>Bosses can OHKO you>Bosses go off camera so often sometimes it's nearly impossible to keep track of them>Bosses have nearly impossible to dodge attacks >Bosses have AOE attacks that will get you no matter where you are 95% of the time>Bosses have grabs that will kill you instantly even if you’re at full HP>Bosses have 5+ hit combos that require precise timing to dodge and enough stamina>Bosses can regenerate health even if you block their attacks>Bosses have delays on their attacks in order to fuck with the players' muscle memory>Bosses can input read when you heal so they can attack you at that precise momentDo people really like this type of design? I'm all for difficulty, but most of these are artificial, they don’t make the game more fun or engaging, it's almost like FromSoft became slaves of their own success, their games were good not because of the difficulty, but because they were experiences you couldn’t find anywhere else, but they seem to have forgotten that and decided to listen to the worst part of their fanbase.
>>729189692How many years do you plan to keep this up?
Elden mid...worst Fromsoft game ever...
>>729189692Skill issue. You have a button that literally makes you invincible. The entire game is about learning how to time it correctly. They do expect you to throw yourself at it multiple times and fail repeatedly before you learn the patterns and how to use them to your advantage. Skill issues can be remedied when you "git gud" (i.e. practice and experience), but if you don't enjoy that process then games like Elden Ring just aren't for you. No one ever mastered a Souls game on their first try. That's literally the point.
>>729189760nigga elen rin fucking fireeee
>>729190428What fucking button makes me invincible, nigga?
>>729191841
>>729192137Kek that’s a fucking lie nigga try rolling when Malenia uses Waterfowl Dance, see how much invincible you get kek
Elden Ring is good, but I can't stand From Software's design anymore. They don't know how to make the game more challenging and are making everything too stupid.I don't find most of the bosses in Elden Ring enjoyable in a fair fight. The experience is pretty miserable. And the "good" strategies are often too easy to implement, and too overpowered.
>>729192257it's tricky by design but waterfowl actually is rollable
>>729192543This, and the fact that they are autistic in their obsession with their dead world tropes even when it undermines their worldbuilding. Making an open world with absolutely no towns or human settlements, where the objective is literally for you to become the lord, is so fucking stupid.
>>729192663>where the objective is literally for you to become the lordElden Lord, husband of Marika the living goddess, specifically so you can fix everything
>>729192821>get banished by a bitch for no reason>now come back and do everything she wants for no reason>there is nothing worth ruling, just become the ruler and "fix everything"Mario Bros. has a better story than this shit.
>>729192985Damn nigga it is literally not enough for you that you call the shots and dictate what reality is by having control over the Elden Ring
>>729192985People like you are the reason why snoy movie games exist and are more shallow. You hate having to use you brain to piece anything together on your own.
>>729193112The game fails to contextualize the player's motivation in any meaningful way. The only endings we see that aren't cuckchair endings are destroying the world or simping out over the blue bitch. Both of those actively undermine any power fantasy that most players will have. It's bad!>>729193217Snoy movie games are bad because they're both bad movies and bad games. Fromslop games used to have better gameplay and better storytelling than they do now. Any retard can be vague and hope loretubers will invent enough fanfiction that nobody notices you didn't give a shit.
>>729189692You should make a skeletron thread for old time's sake
>>729194074>The game fails to contextualize the player's motivationWhat being a Tarnished is and what the goal is supposed to be is given to you pretty early on, the only way it's dicey is the reveal you're being begged to kill Marika, not marry her, including being begged to kill Marika by Marika herself through Hewg the blacksmith's imprisonment
Remember when bosses had big huge attacks that were easier to dodge than their other attacks because it did massive damage if you DID get hit, and their other attacks had varying degrees of damage based on the difficulty of avoiding it?What the fuck happened to that? Why is every jab 60% of my HP even at Vigor level 70 and 40% damage negation?
>>729190428the invincible dodge roll invented by dark souls has done more damage to video games than any other mechanic. bosses no longer have to be creative, they can just be huge with giant attacks that don't blend with the rest of the game or the players attacks. LoZ boss fights are unironically better.
>>729194685The dodge roll was not a bad idea for a majority of souls games, but lately it feels like FROM just gave up on sensible boss design and decided they don't need to be tested thoroughly they can just patch bosses 20 times each after the game releases.
>>729192985Wow anon it's almost like everything has fallen to ruin and they need a strong figure to govern and fix stuff.
>>729195113Becoming governor of reality doesn't soothe my masculinity enough.
>>729192985>>get banished by a bitch for no reasonMelina reminds (you) that you were banished on purpose to "find death" since you can't die in the Lands Between. You need to die to become a Lord/Empyrean, which is a big part of succession.>>now come back and do everything she wants for no reasonTo become a Lord/Empyrean. You were chose by the Goddess as a suitable candidate for Lord. That's a big honor. You died outside the lands, body was returned where you were brought back to life because death doesn't exist there anymore. With that under your belt you now have part of the necessary ingredient to become a god yourself.>>there is nothing worth ruling, just become the ruler and "fix everything"Just looking around shows you that the lands had an age of prosperity.
>Bosses go off camera so often sometimes it's nearly impossible to keep track of themThats what you get for playing with a controller retard
>>729189692Dying 100 times to a boss IS the gameThis is what its fans wanted
>>729196281>This is what its fans wantedThis. It's still easy even if I die 100 times to a boss, I mean it's not hard I just made a bunch of mistakes I'm not even good lol I'm glad it filters casuals I'll take a boss that takes me 200 tries over one that only takes me 5, that's boring I wanna be CHALLENGED (not that these games are hard or anything they're super easy you just have to wait until it "clicks" lol)
>>729189692You listed precisely why elden ring is irredeemable unfun dogshit yet the fromdrones will immediately proceed to call your post bait.
>>729190428>>729194685>>729194893Rolling is just a symptom of the dead end game design at the heart of the souls format. The player has no initiative against tough enemies. Hitstun doesn't work, there are no other offensive means, you can only wait to find out whether you should reactively roll, parry or manually evade a familiar attack pattern until the AI rolls the pattern where the framedata allows you to attack safely. There are some alternative builds like greatshield poking or poisetanking but they're even less mechanically involving than playing roll tag with an invincible meatgrinder. You're not really interacting with the opponent. You swing your sword and it deals damage but it's completely divorced from what is happening visually or mechanically. It's part of why every bossfight ends up feeling the same.It was easier to ignore these limitations in the early titles because they offered more complexity and variety in the form of long dungeon runs and less time was spent dueling roided up bosses or elite enemies. It's easier to develop novel or complex interactions and feedback in a system where those things are dispersed among a large number of actors and mechanics, e.g. a dungeon full of mobs. There's not much you can do when all you have is a single enemy in a static open arena, and Fromsoft's answer to that dilemma was to draw out the tedium.
>>729195468>You need to die to become a EmpyreanPlease provide me a single in-game source for this claim. Thanks in advance.
>>729194685That "invincible" dodge roll is what allows for more complex and interesting boss fights, if all you have is physically avoiding the attacks then you're limited to attacks that are slow enough for the average person to dodge normally and like 1-3 attacks in succesion at most.
>>729192543Nigga, you can absolutely crater 90% of the bosses in this game. How are so many people this fucking braindead?
>>729189692>Bosses designed to actually fight back>This makes your "average gamer" seetheStick to Simon.
>>729189692Don't forget:>action queue system designed to fuck you up by making you roll two seconds after pressing the button if you got hit>dodge button designed to dodge on release rather than press>innate input delay that requires toggling settings to get rid ofDidn't buy the DLC because I didn't like the direction from was taking the game's enemies compared to previous souls games. There's way too much extended combos and random shockwaves to be fun. Get a good tower shield and know when to roll away from the faggotry. Block the nonsensical shockwaves designed to hit players that correctly moved away from where the attack animation appears, and counter when they calm the fuck down. Also be aware that Malenia breaks the rules every other boss follows up until then and can ignore stance breaks if she's starting an animation. Enjoy your 7/10 game.
>>729198545Third church of Marika, sit down and listen to Malenia.All the Tarnished in the opening of the game are dead/being killed.
>>729204205>innate input delay that requires toggling settings to get rid ofWhat settings do I have to toggle off?
>>729189692just make a tanky build
>>729189692Do you really hate this game because you couldn't learn how to play it fast enough? Just use the teat (cheat) engine dude, That's what I do for replays to skip the grind. The goal isn't to beat the game It's to have fun with it. Beating it is just something on your to-do list. If you really don't like the game then don't play it. You've been making these threads for like a year or two now. I enjoyed the game a lot and I still play it and now, especially with the convergence mod that adds a bunch of great stuff that vanilla would never have. The game itself is fine for what it is. It doesn't try to be anything that it wasn't meant to be. You can modify it if you like, if you own it for PC like I do. It's a great thing to work with and to have fun with, and if you don't like it I'm sorry about that but they shouldn't change it just to suit whatever gameplay you wish it had.
>>729204205>>action queue system designed to fuck you up by making you roll two seconds after pressing the button if you got hitthats not a thing. you are spamming roll like a monkey and not concious of yourself doing it because you have low iq
>>729204340To get rid of or largely diminish my input delay, I had to turn Fullscreen to Borderless Windowed, cap fps at 60 with Nvidia Control Panel, and turn off V-sync. It was pretty much unplayable without that. Also binding a secondary dodge key to mousewheel helped dodge fast attacks greatly, since rolling it instantly releases and lets the game recognize you're not trying to sprint.
>>729204467It's absolutely a thing. The action queue is especially noticeable with charged up power strikes, and sometimes forces an extra light attack afterwards, and is easily reproducible. I never button spam in these games.
>>729192257you run away when you see it start then just roll into her once or twice, she usually overshoots you each time
>>729189692No quest log? WTF is happening. I mean, you got a map. It's hard obviously, and of course it's Dark Souls lol.
>>729194685The worst thing is that it now infected turn-based games too
>>729190428calling it a skill issue misses the point entirely. Making it harder doesn't necessarily make it more fun.
>>729205232to be fair if elden ring is your first souls game then youll probably find it insanely boring because of how the game expects you to go to a lot of optional areas in order to get the runes and level to finally approach the main story areas. if you play a souls game first its pretty linear with only some optional areas that are probably suited to the level you find them at anyway
>>729189692I do like this kind of design.
>>729204302Please cite the line where Malenia says that death and rebirth is a requirement of becoming an empyrean.
>>729205521Death is the fundamental requirement. It is a necessary step for the ascension of a God.Marika seduced her way into the Hornsent palace and stole the gold threads from those who would have ascended and crafted the Elden Ring.She sent the tarnished away, to live and ultimately to die, and to be given grace (reborn) past death to become Elden Lord.Miquella saw his bloodline tainted, roots mired in madness.Golden order fundamentalism,Haligtree,Seeking the gate of Divinity.Miquella the Redeemer of the original sin. Sacrifice of the self.To ascend the gate of divinity, Miquella and his Consort must die."Miquella awaits thee." - Malenia.Miquella sheds all aspects of himself.For an Empyrean, you need to somehow die, either to get into the shadowlands and utilize the gates of divinity like Miquella and Marika, or some other method like Ranni.A lord is easier to achieve that, as they can just leave the Lands Between and the influence of the Elden Ring.Marika and Radagon remain in the tree as a method for tarnished (potential lords) to unite with that Empyrean and complete the ascension ritual which is what most of the endings utilize.Ranni was a conniving little thing and managed to achieve death another way.
>>729204370grafted blade + godrick's seems like it'd be fun but I don't even know what I'd use to take advantage of some of the other stat increasesmaybe frenzied flame seal or some general frienzed stuff
>>729194685The dodge roll is the reason that Souls games have the best boss fights ever made. Fights like Messmer, Radagon, Starscourge Radahn, are good because the dodge roll exists and would never appear in a game without one.
>>729206271you can get stat boosts from flasks and talisman so you cn cast decent buffs/utility spells with pretty much 0 investment, and minimal investment if you want to do damage with them vs enemies that are weak to it, so like faith spell swapping to counter bosses or whatever.
>>729189760DS3 is worse >>729192543This. Not to mention these games have completely forgotten about level design and become linear boss rushes. Even fucking ELDEN RING is linear as fuck! There is ZERO interconnectivity between zones. How the fuck is the open world souls game MORE LINEAR THAN A SOULS GAME FROM 20-FUCKING-11?????
>>729206575I know, I'm thinking more in terms of damage and synergy. Maybe maddening hand + aged one's exultation.
>>729189692>Do people really like this type of design?they dont know any better. the audience gained a large number of virgin souls players and thing they are supposed to be abused by shitty mechanics. they love it because they think they are supposed to love it and be proud of themselves. Souls games are not difficult, they are a test of your ability to learn and solve a simple combat puzzle. those super meat boy games are more difficult on a technical level. since dark souls 2 they have been finding new ways to increase the tediousness of combat in place of interesting mechanics. And as the audience grows the less the hivemind of public opinion can be reasoned with.
>>729206667Did we play the same game? Several dungeons in Elden Ring have shortcuts and interconnected paths. The very first major dungeon, Stormveil Castle, is exactly like that.
>>729189692Is anyone else completely uninterested in Elden Ring? I had finished all the Souls games except Sekiro by the time this game came out and never had the desire to play it. It retained all the aspects of DS3 (also that disgusting washed-out appearance from BB) that I disliked and added tens of bosses. FromSoft played completely into le heckin' impossible boss rush game notion that normies had of the series. I actually enjoyed exploring the areas in the 1st and 2nd games, and a good boss at the end of a section was a treat. Now you got Elden Ring with tens of bosses that all abuse the same gimmicks: 10-move combos, delayed attacks, roll-baiting moves, roll-catching after landing a hit, etc., so instead of intuitively countering bosses, you have to actually spend countless attempts until it becomes muscle memory; at least. that's what it seems like from watching others play. I never even struggled with Souls games, but this one genuinely seems like it would be a pain in the ass.
>>729206934Those modern FromSoft bosses are no different from those fighting game bosses from the 90s, hard as fuck but completely unfun and unfair to fight against, the difference is that everyone called those bosses shit back in the day, but now they’re praised because it makes the "hardcore" gamer feel good about himself.
>>729189692>>Bosses can OHKO youGet 40+ vigor
>>729207308Elden Ring is amazing man, it definitely has some of the best moments in the entire history of FromSoft, it's just the last 5 bosses or so that almost completely ruin the entire game with how badly designed they are, but it's still a fun game all in all.
>>729196281I don't think I cleared 100 deaths total in general on the first run through of any game in the seriesAnd at least 50% of my deaths are to fall damage/pits
>>729207308The Souls series is much better, you're not missing anything at all
>>729207308the main story areas play the most like a traditional souls game, the optional exploration areas are where you get the tons of bosses and stuff. most of them are reused movesets from past games though like the erdtree avatars just being asylum demon but now his buttslam move summons some magic darts you have to run around in a circle to dodge. the main story bosses are the only ones that really feel like they have the gimmick movesets, especially the first few bosses, i feel like they intentionally made them like that just to get engagement about the game on twitter and whatnot. after the first handful of bosses you usually have enough health and stamina and experience for the rollcatch or delayed attack moves to not be as devastating anymore. you would probably have fun with it but just know that the game is made of like 60% optional areas that are mostly recycled content and most of the early game is really boring
>>729207396Now bosses 2HKO you.
>>729207418I believe that it probably has a bunch of great moments--it would make sense in a game that big, but I don't know if the entire experience is what I'm seeking.>>729207587Yeah, I probably won't play it unless I run out of other things to do and get bored (unlikely).>>729207834Thanks for letting me know. I'll keep this in mind if I decide to try it at some point.
People get stuck on ER bosses because they refuse to equip weapons that play on enemy individual weaknesses, instead locking themselves into a one-weapon build Its retarded in a game with like 200 enemies
>>729208537i beat the whole game naked with the guts sword, its not really that hard even if youre not targeting weaknesses
>>729208537I equipped a fire ash of war to a weapon in order to deal more damage to the first boss of the DLC, Dancing Lion, my went went from 740 to like only 805, it makes practically no fucking difference.
It amazes me the amount of players I see attacking the legs of dragons, when fromsoft have designed them to be extremely easy to beat if you stay directly infront of them and hit their head https://youtu.be/1qdm_fa7AbQ
>>729189692Skill issue. The biggest problem I have with ED (as well with souls slop like sekiro) is that while the gameplay is great, I fucking hate open world shit. Like, I hate having to explore an area to find some secret that is hidden in some jarred physics or coincidental events, etc. Games like Elden ring need more than a map, but a compass and a quest list. The Witcher 3 did it right.
>>729208807Maybe From shouldn't make so many melee weapons if they apparently make so many fights suck.
>>729208702Dancing Lion is weak to fire piercing and bleed. If you combine all three the fight can be over in 30 seconds.
>>729207234He's talking about 500 foot ladders or elevators linking different areas.
>>729207308>I actually enjoyed exploring the areas in the 1st and 2nd games, and a good boss at the end of a section was a treat.That is impossible because DS1 has dogshit boring world design. There is nothing visually impressive or interesting about the Undead Burg/Parish or the Depths or Blight Town, the game doesn't ever look good until the Anor Londo flyover, until you realize Anor Londo is a boring an empty area. DS2 similarly has pretty fucking boring early sections, and even ends with one that is basically unfinished. Elden Ring differs from most prior Souls games in that it actually looks good and the areas are cool enough that you want to explore them rather than being ugly mossy and moldy grey hallways with boring ass zombie enemies.
>>729189692lol shitter general>VIGlet>panic rolls backwards>chucks spells>can't jumpname a more iconic quartet
>>729189692level vit nigga, use armor and buffs nigga, be a poise ape nigga that can trade through hits niggaraise you camera sens or lock on niggadodge, block, parry or jump niggajust use your eyes niggasummon a spirit or mimic to give yourself a break nigga(i feel your frustration more for the DLC it's kind of cancer you spent 40 hours leveling vit then they add this area where it doesn't matter again and you get 2-shot until spending more hours picking up scadupoops, and there were more stupid boss combos)
>equip rock greatshield>equip great epee>block>poke 30 times>wingames too easy
>>729189692>Bosses can OHKO yougit gud u fagit>Bosses go off camera so often sometimes it's nearly impossible to keep track of themgit gud u fagit>Bosses have nearly impossible to dodge attacks git gud u fagit>Bosses have AOE attacks that will get you no matter where you are 95% of the timegit gud u fagit>Bosses have grabs that will kill you instantly even if you’re at full HPgit gud u fagit>Bosses have 5+ hit combos that require precise timing to dodge and enough staminagit gud u fagit>Bosses can regenerate health even if you block their attacksgit gud u fagit>Bosses have delays on their attacks in order to fuck with the players' muscle memorygit gud u fagit>Bosses can input read when you heal so they can attack you at that precise momentgit gud u fagitSkyrim sounds more your skill level, u whiny fagit. Also, git gud u fagit
>>729210262>There is nothing visually impressive or interesting about the Undead Burg/Parish or the Depths or Blight Townhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sr0ayFx4tBY
>>729189692Just play a mage like I did and you don't have to learn 90% of the game's mechanics, and you certainly don't need to learn any boss movesets.
>>729212390people play castercucks and still fail to comprehend that they need to actually invest in their statI'm summoned by casters who do no damage all the time
>>729208984Oh I see, you just have to die a bunch of times figuring out its weakness, stack damage and shit on the boss while disregarding its mechanics entirely.Fucking 10/10 game design. Truly we evolved past demon's and dark souls methodical RPG gameplay into something better: mashing.
>>729212645I bet you roll backwards, shitter
>>729213050I bet he likes games that are fun and have creative mechanics instead of rollslop simulator 5000.
>>729189692https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqhqbsdpAXo
>>729189692>Level Vigor>Get a shield>No really, GET A SHIELD>You win
>>729213123They see him rollin, boss is hatin. He's rollin dirty.
>>729213123I bet he rolls backwards and then cries about it in multiple threads on /v/ over the course of years like a shitter bitch
>>729189692>>Bosses can OHKO youThey literally can't if you spec into survivability. Vigor, Ritual Shield, bubble physik, heavy armor with good endurance, etc.
>>729204808You must be playing with K+M. Switch strong attack to a key (I use F).
Remember Deacons of the Deep? I remember hating this boss. But now I think it would be nice if they experimented with the boss design a little morr
>>729213612>>729213985Beating Souls games becoming a third worlder lifetime achievement award has done more damage to video game discourse and design than AAA moviesludge ever could.
>>729189692Weird, none of that happened to me.
>>729212352Wow you can take a random 500 foot elevator from favelaville to dankhallwayburg! Wow, this totally lame valley with boring and annoying enemies is a little hub between unrelated locations, I'm so glad that I can run through it and ignore all the baby dragons on the way!That totally makes those places interesting to play in!
>>729213123>games that are fun and have creative mechanicsWhat Eurojank or Capcom game are you here to shill? Get to the point already.
>>729194289>Why is every jab 60% of my HP even at Vigor level 70 and 40% damage negation?Anything is possible when you lie
>>729189692damn are zoomers really this cooked chat?
>>729189692Never really a major issue in my playthroughs, you must have done something wrong.
>>729213420>>729211842Why do people pretend that shields are free and don't require like 40 points in Endurance to actually tank late game bosses and enemies?
>>729215249mostly because they dont
>>729194685>invented by dark soulsRetard.
>>729214904>get accused of being a no life /v/irgin with no social outlet beyond this board>try to disprove it with a psychotic, buzzword laden rant smelly, dumb, shitter scum
>>729215249for the epic sword and board meme (they summon other players and won't admit it)
>>729215452>hallucinate a scenario in your head and accuse me of reinforcing itFromdrones are mentally ill.
>>729215249You can use heater shield at RL1 because barricade shield exists.
>>729215295They do. While the average build usually only needs 25 endurance, tough late game enemies like Haligtree Knights or Messmer Knights, Horned Warriors, Revenants, most bosses after Morgott, etc., require heavy investment in Endurance to tank the combos of without getting guard broken. Even if you're using the greatshield talisman on something strong like the Brass Shield. It isn't a free lunch. You're investing heavily in the play style. Or you have to give up your ash of war to spam barricade shield every time your enemy does their combo that would nuke your endurance meter. So then you start having to invest in Mind if you don't run past every hard enemy.
>>729215705Around 25 endurance, I mean. It isn't an exact number, but most shield builds need to invest at least 10 extra levels in Endurance to block against the powerful late game or DLC mobs and bosses.
>>729215559>hallucinate a scenario in your head and accuse me of reinforcing it>samefag as >>729214904retarded, dumb, projecting shitter scum
>>729215705They objectively don't. I know this because unlike you I actually played the fucking game. I used a shield. It was easy mode. I probably had like 20 endurance.
>>729215705anon shields are a meme, you just have to accept that shitposting retards are going to force the shield meme because of how many faggots needed one to fight Radahn in the DLCits just for funny hahas
>While the average build usually only needs 25 endurance, tough late game enemies like Haligtree Knights or Messmer Knights, Horned Warriors, Revenants, most bosses after Morgott, etc., require heavy investment in Endurance to tank the combos of without getting guard broken. Even if you're using the greatshield talisman on something strong like the Brass Shield.It isn't a free lunch. You're investing heavily in the play style. Or you have to give up your ash of war to spam barricade shield every time your enemy does their combo that would nuke your endurance meter. So then you start having to invest in Mind if you don't run past every hard enemy.
>>729216345These people legitimately just have not played the game
>>729216345>+25>2handing >letting Malenia heal off youwow bros all you have to do is pick up a fully upgraded shield and add 50% guard boost by not having a weapon hand its just that easyshields are a meme
>>729216618Woah hey buddy I saw that put those goalposts back where you found them
>>729216618
>>729189692Elden Ring is what normalfags thought Dark Souls 1 was so it was an inevitable flanderization of the IP.
>>729216665>>729216673>idk why fags don't just do no-life level 1 challenge runs I spent thousands of hours practicing>you can just bop Malenia to death with a shield its easy!autism in action, complete with samethink
>>729215705you have to upgrade shields like you do weapons so that they take less stamina to block with. it makes a huge difference. People not doing this is 1 reason why the "shields are bad" meme survived among the souls community for 15 years, the whole idea about shields being bad was actually the souls vets trolling new people into playing glass cannon roll spammer btw.
>>729201385>I can't into reading comprehensionthe real retard was you all alongI'm sorry you have to find out this way
>>729219769>1 reason why the "shields are bad" meme survived among the souls community for 15 years, the whole idea about shields being bad was actually the souls vets trolling new people into playing glass cannon roll spammer btwreal schizo shit, thanks anon
