>could go on for hours
>doesn't even start

I have never played an extraction shooter.

why are there do many shills for sbmm? seriously look at the archives for previous threads about this subject and they always spout the same retarded jewish crap

>>730026849
>sociopathic pvpers frothing at their mouth that they can't kill pve players like its seal clubbing
you're not white and never will be

>>730027417
Its the exact same in RuneScape kek

>>730026849
>it is bad because I cant roll newbs
That took hours to type

clowns cry about how everything that forces them into a fair fight will kill the game yet nothing ever happens except them crying more. we know you retards can't actually stand up in a fair fight and only want to shoot people who don't shoot back, but keep crying it's funny to watch

>>730026849
SBMM is probably still the best type of matchmaking around, but it shouldn't be the only kind and it's probably not even the best MM possible.
The issue is most of the people bitching about SBMM just kind of want to stomp new players without considering the fact that this will also allow power players into their lobby, which is why removing SBMM never goes over well.

>>730026849
>most dedicated
lol, get fucked pvp chimps

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>>730026849
I never liked the oldschool server feel, I like when everyone in the room is around the same skill level, that way we test each other to the fullest of our capabilities and nobody feels either outmatched or too skilled. The problem is that what they call "skill-based matchmaking" is engagement-based matchmaking. They have zero inscentive to give you even matches, they want to manipulate your dopamine levels and progression to keep you playing for as long as they can. Real SBMM in multiplayer games only had a brief run in the 2010s before getting snubbed in favour of EBMM, because EBMM combined with all the monetisation we have nowadays is freakishly effective at manipulating idiots into dumping money on shitty games.

>>730026849
>most dedicated players
>dont want to fight competent players, just want to club seals
what happened to pvpers i remember a time they hated low skill noobs entering their hardcore lobbies, is it all the normalfags in the hobby?

>the whole point is the risk
>NOOOOOOO NOT LIKE THAT AAAAAAAAAAAH

>>730027830
Source? I dont think "2 anime cave girls" is the correct tittle of the show...

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>>730028152
>2003+23
>not knowing Japanese
ngmi

>>730026849
SBMM itself is fine. The problem is the way 99% of devs implement it. Most SBMM systems are coded and made by absolute moutbreathing retards and their excuse is always that "there arent' enough players to make a decent one" while the game sits at a cozy +20k playercount

Fuck you Hunts Showdown for ruining it

>>730026849
Their logic seems to revolve around the fact that they'll eventually hit a 50/50 w/l ratio because they can no longer pub stomp and are forced to face similarly skilled players.
Thats it, thats all people bitching about SBMM care about. Being a big fish in a small pond and avoid the 50/50. Barely even a step up above a casual, if at all considering they want to hang around them so much.

the pvper cries out as it strikes you

>>730027515
with Runescape its pretty much only botters and Clan farmers left that still do PVP. Whenever you see some youtuber "pvp" its always on a specific trained pure account while his main bot farms are making sure he doesnt have any losses.
Starting to think Jagex had a point with removing pvp in the Wildy

>>730028319
pipo chiyan [i think kanji for nihon?]

>>730026849
>THIS WILL KILL THE GAME IF I CANT RAPE AND KILL EVERYONE
>meanwhile only lost 10% of players since release

Really makes you think.

>>730028546
No, that's not the problem. Playing with similarly skilled players is desirable. The problem is that that 50-50 is not actually achieved through matching similarly skilled players, it's achieved by matching you against a mouthbreathing retard today and a japanese machine god tomorrow, with neither of you three having any fun when one stomps and other gets stomped.

>come back to thread
>shills infiltrate
its all so tiring

>>730028003
Pussyfication is what happened.
Every zoomer who now lurks on the internet became a fucking pussy. I remember when music albums had an "Parental Advisory" and it was a sign of flexing and pride. Or old youtubers genuine not giving a fuck if sponsors blocked them. Now whenever one of these grifters suddenly get a bit of pushback they instantly pussy out and whine.
Same thing with PvP. People nowdays became so miserable that they just want to constantly feel good about themself and win in anything for a bit.

Makes me wonder if times in the early 2000 were so much better that people werent as miserable as they are now

>>730029149
>ummmm...yeah... if you don't have my exact opinion...you're erm... a hecking bad person... yeah.... sorry....

>>730029149
you have an overgrown amygdala

>>730026849
Matchmaking has never ruined anything good.

as a pve player i sort of agree, finding a friendly player loses its novelty when you know that every single lobby is gonna be filled with friendly players. The game turns really boring once you realise that there's absolutely 0 risk. I wish they'd at least turn up the robots in pve lobbies.

>>730027417
And you can also extrapolate that the PvE threat is non-existent because if it was, those PvPniggers would whine non-stop.

>>730026849
lol the casualisation of extraction shooters will never work
by turning it into a kindergarten you kill the thrill of the genre
tarkov went all in on degens and scooped the market all you have left are the gamer dads

>>730026849
>>730028546
the problem with sbmm is that it allows developers to shove balancing problems under the rug because only the top % of players will ever encounter them.
I'm perfectly okay when mmr is visible and devs consider top end skill in gameplay design. It's never perfect, but it's better than zero gameplay considerations at all. I love games like company of heroes 3, street fighter 6, and cs2. Hunt Showdown works fine with sbmm but the problem there is that the majority of 6* p100 players are blatantly wallhacking and are never banned.

both embark games are designed like absolute dogshit. Heavy in the Finals has been grossly overpowered since release and the winch has been downright unplayable cancer (the team that lands the winch first wins). In arc raiders lobbies respawn infinite human waves for 12 minutes and everyone rushes flares with triggernade spam venator 4 cancer.

if devs don't take the time to balance their game why should i spend time playing it. Especially in arc raiders when the netcode is so shit and it's pvp - i'd rather just play other games for their pvp.

>>730028787
They did have a point but they've since done a 180 on pvp and now treat them like an endangered species who have to be protected and rewarded for continuing to exist

>>730026849
>I don't like being paired with players who play the same way I do
Maybe you should reconsider your playstyle

>>730026849
During my 20+ years of gaming, I've played only one game with some sort of SBMM that simply forced down your throat 5 victories and 5 losses.

It was Black Squad, back in his short lived prime which lasted around 2 years, then slanted eyes slowly turned it into his dead Worst Korea form after they lost ESL or whatever that shit is called, due 75% of Cobras being cheaters.

My only comment about being forced into this kind of crap that comes with no opt out function, it's just
>it's fucking shit

And it's not because le bad aim, skills issues or whatever, it's because it forces players to care more about a virtual rank over everything.

BS maps were better versions of the shit present in CS, still by forcing skill based bullshit into dailies and quickplay, literally doubled the playtime you needed to get your daily shit done, in latter times it also quadrupled it cause the game literally lost so many players that Qs literally lasted so long and you were always matched up against a bunch of cheaters.

When valofe took over rules for leaving ranked also worsened, so nobody wanted to play ranked cause their incompetence against the cheaters drove away everyone and nobody was there to be camped by them.

I simply miss early 2000 multiplayer cause by owning the server we could balance the team, ban problematic players, lock the server to have our private fun, and when competitive happened prizes were virtual jpegs and nothing else.

>play high school football
>stomp your opponents
>play college football
>be significantly better than your opponents
>play in the nfl
>every match is a struggle, opponents are about as good as you or even better
wtf fuck sbmm

>>730030323
actual genetic freaks who end up in the nfl don't seethe like this. it's always the ones who couldn't hack it past the high school level because they just weren't good enough to compete. i can imagine it being similar in games

>>730028937
>>>>>chiyan

"PvPvE" is such a stupid concept, anyway. If there's PvP then it's a PvP game mode. Trying to entice people who don't like PvP into playing by including "PvE" in it is incredibly misleading because it's always some stupid side objective to the real PvP gameplay. PvP can be cooperative, but don't lie and say it's PvE.

>>730026849
If there is SBMM in gay raiders it doesn't work. The sweatiest try hards on twitch (shut up) constantly get bot lobbies where people with 20iq are their opponents.

>>730030203
SBMM is an anti consumer scam. Your free gaming time is occasionally being outsourced to give another player a better time at the cost of yours. If you are putting me into auto lose lobbies you better compensate me somehow but they don't. It's sad that we have just accepted this

>>730030323
>have to win every time to get to the next bracket
>have to keep winning
>make NFL now you're rich
>don't have to win anymore
Understand retard-kun?

>>730031002
>Your free gaming time is occasionally being outsourced to give another player a better time at the cost of yours.
That's not what SBMM is and I hate that Big Gaming bashed that definition into everyone's heads. What you are describing is engagement-based matchmaking. Skill-based matchmaking matches people of similar skill every match.

I think that if you haven't played the game you should shut the fuck up about sbmm because you clearly don't know what the fuck you are talking about.
Half this thread is retarded nogames pasting their sbmm screed that they prewrote 5 years ago that has literally 0 bearing on the supposed implementation in this game.

>>730031214
The games I play that have SBMM do it that way. I have never in my life played a PVP game with fair balancing and that's because fair balancing is not their goal at all it's player retention to buy skins and you retain players by throwing them easy wins every now and then especially really shit players.

>>730031490
Some early to mid 10s games had "naive" SBMM combined with a big enough playerbase to make it work. But past Overwatch, I don't think we got any games that didn't try to pre-emptively tamper with the results.

>>730026849
if pvp is so much harder than pve why do pvp players have so few raid clears in MMOs? the best gear drops there, they should be doing it

>>730029079
that’s a problem with game mode design. a poopsock shouldn’t be able to camp spawns and single handedly carry an entire team nor should a noob be able to account for half of the other teams kills. the fact is that no one actually cares about winning or being part of a team, they just want to farm k/d by any means necessary. look at how dead actual team modes like capture the flag are.

>>730026849
>"I could go on for hours why SBMM is bad"
>is literally linking a post talking about how SBMM is not in the game.

I didn't realize illiteracy was really this bad, but damn. I guess it is. For those who are as illiterate the Twitter retard, matching people who prioritize PvP with other people who prioritize PvP is not SBMM. The system never accounts for skill. It's accounting for aggression.

>>730030893
Works for me. In 40 hours the only time I've had anyone shoot me was right after the wipe. I haven't shot a single person in all my hours playing the game and I never run into anyone that isn't friendly. 20 hours before I got shot by another person and another 20 hours after with no pvp at all.

>>730027417
>admitting that whites are worse at videogames than minorities
This isn’t the own you think it is

>>730032624
>look at how dead actual team modes like capture the flag are.
splatoon solved that with rotations
you can't not play tower control, it's up and it's the only option for the next 2 hours aside from the baby casual mode
people hate it at first, but a few rotations of the modes they don't want to play and they stop caring about what they want and start caring about deriving enjoyment from what the game offers to them

>>730032938
that’s good but I’m not sure I’d really consider that a team mode, same as pushing a payload. it’s just stand there and get some kills really. not saying you wouldn’t do better with good communication

>>730026849
lol never understood why people cry you should want to play your skill level or higher whats the point of playing comp games otherwise

>>730033492
you OWE them 2.0+ kd. for their money of buying the game

>>730033234
i used tc not as an example of team mode (cb is the big team mode which is why eeryone sucks at it), but rather as an example of a mode that nobody would play if not for rotations

>Eren Yeager pfp
Delicious brown tears. Civilized adults get to enjoy Chungartha while brownoids like him are sent to KoS Nigger Hell.

It's been in the game since launch so anyone bitching now proves the point that it works, because they've been engaging with it this ENTIRE time.

IT matters in largescale pvp-centric titles like tarkov, it doesn't matter in arc raiders because 95% of people never bring anything but free kits in.

>>730028542
What's wrong with Hunt's matchmaking?

>>730026849
SBMM is bad because it aims to keep W/L ratios equalized and bait people into spending money, it's only skill-based in that it uses whatever metric to measure a player's skill (ranking, K/D, W/L, etc) and slot them into games where they're most likely to drive microtransaction sales after a match.
SBMM is also what lead to Engagement Optimized Matchmaking, which is even more extreme in that it creates a sort of "slave" class out of the player pool who are destined to fail until they spend money to improve their chances at getting paired with players at/below their skill level. This is why people hate what Activision, EA, Ubisoft, etc. have been doing for the past decade and why Overwatch 2 is a piece of fucking dogshit for using EOMM.
That said, what Arc Raiders is doing is nothing new. DOTA 2 and pretty much every Bamco anime fighter (and now Kirby Air Riders) since 2011 have been using the same exact model. Only thing Arc Raiders is lacking is the ability to see if somebody is in high or low priority.

>>730028937
Pipo chan no nichijou
Daily life of Pipo
but the English name could be something else entirely
also NTA

Just bring back dedicated servers for fucks sake.

SBMM is like communism, it's the perfect system on paper, but when you ask why it always sucks they all say "true SBMM has never been attempted!"

>>730033980
its just a core problem with these types of games where there arent enough mid-rank players to populate the game. lobbies consist of 1k people with 10 hours and 1k people with 10k hours, and the 3 people with only 500 hours get tossed between getting stomped by people who have memorized setups to curve a bullet around the state of louisiana and directly into your spawnpoint, and then the next game stomping literal babies who need to spend twenty seconds hunting to find the W key each time they want to move forward.

>>730033716
Whats the lore behind people using that profile pic?

>>730035058
That's why you add a hard separation between those kinds of players, and implement extensive tutorials (possibly in the form of a compelling singleplayer mode) to drag those 10-hour players into competence without forcing them into fighting japanese machine gods from day 1.

>>730031009
You think players in the NFL don't have win? The NFL is the most cutthroat sports league when it comes to contributions and results. Coasting will get a player benched and eventually released.

>>730032919
>fighting games
Niggers and asians
>RTS, shooters, MOBAs
Asians
CS is only played by whites, so it doesn't count. I don't know about the Deodorant scene, so maybe they're good at it, but that's it.

>>730031214
>engagement-based matchmaking
I don't think it works

I watched Badger vid on YT about his adventures on past yearly cod games and what was happening to him and his friends was literally the same thing that was happening to me in BS, even when sometimes the algorithm of YT decides to show me a WT video, specially it's the same, you get stomped, you get to stomp.

Back inna day when we wanted to steamroll, we organized pub stomps and pull an all-nighter on whatever server or game, but when admins were on, or when it was simply enough we evenly balanced teams

>>730032371
I can only speak about my DCUO exploits, PVP players are like gang members, alone they mean nothing, in group they are dangerous, they won't PVE cause ganking is their hobby, but with a big BUTT, sometimes the best healers and controllers could be found on PVP, cause they simply knew their kit better than your generic button mashers.

PVP tanks were always fucking whores, many times fucking power hungry whores, I hated fire tanks, we hated fire and rage tanks being in the group, yet 10% of them were quite good, cause again like the healers, knew their fucking kit and never disrupt synergy between other roles.

I don't know if is the same on other games, but in DCUO worked like this.

>>730030492
you are the best, once you are proven wrong, in OFP/ArmA CWC I was simply the best middle map player of the pack, Bl1p proved me wrong, Sneaky Six proved me wrong, the entire SWEC clan proved me wrong, I started studying the maps, best line of fire, best spots to camp for 3 kill tops and best areas to be if players likes these two were around, I refined my skills to the point that if other people saw us 3 together complained about being one sided cause our map navigation and ambushes were just too much for them.

>>730034106
fucking this and also this>>730034987

>>730032624
Maps will always have public or hidden faults, on CoD UO most Base Assault and also CTF servers, always run custom maps

>be fag who derives fun from shooting people in the back after telling them you're not going to shoot them
>get moved to server with people exactly like you
>NOOOO THIS ISN'T RIGHT THIS ISN'T FUN FOR ME ANYMORE THIS ISN'T HOW THE GAME SHOULD BE PLAYED
These people have zero self awareness

>>730026849
there should be SBMM but it shouldnt be as tight as a lot of games make it, especially in a BR/extraction shooter, i always end up getting to the top% of games and i end up quitting over queue times, i dont want to stomp noobs, its too easy, but i also dont want to wait for 40+mins for a match or one thats filled with bots

>>730035778
I was saying, always run custom maps, cause vanilla maps were BS, on Base Assault servers we so called no life players, knew the correct bunker order, which bunker to destroy and not plant to manipulate the spawn points, take control of a portion of the map, plant on the most difficult bunker, sometimes two difficult bunkers like in Kursk and curbstomp the enemy team with minimum effort, but when admins were on, when 50% of the server was filled with veterans, admins did simply pick other maps cause vanilla ones were no fun.

CTF, was the same, MTL server with LoTR maps that was the deal, playing on other server had no sense, specially in CoD on which CTF maps weren't even balanced with more than 3 players per side. MTL once showed CTF gurus wrong, when they put Sicily with 20 players per side, it was a fucking spawncamping shitfest.

In modern games you can't have a CTF mode in a big map, cause everyone will camp around it, on OFP you could play CTF mode, cause usually the walk to defend the flag was like a 30 seconds to 50 seconds jog, on CoD the longest 50 seconds jog I think it was on Rhine Valley and they were the seconds needed to rush into the enemy flag. Modern players simply can't survive 50 seconds without killing a person, that's why CTF mode is fucking dead, cause it's either a shitshow or a generic CT balanced map with no rush b option, or
>be killed
>be respawning
>be walking towards enemy flag for x seconds with no action
>be killed by a bush
>be respawning
>rinse repeat
>such fun is CTF mode

That mentality no longer exists

>>730026849
>JUST LET ME KILL PEOPLE WHO DON'T FIGHT BACK PLEASE I JUST WANT TO MURDER MURDER MURDER
Yikes.

I played at the highest tier/level of play for a game for a year and the sbmm got horrendous and I saw it with friends who reached highest levels in other games too. Queue times would be terrible and the matches would be you having to carry noobs/bots every other game that were practically unwinnable from pre match lobby.The MMMR assassin episode jokes are actually made at the highest level of play btw.

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99% of the "pvp" in this game is getting shot at from behind without a chance to fight back
if they think this is skillful they are delusional

>>730026849
never played arc raiders but this would have ruined dayz. not knowing if someone was friendly or not was part of the tension and appeal and led to cool moments, aggression based matchmaking sounds VERY dumb.

>>730037325
trigger nades

>>730028542
>The problem is the way 99% of devs implement it.
everyone uses Microsoft TrueMatch

>>730037632
yes and smoke grenades
and door blockers
and ziplines
and raider hatch keys
hell, just load into a match with 125,000 coins worth of gear just so you can loot 5 chemicals

>>730037325
never camp into corners if you don't have the fucking advantage, never cross the line of fire to relocate yourself if you are not sure about their numbers and positions, fucking go long or do a roundabout them

>>730026849
I don't really care. We're at the point where every game has so many monogamer autists that it's just a miserable experience to get better unless you also turn it into the game you spend 8 hours a day in. I can't fault them for dedicating so much time into a game they clearly love, but the idea of them being miserable because of SBMM does amuse me in a selfish way.

>>730037480
See
>>730037325
There is no fucking "pvp" as in "tension". Its a bunch of sweaters who get assmad that they cant sit there, ignore each other because that would entail actual competition and focus on what is essentially searching for bird nests and throwing the chicks out calling yourself a hunter.
Its lol smurfing all over again.

>aggression based matchmaking
>the pvp players looking for easy wins go up against dedicated pvp players
>the playerbase either suffocates itself
>or reshapes into a pvp sweatfest
>pve players get to vibe in peace
based

>>730037480
it is. dont know how carebears do it. if youre not afraid of someone shooting you in the back where is all the fear of dying going to come from? the braindead arc defeated by any wall with a window? lol.

>>730026849
>game is already easy mode tarkov
>SBMM makes it extra easy for the double retards in the back
lmao

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>>730038086
yes I've played tarkov
I play this game instead because it works on a system of trust, not battle royale
having to move around like this is a third world country is not what I'm looking for
and thank god for the aggression based matchmaking segregating players
I got shot there because I recently defended myself from some noob in webm related

>>730038912
This

>>730026849
If you guys think for even just a second that any anti SBMM argument can hide your thirst for stomping you're wrong.

>>730026849
>skill based pvp
>arc raiders
lmao

>>730037325
>Nowhere to be seen
>Somehow appears right behind of you and easily shoots into a different room with stuff supposely blocking your view
wow "fun"

>>730027830
>I never liked the oldschool server feel, I like when everyone in the room is around the same skill level, that way we test each other to the fullest of our capabilities and nobody feels either outmatched or too skilled.
the skill variance in oldschool servers was good too.
first off if you were a competitive player it gave you the chance to see how much better people can be. you can learn how they play and what they do different. plus genuinely competitive players want to test themselves against challenging opponents and not just get easy wins. depends how big the gap is and the specific game but still. but even with larger gaps i suppose that would give lesser players massive dopamine to know they were able to beat a really good player in that rare instance, like a slot machine payout.

second it adds more depth and variety to the gameplay. if you know there's one guy on the enemy team that's way better than everyone else, then your team has to focus them. similar with your team, if one guy is carrying, then you should try to help him carry. if you run into an opponent that's a noob you might have fun and just mess around with them, just dodging and maybe not even attacking back then leave and find someone more important.

tldr custom servers were and are kino

>>730042796
custom servers were the equivalent to local arcades
uncs thought they were hot shit for beating little timmy
but then they got destroyed when they had to play on global matchmaking

>>730042980
unrelated to everything i said but ok

>>730035752
I assume pro gamers are pretty bad at deodorant.

>>730026849
These people are quite literally arguing for the death of the game, these people are so utterly mindboggingly retarded it's not even funny.
Yeah, SBMM is tiring for skilled players, but skilled players are like less than 5% of any game's userbase, games *NEED* SBMM because the games *NEED* to be fun for low skilled players and casuals, you can't just pair noobs and low level people with level 5000 no lifers for like 10 matches and play pretend that these people would never leave the damn game, being a noob or just playing to have fun for a couple matches is fucking destroying when you get consistently put in matches against no lifers who overpower your team so much you can't even get out the spawn area.
He can shit and moan all he wants, but it's been proven that the SBMM + agression matchmaking model is working for this game, and people have stayed playing after launch.
For God's fucking sake, I shouldn't have to repeat the same fucking shit on every fucking thread like a broken record...

>>730027537
>That took hours to type
Basically this, these people jerk off on making other people be miserable, that sums all it up.

>goty to these dorks a month ago
>dev only just confirms there's matchmaking for pvp that lets pvpers go with their ilk
>suddenly it's bad despite nothing changing

lol

>>730026849
People complaining about SBMM are just mad they don't get to stomp on noobs, that's it. They say it ruins fun but it only ruins THEIR fun. The shitters for sure won't be displeased not having to play against sweatlords

Matchmaking at all in this kind of game kills the spirit of it. You're supposed to have unpredictable encounters

>>730032919
He's talking about brownoids habitually ruining the sense of community that white men create, methinks

>>730028787
>>730030153
PKing in wildy was the most fun part of RuneScape, duels and castle wars and some quests were also fun but not as much. I only left wildy to grind for wildy.

>>730046246
I've never seen an intelligent post complaining about "forced 50% w/r"

>>730046156
people who only play shooters aren't very bright you gotta cut them some slack

>>730045597
>skilled players are less than 5% of the playerbase
>if you don't have sbmm then bad players will play against them ten matches in a row
actual retard
>it's been proven that the SBMM + aggression matchmaking model is working for this game
how do you prove something works? the finals uses heavy sbmm and their concurrent playerbase is about 2% of what it was on launch.
for all you know the game could be doing way better without sbmm. Tarkov's been making bank for the past decade regardless of how shit it is.

you type like redditnigger and have the attitude of a shitter. go back.

>>730037325
>stupid racist also bad at the game
many such cases

SBMM never works though.

>>730028546
50% win rates suck and even the greatest pro players of all time have win rates that are all of 50.2%. The very top of the ladder winning .2% of the time more.
>>730029079
You don't understand the math.

>>730027325
Tarkov is genuinely the only one worth trying. The adrenaline you get when you kill someone big and get all their gear to try to exit is something I've only felt in games when playing in tournaments.

>>730046836
I liked Dank Souls invasion system for this reason.
But for the majority Red Man = bad.

>>730047583
every time I try to play tarkov I remember
>found in raid
>ran through
>solos in the same lobbies as 5 man squads
>0.000s TTK
>player scavs
>flea market
>wipes
>psycho sniper/setup/grenadier
and then immediately stop thinking of playing the game ever again

>>730026849
>yet another year of sweats bitching and moaning that they have to play against other sweats

>>730026849
Sbmm is probably in its purest forms in games that it is you vs 20+ other players.

The issue comes in team based games. Where they try to algorithm it out that you always have a 50/50 shot to win. Where its not often you have "good" games. Its usually you get rolled over or vice versa. They try to throw a stacked team against you or an easy one to make you feel better.

>>730047465
SBMM has worked in shooters for a decade+ now it feels like. community servers are best but if I'm forced to matchmake I'd at least want the matchmaker to try to make an even match.

>>730047519
>50% win rates suck
Because?
>even the greatest pro players of all time have win rates that are all of 50.2%
What game? In LoL (inb4 >LoL) the top pros like Faker have about 55% win rate in ranked matchmaking.
>Why so low?
It makes perfect sense considering the top of the ladder plays against... the top of the ladder.

>>730047967
>50/50 shot to win
that's what a winrate should look like if you're playing in the correct ELO anon.

SBMM isnt the same as ABMM. The more someone PvPs doesnt relate to skill. It relates to..willingness to PvP. And why are retards talking like this is some new feature? This is how the game has been coded since launch, and its one of the highest retention rates in years.

>>730026849
>griefers talk about how pvp is a core mechanic of the genre
>get mad when they have to play with another griefer

>>730027830
Did Unga-Chan make it?

>>730030505
No. The games just need to be large open-world full-loot PvPvE games where encountering players is not a given and there are ways to establish situational awareness to evade/hunt other players. Ideally, losing and winning would also be more granular, for example instead of a single unit you could have a group of 10 doing pve (eg spaceship mining) and if you get surprised with your pants down you could extract 5 and kill hostile scout units or someshit and limp away with the rest to continue.

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KWAB

SBMM leads to the best player retention, that's why it's adopted by every single mutliplayer game who have all the numbers, gigantic sample sizes and have tried different approaches over the years

and even if it wasn't, the argument for it is pretty simple: everyone should get a roughly fair match. anything else is just demanding unfair treatment

>>730029210
seems like the term "sportsmanship" is non-existant within gen z because of all the nigger rap music they listen to

>>730026849
So they do put me with pvp seasoned players when I shoot friendlies in the back of their head. This is shit matchmaking imo

>>730028003
every jobless loser wants to become a "content creator" aka farming for impressions. can't do that with other competent people in the lobby

>>730026849
>WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH I WANT TO GRIEF PEOPLE GEARED FOR PVE I DON4T WANT TO PLAY WITH OTHER PLAYERS AS PREPARED AS ME OR THEN I MIGHT LOSE

>noooo don't make me play against people like me!!!
>i want my 2.0 k/d or else I'm not having fun!

Huh

>>730030505
No because extraction shooters typically come with high risk high reward for PvP. Theres reasons to not try and fight people even if you can. But theres also times to take advantage of the situation and PvP.

Why do PVP players call PVE players unskilled trash, but freak out when they need to play with other PVP players?

>>730048246
>everyone should get a roughly fair match.
why is this concept so difficult to grasp

>>730048713
because they know there's always a bigger fish

>>730035798
But they're right. If the ABMM is this severe the devs might as well just make actual PvE and PvP modes since its all but there anyway. The whole point of the genre is not knowing if you can trust other players based on the situation.

The only extraction shooter that could work as PvE is The Hunt.

>>730026849
everytime I see someone being mad at SBMM it really is just them being mad that they can't stomp noobs all day

>>730027367
valve shills really heavily on this board and they pioneered utilizing sbmm for player retention

they did it so poorly that everyone knows their algorithms are bullshit. like literally even children can tell theyre being manipulated with how stupid the games are

the easiest way to see how bullshit the algorithms are is just losing games on purpose. you will find you get games that you literally cannot lose even if you do nothing at all, feed, etc


so in playing any valve game with sbmm you are just getting exploited by algorithms like a casino would. pure waste of time

>>730032919
There is LITERALLY zero progression tied to PvP in this game. You are OBJECTIVELY accomplishing nothing but wasting other peoples time. PvE players are skyrocketing past you in levels by simply opening cabinets and droors.

>>730048246
But what constitutes a fair match for PvE players? I feel like there should be some offset. Like PvE oriented lobbies spawn more/aggressive arcs.

>>730048858
that is the whole point of the game for five minutes until the people trying to be friendly realise that unless they are the ones shooting first, their entire pvp experience will be getting shot in the back

>>730048858
Because this way players get to essentially have a PvE mode and the tension of not being able to fully trust other players at the same time. It's the best of both worlds, even if the tension is mostly illusory thanks to matchmaking tricks.

>>730049030
you also don't need much more than a kettle or a stitcher for pvp
they deliberately made pvp not grindy so that the pvpers wouldn't complain about having to grind pve to have pvp gear
and the pvpers are still not happy with it

>>730048928
absolute snore fest

Don’t care arc is trash
Gonna boot it up one last time, backstab someone and uninstall. Play the superior embark game, the finals

>>730049020
meds
also I think it was activision that published their internal study on player retention based on matchmaking algorithms

>>730048246
a "roughly fair match" involving hidden MMR and forced wins / losses?

the "roughly fair match" should be random teams from the same skill level. instead the matches are weighted purely to drive player retention and cosmetic shop activity. which leads to stupid shit like completely unwinnable and unlosable games. yeah so fun bro, nothing like having ZERO effect on a game that you spend 1 hr in

just try losing games on purpose and you will see how retarded sbmm is


but their target isnt adults, its children and trying to get children to buy cosmetics. it takes children a little longer to realize how broken the balance is

>>730049256
if you dont agree with what im saying you are bad at video games and probably brown

>>730026849
Lmao this game is going to die a horrible death. Never EVER trust former DICE devs. That fucker ruined battlefield 4 and he ruined 5. I know his work, ARC was a fluke. It's going to get worse.

>>730047097
I miss old wildy. The Wildy nowdays is just pathetic.

>>730049075
Arc Raiders isn't a PvP game so PvEers will always be catered to. It's a game that simply has some elements of PvP that have no gameplay progression what so ever. There is no long term reward for playing PvP, it just exists.

>>730049330
You sound like a madman, but I actually believe you.

>>730049289
nah youre just retarded
read this if you can stop crayons in your mouth for longer than 5 minutes
https://www.activision.com/cdn/research/CallofDuty_Matchmaking_Series_2.pdf

>>730049249
Don't care. Still playing Arc.

>>730049289
>forced wins / losses
a 50% winrate is not a conspiracy bro
it means your rank is where you belong

>>730048354
nigger music already existed way before 2000. Fucking Eminem was already famous in 1999. No idea what you're on about.

>>730026849
>nooo think about the gank squads

All games should have sbmm. It's the correct decision in literally every case.
The only consideration for player complaints should be to have two queues: a ranked queue which explicitly uses sbmm and a "casual' queue which doesn't mention that it uses sbmm.
Players think they don't want this, but the data shows otherwise.

>>730048086

That's not how it works though.
they stack you with low level shitters against high ranking to do it. That's why they do the seasonal ranking systems now to hide it. You could be current bronze or whatever but with a high elo.

To slow down progression they will put you with low elo players against high elo players that were at the top brackets before the reset. It should be a truly random assignment of players.

>>730026849
FPS is a bad genre for pvp

>>730049692
this simply isn't true, people easily climb out of the lower ranks if they're skilled enough. you are just coping and making up a scenario to explain why you can't climb

>>730049639
>Players think they don't want this, but the data shows otherwise.
Yet another case of a vocal minority acting like a lobby.
Happened to Chivalry, devs eventually apologized for "listening to the wrong side of the community" years after.
Happened to Fortnite until Zero Build was introduced too.

>>730048246
SBMM is a good idea but it should be reasonably loose, when every match is a super competitive sweat-fest where the outcome rests on a razor's edge because everyone in the lobby is perfectly equally matched it gets exhausting very quickly.

Some of the best matchmaking I've ever experienced was back in Halo 3 which had a form loosely banded SBMM in the casual playlists, I remember having it an overall really enjoyable mixture of match types and outright crushing the other team or being crushed was fairly rare, most matches ended in decisive victories one way or the other but most of the time it left you feeling like you could have won that last match if you'd just played a bit better.

>>730049516
ive deranked an account from LEM in csgo all the way to silver 5, and due to sbmm it was actually impossible to rank it back up. it was actually hard locked to silver unless i had the time to spend literally hundreds of hours grinding. how would you explain that one?

its not "forced 50%" but its optimized to minimize your impact on games and force wins and losses, and maximize your time wasted

>>730047414
Okay, this is getting retarded again.
Yes, highly skilled players are less than 5%, but that doesn't mean the people under them aren't skilled, the problem is that the majority of players are in the 50% of casuals, let's say this game lost 80% of it's playerbase like overwatch and some noob wanted to play it, with who do you think he'd mostly be matched against with no sbmm? Hell, most players playing for the first time in most games with no sbmm get matched with higher skilled people than them, let's say they stay for 10 matches, how miserable their experience would be when they can't stand a chance against the enemy team?
If you make the beginning of playing a game miserable you're effectively destroying your own growth, since most new players will be scared away.
You need to stand a chance to enjoy a game, if you're playing against people that kill you before you can even react, you won't continue playing the damn game.

>>730049950
>SBMM is a good idea but it should be reasonably loose
A tight SBMM results in too long queues anyway.

>>730049950
>when every match is a super competitive sweat-fest where the outcome rests on a razor's edge because everyone in the lobby is perfectly equally matched it gets exhausting very quickly.
no it really doesnt
also funny assmption that a competitive match would be a sweatfest, putting two shitters against each other is just as competitive.
and again, the numbers don't lie. with the exception of the very top skill players, every group of player has less fun, plays less and is more likely to quit if they keep getting unbalanced matches. and before you start, even that top bracket would eventually suffer from the exodus of low and mid level players as they will suddenly find themselves in a much harsher, more competitive environment: if you make the bottom feeders quit, you will become the new bottoms feeders.

>>730049880
The problem is that the only people saying anything are sweatlords, these people for some reason get hard at stomping other players, the problem is that the stomped players don't have fun and leave, so in the end they're just destroying the game for everyone.

>>730049841
They have hidden Elo metrics in matchmaking. A new player will play against new players in the bronze category. The old player that got reset will mostly be playing high elo players in that same bracket. This makes it more tedious to progress than if you were just to make a new account.

I miss the days of halo ranking I guess. Your rank never went away and you knew from the start you were playing people of the same tier. I remember I played with a friend that was a little better than me, maybe a lot idk. But he went up like 20 levels surpassing me on a heater and I didn't rank up once.

maybe shoot on sight players more likely matched up with others
meanwhile tracking 'pve' time should put you more in pve matches
should make the gear players and/or arcs drop more compelling risk/reward ie you will less likely kill someone if you both take down the arc - or worse punishment if you gank with gear then die to the arc/another player for example

>>730049969
bro no top 5% player would ever need hundreds of hours to climb out of the literal lowest rank lmao
there's no conspiracy

>>730049492
so if you are an outstanding player, it will take "up to the world players in the world" (roughly what the paper actually said lmao) and put them on your team to minimize your impact on the game

wow sounds fun. just like having to pay for brown people in real life who dont contribute while i have to contribute everything. even in the virtual world i have to pay for them


glad your fun is optimized but when you are actually any decent at fps shit like this is just tedious and feels like a waste of time. so yeah it works for you because you are mediocre

>>730050556
what games reset high skill players to bronze? most rank resets I've ever seen has been at most a few tiers, not resetting the whole damn thing.

>>730050776
post rank in fps of your choice

>>730050790
You keep progressing down if you dont play for multiple seasons but they keep your elo

>>730050790
fight game reset after season

>>730050867
no they don't I went from GM to Silver in Marvel Rivals after not playing it for a few seasons and went 7-0 my first session in ranked, sorry you can't climb anon.

>>730050761
feel free to try it yourself. you could google and see stories of it too.

a friend of mine paid for leveling in league of legends for his silver account and received a full refund because the guy, who was diamond (highest at the time) was unable to rank his account up past low gold.

similarly i let a guy in diamond play my gold 1 account and he couldnt win the games


if youre any decent at games theyre pretty much optimized in the most extreme way to waste your time

>>730050826
a few years ago my duel elo in quake live was top 10 in the US. is that good enough for you retarded pajeet?

>>730050776
dont play team games then retard
play fighting games or something (careful though, there have been many ego deaths when you suddenly have noone else to blame. that's why games like league are so popular)

>>730050727
That's most probably what it is doing, if you kill people upon seeing them, they're matching you with other kill on sight subhumans.

>>730051205
oh well a few years ago my duel elo in quake live was top 5 in the US

>>730051205
what the fuck are you talking about nigger
boosting works all the time
people stream themselves doing it
dunno if you just got scammed or stuck with a retard or something but the things you say are just so obviously wrong it's absurd

>>730050252
No shit people stop playing if they keep getting stomped, that's why I'm in favour of "loose SBMM" and not "no SBMM". It gets rid of the extreme cases of players getting completely destroyed by people way out of their league, but maintains the feeling of matchmaking being a bunch of random people chucked into a lobby and left to get on with it instead of feeling like the developers are trying to puppetmaster some specific outcome before the game even starts.

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I understand more competitive players being upset that they can't get some free wins here and there by not being able to match against bad players. They're faggots but there's a through-line of logic of wanting some easy wins.
What I don't understand is casual players being against SBMM. If they're upset that they can't get matched and try against better players, then why aren't they trying for competitive in the first place? And if they also want free easy wins here and there, then that's not really casual.

Ill tell you guys why its bad and I wont even need long to do so.

The whole point of an extraction shooter is the tension of not knowing what another player is going to do. Is he friendly? Is he going to pretend to be friendly and then backstab you? Is he going to kill everybody on sight? This dynamic between players in a lobby is what makes an extraction shooter good.

If youre a friendly player playing in a lobby with only friendly players, this is boring. If youre a pvp player in a lobby where everybody only kills on sight without exceptions, this is also boring.

I had the absolute most fun in this game in the first 2 weeks of playing. My lobbies seemed very mixed and it created lots of memorable situations. But because Im good at shooters, Im now permanently placed in sweatlord lobbies where there is no talking, no interaction, no anything, just shooting. And I wasnt even hyper aggressive myself at the start, I had a mixed playstyle, sometimes I had good interactions with people and left them alone or cooperated with them, and sometimes I shot people.

I dont want to kill shitters and take their stuff, I want interesting lobbies with mixed players, I want memorable situations. If I wanted to only ever pvp and nothing else I would be better off playing a Battle Royale game.

>>730051402
there no benefit to "looser" sbmm by default.
not to mention most matchmakers already get loose if you take too long to match (due to skill, connection, population, etc.)

>>730026849
>risk
Wouldn't having players of your own skill level in a match increase risk more than anything? Or is he just mad he can't dunk on clueless Timmies anymore?

>>730051386
no it's true anon
boosting is impossible because matchmaking is rigged
top 5% players need to waste literally hundreds of hours to climb out of the lowest ranks because matchmaking is rigged
can't you see? matchmaking is rigged

>>730051559
every time I ask people "what is fun about this game" and the game is an extraction shooters I get non-answers like this

>>730051206
fighting games are dead and for blacks

i climbed to diamond with no fg experience in sf6 when it came out. it wasnt fun though

>>730051386
if you were actually decent at anything it would be easier to prove the point for you to just try it yourself. since youre not and sbmm is explicitly optimized for you, the 50%, its hard to make the point

yeah some content creators can rank up accounts over literal hundreds of hours. the point is it doesnt make sense how long it takes or for them to lose games a tall

thanks for letting me know boosting exists after i tell you a story about boosting.

speaking of waste of time i have stuff to do other than talk to jayden the 15 year old of a single mother who loves ssbm in video games. glad its all fun for you hope you continue to have fun

>>730051559
>The whole point of an extraction shooter is the tension of not knowing what another player is going to do. Is he friendly?
arent 90% of people in these kinds of games shooting first?

>>730051998
nice, maybe next you'll master the art of not reddit spacing
enjoy your endless supply of copium

>>730051714
Why is it a non-answer. The most fun in an extraction shooter is to provide the most immersive experience.
Youre in a post-apocalyptic world going topside to loot things. It makes sense in such a scenario that there would be various different raiders. Friendly raiders who try to work together, cunning raiders who try to deceive others, assholes who try to rob or kill you, sometimes being able to talk your way out of a hostile situation and getting out alive, sometimes gathering up a group of people to take out a bigger threat (the robots). etc.
These were the experiences I got in the first 2 weeks when the game was new. All these various types of situations that always kept the game interesting and made the game feel immersive.
Every lobby being 20 players running around without a care in the world for their life yolo shooting you like its call of duty, really isnt it

>>730026849
>fighting game players pay pro players to play a few matches against them
>fps players want ranked to be like seal clubbing
Why is that?

>>730052272
ego

>>730052179
because "the fun is not knowing what others will do" applies to most multiplayer games in history

>>730048226
These are just Survival games like DayZ, Ark, etc.

>>730052383
You didnt even read my fucking post. I already explained this. But whatever. It doesnt matter, these Swedish retards dont know how to manage their game, they just got lucky. Im done playing it anyways

>>730052272
In team games, when YOU lose, YOU can cope by blaming your team and pretend it's not YOUR fault.
1v1 makes it clearer that when YOU lose, it's YOUR fault, so if YOU want to win, YOU have to improve.
But in one word it's this >>730052301

>>730052558
I guess I highly doubt the main appeal for most players is an immersive post-apocalypse

and to be fair this opinion was mostly forged by tarkov guys who seem to have no positive opinion on the game aside from "uuuh it's unique"

>>730052079
Arc was so fun, because first month you had a genuine 50/50 chance of meeting a friendly or a rat

>>730052670
Yeah, I got shit on when camping a key room and I still can't bring myself to play the game week later lmfao

>>730052716
honeymoon is over

>>730048246
>SBMM leads to the best player retention
It 100% is. But measuring for retention is not the same as measuring for enjoyment.

Riot unironically did a study where they realized that their fun party game type side modes, while eliciting higher enjoyability levels in players, led to less retention.

The MMR ladder grind unironically is a psychologically designed skinner box designed to mostly frustrate you, but provide enough catharsis on occasion to keep you hooked. They want you to feel like you are on the verge of hitting a big winning streak.

This is mostly why the only MP games I play anymore are party games.

>>730053495
>Riot unironically did a study where they realized that their fun party game type side modes, while eliciting higher enjoyability levels in players, led to less retention.
Source? How did they measure how enjoyable gamemodes are?

>>730053596
idk man
>play 3 aram matches in a row, close game to play another 3 matches tomorrow
>play 1 normal match and close the game for a week

If the game isn't 1v1 and uses SBMM, chances are that you are being lied to and it's using EBMM instead.

I've played both HoN and Dota 2, both use(d) essentially the same MMR system but the match quality in Dota 2 is way fucking worse because they use hidden systems instead of just pure MMR numbers + HoN had concede which clears out unbalanced roflstomp matches a lot faster. But dotards love gargling Valve's cock, think EBMM is just a concspiracy theory and don't want concede even though it cuts down the playtime you spend being forced to play worthless matches 50%-75%

>>730053495
>their fun party game type side modes, while eliciting higher enjoyability levels in players, led to less retention.
how was enjoyment measured? I assume self-report?
I dunno, while there are psychologial fuckeries at play, at the end of the day people play when they had fun and dont play when they dont have fun. you can say something is more fun but if you dont come back to play more, maybe it wasnt all that fun. or it was just novelity. or the fun runs out quickly, etc.

>>730048713
It is a middle fish being taken out of the pond they are the biggest fish in and being put in a pond where they are the smallest fish. You may say it is deserved, but all it is is choosing winners and losers. There is no moral weight to one system being better than the others. The only difference is that it leads to greater profit maximization. If the companies were convinced they could make more money feeding the small fish to the middle fish, they would.

>>730053690
That's retention. Anon mentioned higher enjoyability.

>>730053723
>how was enjoyment measured? I assume self-report?
Yes
>I dunno, while there are psychologial fuckeries at play, at the end of the day people play when they had fun and dont play when they dont have fun.
Not fully true. I am just saying they are trying to elicit the same feelings that a gambling addict has that makes him continue to play slots. In this instance, it is less socially harmful, but people should realize they are being treated like cattle and abstain. They are missing out on experiences that will yield higher enjoyment.

You kids never experienced the spiritually orgasmic catharsis of getting revenge on the guy that stomped you all last game (because you grew up with modern matchmaking that just shunts you to the next game with a gimme to make you feel better) and it shows.

>>730026849
Lol at all the shitters thinking SBMM is good for the game. The aggression based match making in Arc Raiders is shit for two major reasons, one is that it puts anyone who PvPs often into cheater lobbies, there's no "good player" lobbies, just cheater lobbies and two, PvE scrubs get an easier game to get rich for free because all they do is loot with no repercussions at all. All of this is ignoring btw the dogshit balancing of the game, when you get into PvP lobbies, you just run into trigger nade spam which is pretty much just noobtube central, you die behind cover for free because people can just make a broken weapon for free pretty much
>why do you use them if they're so broken?!
because that's gay and not fun. Its not even hard to manipulate the "SBMM" in the game, the issue is that all it does is ruin the overall feel off an extraction shooter for both sides, turning into adult daycare or cheater hell.

>>730027558
This logic is retarded because you can literally make it so you get into lobbies where people don't shoot back in Arc Raiders by free kitting and dying on purpose for 5 or so matches. Good job, you're in PvE lobbies! Your anti-PvP autism is always wrong, constantly strawmanning because you're shit at games does no one any favors.

>>730047848
Dunno what half that shit means but
>wipes
Into the trash it goes. Had enough of that shit in Rust which is shittier than this shit I won't take shit from.

>>730051402
>people chucked into a lobby and left to get on with it instead of feeling like the developers are trying to puppetmaster some specific outcome before the game even starts.
I'm so fucking tired of this shit. Let people play the fucking game and stop trying to make everything a fucking "experience" that needs to be perfectly crafted.

>>730056508
most people dont like that
most people prefer to get a match that feels fair

>>730026849
i like how open games without sbmm are because you get the top 1% in your game and shitters have to improve to an average level if they want to survive.
if youre friendly it makes it interesting having to play with murderhobos and bandits. as a pvper, people are more interesting than the arcs

>>730051205
you paid a diamond 5 45% win rate dude?
boosting/smurfing is super easy
t. done it in at least 5 games

>>730056638
I should have mentioned I wasn't just talking about matchmaking, my bad.

>>730057029
>And when you DO manage to pull off a victory against the team that's been killing the entire lobby... It's amazing.
Just because they're the top 1% doesn't mean they're invincible or immune to 1v4 encounters.

But with SBMM every match is going to feel practically the same as the last.

>>730027367
a lot of trolls (i hope).
the only game i've played with egregious SBMM was COD MW23. the system would openly fuck with your connection and hitreg mid-gunfight. in MW23 you could get around it using OHK weapons but there would be noticeable delay, and it was always against the same player or two on the enemy team.
i don't mind being matched against superior players, i just want to be able to shoot back

>>730058305
this is the problem with most anti-sbmm arguments
they are made by complete schizos

>>730035416
then somebody's waiting 5 minutes to get a game, and that's not good for content creators :^)
and the machine god will just hop on a smurf account

>>730027367
i have no idea. the worst example i've ever had was mw3 I think. i'd play one decent match, get matched with the sweatiest niggers ever the next and go like 2-20. i stopped playing the mp modes altogether and only played the extraction shooter mode because it pissed me off so fucking much.

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>>730026849
How has nobody posted the video yet?

https://files.catbox.moe/schpku.mp4

>>730048858
No because every time they stab someone in the back it is less likely those players will be PvE diplomatic.
All these griefers destroy the trust around them. Why shouldn't they belong to the same group of people that will treat them the same way because they got paired with the same people they stabbed in the back but this time it turns out they were ALWAYS a better player than them, so they got their shit kicked in?
Guess who is enjoying their game now and which side takes to forums crying?

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>>730026849
>this will genuinely kill the game
>game has one of the best retention of players in of recent memory

>>730049516
it's not if every match is a stomp either way

>>730059265
People forget meta as well. Once PvE is done and exploration groups do go murder hobo in end game
PvP IS the fun aspect of the game trios knew what it was from the get go due to resource scarcity.
The people who are bitching are one of two things. Pussies who are scared to fight and increase their odds of threats and will ALWAYS play passively and complain and griefers who get fucked by the system.

>>730058638
>somebody's waiting 5 minutes to get a game
only if you pollute the game with countless queues you can queue for
one mode, one map pool, 3-5 hard rank separations, if the game's not dead you're finding a match in a minute, rotate mode and map
>smurf
ruthlessly ban a few smurfs, both their main and alt, to scare the rest into not spending money just to pubstomp

>>730048005
BF1 has community servers.
i'm on a different coast now but there was a particular server i'd always play on because i had a good connection - until a clan of absolute fucking sweats came on. some of these faggots played every single day, because i saw them every time i hopped on, even after not playing for days or weeks. i learned there was only a certain window of time i could actually enjoy the game
the games would go from being relatively normal to becoming utterly one-sided and the server would depopulate after a short while. one vehicle whore in particular would frequently change xer's name, probably in a vain attempt to disguise itself. i call it xer because he had an anime emblem (lots of the people in that clan did).
it was the equivalent of "GREGOR has joined the server"
they weren't hacking, they were just good and cheesed the fuck out of the game in every way possible. it's like BF4 little bird pilots - no fun allowed.
i guess my point is, community servers without an active staff can be worse if a bunch of faggots colonize the server (or own it). i prefer community servers simply because i can prioritize connection, which is incredibly important in FPSes. if i'm getting assraped i can do something else lol

>have to play against people who actually fight back instead of ganking teenagers
literal crime against humanity, gamer genocide is real

>>730055972
what the fuck are you talking about? pro-sbmm isn't anti pvp you retard, jesus christ no wonder you play arc raiders

>>730059906
>I am bad at the game and played on a server above my skill level
>this is the fault of the server

It's generally a good thing - works great in fighting games like SF6, 2XKO, and Fatal Fury COTW. Only issue is when playing a an unfamiliar character in the latter two, it's hard to get a fair match.

It works in team games when it's implemented well and uses intelligent performance tracking metrics. Seemed solid in CoD when I used to play a few years ago, is ok in Marvel Rivals, and sucks shit in CS2 due to prioritizing player rank/winrate over performance metrics. Unrelated, SBMM should always be more strict in ranked modes

>>730059131
>All these griefers
Its a PvP game, retard.

>>730058483
well its what i noticed - that only ONE game did. MW19, 22, and gay ops sex weren't nearly that bad. 2042 had virtually no noticeable SBMM despite what people say

>>730059963
>pro-sbmm isn't anti pvp you retard
>just fight cheaters once you kill some players, bro!
How much did you get paid for that post, jeet?

>>730060197
>prioritizing player rank/winrate over performance metrics.
What do you mean? If your rank/elo is tied to things like KDA, that encourages people to play for KDA instead of focusing on winning the game.

>>730060395
I'm completely at a loss where cheaters came into the picture, sorry homie I'm not cut out for your jeetspeak

>>730059509
Watch any high end PvP player atm and they'll all say that SBMM ruins the game because people who PvP a lot just end up fighting cheaters. This strawman of PvP players wanting to club seals is so retarded and wrong.

>>730060027
well i guess i was implying that a bit so i can't deny that, no matter how much i want to. maybe i should've been more clear - people who are sweating in a 9 year old game like it matters are bigger losers than i am for bitching about it on this congolese cave painting forum

>>730060570
That's what Arc Raiders SBMM does to PvP players, the more you PvP the more you just end up with lobbies full of cheaters because the game uses EAC and the SBMM isn't tiered. Being for it in any other game just means you're dogshit at games anyways, SBMM keeps normal players from getting better by babying them, probably why you enjoy it.

>>730060197
>SBMM should always be more strict in ranked modes
It should only exist in ranked modes.

>>730060846
legit the take of someone unable to fight at their own level who is desperate to shit on noobs to survive their pathetic existence. sucks to suck bitch

>>730061002
I say this as someone who wants to play against people better than me when I play a new game. Keep admitting you're dogshit at games, nigger.

>>730060980
True. Losing 70% of all your games is a good fun casual experience

>>730061089
>implying this would happen
Crazy how this was never an issue before.

Meta is playing friendly for 10 games with 0 loadout, then spawning medium shield venator 4 and shooting on site the first 5 people you see in chungusvile matriarch. Then going back naked.

>>730061243
You don't even need to go that far, just free kit, shoot around someone and let them kill you for 5 games and you're instantly in daycare lobbies.

If you wanna shit on retarded Mexican kids, go play roblox, shitter.

Explain sbmm to me. Isn’t it generally a good idea to be matched with people in your skill range? I mostly play OW and the problem is that sbmm isn’t strict enough and lets smurfs continue to ruin your games.

>>730026849
If you don't like SBMM in your game, your game is a baby game.

>>730060846
>SBMM keeps normal players from getting better
lol

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SBMM should only be for ranked modes, quickplay/casual modes shouldn't have it.
It's really that simple, everyone wins.

>>730061529
>playing against someone better than you helps you get better
Yes, its why pros 1v1 people who are better than them to get better.

>>730026849
>Whats your take? Is it a bad thing to put sweats against sweats and casuals against casuals?
It's been proven time and time again that the only people who hate SBMM are players who are just a bit above average that want easy wins. They hate SBMM because they're not skilled enough to beat other skilled players.

>>730026849
>SBMM
What, like an ELO system?

>>730061676
>It's been proven time and time again that the only people who hate SBMM are players who are just a bit above average that want easy wins
Yet Pros shit on it all the time, its always bullshit from you shills.

>>730037325
People cope so hard when they pretend games with low TTKs like this take skill, it's literally just "I saw you first, I win" or "we have the numbers, we win" or "I sat in this room for 30 minutes and you just walked into it, I win"

Same shit with Rust.

>>730061668
if you can't beat someone who's slightly better than you
you can't beat someone who's significantly better than you

>>730061737
Streamers aren't pros, Jimmy.

>>730061783
If you were better you'd shoot first.

>>730061676
9/10 it's someone who is like "I just wanna play the game and relax, not try super hard!".
You can do this in other games too, it's just called smurfing there. It makes the game no fun for anyone but maybe you.

>>730061845
>its always bullshit from you shills.
NTA

>>730061845
>Apex ALGS winners actively shit on SBMM
Nice try, niggerboi.

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>>730061960
>apex "pro"

>>730062008
>no argument
concession accepted, shill.

>>730062008
>Shitting on anything
>While being a one piece fan (or even just posting it)
Oof.flac

I'm distrustful of any "sbmm" unless it lays out exactly how it functions in full detail and proves it doesn't deliberately make uneven matchups for the sake of engagement.

>>730026849
How about a play time-based MM system? Smurfs would still obviously exist but separating 10 hour niggas from 100 hour seems miles better than some arbitrary in game metrics

>>730026849
>the most tryhard of players need to have the easy way out aka easily killing less skilled players
>but we seriously expect the less skilled or casual crowd of dealing with it the hard way since its "git good" and not taking the easy way out of "not playing the game since they're not having fun"

>>730061396
>Isn’t it generally a good idea to be matched with people in your skill range?
NO.
1. It forces my winrate to be 50% which is fucking bullshit. I'm above average. I want everyone to see my winrate is above average.
2. It forces me to lose 50% of the time which is fucking bullshit. I'm above average. I want to win an above average percentage of games.
3. It forces me to play well to win which is fucking bullshit. I want easy wins and I want to force all the low skill players to lose the majority of their games. I don't care if it makes them quit and the game's population crashes.

>>730026849
Why can't we just have race based matchmaking?
>It's the same thing.

>>730061074
>I say this as someone who wants to play against people better than me
>arc raiders
barking up the wrong tree here dumbass

>>730062384
Is this bait? 1. and 2. are the exact the same point and 3. is just garbage.
>It forces me to lose 50% of the time which is fucking bullshit. I'm above average. I want to win an above average percentage of games.
If your win rate is 50% at a high skill level, wouldn't that mean that's where you belong? If your win rate was above that, you should probably in a higher skill rank.
>I want easy wins and I want to force all the low skill players to lose the majority of their games. I don't care if it makes them quit and the game's population crashes.
This is just an argument for SBMM.

>>730062638
Not an argument, faggot.

This shit is just like when Sea of Thieves added a PvE mode after years of noobs crying. After being smug about it they will then grind piss easy PvE with absolutely zero resistance in care bear lobbies, run out of things to do and complain that the game is boring. Arc Raiders is in that smug phase rn while already being baby mode tarkov in the first place.
You will remember this post when you will read the "Arc Raiders has lost XY% of it's player base" posts in a few months.

The entire point of a PvEvP game is to match players with different playstyles and objectives and create predator/prey interaction, segregating it is just creating two shitty games (one PvP and one PvE)

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>>730026849
SBMM means I always have to play 100% in something I mostly do for leisure
it's retarded and only propped up by ranked-slaves who are too invested in 'bein gud' but too scared to play 1v1 vidyas.
Want a fair challenge? Go and put in effort to find scrims or tournaments, scumsucker

>>730058483
Patents. Read the matchmaking patents owned by these companies.
It's that fucking simple lmfao. I know there's a lot of reading and it's tough when English is your second language, but give it a go. You can probably even run them through a translator if you need to

>>730063050
Only good argument ITT, thank you I finally get it.

>>730062719
>1. and 2. are the exact the same point
NO they're not.
#1 is it makes me look bad. I am above average and 50% winrate doesn't look good.
#2 is I deserve to win more.
If someone is average, they should lose 50% of their games. I am above average and therefore deserve to win more than 50% of my games. That's how life works.

>>730063137
world of difference between designing a matchmaking algorithm with psychological trickery to maximise retention and FUCKING WITH THE CONNECTION MID-MATCH IN A SHOOTER AKA THE THING MATCHMAKING GENERALLY PRIORITISES OVER EVERY OTHER METRIC - A STABLE PING

fucking retarded schizos, maybe read the posts in the chain before jumping at the chance to get your sick zinger in

>>730063050
predator/prey interaction would be good if the TTK wasnt a millisecond and you had worthwhile counterplays after being shot at first

This system is very abusable in arc raiders because of the aggressiveness in the matchmaking. Die 5 times without shooting and you will 100% be put in carebear lobbies. Shooting someone in the back in the carebear lobby will instantly put you back into pvp kos lobbies. It’s way too binary rather than a slow sliding scale.

That being said it’s also a neat experiment where we get to see niggers are in fact truly violent people and whites/mexicans are generally retarded. PvE lobbies are 80% white retarded rednecks, pvp lobbies are almost all niggers with dreads. Both are easily manipulated in different ways. For instance you can gun down rednecks by simplying asking a question, like where do I find an industrial battery then gun them down while they stand there clueless. Or for niggers, simply tell them they are weird and to pull up pussy and they will abandon cover and rush you. Once you understand this system it’s extremely easy to game

>>730063235
>1. It forces my winrate to be 50% which is fucking bullshit. I'm above average. I want everyone to see my winrate is above average.
>2. It forces me to lose 50% of the time which is fucking bullshit. I'm above average. I want to win an above average percentage of games.
I see what you mean, one is about appearences and one is about actually playing.
Here let me fix it for you:
>It forces my winrate to be 50% which is fucking bullshit. I'm above average. I want everyone to see my winrate is above average and I want to win an above aveerage percentage of games.
That way you don't have to put two of the same sentences in the same point.

>>730063368
I agree but what that should tell you is it’s a shitty game where the developers want people who are terrible to be able to beat people who are good

>>730055850
This. But people will endlessly justify it.

>>730055850
>>730063050
These two are correct. SBMM can be argued for in a game like CS or DOTA or anything else with a high skill cap, not Arc Raiders.

>>730062772
what is there to argue, you're complaining about sbmm in a thread about the most casual extraction shooter on the market by design, meant to give the casual player a good time. probably why you stand out like a retard an no one takes you seriously

>>730063915
If its so casual then why does it need SBMM? Your own bullshit doesn't even work.

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>>730026849
>I do remember there being some discussion about SBMM somewhat ruining the old school server feel in CS.
Its not specifically about SBMM, its about matchmaking killing casual community servers.

CS in 2026 is a different beast to how it used to be, being far more hyper competitive than it used to be. CS2 would be dogshit without SBMM, the game would be horrible without balanced teams.

But oldheads really miss casual community servers cause the CS community has been moved onto matchmaking via Competitive (CSGO), Premier (CS2) and Faceit

>>730063473
>I see what you mean, one is about appearences and one is about actually playing.
YES exactly. But since you were levelheaded I want to confess that both my posts were satirical. Sorry for wasting your time.

>>730063316
Gazeebo!

>>730026849
Matchmaking is inherently dogshit but SBMM is better than non-SBMM because it gives you what you put in, bringing it slightly closer to the ideal by giving the player a choice in their experience.
Want to play casually? Play casually and it'll match you against players of that level.
Want to sweat like a dog? Sweat and it'll match you against players of that level.
The only problem unique to SBMM is if the game only has a single type of queue with a universal player rank stopping the player from easily switching between casual and competitive play. There should be separate playlists for each with separate rankings.

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>>730058916
>NOOOO, YOU HAVE TO MATCH AND PLAY WITH RETARDS LIKE THIS BECAUSE... BECAUSE...
>YOU JUST HAVE TO ALRIGHT?!

>>730026849
This is good because its not a matter of skill. Aggression based determines how many times you waited unseen, wasting time off your life, just to shoot a player in the back or doing a task unaware of your presence. That behavior alone should get you matched with other players that do the same.

>>730065047
>go to the high loot PvP focused map
>cry when killed
lol
lmao

>>730063050
But what stops people getting stomped from just uninstalling and all the people looking for that kind of mismatch having nothing to do?

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People get to caught up on the forced 50/50 concept. I wouldn't care that I was going to lose half my games if all of those games were going be absolute photo finish games where one side just barely beats out the other. How SBMM achieves a 50/50 is by alternating between saddling you with sub-sapient babbons who power throw the entire game, or stick you with what has to be s training pro team that carries you to a curb stomp. Neither of these scenarios are fun. One of my best ever Dota games I had was reverse smurfing into a higher rank game as a support.

>>730064104
it doesn't have sbmm though? are you also unable to read on top of being a retard?

>>730037325
Since game is 3ps, any sexy skins for grils?

>>730067035
No and all characters look like mutts.

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>All these angry ass replies
If you shoot people, you get matched with griefers and deserve everything you get I hope it's a permanent strike baring you forever, or go make another steam account and buy the game again LOL
I played 20 matches today and got shot at only by ARC
You are just a piece of shit lol it's that simple

>>730066186
>How SBMM achieves a 50/50 is by alternating between saddling you with sub-sapient babbons who power throw the entire game, or stick you with what has to be s training pro team that carries you to a curb stomp.
it really doesnt do that for 99% of the playerbase. 99% are average enough that you can easily fill both teams with players of that skill bracket

>>730067425
no you see somehow every game floods every rank with equal amounts of bad players and good players then makes you diceroll for the good ones, because they simply cannot figure out how to find evenly matched players despite their ability to do what I described above.

I don't like any kind of SBMM. Sometimes I'm going to own, sometimes I'm going to get raped. But I'll never know what to expect, and I'll learn to be ready for anything. I had no problems the decade of counter-strike I played.

They should just make a pve mode since the game was originally intended to be just that.

>>730067880
But that's not trendy.

>>730067880
It is if you're not a sweat lol

>>730068486
You can still be a sweat, just need to die 5 times and boom, free PvE farm in a fucking extraction shooter.

Why are these PvP retards acting like you will get placed in servers where it is 100% guaranteed that anyone in a so-called "PvE" server will be friendly? It's almost certainly implemented in a way where it's just more likely. I've had runs where I play PvE just to make some cash and you kinda notice it, but there's been plenty of times where you still get shot at.

These stupid PvP morons haven't shut up since the game came out about IT'S PART OF THE GAME BRO IT'S JUST PART OF THE GAME BRO and when the game gets an update that increases the chance of them being put in servers to play the way they want to play, you guys are fucking mad for some reason. We all know why these losers are actually mad. Most of these "PvP" players are just complete scumbags playing like complete lowlife losers. Ran into one of these guys the other day and I pull up his Steam profile and he's got a VAC ban on record. Really makes you think.

>>730066424
ABMM is literally SBMM but for retards, not surprised a retard like yourself cant see that.

>>730027537
People who suck at the game are still engineered to lose half of their matches so it's not like they're in a particularly fun place either

>730068780
bad bait.

>>730048717
Because forcing 50/50 winloss rates is not the same as playing with people of your skill level.

>>730068556
Nope, you can dilute it but it won't reset, not even after weekly maintinence. Best you can do is hope that the 10% of greifers get knocked before you run into them. You did it to yourself only way to get PvE lobbys is to buy another account

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>>730069978

>>730031490
Dota 2, Heroes of Newerth, LoL, Go online on online-go.com, Chess on chess.com or Lichess, Warcraft 3 on w3champions. Basically any game with matchmaking based on MMR/ELO.

I legitimately don't understand how anybody can stand this slop for longer than a couple hours. Nothing is implemented to a standard that feels good to interact with it's like I'm playing a polished version of a generic third person shooter. There isn't even a home or room system to collect stuff for.
>Watch best FPS players in the world play Arc
>They can barely trade favorably VS average PvP players because there's 0 skill expression
>Looting is actively unfun within an hour of playtime
I'm sure the PvE enemy code is interesting to developers but the enemies are uniformly boring. This isn't groundbreaking behavior it's stuff that the Fortnite team has implemented years before. Maybe it feels good for people to have a chat room like the old days but that's always existed in new games as long as you didn't get stuck thinking MMOs were still developed as social games.

>>730069620
yeah, but if they suck as you say, they're just happy to get any wins
so it does make things fun for them

>>730072992
It's cozy as fuck for loot goblins, I have a list on the side of what I need and I try and do atleast one quest every match. The NPCs are easy but borderline hacking at some points making you play smarter and careful. This is babys first extraction shooter, not pubg dumb nigger go express you "skill" someplace else

>>730026849
i still think unlimited free kits are fucking retarded

>>730027045
>>could go on for hours
ive started translating this in my head as "im retarded"
because every single person who says "i could go on for hours" or "i could do better in my sleep" or "there are hundreds of better solutions" is in fact retarded.
without question.

>>730047583
>Tarkov
i have never heard a tarkov player talk positively about their game
they always describe how miserable they are playing it and everything wrong with the game and the devs who make it and then say "... but you should totally give it a try"
no thanks.
i know a battered wife when i see one.

>>730070260
>Dota 2, Heroes of Newerth, LoL, Go online on online-go.com, Chess
>putting team based games where they try to force your 50/50 win rate by manipulating teams around with 1v1 games where you are just genuinely matched against equivalent ranked players until you raise your rank to your intended skill level

>>730027367
They misinterpret the system as a way of making the game fairer, when in reality it's used to pistolwhip you like a good cuck into playing more because you might win the next one and get that feeling of satisfaction after several losses.

>>730067880
There's not enough content for a PvE mode. In a few years when there's more "boss" Arcs and map conditions it would be great but right now the people asking for PvE don't realize that if that happened they'd finish everything in a week.

>>730072992
>There isn't even a home or room system to collect stuff for.
This is wrong, there is a room which shows all the stuff you collect, its just, like a lot of the stuff you mentioned, boring.

>>730073364
Go play a singleplayer game, nigger.

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>>730030505
>if the game allows [thing] then [thing] is the entire purpose of the game

So this game exited the exploration phase and jumped into the optimization phase, just like Hunt: Showdown.

>>730068780
Yeah it really is just this. Also when you are in a friendly feeling server that is the best time to do some trolling. Why would you continue being an effective loot goblin when you can do funny shit.
I shoot people so arc kills them.

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>>730026849
Arc Raiders pisses me off, can't even commit to full on PvP because i feel bad for killing randoms

You have so many fun devices like lure grenades and can ninja smoke yourself. Trolling is a great pastime

I never understood why FPS fags hate skill based matchmaking so much.
Is it a casual/ego thing? Where actually playing against someone of your own skill level makes you upset?

>>730051559
You’re put in those lobbies becuase you yourself play aggressively
>no i dont
Thats fine maybe its miscalibrated for you but if your experience is that severe maybe you have no idea how you came across to other players

>>730058305
notice how it's always codniggers or other goyim eho enjoy the sloppiest of slop who complain about SBMm
>>730028542
trvke

>>730076046
Its because that's not how it works and you just end up fighting good players while carrying shitters because the game wants you to win/lose games.

>>730035752
>CS is only played by whites
russians and euros are white?

>>730077048
Yes, Pablo.

>>730076925
Isn't that just a cope, there are many team based games with skill based matchmaking

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my views are more nuanced on SBMM than most people on /v/. in figting games SBMM is a must-so many games casual matches are just top 10% players who want to play/practise games without losing ranks. unless it's a discord fighter where noobs get personally coached by senpais

on the other hand, on games like arma reforger SBMM would be retarded, because the ehole point of the game is to goof around, the game is fun because everybody is shit and even if someone very skilled tries to win he can't do much(excluding LAVniggers ofc)

so more competitive and less players in a match=SBMM, more players and more casual=/=SBMM

>>730077141
Calm down, shill.

>>730077187
I'm just curious, it's weird that it's only FPSfags that have a problem with it.
fighting game fags get upset because their games don't have proper skill based matchmaking