How come Law is always portrayed as bad in SMT while Chaos is vaguely bad and Neutral is always the real good route?
>>730508405Because Lucifer can be vaguely good despise being an occasional dickhead while YHVH is perpetually a dickhead.
>>730508405If you are decently strong then Chaos can be pretty good, if not then life sucks. But in Law everyone gets fucked over and life sucks.
>>730508405law isnt bad in the old games, it's a modern media thing
>>730509007In SMT 2, the Law route literally nukes the world with the only survivors being the people on the ark.
>>730509150that's a good thing
>LawCalvinist Millenarianism, very at odds with Japanese polytheism and weak eschatology>ChaosFascism with Luciferian and (increasingly) Gnostic characteristics>NeutralJapanese ultra-nationalism when portrayed as good, weak ineffective Western style liberal democracy when portrayed as bad
Law in both base V and Vengeance are good
>>730508405I remember when you fought the Demon King in every JRPG instead of GodWhy did that change
>>730508405Because japs are still mad about Christianity being true
REDUX is the apology for shit law routes>ending can't even mention a single negative and the world is perfect, everyone is happy>except mastema
>>730508405because japs arent a fan of christianity, chaos is more in line with their believes
>>730509345holy shit someone who played the game
Akira!Chaos is the best ideology. Achieving power to ensure peace
>>730508405because it is about youth and stagnation is bad, while chaos is change and neutral is understanding both sides. >>730508897this nails it though the typical MC is powerful and so it is fun to be in chaos. the same conditions of a normal person would be like grinding Eldin Ring with a 5x experience requirement. Yet you aren't allowed to die and have to rest for years after fatal mistakes.
>>730509150Well, maybe other people should’ve gotten on the ark if they wanted to live.
>>730508405the Law ending for V is genuinely the best one, chaos and neutral are almost laughable in comparison>see how the new ruler watches from his throne, how greatly pleased he is with his work
my DOUBLE KING
>>730511043i dont remember if it was the chaos or neutral ending, but i had to laugh when one line was just "it may trouble a lot people, but who cares lol"
>>730509345You gotta look at it this way. If you're a God, why do you HAVE to dictate every aspect of your creations?
As more time passes, smt VV might be my favorite game this decade
>>730508405> How come Law is always portrayed as bad in SMT Not at all, it can come off as harsh and unsympathetic because it’s strict, but if you actually play the games it really doesn’t have a worse representation of Chaos at all. In fact law can have very positive representations, in fact smt 2 is law focused even if the law ending has genocide (it’s not like smt 3’s doesn’t TDE end in even worse genocide). Both smt 2’s law ending and smt 3’s tde forces everyone to reincarnate out of the cycle
>>730508405The SMT devs are communists and philo-semites. You should have realized this after Metaphor: ReFantazio
>>730511469You don't. It's just that YHVH really wants to do that, unlike the Great Will.
>>730511648That’s literally Law
>>730509150And it’s the canon ending
>>730508405Law isn't portrayed as bad, it's portrayed as giving yourself up to a supreme being and letting said supreme being delegate everything. If you view that as a bad thing then you're basically sympathetic to Satan's mindset which places Satan/humanity first and wants to be a rebellious edgy boy. The SMT universe doesn't even really make much sense why you would view humanity is the ultimate example of being when there is a version of actual God existing in it you can't do anything against anyway so what the hell are you throwing your weight around for?
>>730511648Look up the politics of the original SMT creator
>>730511883The writer of the original Digital Devil Story novels is a Lawfag who refuses to use Dark skills when playing Megaten games.
>>730508405Because the system is broken and law is defend the current system. That said this same game had Tao who IS a kind hearted good Law rep. And previously the original Law Hero was also a good guy even if the messians weren't.
>>730512118No I never really liked Moloch's design
>>730512118Didn't the jews have lots of gods in their early days? The Bible insists that they only have capital-G God as their singular god, but apparently they had a time where they also followed Enlil, Asherah, and other major deities worshiped in the Mesopotamian area.
>>730512486It's like mexican peasants today worshipping Mary as a goddess. It wasn't official doctrine by the educated elites, but dumb peasants still worshipped minor gods along YHVH, even if more educated jews warned against it
>>730512437A Jewish God in SMT would be closer to Masakado than YHVH, more ethnic less universalist.
>>730509541There is only like 1 game where you fight God properEvery other JRPG only has you fight some demiurge style impostor
>>730508405Devil Survivor 1 is a lawchad gameLaw is also the least grim ending in Strange Journey (or best I guess in the redux fanfiction endings)
>>730508897everyone gets to live a happy school life at the beginning of V. Nobody was complaining or asking to get telported to a wasteland
>>730508405fuck politics, i pick neutral since it offers more game content
>>730512601Were there any "educated jews"? I don't mean it to say that they're retarded, but they all collectively decided to worship the golden calf even when God demonstrated his power right before them. Maybe I'm misinterpreting, but it sounds more like every jew, even the elders, chose to worship multiple gods. Isn't that why God specifically mentions not to worship other gods over him?
>>730512920This is the real crime, Lawfags and Chaosfags shouldn't get cucked out of endgame content just for picking a route they thought looked cool
>>730512750It literally means nothing
>>730512750It's a Hebrew name for God, the Tetragrammaton. The character of YHVH is sort of based on the Old Testament portrayal of God but calling him a Jewish God is a stretch.
>>730512994I'm talking about when people say that back in the day YHVH had a wife in Asherah. Just because some dumb peasants conflated YHVH with other deities and worshipped him along others, it doesn't meant that everyone did that or that it wasn't condemned, and yes there were periods where the majority of jews did that, but an 'orthodoxy' of monotheism along remained, no matter how small
>>730508405Asian people hate and fear Abrahamic religion, and they also do not understand it even slightly, so every game that features it is going to come across as fucking retarded unless you're a reddit atheist and you also don't know what the fuck you're talking about.
>>730513206always*
>>730508405The idea is that Lucifer, despite being a dick himself, will nominally throw humans a bone. Also his demons aren't usually hypocrites (usually) as Angels also prefer Chaos despite their allegience.
>>730508405Law Hero was literally the most noble character in the game right after the Hero.
I swear that people who think that Chaos sounds appealing also greatly overestimate themselves. In a world without law, you have no rights. You are not protected by anything, if someone saw you from a distance and thought "Yum, meat/resources" and sniped you off, that's it. If you come by a gang of rapist cannibals, what are you going to do?>Nah, I'd win>You'll all die because you're stupid but I'm smart and I don't plan on dying unlike you>I will be free and the most powerful and everyone will accept this and stand up and start clapping because I am the main character>Yeah, I could solo a bear in hand-to-hand combatAnd the simple fact is that law arises from chaos, because somebody who actually obtains power will inevitably enforce it and their systems upon others. Whether that's slavery in the sense of the ancient Egyptians being forced to construct the pyramids and sphinxes under a Pharaoh and his soldiers, or whether that's SMT IV's Mikado where there are Luxurors and Casualries, people will fall into castes. There cannot be a winner without there being losers, and life on an individual scale, by its very nature, pursues winning. Pure Chaos is temporary and it's living inside a bloody blender where all are equal in the face of the inevitability that is a brutal death.
>>730512739You mean OG greenman?
>>730512920>Law route in SMT 1 and 2: Go fuck up Lucifer or Asura >Chaos route in SMT 1 and 2: Go fuck up YHVH or Michael>Neutral route in SMT 1 and 2: Go kill both lolIt's more like reusing content than having more of it.
>>730513449This is talked about in the Infernal Tokyo section.
What's Yatagarasu talking about here?
>>730508405Neutral is the option God would say is right
>>730513206I see. But is it really dumb conflation? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I remember reading a long time ago that YHVH correlated with the top god El, and his characteristics were directly inspired by the storm and war gods, who were major deities in the area. It seemed to make sense to me, given YHVH's seemingly tempermental and more aggressive approach in his earlier years.
>>730513587El isn't even a proper name. It just means deity. People also say YHVH was conflated/absorbed Baal, but again, Baal isn't a proper name, it just means 'lord'.The Bible condemns integration with the native canaanites and conflation, meaning the educated elite who compiled it did indeed have a sense of orthodoxy
>>730508405Because Law represents complete order at the loss of the self, an inherently terminating exercise for an individual. If you follow it from an absolute perspective it is not necessarily bad, but simply an absolutely shit deal for autonomous beings like you or I. It could be said that above and beyond the plot details that always show the inherent flaws of a completely orderly society, it is also meant to illustrate such order is inimical to the human condition. Similarly, extreme Chaos illustrates that we cannot be truly liberated and free without destroying ourselves in the processWe are both chaotic and orderly, it is only through a delicate balance of both interplaying upon one another that we can move forwards.
>>730513397bless you!
>>730513467They worship a fucking box hiding a stupid dumb rock when they aren't worshiping their silly cow whale or their eternally retarded tranny Baphomet.
>>730511043>>730511456True neutral ending just gets rid of all demons not Nahobina, but he still has his powers.
>>730508405Neutral is the good route because you should approach life with a flexible mindset rather than bending over backwards to defend atrocities that happen to come from your side
>>730513914>El isn't even a proper name. It just means deity. People also say YHVH was conflated/absorbed Baal, but again, Baal isn't a proper name, it just means 'lord'.That's a nonsense arguement. That's like downplaying God just because his name just means deity, just capitalized.
>>730514846people say El was conflated with YHVH just because YHVH uses the title El/Elohim in the bible
Smt 4a has that cringe ending thay everyone that doesn't play smt thinks every smt game has
>>730508405the idea is, absolute order and absolute choas are both inherently evil.
>>730513165>calling him a Jewish God is a stretch.oh?
>>730513560My guess would be Raidou reference
>>730513560If it's not some real-world Illuminati-style stuff, it's referring to the Miles Edgeworth spinoff of Ace Attorney.
>>730508405https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoALN7HnvxA
>>730508405CHADZAI got to fuck this!?
>>730508405>Mom made me go to church, now I will have my revengeWho plays this shit?
>>730508405It doesn't, they're all depicted as extreme moralities and insane ideologies. Even Tao and Yoko are insane by normal standards. In reality both Law and Chaos are complete non starter ideologies, anarchy cannot create a future for the world and a world without freedom cannot exist. It's just a neat way to show how politics and reality work in the real world.
>>730508405Because Law implies absolute order and predestination. The loss of self. The loss of what defines you as a human.In a wider sense, pushed to its extreme, Chaos implies entropy and Law implies the lack of entropy. The null state. Cessation of existence.
>>730511708>law is communistYou stupid fuck in smt1, law was america. Literally.
>>730513360>>730513397
>>730513165>Christianity is not a sect of Judaism that worships the Hebrew God and believes Christ is the King Of The Jews because.... it just isn't
>>730508405Law is about sacrificing your life in service of something else, so literal bootlicker belief take a guess why you cant very easily portray that as a good thingChaos at least has the idea if you're strong enough you can make the world for yourself, and because you are protag-kun you are by default strong enough and dont have to think about being weak in a might makes right worldNeutral is literally the Human route, thats the entire point so of course its going to be the good route to most players
>>730514556Neutral is a misnomer though, it's really just a lack of a decision rather than taking both sides into consideration. Maintaining the status quo isn't a solution, and Chaos vs Law aren't specific ideologies that you can just not side with like the left vs right irl.
>>730512845Further alignment depictions.Also despite promises of liberal co-existence and cooperation early on Lucifer often just flies off and says "not my problem." after you've done his dirty work.
>>730508405Lawfags are commies, Chaosfags are Lolbertarians, and neutralgods just want to grill.
>>730520849The problem with your definition is that what's best for humanity is subjective. Humanity is made up of law fags and chaos fags essentially. To to choose one way of life harms the other. To choose neutrality actually harms both.
>>730513428Yoshio* was the most nobleI refuse to consider Law Hero the same person as Yoshio, Law Hero is a fucking fake wearing my friend's skin
>>730521135I dont even mean human route as "whats best for humanity" I mean it as "its the route that wants all the demons gone entirely", pretty much status quo. The only question you need to ask is whether or not the world you presently live in would be better if demons actually existed and took over, and majority people would say no even if humanity still sucks with or without demons
>>730521058>Lawfags are commiesWhy are there retards saying this shit? Did you even play 1?
>>730521606Media literacy award
>>730521606>she thinks communist societies don't purge their undesirables
>>730521759His name is literally "THORman"
>>730521793America is communist?
>>730512920>>730513507It would be so easy for the games to contrive that once Chaos or Law become strong enough because of the player Neutral joins the opposition to better their odds.They've done similar contrivances to justify boss fights anyway, in SMT2 if you choose Law you fight Lucifer's underlings for obvious reasons, and he hand waves it that he didn't help because if they were worthy they'd win or survive, if you choose Chaos however Lucifer says you had to prove yourself worthy by getting to him, in TDE there's a similar thing, and how canon a separate game's ideas are to the prior may vary to some but SMTIV implies it's no "test" and Lucifer has no qualms simply killing Demi-fiend after he's outlived his usefulness.Yes, this is a Law Chad rant. It's also a TRVTH orbital satellite strike.
>>730508405usually chaos is the basic ethos of videogames. find strongest and kill them. neutral is for people with empathylaw is both full of murder like chaos but also has you being a bitch slave
>>730521606He doesn't mean that literally, anon. Communism by definition and by how reality works can't exist without enforcing your law on others by stripping them of all their freedom and individuality.
>>730521753Why do faggots infect every community?
Smt is about summoning demons.How can it not be biased against law?
>>730522008Technically, Angels are still Demons too
>>730521996Capitalism already does this. By definition all structured society does this.
>>730509303Fascism has a strong focus on national identity and order. I'd argue Chaos is closer to Egoism or post leftism.
>>730513449Chaos is just an illusion. It's just a trick of the eye; humans are too retarded to understand just how intricate our reality goes, and when we hit a wall we're too stupid to understand, we say "It's chaos."But pseud teenagers like imagining it as a cosmic force of le randomness or something, and honestly, Japanese culture has very little of philosophical merit to say on the subject so I wouldn't really bother giving them the benefit of the doubt. They don't understand the concept the same way I have trouble understanding animist bullshit like yokai without reducing it down to "demons," and the japs are completely incapable of comprehending what a demon is without just reducing it down to being little more than an aesthetic variant of a yokai.They don't know what they're talking about, therefore I don't take them seriously.Also, the whole Law/Chaos paradigm is born from a retarded era of video game history. Nobody likes the era of retarded moral systems being shoehorned crappily into games.
>>730515028>alice dokoSuperboss
>>730521997Did you even play V?
>>730521997There's nothing faggot about it
I have V on sœytch, should I get Vengenace on there or get it for pc and play it there?
>>730521880yes and pandas are police cars
>>730522390It's a turn based JRPG so you don't need top tier performance, but it is disappointingly ugly on Switch.
>>730522092No? All societies just enforce their law with violence because that's an infallible and fundamental aspect of reality. The libertarians still want to use violence to enforce their world view too, but you wouldn't say they're the same as commie scum for obvious reasons.
>>730508405Law fundamentally runs counter to the notion of "one guy against the world" that almost every video game bases its premise off ofYou're put in the shoes of a character who grows stronger over the course of the game and is antagonized by tons of different forces to give the player something to beatLaw conceptually supposes that you are not the strongest being in this game, rather that you fight to uphold a stronger being's beliefs/systemsAnd especially in SMT, you know that this stronger being is someone you can actually fight/kill as you've done in previous entriesSo rather than having the player align themselves with a background NPC who's just "stronger" by virtue of the plot, you're asking players to deliberately castrate their power to lend greater power to another character
Play SMT Imagine
>>730508405they have to make law very obviously bad because brainlets will default to thinking its good unless they beat you over the head with it, hell even when it creates lifeless dystopian realities retards will still say its the good ending right now
>>730522525>they still want to use violence-Right there. You just admitted it.>I prefer one type of violence over the other.
>>730509345I like that Law and Chaos "switched personalities" in V.
>>730522772What do you mean?
>>730508405because years ago it was subvertive and counterculturenow it's overdone
>>730508405Based radical centrist game
>Sacrifice your free will to sustain order>Sacrifice order to uphold free will (everyone kills each other)Law and Chaos are both huge faggots
>>730523089Except centrists in real life aren't based like neutralfags, because neutralfags will just burn down both of the other sides instead of a centrist saying "erm well both sides make good points".
>>730522707I said as much in my first post, anon. Stopping someone from raping your child or killing a man to take his gold watch are both violence, but so is not letting people steal your property under threat of police action and arresting criminals. Violence isn't an ideology, every single person in the world supports violence. It has nothing to do with ideological stuff like whether you want people to have freedoms like property rights or whether you want some God to decide what life is like is for every individual, whether you're a chaosfag or lawfag violence is the only way to bring about and maintain your ideal world because by definition you have to use force to make people follow it. Our political systems and social structures all revolve around a tug of war between freedom (Chaos) and restrictions (Law), we all collectively decide what freedoms we want to restrict or sacrifice in order to maintain other forms of freedom IE you can't just take bread from a store or else the government will punish you, enforcing that ensures the individuals right to sell bread freely whereas a world of true chaos would just have the strongest gang taking all the bread for themselves. Communism specifically is just a retarded utopia view that doesn't understand that simple reality, just like you aren't meant to wholeheartedly agree with what Law is like and instead just agree with the overall concept.
>>730522390The other anon is right about the genre not requiring high performance, but go for PC anyway so you can stretch out your experience post game through the modding scene.
>>730513449>Whether that's slavery in the sense of the ancient Egyptians being forced to construct the pyramids and sphinxes under a PharaohDidnt happen btw, just jewish victim fantasies.
Broadly speaking, the same reason Christian God is so often the main antagonist in JRPGs. Law in the SMT series is synonymous with Heaven, and living without freedom under God.What I want to see is more Western games where the main antagonist turns out to be Buddha or Emperor Hirohito or some shit. Same vibe.
>>730523881Well, I won't be like this creep in the thread giggling about his nude Alice mods, but at least 60fps would be nice.Despite the nonexistent story I really loved smt5 so I wouldn't mind going back to it, even if I never beat demi fiend (the fight is just too bullshit man).
>>730523947
>>730524331the pyramids were built by paid contractors, not Hebrew slavesthere are receipts
>>730524136>Christian God is so often the main antagonist in JRPGsPeople say this a lot, but I honestly can't think of an example of it. Even YHVH isn't really a direct example of the Christian God and that's probably the most direct one you can find, most jrpgs I can think of either have the church be subverted by an evil force or feature a different religion/god.
In SJ the Law route is unironically better than Chaos
been meaning to play ps5 royal and smt vengeance since they released the updated versions...but replaying 80+ hour games ughhhh
>>730524331>he's THIS far behind the factsDamn son, time to read some papers
smt iva was my first atlus game. this nigga just resonatedkill the fucking gods.
>>730524653I think its just the result of a bad game of telephone, the original belief is that a lot of jrpgs end in you killing A God, not strictly THE God, which does in fact happen a lot. That or it's an opinion parroted by secondaries who dont actually care and just want to mock people who enjoy things they dont.Might be a bit of both actually now that Im thinking about it
>>730523834>Communism specifically is just a retarded utopia view that doesn't understand that simple realityOne of the foundations of Communism is arming laborers with guns.
>>730524653Yes, if you want to be pedantic it is usually some demon-like entity that has taken control of some Christian church-based organisation. It doesn't usually turn out to be the actual omnipotent benevolent Christian God that you actually fight in the last battle, but rather some kind of manipulative evil. But that doesn't mean in the SMT series or the Tales series, or the Xeno series or Breath of Fire series or the Disgaea series or plenty of other series that you aren't matched up against an analogous force to the angels of Heaven and the antagonist is all based around Christian iconography.
>>730524860I love apocalpyse because its so shitty in its writing and Im not kidding. I actually WANT to be an evil bastard and kill all these people who call themselves my friends, because these people fucking SUCK save for maybe 2 of them
>>730523314That why I said radical centristsIf you guys don't let us grill, we will kill
>>730525047>real communism has never been triedAlways used in a mocking intent, but the statement is factually true.
>>730525145That's bananacakes.
>>730525047So how come modern cultural Marxists are so against the common people being armed?
>>730523089>>730523314when are based radical centrists going to become a thing?
>>730512854...in a fantasy recreation of the city held together by cheap tape
>>730525145>I love apocalpyse because its so shitty in its writing and Im not kiddingIt's not exactly unintentional that they're annoying. Given how everything in the marketing up to the very box art suggests at the Massacre route.
>>730509150You help YHWH nuke the world then immediately kill him to punish him for nuking the world after you helped him
>>730524992>>730525116Nobody is going to debate the notion that jrpgs use a god or a being that's taken the power of one, but the claim is always that it is very often something analogous to God (noun) which doesn't really seem to be the case as far as I can tell. Even Disgaea (which is a weird choice considering it's a subversion intentionally) in your examples doesn't have that at all and the final boss is just a high ranking angel who is played straight unlike the things it's satirizing.
>>730525736Marx was actually not a real communist, he was an industrialist plant from the Phillips family, and JewishMarx did more harm to communism than anything, and likely killed the movement in the crib by making it a tool of his banker family instead of a tool against them
>>730526173>Marx was actually not a real communistHell of a take right there
>>730525145Where's the FUCK SOCIETY one?
>>730525736They're against the opposing side having guns
>>730509150Here's a thing about the Law route of SMT2, since I know none of you shits played it.The ark nuking the world is a sucker punch. You're actively trying to save Holytown up until right before Lucifer unleashes cataclysm and Satan is all like "I know how to fix this" you follow him and he's all like "Let's nuke the world" and he just does it the absolute madman. You're immedately tossed into the final boss afterwards.
>>730526453
>>730525047And they also want to destroy the concept of private property to give control over it all to something that totally isn't just the state with more power, while also letting the state mandate prices of goods and services with direct control over the market which cannot work as an economic system. They want to take those private assets and enforce compliance to their laws through threat of direct violence, because that's the only way it can function as a system (until it inevitably fails because there's no incentive for any individual to improve or be invested in their society whatsoever). It's an extreme ideology that has failed many times before and will always do so because it runs counter to human nature.
>>730526638trvth nvke
>>730512437That's the real one, not the video game version.>>730512750It's basically another way of saying Jehovah.
>>730522534I don't think it's necessary that the God you follow in Law is always YHVHAlbeit in any case the limitations of the God are always present since the God is clearly not all powerful, else he would not be waging an even war against Chaos
YHVH did nothing wrong.
>>730508405Have you played Devil Survivor Hell even in SMT2 Law is arguably ok
>>730523834>>730525047>>730526638>Communism specifically is just a retarded utopia view that doesn't understand that simple reality, just like you aren't meant to wholeheartedly agree with what Law is like and instead just agree with the overall concept.A little funny that you say "retarded utopia view" because communism operates under the principle of the literal utopia.That is training and raising a society that is intellectually and culturally educated to the point where government and currency aren't necesary because everyone just contributes and works for the society without the need for trade of any sorts.Like yes it sounds like a retarded utopia because the endgame IS very much that. A good game that backs and forths with this is Mother 3, where in the beginning you see very much a utopian society without a clear leader, however you also see why it doesn't work. This kind of society would be vulnerable to violent and exploitative foreign forces.
>>730526480>call yourself communist>the opposing side are the actual blue collar laborers
>>730525116I would say that SMT is more of an allegory for the Gnostic/Jewish God than it is the Christian one, hence the use of Kaballaistic figures like Metatron and Mastema, the use of "YHVH" (or Yahweh) as a reference to the God in question, and the generally oppressive, uncaring nature of Law. IIRC Persona 3 is the only SMT game to feature something based on Christ
>>730525145it was kino
>>730508405Because both Law and Chaos are headed by extremists who don't give a shit about humans.>vaguely badThe only difference is that YHVH wants to put humans into neat little boxes and Lucifer wants everyone in a pine box.
>>730527164Yes we just want to restrict the gun rights of blue collar laborers, not because we think they're fascists (we do) but it's really to protect them from the the real fascists. They don't have to worry though because we'll own the guns and our government totally won't be a controlling dictatorship like the last one.
>>730527118Not just becoming weak to outside forces, but it creates a vacuum for corruption inside the system without any safeguards as well. There's no perfect system for this stuff obviously, but communism preaches individualism and freedom while advocating for the exact opposite in practice. It can't exist without humans advancing to the point that we can actually be entirely selfless as a species and without the tribalism, but that's not ever going to happen as far as we can tell. Just like how in SMT the Law side often has to strip free will from the people to force them to act in a way that they view as proper.
>>730509345Unironically the best character in the original SMT V. If you paid attention to his backstory, it made sense why he turned out the way he did.
>>730509007>modern mediaI thought law was protrayed pretty favorably in SJ, 4, 4A and 5
It's not. Law is the only route that ends in a stable society. Yes, you have to make compromises and give up complete freedom. It's also tyrannical and the social structure is inflexible. But at least it's a coherent order with the least downside compared to the alternatives.Chaos always turns into a retarded Darwinist anarchist battle royale where you're incentivized to kill all opposition until someone strong enough is left that ends up establishing some form of Law anyway. So why not just sidestep all the bloodshed?Neutral is just fencesitting that solves nothing and is a massive cope with no clear vision for the world should be. "Uhhh humanity will just be sovereign and we'll figure it out on our own" is not a clear plan for the future. It's practically a soft form of nihilism that reestablishes the status quo and only delays when the next LNC cycle happens.Now, obviously the alignments in SMT are just extremely exaggerated versions of philosophical and spiritual forces that have influenced humanity throughout history. But if I was in the SMT universe and I had to choose, I would go with Law, 100%.
>>730526289Very few people, especially communists, do any research or reading. Marx derailed the whole movement and his whole family tree is nothing but bankers, jews and aristocracy, in addition to his entire bio being either highly implausible, to outrght impossible. He was not only a fraud, but agent provacateur for his rich family.Similar to Bernie being socialist in claim, but a billionaire in reality.
>>730526638>until it inevitably fails because there's no incentive for any individual to improve or be invested in their society whatsoeverOf course there is incentive when you making more food means you get more food.You are mistaking communism for what it was perverted into by banker jews, red fascism. As opposed to capitalism, which is just blue fascism.
>>730527794>but it creates a vacuum for corruption inside the system without any safeguards as well.kinda hard to say this because the idea is that you trained a society that culturally rejects corruption. That's what makes it, well, utopian. The shield communist leaders use IRL is that either previous communist leaders were corrupt and not true communism, that communism isn't complete yet and they must enforce it, or that yes we're communist we're perfect utopia and you dissenting makes you an enemy of the state and should be thrown to jail.What SMT, like many others, have pointed out is this contradiction. How can you have a perfect society when the raw trait of humanity is to be imperfect.Shiva in SMTV actually puts it best: Mortal beings are not fit to rule the world, because beings are impure and can only corrup nature. Although the solution to destroy the universe and letting nature recreate it from scratch is a bit too much out there.
>>730527923>Law is the only route that ends in a stable society.Anon, some of the Law endings has humans being turned into basically mindless faith batteries or the Angels enacting the World of STR to ensure their ideology is the only one. Even the most tame one with Tao is effectively just absolute authoritarianism wrapped in a hopeful teenager's dreams.
>>730528085Ok, who was the real OG communist theorist, and what book should I read by/about him?
>>730508405The character here is full right-wing. Of course tgey will portrait him as a villain.
>>730511469Just because a being is supposedly omniscient, omnipotent, and omnipresent, it doesn't make them omnibenevolent. YHVH is a selfish asshole that believes all life is beholden to him and that he is beyond reproach. Life under YHVH may be safe, but it's a logical fallacy to assume he has your best interests in mind. What is a king without subjects?
>>730508405Law and Chaos are both supposed to be bad and you just choose which is less bad according to your standards. Neutral is supposed to be "good" in the sense that you don't choose either bad options but you're really just a coward that delays the problem and tells people in the future to deal with it instead. SMT4 is probably the only time where it's just objectively the best outcome.
>>730521753give me a description of what it looks like under there
>>730528263What incentive is there to do more than the man next to you if at the end of the day you won't get rewarded for your effort, anon? Capitalism for all it's faults at least has incentives built in to encourage innovation and working hard.
>>730528301lowkey, nobody really. Like, the idea of the perfect society has existed since forever in multiple cultures since ancient times. Calling it "communism" was marx's thing.Here's the issue, man. "left" and "right" are complete and utter bullshit. The only reason why we began coining political ideals all the way back to the french revolution was literally in order to dissent the population from actually thinking about politics, by turning these into a game of taking sides while the actual real intellectuals discussed politics using these veils to control the masses.From there it has always been the same with labels. "Communism", "Capitalism", "Lefties", "Alt Right", nothing more than pretty labels to control people not willing to put in the brainwork as to how power should actually be enforced.Just read theory and form your own conclusions. If you want to go down that rabit hole, a good start is the book Utopia by Sir Thomas More so you can understand what communism is supposed to building towards.
>>730528375What are you talking about? He wants western (foreign) religion to rule over Tokyo because he's full of self-doubt and just decides it's better to delegate all thought and personal responsibility to a higher power he assumes is infallible (it's only right in his mind because he receives the acknowledgement he so desperately craves for once in his life). The opposite, the guy who represents Chaos, is far more conservative and nationalistic, being the Knowledge of the Japanese Prime Minister and believing that Japan belongs to the Japanese deities.
So where does SMT go from here? They've addressed that the mandala/duality cannot be overcome. And making the greater will show up in physical form to be a beatable boss would ruin the point.And why does 4chan want to access my microphone when I browse for an image?
>>730528301August Willich and Karl Schapper were much more on the right track before Karl was sent in, though you probably wont find much from them translated
>>730528375>>730528713Ichiro an Dazai are in the original V a play on the usual tropes of Chaos Heroes and Law Heroes in the series.Ichiro is a lawful person and Dazai becomes a chaotic person. However they ended up following the opposite bands because of their ideologies. Ichiro follows the prime minister because he blindly believes that he knows what's best for japan and is loyal to his nation to the bitter end.Dazai realizes that might makes right and only a true omnipotent power can keep the world in line, so we need an almighty, all seeing and all knowing god to rule humanity with an iron fist.It's a theme they also had in the first SMT IV, that at the end of the day Law and Chaos are two sides of the same coin. That's why in that game the Purgatorium is a demon domain and Lucifer's Castle is a cathedral.
>>730528697>a good start is the book Utopia by Sir Thomas More so you can understand what communism is supposed to building towards.Ok, adding it to the list
>>730528384>Just because a being is supposedly omniscient, omnipotent, and omnipresent,If YHVH were any of those things, Chaos wouldn't existIt's funny how Atlus doesn't seem to realize how the concept breaks down when you turn heaven and hell into two opposing factions that are at war with one another rather than how it exists in actual religion
>>730528297I never said that the society would be beneficial to everyone, just that it's the only route that directly leads to a stable, coherent society with a well defined order and hierarchy. The way Chaos is presented in the SMT games is that will to power and pure individualism is the end in and of itself, rather than just a tool used to establish a new order. Like I said before, Neutral is basically a big nothingburger that doesn't solve anything and has no clear vision of a new order. Chaos and Neutral are basically transitions between periods of different versions of Law, why do you think nearly every SMT game starts with the end of a world defined by Law?
>>730527493Please don't tell me you're going to imply that the Doorman is a Jesus figure.
>>730527923Wrong, Neutral is what you want if you are looking for a stable society. Law is essentially Brave New World. Smt 2 takes place after the neutral ending of 1 for instance and everyone is doing pretty well for themselves until YHVH and chaos starts to shit everything up.
>>730529139>If YHVH were any of those things, Chaos wouldn't existDid you play Apocalypse? They literally tell you why this is, in fact, the case.In fact, Lucifer's own little rebellion, that too is YHVH's orders. Even Lucifer mentions this when you fight him, that he never really was truly released of his duties as an angel.
>>730528396I's canon route is NeutralII could be anything because they all end somewhat similarlyIII's is freedom which in this case represents Chaos, with the three Reason endings being Law disguising itself as the traditional Law/Neutral/Chaos choices. In this case, the ending where you're locked out of fighting Kagutsuchi because you showed a lack of resolve in having to face others in order to fulfill your goals marks you as ideologically weak, and in this case, it can be seen as Neutral and a bad ending.IV is like I, and it has its bad Nothing ending which cuts the game short.V's Humanity ending is roughly equivalent with III's Neutral where it's a bad ending that cuts the game short, though it's more upbeat by saying humanity will ultimately prevail over the demons after a long struggle and much loss. Its True Humanity ending is the canon ending, and most people call it True Neutral because it's the same choice of destroying the throne, but you did a bunch of extra stuff so that it has a better outcome.
>>730529213No, I'm talking about the Savior Persona
Chaos and Law is a false dichotomy Chaos is the natural state of the world. It is the purest form of Order. Law is a rebellion against this natural Order for Man (or God) to enforce them own will.
>>730522181now i understand you cant summon demons in this it's just like Digital Devil Saga but for kids!
>>730529213Nta but ?????? Did you not realize that?????? He is a jesus allegory. 12 disciples, dying for humanitys sins, a judas figure, and Takaya being an antichrist figure even in appearance to be his rival. It's pretty on the nose.P3 was a christian game, p4 was Shintoism and p5 was gnosticism.
>>730529139>turn heaven and hell into two opposing factions that are at war with one anotherthey aren't though, they're opposing ideologies that recruit characters to further their causes.YHVH is extremely powerful but hides behind legions of angels and the holy veil for reasons explained in 4A.Chaos is the hydra with a hundred heads, any time a "stronger" person overtakes there's a hundred grinding to take their place because everyone below them is struggling and fighting too.
>>730528671>What incentive is there to do more than the man next to you if at the end of the day you won't get rewarded for your effort, anon?Under a real communism, he would though. Every person would be given a portion of what was made, not 'according to his need', that was one of the poisons inserted by Marx and other saboteurs, it would be given according to how much was produced.For a better comparison, think of your job paying you a percentage of the company's profit rather than a fixed wage. In real communism, every worker is a shareholder. It is in fact the best incentive to work and improve. Now scale that up to he national level, and everyone is paid a percentage of national gdp as well.
>>730529236What are you talking about, Neutral is literally atheism and the death of God. We are LIVING through Neutral right now and it's a world of poorly defined moral relativism that is working towards nihilistic civilizational suicide.
>>730529213Who literally dies for the sin of mankind's wish to just fucking end it all The fucker with "Messiah" as a ultimate PersonaTHE ONE WITH THE PERSONA THAT LITERALLY CARRIES A CROSS IN HIS BACK
I'm so tired of Law and Chaos. Personafags don't have to deal with thee tired tropes over and over again.
>SMT 1 LawWith the HERO in the team, they set off the 1000 Year Kingdom early on without the J*wishness that would had happen if HERO went Neutral.>SMT2 LawDestroy all the ((Angels)), fuck over Lucifer, reset the world that only the good hearted people live. >SMT 3 "Reason"Worst Law in the entire series.>SMT 4 LawTokyo is beyond saving and they're already making cattle humans for food.>SMT 5 LawEveryone got revive and everyone live out their life normally.>SMT 5 VVTao will tries to make everyone happy as possible.>SMT SJNo more demons roam around Earth and all the Corruption from Earth is gone>SMT SJ ReduxRemove aggression from the human nature. No more wars or any of that faggotry. Humanity is vulnerable to aliens or human that might be immune to the Song.Only SMT3 has the shittiest Law.
>>730529859I mean, we can talk about Reasons, but there's also a reason why SMT ditched it too
>>730529618I don't know about the other SMTs, but in 5, neutral seems like the best outcome for humanity. Tons of >Angles and >Dhar Manns are always going to take advantage of humanity. So, either humanity gets a buff to level the playing field, or the higher beings need to get shoahd.
>>730529460>12 disciples More like 12 fuckbuddies lmao. Unlike canonical Jesus, Doorlord has no idea what is his fate. He is surrounded by teammates far weaker than himself, who can't help him win against Nyx, so he pulls some bullshit Great Seal that will stay there as long as the metaphorical door stays closed. He manages to live after that, graduate and die silently like a bitch out of shame, his head on the steel cold legs of Aigis. Preferring to look out into the Abyss for all eternity rather than meet his faggot team again (even though he promised to be alive until then, that prick).
>>730529908Reasons are just as bad and just dressed up alignments.>B-but they're all law because YHVH said soThat just makes any choice meaningless in these games because they all fold in on each other.
>>730529618What you are describing is chaos dumbass. In fact contrary to what SMT says about YHVH, the whole point of Judaism is that people should be able to live their lives in the current imperfect world and use their free will to make it a better place, you know, making the lowest world holy.
>>730508405How come the law rep in this game was chaotic and the chaos rep was lawful
>>730529860Nocturne was 3 different flavors of law. Also I wish you people would at least look up how NINE handled law.
>>730530127>Unlike canonical Jesus, Doorlord has no idea what is his fate.The game starts off with a butterfly telling you that you have 1 year left to live and he doesn't even blink at the coffins because he knows his end is inevitable. The entire game is themed around time and it's obscenely hard to do a 100% social link playthrough specifically to make the player think "I wish I had more time"The rest of your post is simply retarded. You clearly did not play the game at all. Likely an smt only fanboy who calls persona shit without knowing why.
>>730508405>>730509345>AnceNgmi
>>730530367In his defense you also are privy of your character's own backstory most of the game. The game takes a while to tell you that you saw your family die to a monster and you got posessed by an incarnation of death.
>>730530167>>730529908Reasons are just three version of Laws. There no if and or buts about it.>>730530345And its done so poorly.>All the Reason rep are fucking retarded>Baldie wanted to kill you and threaten you every time you; why the fuck you want to team up with this retard>Neet retard treat you like shit, you did everything for him, and then at like a faggot when you kill him>The bitch that talk all crap about MUH STRONGEST while being a hypocrite about it. The most likely person you would side but still bad>all Reason Ending are just empty shit with nothing going on and lasted for 1 second
>>730529184>a stable, coherent society with a well defined order and hierarchy.But most Law endings don't have societies or societies specifically built around the Law rep, they just have absolute compliance to a higher power. If you're defining Chaos as pure individualism then you'd have to define Law as the opposite extreme of collectivism, but that's not really accurate since Law is broadly focused on a guiding force rather than a collective pursuit of a goal and Chaos isn't restricted solely to a world view wherein the strong rule over the weak. VV is a good example of this. Yoko does not adhere to Lucifer's concept of strength being the determining factor, she's actually aiming for a world where people are truly free from that concept specifically and yet she embodies his ideology more closely than most Chaos aligned characters. Likewise Tao would be the first to fight against YHVH's Law and the notion that people should be forced to comply with an individual's will, but her ideology is still cut from the same cloth and relies on selfishly stripping choices away from the people she's trying to protect for their benefit. The fact that you can just as easily flip these two characters and have them become believable alignment reps of the other side is a good example of how the alignments actually work.Law is not the default state in SMT either, that's what Neutral is and why it is a flawed choice in the first place. Not that it matters since all three alignments are just a cycle like you pointed out.
>>730530787Chaos is a form of Law too.
>>730508405the answer is that YVYH is a piece of shit in pretty much every single game, he's not benevolent and kind and cares about humanity
>>730529184>I never said that the society would be beneficial to everyone, just that it's the only route that directly leads to a stable, coherent society with a well defined order and hierarchy. The way Chaos is presented in the SMT games is that will to power and pure individualism is the end in and of itself, rather than just a tool used to establish a new order.The thing that they hit your head about Chaos is that if you're not the strongest, you're fucked and you're going to suck that demon's dick until everyone kill themselves. That is "freedom". The entire point of SMT 1 is that when demons start invading Earth, we seen how much shit it cause when they took over. >>730530839Fuck off Lucy you fucking whore.
>>730530367I played that dumb shit many times, just like I did Persona 4. It's all skin deep and I'm surprised there are autists reading this hard into this stuff that is simply there because it sounded cool to creators and fit within their vision at the time. Also it's not that hard to do the s. links, they're all short and simple - even more so than in P4. All you really need for "extra time" is clearing open Tartarus sections on as little trips as it takes, preferably in single runs (very hard in the beginning due to Tiredness mechanics).
>>730531051>I played that dumb shit many times,I don't believe you. You misunderstand very core parts of p3. You don't do that unless you haven't played it.
>>730530852Well that tracks, since the OT has him say fuck everyone except the jewsAnd he doesnt seem to like them too much either
Going Neutral takes balls in this series. You have to challenge both Heaven and Hell to survive.
>>730527118>This kind of society would be vulnerable to violent and exploitative foreign forces.To have a society that's educated and capable of working as a whole, not really. Because again we go back to everyone being armed and knowing how to defend themselves being the first steps.
>>730531051>All you really need for "extra time" is clearing open Tartarus sections on as little trips as it takes,Yeah you never played it lmao.You literally have to go to Tartarus some nights to avoid phone calls to keep your social links from reversing on a 100% run. Even in Reload which makes it easier you still have to prioritize some links over others to avoid fucking up.Nobody believes you. Now kindly stop being a fag and get back on topic.
>>730531279>post neutral>post one of the most retarded Stephen Clone that doesn't contribute, but hinder, NeutralfagIf you're going to post a Neutral rep from SJ, at least post a proper one that isn't a moronic idiot. That retard is the single reason why Law/Chaos Marine go to their own route rather than just stay with Arthur. God, I hate all this Gore circlejerk.
>>730531362>Some nights Oh right sorry for not memorizing the game down to the every day's events lmao, oh man. Yeah, do carry on.
>>730508405Because it is fake. Canonically YHVH is not really "God" but just a really powerful demon who wants to control humanity by any means necessary which pisses off the real god, "the Axiom" due to upsetting the natural order of things. When you align yourself with law you are essentially creating a dictatorship to a demonic false god that just wants to use you.
>>730511183My hero how does he do it
>>730528671>What incentive is there to do more than the man next to you if at the end of the day you won't get rewarded for your effort, anon?people do this for free now under capitalism though, it's just human naturesome of them don't even ask for any kind of recognition
>AxiomFuck off Stephen. Its the Great Will.
>>730522636Is there any way to play this now? I thought it was shut down.
>>730515901>>730515874>>730513560It is about the weird belief and Japanese conspiracy that the current Japanese people descend from the mythical tribes of Israel, and that the Imperial family are all Jewish, and that they have a secret intelligence group of spy wizards that use Kaballah.
>>730533245Look up SMT New Moon private server. It's alive and fairly active.
>>730533326>we wuz hebrews >:(>we wuz hebrews, japan :O
>>730528713>believing that Japan belongs to the Japanese deities.That's always been a baffling conclusion for me, because if they failed before why wouldn't they fail again?And knowing what they do about how Bethel's European associates behaved once they realized there was no longer an axe overhead for defying Law and could get their way outside of cooperating they immediately returned to expansionist tendencies, so HOW would giving every culture back its conquerors result in stability?No disrespect but if even just South America was placed back under theirs old world spiritual authorities with the transport and weapons they have presently; within the year you'd see scenes out of Berserk's eclipse.
>>730531904Yes, good people exist, but they are a minority and apathy to things outside of your immediate social group is the default. Obviously people may still work harder than their peers to fulfill a need or pursue things like art because they value the medium, but that's only true of the exceptional people who already are motivated to do that under any system. You can think of communism as a sort of larger welfare system in terms of how it affects human behaviour. The majority of people only work because they have to in order to survive, but certain systems incentivise people to thrive and that's when things are invented to fill niches in a free market to accommodate that. Even if you don't think just anyone can succeed under capitalism, the illusion of that possibility is still there as a driving factor. Whereas creating a welfare state that coddles them only stagnates the broader population into complacency, you need some sort of driving force or group identity to make those sorts of people work for the good of the many and that doesn't exist under communism. It isn't that the values behind working towards communism are immoral or evil, just that the system cannot really work in reality and results in something that is always bad when it is tried because of that.
>>730512845True neutral is the most badass ending though.
>>730534023>Yeswell since you agree don't bring it up in the future
it's been LawGOD hours for three games now thoughbeit (SJR, V, VV)
>>730534023Except this is a completely bogus argument because in the real world you don't actually get rewarded for working more/harder than others. Upward mobility is borderline impossible and anyone who convinces you into doing more than the bare minimum has basically scammed you.
>>730534465Each of the SMT beside 3 you mean.
>>730531938The Axiom and the Great Will are two parts that make up the universe:The Great Will creates and monitors the cycle, the avatar of the Great Will is the game's final boss whether it's YHVH, Lucifer, Or... The Axiom is the embodiment of humanity's ability to Decide and contextualize the world, the Messiah of each game is the Axiom's avatar.
>>730534689Yeah I am not falling for Stephen bullshit.
How do you respond?
>>730534615they were kinda dicks in 1
>>730534756NTA but they are separate otherwise they wouldn't have different names.
>>730534838Retard like Gotou force Law's hand. Law is happy to just let things go through naturally, but Gotou force Stephen to open up a portal that let demons roam the land. We saw what happen when Demon/Chaos took control and ruin Earth. The Nuke and the Flood was needed because its THAT bad letting demons taking control of everything.
>>730534881Man you don't even know a single thing about mythology if you think that.
Chaos is usually a 'good' end for the MC cause they're obviously the strongest fag in town by the ending, even if it sucks for whatever humans are left.
>>730534881Its Stephen being an arrogant fucker that cause the SMT mainline event to happen in the first place. I am not listening to that retard trying to gaslight me to calling the Great Will the "Axion".
>>730533552>>730533326>>730515874>>730513560Yes, the weird fucks involved with the SMT games, specially so the Raidou games, all entertain the weird Japanese conspiracy that the Japanese are among God's chosen people, AKA the true Jewish people.https://youtu.be/R51wzopPYJchttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nmGLMZwuboI used to think that most of the LAW stuff in their games was some sort of diss against Christianity or Foreign culture, in that typical nationalistic Japanese sentiment, but actually is just them sort of rebelling against their own government because they indeed think the Imperial Japanese family are ultra Jews or something.
>>730535287>I used to think that most of the LAW stuff in their games was some sort of diss against Christianity or Foreign culture, in that typical nationalistic Japanese sentiment, but actually is just them sort of rebelling against their own government because they indeed think the Imperial Japanese family are ultra Jews or something.That is the entire point of the SMT 2's law route and they're not shy about it. The Angels even act like them.
>>730508405>law = living under big brother aka God>Chaos = living trying to survive day to day>Neutral = livingI hope that cleared things up.
>>730531507Shut the fuck up bitch
>>730535287Why do they love this Barbara G. Walker's book so much?
>>730535143Do you even know that in Japanese the Axiom is called the Greater Will?
>>730535739RIP
>>730535287What the fuck I just thought the bird was cool and some company slapped an image of it as their brand or something.
>>730535880No, Japan literally have their own brand of CIA or M16 with Japanese Jewish wizards or some shit.
I'm a man of the law.
>>730536997Its against God's will to covet His angels.
>>730535843She died?
>>730535774That's incorrect innit? In Japanese Axiom's name is Great Reason
>>730540108Stop reading the fucking wiki.
>>730540159Nohttps://megatenwiki.com/wiki/AxiomAlso he's right.
>>730533326Its true.The world was colonized by the first masters of the sea and super empire, the Phoenicians, who later renamed themselves Hebrews or Jews This includes Japan
>>730508405law/order wants to stop entropy, it defies the natural orderchaos wants to accelerate entropy, this also defies the natural order but in a lesser wayneutrality accepts entropy for what it is
>>730540258MASAKADOOOOOOOOO
>>730508405>PortrayedLawfags are honest to some degree about wanting to control you while chaosfags preach about absolute freedom and anarchy but not the part where you get shot on the sidewalk as a cause of it, hence why the latter seems more appealing if you don't consider the consequencesOf course both suck in their own ways
>>730526497>and Satan is all like "I know how to fix this"In any other series this would've been a giant red flag for you to watch out for.
>>730541950Good thing the game set up how Satan and Lucy are not the same being.
>>730521019>despite promises of liberal co-existence and cooperation early on Lucifer often just flies off and says "not my problem." after you've done his dirty work.Because his purpose has never been to control what changes that's your job, he just makes sure it eventually happens rather than allow the world to perpetuate the same stale cycle.
I get what they are going for with Law vs Chaos but it gets boring choosing between shit options the 50th time. It's more interesting if there's a reasonable case for all the routes.That's why Devil Survivor 2 was the best.
>>730542454Literally every route in VV is reasonable and generally a good ending EXCEPT Neutral.
>>730541950It is, but it happens right away. Like, the whole law route does a 180° the moment you reach lucifer's castle.https://youtu.be/dxAcS1vVXsU?t=618
>>730542550They should have gone with Niwa's Neutral route: every shota and highschool boys get a female demon partner, as the Great Will intended.
>>730542550vengeance literally doesn't have a neutral route what are you talking about anon
>>730542905>I Lucifier care about my realm and the people on Earth>get fucked by Satan and you>YOU KNOW WHAT? FUCK YOU EVERYONE DIES>release cancerous giant world snake that destroy his realm, the Holy Land, and was about to destroy youLucifer is such a hypocritical crybaby. Dunking on that faggot is one of the peak of SMT2.
>>730525145It wasn't really bad, it just full edgelord but unironically.I just wish this series would have decent writing. The modern games are just kinda lame
>>730543003He probably doesn't know CoC was the original release.
>>730543003>>730543150V has two neutral ending and they're both gay.
>>730508405>Universe where gods are real>YHVH is real>Humanity, for the most part, prospers under the god of law>Lucifer brings and end to the world>Humans are hunted down by demons looking for their knowledge>angels want the law god back, and protect the last remands of humanity>NOOO! I WANT CHAOS, DEATH AND ANARCHY BECAUSE!.....because....BECAUSE I LEAN LEFT OKAY!?!
>hey this sucks, but I can fix it>hey I know my solution kinda sucks but it's better than other solution>obvious best solution is regarded as bad endingJust fuck all of you
>>730543249>both gayYou killed Aogami in one of them.
>>730508405SMTV is one of the most law aligned games in the series to the point the chaos ending is lawful compared most others. Dazai is just a chuuni and V’s characters have their arcs fastforwarded to be the alignment reps.
>>730543325The fact that the White thank you is a good enough ending for me.
no fusion cap on ng+ is fun>>730518843i'm so jelly...
>>730526497>>730542905>chaosfag betrayed me, how could this happen to me?>>730543109Best part about SMT2 was dunking on everyone.Too bad Aleph has now to suffer forever
>>730543695that's the funny part, he's the lawfag
>>730543695>Too bad Aleph has now to suffer foreverThat shit is never canon and just some headcanon of some nocturetards that want their game to connect to something.
>>730508405From the older games, Law is represented by YHVH while Chaos is represented by Lucifer. Both are foreign gods to Japan, so Law vs. Chaos is the struggle of two foreign powers with Japan caught in the middle, with Japan therefore represented by Neutral. Even as later games shuffled around the faction reps, they still mostly stick to Neutral representing humanity, which is caught in between two or more factions of warring gods.
>>730543556>Mastema and his harem
>>730529213>Ultimate persona is called MessiahHmmmm
>>730543732ah right, my head just went to Luci = chaos>>730543795Did you see the attached image?
>>730543848See, i used to think it was like that before but apparently the devs think the Japanese are the true Jewish people, that the Imperial Family directly descend from the Lost Tribes of Israel, and that Shinto is the correct version of Christianity.
Will I be able to do Vengence in New Game plus? I don’t want to grind again
>>730508405Chaos is literally always the good option. Nootral is the "just ignore the problems lmao" option that bites you in the ass later.
>>730543848>, with Japan therefore represented by NeutralThen why is Japan's representative some chinese god that almost got you kill, has you to kill your friends, then just shrug when the Neutral Ending happen?
>>730508405Because kikes are evil and Jews are the real demons
SEX with demon women
>>730543848>Law is represented by YHVH while Chaos is represented by Lucifer.this is very much not true
>>730544349Yes there is a New Game + that carries over your stuff. There is also Godborn Mode, which is NG+ but everyone is max level, but you also have access to buy Stat boost
>>730543848Japanese religion is chaos-aligned though. Chaos = the old gods, nature, paganism, polytheism. It's not just about Lucifer.
>>730544520bless the devs for letting me have both a cute girl and some sort of skeleton warrior in party for the entire game, only changing them when i upgrade to a new cute girl or bone lord.
>>730544520Preferably the dog and cat variety
>>730544873In every game I always fill my party with sex, with skeletons, and with Jacks. And it always goes well.
>>730543321Law is SlaveryChaos is AnarchyNeutral is Freedom
>>730508405Humanity isn't in servitude to a higher being in neutral so it's considered the real good route
>>730545065In V, law is Imperialism vs chaos Utilitarianism vs neutral Anarchy
>>730508405The extremists are bad because that's the way it works in real life as well.
>>730546181>>730531507
I've never done a Law route in any game and I never will
>>730508405Chaos is pretty unambiguously evil most of the time. Literally the only major difference in a large amount of games is Lucifer actually being charming and knows to present himself well. Besides, the entire point of SMT 1 is "Chaos and Law bad, Neutral good". Series never really moved on from them.
>>730544475Isn't he the founder of the taoist movement?
>>730531507sorry bro but gore gets to be the face of neutral because he got that shit on
>>730542454Honestly I feel 1 did a better job with it.
>>730531507I remember being so fucking confused the first time I played this game because I named the MC Arthur and was wondering if there were some plot reason it shared the same name as the protagonist. What are the fucking odds man, reminds of when I named Isaac "Kyle" in Golden Sun and thought that the character's father is just meant to match your character's name.
>talk to her in the demon haunt>”I would never be with a horse!”?????
Reminder: All demon girls are harlots.Neutral heroines are for you.
>>730547297>meanwhile 2 out of the 6 mainline protags are demon fuckers
SMT unironically samsarapilled me
>>730547163>Due to an enchantment cast by Oberon's servant Puck, Titania magically falls in love with a "rude mechanical" (a labourer), Nick Bottom the weaver, who has been given the head of a donkey by Puck, who feels it is better suited to his character. While under the spell, Titania loses the powerful attributes she previously held and becomes fawning instead.
>>730547552You must escape the cycle. Release yourself from the political chatter on all sides. You must find a new way forward. A secret 3rd way.
>>730547562Bro we don’t need all this lore we can plainly see she’s white
>>730508405Law = being a cuck to noble liesChaos = being controlled opposition to the noble lie, reinforcing their worldviewNeutral = you're all faggots, I don't believe any of it and won't reinforce your worldview. Basically everything outside of neutral is Abrahamic infighting and neutral is flipping the table. Few understand this greenpill.
>>730547707I understand, mein anon...
>>730547909It do be like that.
>>730514127True Neutral is a miserable little excuse for an ending because in exchange for agreeing with a murderous asshole the game perpetually tries to gaslight you into believing is actually a merciful saint who is just really bad at communicating with people, it puts you in a cuck chair for all eternity without even the wonder of godhood as compensation.I like how Vengeance just finally fucking gave up on trying to defend Ronaldo 2.0 and had the man himself admit he's a piece of shit.
Scam me Mastema-sama
>>730512845I do like Law in DS1>God is the might and all powerful... but maybe if we say we're sorry we can try and get him to not to go old testament on us.
>>730525145Funny, my principle objection to Apocalypse is that it's blind to it's own hypocrisy. Yeah Dagda, give the god-killer a brainwashed broodmare (optionally male) and Flynn as his rabid attack dog, that sounds like a fucking great way to preserve the new God's empathy. It would actually be a fine ending if it was more on the nose about acknowledging ultimately that Dagda is as much of a manipulator as the gods he opposes and that Nanashi is being set up to become as much of a bastard as YHWH was, but it's all just kind of muddle to the point where it's hard to take as anything but at face value. Also there should've been an option to side with the Axiom. Unironically a less awful ending than the rancid dogshit that is Bonds.Although what REALLY grinds my gears is the fact that after killing everything else, the game forces you to just fucking let the Goddess of Tokyo run away and summon more Godslayers to kill you for some reason. What the fuck? WHY does Nanashi spare some random loli when depending on his choices, he is potentially willing to resurrect his own fucking sister as a slave-wife that exists solely to sing his praises and bear his children?
>>730526074>that ending were you get to pick one of the girls to be your sex slave.. I'm sorry, new Eve.
>>730548320Is YHVH a different guy in DH1? He and the angels are unusually reasonable in the law route there.
I liked in DeSu2 how it wasn't between law and Chaos but other concepts. Maybe it really doesn't change a whole lot but it's something. Fuck Ronaldo.
>playing for the first time>get to battle with Abdiel>get her down to 10% health>she crits me three times in a row and kills meGoddamn this has to be intentionally programmed
>>730548539>You can also pick Navarre, Gaston or HallelujahNanashi is a fucking freak by the end, which I guess makes sense given at that point he's egotistical enough to destroy and rebuild reality>>730548650I don't think DS1 ever confirms or denies anything about God. They keep him very mysterious while noting he's the one who seems to have personally cursed Cain and set up Abel to inherit the King of Bel's power, although based on how Brahman just refused to fucking respond to the archangels in Digital Devil Saga I...think that's tentative evidence in FAVOR of it being YHWH? Metatron was still willing to come down and fight in the Chaos endings.DS2 makes things even more confusing by kinda-sorta implying Er Rai, the new incumbent of the giant cosmic computer, might be him too. Although it's more likely DS2 is just about completely unrelated aliens.
>>730548650YHVH is always a different guy in most games. He is still kind of a arrogant dick, but he has very clear terms that he sticks to and aren't entirely unreasonable given the stakes. He is also very accepting of your choices.
>>730508405Everyone would love LAW more if it's not always middle eastern shit, norse god and hindu god deserve better
>>730548680Agree. Then again, Nocturne kind of tried that as well to less success.
>>730526074It really does feel like the entire game is a setup for the moment where you kill your friends.
>>730549184Oh shit, Kash Patel uses /v/.
>>730549184Would love a full Norse or Greek myth themed game in general. Would be cool to get different Law and Chaos representatives. Like Law being Zeus or Loki being Chaos.
>>730508405gnosticism
>>730549328Law = ApolloChaos = DionysusNeutral = AthenaMake it happen, Fatlus.
>>730543321it "prospered" under every other god tooit's not my fault your gaylord cheated the system and tried to yoink eternal reignhe could have just had his time like everyone else, he and the gods of his lineage who inherited that eternal power and refused to surrender it or reinstate the original system deserve to get bitchslapped i'm sorry>>730543531dazai is literally a might makes right faggot, except he says might means you get to dish out whatever 'justice' you feel likehow is that any different from chaos's the strong do as they please? answer; it isn'the deserved to have his ass killed, he killed others with no remorse, and when you kill his ass he says you're in the right cause you're strongershit character honestly, at least you can respect his angel much more than him
>>730508405Chaossisters...why does Atlus treat Law as the cool alignment now??
>>730550456>Doesn't cure Acne>Cool
>>730547909"i want to protect humans from the demons">murders a bunch of humans to stop the demons using their magatsuhi cause it would be inconvenientthe angel and the demon are the same thing, they primarily care about themselves and do not give a fuck about humans other than how they benefit them>nooo i just murdered you to protect youshut the fuck up man, fucking law gobblers
>>730547707Nice try neutral fag.
>>730550613>funniest chatbot
>>730548117nuwa is the cutest, so you side with nuwashe's the only one who cares about humans too, the single demon willing to die in order to protect humans and let them prospereveryone else would absolutely slaughter a billion humans just to avoid minor inconveniencenuwa wins, nuwa sex
>>730550456Chaos was never cool>SMT 1 Chaos Rep is a bullied school shooter that stoles one of your demons, suck a demon's dick for reputation, and then kill himself thinking he is the best>SMT 2 Chaos Rep murder your waifu, and he get brainwashed into being someone else's lover>SMT 3 is just you being a playtoy for Lucifer and you suck his dick for all eternanity>SMT 4 is catfishing>SMT 5 is a deranged siscon that couldn't go through and base on Bino's expression, is the worse outcome>SMT VV is from r/fuckcars>SMT SJ is a diaperfag that cause all the problem
>>730551052You keep saying this every time you get the chance but I'm not sure why. Never once is it implied you HAVE to do what he says. For fucks sake he's all about freedom. In smt5 you can bring demi fiend into the fight to kill Lucifer.
>>730508405Law = Stability in ChaosChaos = Evolution
>>730550880>true neutral is nuwa sexImagine thinking that when the entire ending is about the MC losing Aogami. Nuwa immediately fucks off entirely never to be seen again. It wasn't about her at all.
Law = WhiteNeutral = BrownChaos = Black
>>730551475Wrong.
>>730544520>SEX with demon KIDSFixed it for you.
>>730551052>Chaos Rep murder your waifu, and he get brainwashed into being someone else's loverthat's not the chaos rep. SMT2 doesn't have a law hero or a chaos hero the same way SMT1 does.What the plot of SMT2 is trying to do with the "heroes" is trying to recreate the prophesy in revelations. Daleth serves the role of the antichrist, that is the guy who proclaims to be the messiah who is bound to be defeated by the real one
>>730551780Yeah they want to go full Batman Beyond/Create a new batman but not only the trigger wasn't blown, everyone involve with that project got killed.> law heroThat Zayin/Satan in all his glory. SMT2 is a Law SMT.
>Law WorldFull Protection.Everybody know, what you did with that Moh Shuvuu on that Island, but the evidence, the files just got redacted
>>730552150>esl
>>730550880ka nama kaa lajerama
>>730551780I see Satan and Lucifer as the Law/Chaos "heroes" of SMT2
Because just like real life christian nationalism, Law betrays an absolute hatred of the human race as it is and most people aren't into that.
>>730552753Shut the fuck up retard
>>730552901Do you ever look at all these images you have saved and feel any kind of uncleanliness or self-hatred? you should
Which games have the best law arguments?
>>730552067>That Zayin/Satan in all his glory. SMT2 is a Law SMT.welll, he's not very lawful in SMT2.Like he's the one who makes the coup against the center and emancipates the factory.
>>730518843That would just be masturbation innit
>>730508405Wait so bro gets to tap this? Or is it masturbation?
>>730548418It wouldnt fix all the problems but everytime I think about it I question why they didnt have Toki actually follow through with her "Ill follow you no matter what you pick" when you pick massacre. Yeah, you can argue regardless of her stance Nanashi needed to kill her anyway but then just have her go without a fight, get rid of the choice for a goddess and make it always Toki because she's the only one who doesnt need full brainwashing to fill the role.>>730549043Not only can you pick Navarre, he doesnt even get revived as the Navarre (Human) that he was in IV, he gets revived as the Navarre (Ghost) he's been the whole game
>>730552682the thing is that Lucifer doesn't reveals himself as a force until the very tail end of the game and similarly it's not until he's a roadbloack that Satan show up. hard to call them heroes when they have minimal impact to your character and his story.Can't SMT2 do something different? It's the bloody second game in the series as we know it, it doesn't need to be chained to the same archetypes that the rest of the games do.
>>730553184And yet every Nahobino pair in the game was fucking anyway. All of them. Well Lahmu couldn't get Sahori on his side but he did forcibly vore her so there is that.
>>730553131SMT 2. One could argue SJ Redux Law route as Humanity has fallen and SJ Redux Law tries to address this problem head on. SMT VV can also be view with being Law Favored. Funny how both Redux and VV have good Law route due to having a certain trust worthy angel in charge.>>730553160The current power weren't being Lawful and deliberately sending demons out to kill their own citizens. They were ((Them)) that got rebelled and replace with Christianity.
>>730553314I wanted tentacle girl
>>730553470So did Lahmu.
>>730508405Because it's a fedora tipping series. DDS: MT writer is always whining on Twitter how muh evul Christianity replaced their primitive Emperor worship.
First and III didn’t do this at allHell in III you even get the teacher back and she thanks you
>>730553570The politics of the old SMT writers and artists is all over the place currently. Even the original author of DDS. You can't really pin point their ideology at all. Which is fine because it makes for more varied writing from a artistic standpoint. All these people already left Atlus long ago though.
>>730553570Considering christcucks are the reason why most first world nations are filled with brownoids I'd say he has a point.
>*teleports behind u*>"Diversity isn't an answer, it's chaos."How do you respond without sounding upset?
>>730553007Do you ever look at yourself in the mirror and feel any kind of uncleanliness or self-hatred? you should
>>730553861>I...uh...are you sure you're the bad guy?
>>730553857jewish claws typed this post
>>730554024Jews love Christfags, retard. They're the goodest little goys for them outside of pajeets.
I like what they did with SMT4 where neutral had two endings, one where you say fuck the world it should all be wiped clean, and one where you work extremely hard to deny both law and chaos to find a 3rd path even when they would be easier to choose.
>>730554193White is not neutral.
>>730554164Those are Evangelicals, who are 90% retarded boomers. Real Christians know of Revelation 3:9.
>>730508405because too much order is bad, have you not seen the insanity of justice fags? Society itself was hurdling towards a sanitized future until the great cheeto took office and now theres absolute chaos happening because the "Good Boys" hate bad things and instability to thier way of life.
>>730526989Great Will is all powerful and eternally expanding into other worlds to accumulate Law routes, YHWH in SMT is just an uber-LAW manifestation of the great will
>>730554423GW is the uber law manifestation. You have it mixed up.
>>730528816greater will lore in SMT Nocturne Maniax has each SMT game being a broader game of the Greater Will expanding the multiverse endlessly
>>730554532I gave up on SMT after Kaneko left, so you could be right. but YWWH used to be the uber-law manifestation of humanity's need for law.
>>730522636I miss ReIMAGINE
>>730508405Law is conformity and authority worship to the point of self-destruction. It so often being protrayed so negatively is especially punk for a Japanese media product.Chaos is anti-establishment and anarchic, but also adheres to the idea of another sort of hierarchy, that being the rule of the strong. This is not inherently better than Law or the current world order that both aim to supplant.Neutral is saying fuck you to both extremes and often turning down the power of the supernatural to boot, and when it's not doing the latter it's respecting traditional Japanese belief.
>>730554663The Great Will is explained in the most detail in Nocturne Maniax and then SMTVV. It's the highest form of law and while some form of YHVH exists it's considered a false god even by the GW's standards. Its cycle is so cemented in the structure of all worlds connected in Amala that Lucifer couldn't beat it after launching a full scale attack with Demi as his demon general. So he concocted a plan to use the cycle against itself in V by making the protag a permanent, eternal ruler in his own world so that would basically freeze the cycle in place in his world. Kind of like his cope for not being able to defeat it entirely. Satan, after beating him in VV, will say that your actions don't disrupt the GW's order all that much but it did send a message that it even the GW can be fucked with and that will have some kind of impact moving forward (probably going to be mentioned in SMT VI).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5uT7fas-WE
>>730551052SMT 1 Chaos Hero is pretty iconic. Early chud archetype. I like Jimenez a lot too.
>>730555275>So he concocted a plan to use the cycle against itself in V by making the protag a permanent, eternal ruler in his own world so that would basically freeze the cycle in place in his world. Kind of like his cope for not being able to defeat it entirely. Satan, after beating him in VV, will say that your actions don't disrupt the GW's order all that much but it did send a message that it even the GW can be fucked with and that will have some kind of impact moving forward (probably going to be mentioned in SMT VI).nu atlus doesn't really know what to do with SMT without Kaneko huh?
>>730555574The GW becoming this highly relevant force was a thing since Maniax, then IV pivoted from that and did all this unrelated Axiom shit (and we still don't know if the Axiom and GW are even related). Eventually the GW had to be explained in some context. Maniax dropped so much lore on it that pretty much went open ended for over 10 years. Yamai wrote Maniax and most of SMTV.
>>730555991I think the GW meta thing is a mistake to begin with and the only way to resolve it is either ending the series or endlessly coming up with excuses why new SMTs don't push the needle.
>>730508405SMTV neutral is fucking shit. Yes, I don't want demons lording over humans but I don't want them entirely gone either.
>>730508405Because both Law and Chaos are ridiculous extremes that aren't suitable for humanity.
>>730556081The one good thing they are doing is treating the GW as untouchable. Something so high and convoluted, you can't even grasp it, same as the Axiom. When we actually fight the GW in a boss fight then we've jumped the shark but I don't think we're going to go that far with it.
>>730508405Because of your main character armor, you are strong, you can fend for yourself and those you care for. Everyone else is better of slaved to law while they hold dear of what little they have.
>>730510727>Chaos is more aligned with their beliefs>Japanese media often promote bugman mentality
>>730556498shintoism/eastern folk religions arguably more chaos-y than LAW, yea.
>>730556498Bugman mentality mainly stems from it being an extremely capitalist society because it's always work first, and everything comes last. Japanese barely have time to cook, bathe and eat before bed and come home at 1am from no paid overtime for the "good of the company".
Give it to me straight will it ever be playable in English in our lifetimes?
>>730556960Believe in translator Tom.
>>730556415This post reads like all chaos heroes are incompetent.
>>730556906>>730556694Death Note's utopian plan for the future is people conforming harder rather than killing the Satanic pedophile elites.
>>730558971Cool it with the antisemitism.
>>730557101All Chaos heroes are ironically weak shit. Jimenez nearly party wiped to save Bugaboo.
>>730558971You should know that Japanese politics are very strange and religion is even more tied to it in the west. You can walk around in any major city and be verbally assaulted with christian church pamphlets that also coincide with political propaganda. And the strangest thing is, they target foreigners even more. Not for suppose but to grift money.
>>730559189>Not for supposegood morning saar
>>730559289Support. A typo is not esl.
>>730508405It's moorcock slop
mikado was cool
>>730509007The law top dogs are always fucking ass holes. Like I can’t remember a single instance where yhvh or someone like the demiurge wasn’t fucking everything for everyone (well maybe that guy at the end of persona 5 royal but still). On the other hand Lucifer can sometimes just want to chill or to achieve true freedom when he is not a total fucking asshole.
>>730559338Ah, so a phone-posting subhuman.
>>730559395The anon you're replying to clearly never played 1 where lawfags nuke Japan, followed by just indiscriminately killing everyone in a flood soon after.
>>730559395>On the other hand Lucifer can sometimes just want to chill or to achieve true freedom when he is not a total fucking asshole.Then you look at the ending and it's just mountains of corpses
>>730508405Persona 4 was Law goodMetaphor was Law goodbut you're right about the mobile spinoffs
>>730559534Persona has never been anything but neutral
>>730559395>Lucifer can sometimes just want to chill or to achieve true freedom when he is not a total fucking asshole.can you give me an instance? because someone like, say, Hikaru was rejoicing over a flaming city full of innocent people being devoured by demons.Like while she had a calm disposition I wouldn't call her "chill".
>>730508405neutral usually means humanity fighting for itself instead of submitting to a tyrannical higher power, or dying in endless conflict
>>730559585P5 is full chaos, the MC's persona is Satanael
>>730556960seems unlikely just because of all the different variations and routes but who knows, I wouldn't mind being able to play it for myself even though it looks kind of ass.
>>730559585Door-kun is Jesus, you dumb nigger.
>>730559831You need to think beyond aesthetics. The Phantom Thieves whole MO is literally brainwashing people into conformity.
>>730559919You need to think beyond aesthetics as well. There is nothing remotely law related about the message of P3.
>>730560025>kill communists such as that antichrist LARP faggot over thereYou're retarded.
>>730556164there's really no downside to the erasure of demons, law and chaos will always manifest through demons and demons will always try to influence the world in their favor. they will also contract with devil summoners who can learn of dangerous occult rituals that can end of the world. see Nocturne for the world ending rituals and SMT1 and 2 for the demonic influence stuff
>>730560128>kill communists such as that antichrist LARP faggot over thereWhat the fuck are you even saying?
>>730559585P3 is noochroll. The message is to not fear death but don't go searching for it.P4 is law. I don't need to explain why.P5 is chaos. Rebellion against authority.P6 will likely be indian themed for religion, neutral since it's the phlegmatic temperament, and be about wars (tribal, culture wars, conflict in general)
>>730560295If you didn't immediately realize I was talking about Takaya and his not-Antifa team you either didn't play the game, or you're a chatbot.
>>730560359Imagine consuming all your media with rightoid mental illness and being unable to see past it.
Ok, so chatbot.
>>730559941eh but it's also about toppling higher powers via might to create the world they think is proper
>>730560535>Ok, so chatbot.Demons actually.
>>730560682Yeah, I'm starting to subscribe to that theory.
>>730528297>Even the most tame one with Tao is effectively just absolute authoritarianism wrapped in a hopeful teenager's dreams.It's the opposite, the whole point is not denying anyone's dreams.
>>730560757If you think about it AI is actually just a demon and we've been feeding it more and more of our Magatsuhi through its misuse.
>>730560345>P5 is chaos. Rebellion against authority.That's shallow reasoning and you should reconsider. Think about P5's villains, authority is not the common line there, it's people abusing their positions of strength, which can be authority, but also comes in other forms. You have multiple palace rulers espousing Chaos ideology, and then you can look at what the PT state their main motive is and it's about protecting the weak from the strong. Anyone who's played SMT knows that's in direct opposition to what Chaos in SMT stands for.That's why P5 is neutral, because the PT are directly against Chaos ideology, and they're also directly against Law ideology, they fight against anyone abusing their strength and status, whether it be law or chaos.>>730560536They don't do that. The ending is literally about incremental reform, not toppling society.
>>730560890DeSu was (((soft disclosure))) about the internet.
>>730560890we are poised to literally feed it the world's entire energy production if all the planned datacenters go up
>>730547909This sort of thing is why I didn't feel much sympathy whenever these two bit it, I don't give a shit about his sob story. He's actively useless at best and a nuisance at worst.
>>730561087GET THORMAN ON THE LINE.
>>730560974>You have multiple palace rulers espousing Chaos ideology,Chaos ideology isn't immorality. Even in your image you have a Law line. The "natural ORDER". Strength is a Law reason in smt3 as well. Denying and breaking established order is chaos.
>>730559185>ironicallyno, their usual arc is trying to overcome their human weakness with chaos. in a way, both chaos and law are transhumanist
>>730561372>transhumanistA massive number of characters in smt are like this though. It's not just chaos. But that does circle back to law and chaos just being two sides of the same coin.
>P3/4/5 is Jojo Part 3/4/5>Metaphor is Jojo Part 7Is this why P6 is taking so long? Because all the good Jojo parts have been used and the remaining ones are garbage.
>>730561445law is more BORG-y, or mass brain washing, which is arguably worse than just a mean YHWH depiction
>>730561445I think part of being a chaos or law human is fully giving yourself up to one or the other, they cannot by definition be strong as a human. if they had the strength of humanity they'd be neutral, but in their weakness they either seek power through God, or through the raw strength of demonkind. SMT1 is the most blatant with this, with Lawboy being killed and reborn under god's thumb, and chaosbaby stealing a demon and fusing with it to get his power.
>>730561627I feel like SJ was the only game with law brainwashing. In most of the games, especially 1 and 2, law expects you to follow the flock by choice, rather than being forced. It's either you get it and become part of the millennium kingdom naturally or you aren't "pure" enough and get shoved in the flood water or in 2's case blown up by a snake.
>>730561310Don't get so hung up on the words, it's very much a chaos concept, which mainline itself reinforces.
>>730561310>>730561943Didn't post the full thing
>>730561943And once the strong is decided he creates order. In that screenshot you depict a man of law, of established order, and vigilantes (lawless heroes) take him down.You are far too hung up on the mistaken notion all persona games are neutral.
>>730562053>In that screenshot you depict a man of law, of established order, and vigilantes (lawless heroes) take him down.Nope. Kaneshiro is a criminal.
Clearly these are the same thing
>>730561627BORG is communism, commie-kun. Every accusation is a confession with you faggots.
>>730562261chaos is anti communist tho
>>730562261do you think communism is like, a hive mind?
>>730562139All the antagonists are criminals. Corrupt authority. So is YHVH, the god of law. Good and bad are not factored into law and chaos dictation.
>>730562001literally every alignment thinks their way is the "natural order">the order of bowing to god>the order of existing outside of the influence of both demon and god>the order of might makes right
>>730562463Specifically one caused by jewish brainwashing.
>>730562470actually chaos is bad>>730562375and communism is bad which means it's chaos
>>730562530must be tough being so stupid
>>730562470>Good and bad are not factored into law and chaos dictation.Exactly. The PT go against whoever they think are bad, whether they are law or chaos
>>730562530You should know that communists constantly argue over what communism actually is. It's not some cult it's a bunch of books written by people arguing with each other for decades.
>>730562594I accept your concession.
>>730562639>You should know that communists constantly lie about what communism actually is.ftfy
>>730562612And specifically targeted law aligned antagonists. People who are corrupt with their authority and hide behind the virtues of law to get away with it. The phantom thieves are chaos, removing the authority figure from their position and offering no solution. They simply take away the (bad) law.
>>730562691They would need to agree on what it is to even lie about it first.
>>730562643desperate for a 4chan victory eh champ? stupid AND desperate. what a combo
>>730562737Well, the jews at the top all agree it's a power acquisition strategy for themselves. The useful idiots can argue themselves to death.
>>730562817Israel benefits entirely from capitalism and imperialism though if you're implying they are pushing for a communist society for some reason.
>>730561372They also weak shit after losing their humanity at least compared to the MC at that point of the story. I'm just saying how they are somehow weaker than their Law counterparts.
>>730562907It's a two-pronged attack, but communism is more the seedy underbelly like USAIDS and BLM.
>>730562907No idea what you guys are arguing about but the entire purpose of israel pushing communism in OTHER countries is to destabilize them. Cultural communism most of all keeps people fighting amongst themselvesm
>>730562917>everyone's weak against MCyea it's a jrpg
>>730508405The Law and Chaos divide is a spook.
>>730562998That's exactly what we're arguing, and you're 100% correct.
>decent discussion of SMT>MUH COMMUNISM AND JEWS>thread immediately turns into a /pol/circlejerkgod moot inventing /pol/ after nuking you faggots was and always will be the biggest mistake this webzone has ever seen
>>730563182You lost. /v/ will never stop supporting Trump and Israel.
>>730563182You lost. TKD.
>>730562998Do you realize how easy it is to make marginalized groups fight among themselves over inane shit though? Culture war in itself is pointless.
>>730563336>Do you realize how easy it is to make marginalized groups fight among themselves over inane shit though?Yeah, that's how you make color revolutions.
>>730563248>>730563285>your parents when they hear the shotgun from their basement
>>730562991They and anyone else looking to maintain power undermine any movement and make it look stupid over time. And I mean any movement regardless of where you believe you stand. And it's not hard because people will hyper fixate on language and pointless political displays that are easily mocked. It's as easy as just not taking the bait really. But people rarely ignore any bait.
>>730520386Modern Jews aren't the ancient Jews/Hebrews, much like modern Christians are nowhere near the ancient Christians (and hasn't been for a millenia now). Hope that helps.
>>730563336People still believe in Commie bullshit like class solidarity.
>>730556960You better hope shit like AI translating get good enough in our lifetime to do it ourselves, or some autist actually will care enough to carry it out. The SNES SMTs only got translations because they were probably easy enough to romhack, edit and translate.
>>730563461That's neat, bot-kun.
>>730563490They believe it in because it would work if laborers would actually work together but it's rarely been done without being fucked up for whatever reason historically. People can't even fight for unions right and that's like the bare minimum.
>>730563591Would a bot post this?
>>730556960Everyone that tries this says the gameplay is terribleSo not likely
>>730563182Anon, you're going to have to come to terms that SMT is always going to be tied to politics in the west and in Japan. Also any thread I made about gameplay for smt died in 10 posts over the week.
Chaosfaggots never recovered from the kino SMT2 law ending.
>>730563605every system would work if people worked together and were nice to each other and not greedy and
>>730508405God is always good, so Law is always the correct answer.
>>730563721there is no reason to ever cry about communist jewish conspiracies in regards to SMT alignments anon. /pol/tards are just mad there was an on subject thread so they came to derail it with the singular thing they ever talk about
>>730563605>They believe it in because it would work if people act contraire to observable reality.
>>730563874This is the only correct opinoin.
>>730563908
>>730563874>god is always good>gets evaporated by a space laser seconds later
>>730563773I that the ending where Tokyo gets nuked or wait that was 1 right, chaos in 2 was where Lucy comes out his disguise and tells you you need to kill YHVH and them dooms the world after you do right.
>>730561310>The "natural ORDER"Yes, a natural order, not an enforced order, so not law.
>>730563784Capitalism serves the greedy though. The problem is that it's just not sustainable over time. And I'll tell you communism isn't a solution either and that's mainly because it's never been really tried. You know the idea that currency is no longer needed and all that. It's hard to say something is the solution when you've never really seen it in practice.
>>730564113>and that's mainly because it's never been really tried.This is satire, right?
>>730564048It is literally being enforced by people. If you want to be pedantic you need to have an argument based on logic. Both in the case of Kaneshiro and the law of strength in smt3's reason, or any smt Law alignment enforced by strength, it is an individual enforcing it.
>>730564201It's not because anything close to communism means being cut off from outside sources entirely, being self sufficient, and retiring currency completely. If you think China and Russia do that you're wrong.
Oh, you're the same bot from before.
>>730564403>just calls anything he doesn't want to reply to a bot
>>730564201He's not wrong but the modern implementations of it are absolute dogshit because it almost (99% of the time) falls to corruption or some dictator bullshit the same can happen with capitalist ones but theres checks in place for it considering people will actually have a way to overthrow a dictatorship or at least fight back. That being said, running a country is probably harder than it looks esp if you have a moron at the wheel who gave himself power.
>>730564478>arguing with a communist>thinking they're above the level of a chatbot
>>730564113Communism has been tried many times, it's never been achieved because it requires people to work together and be nice to each other and not greedy and
>>730564532It's not about dictators. It's about self sufficiency.
>>730564703It's never been achieved because the kikes didn't find the perfect recipe yet. They seem to have found it in unlimited racial tension.
AI will bring about a post-scarcity world where we can build true communismin two more weeks
>>730535287it's just that occultism related things are definitively SMT related things.you can go on twitter and talk to the original author about his books, it's pretty interesting stuff.
>>730564703And you're right it's impossible. Because a country can't run without depending on other countries for resources and other countries wanting that country for their resources. Any attempt is squashed due to outside interference or need for trade time and time again.
>>730535287>I used to think that most of the LAW stuff in their games was some sort of diss against Christianity or Foreign cultureThere's definitely some element of that though, especially in SMT 1 with Law's plan having America nuke Japan into oblivion and Yukio Mishima being a Chaos leader
>>730565778It exists in the other games it's just gotten much more subtle since 1.
