Early game big enemy? 2 masks of damage.Some other early game big enemy? 1 mask of damage.Late game big enemy? 2 masks nerfed to 1 for who knows what reason.Huge boss? Probably 2, but there's no rule.Getting directly hit by a huge attack? 2 masks.Contact damage? 2 masks.This all is just annoying bullshit. It's """""difficult""""""' for difficulty sake, but its not even consistent or meaningful.>Hurr durr, lets make everything hit for 40% of your base health, that's fun.>Oh, and have fun with all the runbacks after dying to a boss, that's good game design (tm).They should've either made all normal enemies deal 1 mask, reserving the 2 mask for bosses.OR.Make some enemies deal 2 masks, but make the really big *attacks* of bosses deal 3 masks of damage. As it stands a ton of bosses deal the same damage as some jobber fodder like the skull brute, which is idiotic. And there's no excuse other than laziness that contact damage with the body of a boss deals the same damage as a direct attack. That's not even a matter of difficulty, just bullshit design. Grazing the boss's sprite is punished equally as much as getting hit with some giant attack with an equally giant windup and tell.And don't get me started on the Last Judge's explosion after the fight, what the fuck am I playing, La Mulana?This game is alright and can be really fun, but there's a lot of annoying trash in it.
i think its kind of a get good issue. because you can just heal after fighting stuff for silk and explore for shards.
>>729720778>muh get goodDid you even read the post?
>>729720069I couldn't stand to play it after a few hours. The game is honest to god kinda bad, but it had tremendous potential.
>>729722519what was so bad about it?
>>729720069left is a miniboss
>>729724790No its not, its a common enemy
>>729720069It was so they could give you the illusion of upgrade progress without really affecting game difficulty. Max health upgrades isn't a huge difference from base health when so many things hit for 2 points.
Fucking Hornet with her daddy issues and white guilt (Pale Being, but the analogy is clearly there). Whatever happened to Little Ghost? The strong, silent type.
>>729720069>This all is just annoying bullshit. It's """""difficult""""""' for difficulty sake, but its not even consistent or meaningful>As it stands a ton of bosses deal the same damage as some jobber fodder like the skull brute, which is idioticBut like how is it inconsistent or artificial though? In OG HK you had 1-2 'elite' enemies in early areas that dealt double damage like the Husk Guards in crossroads, Jellyfish in Fog Canyon or Sporgs in the Fungal Wastes. Are those suddenly bad now too cuz they deal the same double damage as the Radiance? Same thing with Silksong look at Hunter's March, out of all the Skarr enemies only Skarrgards do double damagd. In Far Fields out of all the early-game enemies only Vicious Caranids do double damage. You only start feeling the pressure of more complex and dangerous enemies once you reach Underworks onwards
I had fun with Hollow Knight, that seems a bit absent here
>>729725453Little Ghost ultimately saves the White Guilt lesbian bug and her tranny metaphor lover.
>>729721371All your problems go away if you stop getting hit
The DLCs are gonna be complete cancer
>>729725661Complete kino. They better go all out on the difficulty.
There's no reason why every game needs a completely linear difficulty curve. Hitting a player with some tough stuff early has advantages.
>>729720069>Make some enemies deal 2 masks, but make the really big *attacks* of bosses deal 3 masks of damageIsn't this already in the game? Both Lace and GMS already have specific triple mask attacks
>>729724215Have you played it?
>>729725723>difficultyIf only they did that, instead they're gonna go all out on runbacks, gauntlets and other tedious shit
Gotta love how Silksong is making people indirectly say that Metroid and Symphony of the Night are poorly designed.
>>729720069>And don't get me started on the Last Judge's explosion after the fight, what the fuck am I playing, La Mulana?How many chromosomes do you have to fall for it though?
>>729725836there was 1 maaaaybe 2 runbacks in silksong that were even annoying. you HAVE to get better
>>729720069And you heal 3 masks.Sounds like no issue to me.
Hollow Knight also had many "fodder" enemies deal two mask of damage as well (i.e. Entombed husks/Uomas), but since Silksong's enemy roster is so much larger the double damage feels more ubiquitous
>>729726001>stupid niggertard thinks annoyance = difficulty
I love how /v/ used to hate casuals and now anytime a game dares to be mildly challenging you will get endless threads year after year crying about muh bad game design and muh game is too hardOh yeah and notice how the some of the least terrible threads quality wise are about VNs and adventure games with minimal gameplay?
>>729720069Silksong isn't hard. It's the same basic pattern recognition that the first game has. Enemies dealing double doesn't change that, mechanically, they're just as simple.
>>729720069Boo-fucking-hoo, you heal three hits and can do it in midair. Literally git gud.The only thing that's bullshit is that you get damaged by walking into the boss while they're stunned.
>>729726001The only two runbacks that really annoyed me were Last Judge and Groal, and I fully admit that Last Judge's runback honestly is a bit overhated given it's less than a minute long, and apparently they removed that one really annoying enemy that spawned somewhere inconvenient.The Groal runback is absolute bullfrogshit, though
>>729726143>stupid retard can't hit the right buttons at the right timehey man I beat the game. you're over there dying to cannon fodder, boss gimmicks, and whining about runbacks
>>729720069Contact damage shouldn't exist in sidescrollers period. Besides obvious exceptions like spiked/thorned/burning enemies.
>>729726153No it's totally different. I've got a list of excuses why the difficulty doesn't count, so therefore it's not me being shit but the game's fault for not being hard in the right way.
>>729726345I 100%'d the game, dogshit runbacks are still dogshit
>>729720069You are correct. The right way to enjoy this game is to mod that bs damage out
>>729726317These are the ones I was talking about. If you come in through the other entrance to bilewater there's a closer bench to groal but I never found it before I killed him. The last judge runback got easier after a couple tries
>>729725495>>729725732>>729726108/thread
>>729726543/faggot
>>729725984>How many chromosomes do you have to fall for it though?I wanted to see the boss dying.I knew something was up.But I hoped the devs weren't just assholes. When it killed me I just sighed. It wasn't like "haha, you got me there you cheeky bastard" but rather like listening to a fart joke. Seriously? That's the level we're working here with?
>>729726593cry
>>729726153Good difficult games like Baba Is You don't get discussed, /v/ has been obsessed with bad difficult games that try and fail to copy Dark Souls 1 for the past decade.
>>729726312>>729726187>>729726091>didn't read the posts and defaulted to "get gud" spammingLike clockwork.Go on, read the op post again
>>729726684>I knew something was up.Evidently you didn't, or you'd have moved out of the way.
>>729720069>>729721371>>729725661>>729725836>>729726684>>729726778
>>729726865Disingenuous niggerfaggot
>>729725758But you see Anon, OP didn't play the game
>>729726385I can take or leave contact damage doing two masks of damages but removing it from Silksong entirely would just make the game trivial considering how mobile Hornet already is.
>>729726385You're right, but its so common its hard to get angry at it. The fact that often contact damage is equal to actual attack damage is what's bullshit.>>729726317I got pretty annoyed by the Clockwork Dancers runback. Its not that long, nor difficult, but it *just wastes time*. It adds nothing to the fight. The game wouldn't lose anything if they put the bench right next to the boss room, but no, you have to do this straight line runback.The boss is fun and unique, the themes are interesting, but lets just take a tiny shit on that, so you don't enjoy it too much.And the game has so many moments like this. Reminds me of the quote "perfection is achieved when there's nothing left to take out". And you can improve Silkdong a long by just removing a ton of bullshit from it.
>>729720069That "late game enemy" is just a reskin of an early game enemy. He's supposed to be a pushover because they're pampered ex-pilgrims living in prosperity. These zombies in the choral chambers are mid-game enemies at best, btw
bitches still mad they're getting punished for making mistakes in a game.git. gud.
>>729720069Why exactly do people cry and cry and cry so much about the 2-damage thing? Silksong's heal is more than twice as good as Hollow Knight's heal. So enemies dealing 2-damage instead of 1-damage is a total non-issue.
>>729726821I wanted to see what it is. I have to refight the boss? Oh well, its not the end of the world, I already did it once. It doesn't change that its bullshit.>>729726961Remove double mask damage.Make hornet's base health 3 masks.There, fixed.
>>729726684>hmmm this death animation looks suspicious and the game has pulled lots of punches already, maybe it’s for the best I play it safe and move out of the way so I’ll be safe if it explodes on death >lol nah fuck that let me just stand right next to the boss >dies>WTF BAD GAME DESIGN I think you may be retarded anon
>>729726761/v/ hardly talks about Baba because it's a puzzle game not because it's hard. The only puzzle game /v/ ever brings up nowadays is Void Stranger because it is goonerbait
>>729720069People said this shit all the time then I played the game and basically nothing but the slowest pieces of shit hit for 2You fucking niggers were either paid to lie or completely retarded
>>729727192Bullshit jobbers should NOT deal the same damage as huge bosses, it just devalues the bosses. Contact damage should NOT deal the same damage as direct attacks, that's just lazy.That's the real issue.
>>729727192Hornet’s healing is only good if the player isn’t a complete retard that charges in and tries to facetank everything
>>729727192>healing ydbtg
>>729726684Both the audio and visual cues of Last Judge exploding, are the same as other explosions charging up. Shouldn't you have made the connection that this could hurt?
The way I see it:I was able to finish the game, and I'm so bad at games that most of my play throughs of DMC, bayoneta or W101 a filled with C ranks/stones/consolation prize.So if someone so bad at games like me managed to finish the game, you need to have a level of mental retardation or hand coordination issues to not be able to.
>>729727134Your parents must be punished then
>>729727338It evens out when the "bullshit jobber" shouldn't realistically touch someone who is vigilant. He's not pulling attacks from his asshole, he's charging at you. And you can easily jump or move off the platform.
>>729727380He’s retarded.
>>729725905Symphony of the Night is unironically poorly designed. It is incredibly easy to accidentally over level and effortlessly genocide the rest of the game.
>>729720069yeah silksong is just a sloppily made game. don't overthink it.
>>729727283>hmmm, this looks like something that maaaybe can kill, but that'd be super lame, they'd never do that>lets test that hypothesis though>ah shit, they did do thatIndeed, bad game design.Hunter's March was much better in comparison. Its bullshit, bench included, served some sort of purpose, it set the tone of the area and made it memorable. This explosion adds nothing.
>>729727392Exactly. Same here. I'm getting old and slow and I still figured out every boss pattern well enough to win. Because the game is incredibly fair.
>>729727049Runbacks incentivize you to play better by making each attempt count, because you spend a few extra seconds getting ready for it.They also let you familiarize yourself with the world while reminding you that there's always other paths to explore. And finally, they provide a valuable service to the average player's funds because if you're really struggling with a boss you are probably going to take a breather by killing regular mobs on the way to it, gaining rosaries/shards for each attempt.If you guys had your benches next to every boss you'd start whining about how there's no button to skip bosses that are too hard, because why not? Isn't it the same deal? You being forced to do something you don't enjoy in order to play the game? Youngsters always think endorphin exist to be pumped through their veins at all time and any dev that does something that is a tiny bit inconvient must be an asshole.
>>729727392>>729727636Who said they couldn't finish the game?
>>729727338>enemies with slow, easy to dodge attacks devalues bosses with faster attacks
>>729727595>"let's test that hypothesis">"with my face">"WTF I DIDN'T DESERVE THIS!!"
>>729727338>Bullshit jobbers should NOT deal the same damage as huge bosses, it just devalues the bossesBut why not though? A homing mushroom spore dealt the same masks of damage as an ultra god's light beam attack in the first game and nobody was seething about it back then.>Two mask contact damageIt serves a very clear purpose design-wise though to deter people from just facetanking bosses all the time. If it was incongruous you would just walk into the boss and take the single mask hit to avoid taking double damage from their main attacks. It'll become way too easily cheesable then
>>729727192You have to hit an enemy 9 times to be able to survive another attack. In Hollow Knight it's only 3 for most bosses.
>>729727412>missing the point this hardThe same damage values make the boss seem weaker than it should. That's the point. Bosses should hit harder than random jobbers. All other games somehow understand it, but Silksong seems to have an issue with this. There's no reason to reinvent the wheel.
>>729727686If you are complaining about the difficulty, the implication is it was too unreasonably hard. If you beat it, you triumphed and should be proud. But you aren't. You're incensed. So yeah, I don't believe you did.
>>729727686The clue is in him whining about the early game. Somebody bitching about the last judge would never ignore something like conchfly round 2 or the enemies in act 3.
>>729727338This argument works on regular RPG where your character starts at level 1 with 32 HP + a leather tunic and ends the game level 20 with 1563 HP + heavy mithril armorIn a game like HK that doesn't want this system there is only so much variation in damage the devs can make. Your average rolly-polly mob doing the same damage as an elder god is dumb, but it wouldn't be any less dumb if it took two rollers to do it.
retards and women everywhere get through this game just fine without bitchingt. me, an incompetent
>>729727595>>lets test that hypothesis though>let's test if a boss explodes by standing next to itI can believe you're dumb enough to not notice an incoming explosion.I refuse to believe you're dumb enough to deliberately die to it after the sheer amount of whinging you've done.That's a bullshit excuse and you know it.
>>729720069most of the games issues stem from it blatantly starting as an end game DLC for HK then changing it to be a stand alone game last minute
>>729727778>>729727779>You just didn't beat the game>Okay you beat it but I bet you didn't get all the achievements>Okay you got all the achievements but you didn't have fun and I did so I must be better than youIt's just not a good game. Not even Zelda fans are this gay.
>>729727946Where's your Steel Heart run, son?
>>729728012>7 years after the first game>last minute
>>729725723Yeah all the shitters have already been filtered anyway. They may as well go straight to NKG/PV level difficulty.
>>729728012>Last minuteAh yeah I'm sure in June 2025 they were still on the fence about it.
>>729728025i'm incompetent, as previously stated
>>729728012Good point
>>729728020Neither of those posts moved the goalpost beyond "beat the game." Nobody is saying you have to "find all the fleas before you complain." Like, fuck off with that strawman.
>>729727996At this point he’s either ragebaiting or he’s genuinely retarded
>>729727698I never said anything about deserving you disingenuous fuck. And the only way to test if something damages you in a vidya is indeed with your face.>>729727651>Runbacks incentivize you to play better by making each attempt count, because you spend a few extra seconds getting ready for it.You can achieve the same with an arbitrary countdown, yet I doubt you'd defend that.>They also let you familiarize yourself with the worldNo? You already went down these paths, there's nothing to familiarise yourself with.>reminding you that there's always other paths to exploreOnly retards need reminding of that in a fucking metroidvania.>And finally, they provide a valuable service to the average player's funds because if you're really struggling with a boss you are probably going to take a breather by killing regular mobs on the way to it, gaining rosaries/shards for each attempt.You don't bother killing enemies on a runback unless there's something wrong with you.I don't think anyone in the history of gaming complained when metroid, castlevania and all other games put save rooms right next to bosses. But when the holy Silksong makes you waste time running back like its fucking dork souls, then its some amazing game design discovery.
Uh oh /v/ is struggling with a pattern recognition game again
2 mask contact damage when a boss is stunned is genuine bullshit
>>729728020You dropped the>theymask in record time, huh.But still, tell me why you seem to have no problem with the later bosses that are much harder than the last judge. Seems oddly specific when he's nowhere near the hardest or irritating boss in the game.
I wonder what this guys opinion on Unraveled, Pinstress, or Karmelita is
>>729728115Nobody didn't beat the game except for people who got bored, you're setting up goalposts at an inappropriate social event because you're very autistic.
>>729728139>I never said anything about deserving you disingenuous fuck.You decided (or at least claim to have) tested a theory by putting yourself in mortal danger. And then you died. And then you blamed the game and not your shit survival instinct. You are definitely implying you didn't "deserve it" you double-digit IQ tard.
umm...last judge is a woman
>>729728012>make sequel for fans that mastered the first game with complete disregard for bandwagoners and "massive HK fans" that only got the basic ending.based
>>729728025Steel heart is invalidated by pause+quit anyway
>>729728208>"I-I-I COULD HAVE BEAT IT IF I WANTED TO!!!"Yeah buddy, sure you can.
>>729722519lemme guess, git gud?
>>729728160Tbh I don't think it really happens that much, maybe once or twice when you familiarize yourself with the controls and on some particular boss (Sister Splinter IIRC got me a couple times), but the rest of the time, it's not really a big problem. When the boss is stunned you're generally either going to heal or just wail on him and it'll be fine.
>>729728165NtaLast judge is currently in my top three of bosses I struggled with the most, I'm maybe like a quarter or third through act 3 so probably more shit coming up though Only one I can immediately say was more of a struggle is the bitch with the threads where you spawn outside her tomb or whatever when you die That might've been because I had by far the worst crest possible for the fight and was too lazy to run to a bench to change it tho
>>729728226
>>729728278That's between you and God (Gaben, who personally watch your playthrough and reward you with the achievements).If you know you've done it legit, that's what truly matter
>>729728116I prefer to think of it as someone taking one for the team and acting like a clown for everyone's amusement.
The contact damage part is terrible, but what's even worse is that a stunned enemy still keeps the contact damage.It's retarded.
>>729727595>but that'd be super lameYou're incapable of explaining why
>>729728139>Only retards need reminding of that in a fucking metroidvania.Big talk calling other retards, Mr I-wonder-why-this-boss-is-steaming
i think most of the enemies/bosses just kinda suck and people wrongly attribute 2 damage as the reason
>>729720069Pretty much all damage in games is arbitrary. What's the difference if it's 2/4 pips of health vs 20/100 or 58/1432?
>>729728453I am fully on board with contact damage but absolutely fuck stunned enemy contact damageESPECIALLY when you knock them out of the air and their stunned body lands on top of you
I don't understand. Last Judge has telegraphed attacks that all have safe places to stand. The only slight bullshit is it explodes after death.
>>729728469You don't get it bro, he KNEW it would kill him, which is why he stood next to it.
>>729728481Yes, but it's the static "dodge punish" bosses like Cogwork Dancers that suck, not the ones people usually complaing about.
>>729728493/v/ will shit on JRPGs which require the most intricate balance in videogames across 80 hours of constantly changing numbers, and then they'll say it doesn't matter in poorly balanced action games that get hotfixed every 2 weeks because they know they fucked up the balance.
>>729728574Cogwork dancers was a kino fight, not every boss has to be difficultIt was thematic, unique and cool
>>729728528They give you a few frames + sound cue to move out of the way though.It's really the opposite that fucks me up, when you're pogoing a boss and they get stunned, I don't know if it's the flash + ping or the change in the boss' hitbox, but it made me mess up the pogo and take damage.
>>729728160Any contact damage when an enemy is stunned is bullshit.>>729727701>making the game more believable and consistent would make it easier to cheese, so instead of working around it, lets just add dumb damage where it doesn't belongyeah, no.>A homing mushroom spore dealt the same masks of damage as an ultra god's light beam attack in the first game and nobody was seething about it back then.Because through most of the 1st game the idea of different damage values wasn't even on the table. But once you open this can of worms, then you should deal with the consequences. What should deal more or less damage? Does it make sense for that thing to deal more damage? How much? Etc.Again, good old Castlevania and Metroid don't really have that issue, since they can have damage ranging all the way from 1 point to hundreds, and those damage values are used accordingly. In Silkdong the values seem totally arbitrary. Even more so after the patch that nerfed some enemies.
>>729728549No, the bullshit is her jumping randomly on top of you. Everything else is trivial but this one can catch you off guard.
>>729720069It’s weirdly inconsistent which is 1 or 2 masks
>>729728549Lots of bandwagon hoppers got massively filtered by last judge, so there's more material someone who, for the sake of argument, is severely assmad at being shit at the game and wants ammunition to shitpost.I think one of the problems people had is hoarding their tools, when they're very obviously supposed to be used against bosses. Most of the bosses people have issue with can be made vastly easier by hammering them with high damage tools to skip phases.
>>729728225I even said in OP that it's La Mulana tier bullshit. But it doesn't fit your narrative so you think it must be about something else.
>>729728706>where it doesn't belongHollow Knight games are movement heavy, especially Silksong. Having the game punish poor movement only makes sense. Of course it belongs. And to be clear, contact damage is ALWAYS the player's fault.
>>729728856The game is movement heavy but it takes several hours to get a slow ass pogo and it takes even longer to get the actual good pogo.The moveset fucking sucks and made me quit once I got to the citadel. I beat the clockwork dudes and just got tired of the game.Prince of Persia Lost Crown is a more fun and engaging metroidvania.
>>729729034>it takes even longer to get the actual good pogo.But it's right there when you start the game?
>>729728651Difficulty junkies can't comprehend things like that. If it doesn't easily kill you, it must be shit fight, simple as. That's the type of person that creams Silksong.>>729728549>>729728731>>729728381>having problems with Last Judgelmao? All attacks have clear and simple dodges. The only thing shit about the boss is the runback, explosion, and 2 mask contact damage (even when fucking stunned).
>>729729262Loved SilksongDid Steel Heart completely legit.My favorite fight is First Sinner and it's easy as fuck by even midgame standard.
Problem is early on the game feels hard while toward the end it feels a lot easier. Khaan for example feels like a boss you would face before the Last Judge.
>>729728856>You might logically think that a stunned enemy is harmless>Well, you're wrong and should be punished accordingly, this game isn't logic-heavy, but movement-heavyThere's also this thing called "suspension of disbelief", and it suffers as well from garbage like this.
>>729727768>All other games somehow understand itBut they don't. In Mario platformers if you get hit by anything you lose 1 'health'. It's not really re-inventing the wheel. Minor mobs deal one damage, tougher mobs do 2 and bosses do 2 in Silksong. That's what it is and the areas and combat were presumably designed from the ground up around this.If anything having a static damage system allows health upgrades to feel more meaningful and bosses to scale up in speed and complexity vs stats. Compare to an actual RPG or adventure game where you often just scale up to ultimately perform mostly the same relative to the area you're in or else break the game entirely by finding the cheese. Enemies in the endgame area of Zelda are hitting for 8 vs 2 hearts in the early game. But in the endgame you have 16 hearts vs 4 hearts. What has really changed? Silksong enemies mostly just get faster as you go through the game, they don't really get much bigger and vicious looking, so it's not even much of a disconnect as you go on. Ok, logically maybe grandma silk should one shot you with every attack compared to the damage of the green bugs in the prologue, but that would just make the game worse.As for contact damage, the devs decided they wanted it to be the same damage and that spacing is important in fights. You don't have to like the decision but it was a conscious choice and that's all there is to it.
>>729729439Feels like Khann is made to be fought with random add-ons enemies popping up constantly and being killed by his own attacks.
>>729729463This game does not make you FEEL like a spiderwoman. I cannot continue.
SEA OF SORROW DOKO
>>729728706>Because through most of the 1st game the idea of different damage values wasn't even on the tableBut it literally was on the table though. Throughout the first game every area had at least several enemies designated to hit for double masks of damage. And they ranged from smaller fodder to mini-bosses, but the point was that it added variation to the enemy encounters so that the difficulty curve wasn't linear. You had a mix of easier fodder you could fight and more dangerous enemies that catch you off guard.>In Silkdong the values seem totally arbitrary. Even more so after the patch that nerfed some enemiesYou keep bringing up that one pilgrim enemy but other than that the damage values of the enemies were hardly changed? And I don't really see how it's arbitrary when it remains pretty consistent throughout the game. Bigger hulking beasts hit for two masks (i.e. Skull Brutes, Ductsuckers, Rhinogrunds) while more nimble later game enemies deal two masks in "flurry-style" attacks (i.e. Pharlids, Citadel caste, Automatons etc...) You keep on bringing up the immersion-breaking consequences of the implementation but you're unable to articulate the reasons why other than "this is not how they did it in Metroid".
>>729726778I read it, and my genuine reply to it remains "git gud", although I even had the courtesy of explaining myself.If ctrl+f:ing "git gud" and crying makes you feel better, go right ahead.
>>729729523>But they don't. In Mario platformersStopped reading right there, what the fuck are you even comparing?
>>729729850silksong is a platformer.
>>729727192>Hornet heals>become exhibitionistI like Silksong
>>729729724Blub blub
>>729729439>khann is a meh fight but has a visually awesome area and a hard but enjoyable gauntlet>karmelita is a great fight and reaching her unlocks a whole new area of the far fields>green prince is a good fight, is great from a narrative standpoint and also comes with a new area>nyleth is a piss easy gimmick boss nestled in some tiny part of the citadel entrance and gets completely upstaged by her shrine guardian
>>729726684Don't lie, you were seething.
>>729729751>I'll ignore all the anons talking about why the damage values are arbitrary>"haha, you have no argument!"I stopped caring about entertaining your bullshit.
>>729729724>thalassophobia ludo incoming
>thirty five hours in>still die to bosses in three hits because only 6 masks
>>729729956>>729730151I hope TC go all out on the save me niggerman deepsea shit
>>729729930So is Celeste. And Spelunky. And Katana Zero. And Another World. And Sonic Advance.And it doesn't make sense to compare Silkdong to any of them. But retards like you try to anyway.
>>729730273People would compare those games to HK all the time though
>>729730103>"The damage values are completely arbitrary and inconsistent with the first game!">Ignores how the damage values make sense in-game and are consistent in both HK games>"Buh-uh-uh yeah I stopped caring anyways"If you're going to be a disingenuous nigger, can you at least not be so whiny about it?
>>729728706>Because through most of the 1st game the idea of different damage values wasn't even on the tableWhy are you brazenly lying about something that can be disproven by scrolling the wiki for 15 seconds?
>>729729850>ALL other games understand it>here's a very popular well regarded game series that doesn't>AUGH BLEEUUGHHHwhatever, there's other games where everything does a single point of damage. But whatever let's argue the minutia of this instead the actual whole point of my original post because you'd like that.
nobody cares about damage consistency between two 2D metroidvania games, and it's an absurd standard that doesn't get applied to any other game series. People are trying to find hacks around git gud replies and I won't be baited into arguing about the ludo narrative dissonance of a game about bugs. It's the evolution of the>erm it wasn't HARD, I mean it was hard, but only because of how BORING it was, so tedious. I just couldn't beat the boss because of how bored I was I kept falling asleep during it or somethingcope
>>729727595Can't tell if this is delusion or retardation
>>729731025>>ALL other games understand it>>here's a very popular well regarded game series that doesn't>it plays totally differently, has different goals and target audience, but I'll still compare themWhat's next, you'll compare Baba is You to silkdong? Mad Rat Dead? How insane do you want to get? Maybe some jrpg? Or Animal Crossing?
>>729725453When does she state she hates being a pale being? In one of the endings she even takes GM's position with no remorse
>>729731261>nobody cares about damage consistency between two 2D metroidvania games, and it's an absurd standard that doesn't get applied to any other game series.Never played any game with different damage values?
my thing is, you can keep the high damage and contact bullshit, IF it didnt take an eternity and a fucking half for everything to die.these things should not take 7-8 hits to die, the tiny bugs that turn to spikes shouldnt take 3 hits.
>>729731659you didn't read my post, I'm not going to read yours or respond to it. In my head you are retarded and that's not going to change, you've lost your shot.
>>729720069>it's okay when Metroid does it
>>729731787I do not sit down while playing super metroid and parse how much damage a zoomer does vs a ridley tail attack and then quit the game if they don't make logical sense. And if I die to Ridley because he did more damage than a beefier looking hit from Kraid, I do not blame my death on ludo narrative dissonance
>>729732242Metroid does it?>>729732035If you fail to understand why Mario doesn't belong in the discussion here, then what do you even want to talk about?
Anon lost all credibility when he went on his spiel about testing his hypothesis with the Last Judge death explosion
I didn't beat silksong because i reached the bilwater boss with the gauntlet and knew there was no possible way I would enjoy the combination of shard farming and runbacke even with the secret bench(that seems to always land me in maggot water anyway). I'd have to mod it to continue on. Game was okay though, but I think the music and mystery was worse than hollow knight.
>>729732427Contact damage and different damage based on enemy.You didn't know?
>>729728828You have no idea what constitutes "La Mulana-tier." There's no obscure item chasing, no decoding notes or using a cypher to progress, just normal-ass Metroidvania progression, gated by arenas and bosses. Shut the fuck up.
>>729728160I would not object to being unable to take damaged from a stunned boss. That's the first good criticism I've seen in this thread, but it's still a nitpick.
>>729720069play the game unpatched then? it's on GOG, you should be able to find the og release with ease
>>729729439Khan is the devs cutting you some slack for surviving an entire gauntlet of genuinely tough, aggressive pawns, all or almost all of which you never encountered before so you probably don't have their patterns down yet. He's the easiest of the trio personally, but his heart is still harder to get than Nyleth's.
>>729733652I had a harder time with Seth than the gauntlet, especially when you can skip 75% of it on a retry. They should have just given him adds.
>>729733808Seth was a great fight, but he didn't really take me many tries at all. He telegraphs very nicely, and he has very dependable retaliation windows. Especially after the shield explosion.
>>729732584It’s ok when Metroid does it because Metroid comparatively gives you 8 times the health to work with, primarily ranged attacks that are far more consistent to hit with safely, and scaling that actually feels meaningful because everything doesn’t fuck you scale its defense with your already boring +4 damage “””upgrade””” so you can actually casually stomp everything from the mid game when you’re in the endgame instead of having to worry about the same assholes that gave you trouble at the beginning when you return to those areas. I will never not be mad at how hollow knight handles its damage. Fuck you being able to kill a boss in 3 less hits is not at all worthy of spending hours questing and exploring for a damage upgrade that does nothing else.
>>729720069The only thing wrong with this game is touch damage.
When I finally killed last judge I stood there confidently to look cool as his body crumbled next to me. The explosion was surprising and killed me. I thought it was hilarious personally>>729733993Agreed. Sometimes there should be contact damage, but not all the time. In the first game the Knight took contact damage for touching Hornet
>>729720069The game really isn't difficult at all. Certainly not enough to warrant typing all of that out.
>>729733958Metroid is shit, it's designed for you to get hit, it's not designed so you can avoid all damage.Metroid also has damage upgrades, retard.I swear you people are retarded and have no idea what you're talking about.
>>729733958ok because easier
>>729733993It would be too easy if you didn't take touch damage. Enemy attacks are too infrequent to be the only threat to the player.
>>729732565This except actually thinking critically and realizing that it's a lot easier to avoid his attack just staying on the bottom and allowing myself to enter the water and overall never needing to go out of my way to farm shards.The game isn't hard and requires only very little thinking skills, but I do agree that for a lot of people that barely play video games, it probably shocked them to their core to play a game that doesn't literally play itself. That's the real problem. So many people play games now that "accessibility" is "literal retards expect to beat games now we cannot have even the slightest amount of asking the player to think for themselves"
>>729733993>>729734310Touch damage is nullified when your attack connects, which I think is very smart design. Even Karmelita's insanely large jump spin is completely nullified by 1 connecting strike. It made her entire fight WAY more manageable when I figured that one out.
>>729734787The game also heavily emphasizes positioning and mobility which would be meaningless if you could hug enemies and jump directly over them to avoid their attacks.
>>729720069You heal for 3 instead of 1
>>729728278Devs have a perfect capability of disabling save quit at any moment. It is in fact disabled in certain places. It also creates checkpoints outside of benches so you cant go somewhere, get an upgrade and save-quit to go right back safely.So explain me this, why is save quitting considered cheating in steel soul.
What happens if you kill the Verdana boss before you finished hunting all the critters? Can you even go back afterwards? I made sure I hunted them all, I'm just curious what would have become of my hunting quest if I failed.
>>729735097If you have to ask, you'll never know.
>>729735228The journal auto-complete with every entry from every mob in Verdania.Same if you beat Khann too fast and didn't unlock all entries of the mobs in Coral Tower
>>729735342That's very considerate. I probably shouldn't have been so meticulous about killing them all then. But at least I killed the optional elk boss, which I read isn't required for 100%.
>>729720069I didn't play Silksong because the original was everything I hate about Metroidvanias, but I'm glad it's at least exposing a bunch of fake gamers that just play games for a sort of power fantasy feeling with zero challenge
>>729729439>Khaan for example feels like a boss you would face before the Last Judge.Almost like... he was until the cut
>>729735724What do you hate about metroidvanias?
People keep trying to make objective statements of what should and shouldn't happen and what is wrong and right in regards to difficulty. There's really not much that can objectively be said about how hard a game should be. At a certain point it's just the right difficulty for your enjoyment or it isn't. It is ok to personally not like a game because it is too hard for you. This is the unspoken intent of git gud as a meme.
>>729735724It's even better because most of what primed them to think they "deserve" to win is Hollow Knight to begin with.
>>729736083>At a certain point it's just the right difficulty for your enjoyment or it isn't.Yep. Besides, I think a game is way more memorable if it's a rollercoaster of challenging vs. relief. A perfect slope of challenge is just exhausting to climb when you know the next fight is just going to be worse than the one you just scraped by on, and probably results in more people quitting before completion.
>>729734681>metroid also has damage upgradesMEANINGFUL upgrades nigger. You don’t just get 4 flat damage on your 9 damage swing that caps at 21 and has buffs to enemy health meaning that your effective difference between minimum and maximum power is 160% better with no extra effects after 40 hours of gameplay. Instead each damage upgrade comes with a new effect: freezing enemies for platforming or easy avoidance, going through walls for bypassing one way doors or safely removing enemies and obstacles before entering an area, penetrating all enemies and doing damage per frame vastly increasing damage against large opponents, splitting the projectile into 3 equally powerful parts for triple the damage if you land all of them. The difference between you at the beginning and end numerically is literally 1000% higher than what you started with and you actually get to use that power to easily overcome early stuff you skipped because you wanted to gain power first. The reward for exploring and powering up in HK is downright unsatisfying. Here have this massive world to explore and try and 100% and your reward is being slightly more powerful than you were at the very beginning of the game because we want everything the be the same challenge no matter what. Just remove the progression entirely if that’s what you want to do fucking morons.
>>729737021Having more tools and only marginally more power is still a sense of progression to me. I don't care that I don't get the ability to shitstomp a piece of content by waiting until act 3 to do it. I'm stronger than I was and I can very much feel it, that's all that matters.
>>729737021>t. hasn't started a new game without any of the mobility upgrades, tools, parry etc
>>729720069I think there should only be single mask damage in Act 1 personally. Act 2 is much easier than Act 1 and that doesn't seem right.
>>729726742gay
>>729737021Nice rationalization.As if Silksong didn't have other upgrades too, aside from raw damage.I'm so fucking tired of Metroid apologists. It's a very cool game but it's guilty of every sin contrarians attribute to other games like HK and worse.HK and Silksong are better versions of Super Metroid. It's time you contrarians accept it.
>>729737398>Having upgrades is easier than not having upgrades.Sounds like nearly all RPGs.
>>729737398>Act 2 is much easier than Act 1That's because you got better by playing DUH.If you go back to playing the game right now you'll breeze through act 1.
>>729737316You get the run within 20 minutes and literally non of the tools matter for the needle except the flint which you can also get within the first 20 minutes. Clawline is the only mid to late game genuine improvement that I miss for any real period of time. The parry is a basic game mechanic and wander uses it the best, and can also be gotten within the first 20 minutes. You will be as powerful as you ever will be within an hour and then have to carry that all the way till late game when you get the voltvessels and twin sling and can start doing fuck tons of tool damage, which still doesn’t solve how shit the basic attack of the game feels to use.
>>729735519Enemies you can totally miss out on defeating don't count for Hunter's Journal completion. Some won't show in the journal (like if you don't fight Shakra) but you can still get achievements and whatnot
>>729737729The basic attack only feels like shit if your benchmark is how well it enables you to skip enemy cycles. I don't give a shit about having to dodge enemies for about the same length of time the entire game.
>>729737410Nice cope. SM does more with less. HK bloats itself and gets by on good art direction.
>>729737729>I personally don't care about the upgradesCool. I enjoy using tools, having crests and having my double jump, wall jump and air dash.
>>729726865>fromslop sheep>ignoring any criticism not beating the allegations
>>729737769I somehow missed both Shakkra and Zanzibart's fights (whatever his real name was, I forget). Apparently you have to do things just so, fuck me.
>>729737398And Act 3 should have 3 mask damage
>>729737901If something is bloated that is Metroid. First you cry about simple damage upgrades and then you say this?Make up your mind, schizo.>>729737729>how shit the basic attack of the game feels to use.Have we played a different game?I beat plenty of bosses with just the nail. The feeling of the base weapon is one of the strong points of HK/Silksong.
>>729737921Sidegrades anon. They are all sidegrades. There are 6 proper upgrades in the whole game: the initial spell, the initial tool, the dash, the wall jump the clawline, and the double jump. All of these change the way you interact with the game at a basic level. Everything else is a side grade to what you already have or a tiny numerical increase.>>729738384When the fuck did I say Metroid was bloated? Nice job making a schizo accusation while responding to voices that aren’t there. We played the same game. Nail at its base feels fine to use. Going 40 hours and searching for everything possible to make it better since it’s the primary weapon and ending up with a very slight power up is not.
>>729737410nta but super's sequence breaking is still a gem of a thing that's only been captured in passing by other titles (especially other metroid titles) and deserves the unique praise for it, regardless of how much of that was a happy accident. That's all I wanted to add.
>>729738785When you lauded Metroid you lauded it for things someone could call bloat.>>729738882And how does sequence breaking make a game better?
>>729738785>Nail at its base feels fine to use. Going 40 hours and searching for everything possible to make it better since it’s the primary weapon and ending up with a very slight power up is not.See? This is the opposite of bloat. You want bloat, not simplicity.
>>729738785Also not the anon youre replying to but I find the sidegrade system with limited actual upgrades and set damage more interesting, personally. Not always in practice, since some act 3 bosses are just weirdly easy, but generally throughout the game enemies get faster and harder to fight by design rather than just being what is essentially constant DPS checks to your damage upgrades.Yeah that means early game enemies still hit you hard but you still have traditional damage and health increases to mitigate this, so it's not that big of a deal. The potential upside this has on the difficulty curve is better to me than the feeling of being a god when you go back to the tutorial zone.
>>729729439I won't say I'm a pro or anything, but I literally can't understand why I can't beat Khaan, but no other boss has given me problems. Even Last Judge didn't really cause me this many problems and Last Judge has a much larger moveset.
>>729739001>And how does sequence breaking make a game betterIt's an extension of the feeling you get from HK when you drop into deep nest early, just with more ways to purposefully or accidentally accomplish it. Also Super Metroid is pretty short and arcadey in a game that already has a timer and rewards tied to that timer, so it just adds more ways to replay and beat the game in a unique way that is fun to me.
>>729738785>proper upgrades >Everything else is a side gradeAnd Aria of Sorrow is lauded as a masterpiece.
>>729732025You can melt most enemies using tools silk skills btw.
>>729720069>enemy hits hard but is piss easy to avoid>enemy doesn't hit hard but actually tries to hit you so it's more of a threatI don't see a problem.
>>729720069No the damage isn't bullshit you're just extremely bad.
>>729727192Because it's inconsistent and annoying
>>729739337Personally I had trouble with Khaan because I by the time I got to him I was already mentally checked out from the game, between all the backtracking and fetch quests. I beat him by switching to wanderer and spamming attack until I got lucky enough with the pattern. The only Act 3 boss I actually got excited for was Carmelita, the others I just got through because I wanted be done with the game. I didn't even bother with the 100%
>>729739337>>729741260I'm a retard boomer with no reflexes and beat Kahn the first time, every move is telegraphed.
>>729720069Only thing I'd change is making it so you start with 6 masks, that way your first mask upgrade feels meaningful
>>729739668Exploration does that in HK.
>>729741447It is telegraphed, but other bosses feel more fluid with their jumps between specific moves, Khaan is different in that for me, where you're PUSHED to not move around the arena as much due to his attacks.
>>729742056>get told where not to stand>don't stand thereHave you never played a game where you see some kind of danger indicator and avoid it?
I need to finish Nine Sols before the sale ends to get Silksong but granny is beating my ass...
>>729740695It's very consistent though.
>>729742197Yes anon, I avoid his attacks fine, it's his body that I end up running into because his movement isn't consistent.
I'm tired of the fladerization of games where they sacrifice pacing and game design for difficultys sake.Gaming is now a constant circle jerk of trannies that spam git gud to each other. There is no discussion, no interest on having a good gaming experience, only bait after ragebait and spam.Op is right, having each attack and enemy deal 2 damage and getting masks does almost no difference. It's retarded anyways because you can still face tank bosses with beastcrest (this game SUCKS at rewarding the player for exploring/defeating enemies)
>>729726153Artificial difficulty ≠ challengingYou can pick ANY game, make all enemies Instakill, and the game becomes harder.Difficulty was never the end goal of gamedesign. You are just a fat nerd trannie playing games 24/7 and filtering everything through those lenses, because you can't compete elsewhere.
>>729720069Idk seems pretty consistent to me>Majority of Act 1 fodder hits for one mask>Big savage beasts and bigger bosses hit for two masks>Duelists bosses with more complex movesets hit for one mask. Some have special attacks that hit for two>Act 2 introduces more enemies that hit for two masks in multi-slash attacks>Act 3 fully transitions with everything hitting for double damageWhat is the issue here?
>>729743934The issue is he sucks at video games
>>729742356It's very consistent, he always does the same thing. Watch a video of the fight. I always do it for clarity because I'm an anxious person and when I have to play it's hard for me to focus but if I watch someone else do it I can focus and apply what I learned.
I do think its damage is retarded.There's an easy example, the last judge.You can't even begin to explain why she does the same damage unbuffed as she does buffed.
>>729743934This is not true at all with silksong.
>>729720069I finally completed the game a couple days ago cause act 3 burned the fuck out of me, i legitimately would have thought the game was fine if act 2 was the end.The game is a mess of design. And the funny thing is, the hardest bosses would take me like 30 mins to beat at most, which is nothing compared to hours in other games spent trying to complete bosses or sections. But most every boss in silksong id rather never fight again while other very difficult ones in other games im fine dying to and reattempting because they are actually fun.It's a dickish game at it's core. They weren't trying to make the game "good" they wanted it to be "difficult".I can see them thinking during playtests "hey this is too easy cause its well designed, make it harder"
>>729730054Were? He's clearly still seething about it
>>729725659You could say the same thing if the game crashed and broke your save file every time you died.
One of the most bullshit moments to me with contact damage is narrowly avoiding an attack by running away and then when i turn hornet around to punish i touch the enemy and that is simply retarded.Imagine if in a fighting game your opponent whiffs a DP and you dash forward to get your close heavy punish combo but just get slapped by ryu's giant ballsack hitting your face on the way down.
>>729745347Yeah, it would be cool if Steel Soul was the default mode.
>>729745121Explain how I'm wrong>Majority of Act 1 fodder hits for one maskThis is true for the Marrow all the way till Blasted Steps. The exceptions are always limited to 1-2 of the stronger enemies in an area.>Big savage beasts and bigger bosses hit for two masksSee Fourth Chorus, Moorwing, Last Judge>Duelists bosses with more complex movesets hit for one mask. Some have special attacks that hit for twoSee Lace, Widow, Phantom>Act 2 introduces more enemies that hit for two masks in multi-slash attacksi.e. Citadel and Underworks enemies>Act 3 fully transitions with everything hitting for double damageVoid-threaded enemies
>>729741804Jesus idk how else to make it clear im not shitting on HK, just defending super metroid>>729742665What if i liked the difficulty as it was?
>>729742814>Artificial difficulty ≠ challengingThis is an arbitrary, personal distinction in most cases. If enemies all do one less damage, it becomes non artificial, because...?
Make way better metroidvania coming through>Better acrobatic combat>Better pacing>Actually rewarding exploration>Not hard just for the sake of being hard>Still offers side challenges with rewards if you want to scream git gud at others>More clean, less cluttered visualsIt's just better but silksong trannies reeeee if you dare to imply silksong is a flawed as fuck game and worse in every aspect compared to the original hollow knight
>>729742814That's not what artificial difficulty means.Artificial difficulty is when your skill doesn't matter, i.e bugged/misleading mechanics, leaps of faith mixed with death pits, glitches or actually random deaths.If your skill matters it isn't artificial. You can argue if it's cheap and/or lazy the way the average bethesda game is, but not artificial.
The difficulty is fine, I'm pretty average at games in general and I beat the true ending. Game isn't for you, just stop playing if you aren't having fun.
>>729748205>the only difficulty is in the side stuffGames like this are always shit
>>729748561Metroidvanias have never been known for main game difficulty the difficulty always comes from skipping upgrades or side stuff but of course zoomers like you that grew up in a post-soulslop world think games have to be "le hard" just so you can show them online.
>>729748656Metroidvanias have supposedly been all about those sequence breaks and skips from the first moment anon, so yeah, difficulty is an important part, and cordoning it off to exist specifically in side content is shameful.
>>729748656I didn't know Rabi-Ribi was inspired by Dark Souls
>>729748205fun fact this game opencritic average would be really close or above silksong if it weren't for a single PC Gamer review that trashed the game for things hollow knight suffers from to an aven greater degree like pacing and taking too long to find upgrades
>>729721371git gudders never do
>>729748205I can't get over how stupid the cover looks
>>729720069>Hurr durr, lets make everything hit for 40% of your base health, that's fun.>Oh, and have fun with all the runbacks after dying to a boss, that's good game design (tm).Thats literally Souls formula and people love it. DOesn't matter if youre fighting a dog or a demigod, everything needs to kill you in 2-3 hits because that how you make a game hard.
Comparing this game to La-Mulana cuz it has troll moments and traps is like calling Limbo a kaizo game just cuz you have to do platforming maneuvers mid-air
>>729748226Bloating enemy damage is artificial difficulty. It leads to less learning and padding if it comes with a runback.
>>729750993>having to play better to make less mistakes means less learning
>>729751195>Make every enemy one shot you>Soulsfags eat it up and claim it's the best game everIt's that easy uh
