>>729947550
The normal-fag masses don't want things that are 'good' or of substance, they just want a distraction.

It takes actual skill and reflexes to be good at instead of copy pasting a build from the internet and abusing gameplay mechanics to bypass difficulty.

>>729947550
The games aren't that good.

>>729947550
There is a learning curve to handling Ryus movement and each encounter requires the player to memorize the enemies movesets. These two things alone filter 90% of gamers.

>get some distance
>do the charging ultimate attack
>chain another one until you kill everything
>if you can't get space just jump around spamming flying swallow until you can
This covers 90% of the encounters in this "difficult" game
And the other 10% are memes like bow combat or mashing buttons with the flails versus ghost fish

>>729947550
Ninja Gaiden WAS a Shitbox exclusive back in the day. Of course it's less approachable than its competitors.

>>729949547
This is true, only except flying swallow you spam jump off the wall attacks, which have a shitton of invulnerability built into them.

It was stuck in xbox hell for too long

>>729947613
Mindbroken by SoulsCHADS like every NGsissy

>>729949547
How to tell someone never played above normal

>>729952619
Anon, high difficulty fights in NG come down to UT spamming, because enemies won't let you do anything else.
https://youtu.be/jbPkeBBfYxM?list=PLLkZiKEkqWjJ4oKhiDC-wxYo__0L-QsXY

>>729947550
As someone that speedruns Sigma. The biggest problem with Ninja gaiden is onboarding.
Too many things about it are obscure and downright stupid from a logical standpoint. Like being able to block in the middle of attacks or block out of being hit. Or being able to roll out of guard breaks. These are all amazingly fun and great mechanics but again, if I am not there to explain it to someone then the game needs to at least throw hints about it so people can actually learn to play.

And this extends to almost every Team Ninja game. There is always at least a good 50 hour time commitment before you can get to appreciate the contents of the game. Platforming can be extremely fun when you know the levels and execute it well as opposed to the chore it is if you're playing casually.

Again the time commitment before someone can see why Ninja gaiden 1(black and Sigma included) is good is very high. And because there are so many frustrations and beating your head against the wall unlike casual soulslop that keeps your progress at all points... Well people bounce off.

Some things seriously suck. Like aiming. Or the boss fights if you can even call them that. The game is asking a lot of players and it's clear why people would rather just play Elden Trash and get their instant gratification fighting and low commitment exploration.

>>729947742
Exactly this. NG demands pattern recognition, situational awareness, and mechanical execution all at once. Most people play like they’re still stuck in Devil May Cry light-canceling mobs into juggles and get obliterated. They’ve never been punished for mashing, so when a game does it, they scream “bad design.” NG isn’t just "hard," it’s demanding in a way that forces mastery. That’s not what most players want - they want passive difficulty that feels rewarding without needing to engage on a deep level.

Ninja Gaiden is 100% combat. It has nothing going for it beyond that. That’s why games like DMC, Soulsborne, and God of War are better, because they have actual level design, story, characters, exploration, platforming, puzzles, etc

>>729953990
To expand upon this. Recently I've been watching some friends play through Stranger of Paradise. They are not too far in the game and are playing co-op the entire time with ranged builds. Bosses actually don't stand a chance with the jobs they're running. But at the same time, they have absolutely no clue how to play the game.

In fact I am willing to say they haven't played Stranger of Paradise at all because they have never put themselves in a place where they have to use the game's mechanics. They don't even know how to generate MP or that red attacks can't be blocked for example. Or that Job Switching can cancel their current skills.

And I think it's a shame but at the same it's a lot like Ninja Gaiden. All the people talking about how deep Stranger of Paradise get dwarfed by the massive amount of people that would rather be Ninja Dogs and not explore Team Ninja's deep, complex, and frankly well designed gameplay mechanics.
But the player needs to want to explore that depth, and most players just don't care about that stuff.

They are the type of people that keep saying "Oh I want a challenge, I want well execute mechanics that make sense, I want good combat." And then play on Normal spamming the best most broken attack from a distance.

>>729947550
Why Sigma, this game is SHIT. Should have posted NGB instead.

>>729953990
I've recently started playing NG for the first time and the first two bosses - Murai and Doku were a culture shock for me. I've never seen bosses being able to outright ignore 90% of your moveset and block in the middle of their attack animations. I think the general flow of the game didn't settle in for me until I completed the normal difficulty and a good deal of ninja trials.

>>729954389
>Didn't play Black award

>>729955001
The bosses in NG all suck because they're so inconsistent.

>>729955001
It is a great journey. If you want to challenge yourself these are the game to do it. But IMO Team Ninja is much MUCH better at gameplay with Nioh 2 and onwards.

Of course don't use the one-shot builds and you'll enjoy the growth a lot.

What Ninja Gaiden does MUCH better than later Team Ninja games is multi-target fights. The way you can seamlessly switch from one target to the other is nothing short of beautiful. Controlling fights when you know how to CC, when to do certain attacks without being punished... It's so beautiful and good and fun. That said Nioh 2 and Onward boss fights are amazing. Actually fun boss fights with characters you're able to customize to your liking.

>>729955501
I hate how Team Ninja hasn't made a game that fuses the crowd control from their older games and 1v1 combat of their newer ones.

>>729947550
The games arent hard on the easy dog difficulty arent they?
Most Souls and Elden Ring players play games on their easiest difficulties or Normal/Medium at most.

>>729955913
So what you're saying is... Ninja Gaiden should get rid of the difficulty options and force everyone to play on Master Ninja, right?

>>729956023
Yeah,nice idea.

File: 1728851518285899.png (600 KB, 680x776)

600 KB PNG

>>729947550
The kind of difficulty that the masses like is difficulty that can be worn down eventually. Either just by learning strict patterns/timings with your defensive options (usually parries, the masses LOVE parries) or with meta-progression. Ninja Gaiden is simply hard because its enemies are aggressive and your defensive options aren't foolproof. If you don't improve your reactions AND your strategy you're probably not getting anywhere, and upgrades mostly just give you more moves.

>>729955501
I've already played Nioh 2 before coming to NG. When I was playing Nioh I thought that the game could've been much better if it used hand placed loot and items, instead of randomly generated ones. For now I think I prefer NG to Nioh, because of the said reason and the general combat flow.

>>729956179
>just more moves
Is downplaying how important the shop is.

>>729956317
You're not going to go from walled by an encounter to clearing it without much difficulty by hitting up Muramasa unless for some reason you neglected it for several hours worth of progression. The upgrades in action games like this are mostly just part of the difficulty curve. I'd argue that nothing in NG is as game-changing as say getting Air Hike in any DMC either.

>>729954389
DMC5 is the most popular game in that series and that was when they gave up on level design.

>>729956023
They could release a special edition like that.
You start out on Master and have to unlock the easier difficulties lol.

>>729955834
That's what I was hoping Ninja gaiden 4 would be but... Yeah we don't talk about that fucking trash game.

>>729956229
One of the biggest reasons I don't speedrun Nioh 2 or any of the Action RPGs is precisely the flow of the game. NG is a game you can thoroughly enjoy going fast and routing precisely because it's so dynamic, while the action RPGs you'll skip 90% of the gameplay and customization by going fast. Also the movement is terrible in the action RPGs.

>>729956487
5 has chapters with very good level design (7, 11, 15), but a majority are just hallways with a few secrets in them yeah. Granted I'll take that over 4's level design even if 1 & 3 did it better than either (some hiccups notwithstanding).

>>729956483
I'd say projectiles and elixirs are important onboarding tools, that also don't guarantee victory. You don't even need Air Hike in DMC either, but we both agree action games, especially on harder difficulties, are usually better with a full moveset.

>>729956179
Any difficulty can be worn down eventually with enough practice and (outside of roguelikes) game knowledge, it's just a question of how complex the process of wearing down the difficulty is

>the masses LOVE parries
no, developers do because the simplify balance
the masses don't give a fuck, you don't see anyone clamoring for parries to be added in FPS games, and that's a genre which still has the same movement complexity its had since the original DOOM

>>729947550
>Doesn't have memes like DMC or a fuck huge marketing budget.
>80% of the vocal "community" is a bunch of try hard that are in there because of mork.
>Action games like this are not popular to begin with

>>729947550
it's low quality difficulty, just memorization of enemy openings
not fun at all
go grind humanbenchmark.com if that's what you like

>>729956483
Izuna and counter attacks are absolutely game changing. Whenever I play trials that strip you of those techniques I feel it strongly.

>>729956706
>>the masses LOVE parries
>no, developers do because the simplify balance
>the masses don't give a fuck
It's a bit of both. The parrying is what people praised the most about games like Sekiro & Revengeance and now people have talked up E33 all year for its parry mechanic (which the devs pretty heavily stated was inspired by Royal Guard). Devs took notice and used parrying as a crutch or trend in the years since Sekiro's success.

>>729947550
The mainstream likes "difficulty" in the sense that you can die in a few hits if you're not careful. The mainstream HATES complexity, and that's what Ninja Gaiden and NioH are. These games combined difficulty with complexity and complexity is the kryptonite of mainstream retards. That's why Souls took off. From mastered the "difficult action game for dummies" formula.

>>729954389
Enemies and the different environments and groupings you encounter them in is level design in action game. Puzzles and platforming are all superfluous filler that's only there to pad out the game instead of focusing on the core reason anyone is playing it.

>>729957073
>The mainstream HATES complexity, and that's what Ninja Gaiden and NioH are.
Wtf did you smoke?

>>729954462
NGB is the same game but with even worse gimmicks, checkpoint placements, swimming sections, bow controls, camera and so on. Fuck off poser

>>729957351
The checkpointing in sigma makes the game baby mode easy, death has almost no consequence

>>729957003
People liked Revengeance because it's a meme game, the parrying could have been dropped entirely it would still be just as popular
Same with Sekiro because it's just more Fromslop. We've had Souls games that didn't have parrying before, and they got big. Sekiro was just riding on those coattails.

>>729957435
Souls had parrying though.

>>729947550
It's difficult

NG1's hardest level is the first one purely because you have such a limited moveset at the beginning. I remember trying very hard on black for the first time after pretty easily beating hard and getting my ass handed to me.

>>729947550
Niche japanese game being released exclusively on Xbox, a platform with a nearly non-existent domestic userbase is the main factor.

Definitely would've faired better had it released on the ps3, the sigma releases performed somewhat well despite releasing a year later.

>>729947550
3 out of 4 nuNG games are just a collection of bland arenas where you slash waves of samey enemies. Only 2 was an actual fun varied AAA experience, the rest are autism simulators

>>729947550
>so explain why ninja gaiden isn't more popular
It's very boring aesthetically. As far as combat in the genre goes, no other game comes close to the Ninja Gaiden games, but gameplay really isn't enough to carry a console game. You need to have appealing visuals and general art direction, fun music, fun characters, and generally just something else to make your game standout. Take Resident Evil 4, for example. That game has amazing gameplay, but also much more. If gameplay was the only thing RE4 had going for it, then it wouldn't have been as big as it was back then. Ryu is a void of charisma, and so are all the other characters. NG's music is alright, but it just doesn't stand out and sounds pretty generic. Its art direction has always been all over the place with nothing that makes any sense. Zombies, robots, soldiers, ninjas, demons, ghosts, werewolves, it's all a bunch of random bullshit.

Ninja Gaiden 4 tried to fix this, but also failed. Yakumo has no personality much like Ryu, and he also looks lame. They clearly tried really hard to make the music popular like DMC5/MGR, but it also failed completely. It just sounds like shitty buttrock trying way too hard to be memorable. The art direction is just generic cyberpunk, which is just boring at this point. Nothing Platinum tried to do worked at all. I just don't think the series really works in this department.

>>729957804
All this 3D action figure wank is one big autism simulator, and yet none of the poser-dom yappers have touched NES Gayden.

>>729947550
The best versions of the first 2 games aren't widely availably since Team Ninja only want to sell the Sigma versions for some reason.
Also gaming audiences like having a souls/MV explorable world, which 1 and especially 2 don't have.

>>729957094
Enemies and art direction, while very very important too, are not level design. Level design is backtracking, interconnectivity, pacing, a sense of openness and exploration even if it’s a linear illusion (Half-Life 1 is a good example). Ninja Gaiden is just a straight-shot hallway. Its levels had no impact or staying value. And I don’t know what to tell you, I like puzzles and platforming and so does 99% of fucking people who play video-games lol

>>729954397
God I fucking love Jack's game; more than Nioh 1 and 2 even. Hell Wo Long gets retarded fun at the very end of DLC2 and TmJ. TN are the only games I play outside of older Monster Hunter.

>>729957883
Nah, DMC, MGR and Bayo are fun varied games. You can play them casually and just have fun. NG1, 3 and 4 are just boring if you play them casually, it's just waves of bland ass bots on bland ass levels

>>729947550
Because 90% of people who buy and play games don't want to play games, including you. They want flashy lights and participation trophies and buy in droves anything that satisfies this even while crying about how they want real games that challenge and respect them. Even those who appear to enjoy one challenge are instantly filtered and brought to their knees when faced with mild adaptation requirements, exposing their true nature. Game developers also think they can retain or acquire these mindless masses by upending their whole design and cheaping out but it doesn't actually work because they already have their slop and are outright terrified of stepping from their comfort zone despite that being the entire point of videogames as a medium to begin with.

>>729958024
I think it's a tragedy that the game can be cheesed so easily. People won't ever really get to explore the depth and technicality of that game. It is my favorite Team Ninja game easily even above NGB/S.

>>729947550
The cutoff for enjoying a difficult game is early millennial. Everyone after that wants to play a moviegame.

>>729947550
it was butchered with every remake, replacing everything that make it iconic. next question

>>729947550
because the worst versions of the games are the ones available and 4 plays nothing like the old ones

>>729958207
DMC 1 is just 3 flavors of sword + fists
MGR has the least amount of melee variety making new weapons glorified heavy button fodder unless you like to cheese with Monsoon's sai on specific encounters, or use Sundowner's scissors once.
Bayo, if you want to Pure Plat, especially on ∞ Climax, you're gonna be damage offsetting and not letting up on foot-guns.

And out of all three series, I'd say Bayo has the better enemy design visually and encounter-wise.

>>729958573
None of your autism babble matters, DMC/MGR/Bayo have cool cutscenes, cool set pieces, cool little mini-games like driving a bike, sometimes they let you explore and talk to NPCs. They're varied OUTSIDE of combat. Nobody cares if there's a triple aerial climax offset, that's autism babble, 99% of players don't engage with that shit

>>729958791
They're all varied on casual play, Ninja Gaiden does not ask too much outside of the odd bow and arrow section, and there are 'cool' cutscenes, and merchants, and Rachel and the fiends, and puzzles, and trials, wall jumping platforming.

Being a dismissive retard doesn't make you right.
>muh babble
Why are you on a site made for discussion, poo-skin?

>>729953990
>>729954397
I would agree that the earlier Ninja Gaidens don't do much to convey some of the unique nuances, though part of the depth and enjoyment of the game is supposed to be through learning them and not all are particularly necessary. But the example of Stranger of Paradise hammers the point home because all those crucial basic mechanics mentioned that offer maximum fun and enjoyment are all explicitly tutorialized and demonstrated in isolation and even then guides outside the game exist, yet it does nothing. Somewhere along the way people were gaslit into thinking that ending a game is the point and any friction is a problem of the game and not what makes it unique and interesting.

File: 65165498498.jpg (205 KB, 1982x969)

205 KB JPG

>>729957690
NG1 hardest levels are the trials, because in trials you have to beat some aggressively bullshit encounters that you never face in the campaign, like this one, for example.

>>729958427
My only complaint is how weak I am outside the Rift losing so many sick bonuses ( I play it like an action game - not loot autism). I really enjoy the full stages and party banter especially the Lufenian stage. I really really wish the AFF bonuses could be carried to the normal game.

In old Ninja Gaiden MN, do the bosses kills you in two hits?

File: 9da9c862-e6d8-4cd1-8f29-7(...).jpg (113 KB, 554x640)

113 KB JPG

>>729947550
>so explain why ninja gaiden isn't more popular
Because its not actually hard, its like "dude im totally a hardcore gamer for beating halo on legendary" hard

>>729959306
Having the monster bells to choose from would be nice but the Rift being able to offer a unique build you can't get on the world map is half the reason it's such a more compelling mode than the alternatives in other TN games. Making two separate builds for map missions and the Rift is also not very difficult since replication exists to copy your gear, the "loot autism" is not going to kill you if you change one or two numbers around and I guarantee you've done more and worse in other games. It's more straightforward and convenient that people like to assume.

>>729959572
That is true. At least for NG4 on normal. Hard is hard, but fair. Master Ninja is BS.

>>729960635
Oh I have duplicated gear for both the main game and Rift - I just dont like having less synergistic affinities.

>>729947550
3d Ninja gaidens are bad

>>729961070
That's what I meant by two separate builds, you can just switch the affinities around on the map build to account for the lack of Rift ones and vice versa. It's worth doing for the change of pace between both modes even if you get to stack more while in the Rift.

File: 1761824497053067.png (72 KB, 900x806)

72 KB PNG

>>729947550
Because for many gaming is just something to chill with and farm easy dopamine?..

>>729959296
I remember seeing this encounter in the game for the first time. No, I didn't beat it or put effort into trying to beat it. But wow did it make me feel funny inside like lmao this is so crazy that the devs even considered adding this in, and some peopel for sure have found ways to get it done still.

>>729959572
And what games are "real hard" and not "fake hard"?

>>729961653
All of them are doable.

>>729953990
>Like being able to block in the middle of attacks or block out of being hit. Or being able to roll out of guard breaks
This is obscure or stupid? What, anyone that plays past the first fight in the game will find out you can do it.
>boss fights if you can even call them that
What the fuck am I reading? What else should you call murai or the big horseman
>As someone that speedruns
Oh that explains it, there is something seriously wrong with speedrunners. They cant even grasp basic things about a game but are "practising" it for hours a day. Your entire paragraph of drivel was like you asked an AI to list some critique but keep it as general as possible so it could apply to a lot of games. Have you done a single normal run through a NG game or did you just read a guide somewhere and started "speedrunning".

>>729962508
>What, anyone that plays past the first fight in the game will find out you can do it.
This is just not true. I've seen actual playthroughs from beginning to end by multiple people on Twitch and they don't know these things.

The boss fights are all very terrible except for Doku and maybe Murai 1.
>>729962508
I don't have enough time to type all my actual critiques and complaints no.

>>729961728
Celeste

>>729963349
But /v/ told me that putting spikes everywhere is fake difificulty.

>>729947550
Ninja Gaiden 1 combat is what Dark Souls should be but fully grounded.

>>729957003
>Sekiro & Revengeance
>E33
Calling all of those """parries""" is fucking retarded.