hi anons about to play ds2 for first time but ive heard conflicting stuff, which version is better?
>>729137791Play vanilla first>whyVanilla was designed as a whole: the levels, the enemy placements, and the item placements. SotFS changes things for the sake of changing things, and these changes range from mildly interesting (for example, Pursuer spawning at two points in Lost Bastille, the dull ember being placed earlier in the game), to annoying (Black Gulch's second bonfire being arbitrarily blocked by a petrified hollow for no other reason than to force you to burn the branch of yore at the beginning of the level), to frustrating (many of the enemy and item placement changes to list, which are the meat and potatoes of progression). Vanilla IS Dark Souls 2, whereas SotFS is like DS2's equivalent to OoT Master Quest. It's a remix, not an objective improvement.>but AldiaWas added to vanilla.>but the graphicsAre worse in SotFS. There are some minor improvements to textures, but they're outweighed by two terrible changes:1. There's an ugly post-process LUT applied to the game, giving it a sickly green tint.2. The brightness and contrast were raised with no regard for how it affects highlights, leading to loss of detail in many areas. See timestamp: https://youtu.be/_2XwOoo40iY?t=125You're free to play SotFS, but vanilla contextualizes its changes. SotFS being an improvement over vanilla is one of the most commonly regurgitated falsehoods in the entire Dark Souls community. I have no idea why it's repeated to this day, it has no basis in fact.
>>729137791scholar obviouslywhy would you ever not play the improved version
>>729138679>long response with evidence>>729138714>a sentence that explains nothingalright, i'm playing Scholar, thank you
>>729138679Ty anon I’ve only ever played scholar seems like a good time to do a replayAnything you’d suggest looking out for?
>>729138679Vanilla is the one that has all the gank squads and random enemy placements that don't make sense in the lore that everyone complains about though?
>>729137791Scholar felt like an improvement to me in every way except for the weird fragrant branch of yore statue placements that only served to make the game feel more linear. Dragon Shrine in particular was a highlight.
>>729139056They're both guilty of retarded enemy placement desu, just in different ways.
>>729138679nta but i don't like how scholar basically removed lightning from areas, here's vanilla ds2 showing the torch light up the surrounding area. in scholar version, there is no light
>>729139129scholar version, torch hollow got no light around himweird change desu
>>729139129What the fuck this area is practically glowing in scholar this actually looks like a dark forest
>>729139081Not really. Scholar has actual thought put into the placement, aggro range, AI, etc. Just looking at the first open room in forest of giants with the sleeping hollows of both games should immediately tell you which version cares about the level design more.
>>729139197Is it original or scholar that has the white knight under the tree? That version is better.
>>729139420original version got the heide knight sitting at the tree
>>729138957Not really, no. I'm currently playing vanilla after playing* way too much SotFS, but I don't know if there's anything that improves the experience other than the analog stick deadzone fix (which I believe can be fixed through community controller presets on Steam). SotFS has DS2 Lighting Engine. I think the mod is easily the preferred way to play SotFS, although I don't know if my early presets are still maintained by the author, and I can't speak to the quality of the new ones. They're probably good.These >>729139129 >>729139170 screenshots very clearly show what the fuck is wrong with SotFS. I have no idea what FromSoft's obsession with this green post-process filter is, but it's in multiple of their games and it looks like shit every time. But it's not just the filter, there's so many shit changes to SotFS's rendering and lightning. Baffling stuff.>>729139081This. Vanilla's enemy placement is better on average.
>>729139420That's the worse one, in base DS2 it is just an open room with a bunch of aggro'd hollows running at you and a random out of place knight.
>>729139197why would you bring up FoFG when it's full of asinine enemy changes in Scholar>the ogre at the beginning that adds nothing and is simply placed there because it's "different">the additional hollow hiding in the first real combat encounter so you get jumped by 2 instead of 1>the obnoxious firebomb fucker by the big treeand the piece de resistance>the big sword you walk up to pick up an item, which has 2 enemies in vanilla (one visible, one that ambushes you from behind), but like fucking 5 or 6 enemies ambushing you from behind in scholar
>>729139525in base DS2 it's>you climb the ladder>you are attacked by one hollow immediately>two other weak hollows wake up while you're fighting the first>a third starts shooting you with arrows from the upper level>there's a fourth laying on the ground by the fog gate on the opposite side of the room, which won't wake up if you don't walk over therei would know considering i played it 3 times recently. it's perfectly fine, all you need to do is kill the first hollow and then back up slightly so you're in any of the areas where the archer above can't shoot you. it's just a remix of the first real combat encounter in DS1 where a hollow warrior above you throws firebombs while you fight 2 enemies below.
>>729137791do not believe his lies>>729138679Scholar is a slightly morr gamified experience, but is more fun and engaging than vanilla. It also objectively looks better, not sure what he's memeing about
both games got strengths and weaknesses but i come back to original version of ds2 because the skybox and lightning of majula and heide is nicer.
>>729139628>the ogre at the beginning that adds nothing and is simply placed there because it's "different"Optional difficult knight fight in base game? That's kino level design. Optional difficult fight in Scholar? Garbage waste of time addition. Makes sense to me.>the additional hollow hiding in the first real combat encounter so you get jumped by 2 instead of 1An ambush tutorial in a dark souls game, obviously a garbage idea. You're totally right.>the obnoxious firebomb fucker by the big treeAn enemy being annoying isn't criticism.>but like fucking 5 or 6 enemies ambushing you from behind in scholarKill the enemies before sprinting at the loot. Or failing that, learn your lesson for next time and don't be greedy in the future.All of these things you're complaining about are just fair teaching moments early in the game to prepare the player, this is the same stuff that makes Firelink Shrine such a good starting area in DS1 too. Are you also going to complain about the hollow on the ladder who punishes players for just sprinting past everything to teach them not to do that?
>>729139958scholar example, brightness set to lowest and im still bombarded with nuclear lightning
>>729139837>It also objectively looks betterwould you care to comment on >>729139170or maybe the how the increased contrast absolutely rapes the anti-aliasing here https://youtu.be/_2XwOoo40iY?t=65>>729139985you can't kill the enemies before sprinting to the loot because they're on a ledge directly above the giant sword, hidden from view, and only drop down when you go out onto the sword. you don't know what the fuck you're talking about lmao>>729140021this is clearly ludokino, sir
>>729139958same location but scholar edition, prefer original version its more.. somber (?) and overall nicer
>>729138679I think the SotFS enemy placements and lore are more cohesive and make more sense than the vanilla ones. The most standout example is Dragon Aerie and Dragon Shrine. When you reach the area, Emerald Herald tells you that the Ancient Dragon will welcome you, but in vanilla you still have to fight your way past all the nesting dragons and the Drakekeepers, which doesn't feel very welcoming. In Scholar, you're given a straight shot to bypass the Dragon Aerie, and the way up the Shrine is a series of 1v1 duels against the Drakekeepers, enforced by Dragon Knights, who will mob you if you disrespect the duel. This feels more like you are actually welcomed, but still have to prove your strength to see the Ancient Dragon.Other examples: In Vanilla there is a Flexile Sentry in Shaded Woods for no good reason, in Scholar it is moved to Sinner's Rise, which makes more sense because it's a prison guard. In Vanilla there's Heide Knights everywhere except Heide's Tower, in Scholar they are in Heide's Tower. In Scholar there is a better selection of enemies from all over Drangleic in Drangleic Castle, because the seat of the crown should have representatives from all its domains. In Scholar wearing the King's Ring prevents Drangleic Castle's defenses from activating. Scholar adds Syan Knights and Dragon Riders protecting things that are important to King Vendrick. There's more, but we'd be here all day.
>>729139985>Optional difficult knight fight in base game? That's kino level design. Optional difficult fight in Scholar? Garbage waste of time addition. Makes sense to me.yes, you fucking moron. did you even play DS2?the heide knight in the base game is an analogue to ds1's black knights, and is worth fighting because he is guaranteed to drop his sword. in contrast, DS2 turned heide knights into generic enemies (that do not respawn if killed enough) and made their drops RNG. it makes it easier to get their armor, but it's still unlikely you'll do so before they stop respawning.what does the newly added ogre in SotFS drop? a soul of a proud knight and a titanite shard. amazing. we lost a bespoke enemy encounter that has a guaranteed drop of an early game FAI weapon with lightning damage and traded it for an enemy that actually drops a unique item in the tutorial area (a ring), but nothing in FoFG because it's so wacky and different to mix up the enemies LOL.
>>729140258Additionally:There's also a lot of bullshit or frustrating encounters in Vanilla that are corrected in SotFS. The Sinner's Rise bonfire used to have archers in range of it, so you could get shot at while standing next to it. Straid's room also used to be full of very annoying enemies all of whom you had to kill to talk to the merchant. The only place that's arguably worse in SotF is Iron Keep, and that's debatable. SotFS also adds significantly more environmental interactivity, such as more uses for the torch and exploding barrels in Lost Bastille. No Man's Wharf in particular benefits immensely from the improved lighting, greater interactivity, and better enemy placements, taking it from one of the worst areas in Vanilla to one of the best in Scholar.Progression is also better in SotF, as there's more flexibility in where you can go at the start of the game, and you can get access to the Ember much sooner.As for graphics, the best way to enjoy DS2 if you want it to look pretty is SotFS with DS2 Lighting Engine, it's absolutely gorgeous.
>>729137791play vanilla. just a heads-up ds2 has incredibly low weapon durability so you should ideally keep 2-3 upgraded weapons on you at all times. it's not like dark souls 1 where you can upgrade 1 weapon and just stick with it
>>729140347>>729140283I'll concede that Lost Wharf is objectively a hundred times better (crazy that there's no shortcut in vanilla) and that a few of the enemy additions like the Syan knights are nice, but in terms of gameplay I find SotFS to be consistently worse than vanilla - with a few exceptions like Undead Crypt being better in SotFS.>progression is also better in SotFSThis is I disagree with, although getting the ember earlier is nice.
>>729139129the scholar version has such better programming that they ran out of space for light emitting torches
>>729140053You can trigger their aggro and backpedal, or you know used ranged attacks because there's more options than running forward with a GS. Actually engage with the gameplay mechanics, hell you're both assuming it's even bad design to have that many in the first place based on nothing.>>729140283>generic enemies (that do not respawn if killed enough)Just like every single regular enemy in the game. Join the company of champions, you retard.
Scholar is generally better but it has such a fucked up difficulty curve. It peaks in difficulty at the Iron Keep for some reason meanwhile they made Drangleic Castle a cakewalk even though that area should be hard.
>>729140579sotfs iron keep manages to be both incredibly annoying and boring at the same time. god forbid you die.
>>729140283>st, DS2 turned heide knights into generic enemies (that do not respawn if killed enough) and made their drops RNGsaying this shit is basically conveniently ignoring the lonely heide knights that were kept and simply moved
should replay ds2 and try to kill poison enemies with my poison broadsword and poison arrows while being in champions covenant and complain about difficulty of the game
>>729140823sorry i meant falchion, heehee!
>>729140283You are very likely to get all the Heide Knight gear in Heide's Tower of Flame before you've killed all of the Knights 12 times. However, even if you don't, you can join Covenant of Champions to turn off enemy despawning, and then leave it when you're done farming. The Heide Knight set is one of the drippiest in the whole game, so it was a crime that you couldn't farm it in Vanilla. They're also fun to fight, so it's great that in Scholar you can fight them repeatedly.As for the Heide Knight in Forest of Fallen Giants, I think giving the players his sword at such an early point was bad for the progression curve, so it's good he was removed. What's more, he got replaced by one of the funnest and most iconic encounters in the entire Dark Souls trilogy: The hollow infantry ambush around the lone tree, which is absolutely fantastic. Accidentally aggroing every enemy in that clearing and still pulling off a win is one of my fondest DS2:SotFS memories.The ogre in Forest is just there to give you an easy way to farm some souls at the start of the game. You can ignore him, you can fight him, you can farm him. It's convenient.
>>729140862>>729140823It's actually insane to me that his review was taken seriously at allSoulsfaggots deserve their games being streamlined into bossrushes where you can just ignore everything and head to the fog gates. God forbid you "got ganked", only 1v1 encounters for all the retards unable to play with an unlocked camera. Fuck.
>>729141110some old ladies told me i was gonna die though>prepare to die editioni-ignore it>made up quote from michaelzaki about difficultyignore it i said
>>729141110Happens all the time. You also have that Mauler critique of the critique of the video where his evidence of gank squads in Scholar is clips of someone who obviously intentionally got the attention of every enemy in the forest of giants tree room and then ran back to the entrance to make it look like they all ran at him. That doesn't even happen in either version of the game and no one who played either of the two should have been fooled, but people still quote Mauler's arguments to this day.
>>729138881wait what?
>>729139628>>the big sword you walk up to pick up an item, which has 2 enemies in vanilla (one visible, one that ambushes you from behind), but like fucking 5 or 6 enemies ambushing you from behind in scholarThe sword gank is easier in Scholar. In Vanilla it's 3 Hollow Soldiers: One of them spear and shield at the top of the sword, one with a two-handed sword who drops from the ledge, and one with a sword and shield who comes up form the bottom. You are very likely to still be dealing with spear and shield guy when you get the two-handed sword shoved up your rear. In Scholar it's 4 Hollow Infantry, who are way easier enemies than Hollow Soldiers, and they all drop from the ledge and come up the sword instead of boxing you in with one at the top and two coming up from the bottom.
Just play SOFTS and if you really like the game then play the OG version too, I played both but honestly I don't have as strong as an opinion on this as some anons ITT.
>>729137791Both are fine.I think I prefer vanilla. The enemy placements feel more organic. SOTFS adds enemy variety, but it can seem more hamfisted and overboard, and unimmersive. SOTFS is a fun remix mod.
>>729141180Oh yeah I forgot how he psyopped hundreds of thousands into believing "difficulty was never the point" lmaoSeriously if we're gonna shit on game journos for misuderstanding basic game mechanics and intentionally misleading people or outright lying, these faggot youtuber essayists should be held to the same standard. My favorite part is when ds3 came out and I expected these niggers to criticise it for the same pitfalls ds2 fell into, but instead only got praised for playing it safe and ripping off bloodborne. Not following up on ds1's interconnective design? Only a problem in ds2 apparently,ds3 can get away with ditching ds1's design vision since it put some redundant shortcuts every other level. Ds3's initial reception redpilled me on fromfags, it's like people wanted ds2 to fail but couldn't bring themselves to do the same for ds3
>>729141602DS3 is DS2 with better levels and bosses
>>729141602DS3's linearity sucks, it shits on what was supposedly so good about the first game. And if Dark Souls came out today 90% of modern souls fags would hate it because it's too slow and too clunky and not mindless enough
>>729137791Play Scholar.This >>729138679 anon WOULD have been correct - but, unfortunately, he forgets one very important thing - there is no vanilla DS2 - this game had been remade before it had even been completed.The original was about certain character doing certain actions, that would've end up in you time-travellling and meeting certain characters at different time periods. Remake (what that anon calls "vanilla") has most of the game half-scrapped and, well, remade - and the name of the game is now "memory".Although things like enemy placement will be more appropriate compared to Scholar, they still aren't what they were supposed to be, heavily. So i recommend to play SotFS first - it creates rather unusual atmosphere and fits "the game, that never came out without mods" better. Only thing i recommend is to use reshade to tone down lights, otherwise things like fading evening in Tower of Flames would look like bright day. Not that it would look bad, especially as SotFS, as i have mentioned above, creates its own unique atmosphere, but in many locations the brightness just looks wrong aestetically, notably on certain bosses.
>>729138881>>729141423kekbut honestly play scholar
>>729140579That really depends on your playstyle. For me every in every Dark Souls game the hardest area has always been early. In DS1 it was Undead Burg, in DS2 it was Heide's Tower of Flame, and in DS3 it was High Wall of Lothric. Personally, I found Earthen Peak harder than Iron Keep. Climbing that damn tower felt like fighting for my life, because while it had few enemies each one was brutal. In contrast lava land had tons of enemies but they were pretty easy so long as you know to retreat so they don't swarm you.
>>729142439To be clear, I played Dark Souls: Remastered and Dark Souls 2: Scholar of the First Sin.
>>729138881kek, what a based thread, i feel like ive seen all i need to see to leave
>>729141602It's amazing how people to this day think DS2 is the hardest Dark Souls game when it's the easiest, and that Scholar makes DS2 harder when it made it easier, simply because influential morons who suck at videogames said so.
Actually you need to play vanilla and downgrade to 1.0 to experience the shrine of amana as the devs intended
>>729141602>Oh yeah I forgot how he psyopped hundreds of thousands into believing "difficulty was never the point" lmaoWhat? Which youtuber are you parroting that's telling you that difficulty for difficulties sake IS the point of dark souls? I haven't heard this one before but you're fucking retarded if you actually think this.
>>729141180>some old ladies told me i was gonna die though>>prepare to die edition>i-ignore itWhat is it with Dark Souls 2 fanatics and being insanely deranged about the most meek of criticisms, holy fucking shit lmao? He addressed prepare to die edition directly in that same video.
>>729142439What playstyle makes undead burg hard?
>>729142786>It's amazing how people to this day think DS2 is the hardest Dark Souls gameNo one thinks this. You fags are circle jerking your superiority against opinions that don't even exist. It's incredible how insufferable it is.
>>729137791I don't think there's a clear cut answer. Here's my notes from when I played them side by side a few years agoVanilla>Fragrant branches and statues are less frequent and more substantial, serving as solid progress markers instead of loose ends that vary in importance like parts of a metroidvania map>better difficulty progression for the first dozen or so hours due to less annoying enemy placements and a better location for the ember>headshots/poison don't stagger you (might be because I ran a tank build for vanilla)>a downside is that some areas feel strangely empty due to low enemy countScholar>Better gameplay minutae with things like hitboxes, input buffering (with DSfix), enemy pathing and AI, momentum around ledges, camera lock-on>more bonfire aesthetics>malentia sells brightbugs>added random little things like the soldiers attacking the giant trees, the peasants mining in brightstone cove, a shortcut in no man's wharf, etc.>improved earthen peak from start to 2nd bonfire and shaded ruins>made some areas worse like Heide's tower, everything else in earthen peak, Sinner's rise and Black gulch>sidegraded basically every other area
>>729142912>>729142129
>>729143126>headshots don't stagger you Headshots do stagger in the original ds2
>>729137791Vanilla makes the approach to Velstadt's boss room feel far more dramatic and poignant: You can feel the important of the place and the desperation of those who guard it.
>>729137791Vanilla 100%Play Scholar a few months/years after you get bored with Vanilla and desire a new playthrought.Scholar is like an arrange mode of an arcade game or like old Master Quest Zelda games or arrange modes of static camera Resident Evil games.>>729138679Yeah what this guy said, I didn't even have to write my post but whatever.
Apparently to get the brume tower key, there’s a door at the forest that randomly unlocks later in the game, but every time I’ve played I just jumped off into the fiery pit and lived.
