Can someone explain the backlash of Prime 4 to me? I can understand if you're a little disappointed and wanted more from the game, but that hardly makes a bad game. It's common to say a game is too short and you just wish there was more, but this is the first time I've seen people say it makes the game outright awful.
it's kinda mid for a ten year wait.
open world bike slop, fake metroidvania
>>729199639No one hates this game because it's too short. It has fucking dungeons, instead of an interconnected world, it's full of padding instead of meaningful gameplay, and it has annoying NPCs that constantly tell you what to do and where to go, instead of having an isolated atmosphere and faith in the player.
>>729199639fuck off and live with your failed game, developer.
>game that revolves around well, thought out levels where the moment-to-moment combat is just shooting things>put in a SMTV desert where the only thing you do is meticulously thread the needle to break crystals and deal with mobs that have dogshit spawns that at best exist to break up your flow, AND you'll get nagged by an NPC if you spend three minutes in it>make almost EVERY "classic" area a linear corridors with either nonexistent fauna or the same three enemy types, and you're intentionally distracted from this by "pretty" set pieces>make the base beam dogshit and the uncucked version hidden behind green crystal collection>artificial padding that'll make the SH2 remake blush, yet it takes 10 hours to 100% at a generous pace>managed to have the worse balance where enemies simultaneously hit like a truck yet aren't actually threatening>zero new power ups, almost all of them are either "shots" or "psychic">the "lore" is both barely existent, shallow, and hamfisted>there's MAYBE one "puzzle" and everything else is fucking babby-tier
>>729199993>It has fucking dungeonsso does Prime 2, and it's the best one.
>>729200482nta or op, but starting to learn alot of things about videogamers and the videogame community.not even gunna bother responding to this directly, but ever since prime 4 came out, ive been learning that prime 2 apparently has "puzzles" and that theyre "better than interact with thing right infront of you" when as far as I was aware, you just lock on to everything in prime 2 and use the signposted beam, because the game is so inconsistent and arbitrary about what beams, and bombs can actually affect, that unless its a literal blatant cracked wall, or something else sign posted by lock on, your beam or bomb has no actual affect, because the enviromental interactivity in prime games cannot handle anything more, its that rigid.But actually apparently not only does Prime 2 supposedly have puzzles at all, but it also has "good ones" atleast whenever Prime 2 can be brought up to bring down Prime 4.And now, even more news to me. Prime 2 has "dungeons" whatever the fuck that means, because as far as im concerned, words dont actually mean anything in the videogame community, I could go on a diatribe about how suddenly only Prime 4 is "linear" and the past games arent, and how nobody whatsoever actually has any idea what the words they use mean, even if you take a charitable "they just think X different way of linearity is not linear is all that means" they will contradict their very selves when you get into the weeds about their "interconnection" meme, because they have no idea what that means either. Both Prime 1 and 2, if you actually understand anything about world design, are infamously poorly interconnected.
>>729200482Prime 1 is the only good Prime game.
>>729201406>Prime 2 has "dungeons" whatever the fuck that meansit means a confined location where you obtain abilities you use there to solve puzzles and defeat enemies and shit, there's even keys for a temple door housing the boss of the area before you leave to another dungeon.and fuck off with your dumb ass "there's no puzzles shtick" if you're dumb enough to handwave away anything that doesn't fit your semantics, there's at least a few good ones still. I have no idea what the fuck anyone loud and vocal on the internet expected out of Prime 4, but it delivered on pretty much everything one could actually expect out of the game.
>>729200482Prime 2 is mid at its absolute best. Prime 1 is the only good one.
Dang, I don't know, maybe that it's total shit compared to almost all other Metroid games?
>>729199639The issue with the game isn't even the length, it's the fact that they took what would've been a decent if short game and destroyed all hope of fun by shoehorning in the open world and making it mandatory to fuck around in it. At least the artifact hunt at the end of MP1 had you re-exploring actual maps and not just hunting around for a thousand of them in a barren desert. They basically took the Triforce Hunt from Wind Waker and increased the requirement exponentially for no reason other than time bloat
>>729201991not with that level design, no.
>>729199639>the game's plot feels entirely rushed and unfocused>none of the NPCs are interesting or even likable>the ending is abrupt and unearned>Sylux was completely wasted as an antagonist>the areas are all completely disconnected from each other and linear within themselves>everything has the lamest, most unimaginative name possible>the desert is just shit, there's no way around it. It's empty, has no music, and the bike isn't even fun to control>zero enemy variety passed Fury Green. You will spend most of the game fighting Grievers, Psybots, and Maintenance Tanks>the last two areas are long escort sections, with the Mines having three or four distinct, fakeout sacrifices, all of which were nullified by the fact that the enemies can dig through walls>green energy farming is shit, easily the worst 11th hour collectable in the series>hint system can't be turned offThat's about everything. People compare the layout of the levels to Prime 2 but they're forgetting some key details. Namely that each area in Prime 2 connects to the others, and your objective within that area has you traveling across the whole thing getting upgrades and exploring new areas. I prefer Prime 1's layout for sure, but to compare Prime 2 or even Prime 3 to 4 is laughable.I will say that Prime 4 does look quite nice and it has a good soundtrack, but those alone can't make the game good
>>729202228>other prime games are 2-3 hours longor did you forget that
>>729199639When you piece it altogether it goes something like:>After 10 years and actually canning a Bamco iteration that was undoubtedly leagues better than Nintendo could ever hope to surpass in the future (like the other games they made for them), they then offload it to the same people who have done nothing but metroid prime and should have done it in the first place. Or rather maybe not because they somehow managed to pull a "remember me" moment, only with every single character. Especially the characters you actually remember, they make those ones the most forgettable. >And untrue to the original formula, they add a bunch of jabberwocky NPC's because the modern gamer is a weenie who needs constant positive feedback even when failing miserably or refusing to read the fucking instructions.Basically they got too much for what the bargained for and Sakamoto just spent the last creative load he had on Dread and did not want the wind knocked out of his sails. It's actually sort of impressive, they managed to old yeller it harder than Starfox.
I loved Prime 2. Only problem that it's been so long that I can't really remember it. Port needs to happen NOW or at the very least get it on NSO.
it was genuinely developed by people who hated metroid>waaah some of the Dev team were og prime devs clearly not the important ones
>>729201631>Prime 1 is the only good Prime game.
>>729202712>I prefer Prime 1's layout for sureand into the trash it goes
>>729203558>recovering miserably in a hospital as a kid, super metroid giving him courage to brave it alone>goes onto work as an artist for prime, literally some of the best concept art in gaming being created as a foundation for them.
>>729203081>they then offload it to the same people who have done nothing but metroid prime and should have done it in the first placebut enough about Bandai Namco
>>729199639Everybody realized the Prime games suck ass.
>>729203926ahahaha. Honestly I don't blame them as who would want to go making games for companies that don't even understand the product they're selling. Did they cancel it because she was actually a bounty hunter in this one?Nintendo is so shit there is no official record of them even hiring them, the only reason you know is because the devs posted and deleted a tweet.
Prime 4 is a Metroid game in the Same way Breath of the Wild is a Zelda Game.
>>729199639these videos perfectly explained the problemshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpN02XizHK4https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlUqPh9_QF8
It is a mediocre game, any positives you can say are easily weighed down by the negatives.
>>729204209Prime 4 is a metroid game in the same way Other M is a metroid game. Metroid has had "the split Kojima Metroid timeline" where you have Tanebe and Sakamoto on each timeline competing with each other on who can mimic Kojima the best (Sakamoto is winning currently but Tanebe really came close to outdoing him). Now imagine this with Namco involved.
>>729202780Yeah and this game is 2-3 hours loger than it should be
>>729199639I'm not going to beat this horse anymore. The game is mediocre. 7/10 at best.Started a hard run and tweaked the controls a bit. So far, the game feels better, overall. Tweaking the controls has gone a long way towards my gripes with the dated control scheme, and Beyond is significantly more fun when you ignore the majority of scans. I doubt the game is going to outdo the difficulty spike in Volt Forge, though. Didn't even know that headshots did bonus damage to the bots before this run because it never really mattered in my first run.
>>729203904The concept art was so fucking good, Retro put a bunch of it in the games as rewards.That self-portrait is one of the coolest pieces of "Metroid" art I've ever seen. The glowing visor standing out against total darkness is an immaculate vibe.
>Because of the desert, the worlds are not interconnected.>A third of your playthrough will be spent doing nothing but riding on that dreadful bike and collecting green crystals>The NPCs add nothing of value>Sylux is wasted potential incarnate>Weapon sound design is lacking, you always sound weak>The main gimmick, psychic powers, gives you powers that are slow and boring to excecuteThe "levels" are fine, but they got nothing special going on either.Bosses were okay3/10Too much wrong going on for the good to carryFor a Metroid game, it barely qualifies as a Metroidvania
>>729199639Imagine if the silent Hill 2 remake had an open world driving section with NPCs chattering in your ear over the radio.That's how fucking bad it is.The prime trilogy was peak atmosphere and isolation. It was made by devs who wanted you to feel like the only human on an alien world. A lot of retards think there's any room for discussion or argument for why a voiced NPC is fine. Prime trilogy fans know that those are automatic red flags and make the game not even worthwhile. I'm not going to listen to your argument as to why I need a voiced NPC in the game, the point of prime was to actively choose to have none of that.
>>729202780Every other metroid game is even shorter. Speedrunning the prime games are still the longest gametime even when glitching>>729205696That self portrait is literally part of a world record for self portraits done in consecutive days. (1000)Does prime 4 even have a gallery or did they just suck all the soul out entirely?
It has some 10/10 moments but they’re diluted with 6/10 design in places. Prime is also too dated of a series. It’s like releasing Halo 2 in 2025 exactly as it is, if it never happened in 2004. Combat and shooting in Prime is dated. NPC interactions are dated, Samus being silent is even dated due to Other M. There’s an open hub world but it still has the same Metroid power up roadblocks. There are pixel hunts with the scan visor. There’s a terrible sense of backtracking. I rate Prime 1 in the top 10 of all time, but Prime 4 is like a 7/10, and Prime 3 was already an 8.5/10 at the time.Metroid is a series that Nintendo doesn’t know what to do with, which is probably why they keep passing it off to everyone.
>>729206119>Does prime 4 even have a gallery or did they just suck all the soul out entirely?It has one. They even hide one of the 100% completion cutscenes inside of the gallery for some reason. There are unlocks for 100% item/scan completion, hard mode cleared, and 100% green crystals collected (lmao).
>>729206183>it's datedFuck off. Go back and actually play supposedly "dated" games and they, on average, hold up much better better than modern games.
>>729199639With their output of games slowing down, and the quality of said games going down, it's disappointing. With the exception of air riders every game so far is "fine, but not as good as the last one"
>>729206351In the context of having 2 decades of FPS titles and online games and battle royales and extraction shooters, it is dated. You can’t just make Prime 4 after Doom 2016 and Titanfall 2. Back then is was CS and Halo. Prime fits in there with the wonky GameCube controller. If some kid had been playing Apex for 5 years, how would you convince them to try Prime 4 without resorting to typical /v/ shit arguments?If Prime 4 had faster combat, it would fit more into the horror elements of the series. It’s not an evolution of the series, it’s just Prime 3.5.
>>729206005>Voiced NPCsThe main issue is that they interrupted the isolation. But here's the thing, you can have both:>Each NPC gets rescued and fucks off to the hub asap>Samus should be able to reply with both silent nods and short replies. It makes sense that context since you need military professionalism.>A radio disrupting McGuffin is a must.>Dedicated rooms to communicate with the NPCs from afar for plot relevant stuff if you really need toimo, all those "interactions" made Samus look very autistic and the NPCs like schizos for keep trying to interact with the mute and pretending to have a dialogue with her.
>>729204154they cancelled Other M 2
>>729206351NTA, I replayed Prime 1 and 2 last year, he is absolutely correct that they're fairly outdated. It doesn't mean they're bad, but they are from a time that will never be again because we've moved on. The entire problem with the discourse of Prime 4 hinges on the fact people have a death grip on their nostalgia.
The game was made by people who love snoy movies.
>>729207070In all fairness even the token nigga is visibly annoyed by and has to reign her fangirlism in
>>729200482I can get to torvus bog from the sanctuary, and to the waste from the sanctuary. I can't get from the flare pool to the ice belt without crossing the retarded desert.
>>729199639Not enough goonology
My problems with the game: flare pool and the mines were terrible "dungeons" and end up being NPC escorts as you effectively go in a straight line. and on top of that having to babysit the squad in the final fucking boss fight was so annoying. crystal farming in the desert is bland and boring. maybe an enemy will attack you but probably not. lack of overall enemy variety. the main things you fight are bees and grievers, and then later on, green versions of them. really shitty lore. were the lamorn just retarded or was the lore just badly smashed together? real lack of metroid exploration. there are a few shortcuts in volt forge but for the most part, every other area is linear and you have to walk the same way you came in. the handholding is not just intrusive, but completely kills any exploration. Myles always tells you exactly what needs to be doing, where, and how to do it. This game could likely kill the prime series.
>>729207203That's anti dungeon design. You shouldn't want that.
>>729202228The artifact hunt was something anyone could just do parts of on the side as you went exploring bits and pieces, the key and cell hunts in the sequels were a bit more strict in accidental opportunities. But I don't think they were bad at all outside of more or less pushing you towards 100% item trips, whether you wanted to or not.Prime 4 meanwhile technically has three sets of endgame items, and the teleporter keys that kickstarted the entire journey were essentially the last thing Samus actually needed. Probably all byproducts of different builds.
>>729208667You had to go all the way to phendrana's edge after getting power bombs, the artifact hunt sucked donkey nuts
>I can understand if you're a little disappointed and wanted more from the gameYou don't understand at all. It's not about the game not living up to expectations on execution grounds, it's a game that's bad in concept bad at an "ideas guy" level. A game that never should have been made in this form in the first place.
>>729199639Because it's been 18 years since Prime 3, OP.
>>729208890I understand it completely, you fags hate the characters, hate the motorbike and hub world, worship your nostalgia of old games, asspull any reason whatsoever to put it on a pedestal and defame the new game. You're All The Fucking Same.
>>729210528What positives does the game have, then?
>>729207542>This game could likely kill the prime series.it was already dead
>>729199639It's a generic open world movie game wearing Metroid's skin.
>>729199639reddit writing makes it one the worst games ever made just on that metric.
>>729199639>It's common to say a game is too short and you just wish there was moreThe opposite is true for Prime 4. You could cut out the desert, or at least its green cystal grind, and people would unanimously consider it better.
>>729204886Kojima didn't invent that gameplay loop, tard. Ueda did.
>>729200482I like Prime 2 but it's nowhere near as good as 1
>>729199639
isn't there a dude who follows you throughout some of the game and is really annoying?
Going to get this and Mario Wonder with the digital ticket so they're pretty much $50 games each, will I like them?
>>729212921Prime 4 is just bad, get Prime Remastered instead or better yet Metroid DreadMario Wonder is fun but retarded easy and short, I'd honestly recommend NSMB U instead
>>729213045There's not really anything left since Prime 4 is the last compatible thing before the ticket goes away, and I played Dread and U already. Not the Luigi version, though.
>>729212921Mario Wonder is a fine albeit unmemorable platformer. Prime 4 is a mockery of the games that came before it, designed to pander to retards who never played Metroid.
>>729199639I don't think it's that bad but it's really not particularly good either. To be honest it's just deeply mediocre. I think people's emotional attachment to the series and from waiting so long for this entry have caused people to swing to extremes they wouldn't have normally, on both ends of the spectrum. In reality it's not a complete trainwreck and franchise killer, but it's not great either. It's a 5/10 game that would have already been forgotten if it wasn't Metroid.
>>729213632I haven't played it yet but everything I've seen makes me think it's ReCore 2 rather than Metroid Prime 4
>>729208743That's really not far, the Phendrana South elevator is right next to the Phazon Mines elevator, and you have to go back to Magmoor for Plasma anyway.
>>729207070SHES DOING MORPH BALLI had to step away for a moment when she said this
>>729212416This. It's hard to miss that Ueda is the originator.
>>729214485It's on the absolute furthest part of the area. I think it's pretty far.
>>729214963There's an elevator right next to it, you will pass by that elevator on your way to or from Plasma
>Sylux was wasted potentialNot a single person was hyped for this guy, especially after Raven Beak. Most people were just confused why a nobody was being elevated to big bad and it turned out exactly as one would expect. lmao
>>729199639Open world gets added to any game with basically no content to justify its development time, it is always better to replace it with a hubworld or level select or to simply not include a level select at all if the game is a Metroid style game.
>>729207070There is never a good reason to have helmets with retractable visors. Iron Man was a mistake, this shit was never cool.I can't wait for the reactionary wave once Millennials get into positions of power and I never have to see someone constantly mug for the camera to satisfy Gen X audiences.
>>729206993it's not nostalgia, it's just that the basics of what makes a metroid game a metroid game aren't present. linear design, hub world, no feeling of isolation, no meaningful exploration, npcs and dialog that give horizon a run for its money etc.youre deflecting away from the games severe flaws. it's forgettable at best
>>729215387I want to know why the fuck it was dragon heads for his first phase.
>>729215634Prime 4 does not feature an open world.
>>729206183>Samus being silent is even dated due to Other M.Samus spoke long before Other M. lmfao
>>729207542>>729211373>MP5 already confirmed to be in development ROFLMFAO
>>729212801There are dudes who follow you through all the dungeons, and the final boss fight. And you have to heal them when they're downed. LOL
>>729199639Highly anticipated sequel to one of the greatest games ever made ends up mid after a 8 year wait from being announced to release.
>>729217479but MP3 was kind of shit
>>729217567I really hope they port MP3 and Other M to the Switch 2. Those are the only ones I haven't played.
>>729215387Raven Beak's defense squad is really relying on his boss fight being as good as it is because everything else about him is just as bad or arguably worse than Sylux>Only shows up at the very beginning and end. If you count him pretending to be ADAM then you also count the fact that Sylux controls all the robots and had duplicates showing up.>No memorable boss theme>Motivation just as bare bones >Final boss fight, as good as it was, gets completely invalidated by him going "hurr actually it didn't hurt at all" until he suddenly loses to the cutscene powerup and dies pathetically to a random X parasiteI sound like a hater but I really like Raven Beak as well as Sylux, I am just baffled by the double standards. At least Sylux isn't dead so he'll get more titles to do things in unlike Raven Beak who was wasted after a single game.
>>729217328Does MP4 have escort missions? Some guys keep saying that the NPCs are invincible and can't be killed, but you seem to say the opposite.
>>729218294There are four distinct escort missions in Prime 4 and the NPCs can die in all of them. Granted, outside of the final boss you'd have to be really shit to let that happen. During one attack of the final boss though it's basically RNG and might just happen no matter what you do
Last minute collectathon to fight the final boss is always total bullshit. Jet Force Gemini did it, Metroid Prime 2 did it and then when Windwaker did it I never bought another console again.Collecting things isn't something to do for its own sake, you collect missiles and energy tanks because they are actually fucking useful. You start putting gold stars at the end of long tedious bullshit and all you are doing is pissing people off.People making games that just fundamentally do not understand them at all and in most cases actively hate the people they are making a product for.
Wow people weren't kidding.The game got worse and worse in the second half.
>>729218889The trouble comes that many metroidvanias (particularly in 3D) are relatively linear and despite having rewards for backtracking those rewards are inconsistent and not signposted with much regularity. Having a mandatory backtracking loop gives a convenient time for cleanup, though it's not like a player is going to know that the first time and it leads to the classic issue where you get a bunch of shit you don't need because you're already at the final boss. Dread's powerbombs were the most egregious in that regard, but that's a separate issue.
>>7292189803D metroirdvanias got buried alive by soulslikes
>>729219341They really did. I'm at the point where the best hope I know of is fucking Shadow Man 3, and that's DIRE.
Just got done playing prime 4. I actually liked all the things people are complaining about. I thought they were good, not bad. Maybe it's not the prime game some people were expecting, but that doesn't make it bad.
>>729219389>>729219341Explains why HK got super popular.One of the first MVs that incorporated the "soulsy feel" in a visually palatable package.This is one of those things where Metroid , both 2d and 3d, just needs to have a hard reset. Well maybe Dread can just get more nonlinear maps.New planet. New weirdo alien NPCs.But trying to spin souls sensibilities into a more Metroid package.
>>729219561The issue is that in metroid, enemies are environmental hazards moreso than intrinsically compelling as combat. Figuring out how to safely stand outside an enemy's range, how it moves, what happens when you freeze it or hit it with a missile or try to grapple it. They're something to be navigated as much as fought. Put another way, a souls game is never going to give you screw attack.
>>729219649I dont see how that's an issue. Just take in the shit King's Field did.
>>729219561The last thing Metroid needs is to become yet another 2D soulslike
>>729219530>actually everything bad is good>Metroid needs more cutscenes and talking and NPCs>it needs to be like Uncharted
>>729219341Souls just needs item based exploration and more puzzles.
The Prime series is dead. Good riddance to bad rubbish.
>>729200482>so does Prime 2Not it does not>>729201646>I have no idea what the fuck anyone loud and vocal on the internet expected out of Prime 4, but it delivered on pretty much everything one could actually expect out of the game.I expected to be isolated my metroid prime game, instead I got escort missions and the constant threat of wireless communication.I expected the world to be interconnected, Instead I got an empty desert separating 5 almost completely linear areas. I expected a rich story told through scans and environmental storytelling, instead I got an uninteresting mess where of a story where integrating the main villian seemed to be an afterthought
