>>729137080Says who? I just finished panzer dragoon and shit was cash.
>>729137080I would like to know this as well.It can't be that hard or expensive to make another StarFox, or Sin & Punishment, or Panzer Dragoon. But for some reason it's even more dead than the RTS genre.
>>729137080Seems like they kind of died in 5th gen didn't they. Several great ones in 5th gen, and then almost nothing.Probably videogames going mainstream and mass market expectations for more normalcore games pushing out taste for something really tight and focused on score.
>>729137080I sorta liked Starfox but it always pissed me off how you could only "kinda" move the ship by aiming. >Twin stick rail shooters? maybe have to align both ship and guns to hit certain parts / actually have accuracy.
>>729138171Score is still used in games today. But people no longer want to play games to make an arbitrary number go up without some form of progression-based reward for those scores. Rudimentary example, but all those "launch" games on flash sites many years ago exemplifies this.
>>729137080Aren't they usually short and repetitive? If a game costs over $40 people expect 100+ hours of content.
>>729137080People now are obsessed with how many hours of new content you can get in a game. Rail shooters are usually short and have replay value, but a lot of people want new content. So outside of indies it doesn't make much sense to make them. Doesn't help Star Fox Zero was a train wreck
>>729137080this shit gets boring before the first stage is over
>>729138476jit boring ahh unc, 3 minute long ahh level bruh I can watch 8 tiktoks in that timespan goofy
>>729138402Of course score still exists in games today, but only gamers care about it. Normalfags just care about "the experience"
>>729138402You say that, but people love their cookie clicker and Roblox farming games.Those players don't want to put the work into high scores, it has to be a passive thing.
They take skill and clever design to make funWhy bother when you can just make something simple like roll slop instead
>>729137080For some reason a lot people who play video games don't like when a game is too gamey. The result is genre that revel in old school game tropes end up rather unpopular and niche.
>>729138419Games like StarFox and StarFox 64 have inherit replayability built into them without having to resort to autistic meta progression found in all the shitty modern roguelites. Most missions can be completed in different ways. High scores reward you with medals, which unlocks more content. Levels can be played in different orders. A single playthrough may only be an hour but a replay taking a different route or getting a better score takes just as long. Especially in modern days where the average person only has a couple hours to spend on a game per day at most, short games with high replayability are generally pretty favorable.
>>729138578>For some reason a lot people who play video games don't like when a game is too gamey.Normies and women have permanently destroyed the video game industry.
>>729138578The problem is these gamey games you speak of are one dimensional garbage. Holding down a button is only so fun for so long.
>>7291385785th gen was arguably the turning point. 3D cinematic experiences brought in a lot of non-gamers. Metal Gear Solid and Ocarina of Time are great games of course, but they eeked out taste for arcade games.
>>729137080because they only existed due to hardware limitations making impossible to actually fly the plane/ship. same reason text-based RPGs are dead.
>>729138686Brainlet take
>>729138593Branching missions structure is underused
>>729138673Pac-Man (1980) has significantly more complexity than your favorite FromSoftware title.
>>729137080>full price for a game that is less then 8 hrs long
>>729137080By being both extremely linear and very short, they basically died off when the arcades did.
Too complex for the average indie dev to try and make, but not lucrative enough for any other developer to spend money on when they can just make another FPS instead
>>729138768You don't even believe this.
>>729138745That's because most games are too long. If Star Fox was a 10+ hour game having a dozen different routes that you could only access on a fresh playthrough would be obnoxious but because you can beat it in an hour or two, that degree of variety and choice is a pleasant novelty instead of a slog.
>>729138973But I do. Go read the document on Pac-Man AI behavior and tell me it's an easier game to figure out compared to Dark Souls.
>>729138981Well I mean... visual novels do that and they don't have that problem.
>>729137080Post some rail shooters bitches I need something to play, and it needs to be on Steam
>>729139168>needs to be on SteamHouse of the Dead 1 & 2 Demake
Krystal Ball
>>729139137You aren't replaying visual novels without turning off 'skip unseen' and then holding Ctrl, quit pretending.
>>729137682>>729138171>>729137080Samefaggotry
>>729139246
>>729138593It doesn't exactly take long to optimize star fox. Or any "rail shooter" for that matter. And when you consider this it becomes obvious why they are dead.
>>7291370801) Sin and Punishment 2 perfected the genre1.5) The other rail-shooters on Wii also helped perfect the genre.2) Rail shooters thrive on spectacle and interestingly designed setpieces that have to look good and play well. These require a high asset amount, which is harder for broke indie devs to produce without compromise.3) Rail-shooters never had an arcade culture like shmups or gallery shooters or light gun games did. They were always more console focused. 4) The great purge of A and AA developers during the 360/PS3 generation 5) None of the major publisher companies took advantage of VR to make a rail shooter using an existing IP when the platform itself literally screams "MAKE A RAIL-SHOOTER WITH ME!"6) PS Move and Kinects failure means that Wii rail-shooters never got their deserved ports to larger audiences and previous rail-shooters never got out on XBLA/PSNAnything I'm missing?
>>729139359underage redditor trying to appear knowledgable
>>729139246Retard.
>>729139341Doesn't take long to optimize most roguelites either, yet the indie scene keeps shoveling that shit out by the dozens.
>>729139359>1) Sin and Punishment 2 perfected the genreI like that game but idk about this. In fact part of the whole appeal of the Sin and Punishment games is that they straddle many genres. >1.5) The other rail-shooters on Wii also helped perfect the genre.Besides ports of arcade games I can't think of any examples. What games are there? Genuinely asking.
>>729139489>Besides ports of arcade games I can't think of any examples.Capcom had an RE rail-shooter duologyDead Space had a raill-shooter gameHouse of the Dead got a new rail-shooter entryand the entire rest of pic related
>>729138378This was sort of what they tried with star fox zero... it was done kind of weirdly there and there's definitely other ways but that game soured the entire industry on the concept unfortunately.
>>729139340He'll just accuse you of shopping or using tools, don't argue with samefag accusers it's a reddit argument anyways
>>729138716actual historically literate take. you're a zoomed who thinks "low poly" was a design choice.
>>729139230hot af
>>729139708I've played or know of most of these. I'm pretty sure Gunslingers, Dino Strike, Reload, Top Shot Arcade, and Attack of the Movies are basically shovelware tier. Ghost Squad, the House of the Dead 2 & 3 pack, Target Terror, the Gunblade/L.A. Machineguns pack, and Big Buck Hunter are ports of arcade games. Not positive, but pretty sure Medal of Honor Heroes 2 and Ghost Recon are weird hybrid ports/remixes of Xbox 360/PS3 titles. This leaves the Resident Evil Chronicles duo, House of the Dead Overkill, and Dead Space Extraction which I know is a proper fleshed out lightgun shooter title.There's the problem thoughThese are all lightgun games. With the exception of Sin and Punihsment, which straddles several gameplay genres, none of these are the same genre as titles like Panzer Dragoon and Star Fox 64. There is some confusion about the genre names, to be fair. Lightgun games are in 3D and on rails, and I've seen people call them rail shooters. I've also seen people call games like Sin and Punishment and Star Fox 64 Harrier-likes. But I don't think the thread is about lightgun games.
>>729137080Rail shooters dying (and moving to being indie only) alongside non-bullet-hell shmups only makes sense as both grew from hardware limitations (and copying arcade games) and people would rather just go wherever instead of being forced to fly/walk in a line.
>>729140440Don't pretend to be old.
>>729137080The rambo game killed them
>>729139708Literally nothing here is worth playing.Basically all the home light gun shooters, and most "ports" of arcade versions, were terrible. The Wii especially was fucking awful, Umbrella chronicles and it's sequel were worse than the 4 gun survivor games that came before them (okay, they weren't rail shooters, but still).>>729140484Light gun games are a style of rail shooter. You can make the argument for 3 categories, "pure" rail shooter games like afterburner and space harrier that have a player character you move around, positional gun games with a joystick like Rez (I can't think of any other third person positional titles) and LA machineguns, and light gun games like HotD and Time Crisis.
>>729140497translation: fucking casuals ruined gaming
>>729140497>being forced to fly/walk in a line.I'd say it's more like the game doing it automatically. Which is a major part of the appeal to me.
>>729140631>You can make the argument for 3 categoriesNah. Lightgun games and rail shooters are pretty distinct genres.
>>729137080Modern games are typically built around having some kind of side gameplay to break the monotony of fulfilling the main objective (cooking, crafting, fishing, ect). Rail shooters are very one note and don’t really lend themselves to this design philosophy.
Rail shooters are appealing as arcade games for children and casuals to play for 15 minutes at mallsThey're too short and repetitive for anyone to actually justify buying and playing for more than 5 hours, even as a kid I was disappointed with pic related for not letting me explore like the other resident evil gamesThere's people with autism to replay the same game hundreds of times for high scores but they're a small minority, so there's not enough demand for these games
>>729141080>(cooking, crafting, fishing, ect)And unironically nobody wanted or asked for that shit. I play Doom to shoot demons, not craft fishing poles.
>>729140631>and most "ports" of arcade versions, were terribleGhost Squad and the House of the Dead 2 & 3 pack are great for what they are. Dead Space: Extraction was also pretty great original title. Gets overlooked because it seems like the 360 game's shovelware cousin, but it's a really fleshed out and well polished rail shooter.
>>729141136Yeah, and modern Doom has side content based on glory kills, challenge sigils, finding weapon upgrades and upgrading those weapon upgrades with challenge points.A good rail shooter would be something like Kid Icarus, with a bunch of side minutiae side content to pad out the replayability factor.
>>729137080Rail shooters belong in arcades
>>729141080>modern games are shitFTFY>>729141095There's a real difference between the quarter eater design of most lightgun games, and a 3D rail shooter like Star Fox or Sin and Punishment. The latter share overlap with SHMUPS and bullet hell games design-wise and are usually much more fun to replay.
>>729137080Rail shooters were always more of an arcade genre bound by the need to have simplified gameplay because of hardware or play-setting reasons (arcades demand simple games)There's a reason why people keep talking about making Star Fox but like Ace Combat.
>>729141142I was talking in general, but the Wii versions of all of these games are awful because the wiimote is an incredibly poor imitation of a light gun, even the fucking PS move was a better attempt. Dolphin is such a dogshit emulator that the built in latency makes all of these games unplayable to this day, which is fine because none of them are really worth playing, I long for the day Xbox emulation gets better so I no longer have to play a dogshit version of Ghost Squad (thank god for evolution). HotD 3 has a much better port on PC, and 2 has model 2 emulation.
>>729141443>the wiimote is an incredibly poor imitation of a light gunNo.
>>729141525You've never used an actual light gun, have you? 2 point tracking is insanely inaccurate.
The conversations around "Why aren't there more games like Star Fox 64" vs. "Why aren't there more lightgun games" are two very different conversations about two very different genres.
>>729141585All you're telling me is that you had a bad setup.
this game truly represents a very old fashioned way of thinking in the video game business. clearing all the meaningful things to do in it takes a whole few hours, and then it becomes a useless brick. yet for some reason the credits last almost as long as playing through the damn thing. so audacious. games like this cannot get away with it let alone succeed anymore. maybe as a 5 buck throwaway indie, but it's not acceptable as a 60-70 dollar product for home consoles from a big developer.
>>729141684All you're telling me is that you don't understand anything about light guns, and think moving a cursor around a screen by waggling is the same thing. There is no set up where you can make 2 point tracking work.
>>729137080CRT tvs don't get manufactured anymore therefore light guns don't work on new systems therefore there's no easy way to play rail shooters the way they were meant to be played
Kid Icarus Uprising was so much better than anything else anyone ever did that all the other railshooter devs gave up
I wish this game had a sequel or at least some indie spiritual successor. Assault had its issues but I think with some polishing you could make a great game over a good one
Just to clarify this >>729141641Really obvious difference: Lightgun games are in first person. Yes you're "on rails" in the sense that you're moving down a predefined track, but your viewing angle stops whenever it's time to shoot, and you're presented with a static screen. The challenge comes in the form usually of having to shoot enemies or hazards before they damage your health with an attack. These are very stop and start experiences. Rail shooters are in third person, your viewpoint is constantly moving, and part of the challenge is in dodging obstacles and projectiles. >>729141841Cool story, but if you've set it up properly, the only difference is in miliseconds of lag and the shape/weight of the lightgun vs. a wii remote. If you're using a small tv, set up your sensor bar too far or too close, or have light interference, sure it'll seem worse than a lightgun. Otherwise it's completely negligible unless you're a hypersensitive lightgun autist.
GoldenEye was supposed to be a rail shooter at one point.
I have a suspicion that rail shooters would be popular again if it got a revival. It fits the genz and Gen alpha style of game with short bursts so they don't lose interest
>>729141897Too bad its stuck to 3DS. Felt like it should have been ported to Switch.
>>729142038This is a game that could be served by a good remake/remaster. Really the only problem with it is the on-foot controls not having enough polish.
>Whisker Squadron comes out>Roguelite rail shooter>Not a bad proof of concept of it>Doesn't take the whole thing far enough>Probably will forever feel half bakedshame
>>729141831It's an exhilarating ride from start to finish (with the exception of a few low points like sector Z) with actual replay value. Seems to me the issue is more on modern devs failing to deliver on those aspects.
>>729142091>Really obvious difference:REZ exists and defies your third person rule.>>729142091>but if you've set it up properlyYou cannot set it up properly. The tech is fundamentally limited, this is like saying an IMU with no drift correction will work fine as long as you recalibrate it on the table every 3 minutes of play. It won't, it'll drift like a fucking madman. I use one that is drift corrected every 90th of a second and it still doesn't have the greatest accuracy, 2 point camera tracking will never even be slightly feasible for any application beyond picking up star bits in bing bing wahoo.
>>729142145Agreed. I don't know why they went in a different direction with command or zero. You had a solid formula to build on
>>729138973I mean, it sounds a bit exaggerated and honestly I don't fully know if I agree, but I think it's a lot closer than this reply is suggesting.
>>729137080It's a genre that works best for arcades and not so much for home releases
Oh AND ANOTHER THING >>729142091Lightgun games very obviously have a hardware limitation, where you need a lightgun or a wii remote, or a playstation move controller, or a VR motion controls headset, etc. etc. So the answer as to why lightgun games aren't more popular obviously factors in the fact that you have to buy extra hardware, as opposed to a 3D rail shooter you can play with a controller.
>>729138674>Metal Gear Solid and Ocarina of Time are great games of courseFuck you.>>729138578>people who play video games don't like when a game is too gamey.Normalniggers don't play video games, they watch movie games
>>729142238>REZ exists and defies your third person rule.And Star Wars Rebel Assault II exists and defies my "all lightgun games are in first person rule". So we have on exception to each rule. But as a general rule all lightgun games are in first person. The action stops and starts between screens full of enemies you have to clear. Rail shooters, in general, are in third person and the camera is constantly moving.
>>729142862>The action stops and starts between screens full of enemies you have to clear.If you actually looked, most titles have the camera constantly moving, but sure, there are occasional static screens. Games like Rail Chase and LA Machineguns are constantly moving, though. The correct definition is far simpler. In a pure rail shooter, you move the player and he has a hitbox. In a light gun game, you don't move the player. Now, this still falls apart a bit, there are games like Lucky and Wild and the Gun Survivor series that offer player movement, but it's better than insisting every light gun game is just a shooting gallery.
unc playin he ganes were he cane move skullemoji
>>729137080Mainstream industry doesn't really like arcade style shooters and beat em ups where you're expected to play a short campaign over and over again. It's light on story and you're expect to get good and most people can't.
>>729142145The on foot controls are pretty good if you use the dual stick control type. It's really weird that being able to move and aim at the same time was hidden in the options menu instead of being the default.
>>729143197>If you actually looked, most titles have the camera constantly movingNot when you have to shoot.
>>729143456>you're expect to get good and most people can't.This is the answer
>>729143516>Not when you have to shoot.It depends on the game. It's pretty common for light gun games to throw in camera shake to make it harder to hit the enemy. Most pure rail shooter boss fights are effectively static too, even if sometimes the background is still scrolling, without map hazards you might as well not even be moving.
>>729138536>but people love their cookie clicker and Roblox farming games.he said without some form of progression-based reward
>>729139359>5) None of the major publisher companies took advantage of VR to make a rail shooter using an existing IP when the platform itself literally screams "MAKE A RAIL-SHOOTER WITH ME!"couldn't you argue beat saber's a rail shooter, and that's massively popular
>>729139168The best rail shooters are on emulator. not steam.(You can run emulators through steam if you want)Vampire Night (PCSX2)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_v9lQcXSCkSin & Punishment: Star Successor (Dolphin) (BEST GAME EVER)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZT8xWLYy2fQCarnEvil (MAME)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UU7i4OslHxYDEADSTORM PIRATES (RPCS3)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzy76Qx5RsoDeath Crimson OX (FlyCast)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDxEGgS6se4And of course House of the Dead 2+3 on Dolphin.In all of these you can map your mouse to be the gun pointer.
>>729143654>t's pretty common for light gun games to throw in camera shake to make it harder to hit the enemy.Oh yea. Camera shake. Really disproving my comparison of the genres there.
Are there any multiplayer competitive rail shooters? Not the SF64 free roam kind.
>>729137080So did Andross ever actually look like this thing? or is that just due to NES limitations.
>>729145638Camera shake, zoom, pan, all things not found in pure rail shooters, which usually have very static camera movement.
>>729147301not really there is run and stop sections like House of the Dead 1.but there's also many parts in later rail shooters where you're just constantly moving and shooting. shooting during a camera pan, shooting during a running segment, shooting during a sliding/Vehicle segment.The camera often is not static. just "stable"
