>>729084771
ngl u kinda spittin it fell off after acquiring the lordvessel desu

>>729084771
Fast travel makes exploration a lot less engaging because you're no longer worried about being stuck in a tough spot without an easy way to get out. That relative lack of tension is palpable in every subsequent DS game that lets you fast travel right away too.

>>729084771
Because you repeat this meme until you gaslight yourself into believing it's true. In fact most of the best/most memorable levels (New Londo, Tomb of the Giants, Dukes Archive, Painted world) are in the second half. The only crappy stage is Lost Izalith and the Demon Ruins.

>>729084931
This, I'll always remember how fucking isolated I felt whenever I was at the bottom of the depths for my first time and my only options are to backtrack through some stinking sewers or continue headfirst into the river of shit in blight town.
Have some consequences to the path you take makes the game so much more interesting and memorable.
New Londo is fairly interesting, but Demon Ruins is just it's own isolated region with no interaction between other zones, just one major shortcut that leads to itself. Similar situation for the Archives, they're isolated with one enterance.
Tomb/Crypts has the strange balancing where Crypts expects you to visit sooner so it's trivial if you wait until you actually need to visit, especially if you put it off until you have a sunlight bug I have no idea if that's the expected progression or what.
Deep darkroot is pretty cool.

>>729085050
Most players go through Painted World before beating O&S for the Lordvessel DOE

>>729085336
I have literally never done painted world before O&S, in all the 20 playthroughs I've done of this game.

>>729085419
why not

>>729084771
That type of level design is difficult if you don’t scope for it and design around the fact that it takes a lot of playtesting. Fromsoft essentially in my uninformed opinion tried to make that looping level design twice. They met roadblocks for the second and we got what we got

You can see parallels with RE1 PS1 where it starts as a looping level concept and then sequentially focus down into zones after the initial mansion. Which is essentially what DS1 did but stumbled their way ass backwards into it.

Gamers and DS1 fags don’t like to hear it but that type of looping for game design is immensely difficult and time consuming. It can be offset by studying Dungeon design and FPS level design pre-2013 before it all became 3 lane corridors

>>729085694
he's a guide eating retard

>>729085419
You want to revist asylum asap because you can get the rusty ring for the swamp, might as well grab the doll too. Painted world isn't particularly hard that you want to delay it.

>>729085419
You've never thought to do the Asylum runback before Blighttown so you can have the rusted iron ring for the swamp section? I always grab the peculiar doll while I'm at it. I assume you just pick the master key and go straight to Quelaag's from Valley of Drakes, right?

>>729085694
I dunno. I guess I never did a Lifehunt Scythe Build?

>>729084771
Because the second half of the game is either filled with obnoxious gimmicks like Tomb of the Giants being dark as fuck, annoying to traverse, like New Anor Londo, or a mixture of both along with being rushed, like Lost Izalith
Game is still great but it takes a big drop in quality and only survives that drop thanks to the fantastic Library and Crystal Caves at the end

>>729085830
>>729085837
I go back to the asylum on the return from Parish usually. I just think it's weird to start Anor Londo then leave for the painting halfway through. Especially when you have the Giant Blacksmith unlock at the end of Anor Londo. It doesn't make sense to go do Painted World first unless you have some build related thing you want.

>>729086251
>halfway through.
It's barely that, you haven't even started Anor Londo.

>>729086419
What a strange hill to die on.

>>729084771
it doesn't.

>>729084771
The core design philosophy of DS1 only has enough steam to last until Sen's Fortress. Anor Londo feels like a natural conclusion to the game and it would probably be better if it ended there. The post-AL areas have to rely on gimmicks that don't really work and aren't much fun (TotG, New Londo, Archives) or are just plain unfinished (Lost Izalith).

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>>729084771
I wish OP falls off a cliff

>>729086462
Just my opinion, I don't see how it interrupts Anor Londo at all when that zone hasn't even started before you do the silly greatbow run across the roof.

>>729086251
I always look forward to Painted World in my playthroughs. It's brief, tightly designed, and entirely self-contained, so it can be completed in under 2 hours without a hitch. Comparatively, Anor Londo is a slog.
>>729086462
What are you blabbering about? He's right. You just take an elevator, fight a gargoyle, and kill some painting guardians to get to the Painted World. You haven't reached Anor Londo proper yet.

>>729084771
that's when the interconnectedness of the level design no longer has value. The shortcuts you unlock are redundant and not valuable when you can just warp everywhere.

>>729085830
you can clear the game fine without rusted ring. It’s not riveting game wading through the swamp or trying to fight the hydra, but it’s doable.

>>729086580
In the old Metroidvania sense it's not a bad idea, like in SotN once you reach the top of the castle and beat Richter, the situation changes, you get a new objective, you have to re-explore the castle under a new condition with new abilities and fight on again until you reach the real final boss.
I see the lordvessel as an attempt to do the same thing, only you don't gain any new exploration abilities and nothing in the world changes it's just a few roadblocks have been opened.
Good idea, terrible execution.

>>729086791
You can clear the game fine without picking up the doll too.

>>729085050
You can do new londo before the lord vessel if you kill the NPC on top of the church

>>729086960
But if you do that then you can't do the DLC before Sif and you miss out on the few frames of bonus cutscene.

ironically I played through the two best areas in the game (painted world and catacombs) after getting the lordvessel

>>729086791
You can beat the game in a diaper and ringless but it's not very fun.

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>falls off right at the beginning of the game

>>729087651
Getting ganked is not so bad when the enemies are so slow, if this were in ER these guys would dash at you within an instant and immediately start doing a 5 hit combo.

>>729087651
>13k souls
>9 estus flasks
>+1
lol

>>729086960
I thinks it's a little disingenuous to say these areas aren't allowed to be counted in the second half because you can technically do them before O&S. By your definition the second half of the game is just Lost Izalith, Tomb of the Giants and Duke's Archives.

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>>729087852
>if this were a good game than the enemies would be enemies
Wow amazing analysis

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>the first half is good j-just trust me bro
and yet there's not one single webm of this mythical "first half" that has ever made the game look good.

I like the capra demon boss fight.

Painted World is kino.

>if you run instead of fighting the enemies...you run instead of fighting enemies
fascinating

>>729087150
that always bothered me, kind of wish they made the alternate cutscene for the Sif fight the main one if you have the DLC installed, just because the chosen undead hasn't been to oolacile yet doesn't mean they won't later, Plus it'd leave new players wondering "why did the giant wolf do that?"

>>729084771
Because they ran out of time, Miyazaki himself said so in the designworks doc. Funnily enough, his simps leave that part out when they insist Izalith was actually "le great".

Why can't we save Quelaag and reason with her?

>>729084771
cause fast travel is boring and ruins the game (play DS2 no-bonfires)
cause you pretty much max out and dont progress anymore
some crappy/unfinished levels

>>729088265
no one cares about you clowning for clips
its a great game with fun combat

It does but people exaggerate by how much. I find that the decline in quality is lower than say post-Drangleic Castle in DS2 but you don't see as many people specifically complaining about that. Bloodborne also falls off once you step inside Yahar'gul (except for the kidnap event) and Sekiro's endgame has so much recycled content in Ashina Castle that it's possibly the most egregious case of fall off in quality on the second half but nobody talks about it.
In other words, how infamous Dark Souls 1's second half is shows the power of memes more than anything else. People repeat it because they hear it.

>>729085830
I do this too nowadays but you have literally no way of knowing this on your first playthrough. You're already in a minority if you find that you can revisit the asylum at all to begin with, let alone the most optimal time to go on a first playthrough.

>>729088069
>By your definition the second half of the game is just Lost Izalith, Tomb of the Giants and Duke's Archives.
Yes.

>>729089847
I feel like finding the asylum revisit is easier than progressing, I know I found it by exploring when I was putting off exploring darkroot or the depths. Firelink seems designed to encourage you to explore it, not to mention player signs.

>>729090973
Finding that you can reach that place is one thing, but to not assume you're missing something and just have to wait a long time to trigger the cutscene is the harder part. Especially if you did the Catacombs first and saw that nothing happens if you stay in the coffin no matter how long unless you have the right item.

>>729088265
>webms
who cares

There's some guy here who posts webms of Dark Souls 2 all day, and one of them is the old knights in Heide Tower who aggro together if you move too far forward. He claims that this makes DS2 better. Well guess what, that's one, scripted enemy encounter, and I'm currently playing through DS2 and every single unscripted enemy does the same shit as in any other FromSoft game: ignoring that you attacked their friends right in front of them unless you walk into their bubble. Earthen Peak is full of it.

Webms don't represent the games accurately, they're almost always cherrypicked footage by autists arguing in bad faith, especially when they're trying to portray something in a negative light.

>>729084771
they didn't finish it properly
oh well, it happens

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Lost Izalith gets the criticism (I think one of the developers said something?) but it's like the 2nd most developed area.

>>729084931
It's fantastic how blighttown is oh god that area while also giving you the most fun you can get out of DS

>>729086656
who cares though lol

>>729088265
>anon is surprised when low int enemy act like a low int enemy

>>729092860
giant puddle of lava full of unfinished enemies, yeah, 2nd most developed area

Because everything up to the lordvessel is a gradual layered mystery that is carefully ordered to inform the player of the world they are exploring. By the time you get the lordvessel and talk to Frampt the player NEEDS to understand the weight of what they are doing. The player needs to be guided through the world and shown the areas of importance and the masters who rule them.
After the lordvessel it's "you know what to do, take this big cup to these four locations (in any order you want) then you can fight the final boss". The writing doesn't need to be interesting anymore

>>729088082
damn this guy fucking sucks

>>729093161
I mean the tomb of the giants area is a ledge and cave with pinwheels. Maybe you could shoot for 3rd if you like drained new londo.

>>729084771
>[The hate is] overblown. I think people dislike it just because of the ability to warp changing the feeling of the game. The only areas that are worse in quality are Lost Izalith and the Demon Ruins, but i. I accidentally rushed through them both, ii. they're really short anyways, and iii, I did them last so they didn't really 'sour' the rest of the second half for me. I do like them conceptually and to a certain extent aesthetically--cities built into rock walls are just really interesting--but the bonfires, the dragon legs, and the frequent bosses caught me off guard. It honestly reminded me of Dark Souls II. Bed of Chaos sucked though. It just wasn't fun. I also died too many times before realizing that the orbs (?) didn't reset, but that can be attributed to me being dumb.

>The other areas are on par with the first half imo, it just becomes somewhat of a different game with the warping ability. Not worse, just different.

>>729085050
This. I don't know which breadtuber started this meme, but I'm tired of people regurgitating it as if its their own idea. It feels like bitter DS2 and DS3 truthers trying to take shots at the more influential game

>>729092860
>Enter area
>Dozens of dragon legs aggro
>After killing them explore the area
>Nothing
>Go upstairs
>Looks pretty cool
>It's just two hallways with basic bitch enemies
They went for a larger scale while simultaniously putting in less than previous areas. It just makes it feel rushed. The squidpit was cool but also empty though

>>729093896
>breadtuber
Unironically Hbomberguy in his defense of DS2

>>729093896
>This. I don't know which breadtuber started this meme, but I'm tired of people regurgitating it as if its their own idea
Youtubers just reguritate whatever the common sentiment of the masses who played the game at the time of release was.

>>729084771
Genuinely the only problem is that you have to turn around and walk back out of anor londo or just tp back to firelink shrine. If the path to dukes was closer to gywnevere’s side and there was a hidden path to new londo deep within anor londo, this complaint wouldn’t even be a thing. It just feels anticlimactic to leave anor londo.

I feel like I can never get tired of watching people play Dark Souls blind.

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>>729089487
lol notice how they cant post one wbem of this game ever being fun or good

>>729094746
I only feel this way if it's their first game in the series, or second after Demon's. People who come from recent games have certain expectations and they never really seem to appreciate the good stuff about it, they're rushing from boss to boss and only talking about difficulty.
When it clicks with someone it's awesome to watch.

>>729084771
>op gets his opinions from ecelebs
why?

>>729087651
>>729088082
>makes webm trying to shit on Dark Souls
>accidentally just shows why the game is better than every game that came after it.
enemies being individually easy isn't bad design, in fact the devs feeling the constant need to make everything "le you will die" hard is why the series keeps feeling worse and worse to play.

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>>729094968
I have a webm showing why DS1 parry is the best in the series, does that count? Not sure what the point of making webms for slow paced RPGs is, but I did make this one for a discussion in a Ninja Gaiden thread.

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>>729095104
enemies being individually easy is why they should at least be challenging in groups. Otherwise all you have is that it's muh good because i'm shit at games.

>>729095192
>this is their best "ds1 is fun" webm
my sides

>>729084771
It falls off when you enter undead burg lmao. I have no idea what people like about that area, it sucks shit. Undead parish is just as bad, they're both nothing but extremely linear and narrow paths full of boring ass enemies. The depths is horrendous too, who the fuck likes a gross dark sewer with fucking basilisks and one of the easiest and most boring bosses in the game. And it leads to blighttown, how fun. It sure is a mystery how people could ever like ds2 or ds3 more than the masterpiece that is ds1

>>729095242
anon, they're common zombie soldiers from the first area, there's no need for them to be dangerous EVER. they just exist to occasionally catch you off guard if they come out from a blind spot or something. Which means they're obviously not gonna be threatening on your 100th playthrough where you've memorized the level layout and know what to watch out for.

>>729084771
what exactly is wrong with duke's archives or catacombs or new londo?

>>729095242
why are you playing slow paced action RPGs to prove that you're good at games? go do 1CC of arcade games instead
is this like the PVE equivalent of how people pretend to be hardcore playing Souls PVP but never touch real fighting games?

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>>729095502
>the enemies dont have to be good

>>729085050
Truth nuke

>>729094968
enemy tracks him and it's bad

>>729095616
enemy doesn't track and it's bad

>>729095519
Why are you playing an action rpg at all when you could just be playing Dear Esther or Barbies Horse Adventure

>>729095515
>wrong with duke's archives
Crystal cave sucks dick
>catacombs
Odd difficulty curve, you don't need to go that direction whatsoever but the difficulty is tuned for something, like, end of Lower Burg/into Blighttown in general level range and weaponry, Pinwheel is also an insultingly easy enough boss that hard focusing him for early kindling and a shot at a Giantdad mask is a good thing to do
>new londo
Kind of a whatever area and it's weird you can access such an enormous difficulty spike at the very beginning, granted I probably never would think to go downwards in Firelink Shrine if I didn't already know that staircase was there

>>729084771
When these games go "open" they suck, once you have the ability to just do whatever you want instead of being guided it just feels so boring. Same reason why Elden Ring is fucking terrible.

Excellent, NGSchizo has found the DS thread. Time for some kino.

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>those are the starter enemies they dont count...

>tfw actually found a good demon's souls retrospective that isnt using the remake for it
https://youtu.be/q28iLsVWM4M

>>729095910
Firelink Conspiracy has a pretty good lore video on it.

>>729095804
elden ring does guide you though, the map literally shows you where to go and what path to take. theres just a ton of shit to see and do if you go off the main path
dark souls 1 does it wrong because it has no sense of guidance at all which kills any sense of progression, its a game where you just wander around and stumble into stuff

>>729095796
>Crystal cave sucks dick
It's literally one of the most striking and memorable areas in the game

>>729095839
Let him talk to himself. He hasn't shat on Sekiro which is surprising when that's the only game he should focus on shitting instead.

>>729096007
It's also a trek of doing nothing but walking on straight-lined beams for a minute before crossing a singular room thats just an empty sphere with nothing but crabs.

>>729096007
>visual design =/= fun to play/well designed
retard ds1 simp

>>729095759
Because they're not good games

>>729096327
>crabs
Retard alert

>>729096003
Just talk to the NPCs bro

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>>729096541
I'm telling you Dark Souls isn't good. Look at this thread

Did modders ever make a good overhaul mod for DS1?

>>729097376
>ring of fog icon in top left
yeah anon there's a reason he isnt aggroing

>>729097376
you should use poison mist and just watch as they die.

>>729086654
this

>>729095796
all of this sounds like subjective shit that could be said about any area of the game

>>729097376
anon...

>>729097687
That's not Ring of Fog. RoF has the thiefs hood as an icon and would visibly make the player transparent.

>>729099757
Well sure "you can go there immediately but you're obviously not meant to because of the hard-wall difficulty spike, giving the illusion of nonlinearity unless you ignore every single enemy" is a global complaint with DS1

"Crystal caves suck" is not a global complaint, nor is "there is no reason to go to the Catacombs whatsoever before you get the Lordvessel but its difficulty is tuned for the earlygame"

>>729084771
because that's when it stops being a journey and becomes a teleportation-fest