*jobs*
Can you imagine if BioWare had the balls to make it so that no matter what you do the Reapers just win
disgusting LE skybox
Making them the big bad in 2 and 3 really ruined the series.
>>730564151No I think their dogshit writing did that.
>>730563975>Sovereign is creepy and menacing af in the first one>gives you that immense feeling of dread and cosmic horror even, sounds like you are completely fucked>turns out, hes just some bitchboy, one of many>and despite that theres thousands of them. their whole "race" is basically just a bunch glorified space ships, some of them job to a single guy on foot with an rpg launcherkeklmao even
>>730564104I can imagine all the tears, that's for sure
It'd be great if a competent developer got the licence for Mass Effect and remade the trilogy with Drew Karpyshyn's full vision realised. The Mass Effect trilogy is wonderful and one of the great accomplishments in gaming, but it has some serious issues narratively.
>>730564104I unironically think the refusal ending in Mass Effect 3 is the best one.
>>730564474>Just some bitch boy>Literally solos several fleets at onceThe only thing, ONLY THING, that stopped him was Shephard showing up at just the right time to use a macguffin that temporarily stunned Sovereign. Were it not for that, it would've completely destroyed the Citadel defense fleet, the human fleet that came to assist, and summon the rest of the Reapers into the galaxy.
>>730563975A plot about mistery tentacles ruling the Universe is the biggest shit i have ever seen in my life.
>>730564631doesnt matter, first time you talk to him, you get the sense hes some God-tier entity, reshaping and destroying whole galaxies, turns out, hes just a slightly stronger battleship
>>730564389
>>730564104They never thought the trilogy through, 2 was a side quest and 3 sucked.
>>730564793It gets worse in 3 because star child essentially implies the Reapers are not even sentient and are just his personal drones. The Geth are more autonomous than the Reapers.
>>730564793You completely ignored what I said, he wasn't just slightly stronger than a battleship, with a single shot he destroyed a Turian dreadnaught and was systematically dismantling the rest of the defense fleet in orbit. ME plot contrivance is the only thing that turned this nigh unstoppable god machine of death and destruction...by having it personally take over the body of a corpse to act as a 2nd phase boss fight. That's the retarded part.
>>730564997>star child essentially implies the Reapers are not even sentientstar child IS a repaer
>>730564239Yeah, the reapers being the big bad is dogshit writing, I agree.
>>730565036i mean yeah, okay, its a VERY strong ship, but hes just one of many, and not the galacxy-ending God you get the impression it isAnd as you said, them changing the power levels as it first them just cant make you take them seriously, considering you kill another one literally with a hand weapon while jumping around on a rock in the next gameIts Alien vs Aliens all over again, the xenomorph went from that utterly terrifying monster in the first movie to a bunch of retarded bugs getting slaughtered by the hundreds in the second, removing all sense of fear from them
>>730565036Once a jobber always a jobber, bucko
There was no way it could be satisfying, they blew their load way too early.
>>730565109No, it created the Reapers to enact its final solution to the organic problem. Harbinger is the first Reaper and all subsequent Reapers used Harbinger's template. Star Child is a separate AI entity.
>>730564474That mission with the hammer of dawn thing in 3 was gay. Why did the need Shepard to target the giant spaceship, was tech that shit in the universe? Why could the ultimate reaper kill machine not kill a dude on an open plateau dodge rolling?
>>730565641This guy really likes biowares bullshit
>>730566051No, it's stupid. Star Child's existence outright undermines everything interesting about the Reapers. They basically become virtual intelligences because they just do what Star Child directs them to do. But Star Child is not a Reaper.>Star Child is a geth/krogan/quarian/human>no it isn't>omg u lik Bioware's bullshitStop that.
>>730566421>>730565109>>730565641wait, i thought the fucking ayy lmao squids from that shitty DLC actually built the reapers? havent played those games for more than a decade tho, so i dont remember much, especially from the shitshow that 3 was
Would’ve been better if the Reapers regularly culled the galaxy of advanced life because they didn’t want to draw the attention of even worse and more advanced aliens.
>>730564104dead space 3 did this and everyone hated it
>>730564793>you puny mortal cannot possibly comprehend my motives>the motives are just to kill organic life before it becomes too powerful
>>730566620No they created the star child and the star child created the reapers
>>730566620Basic outline is:>Leviathans are the first race to develop Mass Effect technology and they use it to enslave the galaxy (they have the indoctrination ability as part of their biology)>they use lesser races as slaves but find that over time, the slaves develop AI to assist them and this AI inevitably rebels and starts a destructive war which causes problems for the Leviathans>Leviathans create Star Child, an AI program, to investigate the problem and fix it so that organics won't be destroyed by AI anymore>Star Child determines the problem is actually organics themselves as they will always create AI eventually and this AI will destroy them>Star Child's solution is to create the Reapers in which the essence of organic species can be preserved forever>Harbinger is created as the first Reaper based upon the Leviathan species and Star Child essentially eradicates the Leviathans>each cycle leads to more Reapers being created as a way to preserve organic life before AI destroys itIt's not terrible lore and it has some issues, but Bioware obviously had no idea what to do with it hence why 3 is so lacklustre and unsatisfying.
>>730566620you and me both, I thought that was their whole deal
>>730567298i thought the Star Child is basically just the "AI" that runs the reapers, so basically same shit, no?
Why is this weird retard defending bioware so hard?
>>730566939Hate doesn't mean it is the best option.Jews and Hitler are hated, too.
>>730568149what the fuck is this schizo phoneposter trying to say? Hitler??? We are talking about reapers ya goober.
>>730568339>Hate doesn't mean it isn't the best option.Something is wrong with my brain, these past few months. I am forgetting one or two words while typing. My apologies.What I meant to say is that Dead Space 3 had the better ending and Mass Effect would have ended better if instead of defeating the Reapers, current sentient species chose to either flee, play a longer game or appeal to the Leviathans.Current sentient life had no way to defeat the Reapers if the Protheans couldn't do it.
>>730563975Could've the reapers fixed Andromeda?
>>730569973what was wrong with andromeda
>>730570459what wasnt?
>>730564474Bioware writing is Blizzard tier, but it took people long enough to notice it for some reason
>>730569973I mean, if they show up and kill everyone? No. Because the Reapers supposedly all died 600 years ago. And if they didn't then no matter what Shepard did is pointless, because now you have an indefinite amount of Reapers out there policing other galaxies, and if they are all a few years away from the Milky Way, through conventional travel, it's a war of attrition. And even if the Milky Way recovers from the post Reaper War dark ages, it is only a matter of time until an overwhelming force of other Reapers pours in. Which basically ends the franchise.
>>730570712idk, I didn't play it
>>730573710almost no one did ..
>>730564857
>>730564104If I was shep, I would have helped the reapers.
>>730565036too bad 3 retconned all of that and made them stronger battleships when it depicted both the protheans and the current timeline races fighting back and stalling their advances in some areas and their conquest taking months/years, implying that there was some back and forth even with dozens/hundreds of reapers in the fight.
>>730564104Honestly, that would be better than what they wrote.
>hurr why aren't the video game enemies completely invincible and impossible to beat?what a retarded fucking complaint
>>730575402Protheans/Humans are clearly the master species of their respective cycles. Turians were practically fighting with high level sticks and stones.We're the ones who came in with carriers, nuclear powered fighters, omni gel, medigel, the IES stealth system...
>Rudimentary creatures of blood and flesh, you touch my mind, fumbling in ignorance, incapable of understanding.>There is a realm of existence so far beyond your own you cannot even imagine it. I am beyond your comprehension. I am Sovereign.
>>730564474they should've never had all the reapers invade in my opinion. it's creepier to imagine how the reaper invasion would go instead of seeing it happen, because it just ended up being a lame conventional war. the actual reaper invasion should've been stopped before it happened in ME3, and the player would've been left wondering what would've happened if they managed to arrive in the galaxy. all the fighting in ME3 should've been against geth and reaper foots soldiers. even if people wanted to fight against actual reapers, the reveal that the reapers just planned to land and shoot laser beams at cities did so much damage to their credibility that it's hard to replay the games.
what is the purpose of an advanced mechanical race taking the form of giant cuttlefish?
>>730576125they look like their fish daddy
>>730563975YASSS ZADDY
>>730576125space squids look cool, siple as
>>730575596holly reddit dialogue
>>730563975This series is so full of contrivances by the end. It honestly makes no sense to me that the Reapers are so insistent on immediately entering the galaxy. I mean, they do this every fifty-thousand fucking years. Surely they'd wait like fifty to seventy-five years instead of their equivalent of ten minutes, to plan some new entrance strategy and to make people not have the Citadel attack prevalent in their mind?
>>730565641>all subsequent Reapers used Harbinger's templateUntil they got bored of making squids and decided to build a human that one time and never again
>>730564474>Rudimentary creatures of flesh and blood. You touch my mind, fumbling in ignorance. Incapable of understanding.>There is a realm of existence so far beyond your own you cannot even imagine it. It felt good to be young and naive and optimistic that Bioware could deliver on the premise they had set up.
>>730580298Their goal is to preserve organic races and they know this is around the time when there's going to be a war between them and an AI race, which is true since quarians chimp out in 3. If they waited any longer they risk the AI of this cycle (Geth) killing an entire race before it could be preservedWhat's retarded is that they went after the fucking batarians first instead of the quarians with this information
>>730567310>>730567451>according to the lore the AI is the primary reason why the universe is locked in a cycle of destruction>people still glaze the geth and think it's viable to make peace with them (because muh legion)
>>730580298Its basically the same retarded reasoning as Thanos and its hacky writing >to save the galaxy/sentient races we must... LE KILL EVERYONE because maaybe, eventually, you see they will become too smart for their own good?
>>730564104It frankly wouldn't fit with the defiant tone 1 and 2 set, and doesn't gel with Shepard's character. There would have to be some sort of victory, but the way 3 does it is all too convenient and not pyrrhic enough. Maybe a form of the refusal ending, but done in a way where it's the plan for the start to make sure the next cycle was prepared. Then you could have the future victory, but not have Shephard look like he chooses that course on impulse. 2 should've been the game where that plan was formulated, so 3 wouldn't have to pull a dues-ex machina out of its Marshole
>>730563975Why did I never see this until now
>>730568598>le subversion for the sake of itoh you're just subhuman
>>730582815>subversion is when the galactic threat that was presented as undefeatable is actually undefeatableME3 letting you defeat the reapers was the subversion
>>730574923Which is effectively no one.But hey, that's the kick off point for our next game. Aren't you excited?
>>730575551HOW DARE SHE WEAR WHAT SHE WORE!Femshep getting stoned to death, burned to death, flayed to death, would be too kind to the bottomless depths of horror that she deserves.
>>730575596Gayest dialogue in the entire trilogy. And you can get buttfucked by STEEEEEVE! in the trilogy.
>>730578460>siple
>>730581828There is the groundwork for a refusal ending done right throughout the series. We see so much corruption, stagnation, and destruction caused by the advancement of the primary civilisations. One could conclude that the cycle process is working by stopping organic life from stripping the universe bare, and that it needs tended to like a garden.But it should only be one possible ending, with the destroy ending also available, and the control ending for dumbass renegade cerberus LARPers. And you'd need to do more to set up the idea. Have some pro-cycle group present through 2 and 3. Show us Jaavik and expose that the Protheans weren't enlightened and pure space elders in 2 and make it central to the plot.
>>730580634It's not just that. Under that premise, it's about as logical as a human addressing an ant. Even if you could, the ant wouldn't understand. Even if there is a universal translator, it has no knowledge of Sovereign's language in its databanks. You wouldn't know what the fuck it was saying. Last time I talked to an ant I was like 4 years old. Sovereign wouldn't be talking to you, wouldn't know what human speech is like, let alone any other galactic race's language. The fact that is happening to any extent is a joke, or an insult to the premise they were setting up to begin with. It is a dialogue to impress brainlets and, sincerely, reddit.
>>730583097There's a lot of things you can do, but there was no reason for Bioware to bring the Reapers in the Milky Way in ME3 to begin with.
>>7305802981. They're right on schedule, Quarians are already on the brink of extinction from the Geth.2. The longer they wait, the longer organics have to prepare a defense.
>>730583643>hey're right on schedule, Quarians are already on the brink of extinction from the Geth.They don't care about the Quarians. They always only harvest one race to make a capital Reaper, and Humanity would be used for this cycle. The rest are just canon fodder.
>>730583742The point being that D-Day is here, synthetics are wiping out organics. They're actually behind schedule.
>>730585227Maybe, but they don't really care. Like, if the Synthetics had killed the organics 7k years ago, they'd just have come in and killed the Synethetics, maybe. We can't even be sure of that. It's a very flimsy timeframe.
>>730564593Hell yea fellow refusalchadMy fave ending and the only one that makes sense
>>730563975The thumbnail looks like Pyramid Head with a huge dick standing with his hands on his hips
>>730564516>Drew Karpyshyn's full vision realisedwhat would that be?
>>730583552Now this is some top tier reddit posting>umm ackshually he's talking to an ant and ants can't talkkill yourself faggot
>>730583552Sovereign could easily have data on all available languages and species in the galaxy. There would be little reason not to, since he was still working inside the confines of pre-invasion. He's working directly with a Turian, so why wouldn't he absorb all information there was to be had? The Reapers understand that humans have languages, can express ideas and have complex thoughts. He would understand the difference between you talking to an ant and him talking to a sapient creature, else he would be incredibly limited in his ability to comprehend shit. He wouldn't be in contact with Saren if he didn't understand how people function or what they can do. He calls Shepard insignificant because in his mind, there's nothing that can be done to stop the Reapers, but that doesn't mean he won't interact with someone.Nothing in the lore ever stated that the Reapers were above communication or couldn't understand mortals. That's something the fans projected because they think they have to be copies of Cthulhu, yet even Lovecraft had cosmic horrors who interacted with humans in a direct fashion. Harbinger is where shit went off the rails, because he seemed to have a personal relationship with Shepard and put significance on him
>>730587371>>Sovereign could easily have data on all available languages and species in the galaxyHow, and why? And of what interest are rudimentary beings of flesh to a Reaper? Under that definition, Sovereign should patently not give a single shit about anything, or anyone, living in the Milky Way. It is antithetical to his own explanation of his views of organics.
>>730563975I thought that was Pyramid Head for a second
>>730587481No, you're just very stupid and yet think you're very smart.
>>730587675Well, you sure convinced me, anon.
>>730587846I wasn't trying to. That guy was. I just wanted you to be aware of your ailment, but, like the retard you are, I expect understanding it or correcting it to be beyond your ability
>>730563975badass promo. probably the best promo in post 00s gaming. sovereign puts butts in seats. nobody can cut a promo like that. he made me buy the game just because of his insane mic work, and that's a shoot, brotherhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_NAoNd4YyY
>>730587481>Giant supercomputer determined to eradicate all intelligent life forms.>"Nah, no more data for me thanks. It's beneath me."Retarded take.
>>730587481>HowYou think Sovereign is incapable of absorbing data? >and why?Because he's working within boundaries. Because he's working and interacting directly with a Turian already. Because it could potentially help him in fulfilling his purpose as the vanguard>And of what interest are rudimentary beings of flesh to a Reaper?Not much other than that they're the subject of the purges the Reapers are going to perform. By definition they have to be of interest to him, because the Reapers entire purpose is to cull them. They have to know there's something to cull in the first place. You need to know what humans are, because you need to know what Earth is, because you need to exterminate them and make sure that every, single human in the entire galaxy is killed. Same goes for all the other species>Sovereign should patently not give a single shit about anything, or anyone, living in the Milky Way.Were that the case, he wouldn't be there in the first place. The Reapers' entire area of interest is life in the Milky Way. That's explicitly their focus >It is antithetical to his own explanation of his views of organics.Nothing he says precludes him from interacting with organics, just that they organics are of no consequence and won't make a difference in the long wrong. The Reapers are clearly concerned about optimization, else they wouldn't bother leaving Sovereign behind to activate the Citadel relay or prepare for the invasion at all.Also, since they purposely leave the galaxy to let species develop to a certain technological threshold, then they're clearly putting thought into organic life and how they progress. Why bother leaving any organics alive at all, or to go into hiding instead of staying in the Milky Way, if there isn't some consideration given to said organics?
>>730580508Well maybe humans proved troublesome enough to create a human-like reaper to integrate "human abilities" into the reaper fleet, the way leviathan-like reapers integrate leviathan abilities
The reapers entering the galaxy should have been a fail state, maybe have a cutscene to show the reapers smashing fleets and purging the home worlds of all the races if they do to drive home the point that it's unwinnable.Also ME2 should have never happened.
The Reaper plotline was always the lamest part of the seriesThe real reason we remember mass effect is because of the Genophage and the Geth.>Genophage>massive inter-species political shit-show where multiple council races were involved>genuine moral ambiguity whether the Krogan deserved it or not>both outcomes you can choose have satisfying conclusions (Mordin in the tower or the fight with Wrex)Shame the Geth was so morally black and white, the Geth are clearly the victims of Quarian moral panic, and no matter what you choose in their story it's unsatisfying. ME3 is unironically strongest in its first act. Every subsequent story beat is weaker than the last.
>>730564104If they did we would have gotten a new real mass effect and it would have been amazing.Reapers winning should be canon.
>>730588738The Sovereign conversation is one of the most talked about moments in all the games, and is definitely the thing that leaves the greatest impression when you're playing through Mass Effect for the first time (if the Reapers weren't spoiled for you, that is). It completely revs up the pace and is frankly what sparked the interest for the story going forward. It's an absolutely great plot introduction and significantly raises the stakes in a way you didn't suspect, and really gives your mind room to theorize about the future games. Them and the Protheans were the mysteries that tied the setting together. Too bad the Reaper plotline was downhill from the moment Sovereign died
>>730582815>Reapers have cleared the Milky Way for millions of years>Humans conveniently find something that destroys all AI (how do you even do that? There's only one way to achieve AI in the ME universe but it seemingly doesn't target the ships' AI?), Reapers and the Mass Relays in one fell swoop>"...subversion..."No, anon. That's called Deus Ex Machina, one of the original plot contrivances.
>>730566939>dead space 3 did thisNo it didn't. DS3 ending is a cliffhanger not a stated, definite necromoons victory.
The problem is that the reapers are too weak for the whole cycle thing to be believable, while i can accept that the civilizations of the current cycle were particularly complacent and caught off guard , it's hard to believe every single one were, given the reapers as portrayed it seems that any galaxy spannign empire actually engaging in a total war buildup for say a décade or any cycle where the various states are already militarized would have a fair chance of conventionaly defending against the reapers invasion
>>730588462>>You think Sovereign is incapable of absorbing data?No, just that he clearly doesn't care about the data.>>Because he's working within boundariesThat is irrelevant.>Because he's working and interacting directly with a Turian alreadyYes. That's also an issue, because he's no real reason to be working with a Turian. It doesn't even make sense why he, allegedly, started the Rachni wars. Because the galactic military was at no point to pose a threat to him. He could have solo'd the entire Milky Way millenia ago.>Because it could potentially help him in fulfilling his purpose as the vanguardBut he didn't need them to begin with.>Not much other than that they're the subject of the purges the Reapers are going to perform.That's still not relevant to him, or his purpose.>By definition they have to be of interest to him, because the Reapers entire purpose is to cull themThat is irrelevant to his interactions with organics, or learning their language. He doesn't need to talk to them to harvest them.>cont
>>730589789>literally every weapon and technology is designed by the Reapers for you to find and use so it hamstrings you in the way they wantthe first game made two things clear>you literally cannot fight them, nobody can>stopping sovereign only delays the inevitabletoo bad ME2 exists
>>730590146>reddit spacingof course
>>730588462>They have to know there's something to cull in the first placeDo they have FTL drives? Then they're worth culling. Question answered.>You need to know what humans are, because you need to know what Earth is, because you need to exterminate them and make sure that every, single human in the entire galaxy is killed. Same goes for all the other speciesRight. So talking to them is irrelevant, if you already know that you have to harvest them, and talking to them is irrelevant to harvesting them. These are self-explanatory.>Were that the case, he wouldn't be there in the first place. The Reapers' entire area of interest is life in the Milky Way. That's explicitly their focusWhich you wouldn't know about until ME3. Which is a retcon to what Sovereign says in ME1. Which are conflicting things.>Nothing he says precludes him from interacting with organicsIt doesn't preclude him, but it does put the concept of interacting with organics as something beneath him, even as he interacts. Which is contradictory. Which is why the conversation is stupid as a premise. You either do, or you don't. You don't go "I don't converse with idiots", as you converse with idiots. It is a very simple premise.>cont
>>730588462>just that they organics are of no consequence and won't make a difference in the long wrongCheck grammar because hard understandy.>The Reapers are clearly concerned about optimizationNot optimization. They just don't know what happened and the Keepers didn't start the Citadel Relay.>else they wouldn't bother leaving Sovereign behind to activate the Citadel relayIf that was all there was to it, he could have solo'd the entire Milky Way 2k years ago. Instead, he was fucking around looking for nothing, for 2k years. He did, allegedly, start the Rachni war, though.>or prepare for the invasion at allHe did 0 preparation for the invasion.
>>730590205>No argumentOf course.
>>730590558Now he's grammar posting
>>730590146>No, just that he clearly doesn't care about the data.How does he clearly not care?>That is irrelevant.Why is that irrelevant?>Yes. That's also an issue, because he's no real reason to be working with a TurianBut he does. He needs someone to activate the Relay>Because the galactic military was at no point to pose a threat to him. He could have solo'd the entire Milky Way millenia ago.The is nothing to suggest that he is literally invulnerable, just that he's incredibly powerful. He wouldn't need the Geth fleet otherwise>But he didn't need them to begin with.Nigger, he literally fucking does. He can't activate the relay on his own>That's still not relevant to him, or his purpose.How is it not relevant? His and all the other Reapers' entire purpose for existing is to purge organics>That is irrelevant to his interactions with organics, or learning their language. He doesn't need to talk to them to harvest them.So what? Why wouldn't he learn all there is to learn, since the Reapers clearly attempt to optimize their invasions>Do they have FTL drives? Then they're worth culling. Question answered.They need to know where the organics are. How they can hide. Where they will hide, etc. >Right. So talking to them is irrelevant, if you already know that you have to harvest them, and talking to them is irrelevant to harvesting them. These are self-explanatory.Why do you insist that the Reapers won't talk to someone just because it isn't a strict necessity of harvesting? You're the one who's attributing behavior to the Reapers that they were never written to have. He can find humans insignificant in their resistance, but that doesn't won't talk to one
>>730590608>you shouldn't argue with idiots when you're that far above them>why won't you argue with meLol, lmao. See>>730588006
it should have ended with 12 was bad and the 3 absolute shitshow
>>730590635>How does he clearly not care?Because it is irrelevant.>>Why is that irrelevant?I already answered that.>But he does. He needs someone to activate the RelayWhy can't he? Don't Reapers activate Relays? Who activated their relay in Dark Space? Santa?>>The is nothing to suggest that he is literally invulnerable, just that he's incredibly powerful. He wouldn't need the Geth fleet otherwiseME1 disagrees. He literally steamrolls through several fleets, and bombards the Citadel forces without his shields wavering, until Shepard breaks Metal Cooler, I mean Mecha Saren, which breaks his direct control and for some reason lowers his shields. And yes, Joker literally tells us several times that Sovereign's shields show no sign of damage, throughout his attack. He is invulnerable.>>Nigger, he literally fucking does. He can't activate the relay on his ownAlready answered.>>How is it not relevant? His and all the other Reapers' entire purpose for existing is to purge organicsBecause they are beneath him. Already answered.>So what? Why wouldn't he learn all there is to learn, since the Reapers clearly attempt to optimize their invasionsBecause they are beneath him. Also, already answered. Read, nigga.>>They need to know where the organics are. How they can hide. Where they will hide, etc.Also irrelevant. Reapers have ground forces, and take hundreds of years to clean the Milky Way. They will find out everything. You don't need 2k years, or English to find that out.>Why do you insist that the Reapers won't talk to someone just because it isn't a strict necessity of harvesting?Because Sovereign already said they are beneath him. Do you think Soros would talk to you? No. Why would Sovereign?>You're the one who's attributing behavior to the Reapers that they were never written to haveSovereign outright tells you that, though.>He can find humans insignificant in their resistance, but that doesn't won't talk to oneEngly talky hardy?
>>730590387>Which you wouldn't know about until ME3. Which is a retcon to what Sovereign says in ME1. Which are conflicting things.Wrong. We already know in 1 that the Reapers have purged organics before, and that they purposely set up the Citadel as a trap, and left Sovereign behind, for the next purge. That's from the first game, not third. He literally tells you it's a cycle>It doesn't preclude him, but it does put the concept of interacting with organics as something beneath him, even as he interacts. Never does he say that a conversation is beneath him. He says you can't understand his true nature, that you're ignorant and that the Reapers allow organics to exist and guide their development. He talks to Shepard because he can. It doesn't matter to him, because organics are already doomed. He's willingly listing off information>Not optimization. They just don't know what happened and the Keepers didn't start the Citadel Relay.What do you mean? They purposely built the Citadel so that they could perform a lightning strike. When that fails, they fly through deep space instead>If that was all there was to it, he could have solo'd the entire Milky Way 2k years ago. Instead, he was fucking around looking for nothing, for 2k years. He did, allegedly, start the Rachni war, though.How is that an argument for organics being irrelevant? His explicit purpose is to start the invasion by activating the Citadel relay>He did 0 preparation for the invasion.What the fuck are you talking about. The things he does in 1 is preparing the invasion. Why bother with Saren? Why bother with the Geth? You're using your headcanon to pretend like the Reapers don't care about organics, but their entire purpose is seemingly to let organics develop to a certain point, spring their trap, purge them and then return later. You just keep saying what Sovereign is doing is irrelevant, when it clearly is relevant else he wouldn't do it
>>730591147>Why can't he? Don't Reapers activate Relays? Who activated their relay in Dark Space? Santa?Nigger, did you even play the fucking game? The entire assault on the Citadel is because Saren needs to be in the council chamber and Sovereign needs to attach himself to it >ME1 disagrees. He literally steamrolls through several fleets, and bombards the Citadel forces without his shields wavering, until Shepard breaks Metal Cooler, I mean Mecha Saren, which breaks his direct control and for some reason lowers his shields. And yes, Joker literally tells us several times that Sovereign's shields show no sign of damage, throughout his attack. He is invulnerable.If he was invulnerable, he wouldn't need a fleet. Your entire argument is based on shit that flies in the face of what actually happens in the story. Half your arguments are just writing "irrelevant" and acting smug>Engly talky hardy?I'm not doing a good job at spellchecking, I'll give you that
>>730564104Would probably have a better reception than what they ended up doing.
You are now aware this is just mecha pyramidhead with a big dick.
>>730591264>Wrong. We already know in 1 that the Reapers have purged organics before, and that they purposely set up the Citadel as a trap, and left Sovereign behind, for the next purge. That's from the first game, not third. He literally tells you it's a cycleBut you don't know their interest is the Milky Way. Or that they harvest Organics to create Reapers. In ME1, you just think that they kill Organics for the fun of it. So learning English is irrelevant to them.>Never does he say that a conversation is beneath him"Rudimentary being of flesh"? Do you casually refer to people you talk to as such? No. But even then, there are people that you don't consider as such, yet you don't care to talk to them. So Sovereign, who does view you as such, is just casually striking up conversation with you. One does not coincide with the other.>He says you can't understand his true nature, that you're ignorant and that the Reapers allow organics to existWhy would he even bother saying that?>and guide their developmentHe doesn't say that.>He talks to Shepard because he canI can kill people, but I don't. Capacity does not equate action.>It doesn't matter to him, because organics are already doomedSo there's no reason to talk to them.>He's willingly listing off informationWhich he has no incentive, or motivation to.>How is that an argument for organics being irrelevant? His explicit purpose is to start the invasion by activating the Citadel relayBut he doesn't need anyone to do that.>>What the fuck are you talking about. The things he does in 1 is preparing the invasionNo, it isn't. It is to find what the Crucible is. Which he would have no reason of knowing it exists to begin with.>Why bother with Saren? Why bother with the Geth?I don't know. That is a plot hole. You are using something that occurs for no reason, to excuse a plot hole. It doesn't make it not a plot hole.>cont
>>730591264>You're using your headcanon to pretend like the Reapers don't care about organics, but their entire purpose is seemingly to let organics develop to a certain point, spring their trap, purge them and then return laterThat's an ME3 retcon. In ME1, you only know that Sovereign kills organics for the fun of it. Which was the original idea for the Reapers, and ME3 retconned it. But you can't reconcile the two, without retconing one out.>You just keep saying what Sovereign is doing is irrelevant, when it clearly is relevant else he wouldn't do itIt is irrelevant, and what he is doing is antithetical to his words. You are trying to excuse the antithesis, by saying he wouldn't do it, if it was antithetical, yet he says it is antithetical as he does it. Which is why it is bad writing. You simply excuse it by happening.
>>730591656>>Nigger, did you even play the fucking game? The entire assault on the Citadel is because Saren needs to be in the council chamber and Sovereign needs to attach himself to itAgain, why would Sovereign not be able to operate a Relay, without pressing buttons? That is a huge design flaw. Remember how we mock Star Wars for the shaft that blows up the Death Star? Similar level.>If he was invulnerable, he wouldn't need a fleetThat's true, he didn't. As evident of him steam rolling 5 allied Citadel fleets.>Your entire argument is based on shit that flies in the face of what actually happens in the storySo I shouldn't believe my lying eyes.>Half your arguments are just writing "irrelevant" and acting smugBut the things that I call irrelevant, are actually irrelevant, and don't actually excuse anything. And so far, you've failed to prove otherwise.
>>730564793>first time you talk to him, you get the sense hes some God-tier entity, reshaping and destroying whole galaxiesOnly if you were a stupid faggot. A god tier entity wouldn't instantly notice Shepard wasn't Saren and then have a conversation like a sperg throwing a tantrum saying, "No, you WILL end because we DEMAND it!" Sovereign was always shit.
>>730592709Exactly.
>>730564516That narrative black hole that would've lead them down the same dead-end? Yeah, the journey might've been more interesting, but the ending would've been the same.The IP was fucked from the start, the Mass Effect they showcased was completely different from the Mass Effect they delivered(something everyone chose to forget) ergo uncertainty was at the very franchise's foundation.
>>730592068>But you don't know their interest is the Milky Way.We know it's a cycle. We know they guide organics along a certain path. We know they wait a certain amount of time between each purge. So yes, we do know that organics are, at the very least, one of their interests>Sovereign, who does view you as such, is just casually striking up conversation with you. One does not coincide with the other.He's being asked questions and he simply answers them because why not? It doesn't matter in his overall mission, but that doesn't mean he won't do it. He never says he's wasting time or that he won't interact with organics. His entire plan hinges on an organic>Why would he even bother saying that?Because in his mind it's true?>He doesn't say that."Your civilization is based on the technology of the Mass Relays - our technology. By using it, your society develops along the paths we desire. We impose order on the chaos of organic evolution">I can kill people, but I don't. Capacity does not equate action.So what? You're not a Reaper>So there's no reason to talk to them.And no reason not to>Which he has no incentive, or motivation to.Why would that matter to him?>But he doesn't need anyone to do that.Then what the fuck is Saren doing in the Council chambers?>No, it isn't. It is to find what the Crucible is.Now who's talking about 3? The Crucible wasn't a thing in 1. Frankly Anon, I'm starting to doubt you've even played the fucking thing>I don't know. That is a plot hole. You are using something that occurs for no reason, to excuse a plot hole. It doesn't make it not a plot hole.How is that a plot hole? Because it doesn't fit with the fan fiction you've made up? Sovereign needs these things to accomplish his goals. That's literally what happens in the story. That's literally the canon
>>730592645The citadel wasn't just "a relay", so what is even the point when you're fundamentally arguing in bad faith? Not him by the way.
>>730592504>That's an ME3 retcon. In ME1, you only know that Sovereign kills organics for the fun of it.Go watch the 5 minutes conversation with Sovereign and stop talking about shit you clearly know nothing about. You're straight up just lying to win the argument
>>730564104That's Enderal
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPbB4qfsA14
>>730592645>Remember how we mock Star Wars for the shaft that blows up the Death StarNo? Only stupid faggot and pseuds do that.
>>730592913>We know it's a cycleKinda.>We know they guide organics along a certain pathNot yet.>We know they wait a certain amount of time between each purgeYes.>So yes, we do know that organics are, at the very least, one of their interestsThat's now how Sovereign puts it. Sovereign basically says that killing us is sport to them.>He's being asked questions and he simply answers them because why not?Not an answer. I don't bother answering people I intend to kill. You have not successfully justified that.>Because in his mind it's true?True or not is irrelevant, when the person you are encountering is beneath your notice. You just don't engage.>>"Your civilization is based on the technology of the Mass Relays - our technology. By using it, your society develops along the paths we desire. We impose order on the chaos of organic evolution"I don't remember that line at all, but also, who the fuck says that? Even if you do, why? This is like autofellatio on a next level. Hasan Piker levels of self-glazing, and it serves no purpose. Cringe.>cont.
>>730592913>So what? You're not a ReaperNeither are you.>And no reason not toNo reason not to do something, isn't the same as having a reason to do something. If Sovereign is indeed a higher intelligence, he wouldn't engage with things that don't forward his agenda, and this does not.>Why would that matter to him?>I have no intention or reason to do something, but I'm gonna do it anyway.So he's retarded.>Then what the fuck is Saren doing in the Council chambers?Again, excusing something because it was written to be so, doesn't make it good writing. Reapers being unable to activate Mass Relays is fucking stupid. It will never not be stupid. They made the fucking Relays. It's like making light switches, but making tiny robots that operate the switches, and no way for us to operate them otherwise. There is 0 reason why it should work that way.>That's literally what happens in the story. That's literally the canonThen the canon is stupid. Making something stupid is generally bad. Defending it by saying it happens anyway, doesn't make the stupid go away.
>>730593000>>The citadel wasn't just "a relay", so what is even the point when you're fundamentally arguing in bad faith? Not him by the way.So because the Citadel wasn't "just" a Relay, then the Reapers should have no way of operating the Relay that is part of the Citadel. Can you tell me why it should be that way, other than that's how it happens?
>>730593018>>Go watch the 5 minutes conversation with Sovereign and stop talking about shit you clearly know nothing about. You're straight up just lying to win the argument>You exist because we allow it, and you will end because we demand itSounds like he's up for killing organics, to me. At least, I can't interpret it as "we're doing it to preserve you from the inevitability that is organics creating synthetics, that will kill their organic creators, so we will turn you into goo, before you go extinct". If benevolence was attempted to be conveyed here, it was not. The obvious implication is that they kill organics for sport.
>>730593593>No? Only stupid faggot and pseuds do that.Then I am a stupid faggot AND a pseud. What are you gonna do about that?
>>730593763>I don't remember that line at all, but also, who the fuck says that>he says it's a sport to themYou are literally just arguing with your own headcanon at this point
>>730564389Hey...She's still warm
>>730594116Vigil tells you they used the conduit to get to the citadel and reprogram it so they can't send an outside signal to activate it.
>>730594295>well I do eat shit what are you gonna do about it?Well shit I guess you win then
>>730594242NTA but it's not benevolence, it's programming. It's an imperative.
i just replayed andromeda and i liked it
>>730594605
>>730594338>You are literally just arguing with your own headcanon at this pointI literally posted the quote of what Sovereign said about why Reapers kill organics. How do you interpret it?
>>730594487No, they reprogrammed the Keepers, to not open the Relay. Even then, if Sovereign can steam roll through 5 fleets, he can afford himself the time to remotely interface the Citadel to reprogram the Relay himself.
>>730594781>please explain to me why being retarded makes me a retardI'm not sure I'm capable of putting it in terms you would understand.
>>730594591>>NTA but it's not benevolence, it's programming. It's an imperative.When did Sovereign tell you he is programmed to do anything, in ME1?
>>730595010>no argumentAlright then.
>>730564104The reaction would have been similar to their eventual shitshow ending.Bioware should have left Reapers stuck in the dark space and focus on some other stories in the galaxy. Just let them travel very slowly towards the galaxy (like decades) or just scheme there in the dark.Mass Effect had so much potential. Reaper threath could have been revisited later on.
>>730594242>The obvious implication is that they kill organics for sport.No, it isn't. I don't think I've ever seen anyone think that, and it goes directly against YOUR argument that organics are irrelevant to them
>>730595447>>No, it isn't. I don't think I've ever seen anyone think that, and it goes directly against YOUR argument that organics are irrelevant to themSo you think that the people that went to Africa to kill lions, went there because they cared about the Lions, or because killing Lions was fun?
>>730595107>once again the guy who says superior beings would never deign to argue with an inferior one is confused as to why nobody will argue with himProving that you are as retarded as I thought
>>730595957That depends, if you consider yourself to be on the level of Sovereign, while I am an ant. In which case you have delusions of grandeur and megalomania, with a touch of narcissism. Sovereign is an invulnerable, unstoppable, immortal giant space death squid. You are not on the same level, even at the height of your own delusion.
>>730595887Nigger, your entire argument is that organics are so irrelevant to Reapers that they won't even talk to one, yet you're using human behavior as an argument for Reaper motivation
>>730596114Um no he isn't. He's a retard, you said so yourself. Your current position is antithetical to your previously stated position.But that doesn't change that the gulf between you and me is about the same
>>730564104Make it so that destroy is the best ending. Plot twist the conduit isn’t a magic energy weapon it’s a bomb that turns Earths sun into a supernova. Earth, the entire fleet, Shepherd, and his crew die to stop the Reapers. The reapers are destroyed at the cost of trillions of lives. The other 3 endings the Reapers just win outright. Grimdark motherfuckers.
>>730596432>Make it so that destroy is the best endingBut anon, destroy is already the best ending
>>730596235>Nigger, your entire argument is that organics are so irrelevant to Reapers that they won't even talk to one, yet you're using human behavior as an argument for Reaper motivationAnd you're using human motivation to argue Reaper behavior. I'm saying you have not established motive, because human motive is not Reaper motive, and no creature does things because "why not". If that were true, you'd set yourself on fire, because "why not". Obviously, a Reaper is not human, and it does not operate under a "why not" rule. If it does operate under a "why not" rule, then why not kill itself? Because it's not programmed to? Which we only learn about in ME3. Which also does not equate it is programmed to interact with rando organic #97643098. You are, effectively, citing your own fallacy to excuse the problem. Because it suits you.
>>730596314>>Um no he isn't. He's a retard, you said so yourself.I agree that he is a retard. And I also agree that everyone that is taken by that dialogue is also a retard. And anyone that believed Sovereign's talk about his giga level intelligence to be an even bigger retard. But you believe that he is intelligent, and that it all happens according to his giga brain. And you can't have both. Either he is a retard, and the conversation is retarded, or he is giga level intelligence and the conversation is woah so deep. If you agree with me, then good.
>>730596667Literally retarded, there are no words
>>730596691>there are no wordsI will accept your concession.
>>730596762>I said it again, I must be winningLol, lmao. Sure.
>>730596521>And you're using human motivation to argue Reaper behaviorWhen?>I'm saying you have not established motive, because human motive is not Reaper motive,Yet you have tried to use human behavior, your own included, as an arugment multiple time ITT>and no creature does things because "why not"So the Reapers are just like other creatures after all? So why can't he talk to humans? Maybe he enjoys it, would be your argument right?>If that were true, you'd set yourself on fire, because "why not"And you're doing it AGAIN. I'm a human. You're so eager to talk about Sovereign being above organics, but yet again you use human behavior as an argument>Obviously, a Reaper is not human, and it does not operate under a "why not" rule. If it does operate under a "why not" rule, then why not kill itself?Jesus fuck dude, what are you talking about. Sovereign reacting with a "why not" when he decides to respond to Shepard is not the same logic as the nihilistic conclusion that he has to kill himself>Which also does not equate it is programmed to interact with rando organic #97643098. You are, effectively, citing your own fallacy to excuse the problem. Because it suits you.I've never said anything about programming
>>730564104That would be too severeBut I think the best possible ending should have been barley surviving at a heavy cost rather than the ass pull red/green/blue victories
>>730597009>When?Since the beginning of your argument.>>Yet you have tried to use human behavior, your own included, as an arugment multiple time ITTIgnoring shit is everyone's behavior. Not just humans'.>>So the Reapers are just like other creatures after all? So why can't he talk to humans? Maybe he enjoys it, would be your argument right?If he enjoys talking to humans, going around killing them would be a very counter productive way of achieving it. Especially since he has specifically talked to 0 other humans in the entire span of the game. So it would prove sufficient that, if he does, then the writers either did a bad job of showing it, or he is retarded in his attempt to talk to them. Both these cases are bad writing, but one of them also reinforces the fact that Sovereign is, in fact, as retarded as his conversation with Shepard.>Jesus fuck dude, what are you talking about. Sovereign reacting with a "why not" when he decides to respond to Shepard is not the same logic as the nihilistic conclusion that he has to kill himselfWhy not?>I've never said anything about programmingGood for you.
>>730563975*is the only ayy lmaoo that doesnt job*
>>730597317>Ignoring shit is everyone's behavior. Not just humans'.I'm not talking about the act of ignoring something. You have used yourself, or other humans, as a counter to why Sovereign would do something. Your claim is that he is above organics, yet you consistently resort to human psychology to explain his or the Reapers' behavior. What exactly is your argument for why he wouldn't reply to Shepard?
>>730598214If you can't use an example to set a pattern of behavior, how can you accept communication in any form to begin with? Ignoring is the most common thing to do, and the most logical thing to do. Especially when you have no motive to do something, which so far you've not established. Because doing something takes infinitely more effort to do, than not doing something. So why would Sovereign exert the force to do something, when he can do nothing?
>>730598080>promptly gets BTFO by one (1) robot gorilla
>>730582667they're cuttlefish you retard
>>730598512>If you can't use an example to set a pattern of behavior, how can you accept communication in any form to begin with?Sovereign already knows how organics interact. He talks with Saren>Ignoring is the most common thing to do, and the most logical thing to doHe doesn't need to follow human logic>Especially when you have no motive to do something, which so far you've not establishedWhy does Sovereign need any sort of motive to reply to Shepard? He doesn't have to think like you or I do>So why would Sovereign exert the force to do something, when he can do nothing?Because he's a Reaper, not a human. Your entire problem is that you insist he needs to be a certain way, but the character was never written like that and was not meant to be like that. Sovereign acts how he does, because that's how Reapers are. It's not bad writing just because you don't like that he replies to questions
>>730564151>>730564239The Reapers are an inherently vapid and uninteresting premise that were never going to be able to provide a satisfying conclusion. When you base your entire enemy faction over how LE UNKNOWABLE and LE UNSTOPPABLE they are, ANY motivation is going to wind up unsatisfying and ANY way that the heroes win is going to feel like a deus ex machina. It's the exact same problem Game of Thrones had with the White Walkers.
>>730599029dweeb
>>730599139>Sovereign already knows how organics interact. He talks with SarenI'm not talking about Sovereign, I'm talking about you.>He doesn't need to follow human logicAlright, ignore logic. So he is insane. Why does he try to make sense to Shepard, then?>>Why does Sovereign need any sort of motive to reply to Shepard? He doesn't have to think like you or I doAlright, then why does he have to reply to Shepard? He doesn't have to think like you or I do. You see, the issue with this line of argument, is that it allows either side to retreat to an indefinite amount of "why not"s, because you don't have to establish anything, and either side can keep escalating the stakes, until we reach the point of "why doesn't Sovereign kill himself?" Because he doesn't have to think like you or me. The point is that>Sovereign considered his intelligence beyond anything else>Has nothing to gain by interacting with Shepard>As established already, doing something requires infinitely more energy that doing nothing>Has no motive to share his knowledge with others>Has shown no particular penchant towards interacting with organics>Actively scorn organicsSo why would he do anything that goes contrary to that?>Because he's a Reaper, not a human. Your entire problem is that you insist he needs to be a certain way, but the character was never written like that and was not meant to be like that. Sovereign acts how he does, because that's how Reapers are. It's not bad writing just because you don't like that he replies to questionsNo, it is bad writing. Because it goes contrary to everything established in the game so far, and contradicts Sovereign's stance in his own dialogue. You just disagree, because you feel personally invested in it.
>>730564151Who else. People were already bitching that 2 didn "follow the main"story , actually
>>730567310>Star Child's solution is to create the Reapers in which the essence of organic species can be preserved forever>And it does so by liquefying people into goo, mixing it into big batches and then injecting said goo into giant robots that will then be put into even bigger robot spaceshipsI can't believe humans actually wrote this garbage. That would be like going to a blood bank, taking all the vials and then dumping it into a giant vat because that "preserves" everyone's DNA. That then grows into a human shaped metal robot piloting a space cuttlefish.
>>730599893Nothing Sovereign says in his conversation with Shepard establishes that he won't reply to questions. You started off by saying that Sovereign and the Reapers have no interests in organics, but we know that's false since he explicitly states that he's here to perform another cycle of purging organics. He says that the Reapers guide organics along a certain line of evolution, and that they make sure organics discover and use Reaper technology. So that part of your argument is shotWe already know that Sovereign has personally communicated with an organic, because Saren talks with him. He enters conversation with Shepard because he thinks Saren was contacting him. So we know that he both has an interest in organics, and that he is capable of communicating with them>Has nothing to gain by interacting with ShepardAnd nothing to lose. The conversation doesn't establish that he would only reply to someone if he had something to gain. It does not establish that Reapers need gain as a motivation to reply to questions. I'm pretty sure energy is of no issue for him at fucking all, which you yourself would agree with since you called him invincible, so why would the idea of conserving energy even enter his mind? From his perspective, nothing can be done to stop the Reapers, so why would he think about withholding information? He wouldn't need a motive to reply to Shepard>Has shown no particular penchant towards interacting with organicsHe does so in that very scene and this interaction is the sum total of all we knew about the Reapers at that point. Sovereign has demonstrated that the Reapers are willing to have some sort of conversation. The writers even give themselves an out by having him literally state that you can't comprehend his natureYou want Sovereign to be something that he isn't. It's literally built-in that we don't understand his motives/that he experiences reality differently. You should be talking about Harbinger, not Sovereign
>>730601669All of this, has already been answered, and you're regurgitating the same points as before. I don't know what pleasure you get out of repeating yourself.
>>730601912I could ask you the same thing. What I know is that nothing is wrong with the Sovereign scene, and that all the things that make the Reapers retarded comes after ME1
>>730564104>Can you imagine if BioWare had the ballsno
>>730602365>>I could ask you the same thingYou have made no headway in your argument, though. By denying things staring you in the face, and saying things like>What I know is that nothing is wrong with the Sovereign sceneWhich is simply rubbish. You simply answer with "you don't know this" and "you don't know that", and rejecting things that the dialogue itself says, and the game itself portrays. You've learned nothing.>all the things that make the Reapers retarded comes after ME1No, it starts from ME1. I am sorry that I speak ill of your gospel, which you seem incapable of criticizing, or accept criticism of. I will criticize ME2, which I prefer infinitely more, and accept criticisms of others. And I can argue some for or against. But I will not show the stubbornness and ostrichism that you display.
>>730569973No, the remnant / angara / jardaan being the lost lineage of awakened collectors / protheans could on a similar mission could have - as well as reconning STARCHILD into being the result of a previously completed Conduit having AI hallucinations and losing sight of the reapers original goal of harvesting all organic life into “the afterlife” in reaper form to prevent the spread of the scourge to the Milky Way That could have helped.Supposedly that’s what ME5 may end up becoming, and I can only pray this is the case.
>>730580908The geth would never have wiped out organic races. Only the heretics were interested in violence - and even that was solely so they would be left alone by the Quarians so they could stop being alone and live together in a reaper shell or Alderson Disc.
>>730603604>I will criticize ME2, which I prefer infinitely moreYou are such a fucking faggot
>>730603885Yeah, I am a fucking faggot. What are you gonna do about it?
>>730583552Naazara learned standard universal translation through the geth, saren, and Jack Harper.
>>730603961Laugh at your idiocy and move on
>>730596432Shepard dying in me1 means it will always be a bad choice for the ending of 3. He has to live forever now no matter what.
>>730604025Where is that said? And why would Sovereign learn anything from TIM?
>>730593763“I don’t remember” - which in itself speaks poorly to either your memory, or your personal investment in a series. Followed by :“It serves no purpose”Yeah man, making a convenient place for the heads of all galactic government to live and integrate to control society across billions of years is “self-glazing”, and not a carefully thought out process to attain a desired goal. Jesus Christ you’re a fuckin’ idiot.
>>730604537>>“I don’t remember” - which in itself speaks poorly to either your memory, or your personal investment in a series. >Followed by :>“It serves no purpose”>>Yeah man, making a convenient place for the heads of all galactic government to live and integrate to control society across billions of years is “self-glazing”, and not a carefully thought out process to attain a desired goal. >Jesus Christ you’re a fuckin’ idiot.This entire argument has nothing to do with what was being discussed.
>>730603604>You have made no headway in your argument, thoughYou're the one who isn't even arguing the initial point anymore. Need I remind you that you started out by saying Sovereign and the Reapers have no interest in organics? You argued that he had no reason to work with Saren, and that he didn't need anyone else to activate the Citadel Relay, when that was patently false. You denied that we already knew from ME1 that the Reapers had interest in the galaxy, despite Sovereign directly stating that they did. And don't forget the dozen or so times you tried to explain Sovereign's behavior with human psychology, despite your entire point being that he was a being so far above us that he wouldn't interact with us. You also insist he must be something that he isn't and was never supposes to, because you demand he has some human-derived logical reason for why he'd reply to Shepard, something the scene wouldn't benefit from and would run contrary to him unknowable in his motivation. If you wrote this scene, it would be SHIT
>>730594781>>730594487You’re both right and wrong. The keeper signal (one of the first culled races) activates the citizen relay from being activated from the INSIDE. But can be overridden via direct interface - it’s why sovereign assaulted it with his geth fleet - to open up the relay that exists in dark space so that his brothers could darken the sky’s of all worlds in this cycle. Saren was tasked with stopping Shepard, and failed, thus sovereign saw that things required direct intervention, used Sarens upgraded reaper tech to assume direct control - and once defeated in sarens body reassuming himself caused systems to drop barriers which allowed the turians and systems alliance to down the vanguard leader. Sovereign himself is a failsafe that existed outside of dark space in case of an instance where the relay trigger doesn’t occur. Failsafes on failsafes, the keepers, the citadel, sovereign, the æ relay. Though, I can’t remember, does the viper nebula contain any all-water / all ice planets? Otherwise leviathan makes less sense.
>>730604738>Need I remind you that you started out by saying Sovereign and the Reapers have no interest in organics?>>730583552>It's not just that. Under that premise, it's about as logical as a human addressing an ant. Even if you could, the ant wouldn't understand. Even if there is a universal translator, it has no knowledge of Sovereign's language in its databanks. You wouldn't know what the fuck it was saying. Last time I talked to an ant I was like 4 years old. Sovereign wouldn't be talking to you, wouldn't know what human speech is like, let alone any other galactic race's language. The fact that is happening to any extent is a joke, or an insult to the premise they were setting up to begin with. It is a dialogue to impress brainlets and, sincerely, reddit.So, you lied.
>>730605004>Saren was tasked with stopping Shepard, and failedNah, Shepard chases after Saren, not the other way around. Shepard only barely manages to get through the Illos relay, hot on the heels of Saren who is heading for the council chambers
>>730605158True, you didn't mention "interest" in your first post. I take that back. But in that very same post you claim that>wouldn't know what human speech is like, let alone any other galactic race's languageDespite us knowing for a fact that he communicates with Saren. Looking back at this, I don't actually believe you've played 1, because there is no way you would forget about Saren if you had. Some other arguments that were wrong/stupid which you have yet to acknowledge >And of what interest are rudimentary beings of flesh to a Reaper? Under that definition, Sovereign should patently not give a single shit about anything, or anyone, living in the Milky Way. It is antithetical to his own explanation of his views of organics.Despite Sovereign literally telling you he has an interest in organics, that being the express purpose of his presence>Yes. That's also an issue, because he's no real reason to be working with a Turian.Which he obviously does, because he needs him inside the council chambers>Which you wouldn't know about until ME3. Which is a retcon to what Sovereign says in ME1. Which are conflicting things.Except Sovereign tells us this in the one and only conversation we have with him. You have so much against the logic of Sovereign, yet you didn't seem to know basic shit about him or the plot of the only game he's in
>>730601271Your blood contains your DNA & RNA little fella. Your DNA & RNA are full of biological markers that tell the story of your life whether you like it or not.
>>730605223SAAAAAAAREN
>>730604270You’re joking right?If it weren’t for Saren and TIM the reapers never would’ve known about the conduit -The same conduit that allowed sovereign to launch his assault.
>>730605906>>True, you didn't mention "interest" in your first post.End of conversation.
>>730606060>If it weren’t for Saren and TIM the reapers never would’ve known about the conduitThe Citadel is a trap laid by the Reapers. I don't see how they wouldn't know about it
>>730604627“ Yeah man, making a convenient place for the heads of all galactic government to live and integrate to control society across billions of years is “self-glazing”, and not a carefully thought out process to attain a desired goal.”>Jesus Christ you’re a fuckin’ idiot2.0
>>730606157The Citadel is not the conduit. The conduit is the back door mass relay from Ilos.You’re very argumentative about a series you clearly know nothing about.
>>730606129lol you coward. Go ahead, pretend like those posts don't exist
>>730606301Sorry m8. For some reason I thought you were talking about the Citadel relay itself, not the conduit the Prothean built
>>730563975I wouldn't call it jobbing when you die to a deceitful "back door" connection
>>730606528You’re all good, I thought you were the Timmy Dipshit that’s been arguing his verifiably false claims shitting up the entire fucking thread. I’m glad you’re not -that guy-, man.
>>730605223Someone didn’t read the extended material. Bro was there to kill the council (primary), and stop Shepard(tertiary).
>>730606723I'm pretty sure activating the relay was the primary goal. Don't know about the others, but surely Saren knew that the council would evacuate to the Destiny Ascension. Also, I don't think Shepard was meant to get through the Illos relay anyway
>>730606309>>lol you coward. Go ahead, pretend like those posts don't existThat's right, they don't.
>>730607670Izzat-tier
>>730605907What I'm saying is the reapers wouldn't be preserving anything because mixing together a species' worth of blood, flesh, liquefied bones and whatever would cross contaminate and everyone's DNA and RNA would be lost. You'd just end up with an unidentifiable sludge that's of no use to anyone.
>>730564151Yes it did. I think the shadow brokers had way more potential as a main antagonist? More ancient and connected than Cerberus, the yahg running it was a neat design and I can buy them plotting some galactic overthrow of the council using means that could trigger the reapers into doing their cyclic extermination. Maybe that is too much a repeat of the first mass effect. I feel like Cerberus in 2 should have been morally grey compared to the Shadow Brokers who would occupy the main enemy, the collectors being something they wrought in their dark eldritch plotting rather than the reapers.
