>Maybe .1%-1% of people that have ever subbed to WoW are subbed.How do we fix MMOs?
Stop with the fomo bullshit and just allow people to make progress that you aren't going to nuke in 3 months
Archeage almost had it right until it turned into p2w trash.
>>730692574>Stop with the fomo bullshit and just allow people to make progress that you aren't going to nuke in 3 months>WoW is only popular due to sunk cost fallacySomeone explain how these two things can coexist.
>>730692906they can'tthe guy is just repeating some bullshit a youtuber told him
>>730692906Make sandbox servers where repairs cost materials.As an addition, make full loot PvP servers wher repairs cost materials.
>>730693127EVE Online
>>730693450EVE has 24 years of leveling. You can't be as good as everybody else in something like production without a lot of training.Also, EVE doesn't have material repairs, but that's maybe not a problem because ships are destroyed at 0 HP.
Albion Online
>>730693579>EVE has 24 years of leveling. You can't be as good as everybody else in something like production without a lot of training.That's false. You can level to an acceptable point in a few weeks or a month, and also you can use money either IRL or in game to catch up. Also, there is a cost balance, where cheaper stuff can actually be superior since it's not as big of a deal to lose and can be risked more.
>>730693705>No trinity.>6 abilities.
>>7306937515%-10% can be the difference between being profitable. Though, activities usually have multiple skills.
>>730693127>Make sandbox servers where repairs cost materials.Not just cost materials, the best repair should be done by people with tradeskills and even then it should cap at 90 or 95% so eventually the item gets destroyed. Trade skills are always useless in MMO because the best gear is looted from boss fights. Also any MMO worth its salt should have PvP and land control so the playerbase can bash their heads against each other for content indefinitely like EVE Online once did back in the 2ks.Ultimately discussion about this is pointless since the MMO genre is defunct just like the RTS genre.
>>730693938That's with competitive market acitivities. You can go out and mine with the starter ship and make pennies, or go out in PvP and hunt other players. A ship made for minining won't be able to do much against a ship designed to hunt miners. Game has a huge rock paper scissors aspect to it.
>>730693987Finding people to repair would take too much time and would leave raiders having a lot of downtime sometimes.I don't hate the 95% idea, but I do want to say that it's not necessary to have a good economy.
>>730694052Yeah, people don't want to just mine and PvP.
>>730694242Then what the fuck does "You can't be as good as everybody else in something like production without a lot of training." mean if it isn't PvP?
>>730694052>Pennies.Like everything but WHs makes this. They need to standardize for minimum wage.Also, let people cash out. People would come in droves if they didn't have to level.
>>730692442We don't. They are a waste of time.
>>730694180>Finding people to repair would take too much time and would leave raiders having a lot of downtime sometimes.Nope, in Everquest people would spend all day just chilling in in the East Commonlands Tunnel or towns casting Clarity/Clarity II/ KEI for pay. When you give people a chance to ply a trade they'll do it vigorously to make money and a lot of players get bored of the monster killing grind.
>>730694337Production is making ships and modules. It's not just production with large benefits from skills though.
>>730694608They would have to have the materials. You might as well just let players autobuy from the auction house, perhaps to repair them themselves.
>>730693768Group content isn't possible without a healer and a tank. League of Legends has 4 abilities and players spend thousands of hours playing the same character. Albion is a PvP MMO. Less is more.
>>730694830>You might as well just let players autobuy from the auction house, perhaps to repair them themselves.Anti-Social trash and why the MMO genre failed. Always mandate people talk and interact with other players to resolve issues.
>>730695383MMOs are for autists, not for ERPing trannies
>>730694242you can be on equal ground as any explorer within weeks provided you're not completely retarded and can learn to move properly
>>730692442Monsters and Memoriespvp though, pve will be carebear land (no lifer elf court)
>>730695471Lucrative exploration nodes require mostly, if not, full skills.
>>730693579This is an MMO thread. No one cares about that dead AI run hotbox P2W garbage.
>>730695591not really unless you're doing sleeper sigs, you can still be exceptionally profitable doing WH day trips and knowing which sigs you can actually hit. You can very easily and quickly work into a t3c and refit for sleeper sigs, especially because if you know what you're doing you'll be making so much you can just inject your skills. I primarily did exploration both for profit and to scout for my WH corp for the 10 years I played the game, I'm well aware of the cost of getting a new account up and running and based on your response you're absolutely not
>>730693987All those cool ideas have been tried before and they always result in bots, mandatory alts, cartels and alliances outside of the game.
>>730692442>Level scaling in any capacityI will not play your game>Transmog in any capacityI will not play your game>Focus on PvPI will not play your game>Anything besides clear-cut class leveling that starts at level 1 and does not changeI will not play your game>Weeaboo aestheticsI will not play your game>Anything besides sword and sorcery fantasyI will not play your game>Every playable race is humanI will not play your game>Dungeon finderI will not play your game>Cash shop in any capacityI will not play your game That's literally it. Just remake original WoW not owned by Shittard. That's 100% of what people want. The fact that zero companies since 2004 have realized this is baffling.
>>730694608and everyone but you had alts for that.
>>730692442Why do we treat MMOs as if they're supposed to be these divine games with maximum player retention?You can't fix it, nobody wants to play one game forever, even the most diehard WoW cucks can't justify it.
>>730696017autism
Darkfall Rise of Agon is coming back. It has been a cluster in all iterations but still holds some of the best pvp raids ever.
>>730692442>ever subbed to WoWcounting or not counting chinese net cafes?
>>730696037Real MMOs have never been tried before.
You made this shit thread already.Swallow 12 gauge
>>730693127That's VRising.
>>730693127>>730693987Albion online, Anvil online. Stupid retards.
>>730695885I've done non-sleeper sites. Health and attack values are huge.EVE obviously has retention problems. It is probably SP (everyone wants to play the full game; the sandbox is why people come).
>>730696017Classic didn't do that well from a characters reaching max perspective, probably much less multiple classes. Approximately nobody wants to quest and grind mobs all day.
>>730692442ban women and non whites
>>730696037Everybody wants to play approximately 1 game all day, every day. MMOs have high amounts of characters (lots of socialization potential, or meaning in doing well competitively) and a persistent world (status to log back into).
>>730696162Maybe either. I definitely don't think they're at more than 1% even without cafe logins.
>>730696352my man I'm talking about exploration, if you're ratting then no shit you need skills to back it up. It's okay to just learn something new or be wrong about something, there is literally nothing bad about that. You can just say "oh cool didn't realize it was that fast" and be done with it. I agree with you 100% if you're doing basically anything else in the game there is a huge skill slog to get reasonably profitable, but by an exceedingly large margin the cheapest and fastest route to profit for any non-retard is non-combat exploration, and literally the ONLY difference between someone relatively new (few weeks to few months) and a fully maxed vet is a bit of quality of life and safety on time spent on grid. Everything else comes down to knowledge and execution.
>>730696664I was talking about virus nodes.
>>730696472Classic is a 20 year old solved game with no updates. Original WoW was a force of nature. False comparison.
>>730696729did you actually play eve? relic and data sites are free money and what new players should be doing. there are pirate versions of these in WH, drone sites which are safe provided you don't fail but generally not recommended for new players, ghost sites which are timed and highly profitable albeit risky for unexperienced players, and sleeper sites for rating.based on your response of virus nodes, I'm assuming you're talking about any form of relic or data site where you play the hacking minigame, which happens to be exactly what I was talking about as well. Just remember that eve has been out since 2003 and there are many people online and even on 4chan that have literal decades of experience with it.
>>730696901Classic was literally just vanilla with phasing. It's not a false comparison. If people wanted to quest and grind mobs all day, they would do it on Classic; but only 10% of lvl 10 characters made it to max.
>>730692442do away with stat check based combat where a high level player or a player in "endgame" gear automatically wins vs players lower level in lesser gear no matter the skill difference.
>>730696950>Could take hours to find a site (requires moderate scanning skills).I don't think a few dozen million an hour is enough for a new player to afford PvP *and* PLEX. Most everything with moderate skills pays literal pennies. People end up just wanting to PLEX, and it kills motivation.
>>730695935>>730696023This happens when the game is on the decline and the playerbase cannot support itself any longer. The people with buff bots and trade alts were always the most zealous poopsockers who should have been isolated and destroyed before their mentality destroyed the community. By the time the alts/buffbot stuff comes into play the poopsocker isn't even having fun any longer, which is proof they should have been prevented from doing the bot strategy.
>>730697112>If people wanted to quest and grind mobs all day, they would do it on Classicfun fact: blizzard literally nerfed mob grinding, esepically beast farming, to combat botters instead of just banning the bots. Gold sellers had more sophisticated methods of gold farming like doing cheese righteous orb farms or aoe farming lvl 50+ dungeons anyways. classic is a shitshow and private servers were better. nsot was better. fuck it even kronos was better than classic. we thought we did but we didnt want blizzard touching that shit.
>>730697112What part of "solved game" are you failing to understand? The Content is great. It was consumed. 18 years ago. It is no longer fresh. But when it was released, it was God's gift to gaming. Even *despite* this people came out in record numbers to play classic on release.
>>730697363>Questing and grinding mobs is solved content.Then you don't want vanilla.
Same thread today, too? Anyway, the only MMOs worth playing (and trust me I've played a lot) are RuneScape 3 ironman and OSRS. If Blizzard makes Classic+ a thing, that will be worth it.B-But why are MMOs not worth it? Because most of them are outdated garbage.
>>730697691>Same thread today, too?I don't think I've posted it in a few days.
>>730697479No, I don't? You seem to be thinking that what I asked for is to walk through Stormwind and Orgrimmar again. What I asked for was a game that plays exactly like original WoW, but is new. New areas, new quests, new races, new classes. If that's what classic WoW was, people would be playing it. This is not complicated.
Everything is solved nowdays, on release you have 20 guides and addons telling you everything you have to do on every aspect of the new content.
>>730697913Wildstar?
>>730696017Based on all fronts.
>>730697764You posted it yesterday. And the day before. And the day before.
>>730698453Wildstar was decent, and I played it, and had an okay time. It veered too much into sci-fi for me and was also tonally inconsistent. Too much meme humor and cartoon animation in a world trying to present itself legitimately. These are the reasons it failed. Felt closer to Jak and Daxter than high fantasy.
>>730693579EVE is also a dead bot infested shitgame
>>730692442Why fix them? Just let them die and let other GAAS genres take over. They don't offer anything anymore.
>>730698709I still think leveling is a huge filter. Like 70% of WoW players stop before level 10.
>>730699284Because amounts of players in a world vastly varies momentary experience.Because lobbies are surpassed by persistent worlds.
>>730692574and that's why old school runescape is winning
How much shit do you EVE niggas have?
>>730692442MMOs worked because they harnessed addiction neurology combined with peer pressure. Smartphones killed the PC monthly subscription game market because there is too much money in mobile games. The F2P + lootbox gambling mechanic is too profitable for any developers to ever go back to the Everquest/WoW model.
>>730692665I can't think of any way a datamined game is worse than not. Do you have any examples?
>>730699617I think the disconnect here is that you're looking at data for a 20 year old reheated meal. The data for original WoW was vastly different.You also have to remember that not all characters are designed for leveling even with active players. Some are bank or farming alts. I believe WoW allowed for skill leveling on non-leveled characters but I could be wrong. *Especially* in a 20 year old game though, a huge proportion of accounts are just afk Chinese gold farmers.If you want a better example of a game that was "WoW but good", that was Rift. Rift on release was FUCKING based. Everything I'm asking for and more. A genuinely unique talent system that was fresh and innovative but not goofy. The problem there was mismanagement. The company sold out and added a cash shop, fired its art department, and made a whole slew of other retarded decisions. But for a time, it was good.
>>730699617Because classic leveling fucking sucks in all Everquest clones.Runescape should be the model for leveling, for having worthwhile content at any level and every stage of the game. Instead of trying to speedrun players to end-game (even though modern OSRS is now suffering from this with XP gain bloat)
There won't be another massive MMO success without a huge technological leap in terms of systems and gameplay.An mmo with a good artstyle and gameplay could achieve mild success. But almost everyone goes for a cartoony style to mask the lack of graphical fidelity, or is just repetitive gameplay loops that bores users after a month.
>>730700809Just make a sandbox.
>>730700809I think chasing grandiosity is a huge reason why most are actually failing, because the novelty is no longer there, and focus tends to spread too thin.If a AA one released with incredible focus and new gameplay frameworks (not copying WoW or conventional MMOs), it'd do incredibly well.
>>730693450>>730693579Eve is shit.
>>730701252I think so, too, but I think it's really design specific. New World had 900k concurrent but halved that every 2 months afterward. It's main problems were leveling and linear ilvl pushing.
>>730701262It's really fun. I just don't like SP. It's 3D Diablo.
I just wanna say Gummy can go fuck himself I know you're here bedboy.
>>730699284 That’s the dumbest take I’ve seen this thread and that’s saying something. MMOs aren’t dead, they’re just in the hands of suits who want launch day whales and dead games in 6 months. You fix MMOs by letting players shape the world again. Less rails, more freedom. Housing, faction wars, world PvP, real crafting. The genre thrived when it was about immersion and community, not DPS meters and pushing season passes.
