What's the best roguelike that's actually like Rogue?
>>729245036remember to follow the chart
>>729245036Nethack Pathos is pretty good. Perhaps dungeon crawl stonesoup if you want more complexity.Tales Of Maj Eyal is also a safe bet.
>>729245036I'm a fan of pixel dungeon
we had this thread 24 hours ago please fuck off
>>729245167>it must be a carbon copy of Rogue or it's not a Roguelikeautism
>>729245036Rogue-FP?
>>729247730>Isometric turn based rpgSeems like a good definition of roguelike to me, unless you're one of those retards who bastardize the definition of subgenres.
>>729248498Why does nobody fucking understand what "isometric" means?
>>729245167I got a little confused because I was like "rogue is in third person" but you mean third person like Resident Evil 4
>>729245036Frogcomposband is still my favorite
i like nethack and adom and tome is pretty okay and cogmind is great
>>729245167this is what 0 pucci does to a mf
>>729245036TOME, maybe?
>>729245167retarded chart and i say that as a roguelike enjoyer
>>729245036DoomRL
>>729245036Dwarf Fortress
>>729245167It's a sad state of affairs when 90% of the chart is dedicated to stopping retards from calling every single game a roguelike.
>>729245036Back when I played roguelikes, I liked Nethack the most. Recently I enjoyed Elona, although I don't know if that's enough like Rogue to be Roguelike enough for this thread.
>>729245167Inaccurate. If there's RPG nonsense like classes it's not a roguelike it's a nethacklike. DCSS is not a roguelike. Shiren The Wanderer is a roguelike.
>>729249934>Knowledge from Rogue or other roguelike transitions over well>Top down isometric>Turn based for every action>Procedural generation is used>You can play with permadeath incase you happen to be nitpicky about thatIt's a roguelike
Nethack.
>>729250075>nethacklikeAutism
Is Pokemon Mystery Dungeon a roguelike?
>>729245036the shiren games
>>729251023Yes, albeit a casual one
>>729245036>>729245167threads like these always awake a craving to reply Caves of Qud
>>729251023According to the chart, yes
any good roguelike games which are first person and atmospheric?
>>729248564I've never seen the term as misused as it is in the roguelike sphere. Don't know what's up with that.
>>729245036is rogue a roguelike?
>>729251717Of course not. It's Rogue.
>>729245036Shiren The Wanderer
>>729251659I think I see it more in RTSPeople just think it means "top down camera" and it's baffling
>>729251503I think Barony is a really good translation of a roguelike into a first person game. Not sure I'd call it atmospheric.
>>729253453>Not turn basedNot a roguelike by any strech.
>>729245167>why do you call this game a roguelike?>we don't do that...IN GERMANY
>>729253738I think the combat system meaningfully tries to mimic it. Melee attack speed is set to a certain pattern, you have to trade hits 1 by 1 if you don't kite for a hit and run every blow. Movement is also slower when moving backward, so you need to turn around completely if you want to kite/disengage.
>>729245167This chart is what justifies telling roguelike pedants to fuck off. If you're just going to tell people that spelunky or rogue legacy is a platformer with no way to distinguish between them and something like mario then no shit people aren't going to care for your unhelpful bullshit.
>>729255081Sir, this chart is for identifying roguelikes, not platformers.
>>729255343>insists on knowing how to classify genres>can't even distinguish between mario and spelunkyAgain, no one is going to do what you want and you'll continue to complain no one is doing what you want even though you brought it on yourself.
>>729255563You can distinguish between them. That's not the purpose of this chart.
>>729255081Neither Spelunky nor Mario are roguelikes.
>>729255081>Retard misclassifying roguelikes deservingly gets told off>Gets madStop recommending platformers to people who want to play rpgs
>>729246825Have you considered not being a no-life hall monitor faggot?
>>729255629You can distinguish between them. The chart literally just labelled them platformers. So according to the chart you can't.>>729255694Remember when people bitched because they asked for rpgs and got recommended an fps like Deus Ex?Me neither.
>>729255002I'd disagree because the design philosophy behind roguelikes is that literally every action is turn based. As it is, I'd define the game as a dungeon crawler which borrows some roguelike elements.
>>729255081this is a funny post because fucking obviously spelunky is way more like mario than it is like rogue, why even bring that up when you're trying to argue the opposite?If someone played Mario and then said "This was really cool which of these two games should I play next if I want more like it?" and showed you these two pictures, which one would you tell them is part of the same genre?
>>729245167Thanks AnonI will finish reading 4 years from now
>>729245167Where does Chocobos Dungeon 2 fall on this list?
>>729256030>which is closer to mario? nethack or spelunky?>spelunky>precisely so I conclude spelunky is closer to mario than nethack>which is closer to 8? 3 or 4?>4>precisely, so I conclude that 4 is closer to 8 than 3You've failed logic at a very basic level here.
>>729255824Anyone would be annoyed if they asked for rpg recommendations and someone recommended me an fps, what's your point supposed to be? The only difference is that roguelikes have it worse, since the term has been bastardized so much that you have to filter 90% of recommendations because retards keep pretending that any game with permadeath is a roguelike.
>>729256621>Anyone would be annoyed if they asked for rpg recommendations and someone recommended me an fpsLiterally not the case. People didn't have a problem with Deus Ex being called an rpg. Because people were able to grasp the concept of genre hybrids.
>>729256780People have argued that Deus Ex's RPG mechanics do a disservice to its FPS mechanics for a long time.
BrogueNethackShattered Pixel DungeonLarnAngbandSil
>>729256886Closest I can think of to anything like that is when people complain how the game handles aiming and even then it has nothing to do with what the game was classified as. People were fine with Deus Ex being called an rpg, people were find with Deus Ex being called an fps. People understood it was an fps/rpg hybrid.
Stoneshard
>>729256481The difference is that Nethack plays like Rogue while Spelunky fundamentally doesn't, retard. Recommending Spelunky as a roguelike is akin to recommending green when someone asks for shades of blue.
I wish you faggots would spend a fraction of the time you use to talk about what a roguelike is or is not to actually talk about roguelikes.
>Caves of Qud delayed to January on Switchdamn, was looking forward to it this month. Still, its creeping up at least.
>>729257827A mix between blue and green would count as a shade of blue.
>>729257024>Shattered Pixel DungeonI find that one way too easy to break, the game just floods you with resources. It doesn't help that the only way to make the game harder is through challenges, and most of these just make the game more boring.
>>729258017I was actually playing some DCSS yesterday. I tried to get some Vine Stalker runs going and that wasn't going so well. The game was actually being nice but I'm rusty and have always played too fast so I was getting owned. I got into Lair a couple of times but always died to tabbing too much. Then I decided a Formicid might suit my one-track stupidity a bit better and the first run got into the Lair but I died to something or the other despite also having great luck and having an Executioner's Axe I could pivot to later.
>>729258169>If green was more blue, it would be considered more blueAnything other arcane wisdom you'd like to add?
>>729258728Yeah I thought it was obvious too.
>>729258775So you do agree that green isn't blue?
>>729259026Yes. But I also argued that Spelunky is a hybrid.
>>729259159Which it isn't. If Mario is Yellow and Rogue is Blue, Spelunky is pale green at best. It plays absolutely nothing like Rogue.
>>729259235In terms of appeal? When Spelunky released it wasn't the platformer crowd that was going crazy over it. Think about it. That crowd is more likely to complain about having to start from the beginning every time they die. It was largely indie game geeks who were already into niche genres like roguelikes who were getting a kick out of how "it was like nethack but as a platformer!"
How would you procedurally generate if you did not have breakfast this morning?
>>729256030Shouldn't it work the other way?If someone likes Spelunky and asks what game to play next for more like it, then your next question should be: "What specifically was your favorite part about Spelunky?"if it's traversal and exploration, then I'd recommend Metroid (not mario, Spelunky doesn't really do platforming well)if it's the randomness and permadeath, then I'd say Rogue.That's what people mean when they say Roguelike most of the time. It's a genre that most would define by perma-death and randomization.I agree that we need a better term for it. I generally don't like naming genres after the most popular game in them (I say Lock-n-dodge instead of Souls-like for example.)I don't know what that term should be though.
>>729259537In terms of how the game is designed, retard. You're trying to equate a strictlg turn based top down view rpg where the simple act of walking is a fully commital action is carefully thought out to an action platformer that's slightly more punishing than some Mario games. In fact, permadeath is outright harsher in Mario 1, so you can't even claim that Spelunky is more roguelike because of this nonfactor.If you want an actual hybrid roguelike game, at least suggest something like Crypt of the Necrodancer. That one does actually play like Rogue despite being a rythmn game of all things.
>>729260069>In fact, permadeath is outright harsher in Mario 1The guy you're arguing with is a dumbass but what the fuck are you talking about, you have lives in mario
>>729254421Kek
>>729260169You also have revives in some roguelikes which work the same as lives in Mario 1. If you're out of lives in Mario 1, you get sent back at the beginning of the game with absolutely nothing conserved from the run instead of getting revived. I know that I'm being pedantic, but that's the response that fags who define roguelikes as muh permadeath and nothing else deserve
>>729259681>Randomness and permadeath=roguelikeI'll play a Mario Maker challenge and quit out of the game if I lose a single life. Behold, I have made Mario Maker into a roguelike!
>>729259681>You're trying to equate a strictlg turn based top down view rpg I'm not because that's not the aspect of the genre being included in the hybrid. Just like how Deadlock abandons the rts-interface when it becomes a shooter/assfaggots hybrid.>>729260446>that fags who define roguelikes as muh permadeath and nothing else deserveThat's not even accurate because you're excluding the key element of combining permadeath with procedural generation. The whole idea of only having one shot to succeed in any given situation on the idea that death causes everything to change.
>>729245036Define 'best'Hack's forks would be easiest to get into. NetHack simply because most of it has been solvedCrawl's main fork has been standardized to make it for online tournaments only really, so a verison pre-2010 is fineMoria's forks are fine for shit if you wanna grindBut really the best roguelike is simple SLASH'EM with doppleganger wizard and startscum until you get ring of poly control
>>729245036Mystery dungeon
>>729258601if you want a game where the entire game is just spamming tab, check out path of achra.
>>729260646>Save a seed of Rogue>Play that seed of Rogue>Suddently Rogue is no longer a roguelikeProcedural generation isn't what defines roguelikes either baka. What is so hard about recommending top down turn based rpgs to people who want top down turn based rpgs?>B-but my game has procedural generation and permadeath and I want to advertize itCool, tag your game as having those options and keep it in its own genre.>B-but I want to call it a roguelikeGo fuck yourself, stop using the genre as a buzzword.
>>729261179>What is so hard about recommending top down turn based rpgs to people who want top down turn based rpgs?Answer your own question. You just successfully clarified the genre of game yourself.
>>729245167hilarious how some dude decided to make graph for his interpretation of the term. nobody cares.that's your interpretation. who are you, creator of the Roguelike (TM)?
At the very least you have to understand that you're retarded for trying to put real time and turn based games into the same bucket right?
>>729262183Sometimes the difference between the two is an options setting.
>>729262183I once argued with somebody who thinks that Crypt of the Necrodancer is a roguelike.
Nuclear Throne
>thread DEVOLVES INTO NEWFAGGOT POSTING ABOUT WHAT MAKES A ROGUELIKEOMG THE ABSOLUTE STATE
>>729260639>>729261179how a game can be possibly played doesn't change how it was designed.>>729260646I think you meant to reply to someone else there.Can we all just agree to call it something other than Roguelike if how "like" it is to "Rogue" is the major contention for whether a game is called that or not?The fact remains that most people see permadeath and random generation and call it roguelike. Whether they're wrong or not, I think it's good to define a genre name based on what it is, rather than what it's similar to.
>>729245036NetHack. I just wish it got a modernized update that doesn't completely gut the mechanics.
>>729248498>isometricIn what retarded world was Rogue ever isometric?
>>729259589But I had breakfast this morning
>>729262741Random runner.Gets the point across well enough.
why do people boil rogue down to the generic 70s crpg elements to define a roguelike instead of the things that made it different from the rest?
>>729261712Because that's a mouthful, and doesn't give the detail of how the turn based mechanic of Rogue works (everything is a turn). Roguelike is the best term for games like rogue
>>729245036Play Infra Arcana. It and Caves of Qud are my two favorite roguelikes. It's challenging and fun.
>>729259681>>729262741Funny thing about the term soulslike is how you get people happily calling platoformers like Hollow Knight or blasphemous soulslike but following a lot of people's logic regarding roguelike then a soulslike should be a 3d third person hack and slash game.But yeah you're right. Naming a genre as being like a game is a bad idea because it creates arguments about in what ways it's supposed to be like that game.
>>729263375It's also a frustrating piece of shit and I can't be bothered trial and erroring all the required horseshit to actually win without looking anything up, I've only gotten past depth 20 a few times.
>>729258017Good luck. This place never talks about actual Roguelikes. They just discuss off topic retarded shit
>>729263279>traditional roguelikeAlso what do you do when you get a top down turn based rpg which ditches having permadeath and procedural generation?
>>729263579Roguelike. Permadeath and procedural generation are not requirements.
>>729263695But Rogue had permadeath and procedural generation. That makes the game not like Rogue.
>>729263459It's especially weird to call them Souls-Likes considering they were mostly inspired by Ocarina of Time's combat being focused on Z-targeting and dodging/blocking attacks.
>>729263579Usually you get a dungeon crawler.
>>729245167In the end it all comes back to NetHack, not Rogue
>>729263751You can play Rogue without those. Just use a specific seed and git gud enough to never die.
>>729263961>does your game have sokoban>no>then it's not a Nethacklike
>>729264028You can play Rogue real-time, just force yourself to make a move every second.
>>729264243It's still turn based if you do that, you just add a rythmn game mechanic to it. Aka, you're starting to create Crypt of the Necrodancer.
>>729264331Crypt of the Necrodancer is real-time.
>>729264376It's turn based, you just have a time limit on a rythmn to decide before it skips your turn.
>>729264492In any case you'd be playing Rogue in a way that many consider not a roguelike given they also consider Crypt of the Necrodancer not a roguelike.
>>729256030Now compare Spelunky and Mario. Which one is more similar to Rogue?
>>729258601You should always save the lair until you've cleared 1-2 floors beneath it or you'll have a hard time
>>729258017Is One Way Heroics a roguelike?
>>729265321Yeah, I usually do it around D11.
wazhacki have 300 hours in this game on my pc and like 400 on my phone
>>729265406I'd say so, but it obviously relies heavily on the main gimmick
>>729265406Only if you don't use the dimensional chest. I'm iffy on the other metaprogression.
>>729265406Yeah I'd say it qualifies.
>>729265184Spelunky is also more similar to Call of Duty than Mario is, is it an FPS now?
>>729245167Someone show this to steam so I can actually look for roguelikes on the sale. Ain't no fucking way in hell horseslop gacha game is a roguelike and neither is anything else I see there
>>729262640
