weapon of war.
It’s be funny if Azur and Lusat don’t even care about the current state of their respective conspectuses and are just vibing for the sake of vibing
>>729079035his info given is the same as hyetta's, so it's likely correct. nothing (one great) = big bang (fractured) = everything (the mistake). all the outer gods, the greater will and so on are just powerful entities.
>>729071848>ChandraShit covered hands made this post
>>729079886>“Cunning is a woman’s weapon” is disingenuous when cunning is the truest weapon of war.Represented by Pallas Athena
As far as Indoeuropean study goes, the sun (Seh2ul) was rendered as female, while the moon (Meh1not) was male. The sun was typically connected to its nurturing, life-giving aspects: warmth, light, fertility, life-giving, etc. The sun goddess is especially well attested because she was of great importance. She would have festivals in the summer that would become Midsummer, and her daughter was given spring rites.
astels are just space bugs that feed on meteors. there's zero indication they follow any will beyond animal instinct. that's why they use gravity magic. they got no int. the bit about them destroying the nox's black moon happened. they ate it and there's several old and withered astels you find underground. they just interpreted it as punishment from a god. the greater will was long gone by that point.
>>729079827This entire thread is bait. Whether the sun or moon is male or female depends entirely on the culture or tradition in question. It’s entirely interchangeable. Even in Egypt you have suspicious gender benders. “What if god was goddess??”. Yeah it only takes one to think that. And then it spreads.
>>729079498"Caria" might be part of a broader name or term in Liurnian culture, hence "Lucaria" as the academy's name While Azur just founded one of the schools. Also, there's speculation that "Raya Lucaria" is a possible mistranslation of "Royal Caria": IIRC, the academy's name is written in Katakana, so it's phonetically pronounced as something like "Roy-ah-lu Caria." It depends on if G.R.R.M. or Miyazaki created the name for the academy.
>>729079470The thing I disagree with is the idea that a pursuit is masculine just because it's predominantly men who do it, particularly when we're talking about the general public's view of the fucking thing. Mostly men play Magic the Gathering. I wouldn't call it a masculine pursuit. It's predominantly occupied by men who aren't particularly masculine. Along that same line of thinking, this guy's arguments get even worse when you force him to account for modern magic practices, as opposed to his suppositions about ancient cults. Walk into a Wiccan circle and try to find a guy who doesn't know what beard oil is.
>>729079886anon you seem to be yin aligned. me tooits not masculine>>729080134interestingly in hebrew the sun is female and moon is male. western occultism is heavily based on kabbalah. what gives? beats me
Evil blue bitch.
>>729080145It actually means Real Caria.
>>729079620Sellen is just called something like a "Carian weed" in the context of problems the Carians seek to solve. Sellen probably isn't a Carian, especially since being a Carian would mean she was once a princess and thus would likely have special robes in the paintings of her, not the normal academy ones. There are some Karolos sorcerers near Azur, but they probably embarked from the academy to find him. Sellen's studies with Azur happened at the academy, hence her overall ire toward the Carians for banning Primeval Current sorceries.
Blows my mind that people think Azur and Lusat ended their careers with their primeval spells rather than begin with them. Nobody is paying attention at all.
>>729080351>Sellen is just called something like a "Carian weed" in the context of problems the Carians seek to solve. Sellen probably isn't a Carian,Her portrait is holding a Carian scroll.She uses a Carian catalyst. Her fate is suspiciously tied to Ranni’s. Carian “weed” could imply she is a distant relative.
>>729080206When it comes to talking about the esoteric sexual energies it honestly rarely matters if people perceive it to not be masculine or feminine. This is largely because these energies can be converted to be one thing or the other. What matters more is that most of this is gatekeeping so simple things requires being initiated instead of actually needing to know it.
>>729080351>There are some Karolos sorcerers near Azur, but they probably embarked from the academy to find him.They aren’t near him. He’s just around the corner from him. They also forced the only Olivinus in the area to teach the demihumans, implying they don’t like the Olivinus just like Sellen. The Karolos and Hierodas appear to be pro primeval, while the Olivinus and the Lazuli appear to be against it.
>>729073989>>729074080Seithr was a specific type of prophecy magic that was associated with women and Odin was considered a fag for learning. But magic in general was not feminine. Odin's normal use of magic and runes was not feminine. Uthgard Loki was not gay for using illusion magic, etc.
>>729074113Wicca is a fake religion invented in the 20th century.
>>729080351>Sellen's studies with Azur happened at the academy, hence her overall ire toward the Carians for banning Primeval Current sorceries.Her words imply he was a crystal even during this time. Sellen also calls Lusat ‘nigh a child of the stars’, which is odd, considering the timeline.
Sellen inherited Azur’s staff. Azur had no part in the graven mass experiments. That graven mass was found in Sellen’s room.
>>729071573ranni sexo
I’m also not convinced that Sellen balled herself.
>>729080440Carian sorceries were taught at the academy, hence the Lazuli Conspectus. The Carian staff is likely something Seluvis provided when procuring at least one back-up body for Sellen. Lionel also has a Carian staff at the Radahn Festival and Jerren uses one too after the Radahn Festival, so the Carians don't currently have all of those staves accounted for. Even Gideon Ofnir has a Carian staff, though he probably got it from Seluvis in the past, based on their history. Sellen isn't tied to Ranni's "fate", she just had a spell that kept her alive and inadvertently had its effects extended by Radahn freezing the stars (if he was already the Starscourge when Rennala exiled Sellen, he'd have probably just made an exception on that part of the seal for his mom).
>>729071684>opposite irlwhere?
>>729080495>it honestly rarely matters if people perceive it to not be masculine or feminine. This is largely because these energies can be converted to be one thing or the other.The ORIGINAL POINT, as far back behind us it is in this rabbit hole of autism, is that Elden Ring is under some sort of onus to portray two things as male. The fucking moon, and magic. And my point is that it isn't, because it is portraying how people as a whole view these things, not just the unfuckable esoterics who penned them.
>can't kill this bitchI fucking hate Miyazaki for forcing us to side with satanic shit.
>>729080946I appreciate you trying so damn hard to disregard the obvious environmental storytelling taking place.
>>729080539"Just around the corner from him" implies being near him, they're probably trying to prevent anyone warring on Gelmir from running off with his body. The fact that they're teaching the nearby demi-humans sorcery implies that they've been up there for some time. Also, aren't they all Karolos sorcerers up there with no other Conspectus?
>>729080969Magic is female anon. Deal with it. Elden Ring’s lore just implies that women are better at magic and smarter than men. Oh well. This is just how Miyazaki intended it.
>>729071848Destroyed.
the future is female
>>729081084Now you're just not reading what I'm writing.
>>729080708Sellen's words don't imply that Azur was being devoured by Glintstone when she studied with him. Sellen only seems to know or have heard about such a thing happening to Lusat, though the fact that she has to estimate what he's currently like instead of outright knowing it implies he wasn't largely devoured by Glintstone when she last saw him either.
>>729081052They are staying away from Azur. They aren’t in his line of sight. They probably don’t want to be too close to a radioactive wizard. >Also, aren't they all Karolos sorcerers up there with no other Conspectus?You find the Hierodas set there. The guy teaching the demihumans is indeed an Olivinus.
The moon is female, that's why there's a man on her
>>729080969It was already answered, the Alchemy that Elden Ring is using as a basis for the setting keeps the sun and moon seperated as male and female. People only argue past this because people don't like acknowledging that the masons are real and have been a part of this stuff in history for a long time.There is this persistent meme or idea that masonry isn't legitimate mythology.
>>729081179>Sellen's words don't imply that Azur was being devoured by Glintstone when she studied with himWhen you show Sellen Azur’s spell she remakes on his personality. Or his good judge of character. She also knows of Lusat’s current state (“nigh a child of the stars”), so, the conclusion is that she assumed that you had interacted with a crystallized Azur, who she then claims is a stern judge of men. The only alternative is assuming Sellen is schizophrenic and attributing personalities to rocks. It’s certainly possible.
I'm yet to start this game but I read pretty much everywhere it's by far the most tedious one to replay due to the open world meme
There’s a Man in the Moon.
I hope you dumbasses realize the guy who made this thread argues for both sides for the sake of continuing the bait and doesn’t actually care about anything
>>729071684>when it’s in fact the opposite irlWhat? Where in the world is the moon associated with men?Are you thinking of werewolves? That's because of the image of wolves howling at the moon, not because of men.
>>729081286>the erdtree took up the sun’s job and the sun is far and distant >the moon is oversized or way too close to the earth Ah. Yes. More evidence that Elden Ring is a feminist supremacy game.
>>729071775>European myths broadly have the moon as feminine.But notably not Germanic (including English) cultures, where the moon is male and the sun is female.
>>729081494I like the ambiguity over academy politics :) it’s more fun than another thread about Malenia vs Radahn
>>729071775Moon being feminine is prevalent in another of ancient cultures around the world especially in Asia where most souls mythos gets their inspiration from. Moon is associated with women's cycles most of the time.
>>729081709And as another pointed out it’s actually not as common as you’d think.
>>729081013I'm not disregarding the environment, I'm pointing out the broader scope and greater details of the environment. By accounting for these things, we can rule out Sellen being a Carian.
Rennala’s full moon is actually a direct counter to Stars of Ruin and Comet Azur, functionally speaking. In game it will eat through Comet Azur and suck in Stars of Ruin. But, the primeval sorcerers are immune to all forms of magic damage, so...
In a non deterministic world everything out of the ordinary is magic which is why in spite the posts in this thread, the Greeks never explicitly had anything called magic and all the magical shit happening to them was just considered 'normal'Consider that they didnt even know what determinism is (nor Chaos, Chaos meant abyss/gap/opening in Greek)Also most religions have 2 S/M deities, the Sun/Moon and some sort of 'Harnessing guy' for each
>>729081856Nah.
>>729081325What would Azur's character-judging skills have to do with whether or not he's being devoured by Glintstone? Sellen knows of Lusat's current state because she was already trying to find him, hence her taking the Sellian Sealbreaker from a Sellian mage. It's only from further talks with the Tarnished and following up on those leads that she learns both Azur and Lusat are being devoured by Glintstone.
>>729081927> Pervasive throughout the Eastern Mediterranean and West Asia until late antiquity and beyond, mágos (μάγος) was influenced by (and eventually displaced) Greek goēs (γόης), the older word for a practitioner of magic, with a meaning expanded to include astronomy, astrology, alchemy, and other forms of esoteric knowledge. This association was in turn the product of the Hellenistic fascination for Pseudo-Zoroaster, who was perceived by the Greeks to be the Chaldean founder of the Magi and inventor of both astrology and magic, a meaning that still survives in the modern-day words "magic" and "magician".Greeks absolutely had a word for magic they just weren’t retarded about it. They absolutely knew that “I know something you don’t know” often leads to “I can do something you can’t do”, which often will lead to “magic! sorcery! wizard!”. One of the Plinys actually said something quite cheeky. I forget the exact saying. But the point was that “all hocus pocus is absolute bullshit — but you never know if some asshole demon is around to reinforce such bullshit do you may as well entertain it anyway…”.That is the equivalent of saying “aliens”.
>>729076386My sexy doll wife!
>>729082110She clearly reveres him anon. I bet Azur would be proud. That she doesn’t use any of his heads in her graven masses says a lot.
>>729082118but you never know if some asshole demon is around to reinforce such bullshit so* you may as well entertain it anyway
>>729082136>sexless 0 curves creepy shitWhy are you retards attracted to this monstrosity?
>>729081902>But, the primeval sorcerers are immune to all forms of magic damage, so...THOSE ARE JUST GAME MECHANICS WHAT DONT YOU FUCKING UNDERSTAND???
>>729082336Yes, but as another said, mechanics may have lore precedence ;)
>>729082118>mágosWasnt a word for Magic, it was a word for the Zoroastrian equivalent of a priest and Persians were hated by Greeks for obvious historic reasons, but Zoroastrians also didnt separate divinity from magic as Christians ended up doing. This is because the term itself is Zoroastrian, and only entered the lexicon as is thanks to ChristianityIn other words, they didnt have a word for magic.>with a meaning expanded to include astronomy, astrology, alchemy, and other forms of esoteric knowledge.Is wrong, and happened much later. Greeks and Egyptians practiced alchemy, Zoroastrians had little to do with it, it was always a Greco-Egyptian thing.It was Christian Greece that created the term magic as they'd use it nowadays.https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%CE%BC%CE%AC%CE%B3%CE%BF%CF%82
>>729082336Turtle pope: “don’t attack me. I am made of stone. nothing you do will work”Turtle pope: *still dies*Why do they get a pass but not turtle pope?
>>729082512Anon. You’re the one who is wrong here. The Greeks absolutely had a concept of magic. >Is wrong, and happened much later. Greeks and Egyptians practiced alchemy, Zoroastrians had little to do with it, it was always a Greco-Egyptian thing.They were astrologer-priests. They did dabble in other things aside. You are assuming they had nothing else to offer.
>>729082118Greeks and Romans believed in the Divine Nature of their Gods and their ability to perform miraclesThe shit talking your seeing is that historically (since forever) the Mediterannian people have had rivalries with Persians and Zoroastrianism is the Persian religion. What we're talking about as magic has origins in combining polythistic prospects of Divine Power + Eastern concepts of Yoga, energy work and the like
>>729082512>but Zoroastrians also didnt separate divinity from magic as Christians ended up doingI’ve talked to Zoroastrians who say it’s a personal matter whether you see it as a form of magic or not. Magic is often one sided. A percentage of Catholics did see their rites as a form of magic, and there were spellbooks for the summoning of angels, but it was frowned upon, and the monks who practiced demonology behind closed doors would pretend it was totally good and wholesome and white colored.
>>729082219soll dex
>>729082512>they didnt have a word for magicYes, they did. It was just thrown your way. Greek goēs (γόης)Where do you think the word Goeteia is from? It was the original word for magic.
>>729071848>masculine more often than feminineWhat the fuck sort of argument is this for fiction? People are fat more often than fit, does that mean human NPCs should be obese? Magic is fire bolts more often than ghost swords so the latter is dumb and lame to put in your game?
>>729082740>Greeks and Romans believed in the Divine Nature of their Gods and their ability to perform miraclesYes. Magic.>The shit talking your seeing is that historically (since forever) the Mediterannian people have had rivalries with Persians and Zoroastrianism is the Persian religionYes. It was very common to label your rival religions as sorcerers and magicians and such. Zoroastrians didn’t necessarily see themselves as wizards. They were a group of sacred fire tenders. >What we're talking about as magic has origins in combining polythistic prospects of Divine Power + Eastern concepts of Yoga, energy work and the likeNo.
>>729071956This. Solar system is Sun's harem.
>>729082740>polythistic prospects of Divine Power + Eastern concepts of Yoga, energy work and the likeThat’s not really unique to any one region of the globe. The Greeks had their own equivalent of Chi/Qi. Pneuma. India had its own. Cultures around the world came to surprisingly similar conclusions, however woo woo. Especially alchemy and concepts of inner/outer transformation. Lao Tsu is the eastern Hermes.
>>729071684>>729071848>its this was in real life therefore it must be that way in a fantasy gamefuck off
I always laughed at people who go “It’s not magic it’s a miracle it’s totally different!”“It’s not magic it’s science it’s totally different!”EtcWhen it’s not really different at all It’s a good litmus test to see how intelligent someone is; if they cannot get this
>>729082541Miriel is basically the introduction to the mechanics of attacking friendly NPCs. He has a lot of health and high defenses so its hard for a player to kill him without being seriously committed to murdering him, and he won't aggro to give players the excuse of lashing out from being attacked, but he can ultimately be killed, resulting in players losing the best spell mentor in the game, as a consequence. Azur and Lusat only relate to a single spell and getting their armor from Sellen's quest line, so attacking them for ages with such a high HP pool and high defenses would just be obnoxious, like if cheesing Greyoll (minus the cheese part) was the only option to defeat Greyoll, and you could get more than one unique spell.
>>729082932>dude it’s all from fucking INDIACan you PLEASE just fuck OFF already Blavatsky… you dumb dead bitch…
>>729082604>The Greeks absolutely had a concept of magic.They had a habit of calling Persians niggers and everything that was Persian and not Greek as niggardly, but they did not have the conception of magic we're speaking of right now as a defined concept as everything we would call magic now, if you asked a Greek, he'd say it's the power of a Greater Spirit/Genius (genie/demon aka Daimon) or a God. And Greeks (Egyptians even more so, all Pharaoh were Gods as was Alexander) believed you could become a Genius/Daimon/Immortal too. This whole prospect also influenced Platonist thought which people jerk off as being the one true existentialist view.
>>729071573That's the witch that stroked that smaller dude's dick right?
>>729082817>>Greek goēs (γόης)Meant "Incanter" or "Invoker" ie someone who invokes the gods verbally, then Plato redefines it as 'sophist' and 'manipulator' due to his harsh anti religious dogma stance so it ends up being associated as you'd expect.
>>729071573this is itthe most autistic thread on /v/
>>729083264>but they did not have the conception of magic we're speaking of right now as a defined concept as everything we would call magic nowAnon the Greeks were superstitious as fuck and their women would use menstrual blood to cast curses.
>>729083940Read the whole line of reasoning, it's about magic as a term vs the concept of anything supernatural, not arguing that Greeks were materialist atheist rationalists
>>729083804Yes. That’s fucking magic. Are you one of those morons who thinks there’s a class distinction between wizards and clerics? Are you perhaps brain rotted? You DO realize that magic and prophecy were given by Helios, Hecate and such? Yes? ALL magic has to do with the gods. ALL magic (like, overly conveniently systemic magic) has SOME sort of intelligence behind it. Even shamans were called witches and sorcerers. Even the most scientific of wizards like Hermetics were attempting to petition and unite with the gods.
>>729071573Some of the the eldritch abominations that keep courting you in Elden Ring have probably figured out that men are more suspectible to influence from puppets in female form like Marika and Ranni.Big shout out to the fire guy and rot guy for having male puppets.
>>729080206Magic is gender neutral. Guys like Paracelsus weren't fags for doing their alchemy.
>>729084128>>Yes. That’s fucking magic.The discussion is about Elden Ring where Magic is a separate, specific force second to nature as it is in most video game storiesIt was not called Magic in ancient Greece, because this separation that 90% of modern media used did not exist.
>>729084145Anon, the Frenzied Flame has Hyetta.
>>729084128>>729084214In fact, the only religion to truly have this distinction as it is presented in games is Judaism, where there was1. faith and commitment to serving YHWH2. magic, which meant calling on to foreign gods to do dirty work for youEverything else from Norse to Greek to Egyptian to Hindu to Buddhist does not separate in such a way.
>>729071684>>729071848the moon is a girl because i'm a straight man and i wanna fuck the moon
>>729084020>it's about magic as a term vs the concept of anything supernaturalWhat the fuck is magic to you? The idea that magic was supernatural rather than natural is an oversimplification. Magic in history was a part of nature. Whether it’s natural or supernatural is irrelevant when the latter is just a way of saying “idk it’s a lot weirder than expected”, or “Idk how it works”, or “i don’t like it; it scares me; and therefore witchcraft”, etc.
Zoroastrians were explicitly the ones negatively associated with the word because they did what Christians did later, which is beg for money from everyone while trying to proselytize and tell people to give up everything they know>>729084420Read the thread, magic as a word or concept only existed as a context involving Zoroastrianism and later Christianity
>>729084283And Rot has Malenia but she is too busy stuffing your asshole with a sword to count.
>>729076514>>729076140>>729071868>>729076235>>729072818>>729078839>>729081541>>729079626Mani is male.Sol is femalet. Norse mythology.
>>729084214>The discussion is about Elden Ring where Magic is a separate, specific force second to nature as it is in most video game storiesNo it’s not. Nature IS magic and vice versa. It’s all physics. Fuck. Nature itself acts like a competing cancer. The study of the very stuff of life itself IS sorcery. Glintstone is a nod to stardust, and how we all come from it.
>>729084496The Scarlet Rot is trying to take over Malenia, she isn't a servant advocating for it. I think >>729084145 is referring to Gowry.
>>729084328Rabbis will tell you that Moses was technically no different from the sorcerers of Egypt he faced. Jews are too logical to pretend otherwise.
>>729084520Artemis is femaleApollo is male
>>729084636The existence of mass jewish slavery is not supported by historic evidence so who knows
>>729084783Never heard of them.
>>729084476>Read the thread, magic as a word or concept only existed as a context involving Zoroastrianism and later ChristianityEquivalent concepts exist abroad. This isn’t really something you can invent. It’s that vital sensation and accusation. But the WORD magic comes from Zoroastrianism — the magi — which came from magh/megh, meaning “to have power”, and magic and power are quite similar in that both are quite relative.
>>729084826ak egypt never had those jews enslaved and the fight the jews won to get away never even happened
>>729084783Artemis is a tomboy.There's also Hecate.
>>729084852In Greece they would be called Gods, Heroes, Immortals or Poisoners. Raya Lucaria would be filled with ripped philosophers who slay monsters and Ranni would be drinking Kykeon and Ergot
>>729085082>poisonersThe word for this was also associated with sorcery, and would later become the word for pharmacy. I know this because I am Greek.
>>729085213technically it wasnt associated with it, it predated it and its meaning. Sorcerror is an off brand poisoner historicallyCirce is the most famous Poisoner and shes called a Sorcerress and Witch in modern times.
>>729081013That Sellen is not a large lord Carian?
>>729072801Be born in India.
>>729085082Perhaps, since “magic” or “sorcery” are closer to heretical or pejorative terms not suited for clear academic discourse, the academy of Raya Lucaria adopted terms like ‘glintstone sorcery’ to spite detractors and critics, and the superstitious.
>>729085082or Daimons/Genius which mean "creator/lover of life/intellect/higher spirit"Its where Muslim and Christian terms Demon and Djinn Genie come from
I could see how a moon could be feminine since it's objectively a weaker and inferior celestial body compared to the real power players.It also never shuts it fucking mouth about the pettiest most retarded bullshit.
>>729071684The sun (sol) has always been a masculine force and the moon (luna) is his lover.
>>729071912I can't think of a single time final fantasy borrowed a name from mythology and used it correctly. Not once.Even in ff16, the latest one, uses logos and mythos in the most retarded inebriated way I've seen.
>die Sonne>der MondThe sun is female and the moon is male, niggas.
>>729071684>euro inspired fantasy >uses Selene and Luna as inspirations Nani?!
>>729085948Hermetic tradition begs to differ. But then again all of the big secrets can be narrowed down to "wöööö it's actually the other way around" or "wöööö they are actually part of whole" so who knows at this point.
>>729085362The effect and essence is still the same, and very much abroad. Poison has always been associated with sorcery - or just the ability to control or dominate or ‘poison’ minds.Even in Asia you have strange practices like having poisonous bugs consume each other for magical/murderous effects, and as such sorcerers were often indistinguishable from assassins. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kodokuhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gu_(poison)I get what you’re saying. But my point is that these essences that led to pointing fingers, superstitious fear and belief, and accusations of [insert pejorative label and practice here] aren’t really possible to be claimed by any one region or culture of the globe. It’s as inevitable as religion. Accusations of hocus pocus (“idk it scares me!”) are no different from accusing the stars of being the gods (“idk they bewilder me!”). Magic is indistinguishable from religion, in that vein. Existence is both stage and magician. Even going further, religion is a soft precursor to science in observation-theory. The ancients observed the stars and theorized them as gods. That was the science of their time, in the observational sense. Even very recently this same fear caused a panic in France. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affair_of_the_Poisons
>>729085495Based on historic consistency, they would most likely be called after the Gods similar to Hermeticto mean 'of X'So if its 'of Renalla' they'd be 'Renallios' or 'Rannios' but ios is greek while those names are North/Northwest European, so 'Deranni' would be a more accurate term.
>men have known for 100k years that women are evil and crazy>office work is invented>weak men work in offices>games come from offices>evil and crazy women demand being put in charge of games>woke era began
>>729086114>people are being poisoned! it must be witches!Lel. French people are silly.
>>729086307These games are mostly written by Miyazaki himself - the motiff Ranni used was present in the Souls games and Sekiro
>>729071573The moon is usually feminine in ancient cultures. In europe there were superstitious that the menstrual cycle was tied to the phases of the Moon. In aztec mythology the moon has different creation; One of them being the head of Huitzilopochtli's sister after he massacred her and his 400 brothers.
>>729083157it's all the same, yes. demon's souls was more on the nose with this, but it's all the same in elden ring.
>>729071684Why do you think a woman's period is called a MENSTRUAL cycle>Mensis refers to the Latin word for "month," linked to the Greek "mene" (moon)>menstrual>mensis >(moon)
>>729085750Literally never happens.
>>729071684The Sun is male and the moon is female, only the japanese have it backwards.
>>729087189I enjoy how every tower incantation in sote is explicitly labeled a sorcery.
>>729087189>>729087543All magic in Elden Ring is fundamentally an incantation. The only difference is whether its channeled through glintstone or not. Glintstone sorceries are a subset of incantations. Ranni's Dark Moon is literally a spell powered by her faith in the Dark Moon God, but its channeled through Glintstone, so its a sorcerery.
>>729080000Checked
>>729071684>Why IS the moon considered feminine in Souls games when it’s in fact the opposite irl?The moon in Fromsoft games isn't based off Nordic/Germanic pantheon. Remember, the developers are Japanese.
>>729080663>Wicca is a fake religionDo you even understand what the word religion means? It is real religion because it is real to them.
>>729088881A religion that people only follow out of contrarian rejection of the mainstream cult of their society is not a real religion.
This thread made me realized how euros are more ignorant than Americans about other ancient cultures and Asian mythology you know the basis of all soulsborne games.
>>729089159Average burger has no idea what Shaitan or Iblis are, lives in a trailer and thinks the current president is either this "Satan" guy or reborn "Jesus". Oh and also wears stars and stripes overalls.
>>729072587Logically, int is for girls, faith is for men
>>729071573You were supposed to let women have this one unc...
>>729073042NTA but you should lose your v card instead of falling for obvious bait like a retard.
>>729088973>A religion that people only follow out of contrarian rejection of the mainstream cult of their society is not a real religionSays you.
>>729088881
>>729088973>>A religion that people only follow out of contrarian rejection of the mainstream cult of their society is not a real religion.This applies to Christianity more than it does to Wiccanism
>>729090459Just call it Wicca/Wiccan. There's no need to use the ism suffix.
>>729090775You have aut
>>729071601Do her questline and finish the game then, you dimwitted excuse of a Tarnshed.
>>729071573>>729071684menstrual cycles dude idk.
>>729088245Grrm wrote this shit though
>>729071573Shut up tranny
>>729093293women are the channels of power in this world (marika, rennala ect) so it mightve just been a coincidence that renalas daughter became the series witch, especially when fromsoft added to it
>>729071601Pidia...
>>729093534Marika can't channel by Bloodflame dick
If this was western you'd be onto something.But the real answer is that Miyazaki is a fucking loser waifufag. It's the same reason why a lot of anime have hot powerful women in them and weak/no men. He's just jerking off. It's been like that since Demon Souls where you always had to go to that dumb bitch to level up.
>>729093293>Grrm wrote this shit thoughFemale moon goddess is in Dark Souls too (Velka).
>>729082219>sexlessYou can see the vagoo right there with flesh still attached. Besides, a little ropeburn here and there wouldn't be a problem. Also 4-handed handjobs.>0 curvesShe's got just enough curves to excite my penis>creepy shitGets my blood pumping
>>729090196Lmao at the reflection
>>729095248Level up bitches served no purpose than to kill them and get level ups and Miyazaki hardly waifufags them. Waifufaggotry in this is way less than what we get in a typical western game.
>>729095248Your average western game has more waifufagging than the typical soulsborne which is almost nonexistent outside of Ranni.
