How do you fix it without resorting to the obsolete turn-based combat?
I would make it turn BASED.
>>729659039Nothing to fix, games are unique and thats its appeal Also remake/rebirth has all the turn based elements without the downsides so no reason to go back
They should've just stuck with the MMO-like style that 12 was starting to go towards and evolved the series to compete against xenoblade chronicles now that dragon quest is irrelevant.
>>729659039Why should Square Enix fix something that has been perfected?
Being action is the least of the problem of Nomura/Toriyama/Yoshi-P trash.
>>729659039Rebirth was fantastic so there's not really much to improve right now.
>>729659039>how do you fix it without giving what its fans want?sounds like there is nothing to fix if its fans aren't the target audience anymore.
>>729659039Rebirth is the best game released in years. They are on the right track.
>>729659039Turn based wouldn't fix anything with FF.Dragon Quest is still turn based and nobody bought or cares about any of its games. DQ1&2 is probably the biggest flop for the series since the 2000s, and the next game has zero noise around it aside from a purely negative reception in Japan, despite it also being turn based.
>>729659591>Dragon Quest is still turn based and nobody bought or cares about any of its gamesdragon quest has never been a thing in the west you fucking retard
>>729659039How about actually innovating for once instead of copying the current trends and creating a good turn based combat system that's fun to play instead of a chore?
>>729659656People were holding up DQXI's meager success as an example of people wanting turn based thoughbeit
>>729659676>how about innovating?>no, not like that! Needs to be turn basedSlit your throat
>>729659834jumping on the third person action RPG bandwagon when that's 95% of the RPGs coming out nowadays is not innovating, dummy
>>729659834>it has to be all or nothingget the fuck out of my hobby you nigger
>>729659591>remakes of a niche series aren't selling well in the westGee, how totally surprising.>>729659039>how do you fix it without the fix it needsYou end the series entirely.
>>729659591Sold 1mi + with 1/100 of the budget of Redditbirth. Redditbirth and XVI didn't even reach 3 million copies. Seethe and d i l a t e.
>>729659039>want to attract a young audience>make the protagonist of your newest mainline a 35 year old virgin
i hope they double down on FFXVI, it has everything fans expect from a FF
>>729660034>Sold 1mi +It didn't actually. The only sales data is Famitsu, and DQ1&2 have long since dropped out of the Top 10.The total sales as of Christmas are>Switch 2129,581 units>Switch310,027 units>PS5115,640 units>Combined555,248 units, which is really, REALLY bad for a numbered DQ title, and it is not gaining sales anymore.The PS5 version doesn't even chart and the sales for December topped out at under 10K, which means it's done, and keep in mind, these are Japanese sales. These physical numbers typically account for 75% of ALL sales, including digital and western, so it's likely the game only sold up to 700-750K units altogether. Even the high-end of owner estimates on SteamDB would agree with this conclusion btw.
>>729659039The ff7 remake games have ok combat. You need to fire the entire story department at square and find someone with a new idea. ffxvi was just a mistake outside of its asthetics.
>>729660446>outside of its asthetics.its aesthetics were godawful
>>729659567In a way its great but as a remake of ff7 its incredibly disappointing. Combat is good for rpgs though. The story is shit. They have a background story that is never explained and keeps key info away from you so you can never fully put it together. This is so they can go through all the motions of the original game while holding a background story thread they hopefully will capitalize on with the last game.Saving and simultaneously failing to save Aerith was a huge annoyance. Also dragging the game across three entrees has made cloud really annoying. You are playing a mentally fucked up character while people around him keep quiet about his problems.
>>729659039make it turn based.
>>729660501How chicks and big dudes swinging weapons. The story was long and boring.
>>729660689that would fix 1/10 of the problems nuFF have
>>729660743Hot*
>>729659039>always say they should just have turn based the way FF6 was>E33 does just that to great success>now if they do it they will just get called copycatsMaybe FF did deserve it after the last couple entries.
>>729660851wrong
>>729660669>Saving and simultaneously failing to save Aerith was a huge annoyance.What are you going on about? Aerith is fucking dead.
>>729661015you deserve nuFF
>>729660446Just reuse that combat for a new game.
>>729661103no, because I want turn based.
>>729659039but the series was best when it was turn based. FF5 is the best gameplay the series has had. And the series was most popular when it was turn based
>>729660689>>729660979>make FF combat braindead againNo thanks.
>>729659039Hire good writers. These games need a more interesting and more consistent story and better character writing. The gameplay doesn't matter. Turn-based or real-time action are both fine as long as players don't get bored.
>>729661212isnt it funny how the slopmake didnt manage to beat this
>>729659039i would make FFXVII an eroge crossover with all the female characters of the previous games turned into 10 year old students in a school where the main character is the teacher
>>729661212
>>729661146yes, you like nuFF
Fire Nomura and SE will shoot up to Square Soft levels overnight.
>>729661146Why should SE make Final Fantasy turn-based again, if turn-niggers won't even buy the games specially tailored for them?
>>729661212I love how mouth breathing retards act like this cherrypicked webm that skipped half the fight is a "gotcha".
>>729661036Pretty sure shes alive you saved her but remember the earlier explination about how when you make a change against the path of fate you create a separate universe or whatever. So she's alive in a side universe. Cloud can see her because he still has the materia that allows you to see the side universes which was meant to find the real black materia. This will allow them to bring her back if they want in the last game like how Zack joined Cloud in the fight. Copies of Zack and Aerith are being kept alive in the side universes. And the devs dont have to commit to anything since they keep it all ambiguous. This is why Cloud experienced both saving and not saving Aerith in that moment. Blocking the sword and not blocking it. Seeing her fine and bleeding out.
>>729661212>>729661303The people who save and repost this bait don't actually care if these games get good again.
>>729659039>Go back to steam punk knights and mages >Copy and paste FF7R combat>Make ONE VIDEO GAME at a time, no extra bullshit>Stop trend chasing and listen to the fucking fans for once
>>729661508the schizo who spam that webm probably never even played the game
>>729659591>Remaster old games nobody in the West has played>People dont buy itWow retardo, you really nailed it. If SE wasnt a bunch of lazy hacks and remade the games in the style of DQ11, they would sell gangbusters. Theres a reason Capcom straight up chose to remake the RE games instead of doing lazy remasters.
>>729661212>one story fight at the beginning of the gameYou retarded fuck.
>>729661543Sorry, best we can do is call of duty: final fantasy edition with day 1 dlc and episodic storytelling.We had to scrap the last 1/3 of the game due to time constraints, please understand.
>>729661915They have not turned it into a shooter yet but ffxv and ffxvi felt like this.
>>729662014
>>729661443they buy them though.
>>729662139kek forgot about that
>>729661443i want final fantasy, not your cringe anime shit
>>729661443>sold 2 millionClearly people bought it. Every game has a sharp decline in sales 2 weeks after launch
>>729661364I think its time for your meds.
>>729659039How about mixing both action AND turn based like the newer Trails games?
>>729661212Combat in every early Final Fantasy game was completely braindead due to technical limitations.
They should just copy the FFX turn based system, maybe also make it where your whole party can take part in the fight and make the battles a bit larger scale, more in the srpg direction
>>729662385>how we make battlefield into a mix of turn based and shooter!why can't you let franchises be themselves?
>>729659195This
>>729659039Bring the job system back an innovate on it
>>729662564I was just thinking about ffx-2. I always liked the job system.
>>729661685>If SE wasnt a bunch of lazy hacks and remade the games in the style of DQ11, they would sell gangbusters.DQVII will bomb in a month and prove that idea wrongIt's just that people don't innately care for turn based games. They like games that have cool stories and characters, which DQ never has.
>>729662564I don't like the job system. It never made much sense that you can literally just change your class on the fly.
>>729662857Its fun. That was what made sense.
>>729662857Why does it not make sense? People can train in different disciplines.
start with making good characters. cloud, squall, zinade, tidus, these are all unique and cool heroes with strong motivation and distinct designstake a silhouette of any character from FF7 to 10 and you instantly know who it is and you might even be able to guess what their fighting style is like. whereas do the same for one of the FF15 boys and good fucking luck
>>729662841>DQVIIOnce again, in the style of DQ11 is what we're asking for. No half measures and no females who look like trannies
>>729663409>Doesn't count!!You'll keep crying when XII flops as well, just like how XI's rerelease was a complete flop.
>>729662459This is actually 95% of JRPGs. Most problems can be outleveled
Take the combat from the first kingdom hearts game and tool it to work on a real time party member swap system where you are constant switching the action between your party members in a fight. This can look like a couple of scenarios. It could be positioning members to a groups of enemies they can handle and letting them hold them off while you swap to someone else and focus the tough enemy with your own player input or if you wanted to thin out a threatening encounter by reducing enemy counts quickly you could bring you other party members in to engage an enemy, have another keep the others off and then go in to focus them down one by one utilising this method on each one. Mages carry long cast times so commiting to one may mean having to quickly swap to another party member and covering the mage. Lots to tinker with and lots to workshop but this should let you add a proper action angle, a bit of that old turn based strategical thinking and importantly keep the party format
>>729663713The problem with difficulty is tastes very. One of the most effective ways to deal with that is to leave the player options to make it more difficult or less difficult. Systems that make the combat difficulty dynamic based off your level stats whatever piss people off. And I think ffvii remake and rebirth both have a dynamic difficulty option.
>>729663767>the first kingdom hearts game and tool it to work on a real time party member swap system where you are constant switching the action between your party members in a fightIf KH developers already have issues balancing the floaty combat of KH how do you expect them to balance it with mid combo character switching? I like Oneechambara ZX but even there I agree that it's too button mashy.
>>729659039Furry girlsAlso make the protagonist silent
>>729663392The XV boys are so bad I swore for the longest time there was five of them and I just couldn't remember what the fifth black clad K-pop boy looked like
>>729659039Not even final fantasy devs like final fantasy, they never did. It's all depressed devs making slop they don't even want to play so burnt out salarymen will buy it and reminisce about the "springtime of their youth". That's all jrpgs are. You look at what these developers are playing in the last famitsu interviews and they just absolutely do not give a shit about this garbage.
>>729661443>FF thread>seething about Metaphor out of nowhereEveryday, everytime.
>>729665618You do realize that's a metaphorfag trying to derail another thread, right
>>729659039you don't. let it die
>>729665652Surely must be him, you schizophrenic brownoid.
>>729659039Make a multiverse beat em up RPG where jack goes to every final fantasy and kills every boss while roasting the heroes in their games.
>>729659039do what 7 did and make a veiled porn game again
>Ban ARPG (XV, XVI) from being implemented into the main series. At most a hybrid system like VIIR.>Make parties mandatory (+4 minimum).>No more trilogies (XIII, VIIR). If you have to then a duology at most.>Be frugal with remakes. Best to focus on new stories, new characters and cultivating new talent.>Retain a combat system for longer than one game. You can iterate on it, but don't reinvent the wheel each time.
I just finished rebirth for the first time. I really liked it up until the end of Temple of the Ancients. Then the last chapter got me pretty confused about wtf is going on. Since I am late to the party I missed most of the discussion already. What's the consensus on the ending? They skipped the scene showing Cloud laying Aerith's body in the water. That scene is iconic so it feels like it's purposefully not there. Why though? The multiple timelines/dimensions thing seems to still ring true. I noticed there being multiple versions of the dog again, but just how many did we see? Zack doesn't seem to be with Aerith anymore. Did he split off in a different dimension/timeline or something? Did he save Biggs aftert going to Hojo, or did we see 2 timelines? One where he goes to shinra hq and one where he meets up with Biggs?Help a brother out.
>>729660669>In a way its great but as a remake of ff7 its incredibly disappointing.It's a great remake, but you're not explaining yourself clearly since I get your grievance and even share it.>They have a background story that is never explained and keeps key info away from you so you can never fully put it together.You're talking about the new meta-narrative that they teasingly breadcrumb throughout the games, which isn't that much of an issue by itself, but the presentation (in the final chapters) of each chapter was strange. Especially in Rebirth. They kind of ruined it with the schizophrenic directing in the last chapter. I can tell Nomura was involved since he likes to create mystery through obfuscation.
>>729669228The truth is there is not enough information to figure it out. On purpose. They are not letting you get the new story so they can bring people into game 3 along the same path as the original. People debate if Zack and Aerith or alive or somehow we are playing them in the lifestream afterlife. Its all obfuscation without the ability to pin it down.>>729669302Dragging out the game has made me really dislike playing Cloud as well. Tifa keeps ignoring Cloud being a schizo and its making it hard to be invested in the story. Its a very strange feeling and I know its just because that cant get resolved until they fall in the life stream in game 3.
>>729669228Consensus? Not sure. It depends on which part specifically you're talking about. Some like it overall, some don't. It is a good ending, I see the vision, but it's mostly the directing during some moments that bother me. For example, they should've shown Aerith being impaled by Sephiroth's sword. They've shown it with President Shinra and Tseng (censored), so why not here either? Instead they use these super confusing shots that focus on anything but the action itself. The Aerith death scene itself was a downgrade. They continually kept flip-flopping between she's alive! No, she's dead... Wait, she's alive! Wait, no, she's dead... It didn't allow the player to rest with a particular emotion. I did like the rest of it mostly, like Zack and the whole build-up towards the Aerith stab moment, Cloud stopping Sephiroth with his sword, the whole group holding the Whispers back for Cloud, etc.As for your other questions, my feeling is that the real Cloud/Aerith/Ancient Temple scene will be shown in part 3. If they're smart they'll compensate for Rebirth and make it extremely moving. As for the "timelines", you rather need to view them as "worlds" happening within the Lifestream. The Lifestream is essentially a representation of memories and knowledge (which explains Marlene & Elmyra being present) along with people who are dead but weren't ready to die (such as Zack & Biggs) which explains why Jessie & Wedge weren't there (they made peace with their death.) Any time there's a white/black background (like Zack following the yellow lillies) you can view it as them being on the Lifestream highway going from Lifestream world to world. Zack seems to be special, since these Lifestream worlds work based on people's hopes and dreams, and Zack has plenty of those. He's naturally incredibly optimistic and hopeful, which allows him to be a perfect conduit (for future Aerith?) to use to stop Sephiroth. Note: this is my speculation.
>>729659039FF hasn't been good since before the merger. It's fucked
>>729659039The game being turn based or not is irrelevantMake a good game first
>>729669473>Tifa keeps ignoring Cloud being a schizo and its making it hard to be invested in the story. Its a very strange feeling and I know its just because that cant get resolved until they fall in the life stream in game 3.I can give you the narrative reason for that. >Tifa is conflict-avoidant. Cloud is her one real anchor to her past of Nibelheim. He's also an unrequited crush from the past. After miraculously finding him she's scared of losing him by probing too much. She treats Cloud as a delicate vase. In Rebirth we see Cloud is gradually recovering memories on his own (Zack), and Tifa's approach is to let Cloud recover at his own pace and support him during that.>The party (including Tifa) has no idea this is Sephiroth-related. They only think it might be a SOLDIER-related thing, and that it's the infamous degradation phenomenon (which is a red herring).>All the events of FFVII take place in around a month give or take, they're in a rush chasing Sephiroth before he wreaks more havoc, especially as the stakes heighten with knowledge of the black materia.>Cloud is likely the strongest party member in-universe (outside of Vincent who's his equal or stronger), so they rely on his strength.>Cloud also knows the most about Sephiroth, and somehow always know which lead to take in regards to him. So, these two factors, his strength and his guidance are heavily relied upon. They can't afford to psychologically probe him and potentially break his psyche. They probably think there's time for that after Sephiroth, not realizing the cause of Cloud's schizophrenia is Sephiroth.
>>729670086Biggs made peace with it no? He talked to Cloud and maybe Tifa as he died I cant remember. Wedge was thrown out of a window by the whispers mid attack on Shinra HQ. Why would Biggs not be at peace but Wedge was?Also you can see yellow rays/ sparkles when Zakk makes some choices which might be creating new worlds since diverging from fate does that. Bottom line is they will explain it later and we are on hold.>>729670759There can be a good narrative reason but it still feels bad. Specifically the experience because they are dragging this out across the three games and it just removes my desire to care since nothing can be resolved until the third game.
>>729659039its overfrom the very beginning the final fantasy franchise was built on ripping off other games, starting with dragon warrior, the mmos ripped off everquest and wow, tactics ripped off ogre battle (or rather the ogre battle guy sold out to make another one for squaresoft and call it final fantasy)final fantasy was already boring by 6final fantasy 7 wouldnt have been successful at any other time than 1997, it was just luckff8 rode the coattailsnobody liked ff9 despite being a return to "roots"ff10 was another product of right place right time on a new consoleeverything else not listed is irrelevantbasically they need to stop making games called final fantasy. its over
I wonder if something like what Culture Brain did with Flying Dragon and Ninja Boy would work. Action RPG gameplay with platforming in dungeons and the overworld. Boss fights are exclusively turn-based.
Stranger of Paradise already perfected FF combat.
>>729659039Final Fantasy has been solved already.
>>729671252I hated 8 at first but I was wrong. Its great.
>>729669228>What's the consensus on the ending?
2025 and the biggest question is does aerith die in the final fantasy remake?????? (which is more like just a bunch of ugly uninspired unreal engine slop)pathetic state of games and these millennial manchildrenaerith is dead and red13 fucked her corpse in all holes get over it fags
>>729659039For 20 years straight, Final Fantasy fans have been gaslit that no one wants turn-based combat. That it will never sell. That they’re wrong for even wanting it.Expedition 33 destroyed that lie in a single day.
combat was the weakest part of e33 it was everything else that made us put up with the combat retard
>>729671775Yet I don't know a single person who played it. If I trust 4chan, every person on Earth is playing it, AC Shadows, Dispatch, and other astroturfed games.>but muh GOTYYou know GOTY early in the year based on how journos talk about it. They were scared to put too much into Ghost of Yotei and AC Shadows with all the woke pushback (but 4 years ago, they easily could have won GOTY), so they went with a safer pick due to the wind changing.
>>729671775that's implying E33 sold on the basis of its combat, but that logic any turn based game should do 5 million but it doesn't
>>729659039The stories have to leave you with something. This is one of the reasons why E33 won so much, other than the combat system and the soundtrack, and this is the reason why FF7OG became so famous at the time. If they leave you nothing, this resulted in an holed experience and the game fame suffer from this. All the titles they have released after the departure of Sakaguchi has this problem. They're forgettable experiences.
>>729671930>>729671775>>729672013This. E33 sold because it was an original story with entertaining enough characters. The French/Painting feeling and aesthetic made it fee l different.Also the entire cast was attractive white except for an Asian with no shoes. Combat was ok but not what sold the game.
e33 sold because of the magic chink bitchs feet
>>729660669> In a way its great but as a remake of ff7 its incredibly disappointing. Combat is good for rpgs though. The story is shit. They have a background story that is never explained and keeps key info away from you so you can never fully put it together. This is so they can go through all the motions of the original game while holding a background story thread they hopefully will capitalize on with the last game.this is one of the main problems with FF7, after the OG. They used the lore to build up and capitalize on the attention of the fans and hypnotize them in order to buy their products. FF7OG story was linear, at least until the very end, where they decided to leave you suspended about what happened to the main characters. If this didn't occurred, the rest of the "compilation", starting from AC, would never existed.> Saving and simultaneously failing to save Aerith was a huge annoyance. Also dragging the game across three entrees has made cloud really annoying. You are playing a mentally fucked up character while people around him keep quiet about his problems.This is magnified by the fact that they broke the story into parts. If the game was complete since the beginning, some of the "fillers" would haven't been reason to exist and part of the confusion about the story wouldn't be there, for the player had the opportunity to see what happened until the end of it. Breaking into parts failed to create the momentum where you train your character from the beginning of the story, until the end, like what happened in the OG. Now, there's no reason on doing so, for when you will start part 3, the characters will be pre-setted in what SE have decided for the user, making any kind of pre-grinding useless.
>>729659098I like you.
>>729659039turned based is good you fucking tiktok attention deficit piece of shit
>>729659039No need to fix it Rebirth and Intergrade are the best games released in the last decade
>>729673051I loved Remake, but I go back to Rebirth, play for a few minutes, and quit out of boredom.
>>729659039go back to turn based combat and stop getting mogged by indie fr*nch games
>>729673120The open world aspect really doesn't add much. Make large portions of the game meh.
modern/sci-fi setting, ditch the "fantasy" setting its boring as fuck
>>729659039>Obsolete turn-based combatMagnificent bait sir
>>729659039>how to do impossible thingI guess you could just make it a porn game if you want sales but that won't fix it.
>>729659039It was already fixed, anon.
>>729673120>>729673267Then why don't you just follow the main quest? You can skip most of the side content and even do it later, if you like.
>>729674465That's stupidYou're stupid
>>729674590I'm dreading doing the main quest because it's so fucking bad.
>>729674590I already did it all normal hard and achievements. I was just saying the open world doesn't add anything and probably is over all a net negative. A streamlined linear story would keep the pace better.
>>729659039Make it ATB.
worst post of all time above this
I think a lot of the appeal of the 3D turn-based FF games was how cinematic they felt, culminating in X which probably did it best out of any of them. Haven't played E33 but I assume that is the main appeal of that game too, with more of a Western feel in the story and visuals. The action RPG games also try to capture a cinematic feel in the gameplay too, but they do it less successful than the turn based ones I think.
>>729659039Use state-of-the-art turn-based combat like E33.
>>729659039Good characters.Good villain.Shrimple as.FF can be whatever gameplay it wants. After playing Unicorn Overlord, I thought it would be cool for FF to return to a FF12 style programmable gambit system, but with characters able to change jobs mid combat like FF13 Paradigm shifts. But even if they stuck with FF7R's action-menu system, I'd be happy.The main thing FF needs is a cool protagonist, flashy, attractive, fun party members that actually contribute to the game instead of being permanently sidelined like in 16. And a villain or antagonist that we give a shit about. Ardyn was shit. Ultima was shit. FF13s fal'cie antagonist I literally can't even remember the name of was shit.
>>729669228>"What? If Aerith doesnt disappear how will Cloud become a devoted Tifa simp like I am"
>>729671775>Expedition 33Expedition sold for a large part because there was a big hole of high-fidelity AAA turn-based games that FF left since 2009 (XIII). The hunger for it was so large that you could easily release a 6/10 game and people would give it a bonus +2 points. If E33 came out in the late 90s/early 00s it would be a niche title beloved by a few but ultimately unremarkable among the other JRPGs.
>>729677284Are you still mad that the entire heterosexual world agrees Tifa is best girl?
>>729672305The "problem" in regards to the story with XII and XIII is that they aren't protagonist-focused. XII Vaan is the POV but you can tell he was inserted in the late stages of the game. XIII is an ensemble cast. Lightning is the poster girl but she doesn't really get interesting character development.XV had incredible foundation regarding the characters, setting, lore however the open-world ruins the narrative pacing and the fact the story was offered in pieces also didn't help.XVI is a competent game, but in terms of the writing, they missed dearly on one specific type of writing which is character writing. That which endears us to the cast. It's barely present throughout the game.So yeah, for the FF story to be immersive you need:>a complete story/game>protagonist is a part of the narrative>good character writing
>>729674465this E33 = FF is really the most forced shit I've seen in quite a whilea game like xenogears has infinitely more common ground with FF yet is not constantly being shoved into the converation like this
>>729678380Suikoden is probably the closest match I've seen.
>>729678380Its just stupid.I can kinda see someone arguing Lost Odyssey since that's the gooch's game.But E33?Why because it borrowed shit from past FFs?Why not add Legend of Dragoon or the many other JRPGs shat out when FFVII exploded in popularitydumb
>>729676979>The main thing FF needs is a cool protagonist, flashy, attractive, fun party members that actually contribute to the game instead of being permanently sidelined like in 16. And a villain or antagonist that we give a shit about. Ardyn was shit. Ultima was shit. FF13s fal'cie antagonist I literally can't even remember the name of was shit.Ardyn was good. Ultima was average. Barthandelus was indeed bad. It's a shame that Caius is relegated to the sequel which not as many people have tried.
>>729659039I'd stop trying to give it a story
>>729671252Selphie is so cute bros...
>>729678846Selphie supremacy.
>>729678846>>729679050
>>729679175>Zell has 3 guns on his wall
This one was wasted.
