>Questing and grinding mobs for dozens of hours to raid-log.How do we fix MMOs?
>>730759664you can'tthe magic is gone because you didn't gatekeep the internet and technology as a whole, 99% of the people on this site don't belong here, 95% of people on mmos don't belong there80% of people in gaming as a whole don't belong there
mmos are dead and world of trooncraft killed themsee you tomorrow when you make the same fucking thread for the nth time
>>730759664you can'tbut i'm sure the guy who uses AI to talk in this thread will be here soon. something about repair materials
>>730759664we already have an MMO thread >>730744443
>>730759664Already solved by OSRS
>>730759664By posting this same exact thread a million more times
>>730759743>obsessed with culture warsyou're just as bad as they are t. >>730759738
>>730759821>brown + poor people simulator
>>730759743>>730759824How come you never complain in the copy paste off-topic bait threads or gachashit gooner threads
>>730759872yeah i'm sure it's only a coincidence that wow went to shit when they started making a big deal and parading their queer workers like zoo animals and now they put out hot garbage like this
>>730759664>How do we fix MMOs?do what Dreadmyst just did, make it Open Source.
>>730759664That's a WoW problem, not a MMO problem.
>>730759957kek what the fuck is this shit
>>730759945You don't know what I do boy
>>730759957wow went to shit in wrath almost 15 years ago
>>730759664retard who only played world of warcraft, playing a world of warcraft clone "why is every game about leveling and then raiding?"play a real fucking MMO maybe?
>>730760029Correct. I know what you don't do.
>>730760052real MMOs suck ass
>>730759978Every MMO after WoW copied WoW in grueling detail though
>>730760179Wrong
>>730760342>everynot really
>>730760342yeah because retarded suits who don't play videogames saw wow pulling big numbers and thought to copy it 1:1turns out they all flop, except for XIV. what do both warcraft and finofano have in common? the IP doing all the heavy lifting all along.>>730760336then stay in world of casualcraft
>>730760445oh you're a hardcore gamer? that's sick dude
>>730759738>>730759743>>730759770MMO is the best genre because of amounts of players and a persistent world. All you have to do is make it a sandbox. Remove leveling. Allow all gear to be traded. Make repairs cost materials.
>Questing and grinding mobs for dozens of hours to raid-log.>How do we fix MMOs?Everyone wants to level up ASAP because higher levels have all the power, nothing you do at low level is worth because low level materials are next to worthless, low level gear is useless. So the "real game" is at max level. The inherent problem here is the power disparity between high and low level and the linear power progression of crafting where late game recipes and mats trivialize the rest of the game.If more of the game actually mattered then people would be less inclined to rush through it and raid log. You could do this by making the stat increases have less power creep and move away from stat check based gameplay, move player progression away from power creep of stats into something else, make low level mats worth it at endgame.>but then higher level players would farm low level contentand this is bad in a stat check based game where high levels 1 shot everything but in a game without insane power creep what this would mean is you have high levels and low levels playing together and higher levels would not trivialize the content the way they do in games like wow. even in wow, imagine how much harder a high level character would have running a low level dungeon if dungeon mobs didnt have inherent miss chance of like 80% due to level differences.Once you got the power creep thing out of the way and figured out how to keep progression relevant in the game then you just make content that is not raid content and make it so raids dont have the best of all the rewards like they do in WoW where al lthe best gear comes from raiding, all the best mats from raiding.
>>730760764all those players are in their discord clique and you're not invitedthe worthwhile materials/gear to grind are hoarded by the server mafiashut up chatgpt your idea is retarded and designed in fantasyland
>>730760791>Leveling.>Ever.Why? It's just an arbitrary number. Just do it with items so the differences in power are always relevant and can always happen.
>>730760943devilsaur leather bros...
>>730760943>all those players are in their discord clique and you're not invitedMore power to community.>the worthwhile materials/gear to grind are hoarded by the server mafiaThat just means they have more money than you. If they push too high, undercut them. If somebody undercuts them, buy low and sell high.>shut up chatgpt your idea is retarded and designed in fantasylandNot an argument.
>>730761305>>Leveling.>Ever.>Why?feats, perks, talents. Easy and natural source of progression.again your problem that i tell you about every time you make this thread is that you have a problem with the power disparity of high and low level. Your solution is to throw the baby out with the bath water like devs are want to do anytime they encounter a thing that is not perfect. You dont need to throw it all out and remake the wheel entirely every time you find something you dont like, sometimes you just need to tweak it.
Same thread again today?Anyway, the best MMOs are RuneScape 3 and OSRS. Trust me, I have played a lot. They are ALLLLL the same shit. WoW had the potential to be good but Blizzard is trash. Is Guild Wars 2 good? Yeah, 10 years ago.MMOs aren't good because companies have no incentive to make them good. Paypiggies will pay for anything.
>>730759664ESO, GW2 and FFXIV already solved the raid logging issue.Try playing something else than just wowslop.
>level to 60>grind like half preraid BIS>drop the game after a couple raidsI've done it multiple times by now and its the proper way to play classic
>>730759664By realizing that MMOs cater to two groups, people that are obsessed with grinding for small rewards and people that play it to interact with others and then realizing that the latter group will inevitably move on to other games.Basically, for them to stop pretending and realizing that MMOs are only meant to appeal to people that want to grind and not even trying to draw in a wider audience.It's like if the FPS genre suddenly decided all of their games needed deckbuilding mechanics.
>>730761685>leveling to 60you already ruined classic for yourself
>>730761716I said leveling, not powerlevelingI do a quest run for every leveling dungeon and play bgs if my class doesn't suck dick in pvp
>>730761614I have a problem with it being linear. You can't delevel. With gear, everything matters all the time.
>>730759664Personal loot is a big one. Fuck your SR/HR. I'm not filling out a table with what gibs I want. Remove the gay as Bind on Pickup. Remove all skin colors for humans besides white and tan. Remove body type 1/2. Give raids an option to be solo. Remove trannymogging. Remove all mounts, especially flying. Bump rating up to M from PG. Remove gay crusty centaur and wheelchair mages. Permit free server hopping. Ban foreigners from regions other than their own. Ban fat women from playing. Ban fat men from playing. Make a separate game for PvPniggers. Add more than two slots for rings.
How did the French manage to make the best MMORPG of 2026?
>>730762563Forgot image.
>>730759821>solo grinding while surrounded by 3rd worlder botsuhh nice mmo lmao
you fix the raidlog problem by not having every aspect of the game design push you towards raidloggingseems simple enough but blizzard can't seem to figure it out
>>730762734WoW hasn't been a raidlogging game since Legion you stupid niggerESPECIALLY in Legion and BFA raidlogging was impossible
>>730762563https://arch.b4k.dev/v/search/image/lISjG-TBkqtwaFOk47swvQ/You getting paid for this?
>wow has fallen
>>730762783
>>730763059what the fuck hahaha
>>730761614People don't want to do dozens to hundreds of hours of questing and mob grinding. Gear being a repeatable activity is just the icing.
>>730762621Based, it has a shitty company and is full of bugs and yet it's still the best MMORPG ever somehow
>>730763281>>730762089>I have a problem with it being linear.cool so just dont make it linear and dont make it an entirely stat check type game>People don't want to do dozens to hundreds of hours of questing and mob grindingthen play a moba
>>730763517>Don't make leveling linear?What?>Then play a MOBA.Thread reward for literally not an argument. WoW PvP is vastly better. See trinity and amount of abilities (variety:depth).PS: The statistics prove that people don't want to level.https://www.vg247.com/only-30-of-new-wow-players-continue-after-level-10-says-blizzard.
>>730763126skill issue
>>730760342BDO didnt and its still dogshit lol
Fight me.
>>730764076noi've played the zergfest that is GW2 and i have no problem admitting the trinity is the lesser evil
>>730764076 based triangle enjoyer you will NEVER convince me that "everyone can do everything" makes fights more interesting-it's just chaos with extra steps. I want my tank to tank, my healer to heal, and my DPS to be half-brain afk pressing combust.
>>730763782>WoW PvP is vastly better.wow pvp turns to complete shit when one player has a 4 level advantage because of the inherent miss/resist cahnce with level disparities.>i have a problem with leveling being linear>i like gear upgrades though!is gear not linear? how would you do gear without it being linear and make power disparity in PvP? why could you not do something similar with levelling?
>>730764679>leveling pvpcome on now retard
>>730764076but it's perfect
>>730764679>wow pvp turns to complete shit when one player has a 4 level advantage because of the inherent miss/resist cahnce with level disparities.I was talking about max level BGs (where you have all your abilities).>is gear not linear?Not if you allow all gear to be traded. What you would use is defined by material repairs governing what you can afford.
>>730764076>>730764150>>730764391>>730764679Dofus doesn't have a trinity and it's undisputedly better.
>>730765571I haven't played Dofus, so I can't argue from that perspective, but turn-based < real-time, so it automatically wins.
>>730767302So, real-time automatically wins*.
>>730759664We have reached the peak of what a traditional, holy trinity mmo can be a long time ago. It's wow.The next big thing has to have VR support, or something truly revolutionary. Nobody will line up to kill 20 boars yet again just because the boar is now purple
>>730759738This is one of the cutest girls I've ever seen. Does she play WoW??
>>730767675that's me and no not anymore
>>730767858
>>730767992i also look like that
/v/, what do you think the point of singularity is for making a good MMO? Some anon making one? The board making one? Talking to CEOs about the state of the industry?What exactly is the minimum definition of a good MMO for you?
>>730768264
>>730759664>>Questing and grinding mobs for dozens of hours to raid-log.>How do we fix MMOs?You don't. They're dead. The high IQ pivot is turning irl financial markets into your MMO. You'd be surprised how many transferable skills you have there, thanks to no-lifeing MMOs for years. Grind in trading/investing like you would in WoW, only you'll have something to show for it this time.
>>730768334WoW is so cute. Except for stupid things like people still being poor when magic exists, the atmosphere is really good.
>>730768532It's very comfy and pleasing to the eye, can't really explain it
>>730764679You’re talking to a guy that uses AI to talk about this. Just ignore him.
MMOs with hot furry women in them?
>>730768532WoD leveling was so good. All the zones were fun.
Thinking im gonna resub and play TBC again on anniversary bros
>>730768782
>>730762640This is why I can't get into OSRS these days, it feels like a singleplayer game when I wanted an MMOIt's realizing the appeal of runescape back in the day was that it was a chat room with a game attached
>>730768914
>>730768782I want to like Pandaria as much because of the class fantasy being so good, but I don't think it has anywhere near the diversity.
>>730768968Nagrand.. home..
>>730768743Tied for the threadly Not an Argument Award.
>>730769127>>730768968
>>730764679Also, here:"What's the deal with leveling? Even if you only have a 20% stat difference between 1 and max, that's still a hugely demotivational difference, not to mention however long it takes to level, which can be dozens or hundreds of hours of questing and grinding mobs. It's better to just do ilvl differences through equipment, right, because it's not linear and can be repeated?"https://chatgpt.com/s/t_6966f13efd00819196b1866a7075aab2.I don't particularly disagree with large stat differences, but linear leveling needs to go. Players will connect more with gear, and you won't lose 70% of your players to onboarding.
I just want ARK with an auction house.>Dozens of items to diversify economy and combat.>Hundreds of mounts that differentiate play.>Premade and player made beverages and foods.>Tek to vastly increase efficiency, mobility, and combat power, including saddles.>A really good economy: There is only 1 metal, but it's used so much that it's always relevant, plus all the other items you need.>Basebuilding. Literally, Minecraft: Buildings and Defenses.>Really fun instances missions (like Wave Ray 64) and bosses.
>>730769941>instancesInstanced*.
>raid logging is BAD>you need to be coerced to log in every day and do your chores or the game is bad!>the game needs to be never-ending and impossible to complete! stay subbed FOREVERshalom
>>730768958Most early MMOs were like that. The actual gameplay was very simplistic and the majority of the appeal was "living online world where you can chat in real time with other people".
>>730770053An everybody game would have a large percentage of players logging in every day because the world changes, to re-up auction house items, to do WPvE for drops or currency, to gather, craft, and trade, and to check up on guildies. Making an MMO a living world is easy to do. Just make everything matter.
>>730759664There's nothing to fix. MMO raids are the greatest gameplay experience that exists and ever will exist. Also as long as you put mounts and mogs in open world content, i will do it.
>>730770267New World was so close to being a really good MMO.
OP is a spambot by the way
>>730770448>Varied content.Why are you drinking Hatorade?
Classic Maplestory will save MMOs! WoWTrannies need not reply, we know your taste is shit.
>>730770448No he's just severely autistic.
Post your attempt at the threadly Not an Argument Award. The competition is getting intense.I'm joking; argue your opinion the best you can. There're plenty of topics.
>>730768782Did anybody else play WoD on launch?Garrisons were so cool and in such a cool zone.Redesigning professions and adding missions were stupid, though.
>>730770731Classic MapleStory died for a reason.
>>730759664I wish you could still raid log now its quest for five minutes, hit max and then spend hours a day running mythics, fuck whatever nigger ruined the old gearing track
>>730759971I grabbed it and you can't even compile it, it's missing things and has zero assets
Which MMO has the best ERPers?
>>730770404Playing New World at launch was so fun. I was in the guild that bought the first chunk of land. The chat was crazy with people campaigning to be the person to get the 50k gold to buy the town.I loved the life skills and isolated inventories and generally everything about the game.It simply did not have enough variety in the questing and enemies. I think they thought people wanted pvp, but barely anyone gave a shit about pvp in a runescape clone.
>>730772818Goldshire
>>730773006>I think they thought people wanted pvpIs there a single pvp focues MMO that has done well? the last couple of years every single one I came across failed, like Pax Dei or Ashes of Creation.
>>730773006It just needed a sink for gear, like durability that required materials. Nobody wanted to get into crafting, and it was linear ilvl pushing anyway. The studio needed to get people into gathering, crafting, and trading. They're the what to do in an RPG besides combat.
>>730765120>I was talking about max level BGs (where you have all your abilities).still bad because of the disparity in gear quality. if you dont have good gear you may as well just afk farm until you get it. healers in good gear can quite literally ignore DPS in shit gear entirely because a hot will out heal their dps.>PS: The statistics prove that people don't want to level.>https://www.vg247.com/only-30-of-new-wow-players-continue-after-level-10-says-blizzard.you are a low iq nigger. that article is about trial accounts, not all new players. Trial accounts are accounts where you play for free up to like level 20. Obviously you have people that are going to try the game to see what it is about but are not actually interested in it long term. It is practically meaningless data.
>>730773226It's not as if they had a lot of incentive to PvP. Taking over zones was pretty successful, though, I think.>>730773289I think leveling was a problem. I doubt a large percentage made it to 60. I would love to hear some official statistics.
>>730773226pvp MMOs will always be niche because pve babies refuse to pvp and wont play a pvp focused game, where as PvP players are usually willing to accept they have to do some pve in the game to get to a point they can pvp. So the logical design is to focus on pve and have some added optional pvp to please everyone.There are pvp mmos that are "successful" in terms of pleaseing pvp players and having a niche community but there are no pvp mmos that get to a scale near that of wow because there is quite literally 0 middle ground for pve players to experience a pvp game where they will find the pvp bearable.
>>730773407>still bad because of the disparity in gear quality.It's fine. I don't know that I would do it, but it's high incentive to get better equipment, and it rarely determines games because group play is more important.>that article is about trial accounts, not all new playersThey're players. 30% to 10 is abysmal. 50% of 10s make it to 25, and that's not just trial players. 15% retention to 25 is not good, trial or not.
>>730773712They should just make separate PvE and PvP (forced flagged) servers.
>>730759664Classic is about the journey. I spent a month last year getting to 60 and yes I do raid log now. If you are actually investing in a character once you get to the point you can raid there isn't much desire to go back and do it again.
>>730773815I agree that the best thing to do is have PvE and PvP servers. I really dont think there is a middle ground between that which could please both audiences and i think its foolish of ashes of creation devs to try.
>try turtle >it's overpopulated >try anniversary>it's overpopulated-_-
>>730773904That's a huge problem with design. People should want to log in every day, and you only have to give them variety that affects the world.
>Questing and grinding mobs for dozens of hours to raid-log.This wasn't an issue until games went from 2-3 buttons to ten button e-sport simulators.>game has 2-3 buttons>join a group to grind for hours>grinding slowly make character more powerful>only pushing 2-3 buttons so can communicate with my party members>we shoot the shit for a few hours and get to know each other>make new friendsvery much like pic related
>>730772560anon, stop lying. the zip has literally everything, sure its in a .cpp + .h files but it's still all there.
>>730774072it takes a normal person 2-3 months to hit 60, another 1-3 months to gear up and attune for raids. Not even counting how much you need gold, BoE items, enchants, epic mounts, all kinds of potions and of course repairs and respecs. PvP was secretly a 16 hour a day grind to be #1. There was plenty to do. It's a simple trade off. If you make leveling meaningful people aren't going to want to do it over and over again. Or if they do it will take years. Expansions continually increasing the level cap doesn't help that.
>>730771769Gook greed
>>730774473I still think leveling should be removed. People don't want glorified tutorials for however long.I think the way early WoW handled things was too grindy, but at least it had an economy where leveling mats and items still mattered.
>>730774072>People should want to log in every dayNo. Kill yourself. This philosophy is what lead to the downfall.
>>730774349where's the logger that's referenced in the code, am I expected to stub it? did you build it yourself yet? as I'm working on doing that right now
>>730775117A living world is easy to make and enjoy. Quality is objective.
>>730775023WoW is a very special game, and I wouldn't change anything about it. I'm shocked they never tried releasing an Arena server without leveling.
>>730764076The Trinity is fine and if anything needs to be a Quadrinity with a dedicated support/mezzer role.
>>730775256I would add material repairs, either to the base game, or to dedicated sandbox servers.
>>730775452Imagine WoW but you add Valheim's mechanics and tune everything to single player difficulty.
>>730759664that IS the magicif you skipped the grinding and questing and gearing and gold farming there is nothing of substance left and the game is pointless. this is why retail is fucking dogshit, they hand you free shit and you level up in like 4 hours and there's endless catchup mechanicsfeeltheweight
>>730775203"People should log in every day" led to daily quests, which led to timegating, which indirectly led to the seasonal model in games, all of which are cancer. You are mentally ill. What you want leads to games being a collection of checkboxes.
People should want to log in because the game world is immersive, the community is good and the combat is serviceable.
>>730775781>gearing and gold farmingThose are fine. You're describing a game world. Forced questing and mob grinding isn't that.
>>730777189so you just want to be max level immediately?
>>730759738What's her name? She's a cutie pie! :3
>>730776043https://chatgpt.com/s/t_6967166444688191877bd7b7e043749b.
>>730777249All classes, and I think all professions.
>>730759664You remove the raiding and focus on the comfy grinding and stamp collecting.>b-but I wanna be speshul and have people think my no-life gear is coolReal life currency shop
>>730777508Raiding is fun.
>>730777715Plus, competitive community is good. It's not just world firsts; parses are fun.I could understand if your criticism was it being instanced, but I still think that has a place.
>>730770404>>730773006I know New World wasn't really good enough to sustain 900k concurrent, but why does it only have 2k?
>>730780310Because they aren't gonna be developing the game anymore and it's getting shutdown this year?
>>730775121 If you’re referring to the “Logger” class in the utilities folder, yeah it’s referenced but doesn’t exist in the repo yet. I stubbed it locally just to get things compiling-just threw in a quick wrapper around console.log with levels. If you’re building it now, maybe drop it in utils/logger.js? We can replace mine once yours is in. Let me know if you want me to PR the stub in the meantime.
>>730781801Go for it Claude
>>730771480Garrisons were fun until I hit max level and then I lost interest. Unsubbed and never went back.
>>730759664ai, unironicallyslop quests with slop dungeons and raids and overworld slopyou can't datamine slop
>>730782442Honestly, you're right letting an AI decide how a game functions while devs fine tune things would revive mmorpgs. Give more class chose options for every player returning the rpg aspect to mmos because modern mmos abandon their rpg roots. Datamining killed mmorpgs because everyone is already going on the perfect path to get to the endgame instead of enjoying the journey.
>>730764076They should split up the party and force them to go through parts of a raid solo. If they are too overspecialized in one thing, it's gg.
>>730773712*pvp babies refuse to play a pvp focused game because then they can't gank lowbies and unprepared playersfixed that for you
>>730781367It's been like that, though.
>>730782538>Datamining killed mmorpgs because everyone is already going on the perfect path to get to the endgame instead of enjoying the journey.Do you have an example?
>>730782809Why?
>>730783009You should stop posting that. If PvP is fun enough, people will do it.
>>730783332To punish overspecialization and minmaxxing.
Anyone gonna check out Apogea in a few days?
>>730783553For what purpose?
>>730783375it can never be more fun in a game designed for pve and pve is redundant in pvp centric games which pvefags would never touch anyway
>>730784293>it can never be more fun in a game designed for pveSo, don't just design for PvE.>pve is redundant in pvp centric gamesIt's not. PvE would be the primary way to obtain items.
>>730772818Black desert used to have some pretty great erp but then the game turned to shit and they all left.
>>730776043That's like saying the invention of medicine lead to the spic nig cycle therefore medicine bad. You are swinging at phantoms of people you had an argument with somewhere not in this thread.
Fake MMO single player games > real MMOs
>>730783302NTA but black desert is a good example of datamining pretty much fucking up the future development of new gear
>>730784763Meaning?
>>730759664by killing every current mmo fan
>>730785035>No True MMO Fan.Gross.
woo woo woo
>>7307596641) Ignore debtcattle whose hobby isn't ganing, but consumption.2) Design the game around PvPvE, whereby the emphasis is on PvP and thebPvE component 80% is logistics, crafting and player driven economy (copy contract systems from EVE).3) Avoid frictionless design and lean into omconvenience and hardship to cultivate a proper player community and social interaction; use map design to incentivize player congegration.4) Implement merit-based forums: do not grant access to discussions of balance and general design to locausts and shitters.5) Implement opt-in chatsystems and player created/curated chat channels, only moderate public channels and severely punish anyone who does not exhaust the tools at his disposal (leaving/avoiding channels, ignore, blocking, etc.) before filing a report.6) Provide proper ingame communications beyond basic chat (customizable TTS/soundboard on skill activation etc., chatlogging, pinging, marking, voice communications) to combat dependencies and the formation of shadow communities on third-party platforms.
>>730786585>inconvenience*Pardon the sloppy writinh.
>>730786585Bottom two aren't bad ideas at all
