>BTFO of the entire industry by answering a question and saying Video Games aren't art>Every western dev spends years trying to refute him >Shigeru Miyamoto says he agrees with Ebert and causes even more butthurt>Dies months before the cinematic craze started taking over gaming>Causes the entire western industry to pivot into making movie games and desperately try to have video games acknowledged as more than just a hobby for children How the fuck did this one critic cause all of this?
Games are not art
If excrement can be art, video games can be art too. Periods.
>>729104864he's right. gamers are insecure and view the category of art as a value judgement for some reason
>people were deluded enough to think Ebert wouldn't have shat all over games like Bioshock Infinite
>>729104864>video games can't be -ack>get cancerkeklmao
>>729104864that's just because western games suck dick; the japanese know how to make art
>>729104864Games are not ar-->weebshit shovelware gets censoredREEEEE MUH ARTISTIC INTEGRITY! IF IT DOESN'T MATTER, WHY CHANGE IT???
Roger Ebert gave them THREE fucking chances to prove him wrong and the dumb fucks chose A meme game about WACO, Braid, and Flower. He ripped them apart in pic related and then said >The three games she chooses as examples do not raise my hopes for a video game that will deserve my attention long enough to play it. They are, I regret to say, pathetic. I repeat: "No one in or out of the field has ever been able to cite a game worthy of comparison with the great poets, filmmakers, novelists and poets."
some games were fine art up until PS3/360/wii era. i'd say very few, though.one example i can give are classic RE games. those camera angles were heavily inspired by the camera angles of the french new wave and film noir eras of film (which existed around the same time). they were considered fresh and new and even avant garde. they were cool amd stylish and they became the standard to this day when filming anything.in RE, those camera angles can hide enemies, items, and can point to where the player needs to go all without saying a word. the showcasing of the surroundings through the camera angles -- as they highlight, pan, and zoom in-out -- can tell bits and pieces of lore. the cool, older police aesthetics come from film noir.mikami gave kamiya around forty movies to watch before directing RE2. still can't believe he was only in his early-mid twenties when he did it. it is, quite literally, movie games done righti'm okay if games are never art, but this one has a basis in fine art and i can't ignore it.another one is how ICO told a classic, evil-mother fairy tale and really made it stand out with its different game mechanics and camera angles to a lesser extent
>>729104864I'm mixed on his opinion but his critique in general wasn't all that special. But I guess that's just the internet in general, you see that a bunch of people out there can outperform him easily but he came out at a time when he didn't have to compete with them.
>talks shit about video games>jaw rots off
>>729104864he still regarded cosmology of kyoto as art, the only true art videogame for the matter (which was honestly based)regardless, the concept of "art" has been diluted and shattered so much in the last 100 years that it's a complete non-argument; vidya absolutely qualifies as art, as it stands nowadays
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_B8X1NegB5k
>>729106228Even Soulja Boy wasn't this mean to Braid damn
>>729105475Correct, they are games. Games > art.
>>729104864Games are meant to be capable of becoming art Not that they are designed as art The biggest example is e33, it's a game designed to be le art and its cringey and ugly
>>729106228Never forgettihttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWqnz-7iQbY
>>729104864gamers are genuinely retarded and think art = good, and not art = bad
Kino
>>729106530>Jonathan Blow is seething because someone doesn't take his game as seriously as he does >Meanwhile Soulja Boy is living it up having fun playing the gameIt's an enigma
>>729104864>>729105475>>729105698>>729105698>>729105698>>729105704>>729105946>>729106032This is the 1,846th time you've made this thread.
The "videogames are art!" crowd are the same retards who don't like to play videogames, popularized cinematic experiences, are obsessed over game awards because they treat the industry like Holywood lite and worship Kojimbo.
>>729106559>>729106741Define artI don't care if games are art or not, it just doesn't seem any definitions can exclude them.
>>729104864Who will play him in the KOTOR Remake?
>>729105946If bioshock infinite was a book in the 1930's every last copy would've been burned
>>729104864Movies are a consumer product and can never be considered art.
If a game is made with soul and love, then it's art.Super Mario 64 is art.Planescape Torment is art.New Pokemon/FIFA/generic gacha shit aren't art.
>>729106228If someone showed me those games I would think vidya is shit too
>>729106814Too bad my post was never about the definition of art, but how the crowd that is hellbent on defining vidya as art only treats videogames as a subset or amalgamation of another artform(s).
>>729104864>I've discovered that most critics themselves are cinematically illiterate. They don't really know much about movies. They don't know the history. They don't know the technology. They don't know anything. So for them to try to analyze it, they're lost.-George Lucas
>>729106964Well in that case 64 isn't art because the game was rushed outMiyamoto wanted 32 levels and the higher ups said no so the game wasn't fully developed with the soul they wantedErgoNot Art
>>729104864t. Some gay nigga
>>729104864Wait, if games aren't art, then that means AI isn't hurting them when it's used
>>729104864It's not a black and white thing, and I'll even give the exception often intentionally ignored to perpetuate this tired "discussion", but one of the strongest reasons I now lean more to Ebert's side overall is because after reading his article about people submitting examples which kept making the fundamental mistake of being mostly about visuals, story or writing strength I've seen many more people since continue to do the same fucking thing, over and over again.I won't say you can just wholesale rip the select scenes, upload it to Youtube and get the same impression as if you were to play the games, most of them anyway, but the point remains if your best impression of a game's strength as art is from text like a book or cutscenes like animation you are inadvertently substantiating his point that the game part is more a side than a main.Like if you were playing some promotional phone during a break between watching a series, the phone game doesn't become elevated from that.Anyway, the exception is stuff like Cosmology of Kyoto where the game proves its art by integrating the choices the player makes with the history and folklore. It's mostly point and click but where you go, who you speak with, what you say, what you do, all that is at once presentation and interaction. If more movie games did that then video games would have more modern examples of an art form, but that sort of thing takes knowledge, creativity and effort whereas it's easier to just churn out a "cinematic experience".Damn shame.
>>729107113Being rushed doesn't mean it's made without care. Some books of Kafka are unfinished
is this pic art?
The same people that call games art are the same type of people that refuse to play the original version of games since they are "outdated" and need to be remade for "modern audiences".Only pseudo-intellectuals feel the need to elevate video games (that they don't even play) to the level of art. Imagine if people were trying to elevate marvel comic books to the same level as a Dostoevsky novel.
>>729104864Can the whole be less than the sum of its parts? Modern video games employ composers for music, visual artists for character designs, writers for storytelling, directors for cutscenes, etc. Each individual element would be instantly recognized as art, but put them all together and suddenly they cease to be art? A strange view on the matter.
>>729107739games usually do this. there's artwork on a deck of cards, but solitaire is still a game and not art
>>729104864Ebert retracted his statement before his death IIRC, and expressed interesting in playing Shadow of the Colossus. I do feel the statement is what caused the movie game trend to go into full swing though. Game journos were clearly hurt by the comment.
>>729107739>Each individual element would be instantly recognized as artOnly by midwits, there is a difference between art and craft.
>>729107739So if I put an opera singer next to a painting, it makes the painting better or viceversa?What if the painting was extremely inferior to the ability of the singer? Does the painting become "less worse" because of it?Your view is even stranger (retarded)
>>729106228this man just seems bitter, why did people care about his opinion?is modern art is art, than considering games are media made from multiple pieces of art, it's fucking artwhy did people listen to some literal who about this and make such a big fuss when logically, anyone could understand that videogames are artmodern art shows are a joke, it's tons of photography and abstract shit that isn't worth the effort or even thought provoking
>>729107715Marvel books weren't made with the ambition of being deep, they were made to entertain. Now if a game or a comic or a manga is made with the ambition and intent of exploring heavy topics seriously, then i don't see why it shouldn't be considered on the same of level of Dostoevsky as far as depth is concerned
>>729106381Isn’t this like the whole point of and intended takeaway from Braid?
>>729104864>art = something that is made/crafted>you make vidya>therefore vidya is artez
>>729107936he also never actually played the games himself, just watched videos/pictures and made up a bunch of bullshit in his mind
>>729104864He was objectively wrong and you boomers just can't stop seething about it.
>>729107094>subset or amalgamation of another artform(s).shit, I guess that only cave paintings are art now
unc thinking his opinion matters :skull:
He's right, and the fact slop that would get laughed out of hollywood like E33 is winning awards proves it
>aRT
>>729106559>art = good, and not art = badThat's precisely how the term is used by everyone when it comes down to it. E.g. cooking is just the mundane preparation of food, something people need to do most days to sustain their continued existence. But do it really well and cooking, too, becomes an "art." It's only natural gamers would want their favorite pastime or at least the really good games regarded as art. Everyone else gets to do it, why shouldn't they?
>>729108680Probably you already did considering that your illiteracy shows you've never finished a single book in your entire life.
>>729107739Anon I just went over this in my tl;dr, if you went into an art museum where for whatever warped reason they made it so whatever paintings, plays and music genres you highly regard play on a big screen, but in order to see and hear it you had to play a brief game of Pong or whatever would you leave saying the Pong game was an artistic masterpiece or a task you went through between getting to experience it?The fact we've only doubled down on compensating at this lack by bloating budgets and dev time to face scan actors, hire celebrity musicians with no familiarity with video game composition and whatever the fuck else I'm filtering from memory to maintain sanity all only cements how rightfully the other fields are in viewing us as sub-intelligent in regards to how our medium has developed compared to theirs.It has to be integrated. Ebert's point was if you play a game where the skill with interacting with the mechanics were separate from the skill in interacting with the media you've manually created the very division you consider strange.In Cosmology of Kyoto you can't just know a bunch of spells by leveling up and grind levels to mindlessly increase your stats until you win without regard for the rest of the presentation, you need to know about Buddhism and Japan to a degree to advance.And what you don't know you can learn, and again unlike a typically cutscene what's learned is applicable to the game not just fluff about how tragic a character's backstory is or whatever.More so it's both art and education. What's strange if not pathetic is it made an effort however many decades ago that studios are unable or unwilling with all the experience and tech since.
>>729109014those people are stupid. bad art can exist and good things that don't fall under art can exist
>>729104864only thing that got btfo was his jaw
Video games are like art museums. They contain art but they themselves are not art.
>>729104864His problem that he tried to judge the game by story/atmosphere/artstyle. So basically he looked at them like at movies or paintings.Games can only be judged by GAMEPLAY. If you can't understand and appreciate nuances of gameplay mechanics then your opinion is irrelevant. It's like asking a deaf person what he thinks about new music album.Here's examples of games that come close to being art when you only judge the gameplay mechanics:MorrowindDwarf FortressUnderrailFinal Fantasy XII
>>729106032Someone make a basedjak out of him
>>729106275>important post goes ignored/v/ as usual.
>>729107385True
>>729107545No, you can tell by the trees immediately that it's AI
>>729108864He's also the sole reason that the industry hard pivoted into wasting hundreds of millions and 8 years to make a 2 hour movie game
>>729110364No, we saw your post samefag, we had no reason to replyIf you really made that post to state your opinion you wouldn't give a shit how many (You)s it got
>>729109214This. It’s why I’d argue that gameplay driven games are closer to being art than most story driven games.>>729110228There are games with fantastic atmosphere and art design though.
If a banana taped to the wall is art....
>>729107094If you can't come up with a definition that excludes video games then you're one of those "video games are art" people you say you hate. Don't sidestep points, it just leaves your idiocy open to all
>>729107327you still fall in your very own argumentvideo games are definitely not only defined by the visuals, the story, or any side artistic thing. the point is the gameplay itself, the way you interface with the player character and his/her world, or how you interact with the systems of the game yourself. it's way more personal than you think, and the real reason why everyone on 4chan keeps putting gameplay above everything else. approaching games without this in mind is plain wrong, as games all in all are the sum of all these parts.personally, action games have already surpassed any other kind of action in fiction, because YOU are the one experiencing, performing the moves and the script. it also marries very well with cinematic storytelling
Well maybe a switch 2 game can prove him wrong
>>729104864>No games are artPlayStation took this to heart and made 3 pieces of art with no games
>>729104864It doesn't have to be art, it can just be for entertainment and that's it. Looking for deeper meaning and artistry in video games is boring. Its just to turn your mind off for a bit and be entertained. The same thing with film, but film can be art, video games I dont think they can be.
>>729104864>>BTFO of the entire industry*by
>>729110942KWAB
>>729112308Keeeek
>>729104864Sure videogames can be art. Anything can be art. Video games are just very shit, derivative art, typically written by people who were rejected from all of the more highly regarded forms of media. That'd why I typically just prioritize gameplay over story because there's very few, if any games with a story on par with bottom of the barrel TV shows. Just because it's not viewed highly in an artistic way, doesn't mean they can't be fun. That's why we play video games right?
>>729104864>50 different artforms put into one>each one an art on their own>none of them are art anymore when put togethermake it make sense
WTF IS WRONG WITH HIS HEAD
>>729108285My takeaway from Braid is that somehow, no one has still made an animation of the princess getting dressed in world 1.
>>729106228Should have shown him Space Funeral
>>729104864Faggot should have spent his last few years cosplaying as Trap-Jaw while he's the only biological male to have worn down his jaw from sucking soo much nigger cock!!!FACT!!!
>>729112334You just never played deep games
>>729104864this nigga dead
>>729104864Would you listen to Asmongold if he said movies weren’t art?Ebert didn’t play any video games. Just commenting on them at all only revealed ignorance on his part.
>>729104864>Millennials not realizing Ebert has been dead so long and his time of any fame so passed that many in Gen Z would just reply to this with "Who tf is Roger Ebert?"
>>729104864This dude sounds pretentious as all fuck. Imagine putting multiple hours into a project videogame, and some old dickhead comes over and goes "HUR DUR ITS NOT ART LMAO"Like brother, if you put time, effort, knowledge and sweat into a job, hobby, or whatever, that is art. I don't need some dipshit old boomer to tell me what art is and isn't
>>729104864Is this the guy who rated prometheus and covenant 10/10 and thought 1979 Alien was mid?
>>729107327>if your best impression of a game's strength as art is from text like a book or cutscenes like animation you are inadvertently substantiating his point that the game part is more a side than a main.what about interactive art installations? are they, as a whole, not art because of the itneractive part? or is it still art because the parts you interact with are art? or is the interactivity itself a form of art? remember, gameplay is interaction.
>Roger EbertIf you were 10 when he died you'd be out of college now.
>>729104864Games are art but they're better when faggots don't consider them so.Movie"game" sloppa is a plague upon the medium, and it's what happens when midwit wannabe movie directors get control over a video game project and attempt to cater to artfags. Because these unimaginative retards think that a game being art = must copy the movies. It's pathetic.
>>729109281Nope a painting stops belonging to the artistic medium the moment I decide I don't like it.
>>729113706I think most people who are seriously into movies know who he is regardless of age. He’s probably the most famous critic to have ever lived.>>729113772He was extremely biased against horror movies and gave lots of them mid scores, even the great ones. He was more of an arthouse guy.
