>get to the final boss>you can win just by clicking a few dialogue optionsIs this actually a good thing? It's not like its difficult to get 100 speech, I do like having non-combat options but for a final fight shouldnt there be decent checks for other stats or item checks or something?
>>729290863Yes it's a good thing. Giving the player an option to utilize the points they've invested is a good thing. Stop doing mental gymnastics to try and shit on something that is good.
>oh neat>reloads save from 1 minute earlier and do the other endingits not an issue
>>729290863>choice badOP dumb
>It's not like its difficult to get 100 speechIt is actually if you don't want to die before getting to that point
>>729290913>>729290927>you control the buttons you pressnot an argument, its the final boss, the entire game has been leading up to this, and you win by just clicking whichever speech choice has the biggest number, it leaves you feeling empty
It's a talentless way to give the player "options". Sure, it's nice to have a diplomatic solution to the main quest, but it shouldn't be just doing the main quest and clicking persuade rather than fight. See Age of Decadence.
>>729291035You can also win by aiming your gun and clicking on his head. Any more brilliant critiques?
>Speech can resolve numerous situations in quests if you can meet the thresholds>Charisma meanwhile is a dump stat
>>729290863It's fine assuming that 1. it makes sense narratively and 2. isn't an easy win mechanically new vegas fails at both of these as the speech system is too casual and the argument isn't very goodsomething like fallout 1 does it well where there's more depth to the mechanics and the argument is narratively cogent, especially if you do some snooping beforehand
>>729291019With all dlcs level cap is 50, you get up to 14 skill points per level, you can take the skilled trait to instantly get 5 and use the exploit to get it again which would start you off at over 20 points without even taking it as a tag skillIt is not hard at all to max speech before the final boss
>>729290863The Idea is a good one, but done poorly thanks to shitty writing and retarded "number go up" skills.Dialog need to be it's on game in a game, and not "me number bigger, me click win" like it's done in games with D&D skill system.But that hard work, and most players are dumb, so click to win, number go up.
>>729291035>it leaves you feeling emptythen dont pick the option
>>729291096running away and hiding in a bush to headshot sneak crit him has the same issues, but atleast in that case you have to use your brain (even if its only a small amount) compared to just clicking through the dialogue option with [SPEECH], if they want to let you win with speech they should atleast include decoy answers that just aggro him or something so the player has to actually think and understand why the legions position is so bad the only answer is to just give up
>>729291424Okay, anything else?
>>729291502My mistake for trying to discuss video game mechanics on the video game board, I'm opening twitter now and searching rapidly for a tweet of someone with 3 likes saying something retarded, just give me a second and ill make a thread more to your liking
>>729290863It's impossible to make good boss fight in TES or 3D Fallout, so they just gave an option to skip it.
>>729291564Your discussion is boring. I don't care about you being triggered over a dialogue option in a video game.
>>729291639If you're the 4chan quality control guy shouldn't you have the ability to delete threads that dont meet your standards?
>>729291664Nah if I had that power I'd delete the entire site.
The outer worlds 2 for how bad it is actually has a pretty good speech system and speech option dialogue taking into consideration not just the skill but also info you find and other items. It's heavily inspired by fallout 1.
>>729290863The problem is getting to the "I win" check shouldn't just require high skill it should require finding some shit in other parts of the game and refuting the boss with regular (unmarked) dialogue options to get to the final turning point Like involve more of the game and the player's brain a little if they wanna roleplay a fucking nerd
>>729290863it is fine, but unlocking those options should take more than just 100 speech/barter. you should have a laundry list of things to do in the game to unlock them.
Wow OP, you're really smart. You came to this conclusion all by yourself, didn't you? Man, I wish I was as smart and cool and gay as you.
>>729291795>the speech check should not be tied to your speech skill and your character build should be meaningless! >it should be tied to finding something in game to use against the big bad because...uh...they did it that way once so it should work like that every time!
>>729291795If you want to relive Fallout 1 again, sure. Sometimes you can talk just someone down without evidence.
>>729290863[speech 100/100] Lanius, I have heard you have been fucking young boys. Homosexuality is a sin in the Legion.
>>72929086depends on how it's executed. new vegas has one of the worst skill systems out there so it's a bad thing in this case. generally I like the idea though if there's more thought involved in clicking those options
>>729291919The real fix is to make it so your stats make new options appear in dialogue but you don't tell the player those are the unlocked ones so they still have to think and your stats matter.It only becomes an issue after multiple repeat playthroughs at the point where they player already has mastery over the game.
>>729291035Fuck you for killing Letho
>>729291932In that case they should at least do something else, like not fucking tell you which options are the speech checks or something. Make the player actually think about what they're doing and try to convince the person and not just put a [click here to win] tag next to the dialog options.
>>729292067>Homosexuality is a sin in the Legion.You are confusing "a sin" and "a law".Quod licet Jovi, non licet bovi.
We don't have enough resources? Huh, I hadn't considered that despite it being the only thing I'm focused on. *leaves*
I would talk him into standing down and then shoot him when he started to walk away.
>>729291073You don't even have to look at Age of Decadence. Having high Speech in Fallout 2 doesn't allow you to bypass Frank Horrigan, but it does allow you to convince Sergeant Granite to help you fight Horrigan.
>>729291126It increases your companion's damage by and damage threshold by 5% per point :^) never mind that charisma in the cRPGs controlled how many companions you can have haha you wouldn't want to have up to 5 companions running around with you would you?
>>729291019New vegas isn't hard enough to say this.
>>729293218The players telling you that New Vegas is hard also use the caravan shotgun from day one
>>729290863Speech checks imo would benefit from not always just being a "I win" button but simply giving you the opportunity to present a compelling arguement or spin some convincing bullshit to the character (Arcanum would do this) or maybe you need evidence to back up your claims to succeed or make it easier, like Fallout 1 where while you don't need it, having the autopsy report that shows Super Mutants are sterile makes it easier to convince the master. Hell one thing I like with Lanius is if you do all the speech options and then say "So you'll retreat then?" you actually fuck it up and have to fight anyway, since he gets pissed at the idea of you implying he's being a bitch running away.I think it would be neat if for important stuff you should sometimes be forced to actually think and provide an arguement that could convince the person, and the more minor stuff then yeah one speech checks can solve it.
>>729291126Does Charisma ever have any meaningful stat checks in the game? Because otherwise all it does is improve companions abilities, and they're usually pretty strong as is.
>"pssh speech checks make the game too easy just click on [skill] blah blah blah to win">"DEAN IS TRYING TO KILL ME BECAUSE OF A SPEECH CHECK 2 HOURS AGO?! THIS DLC IS BULLSHIT!!"
>>729291424>you have to use your brain (even if its only a small amount)>being a Skyrim sneak archer is big brainNo, retard, everyone does that, everyone knows about that.
>>729293617
>>729292613[Speech 100/100] Potaeto potahto, Lanius. How would the rest of your men feel if they learned their Legate predates on men. Do you plan to make that the standard?
>>729290863It makes sense in a game where taking certain skills is actually a significant opportunity cost. Stuff like Underrail. In a game like NV where you really have no reason not to max speach, it feels like a cop out.
>>729293656Should have been more like this and false leads in dialogue.
>>729290863It's just part of the pacifist cucked ideology. Hilarious when they include those options in war or settings with monsters.
>>729291932You could do that in even Fallout 1. The Master could be talked down, the autopsy report would just make it easier to do so.>>729293538There's something sort of like that with Ulysses in that you can avoid needing a speech check to talk him down if you found and listened to all his holotapes in the divide. Then the courier can instead of speech checking him give some argument to refute his claims.I feel like how I would like it is if there was more times where it could backfire on you, like speech checking Dean in Dead Money makes it impossible to talk him down later (my only issue with that is it's the one time speech ends up working against you, a small few more should happen), and sometimes it just opens up the chance to convince the person, but it shouldn't be always. Sometimes it can just be a speech check.
>>729291035>man who spent an inordinate time honing his ability to influence people through words feels empty after besting the wasteland's most powerful debater in verbal combatsounds like a (you) problem imo
>>729293770>The Master could be talked down, the autopsy report would just make it easier to do so.The report was necessary. If you, the player, aren't aware that the super mutants are sterile, then you can't bring it up with the Master.
>>729290863why the fuck would you put 100 points in speech then? or if you do, but still want to kill the fucker, why don't you just you know, kill him? this is entirely optional and you're retarded.
>>729293710That's the main issue. New Vegas is not some hardcore RPG where you're significantly gimping yourself if you spec into speech and stuff. I can still usually blow away enemies fairly well even with mediocre stats in firearms.
>>729293850you need to read the disk but you dont need to give it to the master you can just tell him to ask his female mutants about the plan and he goes "o fuk"
>>729293850It's been a minute since I've played but I could have sworn you could talk him down regardless, the report just opened up an easier way to do so.
>>729290863It is a good idea in fallout, because not every game should be tryhard teen dopamine skillYou literally have "autoaim" in fallout if you don't know how to fps shootPeople that is bad at games should still be able to play (several) games, because "being skilled at games" shouldn't be a requirement to enjoy the hobbyOnly on this hobby happens, and you have been brainwashed to keep thinking that
>>729293884>At the base level, you need 1300 skill points for complete maximization (100 points for 13 skills). At level 1, you get 45 skill points for free (from your 3 Tag! skills), and an average character (5 in all SPECIAL stats) will have 15 as a base for all skills. This reduces the amount of skill points you need to 1060 (1300 - (45 + 15 x 13)). >For 49 levels at average intelligence, you get 612 skill points (12.5 x 49). Just with these base stats, this is enough to get all but 6 skills completely maxed out (remaining 448 / 85, rounding up). >Simply by taking Educated at level 4 leaves you with 356 skill points remaining to completely max out. Taking Comprehension at level 6 (and saving skill books until then) means that reading 89 skill books is enough to net the remaining skill points (so long as you adapt your per-level skill points to the remaining skill books). The base game contains 52 skill books, Old World blues contains 16 skill books/recipes, Dead Money contains 13, Honest Hearts can contain anywhere from 0 to 8 (0 to 2 per workbench crate, which may require some saving and reloading before entering caves), and Lonesome Road contains 13. With diligence in finding skill books/recipes and a bit of reloading in Honest Hearts to generate all 8, you can max out all skills without any other special character effort. >With simple variations, the task of maxing out skills can become easier or harder. A character with Intelligence of 10 with Educated at level 4 and starting off with Skilled will be short only 408 skill points, not including skill points from initial character creation (which will yield at least 111: 45 from three Tag! skills and 22 from Repair/Medicine/Science, ignoring Luck). This character will need only very few skill books by comparison, about 42 if all other SPECIAL stats are left at 5.
>>729293656Yeah, because it's the only time it happens, and you only know about it when you almost completed the DLC.
I wish Speech was more like how Barter is treated, which is less overpowered and not used as often. One of my favourite runs was using robco certified and a mod to add being able to make guns, I had my bots and would make guns, selling them. No charisma, mediocre speech, maxed barter. I could cut a good deal but was autistic as fuck trying to be a people person.
Is there a mod that makes New Vegas challenging enough where stats into combat stats really matters?
>>729294296No. Even playing on damage sponge very hard difficulty with your favorite fork of JSawyer and whatever item-deprivation mod you like, it doesn't actually make NV more challenging. The best you can do is to just not pull off mouse headshots, play with a controller instead of m+kb, and restrict yourself to attacking only while in VATS.
The Super Mutants in FO1 didn't give a shit about whatever words were coming out of your mouth, too. Based INT 3 chads just know it's their job to dunk little pinkies in the vat to pull out swole greenies.
>>729294296not really, there are mods that make the combat "realistic" as in you pretty much die from one shot, but those make stats irrelevant.
>>729294649Why was "Master" so goddamn stupid? Did it never bother to check if supermutants were capable of procreation? Did nobody tell it?
>>729293692The boomer thing is quite useful, saves you a lot of time but then again you can just boost the stat and not waste points
>>729295075iirc the muties intentionally hid it from himit was srill stupid though, he could have kept a human breeding program going and turned them into mutants
>>729295338Meanwhile, Ant Misbehavin' is streamlined by a speech check giving you an insta-kill option. Then you can get the rest of your rep by doing Sunshine Boogie and hearing the history of the Boomers. Talking to the kids is next door to pointless.
>>729291424>they should atleast include decoy answers that just aggro himDid they not do that with him? There are other cases in this game of being able to make incorrect dialogue choices
>>729290863If the game's combat wasn't so bad, fighting him might be more enjoyable
>>729295617how do you even make fallout combat good? making it STALKER would suck dick despite what fallout 4 modders believe but it's a real time RPG combat system where guns and melee are somehow supposed to co-exist. how do you make fights "fun"
>>729295681Well anon, you wouldn't believe me but it's been done already...
>>729295559They did if you try to barter with him and if you ask if he's retreating after succeeding with speech, but you'd have to be a genuine numbskull to do either of those things.
>>729290863>pass the Speech 100 check>shoot him in the backFeels great man
>>729295075When you tell him he goes to check with one of his own scientists iirc who say that the mutants aren't sterile. So either>They knew and didn't care cause the smarter mutants see themselves as superior >They didn't know>They were too scared to tell him they fucked up
>>729295867WAS FO1+2's combat system that good, though? I remember just shooting people in the eyes over and over again.Wasteland 3 had a pretty fun combat system by just bolting an xcom cover system on
>>729295559Only the most obvious one of saying him turning back is retreating, because you're poking at his ego then.
>>729295954Old Fallouts' combat wasn't anything particularly good but using it as a base to improve from is 100 times better than trying to marry it to bethesda's dogshit action combat (with further insult of tacking in VATS onto it). Fallout should have never left isometric turn-based space.
>>729290863Haha, yeah, Lanius is pretty stupid. Imagine if someone told Rommel he'd be wise not to chase the British all the way to El Alamein. They'd be laughed out of the room!
new vegas did not age well. None of the fallouts of elder scrolls didcompletely dead worlds
>>729295681It can't be both a real time combat system and have the stats and perks be meaningful. Even if I have shit skills at guns just the fact it plays like an FPS in combat means I can just sit back and snipe away at the enemy, even with shit weapon stats. The most I'll have is less damage (doesn't matter that much when I have enough bullets) and weapon sway if my character doesn't have enough strength.
I know people have made mods to make standalone versions of the frontiers car system into New Vegas, but did anyone add in the vehicle enemies from the frontier into the New Vegas map?
>>729294416>>729296212pc master race invalidating the existence of analog sticks
So there's just no way to fix Fallout New Vegas difficulty, even with mods? It's either vanilla or >Everyone dies in two hits, therefore stats are meaningless
>>729290863>Erm, chudiggaphobecel, is being able to use your skills in an rpg a good thing?Insanely trans coded post. Well memed my sista!
>>7292960851st person is more immersive doe, and the love they put into the guns is much easier to appreciate in 1st person
>>729296387'fraid so
>>729296426Arcanum is more fun where it would just present the opportunity to talk someone down.
If the skill check isn't a dice roll with the skill just giving to better odds then it's not an RPG.
>>729296901Dice rolls don't work the way you think they do. In real life, dice rolls are kept a secret by the GM because a good GM will lie about the roll to better suit the needs of the story. The player's character sheet is meant to disincentivize them from performing an apparently dangerous action and instead stick to their character's wheelhouse. The reality is that the player's character sheet in a TTRPG doesn't matter except 20% of the time when rolls are revealed. 80% of a TTRPG experience is being lied to by your GM about the results.
Persuading lanius is a fucking worse ending than killing him you sperg
>>729297076SHUT UPSHUT THE FUCK UPSHUT YOUR STUPID ASS SMELLY ASS SHITTY ASS UP
>>729297076Yeah, your talking bullshit, the reason dice rolls were kept hidden was part of trying to create verisimilitude and immersion by giving the players only the feedback of their actions instead of trying to metagame shit via keeping track of what on the dice were successes and failures.If your arguing for what Gygax was doing in her personal game then that's also moot because Gygax's game was not the product D&D that was indented to be sold and played by the broad population and people go by the books actually released.
>>729291424Almost as if you are playing your (speech) character's role
>>729297463>>729297789>they hated her because she spoke the truth
>>729290863>final boss can be defeated using one single moveIt's shit game design. Speech 100 should be ONE of the requirements. You literally just uhhhh west bad and he skedaddles away
>>729297076>80% of your combat results can and will be ignored by the GM because they don't fit the epic fight script and choreography he worked so hard on for twenty whole minutes the previous nightDamn, I'm glad I never got into TTRPGs then, that sounds miserable.
>>729296570>1st person is more immersive doeMaybe for some companies, not bethesda
>>729291035Nobody is forcing you to press these buttons you fucking retard, you don't even have to let him talk to you and you can open fire immediately when he appears
>>729298126TTRPGs are basically ass to play unless you meet "this guy GM" that fudges rolls for the benefit of the players instead of "that guy GM" that does what you're describing.
>>729297789>verisimilitude>indented
>>729298268I have to cook Christmas breakfast in like 3 hours and so didn't sleep give me a break.Also you missed >her
>>729297789>>729298126>>729298230The feature bloat of player characters and its consequences have been a disaster for the TTRPG community.
>>729298418Haha I sure love watching the fighter use another action surge to perform another set of maneuvers it gives me time to eat all of the food I brought lol
