In Ocarina of Time, is becoming a sage an allegory for dying? Did all the sages die trying to stop Ganondorf?
>>729422103Did you play it? Pretty sure they show up in Hyrule in the credits.
>>729422103Didn't Darunia die explicitly? He's goes into the boss room to fight the Goron eating dragon then isn't there when link gets in
>>729424012as zombies
>>729422103I'd imagine so, or at least some form of ascension. >>729424172Nabooru also gets nuked by Koume and Kotake after Link un-hypnotizes her, and Ruto isn't seen again in the water temple.
>>729422103Allegory? Sure basicallyLiterally? Not really, but also maybe for some of themSages are spiritual beings that in TP aren't even seen as individuals with differing appearances or traits, and in WW are literally ghosts, it might as well be like being dead to be fully awakened as oneThere's also the possibility that their physical bodies dying just doesn't matter for a sage as their spirit continues on regardless until replaced
>>729424012As spirits, yeah.
Will they ever confirm or deny this shit. To be fair even if they did I wouldn't taken them seriously
>>729425345Darunia going to 1v1 Volvagia and Saria screaming for you to help her pretty much confirms it.
>>729425345canon is meaningless in Zelda
>>729425496It's meaningless in BotW slop but that isn't Zelda.
It's not an allegory at all. The physical body has to die in order for a person to become a sage. The dialogue just doesn't explicitly say it in so many words.
remember when they made a whole second game about Link searching for Navi and by the end he doesn't find her lol
>>729422103Becoming a Sage is definitely becoming some sort of spiritual being, as opposed to a physical one. But it's less that becoming a Sage is itself a form of death, and more that a dead person becoming a Sage is less of a leap than a living person doing so.Most if not all of them seem to die before they become sages but it's not clear if this is a requirement or just an allowance for dire circumstances.
>>729422103nintendo won't right out say it because they make game for babbies therefore contrarians will argue the opposite
>>729425703Link missing Navi is the text.Link reflecting on, and attempting to reclaim, memories of being a special hero on an adventure to save the world is the subtext.
>>729425703NoI remember they made a whole game about going to wonderland and stopping a moon from falling on it and defeating a magic maskLink was searching for Navi for literally 20, maybe 30 seconds of the beginning of the game before he had other shit to do
>>729425703>>729425843Navi is a representation of Link's childhood, and the loss of itMM is almost entirely revolving around that loss and a villain that refuses to accept the same kind of growth, I don't know how anyone misses it
>>729422103You actually become a sage by being a virgin for 30 years.
>>729425793
>>729422103No because Zelda also counts as a sage and she explicitly survives
>>729426443Yeah but she's also some kind of perpetual reincarnating demigoddess (I want to hit this beehive of autism directly and say that it's really fucking stupid to try to establish a canon of EVERY Zelda game and whoever had that idea needed their ass kicked)
>>729422103I wanna fuck ruto. Think theyll let me leave after im done or do I have to stay there forever too
>>729422103You don't have to die, but many ARE dead before they awaken as Sages.Saria, Darunia, and Nabooru were killed in their respective temples. Their spirits became Sages.Impa, Ruto, Rauru, and Zelda survived and became Sages in person.
>>729425996>Navi is a representation of Link's childhood, and the loss of itLink didn't lose his childhood. He became an adult for like a few weeks and just went back to being a kid again, then mm happens. Navi was a lost friend or something still though so same outcome.
>>729426594Doesn't Ruto get yeeted the same way Darunia didAnd I always got the impression Rauru's fat ass died like 500 years ago and he was just chillaxing there
>>729426606>overly literal-minded autist does not understand basic psychology, let alone metaphorical themesEvery time
I didn't buy into the "Navi dies" theory until I realized OoT's opening scene is literally the first moment of her life, we're in her POV as she blinks into existenceSo she exists for nothing except the Hero of Time's quest, when it ends, so does she
>>729425160In Wind Waker aren't they literally killed recently by the bosses of Earth and Wind Temple?
>>729427160Maybe, I don't rememberThat kinda bolsters the point though
>>729427227But Laruto and Fado were still sages of their respective temples before the bosses killed them.
>>729427160I don't think so. They've been dead for a very long time as evident by the lack of Zora and Kokiri in WW.
>>729427413https://zelda.fandom.com/wiki/Laruto>Prior to its events, she is murdered by Jalhalla under orders from Ganondorf after the latter managed to circumvent the seal of the Goddesses and reached the surface of the ocean.
>>729422103Yes. The credits make it even more obvious.
>>729424012As literal ghosts who fly around while their loved ones weep.
>>729425496Ubislop is not Zelda. Even Miyamoto explicitly said lore and canon mattered around the time they made ALttP and OoT/MM.
>>729422103I don't get it, because the Wind Waker sages Medli and Makar don't die when they transcend to sages. They're even on the pirate ship after Ganondorf is defeated.
>>729426634Ruto disappears after you meet her at the beginning of the Water Temple. There's no indication she entered the boss room and was killed in battle, like Darunia did. She was probably just out wandering the Water Temple until Link managed to clear it, and then she was called to the Chamber of the Sages to awaken. That's probably the same thing Impa did.Rauru's still alive because he's Kaepora Gaebora. Nabooru was probably executed by Twinrova after she failed to kill Link as an Iron Knuckle. And Saria is clearly dead, she says she went to the Forest Temple to calm it, but you never find her there, and a sad Mido mentions that Saria isn't coming back to Kokiri Forest again, and wishes he could apologize to Link.
>>729422103the owl is seen outside after awakening as a sage, so no
>>729428231Different timeline you fucking stupid idiot
>>729427306Yeah, they can still have physical bodies after being sages
>>729422103
>>729430189
>>729426606The loss of childhood and nostalgia for that lost time is a running theme through OoT, MM, and WW. Skull Kid is Link's mirror in MM, he's raging about having to move on from his childhood.
>>729426634>And I always got the impression Rauru's fat ass died like 500 years ago and he was just chillaxing thereYeah, Rauru was present at Hyrule's founding and built the Temple of Time himself.>>729428072>Rauru's still alive because he's Kaepora GaeboraNah, Rauru isn't Kaepora Gaebora. He expresses surprise at Link growing up.
The subtext is obviously there but they also don't really commit to it. Aren't you able to play Saria's Song and talk to Saria the entire time you're going through the Forest Temple?
>>729426812someone should do a romhacks sent in the 'ganon defeats the hero's timeline where Navi survives and reluctantly joins the next hero on his quest while traumatised by her witnessing link's death
>>729422103Short answer. No, because Nintendo is a baby company that doesnt like saying things directly. You can literally hold a gun to Miyamotos face and he will give you the most obfuscated answer possibleReal Answer? Yes, most of them anyway. Keep in mind at the time, it was already a common theme in jrpgs that sage/angel like characters have to shed their earthly bodies to attain their awakened form. Even in BoTW the champions all die off screen and essentially become defacto sages after you kill the monster holding their spirit hostage. >Saria is literally begging you to save her from the forest temple...which is completely overrun with monsters and she has no way to fight back>Darunia basically goes on a suicide mission, he admits himself that without the hammer hes not strong enough to kill volvagia...and the room is empty by the time you get there>Nabooru literally gets magic nuked right in front of you>You meet ruto in the water temple...but shes acts like shes been waiting for you to show up, and conviently dissapears in a dead end hallway before Link can even interact with herImpa is the only one where you can kinda say she might have been alive, but if you talk to the townsfolk, they all say theyre extemely worried because they saw her go into the temple and hasnt come out in a long time.Also, in the end credits, while most of the townies are partying, you can clearly see King Zora and Mido mourning the loss of Saria and Ruto. They may sense that they are still out their somewhere...but they will never see them again.
>>729431408I guess they wanted to focus on their souls ascending or something, but it's very obvious that they all died before awaking as sages
>>729422103they become like force ghosts like obi wan
>>729427443hyrule historia is fake change my mind
>>729431408>you can clearly see King Zora and Mido mourningas a kid I always just thought it was mido being an eternal hater
>>729427413>>729427443>>729431516If they were dead for a long time it was something that the King didn't know about. The way he says it sounds like it's something new.
>>729430603>>729426606>>729425996and now kids today had their childhood stolen by covid, art imitates rhymes
>>729431721ok that in game quote is good enough for me
>>729431408>>Nabooru literally gets magic nuked right in front of youThat was a vanishing spell, not a killing spell.
Why are anons saying Nabooru clearly died in her temple when the two witches literally say they should brainwash her again? Why would they kill her when they want to do that? Did they have their magic set to "kill" on accident?
>>729432004they're old and senile so probably
>>729432004Because she failed them and Koume and Kotake aren't the forgiving sort.
>>729425294>>729427697as opposed to how they appeared after you complete each temple? They were clearly no longer mortals.
>>729424172they all died trying to ward off evil in the temples, that's how they became sages in the first place
>>729422103Its actually a trans allegory.
>>729426606he lost his childhood when he got kicked out of his village and had to save the world
>>729425996pseud
