i find it weird when people champion undertale/deltarune as the ultimate examples of sincerity in gaming, knowing the origins of toby's sense of humorspecially when sites like tumblr always had irony posion and even people being cynical towards animesomething tells me there could be a chance of deltarune having a cameo of dril or mega64the real "tumblrisms" of ut/dr aren't the furry characters or the lgbt elements, more likely they're the type of humor when you consider the roots(i'd also bring up the differences between "tumblr cringe" and "deviantart cringe" where tumblr always had overt self-awareness, self-deprecating humor and even some cultural overlaps with somethingawful while deviantart feels alien in comparison because it's weird kids not even thinking about how the outside world sees them)(could also be because tumblr is full of millenials who also invest in politics to feel more mature than they are)it feels like people nowadays (and maybe as a side effect of "internet brain rot" or troll's remorse) define sincerity as "anti-cringe culture", as if simply including colorfull furry characters makes your work sincereso by this logic: david lynch's art for example can't be sincere because it doesn't have colorfull furries or poorly drawn anime charactersbut i also believe toby himself might be aware of this, which explains why he'd ever want to go to japan because barely does irony exist in anything from japanmaybe he even sees pieces of irony and the likes on his western fansbut he probably doesn't entirely regret his history with tumblr if it got him into things he did like
How can he be a symbol of sincerity when he literally LARPs as a Jap dev?
>>729628632This./thread
>>729628520Nobody on the modern internet knows what sincerity is. I'm not from the modern internet, and I'm from 4chan of yore. What is sincerity? Sincerity is speaking your mind without care for how people will judge you.For example: I never played Undertale or Deltarune, because I thought the game looked bad. I mean it looks bad graphically. That's me being sincere. Do the fans ever explain why they're okay with it? I think they accept those graphics specifically because they're bad, and they desperately want to be different, like the game itself is.
>>729628632It's sincere if you're such a delusional weeb that you convince yourself that you're really Japanese.
>>729628867Have a look at these motherfucking graphics. They look like games I played when I was little. Why would anyone play a game like that now? They do it because nobody else is doing it. They're just hipsters. Sincerity to them would be like daylight to a vampire.
>>729629104>Have a look at these motherfucking graphics. They look like games I played when I was little. Why would anyone play a game like that now?
>>729629325Even your Focus, M shit is insincere. You're too lazy to even write anything. This game I played when I was younger looks better than your Deltatroon shit. Yes, I do know what your fanbase is. I'm the only anon on this website with a three digit IQ.
>>729629418
>>729628520What are some games that are still sincere? I like Kingdom Hearts for that.
>>729628867>I'm not from the modern internet, and I'm from 4chan of yoreYour take on this is questionable for the same reason Toby's is. 4chan,/a/ and /v/ specifically, are very much known for being the hipster boards especially early on. You can't really accuse others of being hipsters while citing your time on the board that popularized the term "normie" as why you don't count as one yourself. You should be aware of how often we would celebrate obscure games for the sake of their obscurity and would lambast (and still do) anything that's mainstream. Undertale initially grew it's first following from 4chan because of it's subversiveness appealing to our userbase.
>>729629104
>>729629496You're just going to reply with images? I'm adding this thread to the 90% auto filtered section of the board. This thread came into existence because I'm not bluffing. Unlike you "people", I don't lie. It's 90% because non-whites, women, trannies, etc. Enjoy each other's company.
>>729628867>Do the fans ever explain why they're okay with it? I think they accept those graphics specifically because they're bad, and they desperately want to be different, like the game itself is.I love Undertales shitty graphics because it had a homemade quality to it. I loved Beavis and Butthead, Home Movies/Dr Katz for that. South Park is a huge one.
>>729628867>I think they accept those graphics specifically because they're bad, and they desperately want to be different, like the game itself is.I fuckin brought up a bunch if 90s cartoons but didn't read your insane fucking psychoanalysis. I don't give a shit what people think about me liking shit graphics or whatever. Its not a social thing for most people from the 90s. It's just fun. And I just remembered I loved Squidbillies and Space Ghost Coast to Coast.
>>729629636"i hate cereal" (continues to eat the cereal)you have schizophrenia
>>729629418>nobody is sincere because everybody is a hipster that likes stuff just because it's different>not me though, I hate everything, but I hate it for a reason so that makes me not a hipster>it's so hard being the only non-performative normal smart person in a world of brainless hipster sheep... sigh...
I think OP was raped and gaped.https://arch.b4k.dev/v/search/image/1HLV3SnweJOLHcM4w54BzA/Only thing that could explain this type of behavior.
>>729628632He is the most sincerely Japanese a white boy has ever been
>>729630180what would a Kamiya and Toby Fox collab look like
>>729630180For real though, I think most of /v/ is just jealous that he's living the ideal indie dev dream we all imagined as naive teens.We all said we were gonna work for video games and make the next Cave Story and the Nintendo/Bungie/Valve/Blizzard/whoever you simp for was gonna hire us and we'd get to stand on stage at E3 to present our magnum opus.
>>729628520>define sincerity as "anti-cringe culture", as if simply including colorfull furry characters makes your work sincereSwing and a miss. "Sincerity" has a new meaning in a specific context relative to the internet and the impact of irony on its culture.In this case, the tendency to try and enjoy things in a way that doesn't leave you open for someone else to mock, through ironic detachment, eventually created a culture of media that seemed to loathe everything about itself. The genre, the setting, the characters, everything was built on some self deprecating joke so the developers could laugh along with the players, because the assumption was that the players would never do anything but laugh.This is what people mean when they talk about "irony". This is why Deltarune is championed as "sincere".
>>729630618Concisely said. Shedding defensive irony and Marvel-isms is something I'm generally in favor of.
Maybe things would be better if you terminally internet niggers (not just ones on /v/, but everywhere else) played damn videogames instead of sitting on the net all time and coming up with theories on everything and then waging holywars on each other.
>deltarune>sincere
>>729632081Other than killing all normalfags, what is the best way to combat this? Because I don't think posting more softcore porn of our favorite characters is working.
>>729628520Toby's work is ironic in the traditional literary sense, where the core of the work is not what it appears to be at the surface and the story is structured to play on the reader's expectations. Undertale is an RPG that effectively subverts conventional RPG gameplay and storytelinng. Deltarune is even more pointed, heavily playing on the expectations of an audience already primed by Undertale.From a certain point of view, you could call this an insincere approach. These games make no attempt to hide what they are, with Undertale being marketed as "The friendly RPG where nobody has to die." But their approach is not to meet the consumer's expectations, it is to challenge them. Someone with a dim view may feel that a game is unfair, unjust, or that they have been tricked when the game pushes back, creates friction, or resists the player's actions in any way.Irony in the (post)modern sense is different from this broad non-traditionalism. Modern irony takes this separation from tradition to the extreme of absurdity and detachment from the work. A work like this can't resist pointing out, "Look at this thing, isn't it silly?"There's a whole subgenre of "ironic visual novels" made by Westerners that embody irony in this sense, coming up with an absurd premise and making up a story around it that is essentially one big joke. You might laugh at the joke the first time you hear it, and even get in on the joke, but a story that's just a joke with no substance gets old fast.This is what it means for something to be "irony poisoned." The irony is not an outer layer that draws the reader in, it has seeped into the heart of the story, or it was hollow inside from the start. There's nothing sincere here, the story doesn't want you to get closer, it has nothing to say to you. Don't open up and make yourself emotionally vulnerable, stay detached. Just keep laughing.
>>729632453Be genuinely passionate about something. Create a community that discusses that thing with an expectation that everyone has the same level of passion for that thing, and gatekeep anyone who isn't passionate about it. Do not engage with outsider discourse from those who are clearly uninformed. The biggest reason things shifted this way on the internet I feel, is because what I described above is now seen as cruel bully-like behavior. Embarrassing someone by correcting them when they act uncivilized is considered a greater evil than allowing their behavior to run rampant. It's a very difficult thing to combat though, as the freedom of the internet means everyone can curate the who and what they interact with. That means the majority of people are used to self-validating interactions as that's what they sub-consciously end up curating their social circle to be. This is why the concepts of respecting others' opinions and having to prove the worth of your own is seen as shocking and barbaric to many a newfag. We can't really fix it while social media sucks everyone's dick. We need everyone to experience being told to sit down and shut up when they don't know what they're talking about.
>>729633260It's hard to do that when I don't own the site and have no plans to become a janitor though.
>>729628520Toby Fox isn't a weeb. He's a Japanophile. His love for Japanese culture isn't superficial, he lives there and can speak Japanese.
>>729633351There's a 0% of 4chan ever lifting itself out of the newfag tourist hellhole and /v/ becoming an underground hobbyist forum again. The very nature of anonymous posting means there's virtually no gatekeeping. Moderation clearly has no vision for the future of the board and no insight on what the community wants or needs. /vg/ is proof of that enough. It would be up to the userbase to curate themselves, but that ship sailed well over a decade ago. A forum this large and with this little barrier to entry is impossible to keep on-topic on the modern internet.
>>729630273>"SHUTO AHPPU WAITO GAIJIN PIGGU INSECTO AND KREEP AHN FRANNING MRE! AIYAAAAAAAH!!!">"Y-Yessir Mr. Kamiya-sama san niisan padre chan!"
>>729633128this reminds me of people analyzing my little pony a decade ago, you people need to read real books
>>729633128>>729630618Only tangently related, but a fear and hatred of sincerity explains so many of the shit forced memes running rampant on this board.
>>729633617I've tried talking about things I'm passionate about on other sites, but it often feels like talking into an empty room. On 8 obviously, but also there was a pokemon booru that I'm pretty sure only had 2 other people on it. That one actually was a little fun, but then the admin stopped paying server costs and it disappeared without warning.It's so tiring. I want more, but I haven't found a place where I can give more yet.
>>729632450I'm pretty sure>I love this silly fan thing so much I'll give it its own little room in the official thingDoesn't come from a place of bitter insincerity.
>>729630383I don't think there's remotely a sizable portion of /v/ that actually straight up dislikes Toby Fox.Most of the autism about it seems like a handful of miserable retards pretending to be multiple people.
There's nothing sincere about Toby Fox, and that's because he has the Chaplin disease. That particular combination of arrogance and timidity sets my teeth on edge. He is arrogant. Like all people with timid personalities, his arrogance is unlimited. Anybody who speaks quietly and shrivels up in company is unbelievably arrogant. He acts shy, but he’s not. He’s scared. He hates himself, and he loves himself, a very tense situation. It’s people like me who have to carry on and pretend to be modest.To me, it’s the most embarrassing thing in the world—a man who presents himself at his worst to get laughs, in order to free himself from his hang-ups. Everything he does with his games is therapeutic.
>>729634106I straight up dispised Toby Fox because he extended the life period of my OCD with his soul and chara nonsense, which made my OCD returned in full health, making my life suffer again.
>>729628520>>729633128Sincerity is the essential difference between a work that is simply "ironic" and one that is "irony-poisoned." Does your story have a heart? Do you have something to say?To continue with the ironic VNs, Katawa Shoujo is an example an ironic VN that predates ironic VNs becoming a "trend" (in the West, the original concept is a product of Japanese otakus going through their own version of this trend in the 00s). The premise of "a dating sim where all the girls are disabled" is absurd and edgy, but a group of passionate developers inspired by the concept turned a one-page gag in the back of a hentai doujin into a fully realized project, a labor of love that has touched the hearts of many people. That's sincerity.Even the poster child for the ironic VN craze, Doki Doki Literature Club, is fairly straightforward. It's a metafiction horror story using the dating sim elements as a framing device, it has real characters and a story with something to say. It's not a coincidence that this is by far the most successful example of the subgenre (being free helped, of course).Metafiction inherently creates ironic detachment by drawing attention to the separation between the reader and the work, and this applies to Undertale and Deltarune as well. But like in modern wrestling, deliberately breaking kayfabe can be a powerful tool to make a storyline feel even more authentic.An irony-poisoned work retreats into ironic detachment, creating separation between itself and the reader, pulling them out to remind them that it isn't real, it doesn't matter. But metafiction, when done well, draws attention to that gap by crossing it. It doesn't push the reader away, it pulls them in. This story has something to say about YOU. How much closer can you get to the heart of a work than that?
